Grey Wolves Errata Report Thread.

[vodkajello]

I've created this thread to help the devs with their new release.

This is not the place for feature requests, do that somewhere else please.

This thread is for reporting errors in the existing package. Hopefully it will help them with the improvement of a very nicely put together mod package!

:up:

Current version: 1.0

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Where to get Grey Wolves:
You can find it on Terrapin's site - The awesome SH3 download site: http://www.u-boot.realsimulation.com

Now that FileFront seems to be running faster... get GW there:

GW README NOW!!!: http://files.filefront.com/GW_README_NOWzip/;4906023;;/fileinfo.html
Part 1: http://files.filefront.com/The_Grey_Wolves_v10_PART_17z/;4903164;;/fileinfo.html
Part 2: http://files.filefront.com/The_Grey_Wolves_v10_PART_27z/;4904727;;/fileinfo.html
Part 3: http://files.filefront.com/The_Grey_Wolves_v10_PART_3A7z/;4905371;;/fileinfo.html
Part 4: http://files.filefront.com/The_Grey_Wolves_v10_PART_47z/;4905565;;/fileinfo.html
Part 5: http://files.filefront.com/The_Grey_Wolves_v10_PART_57z/;4905690;;/fileinfo.html
Part 6: http://files.filefront.com/The_Grey_Wolves_v10_PART_67z/;4905837;;/fileinfo.html

You can also use Bittorrent to get the GW mod thanks to Gizzmoe. Keep your torrent running after downloading it! Help the community and help Terrapin's servers out by providing another way to download GW! (March 23 01:17, 15 seeds, 12 peers)
Here: http://www.torrentspy.com/torrent/614487/Grey_Wolves_Supermod_for_Silent_Hunter_III_Freewar e
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Damage model info:
Explanation of new Damage model and gunnery on Page 3 and 5 of this post. Look for the posts from Kpt. Lehmann

I think that players need to become accustomed to the NYGM Ship Damage Mod. You will find 225 posts over 9 pages discussing how it all works in the 'Not Your Grand Mothers Ship Damage Mod Beta 0.1.36' thread here - http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=47519&highlight=nygm

I would strongly suggest also reading the NYGM Tonnage War v1.03 User Manual.pdf found here http://hosted.filefront.com/TeddyBar In the NYGM Tonnage War v1.03 User Manual is 12 pages outlining how the ship damage was implemented in SHIII and what NYGM did to attain what is currently in use.

If the Damage (or lack there of) settings are not to your liking I would suggest that you just overwrite the Zones.cfg with the stock 1 for SH3. It will leave all the other GW goodness in and give you the sinkings you deserve. -Cdre Gibs
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Problem log (all problems in this thread will be summarized here with their solution):

1. Missing textures on interiour of uboat.
SOLVED
Solution: Corrupt download or bad install. Fresh install and new DL of GW fixed problem. Confirmed not to be a problem with the files available for download.

2. Shadows on dragable chrono not displaying properly.
SOLVED
Solution: Likely a graphics card driver update will fix this. Sounds like a rendering bug.

3. Type XXI engine rooms must be filled over the green bar to get the sub moving at all.
SOLVED
Solution:
-Confirmed not to be GW problem by Ribini and K.L.
-believe this has something to do with a crew fatigue model (usually this bug appears with Advanced Holywood Damage). Change from SH3cdr to "no fatigue", delete any [compartment] references to /sh3cdr/cfg/Medals and renown.cfg. and see what happens.
-user was using beta of GW, not release version 1.0.

4. - INVINCIBLE TRAWLERS - this small thingy is indestructionable. For some reason all shells and torpedoes go right through it like it was not there. Is it missing some collision or damage model?
SOLVED
Solution: Reported multiple times. Collision and damage is broken. People have even driven their sub right though the trawler and don't hit it.
-The problem definately lies within the zon file for the armed trawler. I switched back to the GW data folder, but used the stock SH3 trawler zon instead. The trawler was successfully attacked and sunk. -syxx_killer
-fix!:
http://rapidshare.de/files/16690841/GW_Armed_Trawler_Fix.zip.html


5. the fuel guages in the CE's report doesn't jive the slide out report. Also as we were coasting into Whilhelmhaven on fumes with our IIA it appears the slide out readings were accurate for fuel remaining.
OUTSTANDING

6.The NLOL and the NPTR are the same ship.
OUTSTANDING
Solution: NPTR is by Serg, the NLOL I have No Bloody idea. It looks like its just been renamed and cloned. Hell it even has the same number and type of skins !I'm going to do a replacement in the campaign files from NLOL to PTR and delete the NLOL altogether. -Cdre Gibs

7. Slovakian aircraft graphics use historically inaccurate graphics.
SOLVED
Solution: There appears to be a conflict of information as to what graphic is historically accurate. Developer's discression.
- for those who don't like the stock GW file you can dl this fix:
http://www.git.com.au/~voyager_tek/Markings_patch.zip

8. Bad frame rates.
SOLVED
Solution: Default view range is 8km, so you can improve frame rates by using using the default Sea Floor mod in the optional mods and documentation directory of GW. Update your graphics drivers and use the particle effects slider in the SH3 video settings.

9. Crew not responding to orders for course/speed changes and requests to man the deck gun as if they don't have enough people in the relevant compartment.
OUTSTANDING
Hints: User states crew compartment was full of fresh crew members.

10. Ships hard to kill, won't sink.
SOLVED
Hints: Possibly people just getting used to the new flooding to sink damage model. NYGM damage is currently undergoing tweaking. GW 1.0 uses 1.39 NYGM Damage, v2 is under dev at this time.
-Users: Use torps, deck gun won't be effective on an undamaged ship of medium or large size. Aim deck gun below water line and in different areas. Objective is to speed flooding by putting holes into as many different submerged sections as possible.
-user tip: If the Damage (or lack there of) settings are not to your liking I would suggest that you just overwrite the Zones.cfg with the stock 1 for SH3. It will leave all the other GW goodness in and give you the sinkings you deserve. (this turns off the new damage model completely.)
--K.L. provided a patch to increase load time and damage from Deck Gun shells in GW, it will make the DG more effective.
http://files.filefront.com/Stock_Gun_Damage__Reload_for_GWzip/;4936286;;/fileinfo.html


11. No credit given at end of mission, or not credited for sinking a ship.
OUTSTANDING - MULTIPLE REPORTS
Hints:
-When all my ammo and torps was gone i went back to base ( used the quik way to do it) and in my captians log i had 3 merchants and 1 military weasel sunk. But on the patrol report screen it was all 0. No ship sunk,, No patrol done. No renew. No medals, promotions etc. It was filled whit zeros like i never been on a patrol. -Vikinger
- No not save before sinking ship has been credited to your log, there is a SH3 save bug that will lose your sinking ship.

12. Missing weather report.
SOLVED
Solution: Weather report has been moved to Watch Officer. It is only available when surfaced with the Watch Officer on the bridge.

13. Crew fatigues too quickly
SOLVED
Hint:
-using SH3 Commander?
If the answer to this question is yes... you must UN-CHECK/ DE-SELECT "Use fatigue model" option in SH3Cmdr to take advantage of the GW fatigue model properly. Hopefully in days to come SH3 Commander will include the GW fatigue model and using JSCones awesome program will be more intuitive for the user.
-at 64x TC in GW, crew fatigue and recovery STOPS until below 64x TC again.
-default is 8 hour shift before fatigue, optional 24hr is included in docs and optional folder.
-further tweaking required?

14. Can't sink C2 ship with deck gun, therefore can't pass training. Ineffective deck guns.
SOLVED
Solution: Damage model makes largish ships impossible to sink with an 88mm deck gun. Because of this you can't pass the gunnery training mission with GW installed. Pass it without the mod, then install the mod. (Very easy thing to do with JSGME).
-K.L. provided a patch to increase load time and damage from Deck Gun shells in GW, it will make the DG more effective.
http://files.filefront.com/Stock_Gun_Damage__Reload_for_GWzip/;4936286;;/fileinfo.html
-See problem 10.

15. No binocular crosshairs?
SOLVED
Solution: It is an intended effect of the GW mod. No damn croshairs in optics that didn't really have them!

16. Periscope red overlay misaligned.
SOLVED
Solution: When viewing through the periscope at night, the red layer seems to be slightly misaligned revealing the layer used in daytime. I took a screenshoot that shows what I'm talking about. You can see it at the top and right edges of the screen. It is harder to see in the screenshot than in the game. This is a stock SH3 behaviour, nothing can be done about it.

17. Clock ticking in cabin too loud.
SOLVED
Solution: Will be fixed in future release. For now you can edit ./data/sound/clock.wav with Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ or Window's Sound Recorder and make it more quiet. Or download a fix here: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=475764#475764

18. Funnel Smoke not coming out of stacks on ship.
OUTSTANDING
Solution: Some of the origins of the smoke graphics coming out of smoke stacks is misaligned. eg. http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img2332006182572509xb.jpgThis is in the stock game, and might be able to be fixed if anyone gets around to it. I'll post links if I see them.

19. Can I remove mines/subnets from the game?
SOLVED
Solution: data\Campaigns\Campaign\GW_nominefield_Campaign_SC R.mis
-Rename or delete campaign_scr.mis, then rename GW_nominefield_Campaign_SCR.mis to campaign_scr.mis. This version only removes mines from friendly harbours, if you want to remove all mines (and optionally also all anti-submarine net) read this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50173

20. Crew reporting heavy flooding repeatedly.
OUTSTANDING
Note: Crew reports heavy flooding many times (50x). Reported by mulitple people.

21. Sonarman reports stationary targets?
OUTSTANDING
Note: During my latest harbor raid (quite successful I might add Arrgh! ), my sonarman was able to detect via hydrophone stationary ships. I don't remember that happening before. Was the hydrophone sensitivity increased? Reported by other user as stock SH3 behaviour.

22. Weather reports inaccurate.
OUTSTANDING
Note: I've asked my WO for weather report and the reply was...
Clouds Overcast, Precipitations None, Fog Heavy, Wind Speed 15 meters per second, direction 158

23. Crashes around Stornoway.
SOLVED
Note: Umm Guys, I think you have a problem with the LND layer. I keep getting CTD's every time I'm to the west of Loch Ewe near that new base (IIRC its call Stornoway?).
I decided to check the Campaign files, see if I could find the cause of the CTD's. So we crank up the trusty Mission editor to have a look see. The SCR open's fine, the RND opens fine (My GOD what a mess ), But do you think that bloody LND layer will open, HELL NO! Every time I try, the Mission Editor ALSO CTD's.
Solution: corrupted file?

24. Not applicable verbal response to order.
OUTSTANDING
-There is an 'bug' with the sound files. When I issue an order, I get a 'Preparing a solution for a stern shoot' type response after the correct verbal response. It happens right when I get picked up by the DD while I am submerged.
-files I added from "More sounds by Hoshi" are causing the problem as they re-assign priority for different verbal crew responses in an effort to re-enable some broken ones. -K.L.

25. Can see parts of officer in front of my position on the bridge when using binoculars.
OUTSTANDING
due to magnification change in GW. Will fix permanently in next GW release.
temporary fix: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50341

[vodkajello]

I just did the gunery training mission and saw these low res textures in the sonar booth.

The speed and hydrophone gage are definitely low res. I think the textures are missing.

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=114627911&size=o

[JonZ]

I just did the gunery training mission and saw these low res textures in the sonar booth.

The speed and hydrophone gage are definitely low res. I think the textures are missing.

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=114627911&size=o


Not only that, their shadows on my Draggable chrono and the clipboard are white grey and opaque, same thing with the navigation bar :doh: wth...

[Sir Big Jugs]

Type XXI engine rooms must be filled over the green bar to get the sub moving at all.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Type XXI engine rooms must be filled over the green bar to get the sub moving at all.

Rubini and I just double checked for the problem you suggested with the Type XXI movement in single missions.

Our test completed yesterday revealed that the Type XXI U-boat in single missions DOES MOVE NORMALLY both surfaced and submerged with the crew assigned.

[Sir Big Jugs]

:-?

I've tried about 20 times, all single missions and all XXI variants, restarting the game every now and then! It doesn't work here!

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I just did the gunery training mission and saw these low res textures in the sonar booth.

The speed and hydrophone gage are definitely low res. I think the textures are missing.

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=114627911&size=o


Not only that, their shadows on my Draggable chrono and the clipboard are white grey and opaque, same thing with the navigation bar :doh: wth...

Vodkajello,

I will check on that when things die down a little... putting it on my list.

Not only that, their shadows on my Draggable chrono and the clipboard are white grey and opaque, same thing with the navigation bar :doh: wth...

At the moment my impression of that problem is that it is video driver related.

I will look into this further.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Jonz,

The Chrono and clipboard look fine on my DL'd copy of GW. Did you forget to DL one of the 6 GW portions?

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/KptLehmann/NM1.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/KptLehmann/AS1.jpg

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Vodkajello, thanks for opening this thread. :up: Things have been crazy as you can imagine.

Hopefully too when a few more people get things running smoothly on their end... they'll help answer questions here too.

[JonZ]

Jonz,

The Chrono and clipboard look fine on my DL'd copy of GW. Did you forget to DL one of the 6 GW portions?


Sorry, I was refering to the screenshot, not ingame :nope:

I didn't download GW yet (too busy fixing IuB!)

But yeah, it can be a driver issue.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Jonz,

The Chrono and clipboard look fine on my DL'd copy of GW. Did you forget to DL one of the 6 GW portions?


Sorry, I was refering to the screenshot, not ingame :nope:

I didn't download GW yet (too busy fixing IuB!)

But yeah, it can be a driver issue.

Oh, sorry about that mate. LOL I totally understand about being too busy.

That is a sexy chrono though! Thanks again. :up: :up: :up:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I just did the gunery training mission and saw these low res textures in the sonar booth.

The speed and hydrophone gage are definitely low res. I think the textures are missing.

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=114627911&size=o

Checking now... be right back.

[mkubani]

Bug:

- SMALL TRAWLER - this small thingy is indestructionable. For some reason all shells and torpedoes go right through it like it was not there. Is it missing some collision or damage model?

BTW, thank you GW for a great mod.

[JonZ]

Jonz,

The Chrono and clipboard look fine on my DL'd copy of GW. Did you forget to DL one of the 6 GW portions?


Sorry, I was refering to the screenshot, not ingame :nope:

I didn't download GW yet (too busy fixing IuB!)

But yeah, it can be a driver issue.

Oh, sorry about that mate. LOL I totally understand about being too busy.

That is a sexy chrono though! Thanks again. :up: :up: :up:

I hope trying the mod soon. I am uploading my patch for IuB right now and release it as soon it all mirrored. Once released, more jobs awaiting me, hopes not :nope:

:cool:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Yes Mr. Jonz... the work is never ending it seems.

Someday though... we'll get to sail SH3 and just write up some patrol reports aye?

I can't wait.

... but until then.... they're pushing us back out to sea my friend! :arrgh!:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

@ Vodkajello

Sorry this took so long. It appears to me that you are missing part of the GW download

I DL'd the same version you guys did from Terrapin's site this morning and re-installed as per my own readme...

Hydrophone graphics look like hi-res to me... see below (SS taken about 10 minutes ago)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f117/KptLehmann/GWHydroVIIC.jpg

[raymond6751]

I downloaded GW from Realsimulation site, followed the install instructions, and loading it activated the copy protection that Ubi put in and hung my system twice. Never happened before.

When I renamed the folder and returned to my previous SH3 folder, previously renamed, all was fine.

Something in the data folder caused the problem. Any other suggestion would be appreciated.

[Ping Jockey]

Have tried to install GW both ways listed in the read me and it doesn't work? I see the folders in the SH3 root dir but the game looks and sounds the same. This to a clean copy of SH3 1.4b Anyone have any ideas???? :hmm: HELP!!!!!!

[vodkajello]

I know that this thread will be helpful in sorting things out as issues come up.

Do you know which part that graphic is in? I don't want to dl the all 6 again.

Thanks for looking into that problem.

I'll let you know if the problem repairs itself with a reinstall.

[VonHelsching]

Type XXI engine rooms must be filled over the green bar to get the sub moving at all.

CS,


I believe this has something to do with a crew fatigue model (usually this bug appears with Advanced Holywood Damage). Change from SH3cdr to "no fatigue", delete any [compartment] references to /sh3cdr/cfg/Medals and renown.cfg. and see what happens.

[Sir Big Jugs]

Type XXI engine rooms must be filled over the green bar to get the sub moving at all.

CS,


I believe this has something to do with a crew fatigue model (usually this bug appears with Advanced Holywood Damage). Change from SH3cdr to "no fatigue", delete any [compartment] references to /sh3cdr/cfg/Medals and renown.cfg. and see what happens.

Thanks, I'll try that out when I get home again tonight, right now 07:40 in the morning and I'm in a bit of a hurry.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I'll say it again about the Type XXI.

ChokerSandwich is using a BETA of GW... not the final release.

CS... you need to DL the final version from Terrapin's site, buddy.
(Take away all the old stuff and put in the new stuff with JGSME this time okay?)

There is NO bug relating to the Type XXI movement surfaced or submerged unless you are using another fatigue mod which the GW team is not responsible for.

This has been cross checked by other GW Dev team members.

To all: I will be on duty for 24 hours very soon. I know there are questions still un-answered. I will get to them as soon as I can.
Please bear with me. I am required in real life to be at the station for many long hours every week and am away from internet access.
(24 hours every third day / 120 hours every two weeks.) Also since we are short-handed I'll have to work a couple extra shifts in the coming days.

Cheers all! :up:

[mkubani]

Kapt. Lehman,

Please check that small trawler. It is impossible to sink it. Thank you.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I will when I get back from work and after a little sleep on Tuesday.

[mkubani]

:) Thanks for the hard work!

BTW, I encountered this error with the small armored trawler while doing the Naval Academy - Convoy attack. I sunk the first destroyer with no problem, but could do no harm to the trawler at all.

[Syxx_Killer]

Yep, there is definately something hinky going on with that armed trawler. I probably would have never noticed it, as I never attack those little buggers. They are just not worth it, especially when you can outrun them if they chase you. Anyway, I loaded the convoy training mission as was already said. I fired torpedo after torpedo at it and they either didn't explode with magenetic fuse or they ran right through the model. I then surfaced and shot at it with the deck gun and AA gun. The bullets passed harmlessly through. As a final test I tried to ram it and sailed right through the model. :88)

[JonZ]

Yep, there is definately something hinky going on with that armed trawler. I probably would have never noticed it, as I never attack those little buggers. They are just not worth it, especially when you can outrun them if they chase you. Anyway, I loaded the convoy training mission as was already said. I fired torpedo after torpedo at it and they either didn't explode with magenetic fuse or they ran right through the model. I then surfaced and shot at it with the deck gun and AA gun. The bullets passed harmlessly through. As a final test I tried to ram it and sailed right through the model. :88)


Without having played the GW pack yet, I suspect the zone.cfg file or the zon file. I had similar behaviors on cargo ship when their turrets were incredibly hard to destroy, even set the deck gun to 0 delay with SHCmdr and took me forever to destroy a simple antena.

I revised the zone.cfg under the cargo item sections and noticed the HP of certain of these items were almost tripled. I reduced them back to stock Sh3 and now the damages are relatively good now without lowering the difficulty to sink the ship.

I don't know for the tawlers, I can't remember if they have any relative HP in the zone.cfg (new escorts??). Or maybe it a simple mistake made in the Tawlers .zon file.

With that said, I can't remember when I sank a Tawler, torpedo waste ;)

[Syxx_Killer]

I'm not sure how to look at the zon file for the trawler. Would you be able to tell from the zones.cfg if there is a problem? Here are the vales for the New Escort section from the stock SH3 zones file.


;************************************************* ******
;NEW ESCORT
;************************************************* ******

[NEEngineRoom]
Category=Engines Room
Multiplier=5.0
Flotability=1.0
HitPoints=50
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.3
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=0.05
FloodingTime=120
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=300

[NEKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=5.0
Flotability=45.0
HitPoints=120
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.99
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=0.05
FloodingTime=120
CargoType=None

[NEFlotMain]
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=25.0
HitPoints=100
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.30
Critical=No
FloodingTime=60
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=32

[NEFlotShow]
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=10.0
HitPoints=100
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.30
Critical=No
FloodingTime=60
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=32

[NEFlotUpper]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=20.00
HitPoints=10
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.01
Critical=No
FloodingTime=6
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=1

[NEFuelBunker]
Category=Fuel Bunkers
Multiplier=5.000000
Flotability=10.000000
HitPoints=50
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=0.05
FloodingTime=80.0
CargoType=Fuel

[NEFloodF]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=35.000000
HitPoints=60
Destructible=No
Armor Level=100
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
FloodingTime=45.999996
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=4

[NEFloodB]
Multiplier=1.000000
Flotability=35.000000
HitPoints=60
Destructible=No
Armor Level=100
Critic Flotation=0.300000
Critical=No
FloodingTime=45.999996
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=4

Here are the figures from the GW zones file.

;************************************************* ******
;NEW ESCORT
;[NEEngineRoom] [NEFlotMain] Crash Depth=11
;[NEFlotShow] Crash Depth=13
;************************************************* ******

[NEEngineRoom]
Category=Engines Room
Multiplier=2.0
Flotability=30.0
HitPoints=240
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20.0
Critic Flotation=0.30
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=0.1
FloodingTime=300
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=11

[NEKeel]
Category=Keel
Multiplier=5.0
Flotability=0.0
HitPoints=240
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.99
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=0.50
FloodingTime=600
CargoType=None

[NEFlotMain]
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=8.0
HitPoints=240
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20.0
Critic Flotation=0.30
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=0.40
FloodingTime=600
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=11

[NEFlotShow]
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=5.0
HitPoints=240
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20.0
Critic Flotation=0.30
Critical=No
FloodingTime=600
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=13

[NEFlotUpper]
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=20.0
HitPoints=10
Destructible=No
Armor Level=-1
Critic Flotation=0.01
Critical=No
FloodingTime=60
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=1

[NEFuelBunker]
Category=Fuel Bunkers
Multiplier=5.0
Flotability=15.0
HitPoints=240
Destructible=No
Armor Level=20.0
Critic Flotation=0.62
Critical=Yes
Critical Chance=0.20
FloodingTime=600
CargoType=Fuel
Crash Depth=13

[NEFloodF]
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=35.0
HitPoints=60
Destructible=No
Armor Level=100
Critic Flotation=0.30
Critical=No
FloodingTime=420
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=4

[NEFloodB]
Multiplier=1.0
Flotability=35.0
HitPoints=60
Destructible=No
Armor Level=100
Critic Flotation=0.30
Critical=No
FloodingTime=240
CargoType=None
Crash Depth=4

[mkubani]

Hello Grey Wulf team,

I found another minor inconsistency, you may want to fix. A browsed through Markings folder and found two things I want to point out:

1. You have an incorrect Slovak marking there. The one you have now is the current marking of Slovakia. The historically correct one that was used during WW2 is the following:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/s/sk_roun2.gif

2. Then there is Czechia marking. Well, I am not sure if these files are used only for airplanes, but if yes, then there should be no Czechia marking. Czech part of Czechoslovakia was occupied in early 1939, so if you can not remove the Czech marking, I suggest overwriting it with the German one. There were no Czech planes flying in WW2.

Just trying to be helpful. ;)

[Cdre Gibs]

The AC Markings Mod was made by me. The only information I could find at the time for Slovakia was from here:

http://cocardes.monde.online.fr/v2html/en/pays/slovaquie.html

of interest is that they state Slovakia came into being on the 1st of January 1993. So technicaly if that IS correct it shouldn't even be in the game. But since the country was added by Serg in his Flag mod and uses the SAME flag as on that site, I just matched the Roundel.

If it bugs you that much its not hard to fix, use the source image you have for your version and change the TGA.

Also the Czechia Roundel has the same issue :

http://cocardes.monde.online.fr/v2html/en/pays/tchecoslovaquie.html
http://cocardes.monde.online.fr/v2html/en/pays/tchequie.html

Note the date listed. Again if you cant live with it, change it.

[JonZ]

I'm not sure how to look at the zon file for the trawler. Would you be able to tell from the zones.cfg if there is a problem? Here are the vales for the New Escort section from the stock SH3 zones file.

*snip*



There's a lot of tweaking values I can't be certain of anything, and the HPs and flooding time have been drastically increase in some parts, I wouldn't touch these for the moments because it may be part of a mod settings (like NYGM or whatever), and may have an impact on other ships as well. Maybe the best thing would be to also check the .zon values on this ship.

If there's something I would do, I would first try these setting on a stock SH3 or in a stable Mod. If the problem replicate, then the problem lies in these settings. If not, it elsewhere.

[Syxx_Killer]

If there's something I would do, I would first try these setting on a stock SH3 or in a stable Mod. If the problem replicate, then the problem lies in these settings. If not, it elsewhere.

Ok, I did a quick test. I have a stock SH3 data folder for backup purposes. I made a backup of the zones file from that and tested the GW values in it. I went back to the convoy training mission and attacked the armed trawler. It was hit and sunk, so the problem lies somewhere else.

[JonZ]

Ok, then maybe it in the tawler .zon.... or a combo of circumstances that create chaos :/

[Syxx_Killer]

The problem definately lies within the zon file for the armed trawler. I switched back to the GW data folder, but used the stock SH3 trawler zon instead. The trawler was successfully attacked and sunk.

[JonZ]

The problem definately lies within the zon file for the armed trawler. I switched back to the GW data folder, but used the stock SH3 trawler zon instead. The trawler was successfully attacked and sunk.

That's a good sign :up:

[Razman23]

OK, here is a 'my dumb arse' problem. I was moving the map with the shipping routes around (on the navigation screen) and I accidently let go while the map was behind the officers icons in the lower left. Now I cant grab the map to move it. Is it stuck there for life or will it reset to back to where it was originally when I start a new patrol?

[Syxx_Killer]

It should revert to normal position. I move the maps around all the time and they always go back to normal.

[zzsteven]

Small minor errata: the fuel guages in the CE's report doesn't jive the slide out report. Also as we were coasting into Whilhelmhaven on fumes with our IIA it appears the slide out readings were accurate for fuel remaining.

zz

[Cdre Gibs]

The NLOL and the NPTR are the same ship. NPTR is by Serg, the NLOL I have No Bloody idea. It looks like its just been renamed and cloned. Hell it even has the same number and type of skins !

I'm going to do a replacement in the campaign files from NLOL to PTR and delete the NLOL altogether.

Ohh btw, if its ment to be an old liner (NLOL) why was it armed in the equipment file just like the Aux Cruiser ?

[JonZ]

Im browsing throught scene.dat file. I can't determine what is the initial visual range of GW? is it 8km or 16Km?

I can't know, and if I compare the initial scene.dat file with the modifiers inside the MODS folder, it the newest (13th jan 2006 vs november 4th) Something's seems not to be right here...

just to let you know.

JonZ

[Gizzmoe]

Im browsing throught scene.dat file. I can't determine what is the initial visual range of GW? is it 8km or 16Km?

The GW default is 8km.

[Observer]

Doesn't this thread belong in the Mods forum?

[Tikigod]

Without having played the GW pack yet, I suspect the zone.cfg file or the zon file. I had similar behaviors on cargo ship when their turrets were incredibly hard to destroy, even set the deck gun to 0 delay with SHCmdr and took me forever to destroy a simple antena.



I remember the cargo sliding into the ocean with stock sh3....like boxes and other objects sometimes rolled off decks and fell into ocean during a sinking....do .zon files change this behavior at all? or was it changed with latest ubi patches? because I haven't seen this behavior in awhile....its like everything stays attached to the decks now....when it used to be fun shooting the items and watching them fall off the ships...even boxes were easy to destroy now they are vitually indestructible

[mkubani]

The AC Markings Mod was made by me. The only information I could find at the time for Slovakia was from here:

http://cocardes.monde.online.fr/v2html/en/pays/slovaquie.html

of interest is that they state Slovakia came into being on the 1st of January 1993. So technicaly if that IS correct it shouldn't even be in the game. But since the country was added by Serg in his Flag mod and uses the SAME flag as on that site, I just matched the Roundel.

If it bugs you that much its not hard to fix, use the source image you have for your version and change the TGA.

Also the Czechia Roundel has the same issue :

http://cocardes.monde.online.fr/v2html/en/pays/tchecoslovaquie.html
http://cocardes.monde.online.fr/v2html/en/pays/tchequie.html

Note the date listed. Again if you cant live with it, change it.

Sorry Gibs, but I really see no reason for your attitude. I just tried to be helpful and point out to GW team any bugs I find, no matter how significant or insignificant those are. And yes, I have enough skills to change these couple files for myself, but I thought GW guys might be interested to change it for everyone in their future patch.

Anyway, the first state of Slovakia existed between 1939-1945 and was a German ally. Slovak Bf 109s were active around Black Sea area from winter 1942 till fall 1943. Both Czechia and Slovakia operated no naval vessels at all during WW2. Maybe GWs will find this info helpful.

[Cdre Gibs]

errr what attiitude. I just said if you dont like it, change it. Its no biggy. Its not like its set in concrete!

I have no true information, as I stated to go by, you just saying so is not enough. And as I said, all I could find, I have given you the links for. This by no means makes it correct, just that its the only information I have so thats what I go by. This also lines up with whats in the Flag Mod (not made by me) so if it does need to be corrected so will the Flag Mod. But I will need more than just your say so.

I did search for WWII Roundel info, but Google just hates me. :)

(ohh and dont try reading between the lines and think you know what I'm feeling or what my attitude is, you will always be wrong. Basicaly I just couldn't be botherd giving you a long winded reply, like I now had to.)

[jericho791]

I don't know if anyone else experienced this problem, but I was having some very bad frame rates. I don't know why, but I kicked up my refresh rate for my monitor and direct draw to 75 hz. Seems fine now.

Puzzleing though

Dell XPS 400
3.0 ghz Intel Pentium D
256MB ATI Radeon PCI EXPRESS VID CARD
800 HZ FSB
512 MB RAM

Any one have any thoughts, other than the refresh rate. I don't think I should have any trouble with graphics with my system regardless of the refresh rate. :hmm:

[Vikinger]

Hi and thx for a great work on the GW mod.

Altough there is some bugs in it i would like to adress.

I got same problem whit the "ghostship" The Trawler like some other here.

On my first patrol, carrier. I had a few issues when i tryed to move crew to the deckgun or the AA gun. Even if it was manned it said: Not enough crew to man the guns.

I had to switch crew severly times before it worked.

I had some problem when i tryed to alter the speed or dive etc. No command worked for me. It was like i didnt have enough crew in disel engine room. The sub was a sitting duck.
And i desperatly clicked around and changed crew etc suddenly it worked. There was full of crew from the start in the disel room and they was not fatigued.

I had maor problem to sink a W&v destroyer of aprox 1100 tonnage. 3 torps i had to use to sink that ship. Even thou it was a fun fight it seamed that the torps are way to underpowered or the ships have increased thier hull by 100 inch of pure panzar steel. :D

Also to sink a meduim merchant that had got 3 torps in his chest i tryed to finish him of whit the deckgun. I had to unload every single shell i had on that boat and it still didnt want to sink.

I waited over 6 hours game time at the spot but it remained floating.

When all my ammo and torps was gone i went back to base ( used the quik way to do it) and in my captians log i had 3 merchants and 1 military weasel sunk.

But on the patrol report screen it was all 0. No ship sunk,, No patrol done. No renew. No medals, promotions etc.
It was filled whit zeros like i never been on a patrol.

I just wanted to point out thos "bugs" or flaws and hope you can look over it .

But thx again for a great mod guys. A little more tweaking and it would be perfect :)

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Doesn't this thread belong in the Mods forum?

It probably does, and I'm sure Gizzmoe has thought the same thing.

I wonder if it might be okay to leave it here for a couple-three days though.

I think that maybe a lot of people who post here may not post on or visit the mods workshop. (It can certainly make a new guy feel overwhelmed :D)

If you haven't registered for the Mods Workshop, you really need to. Its a great place to get help. (So is this place, but each forum has its defined purpose as Observer has pointed out.)

I'll be back after a few hours sleep to answer/address as many questions as I can.

[Gizzmoe]

It probably does, and I'm sure Gizzmoe has thought the same thing.

Not really. :) I didn´t move it because I think it´s perfect here, all the non-registered visitors can read it.

[mkubani]

Just a quick question about the ship damage mod that comes with GW. Is it ok to unload 100 shells into C2 to see it still floating 6 hours later? I shot the shells below the waterline and spreading it from the back to the front of the ship. Was it really that hard to sink a cargo ship? Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of having the ship sunk with flooding, but shouldn't it take less shells to do so? Thanks.

[JCWolf]

Ok i have a problem, game runs fine , brilliante testing as this results, a superb Mod...


However just came across a strange situation , after sinking to merchante ships, with mi Small and hugly Tipe IIB on mi first patrol, the guys from torps. room don't reload the torpedo tubes again, insted the torpedos stay in Qeue for loading and dont load, at least until i saved the game to stop playing, and that was in game time, around a full day...

Is this ok or it's just because of that optional Mod For Torps tracking? :rock: :rock: :rock:

Thanks for any atention on this mather...

And also i hope nobody eats mi alive for this!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Dowly]

You sure you´re not in a silent run? Try a single mission and check if the problem is still there in VII boat. :ping:

[JCWolf]

You sure you´re not in a silent run? Try a single mission and check if the problem is still there in VII boat. :ping:

No ...not in silent running didn't need it yet! :rock: :up:

But didn't try single mission also!!!! :hmm:


Gona check after and will come back with more of mi brilliant weard questions!!! :rotfl:

But it's truthly anoying, cause I have the 3 torp, ready and 2 in qeue for loading for a all day(Game) allredy... :rock: :up:

[Mick520]

You sure you´re not in a silent run? Try a single mission and check if the problem is still there in VII boat. :ping:

No ...not in silent running didn't need it yet! :rock: :up:

But didn't try single mission also!!!! :hmm:


Gona check after and will come back with more of mi brilliant weard questions!!! :rotfl:

But it's truthly anoying, cause I have the 3 torp, ready and 2 in qeue for loading for a all day(Game) allredy... :rock: :up:

You just need more men in the torpedo compartment. I had the exact same problem.

[ax1911]

Is there any MOD to change underwater visibility in GW? ( I want it very clear!) Do i need to change some textures?? Or something in .cfg files? I dont want to use SH3 commander to change water brightness coz it messed my previous IUB installation..

Pls help t3h n00b! :roll:

[Fangschuss]

Come on GW Team

I´m 2 week´s on partol Feb´42 near Gibraltar PQ CG

run at max. TC128, never see any airplane !!! :nope:

only 3 ships sighted and all neutral (Brasil) !!! :damn:

the crew moral is completely down !!! :down:

[JCWolf]

You sure you´re not in a silent run? Try a single mission and check if the problem is still there in VII boat. :ping:

No ...not in silent running didn't need it yet! :rock: :up:

But didn't try single mission also!!!! :hmm:


Gona check after and will come back with more of mi brilliant weard questions!!! :rotfl:

But it's truthly anoying, cause I have the 3 torp, ready and 2 in qeue for loading for a all day(Game) allredy... :rock: :up:

You just need more men in the torpedo compartment. I had the exact same problem.


It's possible but i have no more crew to put there, and there are 5 saylors and 3 P. Offic. in there, cause IIB just haves forw. Tubs. 3 of them actually...To had anymore crew there i've got to take man from conning tower and diesel engines Depart. :rock: :rock:

[zzsteven]

Submerge the boat and put your watch crew in there. It's what I had to do.

zz

[donut]

Gray Wolves,produced:The most enhanced mod.for the community.

A NEW :/\rlz: THANK YOU ALL! For consentrated,focused effort,& Alapha release.
QUESTIONS:
#1 Where are my binoculars,wo/crosshairs.This Q?,maybe absentminded of me?

#2 Capt.wants weather report,before surfacing.

#3 WO.,to run"O"& Attack Scopes, :up: :down: would be a nice feature.

#4 Harbors: At Brunsbuettel Rendsburg,& Kiel-Holtenau;without piers,causeing hazzard to navagation.Houses,would be a nice touch also. Is this a Mod yet? Link please.

[JCWolf]

Submerge the boat and put your watch crew in there. It's what I had to do.

zz


I've tested it and the results were the same look to the screenshots, and check the torps and the time diference:
Before an atack on a merchante...
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6526/22576cs.jpg

And after that i had to return base....No torps to fire!
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/3695/23596zb.jpg


Run the boat surfaced for aroud 3 hours and thats the result nobody moves to get the F.... torps on the tubes! :rock: :up:

Another thing that is anoying me is the tierd and how fast they get tierd, man this guys are sleeping all the time, they loose endurance fastest as i drink a glass of coke and to recover it takes a all F....ing
week asleep....

This is not very nice if you have to watch your crew members going to bed when you're surronded by Destroyers... :o :doh:

I've got to change this 24 hours shifts rotation or whatever to call this, and the torps even tryed to reload them manualy just don't go, not possible... :rock: :arrgh!:

I feel like kiling them all! :damn: :damn: :damn:
Sleeping beautys! :damn: :damn: :rock:

Do no what to do???!!! any sudjestions on this will be most wellcome! :up:

[JonZ]

Wasn't this a feature that if you run the game below a certain TC (ie x128), the crew will rest/fatigue?

I did not read the docs but it from GouldGJ, so I assume it the same principle of Hollywood Damage fatigue model.

[JCWolf]

Wasn't this a feature that if you run the game below a certain TC (ie x128), the crew will rest/fatigue?

I did not read the docs but it from GouldGJ, so I assume it the same principle of Hollywood Damage fatigue model.



:o :o Excuse me???? :o

:o What???? :o

Explain that to me Pls.!!! :damn: :damn: :up:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

JC Wolf I have answered your fatigue question in the GW sticky thread page 6 in the mods workshop. :yep:

IMPORTANT!!! :ping:

Also, at 64x TC in GW, crew fatigue and recovery STOPS until below 64x TC again.

[vodkajello]

With the GW mod loaded you can't kill the medium cargo ship in the gunnery training course. I emptied my entire payload of 88 ammo into that thing, didn't put him down.

Has the armed trawler 'invincibility' bug been confirmed by a GW dev?

My problem with the low res textures was fixed by redownloading and installing GW over another fresh SH3 install. I don't know how it screwed up the first time. No corrupted zips were reported. So no missing files there! Problem solved.

[vodkajello]

K.L. would you like me to keep a tally of unresolved issues from this thread in the first post?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

K.L. would you like me to keep a tally of unresolved issues from this thread in the first post?

What I would prefer is a list of resolved problems so we can refer visitors to them. :yep: :up:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

HEY, KPT. LEHMANN!!! HOW COME THAT SHIP WON'T SINK!!!

Read on... very important!

GW incorporates the NYGM ship damage model beta 0.1.39
It is a work of GENIUS on Teddy Barr's and the NYGM team
efforts. Ships now sink by flooding and take varying times to
sink. Sometimes this means 15 minutes, sometimes this means
hours.

It also removes the certainty of knowing whether or not you
have caused enough damage to sink a vessel... this is a good
thing and can cause all kinds of interesting situations!!!

It is also still a work in progress and things will get better
given a little time.

If I need to I will reduce hit-points and create a patch that
will be included in the first GW Update. This would be a
"bandage" of sorts that for certain ships would mean basically
nullifying the NYGM damage model, but for most ships this will
be unecessary.

The GW Team will stay up to date with the NYGM ship damage
model inasfar as is possible and as long as the GW mod is
supported.

No ship is "unsinkable" in GW or in the NYGM ship damage
models. Some ships like the small tanker are very hard to sink
at the moment. The hit points for all vessels in GW have been
raised in line with the NYGM ship damage model. Once again I
will review the .zon files before releaseing an update patch
for GW.

Also, in line with realistic modelling aims GW has reduced the
damage potential of the deck guns which is explained below.

Armor piercing rounds have been removed from the GW mod as our
research indicates that typically the only type of round
carried by the U-boats was "HE" or "High-Explosive."

Furthermore, the crew when ordered to the deck gun takes time
to load the first shell... instead of the instant BANG you got
in stock SH3.

A little compromise we made too was including 20 starshell
lumination rounds per boat and extended the range of the
starshell closer to the range of a standard HE round. In real
life you can shoot one just as far as the other... I've done
it.

A side effect of this is found in the Academy Naval Artillery
missions. You don't have enough ammunition to pass the test.
This was a trade-off that may get better with the GW update in
a few weeks. (If I come up with a good temporary band-aid for
this problem I will upload it for everyone early.)

There has been no other mod that has even approached the
sinking time issues that Teddy Barr and the NYGM team are
successfully addressing. I am CERTAIN that many many hours
went into its development. Like Captain America's gauge fix
mod, using it for the sake of common sense becomes mandatory
in light of the utterly fake way that ships sink in stock SH3.
We ditched our own entire custom ship damage model and much
hard work as a result.

Even more... the NYGM ship damage mod
in my opinion has successfully NULLIFIED the deck-gun reload
time debate by making it a matter of ammunition/damage output
totality instead of any worry of posessing an "uber" deck gun.

I have been a proponent of this for some time and have been
chastised by someone before who completely dismissed my seven
years of artillery and heavy weapons experience as totally
irrelevant. Though I was not a U-Boat deck gunner myself,
general artillery concepts DO apply!

Also,you must inderstand that U-boat deck guns are LIGHT
artillery weapons. I think that people in general do not
fully understand what it would mean to shoot-up a great big
ship with what amounts to a pop-gun. (22 rifle versus
floating garbage can if you will... it will sink but will take
some time to do so.)

In GW and NYGM you really need to consider the deck gun to be
a SUPPLEMENTAL weapon used to sink small vessels and/or assist in sinking ships that have been damaged by torpedos already.
(Make sure you aim below the waterline... hits above the
waterline will reduce the hit points of the vessel... but not
assist in its "rate of sink" or "floatability.")

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Come on GW Team

I´m 2 week´s on partol Feb´42 near Gibraltar PQ CG

run at max. TC128, never see any airplane !!! :nope:

only 3 ships sighted and all neutral (Brasil) !!! :damn:

the crew moral is completely down !!! :down:

If you are using the 24 hour fatigue mod, try switching back to the default GW 8 hour fatigue mod.

Are you doing hydrophone checks? In 1942, single merchant traffic drops considerably. You have to actually hunt to find them. This is a matter of historic accuracy.

Regarding aircraft attacks... you may just be getting lucky. Things are much worse in 1943 as well. 1942 was the year of transition from being the hunter... to being the hunted.

If you are using SH3 Commander, leave the fatigue model option UN-CHECKED to use the GW default 8 hour fatigue mod.

[Fangschuss]

Thx for reply

Using Sh3-Commander , fatigue unchecked, runing the default GW 8 hours fatigue

Are you doing hydrophone checks? In 1942, single merchant traffic drops considerably. You have to actually hunt to find them.

Yes i now, make every 6 hours hydrophone checks so i found the
4 Neutral ship :hmm:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Gray Wolves,produced:The most enhanced mod.for the community.

A NEW :/\rlz: THANK YOU ALL! For consentrated,focused effort,& Alapha release.
QUESTIONS:
#1 Where are my binoculars,wo/crosshairs.This Q?,maybe absentminded of me?

#2 Capt.wants weather report,before surfacing.

#3 WO.,to run"O"& Attack Scopes, :up: :down: would be a nice feature.

#4 Harbors: At Brunsbuettel Rendsburg,& Kiel-Holtenau;without piers,causeing hazzard to navagation.Houses,would be a nice touch also. Is this a Mod yet? Link please.

I will answer as best as I can, I am having difficulty understanding part of your post. :oops:

1) Regarding binocular crosshairs... there should not be crosshairs in your binoculars in GW. If you have crosshairs present... You have either missed downloading one of the 6 GW portions or you have installed a mod over GW that changes the same file. (1024.cfg) If you have done the latter, you are probably also missing the draggable chronometer, the detailed F1 help screen, and the NaviMap mod.

2) You can't get a weather report under water in GW. You must surface and place your watch officer on the bridge. You will then see that the weather report icon belongs to him. Weather reports that used to be given by the Navigator using the same icon... must be done via the Watch Officer

3) I don't understand your question. I am sorry.

4) I am not familiar with these locations in GW. If I recall correctly, these places have not been modded by us. Maybe Rubini can give a definitive answer to this question.

I hope that helps if only a little bit. :-?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Thx for reply

Using Sh3-Commander , fatigue unchecked, runing the default GW 8 hours fatigue

Are you doing hydrophone checks? In 1942, single merchant traffic drops considerably. You have to actually hunt to find them.

Yes i now, make every 6 hours hydrophone checks so i found the
4 Neutral ship :hmm:

Fangschuss... I believe that this may apply in your case:

1) Regarding binocular crosshairs... there should not be crosshairs in your binoculars in GW. If you have crosshairs present... You have either missed downloading one of the 6 GW portions or you have installed a mod over GW that changes the same file. (1024.cfg) If you have done the latter, you are probably also missing the draggable chronometer, the detailed F1 help screen, and the NaviMap mod.

[donut]

Kpt. Lehmann Sir,I canot find my binoculars view.#3 & #4,were just coments.#2 was suggestion to consider a change.#3 is operational in IUBv1.02 :damn: I sure hope I can learn to explain to this forums expectations,65 & failing still at english,typeing,H&P,distracts my ability to spell.I guess you might say ,I am challenged in this area.

[Einzelganger]

Very happy with the total package as i already mentioned in the other thread but i just have a small question which i hope someone can answer for me.

How can i get back the crosshairs in the UZO/binoculars and restore the hydrophone lines and contact colours on the NAV map to their orginal SHIII values ?

I've been tinkering with it somewhat myself but with little succes so anyone's help would be appreciated.

Brdgs
Einzelganger

[Syxx_Killer]

I didn't notice this before. It is quite subtle. When viewing through the periscope at night, the red layer seems to be slightly misaligned revealing the layer used in daytime. I took a screenshoot that shows what I'm talking about. You can see it at the top and right edges of the screen. It is harder to see in the screenshot than in the game.

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9016/sh3img22320061071460yo.th.jpg (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img22320061071460yo.jpg)

[JonZ]

I didn't notice this before. It is quite subtle. When viewing through the periscope at night, the red layer seems to be slightly misaligned revealing the layer used in daytime. I took a screenshoot that shows what I'm talking about. You can see it at the top and right edges of the screen. It is harder to see in the screenshot than in the game.

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9016/sh3img22320061071460yo.th.jpg (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img22320061071460yo.jpg)

It from stock Sh3. You can't really see it with the default periscope but it there. The bordinstrumente silver round just make a clearer area that make te square mask visible.

[Syxx_Killer]

It from stock Sh3. You can't really see it with the default periscope but it there. The bordinstrumente silver round just make a clearer area that make te square mask visible.

You're right. I never noticed it before. I went through some old screenshots and I did see the same thing. :oops: :oops: :oops:

[JonZ]

By the way, any of you experienced the not credited Cargo sink? Never ran into that bug but it was reported to me in IuB to some occasions, and tought it has something to do with Stock...

[Montbrun]

By the way, any of you experienced the not credited Cargo sink? Never ran into that bug but it was reported to me in IuB to some occasions, and tought it has something to do with Stock...

Once in IUB 1.02, once in IUB 1.03, never in NYGM, and in GW, well, just trying to get them to sink right now....LOL

[JonZ]

By the way, any of you experienced the not credited Cargo sink? Never ran into that bug but it was reported to me in IuB to some occasions, and tought it has something to do with Stock...

Once in IUB 1.02, once in IUB 1.03, never in NYGM, and in GW, well, just trying to get them to sink right now....LOL

:hmm:

[TonnaSWE]

First i must say thx to a great mod , realy apprechiated :) :up:
But now i got some problems with crashes.... the game freezes up and i have to reboot the whole computer.
I know it can be alot of diff things .. tried to install different gfx drivers(ati 9600 xt) etc . updated my soundcard driver .. but no luck yet . Anyone else got problems with alot of crashes ingame with the mod ?

thx
TonnaSWE :arrgh!:

[Syxx_Killer]

The mod runs rock solid for me. I'm not sure what you problem could be. Did you apply all six parts of the mod? Did you apply all six parts to a patched, clean installation of SHIII?

[Mud]

I did a clean install and patched up to 1.4
After 9 hours play time with GW all I can say no problems at all .

Great mod :up:

Win XP
P4 3.4Ghz
1024 ram
Geforce 6600 gt 81.98 drivers

Mud

[andy_311]

Got the thing to work at last,even sorted my fps problem out.
Innstead of installing it via JSME I over wrote the original files (I have a big HD but point haveing the game twice on your HD) I had to replace some file with stock but I can't stand fireing a fish with Control+Enter.
that's the only thing I modded and the sea floor with stock plus that stupid trawler, apart from that great. Apart from installing the no mines campaign_scr mis.and installing it.
I died about 100 km NNW of Southend god knows by what? but my stealth meter was happy. :damn: :damn: You sure you removed all the mines looking in the editor there's still sh*t chancece of going in harbour bashing anywhere with those submet about (well some places) why not make it so those guy's who play it out of the box just getting the feel of the game get an option no mines no subnets?.It suppose to be enjoyable and elusive at the same time. but give the player a choice.
Not everyone wants to play as it was from the start.

[Syxx_Killer]

The SCR file that comes with the mod only removes mines and subnets for friendly harbors. You still have to be careful around enemy harbors. :help:

[TonnaSWE]

The mod runs rock solid for me. I'm not sure what you problem could be. Did you apply all six parts of the mod? Did you apply all six parts to a patched, clean installation of SHIII?

Yes i did a clean install , patched with 1.4 b. Unpacked every part of those rar files to one dir and then moved it to my mods folder in sh3 game folder and run jsme installer .

?? so i dont have a clue whats causing it ..

[andy_311]

The SCR file that comes with the mod only removes mines and subnets for friendly harbors. You still have to be careful around enemy harbors. :help:

I definatly keep that in mind. :D

[Razman23]

My biggest complaint about this mod is from my first patrol.

I found a VERY large convoy and was planning a surface nite attack. Just when I get in position to start picking my targets, I get a loud whooshing noise and a large spray of water off my bow. I turn around and spot a Corvette coming full bore on me!!!!!!! :o

So instead of reaping the rewards, I am now reaping the whirlwind of DCs!!!! :doh:

:up:

[phatmatt]

But now i got some problems with crashes.... the game freezes up and i have to reboot the whole computer.
I know it can be alot of diff things .. tried to install different gfx drivers(ati 9600 xt) etc . updated my soundcard driver .. but no luck yet . Anyone else got problems with alot of crashes ingame with the mod ?

thx
TonnaSWE :arrgh!:

... ATI 9600 XT, if you look here
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50034&start=175
look a bit down look for my post Im getting the same problem as you but it just brings me back to desktop like if I never started the game and get no error messages. And i too have an ATI 9600 XT to be more precise ATI Radeon 9600 XT 256MB. So your not alone my friend. And I never had a CTD with SH3 before ever! And I constantly use mods.

[Mick520]

No Problems what so ever!

Great FPS & no crashes!

System:

WinXP Pro SP2
AMD 64 4000+ San Diego s939
Asus A8N-SLI Delux Motherboard
SATA Maxtor 250 GIG HDD 7200RPM
Winfast PX7800GTX 256MB Forceware 84.21 Drivers
2048 RAM

Maybe those who are experiencing probs should also post their system specs to see if the rest of the community can give you a hand and give
the Grey Wolves Team a rest for a bit.

Great Mod guys!

[Syxx_Killer]

Very happy with the total package as i already mentioned in the other thread but i just have a small question which i hope someone can answer for me.

How can i get back the crosshairs in the UZO/binoculars and restore the hydrophone lines and contact colours on the NAV map to their orginal SHIII values ?

I've been tinkering with it somewhat myself but with little succes so anyone's help would be appreciated.

Brdgs
Einzelganger

Having them be grey gives them that extra element of surprise. :arrgh!: Anyway, I think the TGAs you may be referring to are located in the data/Menu/Gui folder. Those are the only TGAs that I have seen that would imply the map.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Sorry for the absence... was dealing with problem # 1... GW's current state of availability.

Go here for new FileFront links to obtain GW- http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50034

FileFront appears to be running at good speed now.

[vodkajello]

Is there any MOD to change underwater visibility in GW? ( I want it very clear!) Do i need to change some textures?? Or something in .cfg files? I dont want to use SH3 commander to change water brightness coz it messed my previous IUB installation..

Pls help t3h n00b! :roll:

SH3 Commander will do it.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

To all... a little bad news...

... due to job requirements I will be absent for much of the next 4 days and away from internet access. I expect to be back on Monday evening to continue with issue resolution.

I am sorry for any inconvenience.

Vodkajello, thanks for taking up this matter. The help is priceless. :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep: :yep:

Please note that there are new FileFront download links on the 1st post of the GW sticky thread... (This is what I had to baby-sit most of the day.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Is there any MOD to change underwater visibility in GW? ( I want it very clear!) Do i need to change some textures?? Or something in .cfg files? I dont want to use SH3 commander to change water brightness coz it messed my previous IUB installation..

Pls help t3h n00b! :roll:

SH3 Commander will do it.

SH3 Commander is the perfect machine for the job and will not otherwise cause problems for the GW Atmosphere Mods.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Vodkajello... I am pasting your findings in the GW sticky thread in the mods workshop.

There are one or two things I think I can fix pretty quickly when I get back Monday.

I will be in touch! Thanks again mate! :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

[vodkajello]

NP!

Oh yeah, that damn clock is driving me nuts! I've got to go edit that thing before the 'official' fix comes out. bloody clock.wav! time to turn down the tick volume on that thing!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/CaptainHook.jpg

[Einzelganger]

Thanks Syxx_Killer :up:

I've now got my NAV map icons back as they were. As i said i tinkered with it myself already but was perhaps somewhat to careful. Now i copied the orginal files for that folder back with the exception of the files most obviously not involved and it worked.

I can't wait until the weekend when i'll finally have some decent time to play again...

[TonnaSWE]

But now i got some problems with crashes.... the game freezes up and i have to reboot the whole computer.
I know it can be alot of diff things .. tried to install different gfx drivers(ati 9600 xt) etc . updated my soundcard driver .. but no luck yet . Anyone else got problems with alot of crashes ingame with the mod ?

thx
TonnaSWE :arrgh!:

... ATI 9600 XT, if you look here
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50034&start=175
look a bit down look for my post Im getting the same problem as you but it just brings me back to desktop like if I never started the game and get no error messages. And i too have an ATI 9600 XT to be more precise ATI Radeon 9600 XT 256MB. So your not alone my friend. And I never had a CTD with SH3 before ever! And I constantly use mods.



Thx Phatmatt.
Yes i guess its a graphic card issue then.
Time to upgrade the old boat for me then :)

[Syxx_Killer]

What, exactly, has been changed in the armed trawler zon? The reason I'm wondering, is, would it be ok to use the stock zon for the ship until it can be fixed? If I ever run into one, I'd like to be able to defend myself if necessary. :88)

[phatmatt]

Thx Phatmatt.
Yes i guess its a graphic card issue then.
Time to upgrade the old boat for me then :)

Just wait before you do, tonight I will do some more testing and see if it happens again, but before I will do a new clean installation again and patch it up then will test if it crashes. If it does i will try new drivers.

[geralt]

nothing serious but...
bad position of funnel smoke http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img2332006182572509xb.jpg
at La Spezia 1941

[JonZ]

nothing serious but...
bad position of funnel smoke http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sh3img2332006182572509xb.jpg
at La Spezia 1941

Bug been there since stock I believe.

[geralt]

Bug been there since stock I believe.
ok, my fault... I found the SH3 world before few months ago and played stock version for only several days... then I switched to IUB and recently GW, currently have installed both

[DerSchtupmeister]

But now i got some problems with crashes.... the game freezes up and i have to reboot the whole computer.
I know it can be alot of diff things .. tried to install different gfx drivers(ati 9600 xt) etc . updated my soundcard driver .. but no luck yet . Anyone else got problems with alot of crashes ingame with the mod ?

thx
TonnaSWE :arrgh!:

... ATI 9600 XT, if you look here
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50034&start=175
look a bit down look for my post Im getting the same problem as you but it just brings me back to desktop like if I never started the game and get no error messages. And i too have an ATI 9600 XT to be more precise ATI Radeon 9600 XT 256MB. So your not alone my friend. And I never had a CTD with SH3 before ever! And I constantly use mods.



Thx Phatmatt.
Yes i guess its a graphic card issue then.
Time to upgrade the old boat for me then :)

I too have the same card and the same problem. Time for an upgrade ;) Til' then I guess I'll mess around with the optional files :-?

[TonnaSWE]

At last i can run the GW mod without crashes ... so far :).
Tried about 5-6 diff drivers and now found one that feels stable.
One more problem though is the real low fps im getting when i use timecompression leaving the harbour (kiel). Im talking about 2-3 fps ?
Is it normal ? But after a while it gets better and runs ok when i reach about Odense .....

[Syxx_Killer]

Low FPS while using TC when leaving port is normal. All those extra goodies slow it down. My FPS get sucked down the tubes, too, when leaving port while using TC. I have the optional no mines Capaign SCR installed. That also removes the patrolling planes. The planes are cool, but they always run down the TC very quick. That got annoying. I guess, if you want fast FPS while using TC when leaving port, you could always play stock SH3. :dead: :lol:

[TonnaSWE]

Low FPS while using TC when leaving port is normal. All those extra goodies slow it down. My FPS get sucked down the tubes, too, when leaving port while using TC. I have the optional no mines Capaign SCR installed. That also removes the patrolling planes. The planes are cool, but they always run down the TC very quick. That got annoying. I guess, if you want fast FPS while using TC when leaving port, you could always play stock SH3. :dead: :lol:

Thx Killer but hell no i wont go back to the stock game after trying out this great mod!! :)
Great tip there though .. think ill disable those nasty mines and see what happens. mmm by the way where can i find that mod optional no mines Capaign SCR
.. it was not with those optional mods that came with the GW 1.0 mod right ?
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Gizzmoe]

think ill disable those nasty mines and see what happens. mmm by the way where can i find that mod optional no mines Capaign SCR

data\Campaigns\Campaign\GW_nominefield_Campaign_SC R.mis

Rename or delete campaign_scr.mis, then rename GW_nominefield_Campaign_SCR.mis to campaign_scr.mis. This version only removes mines from friendly harbours, if you want to remove all mines (and optionally also all anti-submarine net) read this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50173

[TonnaSWE]

think ill disable those nasty mines and see what happens. mmm by the way where can i find that mod optional no mines Capaign SCR

data\Campaigns\Campaign\GW_nominefield_Campaign_SC R.mis

Rename or delete campaign_scr.mis, then rename GW_nominefield_Campaign_SCR.mis to campaign_scr.mis. This version only removes mines from friendly harbours, if you want to remove all mines (and optionally also all anti-submarine net) read this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50173

Thx Gizzmoe for your quick respond and good explanation! :up:

[Mud]

I can confirm the heavy flooding issue , think I had 50 lines with "we have heavy flooding Sir "

Mud

[raymond6751]

This one may be due to the crew fatigue imported to GW from another mod: I made a mission and was not able to start it due to having too many crew! Message was to return to barracks, impossible in single missions.

Oops

[raymond6751]

Here's one for you:
Med, 1942, pouring rain with blue sunny skies. Not a cloud in sight, just a big bright sun.
So, I decide to ask the Officer of the watch officer for a weather report. I get the message that there is no officer at the helm. Duh?
All my officer positions are occupied! So I switch a few around and try again, same message. No officer at the helm.

Does an ensign count as an officer? All mine are ensigns! I took the boat with the crew provided.

Hmmm...

[Syxx_Killer]

During my latest harbor raid (quite successful I might add :arrgh!: ), my sonarman was able to detect via hydrophone stationary ships. I don't remember that happening before. Was the hydrophone sensitivity increased?

[Tonnage_Ace]

During my latest harbor raid (quite successful I might add :arrgh!: ), my sonarman was able to detect via hydrophone stationary ships. I don't remember that happening before. Was the hydrophone sensitivity increased?
I've had that happen with the an unmodded SH3, pretty wierd, maybe he hears the waves lapping up against the hull :roll:
I also hope they're working on a fix for the LIGHT version of the 8km visual range mod included in GW, anyone try the DARK version? Maybe they got mixed up...It's really hurting my gameplay experience, I can't make out the ships, let alone the flags.

[thyro]

Another small glitch with GW is...


I've asked my WO for weather report and the reply was...

Clouds Overcast, Precipitations None, Fog Heavy, Wind Speed 15 meters per second, direction 158

Well all almost right with small exception... was raining heavilly outside :D so my WO must be blind or had too much RUM ;)

[Tonnage_Ace]

Spelling error: it's spelled Lisbon, not Lissabon or whatever.

[thyro]

Spelling error: it's spelled Lisbon, not Lissabon or whatever.

Lisbon in English

Lissabon perhaps in German

Lisboa (its true name) in Portuguese

I keep thinking that city names shouldn't be translated to other languages ... like happens with people names :) ... anyway its just me thinking

[Tonnage_Ace]

Spelling error: it's spelled Lisbon, not Lissabon or whatever.

Lisbon in English

Lissabon perhaps in German

Lisboa (its true name) in Portuguese

I keep thinking that city names shouldn't be translated to other languages ... like happens with people names :) ... anyway its just me thinking

I figured as much thyro, just figured I'd point it out just in case.

[thyro]

The damage mod in GW is now irritating me! :damn:

All due to "invencible" ships... like (medium/small cargos) taking 3, 4, 6 torpedos, blowing up and keeping floating... (even the lock wouldn't be able to lock) so its assumed that they went down... actually some even go down but is not registered as a sink/kill in the capt logs (even days after the supposed kill).

I reload the save before the attack and then sometimes (exactly from the same position) with 1 or even 2 torps are enough to make the cargo ship fly in the sky in flames and go imediatly under waters and the sink is logged.

The damage mod in GW really need to be reviewed asap

Meantime... Would someone know how to rollback this bugged damaged mod? Is really spoiling my game and GW :hulk: Many thanks

[Cdre Gibs]

Umm Guys, I think you have a problem with the LND layer. I keep getting CTD's every time I'm to the west of Loch Ewe near that new base (IIRC its call Stornoway?).

I decided to check the Campaign files, see if I could find the cause of the CTD's. So we crank up the trusty Mission editor to have a look see. The SCR open's fine, the RND opens fine (My GOD what a mess :lol: ), But do you think that bloody LND layer will open, HELL NO! Every time I try, the Mission Editor ALSO CTD's.

I have always been able to open the LND before, no probs. I can only come to the conclusion that its broke some how, as I'm NOT gonna go poking around via Notepad/word to try to see whats wrong. I dont find that method agreeable for troubleshooting (but Rubini just might - I hope). Anyway I'm gonna have to steer clear of the Loch Ewe area till I hear back from some1 on this.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Umm Guys, I think you have a problem with the LND layer. I keep getting CTD's every time I'm to the west of Loch Ewe near that new base (IIRC its call Stornoway?).

I decided to check the Campaign files, see if I could find the cause of the CTD's. So we crank up the trusty Mission editor to have a look see. The SCR open's fine, the RND opens fine (My GOD what a mess :lol: ), But do you think that bloody LND layer will open, HELL NO! Every time I try, the Mission Editor ALSO CTD's.

I have always been able to open the RND before, no probs. I can only come to the conclusion that its broke some how, as I'm NOT gonna go poking around via Notepad/word to try to see whats wrong. I dont find that method agreeable for troubleshooting (but Rubini just might - I hope). Anyway I'm gonna have to steer clear of the Loch Ewe area till I hear back from some1 on this.

Can you tell me what date in-game you refer to? I checked the mission editor immediately and had no problems opening it or the LND layer... though I am not an expert on the M.E., I din't see anything fishy at a glance.

I need a little more info... as will Rubini. This will be investigated. :yep:

[Cdre Gibs]

The in game CTD was 1/1/945 (left Bergen) - headed over to Scarpa (no probs, sunk every thing) - headed over to Loch Ewe (no probs, sunk the BB an CL's) headed west to go down the channel - CTD. And before you ask I was on the surface and did NOT hit a mine. I had got about ¾ of the way across the channel and that was all she wrote !

And in the M.E. I cant even open the LND. It will CTD every time.

I had the same sort of drama 1's with Liverpool. The in game Habour was NOT at the same place as the BASE on the map. every time I got any where near Liverpool, CTD. It was only when I finaly changed the settings to place it correctly that the game behaved its self.


PS: I have to be up at 06:00H an its now 23:25h (Off to a New Ship Commissioning Ceramony - Training Ship Cockburn - pronunced cO-Burn before any1 gets funny ideas :lol: ) so I'll be gone till late tomorrow arvo.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

The damage mod in GW is now irritating me! :damn:

All due to "invencible" ships... like (medium/small cargos) taking 3, 4, 6 torpedos, blowing up and keeping floating... (even the lock wouldn't be able to lock) so its assumed that they went down... actually some even go down but is not registered as a sink/kill in the capt logs (even days after the supposed kill).

I reload the save before the attack and then sometimes (exactly from the same position) with 1 or even 2 torps are enough to make the cargo ship fly in the sky in flames and go imediatly under waters and the sink is logged.

The damage mod in GW really need to be reviewed asap

Meantime... Would someone know how to rollback this bugged damaged mod? Is really spoiling my game and GW :hulk: Many thanks


irish1958 wrote:
"Since most ship sink because of uncontrolled flooding, it takes a long time, sometimes hours.
irish1958 "

My response:

Exactly, and with the smaller ships, striking the same spot with a subsequent torpedo may have little or no effect in sinking the ship.

You can think of the ships as having more than one compartment that is "water-tight." Therefore, you really need to hit more than one place on the ship. There is always the chance for a critical hit... but largely you should never count on a critical.

Another thing about smaller ships and compartments... you can think of these compartments as being a little closer together, which can be a good thing or a bad thing for you... depending on where your torps hit.

Furthermore, re-modelling damage for one boat can actually have a cascade effect and cause problems in other boats.

There are some smaller ships/boats where I am going to review the DM, but I am still deciding as to whether or not the small merchants need futher attention at the moment.

At the very least... engaging enemy ships will yield an uncertain outcome for you... You will find yourself seriously asking "Is she worth another torpedo? Should I risk surfacing and using the deck gun?" Your decision may have a definite impact on your total end-of-patrol tonnage score.

Stock SH3 was full of certainties... These certainties are things that are going the way of the dinosaur.

Lack of certainty is a GOOD thing.

If you are unhappy with the damage model itself, try de-selecting "realistic sinking times" in your realism settings. I don't know what effect this will have for you because the GW mod aims at achieving higher levels of realism in this area... but it may accelerate the death of enemy shipping that you encounter.

[thyro]

But how about they get sunk and not recorded in the capts log?

Beside 5 torps seem overwelming firepower for a small size hull, well enough for a smal marchant to go pin down in seconds. But instead of that, it simple blow up all its deck, remained flouting for a day or so, then finally went down the waters. No message "she's going down" either record on capts log that sink.

As I mentioned, reloading the savegame and the outcome is totally different, where for 2 times were enouhg to use 1 single torp to blow it up from the water and sink it in seconds... beside it was recorded in the capts log.

So I really find a bit odd that this damage mod trys to be more real when in fact seem a bit faulty.

Fair enough the lack of certainty but lack of record the sink in the capts log for me is a fault.

But please lets avoid to go extrems to a point that is almost required to use a nuke to pin down a small merchant.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

But how about they get sunk and not recorded in the capts log?

Beside 5 torps seem overwelming firepower for a small size hull, well enough for a smal marchant to go pin down in seconds. But instead of that, it simple blow up all its deck, remained flouting for a day or so, then finally went down the waters. No message "she's going down" either record on capts log that sink.

As I mentioned, reloading the savegame and the outcome is totally different, where for 2 times were enouhg to use 1 single torp to blow it up from the water and sink it in seconds... beside it was recorded in the capts log.

So I really find a bit odd that this damage mod trys to be more real when in fact seem a bit faulty.

Fair enough the lack of certainty but lack of record the sink in the capts log for me is a fault.

But please lets avoid to go extrems to a point that is almost required to use a nuke to pin down a small merchant.

Something to remember too, that when stating that issue "X" needs to be addressed... is that a little patience from you is required.

GW largely uses the NYGM ship damage model as stated in the readme. I am 95% happy with it and feel that by and large it is working properly.

Both teams are perfecting their mods and some things will change over time. I think I can speak for all of the large mod captains when I say that we have a sense of loyalty to people who choose to use the mods we were involved in bringing you... However, we also have other responsibilities... families, jobs, and other events that keep us from spending the time we would like to here.

Hang in there. I will answer all questions as best as I can. If I need to I will ask for help.

I am not so proud as to think that I can do it all by myself. Nor do I have the attitude that one particular mod will make everyone happy.

[baxter]

With regard to not getting credit for a sinking: My experience has been that SH3 doesn't give you credit for a ship if you attack it but save the game and then reload the game before the ship actually sinks. This was always the case. With the NYGM damage model its a little more obvious since ships take longer to sink now, but its not the mod that interferes with getting credit for a sinking. Overall I think the ship damage model is one of the greatest improvements ever to come along for this game. It is far more realistic and as Kpt. Lehmann points out adds uncertainty to the game.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

With regard to not getting credit for a sinking: My experience has been that SH3 doesn't give you credit for a ship if you attack it but save the game and then reload the game before the ship actually sinks. This was always the case. With the NYGM damage model its a little more obvious since ships take longer to sink now, but its not the mod that interferes with getting credit for a sinking. Overall I think the ship damage model is one of the greatest improvements ever to come along for this game. It is far more realistic and as Kpt. Lehmann points out adds uncertainty to the game.

Thanks baxter, I was sure that had been addressed before and had been hunting through my notes for some time. Cheers mate!
Another issue goes into the "Resolved" stack. :up: :up: :up:

[Syxx_Killer]

At first I wasn't too sure what to think about the damage model. Initial thoughts were, "I don't like it." Since I have gotten used to it now, I actually like it. I did the XXI single mission and actually enjoyed watching the carriers slowly sink, which was dangerous because by that time I had attracted a cult following. :rotfl: I enjoy watching the ships sink again, and always kind of felt that one torpedo seemed kind of unrealistic to sink a C3 or C3.

Additionally, I have another question. I had unticked the manual targeting and was messing around. When the options appeared in the recognition manual to choose which part of the ship to aim for, I noticed that when the torpedo hit there were no indications of a critical hit. Were the critical hit points altered as well? The target was a C2, and I chose to aim for the fuel bunker. This was during the convoy training mission.

[thyro]

With regard to not getting credit for a sinking: My experience has been that SH3 doesn't give you credit for a ship if you attack it but save the game and then reload the game before the ship actually sinks. This was always the case. With the NYGM damage model its a little more obvious since ships take longer to sink now, but its not the mod that interferes with getting credit for a sinking. Overall I think the ship damage model is one of the greatest improvements ever to come along for this game. It is far more realistic and as Kpt. Lehmann points out adds uncertainty to the game.

Hi

I'm sorry if I got wrong... but I think that you got sliglty wrong about what I wrote in my previous posts

I save the game before attack and not after... and always with the target between 400m-500m positioned from one of target sides.

So the missing credits has nothing todo with pos-attack save-game possible bug.

But a problem with certain ships that even after landing on the sea bed, do not give any credits (either their sank are logged the captain's log) and this always happens with a medium/small merchants...(when take torp after torp to fill them with water and take amost one/two or more days to finally start sinking)

With GW I had to recur to save-game due to this issue (as workaround) the problem.

And most of the times that I do the reload, the same target goes bang with one/two torps like this damage mod didn't exist... with other advantage beside saving torps... I get the sink logged and its credits.

I have to say this caviat, is anoying (due to the time that takes to reload the game). For that reason that I've asked in one of my posts if someone would know where I could rollback this damage mod.

Note: I'm not criticising the ideas that this damage mod introduces. But the fact that in certain circunstances it doesn't seem to work properly, specially when the target sanks and no log is recorded (eventually no credits added).

I'm sorry I don't know how to better express the circusntaces to help someone to look into and tweek what needs to be tweeked.

[Der Teddy Bar]

This NYGM Ship Damage Mod is far from perfect. It is however very good considering the limitations imposed by the SHIII format.


Sorry Kpt but I feel that I have no choice but to hijack this thread over the NYGM Ship Damage Mod.

I think that players need to become accustomed to the NYGM Ship Damage Mod. You will find 225 posts over 9 pages discussing how it all works in the 'Not Your Grand Mothers Ship Damage Mod Beta 0.1.36' thread here - http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=47519&highlight=nygm

I would strongly suggest also reading the NYGM Tonnage War v1.03 User Manual.pdf found here http://hosted.filefront.com/TeddyBar In the NYGM Tonnage War v1.03 User Manual is 12 pages outlining how the ship damage was implemented in SHIII and what NYGM did to attain what is currently in use.

The overall aim of the Not Your Grand Mothers Ship Damage Mod was to make ships ‘sink’… and not just run out of HP’s i.e. Hit Points.

The Not Your Grand Mother's Ship Sinking Mod does not aim nor intend to make it harder to sink ships than it was historically. It cannot be denied that the Not Your Grand Mother's Ship Sinking Mod does make it more challenging to sink ships than it was in the stock game, but I am sure that even the most ardent Silent Hunter III fan will acknowledge that the sinking of ships in the standard game is at the gamey end of the realism scale.

The Read Me file also contains very important data on how it all works so that you may get better results from this Mod.

There is not doubt that the occasional quirk where a ship takes excessive torpedoes and shells to sink, or will sink unusually, the same thing happened in real life. So I would ask that before making any wild statements that this or that doesn't work is that you sit back and think about it some more, make sure that it happens again and again and then make sure to support your claim with screen shots and relevant data on torpedo hit location/s etc etc.

There are some very imposing limitations such as 1 set of configuration data may be used by up to 10 ships, and to fix one ship may break 5 others.

The time for the sinking affect, should generally be 1-2 hours at most. It may take longer, I can’t say for sure. I will try and make sure that most sinking occurs well within 2 hours.

The big question is will I get credit after I have left the area? The answer is yes. I have tested this and have been as far away as 31 kilometres when I have been notified that the ship sunk.

[Tonnage_Ace]

I love the aspect of sinking now, the fact that after an engagement, after you've broken off from a convoy, you may end up getting that "She's going down!" response some time after. But I came across a Fiji and a Dido moored in Gibraltar and sunk the Fiji with one torp aimed for his ammo bunker, I wasn't too surprised because I've always been a one torpedo, one ship kind of guy. But this Dido took one on her starboard side and four(two salvos) on her port side, both salvos aimed at her fuel and ammo bunkers below the gun emplacements. I'm all for the fact that if I missed these areas, targeting a ship in a convoy, she may still sink, but what if I hit those spots, dead-on, that seems to be the only peeve I have with the DM.
Does anyone know if the critical chance areas have been moved or altered in GW and can we have a rec manual highlighting these areas in the next patch? Game is too dark at night too.

[thyro]

Well, I'm sorry to be here again, but this will be my last post under GW topic.

The damage mod has a serious issue that need your attention.

GW is going be moved out from SH3 until I see some note regarding solving the issue.

For me a game is meant to be funny and not a pain. I praise all devs that build the GW package. Because they made SH3 alive and a bit more realistic in certain ways. Realism that I always wanted to see in this game, but this issue have been testing my patience... and I'm about to give it up.

Meantime let me share my last experience that took me several hours dodging DDs to get my sub into the right position and then this...

A Large Tanker received 11 torps across its right side. All spread from ships rear to its front.

After 18 hours (game time at 32 speed) the ship remained in the same state (floating), engines stopped, with water washing its right deck. (my sub without torps left)

I'm sorry but this is far from real and this kind of "realism" isn't working for me.

Usually a tanker contains... fuel and usually fuel ignite with flames (explosions). So what would I need to have/do to pin down this ship?

I suppose that 11 torps spread all over one of its side is well beyond the acceptable... I am facing again one unsinkable ship, beside I can't fire the 12th torp because my sub ran out of them.

by-the-way, I'm playing in career mode (if this makes any difference)

Anyway... to recap the issues that are happening in my GW game:

1) unsinkable ships (like above example)

2) almost unsinkable ships which take several hours to go down, once they land on seabed there are no credits and the sunk isn't recoded in "Capitain's log" (now if this is related or not to damage mod I don't know!)

<---- GW player now bit disapointed (due to damage mod issue) and waiting for next version of GW (or any patch that solves this issue) :(

Many thanks for your attention.

Bye

[Kpt. Lehmann]

@ Thyro.

After comparing the information from different GW players regarding the ship damage model and based on my own experience with it in-game... I find it to be working properly and basically as intended.

Furthermore, any potential changes will not occur overnight and will be carefully considered. I asked you for a little patience earlier, but you gave none. Apparently we are unable to move quickly enough to meet your requirements.

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the GW mod. I hope you will find an alternative that meets your standards.

Cheers

[dize]

sorry lehmann, but this is realy an issue. im very well aware of all the facts, but i have serious problems with the damage mod aswell. best example is my current (2nd gw) career.
i just finished the 3rd patrol, and i got no credits for all of the 4 ships i had sunk on my first patrol whatsoever. i can see the shipnames in sh3 commander, but i got no credit fo it. on my 2nd patrol a found a lone med (c2) merchant, and he swallowed 5 torpedoes till he went down. my last convoy aproach in that career ended with three single torpedo hits on three different med merchants, and not one of them even bothered to develope a list, or even drop out of formation. overall i have to say i have problems sinking more than 4 ships in one patrol, since i rarely sink a ship with one torpedo. im have to use the deck gun too.
im well aware how gamey stock sh3 made the sinking look etc, but tbh the damage allocation, or bang for the buck factor, felt much more realistic.
the nygm mod went a bit too far imho, with the attempt to slow down sinking times. and pls, this is no flukeing for me, since i have it in pretty much every patrol im playing with nygm. atm the negative sideeffects are starting to outweight the positive, mainly immersion, factors...

[Cdre Gibs]

If the Damage (or lack there of) settings are not to your liking I would suggest that you just overwrite the Zones.cfg with the stock 1 for SH3. It will leave all the other GW goodness in and give you the sinkings you deserve.

This at least would be a temp measure until the GW team make up their minds as to how they want to handel this issue if they feel inclined to do so.

[Cdre Gibs]

Ok, today while I was out 'n' about, I left my PC D/Ling the GW BT again. Well to cut a long story short I unziped the Campaign_LND.mis to a Temp folder, browesd to it in the Mission Editor, clicked open an guess what......CTD!

The only thing I can think of is I keep getting a corrupt D/L. I have no inclination to D/L GW Pt6 again so if you would be so kind to zip up just the LND layer and send it, I'll try that 1. File size I keep getting is 448KB. Seems small to me.

Thx

[Firebird]

Hi all! Installed GW yesterday, it looks incredible :). However, I fired 8 torpedoes at a small merchant at different areas/depths, and it didn't sink after 4 hours :o.

I checked this thread and according to some people, it could take days, but I'm confused - Der Teddy Bar stated the sinking should generally happen after 1-2 hours? Should I have waited longer, and is it normal that 8 torpedoes aren't enough to completely destroy the ship? (something I only did to see whether it was maybe invincible, after that I rammed it and it sunk :lol:)

Thanks a lot in advance,
Firebird.

[Tonnage_Ace]

I must say that the DM in GW did aggravate me somewhat, I've had all the experiences listed here like the 5 torp C2 and hardcore coastal merchant but I must say that I'm getting used to it. Some observations I've made concern the location of the fuel bunker, which I mainly aimed for when trying to sink merchants in one shot, I saw a diagram showing it in the same compartment as the engine room, right below the smokestack. Fore and aft of that are four cargo compartments, this has proved critical for me as I now aim for the smoke stack instead of just ahead of it like I used to do in the stock game. I've been able to get back to sinking ships with one torp this way, for people who are having trouble I suggest you do the same.

Another question I'd like to pose the people behind GW is this:

Being that there are two compartments in the bow of the merchant, if I plug a hole in each with two torps, will it sink faster then if I hit the stern cargo holds? Also, where are the ammo bunkers located now in warships? Would love some diagrams for this...

[Razman23]

OK, two things I have found.

First, it is the hi-res sea floor. Is this really neccesary? It takes a big hit on my FPS when I raise my scope. Not really a bug but does seem excessive.

Second, There is an 'bug' with the sound files. When I issue an order, I get a 'Preparing a solution for a stern shoot' type response after the correct verbal response. I cant remember which command key in does this. I will have to go back into the game and find out which key in causes that.

Overall, a great mod!!!!!!!!! :rock:

[Cdre Gibs]

Marking Patch - for those who feel so inclined, Alternitive Slovakia Roundel:

http://www.git.com.au/~voyager_tek/Markings_patch.zip

[Firebird]

Razman, there is an optional 'stock sea floor' mod included with GW, you can use it to replace the high-res one. Check the documentation & optional mods folder...

[Razman23]

Razman, there is an optional 'stock sea floor' mod included with GW, you can use it to replace the high-res one. Check the documentation & optional mods folder...

Oh.

I guess I could do that. :oops:

Well, you know how guys are......dont ask for directions, dont read directions, and dont know how to repond to the age old "does this make me look fat?" question from the better half. :hmm:

[baxter]

One (minor) thing...in RUb 1.45 if you were at the attack scope or uzo station and you pressed "0" on the keypad you would go directly to the conning tower. It was a nice feature that somehow got lost in Grey Wolves.

[LGN1]

Hello,

I just had an idea about the NYGM Damage Mod problem. Imagine the ship you have attacked starts to sink. Now, for SH the ship is not yet destroyed because it still has many hitpoints left. It is just sinking. I guess that during sinking these hitpoints are reduced until the ship is destroyed. But if the ship hits the ground in shallow water very early perhaps the hitpoints 'survive' and thus the ship is not counted as destroyed. Might this be true? This would also explain why it sometimes happen in the stock game. There it is also possible to sink ships without reducing the hitpoints. So, maybe the problem exists just in shallow water or depending how fast the 'depth' destroys the ship.

Anyway, until this problem is solved you can just reduce the hitpoints of the ships a little bit. That is what I have done since I think that (even if I always hit the same spot) a small ship cannot take more than 4 or 5 Torpedos.

Regards, LGN1

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I will be posting a fix for the trawler in a few hours. :cool:

[Razman23]

Second, There is an 'bug' with the sound files. When I issue an order, I get a 'Preparing a solution for a stern shoot' type response after the correct verbal response. I cant remember which command key in does this. I will have to go back into the game and find out which key in causes that.


Ok, found out when this happens.

It happens right when I get picked up by the DD while I am submerged.

Dont know why this does this though.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Second, There is an 'bug' with the sound files. When I issue an order, I get a 'Preparing a solution for a stern shoot' type response after the correct verbal response. I cant remember which command key in does this. I will have to go back into the game and find out which key in causes that.


Ok, found out when this happens.

It happens right when I get picked up by the DD while I am submerged.

Dont know why this does this though.

I am beginning to suspect that some files I added from "More sounds by Hoshi" are causing the problem as they re-assign priority for different verbal crew responses in an effort to re-enable some broken ones.

[SubSerpent]

Camera view on the bridge is messed up. Head can rotate upside down and it gets off alignment and you have to use the UZO or Bincos to get the camera view back to normal.


I don't care for the micromanagement of the crew. It's a pain for a Captain to have to put all his sailors into the bunks and tuck them end considering most of them do a piss poor job of detecting anything. If this is how it's suppose to be then even the player(Captain) should have to sleep. The way I see it is - If I am awake on this patrol, so should the crew!


Trawlers are industructable and can take a full load of torps from an VIIb and still it won't sink. Why are'nt the Brits using these to transport supplies?

Framerates are struggling leaving port but I notice that when I hit CTRL+ALT+Del and then close down the task manager and enter back into the game they go way up.

The same thing when submerging and using the scope with the water coming over the lens. My framerates reduced to 1 FPS, but CTRL+ALT+DEL and closing the task manager and entering into the game boosted my FPS to a WHOPPING 65 FPS during the water over the lens for the rest of the patrol. I am not sure what happens after entering a port and going on another patrol if I will have to do this again, but it's no big deal as long as it works. The game must have some memory leakage?






ALL in ALL I would say this was the best built 'SUPER MOD' considering it utilizes the best of the best 'mini mods' and somehow manages to improve not only the gameplay but also the FPS. For some reason the graphics now look spectacular compared to before (especially underwater), the distance to the horizon seems even more realistic(haze effect looks wonderful), and hundreds of other tiny little improvements overall and now the game even runs faster. I have gotten an overall FPS boost all around. The menue screen are faster and the mouse moves quickly around the screen, and where I used to get about 65 FPS in open seas on flat water and about 35 FPS on rough or choppy water, I now get 150 FPS on flat and 100-120 FPS in rough seas.

It's incredible and will save me from upgrading to an ATI800XT 256MB and keep my 9800Pro 128MB a bit longer. Perhaps I will upgrade my card in the fall or winter of this year.


BOTTOM LINE..........OUTSTANDING MOD GUYS............ :rock: :up: :up: :rock:

[SubSerpent]

Oh before I forget, Please get rid of the grandfather clock sound in future patches for this mod. At first I thought that I might get used to it, but later just began to find it irritating. Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock. Am I suppose to be Captain Hook or something?

SMEE!!!! Where's that bloody Crocodile at? I know he wants me other hand!!!! SMMMEEEEEEEE!!!!! :gulp:

[panthercules]

I fixed the clock noise by opening the clock.wav file in Windows' soundrecorder applet and hitting the reduce volume menu choice several times, then saving it back down - blissful quietude with only the faintest hint of a clock ticking somewhere now :)

However, I am now experiencing a wierd graphical anomaly with Grey Wolves - see through watch crew on my Type IXB - see below for screenshot:

http://show.imagehosting.us/show/1263291/0/nouser_1263/T1_-1_1263291.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=1263291)


I'm running an ATI Radeon X800XL with Catalyst 6.3 drivers - no other known video/graphic problems with this card/driver. I don't know if this is GW-related, but I wasn't getting this wierdness when I was running NYGM-TW or IUB before that with this same card/driver combo.

Any ideas what this is and how to fix it?

[Tonnage_Ace]

Man that's creepy, I can see he's using Crest White Strips.

[thyro]

I fixed the clock noise by opening the clock.wav file in Windows' soundrecorder applet and hitting the reduce volume menu choice several times, then saving it back down - blissful quietude with only the faintest hint of a clock ticking somewhere now :)

However, I am now experiencing a wierd graphical anomaly with Grey Wolves - see through watch crew on my Type IXB - see below for screenshot:

http://show.imagehosting.us/show/1263291/0/nouser_1263/T1_-1_1263291.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.us/index.php?action=show&ident=1263291)


I'm running an ATI Radeon X800XL with Catalyst 6.3 drivers - no other known video/graphic problems with this card/driver. I don't know if this is GW-related, but I wasn't getting this wierdness when I was running NYGM-TW or IUB before that with this same card/driver combo.

Any ideas what this is and how to fix it?

The image glitch is due to the location of the player view on the tower of the sub. That glitch also happens on VIICs in certain ocasions.

In GW the player point of view (in the tower) is almost on top of the observatory periscope (gyro) a step back from the "watch officer".

The SH3 original game, the point of view is side-by-side the watch officer. That is the reason of the problem... if the point of view were in the original position, you would see the crew member in front of you and not his interior. ;)

Just to add...

GW view does a complete 360 degress rotation (vertical and horizontal) which is also a bit odd for a human to do that... but if someone prefer, then can play the game with the SH3 world upside down :)

[panthercules]

The SH3 original game, the point of view is side-by-side the watch officer. That is the reason of the problem... if the point of view were in the original position, you would see the crew member in front of you and not his interior. ;)

Well, in the stock game and every Mod combo I've tried before GW, in the binoculars view the guys who would be in front of you have always disappeared/moved out of the way for me before, so I would never actually see anyone in front of me when looking through the binoculars - yet in GW, I am seeing various parts of the guys (that screenshot was just the wierdest/funniest of the bunch) in this sort of see-through mode - it is very distracting and immersion-killing. Is this really a function of GW and can it be fixed/eliminated?

[panthercules]

Woohoo - fixed - apparently, this has something to do with the changed camera position adopted by GW - see this thread for the fix that I stumbled onto over in the mods forum:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50341

I D/L'ed and tried the JSGME version of the mod/fix that jcwolf came up with as noted in that thread, and just ran a brief test in my Type IXB - no see-through watch crewmen anymore :)

Thanks jcwolf - that as driving me crazy. :rock:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Woohoo - fixed - apparently, this has something to do with the changed camera position adopted by GW - see this thread for the fix that I stumbled onto over in the mods forum:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50341

I D/L'ed and tried the JSGME version of the mod/fix that jcwolf came up with as noted in that thread, and just ran a brief test in my Type IXB - no see-through watch crewmen anymore :)

Thanks jcwolf - that as driving me crazy. :rock:

Just so you know, we didn't alter the camera position. (at least Marhkimov never said he did.)

I believe the effect is due to the binocular magnification being too high. It's on my list of stuff to fix and will be in the GW update.

In GW, for the identification of neutral shipping, the attack scope magnification was increased to 10x. Since GW uses grey contacts for all vessels, it is somewhat necessary. Reverting the cameras.dat file back to stock will make neutral identification tougher.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

There will be a slight delay on the armed trawler damage profile while I confer with Rubini about its naming in the sea folder.

(The armed trawler "NTRW" seems to be PCTrawler in the GW campaign and roster folders... but seems to have no corresponding "PCTrawler" entry in the "Sea" folder)

[thyro]

In GW, for the identification of neutral shipping, the attack scope magnification was increased to 10x. Since GW uses grey contacts for all vessels, it is somewhat necessary. Reverting the cameras.dat file back to stock will make neutral identification tougher.

Kpt. Lehmann,

I got no way to confirm this with real UBoats... but shouldn't be the function of the observation periscope (auxiliar scope)?


btw would be excellent if more interiors could be added to allow walking through different compartments (beside SH3 original share some of the interiors with different uboat models which seem not correct) Anyway, here it is some :up: photos that I just found

http://uboat.net/gallery/index.html?gallery=U995A&amp;img=7

[Kpt. Lehmann]

In GW, for the identification of neutral shipping, the attack scope magnification was increased to 10x. Since GW uses grey contacts for all vessels, it is somewhat necessary. Reverting the cameras.dat file back to stock will make neutral identification tougher.

Kpt. Lehmann,

I got no way to confirm this with real UBoats... but shouldn't be the function of the observation periscope (auxiliar scope)?


btw would be excellent if more interiors could be added to allow walking through different compartments (beside SH3 original share some of the interiors with different uboat models which seem not correct) Anyway, here it is some :up: photos that I just found

http://uboat.net/gallery/index.html?gallery=U995A&amp;img=7

3D modelling for further interior compartments in player Uboats was never completed by the Ubisoft devs. Furthermore it would likely require the use of the SDK which they said they would give us but did not.

[Montbrun]

Well, I'm sorry to be here again, but this will be my last post under GW topic.

The damage mod has a serious issue that need your attention.

GW is going be moved out from SH3 until I see some note regarding solving the issue.

For me a game is meant to be funny and not a pain. I praise all devs that build the GW package. Because they made SH3 alive and a bit more realistic in certain ways. Realism that I always wanted to see in this game, but this issue have been testing my patience... and I'm about to give it up.

Meantime let me share my last experience that took me several hours dodging DDs to get my sub into the right position and then this...

A Large Tanker received 11 torps across its right side. All spread from ships rear to its front.

After 18 hours (game time at 32 speed) the ship remained in the same state (floating), engines stopped, with water washing its right deck. (my sub without torps left)

I'm sorry but this is far from real and this kind of "realism" isn't working for me.

Usually a tanker contains... fuel and usually fuel ignite with flames (explosions). So what would I need to have/do to pin down this ship?

I suppose that 11 torps spread all over one of its side is well beyond the acceptable... I am facing again one unsinkable ship, beside I can't fire the 12th torp because my sub ran out of them.

by-the-way, I'm playing in career mode (if this makes any difference)

Anyway... to recap the issues that are happening in my GW game:

1) unsinkable ships (like above example)

2) almost unsinkable ships which take several hours to go down, once they land on seabed there are no credits and the sunk isn't recoded in "Capitain's log" (now if this is related or not to damage mod I don't know!)

<---- GW player now bit disapointed (due to damage mod issue) and waiting for next version of GW (or any patch that solves this issue) :(

Many thanks for your attention.

Bye

Don't give up on this excellent MOD. You just had some bad luck. I have experienced the same thing. I had 1 ship take 12 hours, and another take over 20 hours to sink - in a row - just incredibly bad luck - this hasn't happened since then. Ships sink within 2 hours max. After re-reading the NYGM manual, I realized that TB has factored in "Dud Rates," which are not accurately reflected in the game. Dud Rates, especially early in the war, ran 50-100%. Just think of it this way - 8 of the 11 Eels you shot at that ship were Duds - very plausible.

Montbrun

[thyro]

Don't give up on this excellent MOD. You just had some bad luck. I have experienced the same thing. I had 1 ship take 12 hours, and another take over 20 hours to sink - in a row - just incredibly bad luck - this hasn't happened since then. Ships sink within 2 hours max. After re-reading the NYGM manual, I realized that TB has factored in "Dud Rates," which are not accurately reflected in the game. Dud Rates, especially early in the war, ran 50-100%. Just think of it this way - 8 of the 11 Eels you shot at that ship were Duds - very plausible.

Montbrun

Weren't the case of dud torps (I had the dud option switched off at that time). All torps had impact the target leaving a nice black spot on target's hull from its front to its rear (All torps were set for impact).

This issue happened to me quite often but I need to mention the damage mod also worked other times like it should.

For those unsinkable ships (that I faced) I recurred to reload the savegame made before the attack... and the issue simply disapeared with game reloaded, the same target that was unsinkable before sink after the reload. For this reason that I believe that is something wrong with damage mod or somewere between.

[thyro]

3D modelling for further interior compartments in player Uboats was never completed by the Ubisoft devs. Furthermore it would likely require the use of the SDK which they said they would give us but did not.

:(

Pity!!!! Would be quite envolving if each uboat had its own interior and more compartiments were added.

Other question about GW

During WWII allieds made several raids and air-strikes to Axis ports. Would raids be somehow included in GW to have some action in friendly docks?

Issues to add to the list

- Career mode - At least I had one Mission (12th or 13th I can't remember) starting and finishing at Lorient where the patrol grid was null

- The channel from Kiel to Hamburg, all the docks/city names don't appear in the map. What makes a deadly trap for who sets an "autopilot" route through the channel. (Please include if possible the Scapa flow - SH3 original bug)

- On my 1st career mission I ran straight to a mine in a friendly port, killed 1/4 of my crew :damn: (can't they be referenced on the map instead of jpgs?)... suggestion WO/SO to identify them at short range and pin point the discovered ones on the map.

- Engagement... in one of the GW missions I torped 1x one medium merchant then I used the weapon to finish it... 5 minutes later I had 3 waves of friendly planes droping bombs on my target... I thought... great... interaction... they hit the target but didn't finish it and I kept hiting it with 8mm cannon... I finished it, it went down but no credits either log were recorded on "captain's log" (please could someone look at this)

Suggestions

- Planes are hard to be visually identified, I would suggest to make WO to recognize if the plane is friendy/foe.

- Periscope target identification, once the target identified, if is allied, it turns red in the map (instead of grey).

- Same for axis forces, once identified as friendly they turn blue and the WO stops mention them everytime that they pop out in his range (case of planes in friendly ports).

I'm sorry for the long post :)

But I liked what I saw in GW :rock: and I hope that it gets even better

thanks

[Schani]

Is there an addendum coming out for the Grey Wolves mod in the future?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Is there an addendum coming out for the Grey Wolves mod in the future?

Yes :yep:

[jasonb885]

The latest IC isn't included, yet.

:up:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

The latest IC isn't included, yet.

:up:

Wellll... it wasthe latest not too long ago. Keep up the good work Jason. :up: :up: :up:

[Schani]

Great! I figured there would be an addendum. Still new. Still running pretty much stock SH III. I'll consider this training until the addendum is issued. I heve everything downloaded and ready. Thanks much.

[JonZ]

:shifty: double post :shifty:

[JonZ]

I have attacks on ports lately starting in 1943-44 at Bergens... I can't remember if it was my IuB or GW tho...


They were attacking and bombing the Tirpitz :yep:

[midshipsnake]

Hi,

I like the mod a lot, but deck gun is really aggravating.
It's too underpowered and slow that it's almost useless.
Also, gun crew is way too inaccurate. I'm in patrol, and
in 300 range, me and the other guy (tug boat) at 0 kts, only
1 out of 6-7 shots registered. I wrestled with this guy for 2 game
time hours then had to dive without finishing it because a destroyer
showed up. :hulk:

I agree that deck gun in stock version was overpowered, but
for gameplay sake, could the deck gun values be brought up more
closer to the original ones?

Please help, this is ruining my otherwise great gw experience.

[SubSerpent]

Noticed in a patrol last night when firing tubes 1 2 3 at a C2, my first torp out of tube one detonated half way to the target and in deep water so I know it did not collide with anything. I wasn't playing with 'Dud torpedos' enabled so what happened here. The other 2 hit the C2 but she did not go down. Maybe if that third one had not self detonated :hmm:

[SubSerpent]

What's the point of the dragable chronometer? It seems like a cool idea, but it doesn't work.

[SubSerpent]

Isn't there suppose to be a report under Chief Engineer to "Go to Bed'? This was a cool mod and allowed the player to use the bed in a TII U-boat.

[panthercules]

What's the point of the dragable chronometer? It seems like a cool idea, but it doesn't work.

It is (IMHO) an awesome idea, and it does work but not as completely as would be nice. It is not "clickable" so you can't start/stop it by clicking on it. However, while you still have to start the watch going on the original screens where it is available (UZO and 'scopes), you can now keep it out on your nav map screen so you can see when 3min/15secs is up so you can easily make your speed plots.

Sounds like a small thing, but having to remember to switch back to the 'scope or UZO screen in time to notice when the 3'15" mark arrives and then switch back to the nav map to make the mark was always a pain, so this is a real boon for me. I also use it on the binocs screen while I'm scanning the convoy or horizon waiting for time to make my speed marks, and the TDC screen so I don't miss my time mark while I'm on there setting up my pre-set firing settings.

Awesome work JonZ :rock:

[panthercules]

Kpt. Lehmann,

I got no way to confirm this with real UBoats... but shouldn't be the function of the observation periscope (auxiliar scope)?

The Obs scope has lower magnification level than the attack scope, so it wouldn't be the one to use for that purpose - it's primary use seems to have been for quick scans before surfacing (wider field of view, so easier to quickly spot ships nearby, plus tilts up so easier to scan sky for possible airplanes nearby) - these are both modeled in the game. It also appears to have had better light gathering/transmission qualities so would make it easier to see at night (when it's larger size and therefore more noticeable wake also wouldn't be much of a problem, at least until advanced radars arrived), but I have not been able to detect whether this is modeled in the game, so I suspect not.


In GW, for the identification of neutral shipping, the attack scope magnification was increased to 10x. Since GW uses grey contacts for all vessels, it is somewhat necessary. Reverting the cameras.dat file back to stock will make neutral identification tougher.


So, does this mean that by using this fix (which apparently reverts to the stock camera.dat file) the attack scope magnification will be dropped back to its usual 6x instead of the new 10x? If so, I consider that a reasonable tradeoff to avoid having that see-through watch crew problem.

BTW - although I liked the idea of being able to see the flags a little better, I wasn't that keen on seeing the "10x" in the scope screen, when I knew it should only be 6x - in case there is another way to fix this see-through watch crew problem, would it possible to have the increased magnification visual effect without changing the "6x" graphic to "10x" in the scope?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Great! I figured there would be an addendum. Still new. Still running pretty much stock SH III. I'll consider this training until the addendum is issued. I heve everything downloaded and ready. Thanks much.

Ahhh! Load'er up and take the plunge!!! I think you'll like it.

[midshipsnake]

Hi Kpt. Lehmann,

First of all, thank you for the great mode.

I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but
anyway, do you know how to bring deck gun
values up close to the original ones?

Can I do that by tweaking some numbers in cfg files?

Please help me. GW deck gun is really ruining
my game.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Hi Kpt. Lehmann,

First of all, thank you for the great mode.

I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but
anyway, do you know how to bring deck gun
values up close to the original ones?

Can I do that by tweaking some numbers in cfg files?

Please help me. GW deck gun is really ruining
my game.

I can address this in a day or two... I am working on a more pressing issue at the moment. You can revert a couple of files back to stock... but it will kill the realism for you. (just my opinion)

What I can do when I get there is make a JGSME compatible mod reverting the DG back to stock. This way if you decide to remove it and go back to GW specs you can. Like I say though it will be a day or two.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I'll get to the other questions in a few minutes.

[midshipsnake]

I read some posts complaining about it, and
I agree with them that it's not possible to sink
ship (already damaged or not) with gw deck gun.

I read a lot about real uboats finishing off damaged
ships with DG, and I don't think you can call gw DG realistic.

(I don't believe stock version DG is realistic either. I'm just
saying it was better gameplay wise.)

If anybody reading this ever sank a damgaged
ship with gw deck gun, please let me know.

[wolfast]

I reinstalled the stock DG"shell" files.... Just HAD to. The ships still seem harder to sink than a 100% stock game, But not Imposible like 100% GW.... so It feels VERY right for some reason? It takes a good number of hits to sink a ship thats already had one Torp. in her side.... But with GW Shell files..... NEVER could I finish off ANYTHING!!!!
Great Mod BTW!!!!!!

[midshipsnake]

Hello wolfast,

Would you be kind enough to email me that stock shell file?
(I already deleted my backups)

I would really, really, really appreciate it.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Oh before I forget, Please get rid of the grandfather clock sound in future patches for this mod. At first I thought that I might get used to it, but later just began to find it irritating. Tick Tock Tick Tock Tick Tock. Am I suppose to be Captain Hook or something?

SMEE!!!! Where's that bloody Crocodile at? I know he wants me other hand!!!! SMMMEEEEEEEE!!!!! :gulp:

LOL its already on the list. Check the GW section of Terrapin's site too.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Guys, I have successfully used the Deck Gun in GW to assist in the sinking of damaged ships.

That is the intent... to assist ships in sinking by aiming below the water line and increasing its rate of sink.

This takes work in GW as it did in RL.

Blowing ships up by shelling all their hit-points away is not what we intend to do.

A U-boat simply couldn't carry enough DG ammo to go 'round sinking ships with it arbitrarily.

Fishing boats... okay sure... PT boats sure if you can hit them... armed trawlers and up... very hard to kill in RL with a little pea-shooter like the 88mm naval gun and still hard work for the 105mm naval gun.

Guys I have several years experience in the actual use of artillery weapons... the 105 specifically among them. Now, I did not serve aboard a U-boat, but general principles do apply.

I DO KNOW that an HE (high explosive) round direct hit on a tank can have little effect... now consider the same round against a great big old 2000 ton merchant. You can draw your own conclusions.

You also must know that all my research... and Marhkimov's research indicated that U-Boats did not carry armor piercing (AP)rounds.

Removing the AP rounds from GW player Uboats also had the added advantage of forcing the crew to load the next available round type. (Default starting round used to be an automatically loaded "its already in there" AP round.)

I'll make a mod for returning the DG to stock... but it will not be part of the GW mod itself. I'll have this for you in a few days.

Even if we did re-tune the DG... it would only be by about one point upwards in damage potential per round.

The reload rates are based on many sources and my own recollections of weapons generally the same size.

With Stock SH3 it used to be a question of "how many ships can I sink with the DG?"

In GW it will remain a question of "do I have enough ammo?"

[wolfast]

Hello wolfast,

Would you be kind enough to email me that stock shell file?
(I already deleted my backups)

I would really, really, really appreciate it.
PM/E-MAIL sent

[wolfast]

Guys, I have successfully used the Deck Gun in GW to assist in the sinking of damaged ships.

That is the intent... to assist ships in sinking by aiming below the water line and increasing its rate of sink.

This takes work in GW as it did in RL.

Blowing ships up by shelling all their hit-points away is not what we intend to do.

A U-boat simply couldn't carry enough DG ammo to go 'round sinking ships with it arbitrarily.

Fishing boats... okay sure... PT boats sure if you can hit them... armed trawlers and up... very hard to kill in RL with a little pea-shooter like the 88mm naval gun and still hard work for the 105mm naval gun.

Guys I have several years experience in the actual use of artillery weapons... the 105 specifically among them. Now, I did not serve aboard a U-boat, but general principles do apply.

I DO KNOW that an HE (high explosive) round direct hit on a tank can have little effect... now consider the same round against a great big old 2000 ton merchant. You can draw your own conclusions.

You also must know that all my research... and Marhkimov's research indicated that U-Boats did not carry armor piercing (AP)rounds.

Removing the AP rounds from GW player Uboats also had the added advantage of forcing the crew to load the next available round type. (Default starting round used to be an automatically loaded "its already in there" AP round.)

I'll make a mod for returning the DG to stock... but it will not be part of the GW mod itself. I'll have this for you in a few days.

Even if we did re-tune the DG... it would only be by about one point upwards in damage potential per round.

The reload rates are based on many sources and my own recollections of weapons generally the same size.

With Stock SH3 it used to be a question of "how many ships can I sink with the DG?"

In GW it will remain a question of "do I have enough ammo?"
I under stand and (in a wierd way ) like the GW Deck gun. I have real world 25mm Gun action under my belt(Bradley) and I know that even a 88mm HE rounds would do little for LARGE ships.... I feel the GW dg would be better with just alittle more punch on the smaller ships.... I think my old 25mm Bushmaster could kill a fishing boat...lol... (if you like killing such targets.....) Again thank you for ALL work on GW.... It has given new life to SH3

[Tonnage_Ace]

As far as deck gun damage potential, I have no problems but it seems to me that almost every movie I've ever seen where troops are loading artillery shells, have done so faster than the 16 seconds I timed my guys loading a small 'pee-shooter' as you said yourself, type of weapon.

I knew something was fishy with GW's firing rate of the 88mm on the VIIB(of which I'm currently sailing) and this site proves it:

http://www.u47.org/english/u47_boa.asp?part=3

or this site:

http://www.uboataces.com/weapon-deck-gun.shtml



Look at the bottom part where it says that a highly trained crew of three men could fire 15-18 rounds a minute from the gun. I gave one of my officers a gunner certification, had three men manning the position and the bar above the deck gun position was full green...I was pulling off about five round per minute. That's why I'm now using SH3 Commander's default setting of four second loading times.

I'm not sure where you guys did your research but maybe you changed this to make it too hard to sink smaller ships or ships which have already been hit by torpedos and is being too stubborn to sink. There is a difference between making a game realistic and hard.

Although I may be completely wrong so please show me your sources to correct me.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

I will address the Deck Gun issue a final time when I return from duty on thursday.

[panthercules]

At the risk of turning this even more into a Deck Gun thread, let me say that the current GW situation seems to be a pretty good balance to me. Yes, at 15 seconds reload time (which is what I was using before via SH3 Commander anyway) I only get 3-4 shots off per minute. I know (based on what I've read - i wasn't there :) ) that real U-boat crews would be able to fire more rounds per minute.

However, given the game physics or whatever, and the fact that I never use my gun at more than 7m/s even though the game (as modded) would let me, I hardly ever miss my target (i.e., waterline), whereas I believe that a real U-boat crew would probably miss a lot, maybe 50% or more of the time (maybe more than 50% would hit the ship, but probably not the waterline aiming point). Therefore, my 3-4 good hits per minute seems about right.

Now, since I almost never miss, I'm only burning through ammo at maybe half the rate (or less) than the real crew would be for the same number of good hits. However, that is compensated for by the reduced damage power of the shells, so I still only have enough ammo for maybe 3 or 4 attacks if I'm lucky, not 10 or 12 like the stock game might give me. Again, that seems about right.

On my first GW patrol, I have managed to finish off two small merchants (one coastal and one small freighter), each of which I had hit with one torpedo. One took about 20 hits and sank in about an hour. The second one took maybe 35 hits and sank in a little over two hours. Again, that feels about right to me, and leaves me wondering the whole time whether I'm risking too much hanging around plinking away with my deck gun trying to save torpedoes, and whether I should just go ahead and give 'em a coup de grace with another torp and get out of there before the escorts or airplanes show up.

I'd love to see the following "solution" to the deck gun "problem", if all three factors could be worked out together:
1. Faster reload time
2. More powerful shells
3. Increased chance of missing

In the meantime, however, I think the current GW approach is a pretty decent simulation of what seems to me to be reasonable outcomes.

On the other hand, of course, options/choices are always good, and if making a simple fix to revert to more powerful deck guns lets more people enjoy the rest of the GW experience that might otherwise have shied away from it because of the deck gun issue, then I'm all for it.

[Tonnage_Ace]

At the risk of turning this even more into a Deck Gun thread, let me say that the current GW situation seems to be a pretty good balance to me. Yes, at 15 seconds reload time (which is what I was using before via SH3 Commander anyway) I only get 3-4 shots off per minute. I know (based on what I've read - i wasn't there :) ) that real U-boat crews would be able to fire more rounds per minute.

However, given the game physics or whatever, and the fact that I never use my gun at more than 7m/s even though the game (as modded) would let me, I hardly ever miss my target (i.e., waterline), whereas I believe that a real U-boat crew would probably miss a lot, maybe 50% or more of the time (maybe more than 50% would hit the ship, but probably not the waterline aiming point). Therefore, my 3-4 good hits per minute seems about right.

Now, since I almost never miss, I'm only burning through ammo at maybe half the rate (or less) than the real crew would be for the same number of good hits. However, that is compensated for by the reduced damage power of the shells, so I still only have enough ammo for maybe 3 or 4 attacks if I'm lucky, not 10 or 12 like the stock game might give me. Again, that seems about right.

On my first GW patrol, I have managed to finish off two small merchants (one coastal and one small freighter), each of which I had hit with one torpedo. One took about 20 hits and sank in about an hour. The second one took maybe 35 hits and sank in a little over two hours. Again, that feels about right to me, and leaves me wondering the whole time whether I'm risking too much hanging around plinking away with my deck gun trying to save torpedoes, and whether I should just go ahead and give 'em a coup de grace with another torp and get out of there before the escorts or airplanes show up.

I'd love to see the following "solution" to the deck gun "problem", if all three factors could be worked out together:
1. Faster reload time
2. More powerful shells
3. Increased chance of missing

In the meantime, however, I think the current GW approach is a pretty decent simulation of what seems to me to be reasonable outcomes.

On the other hand, of course, options/choices are always good, and if making a simple fix to revert to more powerful deck guns lets more people enjoy the rest of the GW experience that might otherwise have shied away from it because of the deck gun issue, then I'm all for it.

On the contrary, I don't think damage should be touched being that it's actually quite accurate, reload times are unrealistic and that accuracy is spot on too. In the stock game, it limited you too 7m/s, but if you did fire at 6m/s you would notice that the boat does rock up and down, if at a complete stop, moving forward seem to help this. In GW, I haven't found what the limit is for the VIIB, of which I'm currently using but I have zeroed in a target with my watch officer's range and landed many good shots, occasionally over-shooting and under-shooting the target based on the rocking of the boat. Land based artillery doesn't have this problem as the emplacements are bolted to the ground, but the 88mm and 105mm suffered from the unstable platform which is the super-light structure of a u-boat, rockn' to the seas' tune. But suffice it to say, the accuracy, and lack thereof, is correctly modelled into the game. I have missed despite being zeroed in due to the boat moving up and down some degrees. Adding 11-12 seconds to the reload time just because, "...well I'm supposed to miss more..." is fixing the wrong issue.

[JonZ]

Well, in U-571 they took out a Radio Station on a German Destroyer in one shot, so... :hmm:

:-j

[mkubani]

According to my reading of U-Boat books I also agree with other guys proposing a decreased loading time. 5-6 sec would do the job for me. :)

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Well, in U-571 they took out a Radio Station on a German Destroyer in one shot, so... :hmm:

:-j :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

http://rapidshare.de/files/16690841/GW_Armed_Trawler_Fix.zip.html

The above link is for the promised armed trawler fix.

Added missing Cfg file for this vessel and correct .zon file

I apologize for the inconvenience.

Much appreciation to Teddy Barr for providing a corrected .zon file

[McBeck]

The issue with the deckgun being ineffecient means that you cant finish the Naval akademys artillery exam using GW.
Solution: Disable GW while completing the Naval akademi.

[midshipsnake]

But how do you make holes on waterline steel hull
with only HE ammo?

I thought there's no AP ammo in gw deckgun, yet
Kpt. Lehmann is suggesting that we should aim HE
shots at ship's waterline. It'll be like trying to bust middle
age fortress wall with greek fires. :88)

Am I missing something here?

[Einzelganger]

Another small point and not too sure if this is GW connected but....

So far i've played about 5 patrols now with GW and nothing else added to SHIII and in each patrol i came across a DD which blew off it's own depthcharges and handling crew in the process of trying to get me depthcharged.

In each case this happened the DD then seems to be running scared as it either disappears in the horizon or just isn't attacking anymore.

Anyone else had similar happenings or not ?

The last DD which i met under these circumstances left behind one of the handlingcrew iso always blowing everything/everyone off the deck. The poor guy just stood there unable to do his job :nope: Can we give the guy a break :lol:

[Schani]

Kpt. Lehmann, Thanks.

I just started my second campaign, first partol, last night (15,000 grt). Seeing the trawler issue resolved, I may install soon. Right now, just seeing what I learned from the first campaign. Intense training. I'll wait for the addendum. I just hate uninstall/reinstall. Or, am I able to just download GW. The only mods added are a couple of textures and gramophone randomizer. I tried installing the patch 1.4b after the first campaign. It did not want to cooperate. I can't remember if I installed it back in January. I think I might have. Just can't remember. And it doesn't show up at the bottom of the main screen. Everything works just fine though. What else would tell me if 1.4b is installed?

You are/were a cannoneer?

My buddy's dad commanded a 105 battery in the Pacific (1st Cav, 1938?-1972). I will always remember the framed plaque on the wall in the basement. "Artillery adds dignity to what otherwise would be a vulgar brawl". Lost in the `97 flood. Feel free to use as a sig. Can't seem to change mine.

[JonZ]

11. No credit given at end of mission.
OUTSTANDING
Hints:
-When all my ammo and torps was gone i went back to base ( used the quik way to do it) and in my captians log i had 3 merchants and 1 military weasel sunk.
-But on the patrol report screen it was all 0. No ship sunk,, No patrol done. No renew. No medals, promotions etc.
It was filled whit zeros like i never been on a patrol. -Vikinger

Something reminds me of the first patrol upgrade bug.

When you upgrade some equipments in the equipment screen on your first patrol, you get no credits for the sinking ships when you're back to homebase.

I never experienced that because I never paid attention, but I tought it was worth to mention.

[wolfast]

http://rapidshare.de/files/16690841/GW_Armed_Trawler_Fix.zip.html

The above link is for the promised armed trawler fix.

Added missing Cfg file for this vessel and correct .zon file

I apologize for the inconvenience.

Much appreciation to Teddy Barr for providing a corrected .zon file
THank YOu!!!!!

[wolfast]

...Is anyone else not getting a score for sinking small merchant? I sank 3 last patrol(saw them go down) And didnt get credit? Im running SH Commander and GW..... help!!! thanks

[vodkajello]

Ok, today while I was out 'n' about, I left my PC D/Ling the GW BT again. Well to cut a long story short I unziped the Campaign_LND.mis to a Temp folder, browesd to it in the Mission Editor, clicked open an guess what......CTD!

The only thing I can think of is I keep getting a corrupt D/L. I have no inclination to D/L GW Pt6 again so if you would be so kind to zip up just the LND layer and send it, I'll try that 1. File size I keep getting is 448KB. Seems small to me.

Thx


That is how big mine is.

[vodkajello]

First page updated with current issues.

[JonZ]

My LND file is 434 kb and seems to not be corrupted. I can open it with the Editor.

[SubSerpent]

Scottie-Doo, I thought there was going to be freakin sharks with la-zer beams attached to their freakin heads in this mod? :(

[JonZ]

Opinions != bugs

:shifty:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Opinions != bugs

:shifty:

Thank you Jonz, opinions are not bugs. :cool:

Before the end of the day today I am going to address the GW deck gun complaints a final time.

On another matter:
TO EVERYONE.. SH3 Save-game routines are simply screwed up. Based on my own experience and if I recall correctly a statement that JSCONES related...

IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1) On your first patrol of a new career before leaving port... do not upgrade or change anything. (I think you can add a sub emblem... but do so at your own risk.

2) On your following patrols do not upgrade your sub at the end of the patrol... wait until you are about to leave for the next one.
(In base at end of patrol=no upgrading
In base just prior to patrol start=ok go ahead and upgrade it.

3) Also regarding ships in harbors all running straight towards the nearest ground, beaching, and burning etc.... THIS happens when you save your game within 50 km of a harbor... and is also a stock SH3 bug. (Another tip, you will take an FPS hit in harbor areas because there is a lot for your PC to track and render... USE LOW TC if you must use TC to leave the area.

4) If you do upgrade your sub at the wrong time or save a game before an enemy ship is actually sunk YOU WILL NOT GET CREDIT FOR DESTROYING THEM!!!

5) Numbers 1-4 above we cannot fix... but you can change your actions to adapt to them, thereby nullifying them.

[Mart!jn]

Noticed in a patrol last night when firing tubes 1 2 3 at a C2, my first torp out of tube one detonated half way to the target and in deep water so I know it did not collide with anything. I wasn't playing with 'Dud torpedos' enabled so what happened here. The other 2 hit the C2 but she did not go down. Maybe if that third one had not self detonated

When playing 'Dud torpedos'. you will get historical accurate failing torpedo's.
when not playing with it, there can be still some malfunctioning with the torpede, but it is to by historical accurate statistics.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Noticed in a patrol last night when firing tubes 1 2 3 at a C2, my first torp out of tube one detonated half way to the target and in deep water so I know it did not collide with anything. I wasn't playing with 'Dud torpedos' enabled so what happened here. The other 2 hit the C2 but she did not go down. Maybe if that third one had not self detonated

When playing 'Dud torpedos'. you will get historical accurate failing torpedo's.
when not playing with it, there can be still some malfunctioning with the torpede, but it is to by historical accurate statistics.

I've experience that in-game too while testing GW... however, the GW team did not alter torpedo reliability.

[Schiffmorder]

I posted a seperate thread on this, but maybe it goes here...
Since using GW the game has crashed to desktop 3 times. The first time I was on patrol and using the map at largest scale, other two times I was in the sub doing some command and poof, all is gone.
The first two times happen sometime after I have sunk a ship, not so close as to think it is related, but I lost the ship because I have not saved. Previously game has been extremely stable and I am not in the habit of saving. This last time I lost not only a ship, but now the entire saved patrol to that point is GONE!!!!

[Tonnage_Ace]

Opinions != bugs

:shifty:

Thank you Jonz, opinions are not bugs. :cool:

Before the end of the day today I am going to address the GW deck gun complaints a final time.

On another matter:
TO EVERYONE.. SH3 Save-game routines are simply screwed up. Based on my own experience and if I recall correctly a statement that JSCONES related...

IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1) On your first patrol of a new career before leaving port... do not upgrade or change anything. (I think you can add a sub emblem... but do so at your own risk.

2) On your following patrols do not upgrade your sub at the end of the patrol... wait until you are about to leave for the next one.
(In base at end of patrol=no upgrading
In base just prior to patrol start=ok go ahead and upgrade it.

3) Also regarding ships in harbors all running straight towards the nearest ground, beaching, and burning etc.... THIS happens when you save your game within 50 km of a harbor... and is also a stock SH3 bug. (Another tip, you will take an FPS hit in harbor areas because there is a lot for your PC to track and render... USE LOW TC if you must use TC to leave the area.

4) If you do upgrade your sub at the wrong time or save a game before an enemy ship is actually sunk YOU WILL NOT GET CREDIT FOR DESTROYING THEM!!!

5) Numbers 1-4 above we cannot fix... but you can change your actions to adapt to them, thereby nullifying them.
:rotfl: When it's listed out like that it's pretty funny. I'd love to have Ubi release a list like that...priceless. When was the last patch released? Oh ya, eight months ago...I bet someone is waging a bet that they could make bugs like that which are kinda funny and see if we mind it or not.

[Catfish]

Hello,
just started anew with SH3 and the grey wolves mod. I like it very much, especially that you need only one mod to have it almost all - great!

If i would post what i like here, i would need ten pages at least, so ... i have some issues with the deck and AA guns:


Deck gun:

Succeeding at school is much harder now (maybe like it should be), but it is impossible to sink the requested four ships with the deck gun.
This was already discussed during Beery's "Real U-boat mod", the firing rate was changed to 1 or two shots per minute, but at least RUB's deck gun did any damage. Now you're mostly not even able to destroy any cargo, let alone a C2.

In the beginning of the war, when ships were still stopped to let the crew escape, and then sunk, U-boats often used the deck gun. There is some ammunition in a locker at the foot of the deck gun, so at least the first twenty shots could be fired very quickly - in the meantime, after those 20 shots, there would be enough ammunition on deck provided by the crew to keep up the firing rate.

If there was no immediate danger the shots were even aimed carefully and precisely to see and estimate if there was still another shot needed. Usually the captain would advise the weapon's officer to fire five shots, and the gun crew was allowed to fire those shots by the weapon's officer, repeating the captain's orders aloud again. After this all waited to see what happened.

And the hit rate was much higher than 50 percent, again i don't know where you get the numbers from. U-boat crews fired at distances of 200-700 meters rather than remote targets. Hitting ships at a distance of 2-3000 metres so well in SH is a bit unrealistic. Maybe you could make it harder to hit remote targets, but increase the effect on close shots ?

I guess you over-estimate a freight ship's "armour" - there was none. Even a light cruiser had virtually no real armour, let's not talk about destroyers - those were tin cans (Read Forester's "The ship" about a light cruiser in the mediterranean sea). A usual tactic for U-boats that had time, and if there was no other danger present, was to shoot 5-10 times at the waterline of a freighter, and finally hole the hatch covers with the 2cm gun to let the air escape to speed up sinking.
U-boats where known of surfacing in convoys and sinking freighters with the deck gun alone, if only during the early years. And imagine explosive shells and a tanker ...

The 8.8 as well as the 10.5 cm was a rapid firing gun, even the marine versions were able to fire 13-15 shots per minute with manual (!) loading.

It seems you want to model an average deck gun kill rate through the whole war, rather than allowing more deck gun kills in the beginning, and making that impossible in the later years to level this out (?). The effect of the 8.8 and 10.5 was disastrous, and it was only because of the danger in the later war (armed mechants, more escorts, air superiority) and risk for a U-boat to be surfaced that the deck gun was not used often any more.


AA guns:

The FlaK (or AA in english) is somehow strange: In the AA training mission i'm supposed to down four planes, ok. I have to hit a Swordfish at least 30 times with a 2cm (=20mm) gun to down it. I see and can count it because there's some debris flying away from the plane's area being hit.

ME Bf 109s and FW 190 planes had 20mm cannons, and it made toast of other planes if they hit properly. If you toned this down to represent the poor hit rate of U-boats downing planes that's ok, but real enemy planes would not fly over the boat again and again at a range i would hit it with a flyswatter. Thinking of Kaminsky defending his boat in the Caribbean sea this sure looks strange.

Remember allied planes did not approach U-boats when they had dropped their bombs, they mostly circled just outside of the AA gun range and asked for support. Allied planes where downed seldomly because no one saw them coming, and it was too late to man the guns. A boat that was well aware of ac attacks would sure hit and down incoming planes, even if that would be the last action. So either the planes need too many hits to be downed, and this needs changing, or the (unseen) ac attacks are not deadly enough, as they were in reality.


Torpedoes:

Regarding torpedoes all i can say is that it is not only the hole and water rushing in that sinks a ship, but the shock of the explosion that destroys bulkheads and tears off steam pipes. Needing more than two torpedoes to sink a 2000 ton freighter ? Come on ...


Thanks for your patience :oops:
Don't get me wrong, i love this mod, it is just that a few thing should be changed imho. It is unbelievable what you guys did with the original SH3 !

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Sorry for the delay on the optional deck gun file... working on it now. I was exhausted.

The "optional deck gun" mod that I will post here will revert the reload time and high explosive shell damage back to stock.

It will not replace the armor piercing rounds that I have removed... that requires a basic.cfg edit and I have no time for that today. I have to finish double checking a larger issue that is time sensitive and will take much of the week.

[Tonnage_Ace]

Kpt. Lehmann, I know your working really hard to fix these and other problems and the deck gun issue has been discussed a lot here despite the fact that I think the damage potential is spot on and only the reload times need to be addressed. It's great that GW has so many optional mods that you can enable to suit your preferences but there's one thing that is really on my mind as far as GW. The night-times are too dark! I think someone else brought this up but if your too busy to look at this problem can you tell me what file/files/values you changed from stock? Maybe I can revert the values back to stock myself until you guys release an official fix? Thanks again.

[midshipsnake]

"But how do you make holes on waterline steel hull
with only HE ammo?

I thought there's no AP ammo in gw deckgun, yet
Kpt. Lehmann is suggesting that we should aim HE
shots at ship's waterline. It'll be like trying to bust middle
age fortress wall with greek fires. :88)

Am I missing something here?" (My earlier post)

NO AP ROUNDS? Come on, dude!!!

I don't know what's more pressing than putting back
working DG and AA gun. I'm sure you didn't do it on
purpose but you virtually disabled important parts of
armament in the game.

I don't feel like playing the game anymore because of
damn DG thing.

xhxt, I want to go back to stock, but hate to lose all the
goodies in GW. What should I do now? :doh:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

"But how do you make holes on waterline steel hull
with only HE ammo?

I thought there's no AP ammo in gw deckgun, yet
Kpt. Lehmann is suggesting that we should aim HE
shots at ship's waterline. It'll be like trying to bust middle
age fortress wall with greek fires. :88)

Am I missing something here?" (My earlier post)

NO AP ROUNDS? Come on, dude!!!

I don't know what's more pressing than putting back
working DG and AA gun. I'm sure you didn't do it on
purpose but you virtually disabled important parts of
armament in the game.

I don't feel like playing the game anymore because of
damn DG thing.

xhxt, I want to go back to stock, but hate to lose all the
goodies in GW. What should I do now? :doh:

I'm sorry you feel that way, but opinions are not bugs.

I'm sick of the age old deck gun debates.

I have done BUCKETS of research on the DG and understand things regarding artillery from personal experience that you may not.

Balancing it in-game so that it remains a SECONDARY weapon that will yield at least some success is a difficult thing.

If you can't be patient enough to wait for tested changes... and want to ditch the whole shebang... You certainly have alternatives.

We've modded 2800 files and counting... I have to make sure ALL are working well... not just one or two.

[midshipsnake]

Dude, they carried AP rounds. I don't know what books
you read but, no more 'I researched and I'm right' stuff,
OK?

http://www.u47.org/english/u47_boa.asp?part=3

or this site:

http://www.uboataces.com/weapon-deck-gun.shtml

(From Tonnage Ace's post)

Like I said, how do you make holes on ship's hull
with HE rounds, eh? Don't just say you have real
experience that I don't. If you know your stuff, you
should be able to answer better.


I can't believe you're trying to make this important
thing a non issue. :nope:

[Catfish]

Hello,
Midshipsnake, i'm sure Mr. Lehmann knows his stuff, no need to push this. You have to understand he does it for free, and if the same argument keeps coming again and again he might as well give up and throw the stuff towards your (or my) direction. However i hope he's so fascinated by SH3 that he will still go on strong with the Grey wolves.

http://www.u47.org/english/u47_boa.asp?part=3

Especially this site is not very professional, to say at least. Quoting the internet doesn't get us far because the same information is copied over all websites again and again, without ever proving anything or having real evidence. Even books are sometimes misleading ...

Believe me, we had the same discussion over and over again when lots of other modders and Beery developed the "RUB" or Real U-boat mod. All those tweaks aimed at a realistic experience, not to make it unnecessarily hard. It is just more balanced towards overall gameplay and historic experiences than to make instant action fun.

" ... Like I said, how do you make holes on ship's hull
with HE rounds, eh? ... "

Well, use the Ex ammunition instead of HE until there's a new mod -

Greetings,
Catfish

@Lehmann: I bet you are exhausted after changing some thousand files and testing that every time. Just take your time, we'll be here for sure :yep:

[JonZ]

The AP is not the issue.

The whole purpose of nerfing the deck gun was to make it useless as it was at the time. You cannot use the DG unless it finish of a cripled ship.

I have yet to read successful stories about the deck guns. Sure some will point me to some link showing some u-Boat victory over a small merchant ship with the DG, but the point is it was actually very rare and the last thing to do.

[thyro]

The AP is not the issue.

The whole purpose of nerfing the deck gun was to make it useless as it was at the time. You cannot use the DG unless it finish of a cripled ship.

I have yet to read successful stories about the deck guns. Sure some will point me to some link showing some u-Boat victory over a small merchant ship with the DG, but the point is it was actually very rare and the last thing to do.

opening discusion about DG and the missing AP in GW...

So whats the point of all this?

is GW meant to be a bit more realist than standard SH3 or not?

For example to pin-down a ship (like a large merchant/tanker) in GW would take beside 1 torp, from 50 to more than 100 shots (HE only).

This seem to be far from real (actually SH3 standard Deck Gun seem more realistic in this respect)

Other matter is Uboats didn't carry more than 220 units of HE (again other deviation to suite other purposes beyond reality).

Edited

I give you a simple example:

A simple PT boat took 57 shots of HE and remained afloat.

And to sink it I had to recurr to ram it because I was wasting too many ammo in a tiny little boat... eventually it sank after ramming.


<-- Back to my bridge

[Kpt. Lehmann]

http://files.filefront.com/Stock_Gun_Damage__Reload_for_GWzip/;4936286;;/fileinfo.html

This mod replaces the 4 second stock reload rate for the deck guns.

This mod also reverts the shell damage potential back to stock.

For GW users, this does not add AP rounds back in.

Kpt. Lehmann

Feel free to use this mod in your personal game or for inclusion in mod packs.

No permission will be given for this mod to be used to obtain commercial gain.

This mod is JGSME compatible.

Use this mod at your own risk.

[Catfish]

Hello,
Kpt. Lehmann, this was fast - thank you.

@Jonz: you wrote " ...The whole purpose of nerfing the deck gun was to make it useless as it was at the time. You cannot use the DG unless it finish of a cripled ship. ... I have yet to read successful stories about the deck guns".

I cannot show a website, but i can quote some books. I still have to find the passages again though, so i'll need time. The deck guns became somehow obsolete in 1943, but even after some were still used in the caribbean and along the coast of Africa.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

[midshipsnake]

:D :D Thank you, Kpt.! :D :D

[Kpt. Lehmann]

http://files.filefront.com/NYGM_Compliant_SMzip/;4936415;;/fileinfo.html

I am re-posting this to make sure that all are on the same sheet of music regarding the currently available NYGM beta 1.39 ship damage model compliant small merchant from Teddy Barr's Tonnage war mod.

Includes .sim, .zon, and Equip files. No changes to these files were made by the GW team.

Kpt. Lehmann

Feel free to use this mod in your personal game or for inclusion in mod packs.

No permission will be given for this mod to be used to obtain commercial gain.

This mod is JGSME compatible.

Use this mod at your own risk.

[vodkajello]

This is a perfect example of why devs should solicit response for their projects online. He asked what we don't like and what we are having problems with, then he provided fixes for the most nagging problems in a timely manner. (and he did all of this with a job too!)

I wrote this little spot because there are other issues involved which only furthered my respect for K.L.

He obviously doesn't agree with a large portion of the players out there in regards to the power of the deck gun. Yet he listened and provided a fix to those users who found it too tough to help them out with their enjoyment of SH3 and the GW mod.

This partial reversion to the former unrealistic uberDG may never be integrated back into the full blown GW package. But he at least provided a very easy to apply package for those of us who requested something be done. He could have just told us to shut it, and that nothing would be done because it is how he wants it to be. Instead, he took the problem and worked a solution that fit our requests. He still managed to fit his vision for where he wants GW to go in the future and help his users.

I hope this fix goes into the docs and optional folder of the next official release. Until then will it be hosted up on realsim so I can link to it from the FAQ/Errata page?

Thanks K.L., I'm tipping my hat to you again!

[vodkajello]

A bit of confusion on my part....

Are the NYGM_Compliant_SM files the same as what came in the GW 1.0 package? GW used 1.39 NYGM damage mod, so we already have these ones right? This is just to make sure people have unaltered files from the original GW?

NYGM_Compliant_SM is different than GW_Armed_Trawler_Fix.zip. Correct?

[Kpt. Lehmann]

A bit of confusion on my part....

Are the NYGM_Compliant_SM files the same as what came in the GW 1.0 package? GW used 1.39 NYGM damage mod, so we already have these ones right? This is just to make sure people have unaltered files from the original GW?

NYGM_Compliant_SM is different than GW_Armed_Trawler_Fix.zip. Correct?

Mainly I was making sure that nothing was left out. A couple of mistakes have been un-covered and the small merchant fix is mostly a CYA issue.

I suspect one of the Bittorrent downloads might have been incomplete or corrupt.

...and Vodkajello... thanks for your thoughts a couple of posts back.

[JonZ]

Hello,
Kpt. Lehmann, this was fast - thank you.

@Jonz: you wrote " ...The whole purpose of nerfing the deck gun was to make it useless as it was at the time. You cannot use the DG unless it finish of a cripled ship. ... I have yet to read successful stories about the deck guns".

I cannot show a website, but i can quote some books. I still have to find the passages again though, so i'll need time. The deck guns became somehow obsolete in 1943, but even after some were still used in the caribbean and along the coast of Africa.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

Did you read my entire post?
I said even if someone pointed me that a u-Boat had a victory against a merchant it doesn't change the fact it was underpowered, hence the removal of the DG in 1943. So the GWDG is pretty realistic IMHO and should not even came close to a Torpedo damage in a decent fire rate.

I could agree to one thing, Torpedos could be more effective smaller tonners instead of taking 3-4 torpedos. :shifty:

[Tonnage_Ace]

"But how do you make holes on waterline steel hull
with only HE ammo?

I thought there's no AP ammo in gw deckgun, yet
Kpt. Lehmann is suggesting that we should aim HE
shots at ship's waterline. It'll be like trying to bust middle
age fortress wall with greek fires. :88)

Am I missing something here?" (My earlier post)

NO AP ROUNDS? Come on, dude!!!

I don't know what's more pressing than putting back
working DG and AA gun. I'm sure you didn't do it on
purpose but you virtually disabled important parts of
armament in the game.

I don't feel like playing the game anymore because of
damn DG thing.

xhxt, I want to go back to stock, but hate to lose all the
goodies in GW. What should I do now? :doh:

I'm sorry you feel that way, but opinions are not bugs.

I'm sick of the age old deck gun debates.

I have done BUCKETS of research on the DG and understand things regarding artillery from personal experience that you may not.

Balancing it in-game so that it remains a SECONDARY weapon that will yield at least some success is a difficult thing.

If you can't be patient enough to wait for tested changes... and want to ditch the whole shebang... You certainly have alternatives.

We've modded 2800 files and counting... I have to make sure ALL are working well... not just one or two.
You said you were sick of the deck gun debates but you ignored my previous post about the overly-dark night-time, just to address the deck gun debacle further...If you have problems with the deck gun issues people, just get SH3 Commander and change the reload values to 4 seconds. The whole issue with these unsinkable ships baffles me as I'm using GW and haven't had a problem.

[thyro]

GW missed a small detail

The current game date is: June 12, 1941 at 23:43 local time

My base is Lorient and I was on my way to the sea for another trivial patrol mission.

I often pass through a sub (npc) going up river (to the port)... beside other sub that is also stationary in the docks... All to well with a small detail exception...

Both subs are VIIC/41 type.

If I'm not wrong, VIIC/41 will be released some day in October 1943

PS: Let me know if you need some printscreen. Thanks

[Kpt. Lehmann]

@ TONNAGE ACE

I didn't ignore your post regarding night-time skies being overly dark. I simply missed it.

This problem is monitor, and possibly video-card related. It is the reason that TWO different variants of the atmosphere mods were created for both 8km and 16km visibility mods to accommodate those people who are having those kinds of problems.
The 8km "Lighter Skies" variant is the default for GW. The other variants are located in the GW optional mods file.

All I can recommend for you now is to make sure you are using the lighter skies variant and adjust the properties of your monitor.

[Catfish]

Hello JonZ,

you wrote "... Did you read my entire post?
I said even if someone pointed me that a u-Boat had a victory against a merchant it doesn't change the fact it was underpowered, hence the removal of the DG in 1943. ... "

I think i did read it, that is why i posted another opinion. The deck gun was not underpowered relating to other deck guns, in fact it was not removed because of its weakness or inability to sink ships, but because surface attacks by U-boats had become too chancy, due to air superiority but especially (in 1943) because almost all freighters had been equipped with guns and MGs. U-boats were too vulnerable in surface encounters. They were able to sink defenseless merchants with the deck gun, but they would not try in a battle. Anyway there is no evidence (Peillard, Cremer, Ott and others) that a merchant ever sank a U-boat.

If you think of installing a 20 cm gun this would have been probably able to sink merchants with a few shots, but this was never an option.

Hitting merchants from 2000 or more meters was probably "possible", but it was not done apart from a warning shot before the bow. That's why i asked if it would be possible to make it harder to hit remote targets (the auto-leveling gun countering wave action came with a lot of problems).

I understand you in a way that there has to be a "virtual" disadvantage in the early war to compensate for the impossibility in the later war. Thus the overall sinking rate with the deck gun is somehow levelled out over the six years of the war. But this is not necessary, i would never attack an armed surface target from 1943 on in the game, because the in-game merchants will instantly ruin my boat. The hit rate of the merchants in the later war is just too good. So if you want a "levelled" deck gun performance this is already there - in my opinion, that is.

I'll just try it out and go back to the original GW deck gun modeling when it's to easy for me.

Thanks and greetings,
Catfish

[geralt]

I have to join Tonnage_Ace begging for less dark night. I'm using the 16km light version but it's simply too dark for may monitor (I know it is a monitor issue). I have to turn bright and contast setting to it's highest values then I'm able to see the ocean, sky, watch on the bridge etc. BUT the interier is TOO bright black is not black but grey (really bad in command room) and the worst case is scope and UZO view torpedo panel and the whole right side shines as sun and I'm not able to recognise water from sky (I can dream about ships)...I know that night shold be dark but

my setup: ATi X800GTO and CRT monitor Samsung 959NF

I've tried:
- increase gamma value (not good black is not black)
- lowering contrast in periscope.tga and uzo.tag (in photoshop)
- make the radmask darker
nothing really helped

I know that night shold be dark in real life but then I couldn't perform any night action. (where is the moon??)

other GW related comments:
I've added following things to my GW install so I wuld really happy to see them in next update (some of them)
- integrated orders
- Sale's 6anzeigensimfeeling
- precision scope
- NYGM enhanced navmap plotting tools and 1500m bearing overlay
- Rubini's United campaign
- quiter tic-tacking
- some minor personal adjustments eg. radio messages font (nothing important)

DG theme:
I agree the DG is secondary weapon mostly used for finishing crippled ships. Large cargo after 2 torps hit waiting for it's end then 50-60 88mm rounds and it's gone. I use 10s realod time.

Damage model:
It would be nice to have some 1 torp ships even if non-critical hit. I know the NYGM damage model is still developing so I'll hope next versions will bring some evolution.

sorry for so long multi-thematic post

and of course the whole GW team :rock: :rock: :rock:

[vodkajello]

As a solution to the not light enough nights.....I use the 16km Light version. If the night is not light enough for me I use a tool called ATItraytool to add gamma correction to a set of hot keys. So on my PC Ctrl-Alt-numpad plus and Ctrl-Alt-numpad minus control my gamma correction.

On my LCD screen the middle is a bit darker than the sides when displaying really dark colours, so this gamma correction thing was really needed for me.

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=733

[JonZ]

I don't know if it has been discussed but I discovered the Recognition manual don't open on these following countries:

Albanien
Belgien
Kolumbien
Tschechien
Danemark
Estland
Finnland
Ungarn
Irland
Lettland
Litauen
Mexico
Portugal
Slowakei

and

Red Cross.


Only the title on the recognition manual show, but I can't open.

I also find the italien's warship seems to not been named properly
(scharnhorst battlecruiser is instead named Italien BattleCruiser)

These may be minor changes, I was concerned about these issues because of my release of the new improved Recognition manual.

[thyro]

Lights on Neutral ships.

Ships belonging to neutral countries don't have their lights on, either have navigation lights on.

Would be possible for all ships beloging to neutral countries have lights on... navigation lights, lights at their aft - to show ship's name (of course SH3 doesn't have names on ships - but can simulate the protocol) and flag.

Its normal that ships of countries at war avoid to switch on their lights to remain unseen at distance.

But that is not a rule for ships of countries that aren't at war, because would be normal and preferable have all lights on to be reconized as neutral.

Cheers

[zzsteven]

Lights on Neutral ships.

Ships belonging to neutral countries don't have their lights on, either have navigation lights on.

Would be possible for all ships beloging to neutral countries have lights on... navigation lights, lights at their aft - to show ship's name (of course SH3 doesn't have names on ships - but can simulate the protocol) and flag.

Its normal that ships of countries at war avoid to switch on their lights to remain unseen at distance.

But that is not a rule for ships of countries that aren't at war, because would be normal and preferable have all lights on to be reconized as neutral.

Cheers

You may have missed this thread: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49308

zz

[thyro]

Lights on Neutral ships.

Ships belonging to neutral countries don't have their lights on, either have navigation lights on.

Would be possible for all ships beloging to neutral countries have lights on... navigation lights, lights at their aft - to show ship's name (of course SH3 doesn't have names on ships - but can simulate the protocol) and flag.

Its normal that ships of countries at war avoid to switch on their lights to remain unseen at distance.

But that is not a rule for ships of countries that aren't at war, because would be normal and preferable have all lights on to be reconized as neutral.

Cheers

You may have missed this thread: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49308

zz

I'm sorry but...No! I haven't missed that one... I read it when it started

In fact that one clear indicate that might be feasable and I bet it that might appear someday in GW...

However since nobody addressed this issue here under GW subject for enchancement...

I felt compelled to post here. Especially after intercepting several Brazilian ships cruising near North Africa. In pitch black background and in stormy waters is quite hard to see a flag from a periscope... any ship with a blackout is a potential target.

I reckon that "lights on" is a comum practice on neutral ships, to avoid to be destroyed by any of the countries at war.

Cheers :)

[Schiffmorder]

I just finished my first patrol. Suffered yet another crash to desktop, lost nothing but some time... What I am wondering about is that after sinking 43K tons there were no promotions for myself or crew, and no medals either... is this to be expected?

[zzsteven]

Lights on Neutral ships.

Ships belonging to neutral countries don't have their lights on, either have navigation lights on.

Would be possible for all ships beloging to neutral countries have lights on... navigation lights, lights at their aft - to show ship's name (of course SH3 doesn't have names on ships - but can simulate the protocol) and flag.

Its normal that ships of countries at war avoid to switch on their lights to remain unseen at distance.

But that is not a rule for ships of countries that aren't at war, because would be normal and preferable have all lights on to be reconized as neutral.

Cheers

You may have missed this thread: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49308

zz

I'm sorry but...No! I haven't missed that one... I read it when it started

In fact that one clear indicate that might be feasable and I bet it that might appear someday in GW...

However since nobody addressed this issue here under GW subject for enchancement...

I felt compelled to post here. Especially after intercepting several Brazilian ships cruising near North Africa. In pitch black background and in stormy waters is quite hard to see a flag from a periscope... any ship with a blackout is a potential target.

I reckon that "lights on" is a comum practice on neutral ships, to avoid to be destroyed by any of the countries at war.

Cheers :)

It's an interesting WIP. Hopefully Sergbuto can make it work and it gets intergrated into the mods.

cheers
zz

[thyro]

http://rapidshare.de/files/16690841/GW_Armed_Trawler_Fix.zip.html

The above link is for the promised armed trawler fix.

Added missing Cfg file for this vessel and correct .zon file

I apologize for the inconvenience.

Much appreciation to Teddy Barr for providing a corrected .zon file

Hi Kpt Lehmann / Teddy Barr

I need some help here.

I'm stucked inside an enemy port with a armed trawler right in front, my torps pass right through it making no effect.

Is not a range issue because the armor trawler is 630m from me)

I saw your post (that I quote) and I've update the GW with the above file. But when I tried to reload the save-game I got a CTD.

I've now rollback to the old .zon leaving the .cfg... no CTD on loading the save...

But I'm also back to the same problem... torps don't affect Armor Trawler.

:help:

[Captain Wreckless]

Also, in line with realistic modelling aims GW has reduced the
damage potential of the deck guns which is explained below.

Armor piercing rounds have been removed from the GW mod as our
research indicates that typically the only type of round
carried by the U-boats was "HE" or "High-Explosive."

Furthermore, the crew when ordered to the deck gun takes time
to load the first shell... instead of the instant BANG you got
in stock SH3.

A little compromise we made too was including 20 starshell
lumination rounds per boat and extended the range of the
starshell closer to the range of a standard HE round. In real
life you can shoot one just as far as the other... I've done
it.


With all of the discussion about AP rounds in Uboats, here's something I found at Uboataces.com under deck gun attacks:

Although intended primarily as a defensive weapon, the deck gun however could be used against stragglers and unescorted merchants, and some ships, particularly tankers could be sunk at leisure, even in daylight. It was also useful in conserving the limited torpedo supply and to finish off the kill of a ship crippled by a torpedo.

A small watertight locker stowed near the gun held a few more rounds ready for use, providing an advantage during the first few vital seconds of engagements. This also meant that crash dives took longer than usual, as the gun had to be secured and crew rushed below deck. There were no range finders, so engagements had to be done at close range. With an experienced crew, the rate of fire was between 15 to 18 rounds per minute. Three types of ammunition could be fired; armor piercing, high explosive and star burst (flare).

An attack could be aimed at the target’s bridge, waterline or weapon systems. Attacking the bridge will hinder the victim’s steering ability, while attacking at the hull’s waterline would quickly sink the ship. Attacking the weapon’s systems will hinder the victim’s ability to fire back, but it takes just one unlucky shell to penetrate the U-boat’s hull which will make diving impossible. Armor piercing shells are better suited to hull attacks, while high explosive could be used against other targets.


U-boat Deck Gun Specification
88mm
Used In Type VII
Caliber 88mm (3.46in)
Traverse 360 degrees
Elevation -4 to +30 degrees
Breech Semi Automatic
Ammunition
High Explosive
Weight 13.7kg
Muzzle Velocity 700m/s
Range 12,350m
Armor Piercing
Weight 13.9kg
Star Shell
Weight 11.2kg

105mm
Used In Type IA, IX XB
Caliber 105mm (4.13in)
Traverse 360 degrees
Elevation -3 to +30 degrees
Breech Semi Automatic
Ammunition
High Explosive
Weight 23.3kg
Muzzle Velocity 785m/s
Range 15,350m
Armor Piercing
Weight 23.3kg
Star Shell
Weight 14.7kg


So it looks like they had all three types of ammo. I don't know alot about uboataces.com 'cuz I just found it, but it looks like a in-depth site.

CW :ahoy:

[Sailor Steve]

If it's at a website, it's suspect, especially if they don't cite a source.

Naval Weapons of World War Two, by NJM Campbell, lists every gun used by any nation during the war, including mounting types and ammo. While he doesn't specifically rule out AP and SS rounds for U-boats, he does say in his listings for the 8.8cm and 10.5cm guns "including Armour Piercing and Star Shell for minesweepers and patrol craft".

I'll trust the most respected expert in the field over any website.

[Captain Wreckless]

Here's an interesting tidbit I found on deck gun attacks by U-35 during WWI. Commander Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière commanding.

U-35

U-23-class submarine. L/B/D: 212.2 × 20.7 × 11.5 (25.3 high) (64.7m × 6.3m × 3.5m/7.7m). Tons: 685/878 disp. Hull: steel. Comp.: 35. Arm.: 4 × 20TT; 1 × 8.8cm. Mach.: diesels/batteries, 2,000/1,200 ehp, 2 screws; 16.4/9.7 kts. Built: Friedrich Krupp AG Germaniawerft, Kiel, Germany; 1914.

On July 26, U-35 sailed from Cattaro and over the next 25 days sank 54 ships—more than any other submarine commander of any country in either of the two world wars—with an aggregate tonnage of more than 90,150 tons. The vast majority of these sinkings were in surface attacks, and in the course of the cruise, von Arnauld used only four torpedoes.

Gray, U-Boat War. Halpern, Naval War in the Mediterranean

CW :ahoy:

P.S. Extra tidbit: During his war time career, he fired only four torpedoes (one miss) and sank his victims (194 ships totalling 454,000 tons) always strictly according to prize rules with his boat's 88 mm deck gun. Sea Classics May '04

[Captain Wreckless]

If it's at a website, it's suspect, especially if they don't cite a source.

I'll trust the most respected expert in the field over any website.

It's possible that with no sources cited the info could be suspect, but I found some of the same info at both uboat.net and uboataces.com. I suspect more than a few folks on this forum and others go to uboat.net regularly for their information.

I fired off an email to the web owner of uboataces.com for the sources he used in the article.

CW :ahoy:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Uboat.net has been my primary "source" website. However, without going into detail, even Uboat.net has long before today been shown to contain periodic mistakes.

Many other sites have information that conflicts with other sites and you can consider each of them "fairly reliable" sources and I am certain that each webmaster has the best of intentions....

NOW... if you want to impress me with data... quote from Clay Blair's works as I consider him to be one of the top two U-boat research gods... the other being Horst Bredow of the Uboat Archiv.

Do not make the mistake of thinking that I have not carefully considered the deck gun issue. There have been miles of strenous discussion regarding the same before many of you came here.

I have read all of your complaints and sources regarding the DG and have taken them under advisement.

You have all made your points.

There will be some changes to the deck gun in our upcoming update. (hopefully in 2-3 weeks) However, the deck gun was a secondary weapon in real life and it will remain officially so in GW.

If you must, then you can consider it to be an arbitrary decision by me.

An interesting tidbit for you... in stock SH3... Uboat AP rounds did less damage than HE rounds according to the numbers I have seen while modding that file. Furthermore, I have yet to see any reference to "armor penetration" in the SH3 files while modding weapon profiles.
Simply nerfing the HP damage potential upwards for the AP round... DOES NOT reflect the intended nature or characteristics of an AP round. Therefore it makes the concept of an AP round in SH3 rather useless...

... so we dropped it in-line with source data that either conflicted and/or did not include a stated ammo load-out for different boats.
NOWHERE have I seen a listing of how many AP rounds were carried by each boat.

Uboat.net (with a little digging) gives a "total number of rounds carried" listing for each boat, and this is what we went by.

Even further in stock SH3... The first round would be fired from the deck gun instantly as if it had been loaded all along. Another benefit of dropping the AP round type causes the SH3 Uboat crew to load the next available round type (HE) and restored the load-time for the first round in the process.

So you see, there is a reason for everything... even the things I have not discussed here... which I will cover when the changes are made for the update.

This is the GW Eratta Report thread... not a deck gun discussion thread.

If you aren't happy with it feel free to mod it for your game however you wish to. Only you can make you happy in the end.

[JonZ]

Cannot agree more.

Great post.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

...Is anyone else not getting a score for sinking small merchant? I sank 3 last patrol(saw them go down) And didnt get credit? Im running SH Commander and GW..... help!!! thanks

Did you upgrade equipment before or after your first patrol?

[Captain Wreckless]

Has anyone else had any graphics corruption problems? I had the TDC screen go completely unreadable. All of the dials fragmented and were spread all over the screen. I couldn't use any of them.

I tried restarting the game, but nothing changed. Maybe a corrupted D/L?

CW :ahoy:

[thyro]

Its just my game or everyone would get the same?

Everytime that I save the game near Valletta(Malta Island)... then I try to load the save-game, it loads (almost) after the "Not so long ago..." follows a CTD.

Could someone try this please? Thanks

[Firebird]

You're sure you didn't overwrite another save?