Intellectual output from the Arab world

[Sixpack]

credit where credit is due..

obviously projected against Jewish output ;)

http://www.masada2000.org/nobel.html

[Skybird]

That's because they are superhumans. One Muslim easily compensates for three dozen Jews, you know. In fact the list only illustrates the enormous inferiority of Jewish intellectualism. Just look how many names it took the Jews to rival that handful of names on the other side. Muslims became bored with their superiority and stopped following intellectual evolution for that reason. Instead they decided to find out how long they can hold their breath. the surprising result: since over a thousand years so far. Which may explain why so many of them so easily get red faces.

Now, seriously: what to expect after 1400 years of intellectual standstill and supression or murdering of almost every creative thinker?

[U-552Erich-Topp]

I have to agree with this website. The facts speak for themselves. Maybe the little jewish population has made too much noise in the world and maybe that's why this page has been posted. Regardless, the website shows a great imbalance between the arabs and the jews.

[TLAM Strike]

What I really want to know is whose severed arm is that in the picture! :huh: :o :huh:

BTW since this is the trendy thing to do: I posted the list of Arab Nobel Winners in another thread... (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49777&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=nobel&start=25) :lol:

[Sixpack]

What I really want to know is whose severed arm is that in the picture! :huh: :o :huh:



[check] Not mine ! Oops, bad choice of word here: 'mine'

[The Avon Lady]

What I really want to know is whose severed arm is that in the picture! :huh: :o :huh:
Anyone here?

Don't be shy. Please raise your hand.

[Oberon]

What I really want to know is whose severed arm is that in the picture! :huh: :o :huh:
Anyone here?

Don't be shy. Please raise your hand.

http://www.sweptawaytravels.com/images/Sail%202000%20Amsterdam/artmonster.jpg

:huh: :o :huh: :doh:

[scandium]

Interesting page. I particularly like how the author of it, based upon a single criteria (relative number of Nobel prize winners) draws the sweeping conclusion that:

"Unless the Swedes and Norwegians start awarding Nobel Prizes for plane hijackings, pizza shop bombings, civilian bus attacks, Jihad suicides/homicides, drive-by shootings, throat-slittings, embassy attacks and other such acts of barbarisms, the embarrassing low level of contribution to the welfare of Civilization and Mankind by the [Arab] Muslim world will continue."

Calling 1.4 billion people "barbarians" (to paraphrase the long quote) is quite a sweeping generalization. Certainly out of any group of 1.4 million people you're going to have your share of fanatics and nutjobs, but that's a pretty broad brush he uses to paint this whole ethnic/religious group with.

As to to why Arabs produce disproportionately fewer Nobel prize winners, there are probably many factors. I somehow doubt, though, that its simply because they're all committing hijackings, bombings, bus attacks, shootings, and throat-slittings; for if that were true there'd be none of us left to talk about it.

[Skybird]

The question remains why in that community there is obviously only small, often no resistence towards such barbaric acts, and why such a big community obviously is underrepresented in the list of Nobel Prizes.

The least thing that can be said is that in Christian/Western, Buddhist and other communities the pressure of that community towards criticising or brandmarking or isolating or prosecuting such extremist elements in it's middle is far higher, higher beyond comparison. even amongst Jews in general and Israelis in special there is more debate and pressure from the one opinion party to get the deadlock of violance solved, and questioning the Israelis government in it's reactions to the Palestinians terror.

And where Europe in the medieva,l and in times after that, tried to oppress any threats to the church and preventing any alternatives to the worldview of the church, but finally got beyond that (that'S why Jews and the West were able to establish a culture that produced so many Nobel Proze winners), Muslim community still sticks to the medieval supression of anything that is not it'S orthdoxy, and even tells the world it has a right to overcome anything that is not Islamic, if needed by violance. In that supression of any internal oppostion or alternative, Islam is far more extreme and successful than the church in the medieval ever was. We have come beyond the medieval. Islam not.

All in the name of religion, of course.

[TLAM Strike]

Calling 1.4 billion people "barbarians" (to paraphrase the long quote) is quite a sweeping generalization. Well technically the term Barbarian comes from a Greek word meaning "Non-Greek" so yes most Muslims are "barbarians". :yep:

[Skybird]

I wonder how many of those 1.4 billion barbarians that do not want to be called barbarians will go on the street and demonstrate against this:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2006/03/20/afghans_may_execute_man_who_converted/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Today%27s+paper+A+to+Z

[Sixpack]

I wonder how many of those 1.4 billion barbarians that do not want to be called barbarians will go on the street and demonstrate against this:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2006/03/20/afghans_may_execute_man_who_converted/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Today%27s+paper+A+to+Z

Well, that is sad news indeed, but I am currently more concerned about some pressing Dutch matters:

1. The Burqa will possibly become fashionable (current minister thinks it frees women after a study trip to Abu Daibi :doh:
2. The really urgent need for at least 100 more muslim schools, for starters ofcourse.

Anyone still wonders why Sixpack sometimes feels stuck in the middle of at least 2 insane worlds ?

[scandium]

I wonder how many of those 1.4 billion barbarians that do not want to be called barbarians will go on the street and demonstrate against this:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2006/03/20/afghans_may_execute_man_who_converted/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Today%27s+paper+A+to+Z

Didn't we just liberate that country from harsh Islamic theocracy and install a Western friendly democracy? This is supposedly our Western interventionist success story and you have to go and point this story out.

While on the subject of executions, they are a pretty scarce thing these days and are practiced only by one country that prides itself as being "civilized" - the USA.

I think they are possibly the only country (or one of a very, very few) to execute both children under the age of 18 and the mentally retarded. Not only that but the country elected its current leader (twice) who had been caught on camera mocking the retarded woman he'd just refused clemency to. How many of the 280 million in the US protested?

And its not like no innocent Americans have ever waited on death row for the needle or the gas chamber (isn't this the same thing the "barbaric" Nazis used on the Jews?) only to be saved at the last minute by DNA evidence proving them innocent of the crime. We can only wonder, then, how many have been wrongfully put to death by the state.

No I'm not equating the USA with Afghanistan. They're a semi-sovereign nation with their own laws and customs and unfortunately for the West, not all of the world is white, christian, and prosperous. In many cases they don't even have the say in who governs them or writes their laws that we do (being often times ruled by a succession of dictators).

I would doubt that many of the world's 1.4 billion Arabs, many of whom live in either chaos, or poverty (Iraq being a prime example of both, though it was neither before we intervened to "fix it") read the Boston Globe though.

Your previous post raised much better questions.

[Sixpack]

What I really want to know is whose severed arm is that in the picture! :huh: :o :huh:
Anyone here?

Don't be shy. Please raise your hand.

http://www.sweptawaytravels.com/images/Sail%202000%20Amsterdam/artmonster.jpg

:huh: :o :huh: :doh:

What are those morons doing ? In Amsterdam, so it appears. Bah ! :damn:

[The Avon Lady]

What I really want to know is whose severed arm is that in the picture! :huh: :o :huh:
Anyone here?

Don't be shy. Please raise your hand.

http://www.sweptawaytravels.com/images/Sail%202000%20Amsterdam/artmonster.jpg

:huh: :o :huh: :doh:

What are those morons doing ? In Amsterdam, so it appears. Bah ! :damn:
Red right district? :hmm:

[Skybird]

I wonder how many of those 1.4 billion barbarians that do not want to be called barbarians will go on the street and demonstrate against this:

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2006/03/20/afghans_may_execute_man_who_converted/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Today%27s+paper+A+to+Z

Didn't we just liberate that country from harsh Islamic theocracy and install a Western friendly democracy? This is supposedly our Western interventionist success story and you have to go and point this story out.

While on the subject of executions, they are a pretty scarce thing these days and are practiced only by one country that prides itself as being "civilized" - the USA.

I think they are possibly the only country (or one of a very, very few) to execute both children under the age of 18 and the mentally retarded. Not only that but the country elected its current leader (twice) who had been caught on camera mocking the retarded woman he'd just refused clemency to. How many of the 280 million in the US protested?

And its not like no innocent Americans have ever waited on death row for the needle or the gas chamber (isn't this the same thing the "barbaric" Nazis used on the Jews?) only to be saved at the last minute by DNA evidence proving them innocent of the crime. We can only wonder, then, how many have been wrongfully put to death by the state.

No I'm not equating the USA with Afghanistan. They're a semi-sovereign nation with their own laws and customs and unfortunately for the West, not all of the world is white, christian, and prosperous. In many cases they don't even have the say in who governs them or writes their laws that we do (being often times ruled by a succession of dictators).

I would doubt that many of the world's 1.4 billion Arabs, many of whom live in either chaos, or poverty (Iraq being a prime example of both, though it was neither before we intervened to "fix it") read the Boston Globe though.

Your previous post raised much better questions.

You are aiming at the wrong person. Use the search-button to find what I said about Afghanistan during the last four years, or Iraq, or Islam, or Turkey. You are not long enough around to remember that, and I have no intention to repeat dozens and dozens of pages of essays and writings I have produced in that time :) I have come to an almost zero tolerance policy towards Islam, yes, and for very good reasons. But I have opposed and attacked America's way of bringing them it's political ideas and values in the same uncompromised way and manner.

The Western countries and their faults you quoted - still there are many protesters and demonstrators against such things, and medias reflect such discussion to a wqide degree, usually. Sentencing and/or killing people for typical Islamic reasons, Sharia or family honours (disobedient females, especially) is common practice in many countries between Marocco and Indonesia, some of which I had been to. It's just not always a headline in the news. And still public Muslim protest and resistance against such things by far does not compare to the level Western citizens make issues within their communities an issue of examination or public debate. Nor do I see a Muslim uprise against the yearly killing of around 150.000 Christians in Muslim countries in local progroms and local violance (source: Vatican leak), nor against the ethnic cleansing that takes place in all Muslim territory since 1300 years and led to the constant declining of all non-Muslim communities in these territories during that time, until today.

From Germany I know that a huge degree of young generation Muslims having lived in Germany all their live welcomes the idea of violance against disobedient female family members, and Sharia. I wrote about that in the past as well.

I do not accept Islam claiming it is ethically en par and of the same civilisational development level like the West has been in the past (we are beyond the climax of our culture, but still we are far better off than almost all other world, especially the Muslim world and Africa). It is not, but lacks more than a millenium behind. If you do not believe me, I recommend you to travel and see some places yourself. ;) I have seen quite a bit of the Orient. I know that in many parts of Africa it is even worse, without having been in Africa (accept the northern coast-states).

I remember a news from some days ago, in England or Belgium, I do not remember. A Muslim husband is currently at court, being accused for having beaten up his wife. He defended that he does not know what it was about, in his Muslim home country he wouldn't have beaten her, but would have seen her getting killed - if this is no sign that he is a moderate Muslim...?! - Pack your luggage and back to the place under that stone where you have emerged from, that is all I have to say to this moderate muslim. My place shall not be your place as well.

[scandium]

You are aiming at the wrong person. Use the search-button to find what I said about Afghanistan during the last four years, or Iraq, or Islam, or Turkey. You are not long enough around to remember that, and I have no intention to repeat dozens and dozens of pages of essays and writings I have produced in that time :) I have come to an almost zero tolerance policy towards Islam, yes, and for very good reasons. But I have opposed and attacked America's way of bringing them it's political ideas and values in the same uncompromised way and manner.

The Western countries and their faults you quoted - still there are many protesters and demonstrators against such things, and medias reflect such discussion to a wqide degree, usually. Sentencing and/or killing people for typical Islamic reasons, Sharia or family honours (disobedient females, especially) is common practice in many countries between Marocco and Indonesia, some of which I had been to. It's just not always a headline in the news. And still public Muslim protest and resistance against such things by far does not compare to the level Western citizens make issues within their communities an issue of examination or public debate. Nor do I see a Muslim uprise against the yearly killing of around 150.000 Christians in Muslim countries in local progroms and local violance (source: Vatican leak), nor against the ethnic cleansing that takes place in all Muslim territory since 1300 years and led to the constant declining of all non-Muslim communities in these territories during that time, until today.

From Germany I know that a huge degree of young generation Muslims having lived in Germany all their live welcomes the idea of violance against disobedient female family members, and Sharia. I wrote about that in the past as well.

I do not accept Islam claiming it is ethically en par and of the same civilisational development level like the West has been in the past (we are beyond the climax of our culture, but still we are far better off than almost all other world, especially the Muslim world and Africa). It is not, but lacks more than a millenium behind. If you do not believe me, I recommend you to travel and see some places yourself. ;) I have seen quite a bit of the Orient. I know that in many parts of Africa it is even worse, without having been in Africa (accept the northern coast-states).

I remember a news from some days ago, in England or Belgium, I do not remember. A Muslim husband is currently at court, being accused for having beaten up his wife. He defended that he does not know what it was about, in his Muslim home country he wouldn't have beaten her, but would have seen her getting killed - if this is no sign that he is a moderate Muslim...?! - Pack your luggage and back to the place under that stone where you have emerged from, that is all I have to say to this moderate muslim. My place shall not be your place as well.

Not really aiming at anyone, in fact from what I've read already I suspect we're actually of a like mind on many things political.

I don't have a zero tolerance of Muslims though, there we are of very different opinions. I'm not saying that I'm for Islamic Jihad or anything of that sort, as certainly there are clear lines between what an international community can tolerate and what it cannot.

I don't view all "Arabs" under the same lens though simply because they are too diversified a group: both geographically and religiously (I'm no expert on the Koran but the various groups do seem to differ in how they interpret it). I think Islam, compared to modern day christianity, is certainly difficult for us Westerners to wrap our minds around no matter how "moderate" it may be. And I agree, to an extent, that from the point of view of an "elightened" civilization they do still seem to be stuck in the dark ages. Though christianity has many dark chapters of its own, and still remains a tool to uncritically rationalize one's actions when no rational explanation can be applied.

But when you're talking about a geographically diversified group of 1.4 billion Muslim people I personally find it very had to make too many generalizations. I would like to think that they should be given the opportunity to work their "growing pains" out but at the same time I understand that the hostility some of them have toward the West combined with the ease of modern day transit, deadly weapons, and their willingness to use them even when it means self-destruction, doesn't tend to allow us to simply sit back and let them work things out themselves.

There are really two big cultural problems that I see: one is radical Islam (Islam and religion in general, for that matter, more evil having come of both than good to my mind) and the other is the poverty and exclusion that can allow the religion to become more and more radical. And our interventions into the middle east to date haven't done anything to change things, if anything we've only stirred the hornet's nest. Essentially we're between a rock and a hard place with conflict between the two cultures likely not only to become more common, but more deadly as well (9/11 being but a small taste of what may be in store for us). Yet in our interventions we seem only to show a knack for making the situation worse.

[Skybird]

Since you are wondering why I think that way, the major essays I wrote on the matter. Sorry for the spelling, I simply type too fast.

I haven't always been that hostile towards Islam, but found myself in need to become like that the more I reflected on academical input and experiences at location and general research of previous years. I have done quite a bit of travelling there, partially for professional reasons, and spend - amongst others - half a year each in Turkey (Eastern part, Anatolia, Kurdistan), and Iran (North-West, Teheran, southeastern border region).

Until roughly two years ago I have shared your more generous, tolerant attiude. I rate this as almost suicidal nowadays.

the lionks are no obligation, since it is a lot of reading, it's just an invitation. Let it be if you do not want, it's okay. It's not too systematical, I wrote it the way it came to my mind.

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=45065&highlight=history+islam
"If you want the history stuff alone, go to chapter 2. If you want my quarrel with Islam moving into the modern West plus some already known stuff I have written in former topics in the past months, go for the Foreword as well."

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=48674&highlight=dialogue

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=48105&highlight=dialogue

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=27048&highlight=turkey

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=47650&highlight=

[Sixpack]

Whoa there !

Scandium, welcome to this forum. Just what it needed ! Another opinionated personality. The more the merrier ! :up:

One reminder tho'. Skybird has gained and fully earned a special position here (as his avatar gives away). His 'Palmarès include critically acclaimed study projects on Islam's history and current position: A definite must read. Moreover: He is German. And the good news is: Gone are the days of 'die Marchierer' who would mindlessly follow orders and later on: The Germans who are painfully politically correct as not be confused with TR Germany. Hail to a new breed of free spirited Germans.

He ist der Weltmeister of verbose, of avalanches of words, of waterfalls of syllables. He uses words like a M1A2 uses its 120mm M256 smoothbore gun.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/images/abram1.jpg

[Sixpack]

Until roughly two years ago I have shared your more generous, tolerant attiude. I rate this as almost suicidal nowadays.

It was not much more than a year ago I think when -rather to my surprise at that point- you came out of your closet on the Islam issue. Things went quick from then on...

:arrgh!:

[scandium]

Thanks for the welcome. I'd been lurking in the Sh3 forum for at least a couple months before finally registering and posting. It was only more recently that I ventured into the "General Topics" and discovered something very rare on the 'net these days: an international forum where political, military, and religious discussions are not only welcome, and of differing points of view, but even civil.

I'll probably sift through some of his archived links to get a better feel for the forum and the writings, because I have to admit that despite having read many threads in SH3 before ever posting, with registration out of the way I just dove straight into this one.

[Skybird]

Until roughly two years ago I have shared your more generous, tolerant attiude. I rate this as almost suicidal nowadays.

It was not much more than a year ago I think when -rather to my surprise at that point- you came out of your closet on the Islam issue. Things went quick from then on...

:arrgh!:

:( But my opinion on Bush and Neocons has not changed much... You just never asked me about Islam earlier :)

[Abraham]

Until roughly two years ago I have shared your more generous, tolerant attiude. I rate this as almost suicidal nowadays.

It was not much more than a year ago I think when -rather to my surprise at that point- you came out of your closet on the Islam issue. Things went quick from then on...

:arrgh!:

:( But my opinion on Bush and Neocons has not changed much... You just never asked me about Islam earlier :)
Those were the days that Islam (and anti-Nazism) were the only subjcts Skybird & I agreed upon, but nevertheless got into fights because even with those subjects he couldn't hide his anti-Americanism...
:D
Nowadays my opinion about Bush (not America) is shifting, due to reading Tom Friedman's "Longitudes and Attitudes".
:-?

[Skybird]

Nowadays my opinion about Bush (not America) is shifting, due to reading Tom Friedman's "Longitudes and Attitudes".
:-?

Ach nee, ne...? :) "'ne Hütte auf 'ner Wanderdüne is' schneller!" :lol:

BTW, just fopr the record. It is anti-Bushism, not anti-americanism. :know: