I want flag burning and utter outrage in our western streets

[Sixpack]

Okay, not our style :cool: but it would be neat for a change huh ?

[was reading up on Abul Rahman's fate, the converted bloke in Afghanistan)

Imagine: All over the free world millions and millions marching with explicit protests againt radical backward inhumane islam in the world today.

Thru google a bit more on slaughtering of christians
http://www.christianaction.org/

[Sixpack]

PS. And Christians can actually kick ass as well if need be...(and it is) :lol:

Read the analysis here:

http://www.christianaction.org/Should%20Christians%20Fight%20Back.htm

[scandium]

Okay, not our style :cool: but it would be neat for a change huh ?

[was reading up on Abul Rahman's fate, the converted bloke in Afghanistan)

Imagine: All over the free world millions and millions marching with explicit protests againt radical backward inhumane islam in the world today.

Thru google a bit more on slaughtering of christians
http://www.christianaction.org/

I like this quote from that article:

"Is President Bush sick, too? We also have soldiers putting their lives on the line. And for what? For Sharia (Islamic) law? So we can help Muslims establish Islamic Republics?

I'm sure most soldiers (as do most Americans) believe they are fighting for the freedoms we enjoy in the United States, including freedom of religion.

Instead, the Afghan constitution states: "The religion of the state of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is the sacred religion of Islam." And the Iraq constitution is virtually word-for-word.

President Bush says we are promoting "freedom" and "liberty" in Afghanistan and Iraq. Instead, we are promoting medieval theocracies that butcher Christians upon the alter of Islam."

I might have worded it a bit differently but it conveys the same irony I see when I look at Bush's attempts to date at remaking the middle east in America's image.

[Sixpack]

I thought that part was pretty 'spot on' too.

It's painfully obvious 'we' have no cultural business for those places. I mean not in terms of changing those people into our image of how they should be like.

Let them rot ...i mean live their lives...in their deserts, caves and prehistoric villages, and give Rahman and alike asylum over here (unless they want to stick it out over there which I'd prefer).

[The Avon Lady]

I'm going to be a little candid here.

I think that Rahman deserves to die.

I think that a Jew who would have returned and revealed his/her ethnicity in Nazi Germany in the early 40s would also have deserved to die.

No, I am not comparing Nazism to Islamism, as certain people might assume here. I just think that this was almost obvious what would happen here.

As in the case of a Jew trapped by the Nazis, I would also hope that someone comes to the aid of Rahman and is able to extricate him from Afghanistan by hook or by crook.

[Skybird]

He probably knew the risk, but underestimated the chances that his own loving family would hand him over. Nice breed. Wouldn't deal with them at a SABOT's maximum range, but call in a FASCAM first to fix them in their position.

And as always the first voices are to be heared that Islam is not like that and that we should not allow to criticise Islam because of this, since it is very obvious that all this has nothing to do with Islam at all. Greens, Leftwings, Uncorrectables - they already have gathered again in Germany to sing their ignorrant chorus of that we must want Islam and should welcome Multikulti in our streets. when a CDU politicians mentioned that we should consider to withdraw the bundeswehr from afghanistan and cut aids for that country if that guy is killed, they already ran amok again - "How can we?" "How dare we?" "Islam is nice and friendly!"

I would demand the churches to make a tougher stand in this. It is one of their followers, a member of their community, who voluntarily converted, who is in trouble. But they probably leave him alone like those tens of thousands of other Christians that get slaughtered each year - and the church remains silent about that.

To hell with all this medieval BS. My bloodpressure already is at 180 again... :damn: Red some news that there is a confernece underway, examining the crusades more in their real historic light as a reaction to the Muslim attacks of that time. And Islam-lovers again already have raised their stupid voices again, brandmarking it as forging of history and that Christians have no right to escape the wrong image that they were the violant aggressors, while Islam was noble and peaceloving and to the best of all mankind back then.
:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

A reasonable mind has zero chances when dealing with the stupid. Discussion does not help. Showing does not help. Arguing does not help. Reasoning does not help. Refering to historical evidence does not help. You can only hope that the stupids will die early. Unfortunately they don't - instead: they breed.

[Skybird]

http://ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2006-03-20_1209503.html

I do not want to whitewash chruch history - it has had it'S black spots for sure. But the correction of the crusades' image as being war of attacks against a peaceloving victim must be corrected - they were a defense, logical reaction to having been attacked oneself. While it is true that later political and economical motives in this or that faction inside the crusader'S arrmies took over, I have little doubt that a mjaoirty of knights and sevants took on these expeditions with religious moto9ves to defend the heritage of Christinanity after it had been attacked by and fell to Islam. as a historical fact in remains true that Islam attacked Christianity, and repeatedly, in the first. Not the other way around.

I wonder if this conference in the Vatican could be understood as a first signal that they are about to correct the foolish policies towards Islam that had been enforced especially by John Paul II, but had been initiated by the second Vatican council in the early sixties.

[Sixpack]

Sorry I caused your blood pressure to rise again Sky ;)

Good post ! :up:

And you will never hear me say anything bad about the crusaders. These were our ancestors (*) and I'll have them over that scum any day :arrgh!:

(*) Though you would not say considering the amazing number of their moronic offspring today indeed

[Sixpack]

I'm going to be a little candid here.

I think that Rahman deserves to die.

I think that a Jew who would have returned and revealed his/her ethnicity in Nazi Germany in the early 40s would also have deserved to die.

No, I am not comparing Nazism to Islamism, as certain people might assume here. I just think that this was almost obvious what would happen here.

As in the case of a Jew trapped by the Nazis, I would also hope that someone comes to the aid of Rahman and is able to extricate him from Afghanistan by hook or by crook.

Rahman nor the Jewish person in your comparison deserves to die. I think that is a bad choice of word, or typo even?

You meant: 'He should have known he had it coming' (or something)similar

;)

Anyway, these persons lay bare the truth for all to see and they earn our respect and protection

[The Avon Lady]

I'm going to be a little candid here.

I think that Rahman deserves to die.

I think that a Jew who would have returned and revealed his/her ethnicity in Nazi Germany in the early 40s would also have deserved to die.

No, I am not comparing Nazism to Islamism, as certain people might assume here. I just think that this was almost obvious what would happen here.

As in the case of a Jew trapped by the Nazis, I would also hope that someone comes to the aid of Rahman and is able to extricate him from Afghanistan by hook or by crook.

Rahman nor the Jewish person in your comparison deserves to die. I think that is a bad choice of word, or typo even?

You meant: 'He should have known he had it coming' (or something)similar

Correct. Maybe I should have said such people deserve the weekly Darwin award. It's like jumping in front of a train. :cry:

As I also said, I hope someone succeeds in pulling him out of there alive and healthy. :yep:

[Skybird]

Maybe I should have said such people deserve the weekly Darwin award. It's like jumping in front of a train. :cry:
In the late 70s or early 80s there was an incident within a Japanese Buddhist monestary. One of the newcomers they had, some young man, got something they had taught about the nature of mind and the power of thoughts severly wrong. One night he did like he had told one friend, he sneaked out and stepped onto the railway of one of their highspeed trains; assuming that this 100%-situation would focus him enough, he tried to stop the train with dedication and the power of mind. When the police came to the monestary the next morning to express their condolence and give the monks the sad news about what was left of this guy, they were reported to have been somewhat irritated when the whole monestary íncluding the abbot instead of showing more expected reactions just bursted with shouting laughter. :lol:

Well, they have a different view on life and death, it seems :)

[The Avon Lady]

When the police came to the monestary the next morning to express their condolence and give the monks the sad news about what was left of this guy, they were reported to have been somewhat irritated when the whole monestary íncluding the abbot instead of showing more expected reactions just bursted with shouting laughter.
Their prank obviously worked. :88)

[Abraham]

To lower some levels of anxiety and blood pressure; there are already rumors for days that this guy will be set free by President Karzai, who seems to have been monitoring the trial from an early stage and wants to use this verdict to establish his authority over religious zealots.
There are also rumors that Muslim FET's (Fascists/Extremists/Terrorists) are willing to execute the verdict themselves.
Seems like a conflict about the authority of Sharia within Afghanistan is brewing... which would be a sign of progress.

Keep helping Afghanistan to stay on the train to the present. Remember, it's a multi-century trip so give the country some time & space.

[TLAM Strike]

Do the Afgans have no concept of Ex Post Facto? This "Crime" was committed before their goverment existed (yea I know Islamic law existed before but their goverment didn't exisit so it couldn't have been a law on their books.) :roll:

[Skybird]

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Religion&loid=8.0.278814590&par=0

On the other hand:

http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newslongen.php?idelement=4273
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/060321/2006032108.html

[Abraham]

If you steel under an old administration you can be tried under a new one. I bet the death penalty for leaving Islam was in the previous legislation as well as in the new one.

[Type XXIII]

Well, I guess I have to make a stand sometime too...

And, no, I'm not going to defend Islam (much) this time.

This law is completely and utterly wrong. It is at conflict with the human-rights as stated by the UN. It is an example of extreme islamist politics and an abuse that the UN should not tolerate.

Islam as a religion must be tolerated, but not laws that are in conflict with human rights.

UPDATE: It appears the case against Rahman has been dropped, and that he will be released tomorrow, allegedly because of technicalities. link (http://today.reuters.com/tv/videoStory.aspx?isSummitStory=false&storyId=30616a08da8563bcd204c45afb3f433b7e60fa48)

The prosecutors giving in to outside pressure and trying not to lose face?

PS. Some posters should probably notice what source I used.

[TLAM Strike]

If you steel under an old administration you can be tried under a new one. I bet the death penalty for leaving Islam was in the previous legislation as well as in the new one. Its not really a "new administration" its a whole new goverment. Basicly they are (well now were) saying that their consitution (that was just written) prohibs this act. He commited the act before the law was on the books infact the "books" didn't exist since the goverment didn't exist. Even IRAN has an Ex Post Facto law (Article 169 Chapter 11 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran)!!

[Abraham]

If you steel under an old administration you can be tried under a new one. I bet the death penalty for leaving Islam was in the previous legislation as well as in the new one. Its not really a "new administration" its a whole new goverment. Basicly they are (well now were) saying that their consitution (that was just written) prohibs this act. He commited the act before the law was on the books infact the "books" didn't exist since the goverment didn't exist. Even IRAN has an Ex Post Facto law (Article 169 Chapter 11 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran)!!
Still I think that punishment of apostasy is an integral part of the Sharia-rules and as such can not be considered unpunishable. It might well be that under the Taliban government sutch rules were even stricter...

[The Avon Lady]

If you steel under an old administration you can be tried under a new one. I bet the death penalty for leaving Islam was in the previous legislation as well as in the new one. Its not really a "new administration" its a whole new goverment. Basicly they are (well now were) saying that their consitution (that was just written) prohibs this act. He commited the act before the law was on the books infact the "books" didn't exist since the goverment didn't exist. Even IRAN has an Ex Post Facto law (Article 169 Chapter 11 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran)!!
Still I think that punishment of apostasy is an integral part of the Sharia-rules and as such can not be considered unpunishable. It might well be that under the Taliban government sutch rules were even stricter...
Agree. Any self respecting Muslim will simply tell you that Allah's laws are non-rescindable and have been around for 1400 years or possibly several thousands, as Islam refers to its capital punishment from Biblical origins. Example:

Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 6.79, Narrated by Abdullah ibn Umar

The Jews brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from among them who had committed illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet said to them, "How do you usually punish the one amongst you who has committed illegal sexual intercourse?" They replied, "We blacken their faces with coal and beat them." He said, "Don't you find the order of Ar-Rajm (i.e. stoning to death) in the Torah?" They replied, "We do not find anything in it." 'Abdullah bin Salam (after hearing this conversation) said to them, "You have told a lie! Bring here the Torah and recite it if you are truthful." (So the Jews brought the Torah). And the religious teacher who was teaching it to them, put his hand over the Verse of Ar-Rajm and started reading what was written above and below the place hidden with his hand, but he did not read the Verse of Ar-Rajm. 'Abdullah bin Salam removed his (i.e. the teacher's) hand from the Verse of Ar-Rajm and said, "What is this?" So when the Jews saw that Verse, they said, "This is the Verse of Ar-Rajm." So the Prophet ordered the two adulterers to be stoned to death, and they were stoned to death near the place where biers used to be placed near the Mosque. I saw her companion (i.e. the adulterer) bowing over her so as to protect her from the stones.

I have explained in the past why the above or similar Hadiths show the ignorance of Mohamed, the involved Jews or both. In brief, the Jews above should have correctly answered that capital punishment was abolished by the Sanhedrin some 2500 years ago. However, they may have simply been totally ignorant of Torah law. Of course, Mohamed, claiming to be a prophet, might simply be stating that through him and the Quran, capital punishment is back on the books. He's got the powwah! :yep: