Question about RUB fatigue model

[Sgian Dubh]

Hi all,

I'm using RUB 1.45 for the first time with HT and SHIII COmmander. In SHIICOmmander I selected the RUB (not the 1 TC ) fatigue option.

My problem now is that I have just reached my first patrol zone and nearly my entire crew is useless. I can't reload Torpedoes, etc. because the crew is exhausted. I had to give up attacking a convoy because I cannot reload torps and cannot use the deck gun due to high seas.

So what is the trick to deal with crew fatigue in the RUB 1.45?

Thanks.

[Maui]

Don't spend a lot of time in 32x or less. With RUB 1.45 your crew can never recharge. Quarters prevents crew from losing energy, the conning tower in bad weather sucks up the energy the quickest , followed by torpedo rooms (if I recall). If not in quarters, the unused engine room is the best place to keep crew to keep them from draining.

The system was supposed to prevent the problem of having to micro-manage your crew. I didn't like the system and rolled back. I posted about this a while ago-- I feel they replaced one micromanagement problem with another. Rather than micromanaging the crew, I found myself micromanaging time compression. I was constantly trying to sneak in little bits of 64x tc.

[AlanSmithee]

One thing to remember about RUb fatigue is that fatigue stops when you go above 32x TC. Consequently it's best to do any cruising to and from the patrol area at 32x or higher.

You'll also need to make good use of officers and crew with qualifications, as RUb makes effective use of qualifications much more critical than under the normal SH3 fatigue system. Avoid wearing out crew with qualifications unnecessarily - keep them in the barracks (where they won't tire) until they're needed to supplement sailors who are tiring.

After a patrol or two, your crew should be experienced enough that fatigue doesn't become much of an issue. I soon found myself having to do far less micromanagement than with stock fatigue.

Edit: What a frighteningly similar double post! :doh:

[Sgian Dubh]

Thanks.

I spend most of my transit time in 256 and higher. So I will have to look how I can reduce my time in sub 32 even more.

Does anyone know what the difference is between the two RUB options in SHIII Commander?

So, if there is no way to recharge the crew I should just end the patrol and head back in. Well, I sank a few ships anyway...

THanks again.

[JScones]

RUb Mod 1x TC is for players that play SH3 totally at 1x TC.

One thing with the model is that after a few patrols it gets easier and the need to micro manage decreases.

[Sgian Dubh]

Okay. Thanks.

I'm on second patrol now and will see how it goes.

[Sgian Dubh]

Okay,

I'm back with follow up observations.

I am on a new patrol. I have spent virtually no time below 512X, let alone below 64X, yet my watch crews are accumulating fatigue at an alarming rate (in fact. I have been closely monitoring other crew members not in the two quarters areas. At 1024X for an 8-hour shift, all of the crew members I checked, regardless of where they are stationed (except the two 'rest' areas) will have noticable increases in their Fatigue levels. The watch crew is by far the worst, but anyone in the forward torp room is also accumulating fatigue.

But my understanding is that time spent in TC 64 or higher should not see any crewmembers accumulating fatigue.

I am running SHIII 1.4 + RUB 1.45+Harbor Traffic for RUB 1.45 + SHIIICommander.

I have selected that the RUB fatigue model be used in SHIII Commander. I did not select the RUB 1x TC option.


I may as well switch back to stock fatigue unless some kind soul can help me sort this out. Right now I am headed to another mid-patrol abort due to accumulated fatigue.

[JScones]

Okay,

I'm back with follow up observations.

I am on a new patrol. I have spent virtually no time below 512X, let alone below 64X, yet my watch crews are accumulating fatigue at an alarming rate (in fact. I have been closely monitoring other crew members not in the two quarters areas. At 1024X for an 8-hour shift, all of the crew members I checked, regardless of where they are stationed (except the two 'rest' areas) will have noticable increases in their Fatigue levels. The watch crew is by far the worst, but anyone in the forward torp room is also accumulating fatigue.

But my understanding is that time spent in TC 64 or higher should not see any crewmembers accumulating fatigue.

I am running SHIII 1.4 + RUB 1.45+Harbor Traffic for RUB 1.45 + SHIIICommander.

I have selected that the RUB fatigue model be used in SHIII Commander. I did not select the RUB 1x TC option.


I may as well switch back to stock fatigue unless some kind soul can help me sort this out. Right now I am headed to another mid-patrol abort due to accumulated fatigue.
I assume the 3DRender value in your \My Documents\ copy of Main.cfg is set to 32 (this is mapped to "When in 3D Views" in SH3Cmdr)?

Whatever value you set here is the value that fatigue will work up to. So, if you've changed it to x1024 so you can see the animations at greater TC, then your crew will be fatiguing up to x1024 too. It means that with some fatigue models your crew are literally stuffed before you get out of port!

[Sgian Dubh]

Hmmmm.

I did change the maximum TC value via SHIII Commmander to 2048. I also increased a few others (like hunting and being hunted. I don't recall changing the 3D view. I will check the file and change the value as appropriate.

Thanks for the help!

[mike_espo]

I never did understand the reasoning behind RuB fatigue model...crew should be able to regain efficiency. :huh:

NYGM crew management mod is great! By far superior to RuB... :up:

[AlanSmithee]

I never did understand the reasoning behind RuB fatigue model...crew should be able to regain efficiency. :huh:

This thread is starting to make me nostolgic for the good old days of RUb when every other post in the Mods forum was an attempt by Beery to explain his nefarious fatigue-modifying motives. ;)

In any case, the whole point is that being on a U-boat is miserable (no bath, no fresh food, no ice cream like the Americans have) and so is combat in a U-boat. Over time it wears you down, and you don't recover without some R&R and good French wine and food. So what's being modeled is not "fatigue" in the "I need a nap" sense, but instead fatigue in the "I need a vacation" sense. The concepts are completely different.

That said, RUb fatigue does have its problems. As everyone's noted, you stop micromanaging individual sailors and start micromanaging time compression. That's why I finally switched over to the RUb 1x mod, and later Kaa's fatigue mod. It's also based on the RUb concept, but gets around the TC micromanagement by having fatigue constantly increase at all levels of TC, but at a very, very slow rate. That sets upper limits on how long you can keep a crew at sea. (Note that everyone on the boat gets worn down, even those in the barracks, which simulates crew rotation. In other words, no micromanagement at all.) I've also subsequently added the NYGM morale elements to Kaa, as I'm not a big fan of the micormanagement of NYGM but love the addition of morale.

[JonZac]

Sorry, I've been looking for these additional fatigue mods and I can't find them. Can anyone help?

[Sgian Dubh]

I second the request above.

Is it fairly straight forward to merge a different fatigue routine into RUB?

I was wondering if the RUB 1x would resolve the problem even if I use TC.

I am going to look for other mods and do the RUB 1x.

[Sgian Dubh]

@JScones:

So I looked in the main.cfg in the place you suggested. It was set to 64 (so I had changed it) BUT that still doesn't explain why I saw crew members fatigue increase during an 8-hour period where the entire 8 hours was spent at 1024 TC.

So some thing is not adding up.

Here is all of the settings from that section of the main.cfg:

[TIME COMPRESSION]
TimeStop=0
RealTime=1
LandProximity=64
CriticalDamage=1
CrewEfficiency=1
AirEnemyDetected=1
SoundEffects=2
CharacterAnim=4
EnemyDetected=64
RadioReport=8
Particles=8
PrayState=512
HunterState=512
3DRender=64
Maximum=2048

THis is the file that produced the behaviour I described above.

Any help on sorting this out would be most appreciated.

Thanks.

Edited:

I just had to quit the second patrol in the middle due to crew fatigue. I spent nearly the entire time in at least 512x TC.

I also re-confirmed that the crew is accumulating fatigue at 512X TC and higher with the settings as reported above.

[AlanSmithee]

Sgian - very strange. Everything in main.cfg looks okay. Are you noticing the fatigue actually increase while you're at 512x? If you're just gaining small amounts of fatigue over time, it could be because RadioReport=8, meaning you'll be picking up fatigue every time you get a message. Of course, that still doesn't seem like it'd be enough to force you to return home.

RUb 1x would "resolve" the problem, sort of. As you've probably figured out, the 1x mod can be used at higher TC's as long as you up the 3DRender= value to something higher than you'd actually use in-game (e.g., I set mine to 2048). However, with RUb 1x your crew does become fatigued excessively quickly - I wouldn't try any Drumbeat patrols with it. Kaa's works on the same principle, but allows for longer patrols.

Sgian and JonZac - If you're looking for Kaa's fatigue, I'm not sure you'll be able to find it in an immediately usable format. IIRC, it was originally released for an older version of SH3 Commander, which used a different format for fatigue mods. One I get home tonight I can post a version that works correctly with the newest edition of SH3 Commander.

As to combining NYGM and other fatigue mods, I simply pasted the morale sections of NYGM into the Kaa mod in the SH3 Commander fatigue file. AFAIK the NYGM/Kaa hybid works, but it needs some more testing to confirm that there aren't any strange side-effects.

[mheil]

I've been running RUB 1.45 by itself and have noticed LESS fatigue than the straight game! The only problem I have is that I have to sload up the engine room with petty officers to get the engines to work. I'm heading back to port now finishing up my second patrol. Returning for lack of torps and fuel not fatigue

[AlanSmithee]

For all who are interested, here is kaa's VII and IX fatigue mod for Silent Hunter III. These have been formatted to work with SH3 Commander v2.1.4.70. To install these, paste them on the end of the SH3 Commander\Cfg\Crew fatigue models.cfg file. Adjust the bracketed numbers ([13] and [14]) as necessary.

Just to be clear, I don't make any claim to have created this mod - that honor belongs to kaa. I just reformatted it to make it work correctly with SH3 Commander.

***NOTE: THIS MOD IS FREEWARE AND MAY NOT BE SOLD FOR PROFIT, IN PART OR IN WHOLE.*** (Can't ever be too safe, especially when people don't want to play nice. :nope:)

[13]
Desc=kaa VII
;CREW_ block
0_FatigueMax=0.80
0_FatigueStep=0.0001
1_FatigueMax=0.70
1_FatigueStep=0.0001
2_FatigueMax=0.60
2_FatigueStep=0.0001
3_FatigueMax=0.80
3_FatigueStep=0.0001
4_FatigueMax=0.70
4_FatigueStep=0.0001
5_FatigueMax=0.60
5_FatigueStep=0.0001
6_FatigueMax=0.80
6_FatigueStep=0.0001
7_FatigueMax=0.70
7_FatigueStep=0.0001
8_FatigueMax=0.60
8_FatigueStep=0.0001
;FATIGUE_COEF block
RegularFactor00=0.01
SpecificFactor00=0.0001
BadWeather0=0.0001
RegularFactor10=0.01
RegularFactor11=0.01
SpecificFactor10=0.0001
SpecificFactor11=0.0001
BadWeather1=0.0001
RegularFactor20=0.01
RegularFactor21=0.01
SpecificFactor20=0.0001
SpecificFactor21=0.0001
BadWeather2=0.0001
RegularFactor30=0.01
RegularFactor31=0.01
SpecificFactor30=0.0001
SpecificFactor31=0.0001
BadWeather3=0.0001
RegularFactor40=0.01
RegularFactor41=0.01
SpecificFactor40=0.0001
SpecificFactor41=0.0001
BadWeather4=0.0001
RegularFactor50=0.01
RegularFactor51=0.01
SpecificFactor50=0.001
SpecificFactor51=0.001
BadWeather5=0.001
SpecificFactor60=0.0
SpecificFactor61=0.0
SpecificFactor70=0.0
SpecificFactor71=0.0
RegularFactor80=0.01
RegularFactor81=0.01
SpecificFactor80=0.001
SpecificFactor81=0.001
BadWeather8=0.001
RegularFactor90=0.01
SpecificFactor90=0.001
BadWeather9=0.001
RegularFactor100=0.01
SpecificFactor100=0.001
BadWeather10=0.001
RegularFactor110=0.01
RegularFactor111=0.01
SpecificFactor110=0.0001
SpecificFactor111=0.0001
BadWeather11=0.0001

[14]
Desc=kaa IX
;CREW_ block
0_FatigueMax=0.80
0_FatigueStep=0.00005
1_FatigueMax=0.70
1_FatigueStep=0.00005
2_FatigueMax=0.60
2_FatigueStep=0.00005
3_FatigueMax=0.80
3_FatigueStep=0.00005
4_FatigueMax=0.70
4_FatigueStep=0.00005
5_FatigueMax=0.60
5_FatigueStep=0.00005
6_FatigueMax=0.80
6_FatigueStep=0.00005
7_FatigueMax=0.70
7_FatigueStep=0.00005
8_FatigueMax=0.60
8_FatigueStep=0.00005
;FATIGUE_COEF block
RegularFactor00=0.01
SpecificFactor00=0.00005
BadWeather0=0.00005
RegularFactor10=0.01
RegularFactor11=0.01
SpecificFactor10=0.00005
SpecificFactor11=0.00005
BadWeather1=0.00005
RegularFactor20=0.01
RegularFactor21=0.01
SpecificFactor20=0.00005
SpecificFactor21=0.00005
BadWeather2=0.00005
RegularFactor30=0.01
RegularFactor31=0.01
SpecificFactor30=0.00005
SpecificFactor31=0.00005
BadWeather3=0.00005
RegularFactor40=0.01
RegularFactor41=0.01
SpecificFactor40=0.00005
SpecificFactor41=0.00005
BadWeather4=0.00005
RegularFactor50=0.01
RegularFactor51=0.01
SpecificFactor50=0.001
SpecificFactor51=0.001
BadWeather5=0.001
SpecificFactor60=0.0
SpecificFactor61=0.0
SpecificFactor70=0.0
SpecificFactor71=0.0
RegularFactor80=0.01
RegularFactor81=0.01
SpecificFactor80=0.001
SpecificFactor81=0.001
BadWeather8=0.001
RegularFactor90=0.01
SpecificFactor90=0.001
BadWeather9=0.001
RegularFactor100=0.01
SpecificFactor100=0.001
BadWeather10=0.001
RegularFactor110=0.01
RegularFactor111=0.01
SpecificFactor110=0.00005
SpecificFactor111=0.00005
BadWeather11=0.00005

[Sgian Dubh]

Sgian - very strange. Everything in main.cfg looks okay. Are you noticing the fatigue actually increase while you're at 512x? If you're just gaining small amounts of fatigue over time, it could be because RadioReport=8, meaning you'll be picking up fatigue every time you get a message. Of course, that still doesn't seem like it'd be enough to force you to return home.

RUb 1x would "resolve" the problem, sort of. As you've probably figured out, the 1x mod can be used at higher TC's as long as you up the 3DRender= value to something higher than you'd actually use in-game (e.g., I set mine to 2048). However, with RUb 1x your crew does become fatigued excessively quickly - I wouldn't try any Drumbeat patrols with it. Kaa's works on the same principle, but allows for longer patrols.

Sgian and JonZac - If you're looking for Kaa's fatigue, I'm not sure you'll be able to find it in an immediately usable format. IIRC, it was originally released for an older version of SH3 Commander, which used a different format for fatigue mods. One I get home tonight I can post a version that works correctly with the newest edition of SH3 Commander.

As to combining NYGM and other fatigue mods, I simply pasted the morale sections of NYGM into the Kaa mod in the SH3 Commander fatigue file. AFAIK the NYGM/Kaa hybid works, but it needs some more testing to confirm that there aren't any strange side-effects.

When I use, say, 1024 TC I will see a person on the bridge go from 3/4 full (fatigue) to completely useless i.e. totally knackered with an exclamation point next to him. This is running at 1024 for an 8 hour period.

I see fatigue increase in all crew members not in quarters and I have seen crew members in quarters accumulate fatigue on during similar tests.

[AlanSmithee]

I tried to replicate the issue you're having and configured my main.cfg just like yours. Still, I couldn't get anything odd to happen - no one became fatigued while at 1024x TC.

On the other hand, I did find it odd that I couldn't increase the TC beyond 64x when at the crew screen (meaning the crew were getting fatigued whenever I left the map to inspect the crew). Somehow I don't remember this as being an issue before. Perhaps some of the values in main.cfg are interacting in a strange way? Barring that, you may have to resort to the dreaded reinstall. :damn:

[Sgian Dubh]

I may go ahead and reinstall.

I am int he process of joining WaW and I think I am going to switch to the NYGM mod (which, if I understand correctly, includes RUB). Unless there is a way to add the NYGM stuff to my existing RUB+Harbor Traffic+SHIII commander install?