More Kids Are Getting Anti-Psychotic Drugs

[STEED]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060317/ap_on_he_me/psychiatric_drugs_kids

Is this a wise thing to do? It seems abit odd this one.

[SUBMAN1]

Problem is - Doctors can be sued for not perscribing anything! Welcome to your world.


-S

[Kapitan]

Kids who have ADHD are given a drug that has similar properties to cocaine, and they wonder why they become addicted :nope: :down:

[TteFAboB]

Seems like we'll find out soon, won't we? :rotfl:

Nothing like a large open sample group to figure it out.

[mog]

ADD has got to be one of the most successful marketing ploys in history: make up some faux-disorder that gives parents an excuse for their child being lazy and unmotivated, and offer them a cure for a price.

Who knows what the long-term effects of these drugs are, but it's quite possible these kids will end up with a real psychological disorder instead of an invented one.

[The Avon Lady]

ADD has got to be one of the most successful marketing ploys in history: make up some faux-disorder that gives parents an excuse for their child being lazy and unmotivated, and offer them a cure for a price.
You're half right. There is definitely such a thing as ADHD but doctors too often go overboard to diagnose normal children as having ADHD.

There was a news article about this several months ago on Yahoo News but I can't find it now. Plenty of information on the Web about the trend to misdiagnose and over-prescribe.

[Skybird]

Illustrates the general trend towards "easy solutions for a simple life." first we had religious experiences. Then we went down to ethics and values, then we retreated to psychological techniques. Now we have pills. Next probably is wires in our brains. After that - exitus?

[The Avon Lady]

Illustrates the general trend towards "easy solutions for a simple life." first we had religious experiences.
Actually, first we had deviation from religious obligations. This would describe the generations both before the flood at the time of Noah and after the flood, from before Nimrod's appearance and onward.

If G-d is fact and not fiction and if humanity is commanded to obey certain obligations commanded by G-d, whatever they may be, the easy solution for the simple life in this world is to do what you want.

I'm just sayin'........ :roll:

[Skybird]

And I thought obeying commands, no matter if by a general or a god, is the easiest way to go: no thinking, no finding out ourselves, no responsebility for the consequences of what we do: we just did what we are ordered and what is written down by our ancestors, we are not guilty, we just followed orders. Like lemmings. And even if we mess it up, when we did so by following the ancient orders, we will nevertheless be saved, for gods will twist and bend all universe just for us. We are still the navel of all universe.

That's why I talked of religious experience. Which is antagonistic to the existence of any gods invented and declared by mankind, imo. Religion has no place for idols, only for immediate, direct life.

[The Avon Lady]

And I thought obeying commands, no matter if by a general or a god, is the easiest way to go: no thinking, no finding out ourselves, no responsebility for the consequences of what we do: we just did what we are ordered and what is written down by our ancestors, we are not guilty, we just followed orders. Like lemmings.
Au contraire!

You have decisions to make day in and day out. Who says it's easy? Maybe there's a built-in inclination in you that says do your own thing and that's where the struggle takes place?

You are responsible and maybe not just to yourself but to others and must set an example.

It's not so simple. Not at all. Or at least possibly not at all.
And even if we mess it up, when we did so by following the ancient orders, we will nevertheless be saved, for gods will twist and bend all universe just for us.
Not in my manual. :nope: Lot of catastrophic failures. :dead:
We are still the navel of all universe.
That you are!
That's why I talked of religious experience. Which is antagonistic to the existence of any gods invented and declared by mankind, imo. Religion has no place for idols, only for immediate, direct life.
Not sure what you're saying in this last paragraph.

[TLAM Strike]

If G-d is fact and not fiction and if humanity is commanded to obey certain obligations commanded by G-d, whatever they may be, the easy solution for the simple life in this world is to do what you want.
Wouldn’t that make god just a dictator? Think about it (s)he/it is a being not chosen by its followers (generally someone choose it for you). Arbitrarily creates law with out the oversight of the people, and punishes lawbreakers with eternal torture in a pit of fire (that’s got to violate 'no cruel and unusual punishment').

As an American I say god is unconstitutional! :lol:

[Skybird]

AL,

It seems to me we were just like two highspeed trains meeting on mid-route and passing each other with 180° different directions. :lol: I have no cue what your want to say, and in how far your posting structure adresses the quotes by me.

Some believe in idols and think that is a virtue in itself, others don't. So it goes. I myself never saw any need for idols. Being aware that whatever I do causes consequences, made me stay "en guarde" and alarmed far more than worrying if I am in congruence with this or that ancient law. One can follow laws woithiut understanding the Why of them. then they turn into a simple habit, and turn the follower into a robot who does not know his programming. How freedom could come from that remains mystery to me. That is my understanding of justice: that nothing will be forgotten, no matter if for the good or the bad. That way man is creating his own fate of the future. Heaven and hell are - our states of mind.

Anyhow, I initially just wanted to say that our society favours the easier way, the way with less complexity, with less responsebility, and higher simplicity. Why asking questions? Just take a pill, and back to business as usual.

[The Avon Lady]

Jewish perspectives on free will:

Beyond The Matrix: Free Will & Destiny (http://www.aish.com/seminars/matrix/free_will_and_destiny.asp), for the moviegoers among you.

For a less illustrated read:

Free Will - Our Greatest Power (http://www.aish.com/spirituality/foundations/Free_Will_-_Our_Greatest_Power.asp), from which I excerpt for Skybird's reference:
"To be or not to be, that is the question.
Whether to withstand the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
or by taking arms against fate... to end it all."
- William Shakespeare
Judaism says the opposite. Greatness lies in how we resolve conflicts - in using our free will to grow - not to quit. To face reality - not to escape. To live and not to die. When we escape problems, we escape the chance of becoming great. It's a constant battle every moment of our lives.
Pardon me, boy, is that the Chattanooga choo choo? ;)

[Skybird]

Must I feel adressed...? :hmm: Interesting stuff, but I wonder why you think this is an answer to something that I (should) have said. Nowhere I spoke of "quitting" and "evading reality". My argument is that you excatly do this if leaving all responsebility to form your stand in the world to the commandments of a god your ancestors have created - an idol, that is. I feel very much in congruence with Buddha's reasoning, or Nietzsche's thoughts, or Christian mystic in general here. So why do you think you need to give these links as an answer to me? Or have I got you wrong somewhere? Or did you feel I am criticising Judaism in any way with my above remarks? If so, that was not intended. I simply do not know it well enough to start writing long essays about it :)

[The Avon Lady]

Must I feel adressed...? :hmm: Interesting stuff, but I wonder why you think this is an answer to something that I (should) have said. Nowhere I spoke of "quitting" and "evading reality". My argument is that you excatly do this if leaving all responsebility to form your stand in the world to the commandments of a god your ancestors have created - an idol, that is. I feel very much in congruence with Buddha's reasoning, or Nietzsche's thoughts, or Christian mystic in general here. So why do you think you need to give these links as an answer to me? Or have I got you wrong somewhere? Or did you feel I am criticising Judaism in any way with my above remarks? If so, that was not intended.
I was simply responding to your initial claim that religion make life easier. It ain't necessarily so.
I simply do not know it well enough to start writing long essays about it :)
THANK G-D! :rotfl:

[Skybird]

No, I said not religion, but just obeying commands (without questioning them) makes life easier/simplier, and keeps a man simple-minded, for he escapes the responsebility to make his own decisions, live with the consequences, and having to justify his deeds. and when this nevertheless became too tough a burden, he declared the maker of these laws a dead body, and siwtched to techniques, and then to pills. No step in this falldown has anything to do with religion as I understand it, and no creation of an idol ir religion, nor it's destruction again - it'S just self-centered fiction that has nothing to do with it.

[kiwi_2005]

Religeon wont help. :nope:

Working does. Work, work, work, keeps a man from going insane i say! When i wasn't working for approx 6 months i just about went nuts. No i DID go nuts. Waking up doing nothing, sitting around finding fault with everything is not healthy. Soon as i started working it was like waking up from a bad dream. Now i work from home, it doesn't seem like work cos i get up and start when i want too. But just the fact that i know i have a job to do each day keeps the demons away :) I now jump out of bed with so much energy and im happy. Before i wouldn't get out of bed till way in the afternoon i would just ly there and think about why the world sucks :yep:

I know a guy here in our town that hanged himself from a tree in the park, he lost his job, had a family to feed etc., and just could not see any light at the end of the tunnel so he ended it all he was only 34. and left behind a wonderful wife and 3 kids. Really sad he tried to get help but his problem was no work. He became very religous, well it did nothing for him !. Religeon might help alot for ppl, but for others its blardy more of a burden than anything else. Believing God/Jesus aint going to get you out of trouble. Work is.

[kiwi_2005]

Anyways, what i wanted to say (got carried away there in my last post) A friends son is on ADD pills being on it since 5 hes now 12. During his birth something happened, dont know the term or name of it but his head was pretty large when he came out? Anyways this kid needs the pills hes like a demon when he aint on it. The foul language that comes from his mouth is unbelievable, he tears up places, completly goes off his rocker. The pills give his mother alot of rest. He calm and like a normal kid when on them. He also goes to a special school cos hes one of the extreme cases. But ADD Medication does help for the bad cases.

[Iceman]

Believing God/Jesus aint going to get you out of trouble. Work is.

You right on the money.Faith without works is dead....

Luke 8
[5] A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
[6] And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
[7] And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
[8] And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[9] And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
[10] And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
[11] Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
[12] Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
[13] They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
[14] And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
[15] But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
[16] No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
[17] For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
[18] Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.


Luke 9
[23] And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
[24] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
[25] For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
[26] For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
[27] But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.


And the subsimmers went away sad for they had many games...


PS...my son has taken concerta now for over 3 yrs at least during school months...summer months he is off them ..he had alot of trouble concentrating in school...now in 5th grade he is the best reader in the school for 5th grade....no joking....
I believe that everything on this Earth was put here for man to use at his disposal and not to make full use of it is folly.. on the same note...man has gotten along without many many things for thousands of yrs and everything cant be solved with a pill...sometimes ya gotta smoke the cure. :) jk :|\

[kiwi_2005]

You gotta question God, yeah he exist but why work in the mysterieous ways. Why? Take the story of Job, what a good man, then satan comes visit God and says to him hey dude i bet i can make Job change his mind about you huh? Give me the power to ruin his life and yep i promise i wont kill him. So God goes well oh ok fool here ya go but im warning ya Job is one of my favourties.
So Satan goes off and practically destroys Jobs life, kills his sons, and gives him a nasty disease to try and turn him away from God. But Job doesn't faultler and at the end God rewards him with many abundance etc., Why did God allow it in the first place. So he could prove Satan wrong? Or did he have doubts about himself?

Aren't we all Gods lost sheep and he the sheperd, or we are his children and him our Father? Ok what Father would let his children be killed etc., by others. What Father would sit there and watch whats happening and do nothing?

Yep He God works in Mysterious ways.

[Iceman]

First ..I...do not know the mind of God.

I try to look at it from the point of view of what is good and evil....what is the nature of both.Obvious to me is evil in that kill,steal,destroy pretty much sums it up and kaos reigns which is why it has taken sooooo long for evil to take control of the world...it is simply not in it's nature to be able to coordinate and control itself....but God or good to me is more of a mystery...in that...If God...being a divine entity with the power to create life from nothing...must abide by the Law of good in that ...it could not force it's will upon any creation...period....else it would divide its self and come to an end....

So God creating all life and having to let each creation make it's own individual choices Satan included....it was not God who came up with the idea to tempt Job but I like to think God put His money on Job not surrendering to evil...and maybe giving little helps where He could......

Look farther down the road...look at God in the Garden of Eden when the Fall happened...He had to make a choice....and the Angels asked Him...Should We Reap?...and He said no lest we destroy the whole crop...of men...let the Earth grow...wheat with the chaff and when the harvest is ready we will reap and seperate the wheat form the chaff....God did not make the world the way it is WE did...He only provides a way out to those who would take it...freely.

[kiwi_2005]

Look farther down the road...look at God in the Garden of Eden when the Fall happened...He had to make a choice....and the Angels asked Him...Should We Reap?...and He said no lest we destroy the whole crop...of men...let the Earth grow...wheat with the chaff and when the harvest is ready we will reap and seperate the wheat form the chaff....God did not make the world the way it is WE did...He only provides a way out to those who would take it...freely.

Good point.