View Full Version : Bush = that guy with a pointy beard...
Type941
03-25-06, 01:13 PM
Marx believed socialism will come to all people naturally. Lenin thought it needed a 'push'.
Others believed that Democracy comes naturally to societies.
GW Bush thinks it needs the 'push'. Is Bush the new Lenin?
Read this from FT recently by a quite famous professor in the US, but can't find the article, as it was online, about 1 week ago. I just thought the parallels are very simple and quite striking.
There's some political similarities, but I think that's doing a bit of a dis-service to Lenin :P Lenin was by far the smarter political figure, and I personally think that if the USSR was built by his design (and not by Stalin), the whole thing would have lasted much longer.
Otherwise, I don't think Bush is the first one to come up with this, either. Hell, they've been doing those 'pushes' in various ways from the beginning of the Cold War!
Funny I heard a similar comparison but Bush=Trotsky by two friends from different places in the Eastern Bloc. "World Revolution" :roll:
scandium
03-25-06, 02:08 PM
Seems to me there are two big problems with American forced democracy:
1. It is being pushed into countries completely dissimilar from the Western countries that all share a European heritage (being either European or colonized by the peoples of Europe). Therefore why democracy should even take hold there, let alone be a mirror image of our own, is a mystery to everyone outside of Bush and his fanatical supporters.
2. The premise that democracy can be forced at gunpoint.
By the way, not that you're equating them, but Marxist socialism and Soviet communism are not one and the same. That association has led to "Marxist" becoming a bit of a slur in the Western world when Marx never envisioned, nor championed, anything resembling Stalin's USSR.
Type941
03-25-06, 03:18 PM
exactly I'm not equating them, quite the opposite as you see in my post, i state them as different.
but i just don't think Financial Times article and 2 people from eastern bloc are quite the same in depth of opinion and research went to back it up. ;)
However, we do have new colonies now of US. They are called Georgia, Ukraine, Iraq, South Korea, and some other places. So if your colony theory is valid, in 30-50 years they'll become independent from US and be 'really' free. Us is trying to colonize all former soviet republics now, and they seem to be willing to split the countries, and let people die inside them in order to achieve their 'national interests' (*spit*).
You guys sound retarded....you really believe all your own illusions of the US's diabolical plots....
You guys will be probably happy to hear I resign from this forum of America haters and haters in general....you guys are too depressing...you could drive a person to suicide with all the negative Bull**** that spews from your mouths....Amazes me to see people from all over the world visit a web site created by a Texan, who lives in America, and talk about nothing but how America sucks in one way or another....Enjoy Your Fantasy.
Just for Iceman :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Kapitan
03-26-06, 07:24 AM
But we cant loose iceman we cant we cant :(
Type941
03-26-06, 07:51 AM
You guys sound retarded....you really believe all your own illusions of the US's diabolical plots....
You guys will be probably happy to hear I resign from this forum of America haters and haters in general....you guys are too depressing...you could drive a person to suicide with all the negative b.s. that spews from your mouths....Amazes me to see people from all over the world visit a web site created by a Texan, who lives in America, and talk about nothing but how America sucks in one way or another....Enjoy Your Fantasy.
Ah, nothing like denial. Just for you Icy. :D :D :D :D :D
On serious note, I have no ilusions at all about the true aims of the USA elite. Divide and conquer. And the fact that Bush uses democracy to forcefully overthrow governments that speak out against him is a pure Fact. And calling us retarded for saying that is only proving we are wrong, you have ain't got a comeback. Chill, Ice.
The Avon Lady
03-26-06, 07:59 AM
What you Europeans smokin'? :hmm:
Type941
03-26-06, 08:11 AM
What you Europeans smokin'? :hmm:
Article in FT I'm referring to was written in the US, by an american. :know:
Kapitan
03-26-06, 08:12 AM
What ever they are smoking i want some
Type941
03-26-06, 08:17 AM
What ever they are smoking i want some
But you're the dealer!!!!
:rotfl:
The Avon Lady
03-26-06, 08:34 AM
What you Europeans smokin'? :hmm:
Article in FT I'm referring to was written in the US, by an american. :know:
Link?
Not to worry. I'm quite familiar with the plenty of my fellow citizens on conspiracy highs.
scandium
03-26-06, 09:19 AM
You guys sound retarded....you really believe all your own illusions of the US's diabolical plots....
You guys will be probably happy to hear I resign from this forum of America haters and haters in general....you guys are too depressing...you could drive a person to suicide with all the negative b.s. that spews from your mouths....Amazes me to see people from all over the world visit a web site created by a Texan, who lives in America, and talk about nothing but how America sucks in one way or another....Enjoy Your Fantasy.
An invasion of Iraq for which the first blueprints were drawn up, and with the motivations laid out in secret energy meetings, almost from the day the current President took office and before 9/11; an invasion predicated on false intelligence, pointing to non-existant WMD, at least some of which was known to be forged (the Niger forgergy) but was still cited even after the forgery were discovered as though it were authentic; a subsequent pre-emptive invasion that discovers no WMD but leaves 2,000 American soldiers dead as well as upto 100,000 Iraqi civilians. A diabolical plot? Well it has at least many of the elements of one, doesn't it?
Kapitan
03-26-06, 09:37 AM
Not to mention other idiotic moves in the past, Somalia 1993 go after a war lord who controls 3/4 of the entire populace of a city who do they send in ? a handful of troops to fight a few million people.
And whats worse than that?
The didnt even inform The other UN parties in somalia of the move so when they needed help the other could do very little.
That is as dumb as it gets.
P.S i know some other dumb things the americans do like spending over a $1 billion on a pen that can write in space, what do the russians say ?
Use a pencil!
Takeda Shingen
03-26-06, 09:42 AM
P.S i know some other dumb things the americans do like spending over a $1 billion on a pen that can write in space, what do the russians say ?
Use a pencil!
Yeah, that Soviet space program was a model of fiscal efficiency.
The Avon Lady
03-26-06, 09:43 AM
There's so much balogna in your claims that it's preposterous. Again, let's learn by example (there are dozens here):
the Niger forgergy
Yada! Yada!
Read The big lie continues (http://www.transterrestrial.com/archives/006459.html#006459).
See also Eye on CBS (http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3873) for those of you that forgot this little escape (among others by See BS).
Snap out of it. Get real. Face the little facts that get in your way. Come to grips with reality. This isn't the fantasy trip against the US you thought it was. It's a sham.
The Avon Lady
03-26-06, 09:45 AM
P.S i know some other dumb things the americans do like spending over a $1 billion on a pen that can write in space, what do the russians say ?
Use a pencil!
Who's sorry now? (http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp).
TteFAboB
03-26-06, 10:10 AM
P.S i know some other dumb things the americans do like spending over a $1 billion on a pen that can write in space, what do the russians say ?
Use a pencil!
Who's sorry now? (http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp).
If these cheap Magic Pens (http://www.globalsources.com/manufacturers/Magic-Pen.html) can do magic, imagine what a 1 billion pen can do!
scandium
03-26-06, 10:58 AM
There's so much balogna in your claims that it's preposterous. Again, let's learn by example (there are dozens here):
the Niger forgergy
Yada! Yada!
Read The big lie continues (http://www.transterrestrial.com/archives/006459.html#006459).
Snap out of it. Get real. Face the little facts that get in your way. Come to grips with reality. This isn't the fantasy trip against the US you thought it was. It's a sham.
And your source for this ad hominem attack turns out to be a blog called Transterrestrial Musings? Whose primary sources include such authoritive sites as PowerLine (a right-wing blog) and the completely unrelated CBS incident? Okay. I'll face facts whenever you're ready to provide them (ones that actually address something I've written and are based on more mainstream sources than Transterrestrial Musings and right-wing blogs like PowerLine). :roll:
The Avon Lady
03-26-06, 11:31 AM
There's so much balogna in your claims that it's preposterous. Again, let's learn by example (there are dozens here):
the Niger forgergy
Yada! Yada!
Read The big lie continues (http://www.transterrestrial.com/archives/006459.html#006459).
Snap out of it. Get real. Face the little facts that get in your way. Come to grips with reality. This isn't the fantasy trip against the US you thought it was. It's a sham.
And your source for this ad hominem attack turns out to be a blog called Transterrestrial Musings? Whose primary sources include such authoritive sites as PowerLine (a right-wing blog) and the completely unrelated CBS incident? Okay. I'll face facts whenever you're ready to provide them (ones that actually address something I've written and are based on more mainstream sources than Transterrestrial Musings and right-wing blogs like PowerLine). :roll:
Both blogs quote and link to their sources.
Try again.
Takeda Shingen
03-26-06, 12:00 PM
Both blogs quote and link to their sources.
Try again.
I'll try. Scandium has a point: The overwhelming majority of the sources cited in your articles are from pro-western or pro-Israeli blogs, and/or editoral cartoonists' websites. These represent the opinions of individuals citing second or third-party sources. They are hardly reliable.
You tend to do this a lot. Of course, Type941 is citing a source that no one can read or locate, so it evens out here.
And I don't get the aversion for a comparison with Lenin. Commie, sure, but remember that this wasn't modern day and Communism wasn't as yet discredited any more than Bush's search to spread democracy today. I can't say I have much faith that a Leninist state would be all that great in retrospect, but hey, we don't know where America is going either!
Lenin was a smart guy; as I said, it's probably doing Lenin a disservice to be compared to Bush rather than the reverse :88)
Kapitan
03-26-06, 12:18 PM
Havnt we lernt from the past?
Sticking you ore into other peoples buisness only gets your nose put out of joint.
One day america will have this happen to them big time.
Oh wait its already happend many times.
Man + Power = Trouble
Relax and enjoy life :smug:
TLAM Strike
03-26-06, 12:30 PM
Marx believed socialism will come to all people naturally. Lenin thought it needed a 'push'.
Others believed that Democracy comes naturally to societies.
GW Bush thinks it needs the 'push'. Is Bush the new Lenin? Sooooo Lenin is just Bush from the evil Mirror Universe?
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/716/startrek113fw.jpg
You know that place where everyone has facial hair & a knife and all women are bi... :rotfl:
…cool!! :rock:
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