Arggghhh, ever have "one of those days"

[Adlerkopf]

All,

I've owned SHIII since the day of it's release, played for a while and then set it down. Now, the past 2-3 weeks I've really been getting back into it. Especially have finding these boards and all the wonderful new mods. Not to mention some of the stories and logs that have been posted (like the U-46 tale) that really inspire one to want to get out on patrol ASAP.

As a newbie I figured I'd share a little incident from an SHIII session I had last night as only the members of these boards can probably relate to my pain.

I start SHIII and start my career. It's Dec. '41 and I'm in my IXC (The Adlerkopf) U-125. Orders are to sail to Grid BF19 and patrol. I think "great, a nice short hop, and it's in an area of heavy activity". So, I merrily plot a course and my crew and I head out of Lorient with expectations of a glorious patrol.

Well, after what seemed like forever getting out of Lorient (I've got the Harbor Traffic mod 1.47 going) and navigating the mine and nets, we finally hit open sea and make a bee-line for our patrol grid. We arrive without incident and begin our patrol. The whole thing comes and goes without any contacts at all. I send a patrol report and get the usual "be more aggressive" message from BdU. So I decide to skim the western side of Irelend hoping to find someone to tangle with there.

After 2 days of no contacts I'm ready to head home. Just then we get a message that there is a large convoy moving NNE just south of us. Yes!! I adjust couse and prepare for the hunt. after a while I get a report of a ship spotted. It's a Clemson class destroyer heading due west. I adjust course and think "our first catch of the day". I get in position and let loose 2 eels. Much to my horror I see (on the Event cam) that I've set the depth too low and both fish harmlessly sail under the destroyer. Now they know we're hear. They adjust course and head right at me. Through the periscope I order tubes 3 and 4 to fire. The destroyer starts to turn and I know both fish will miss, DAMN!!

I order a dive to 40m and hard to starboard. I can hear him start pinging and I'm thinking "crap, this is gonna hurt". He, for some reason, manages to not pick us up and goes right overhead. about 10sec. later he starts DC'ing. What luck!! I go rudder amidships and can hear him moving to my port side, he DC's some more but he's clearly just guessing. After a while I'm listening on the hydrophones and can hear him at 355 degrees moving away. I come up to periscope depth and see him making a bee-line away from us. I think "now I've got you" and then it dawns on me that he might have been the western edge ot the convoy. If I can get him, I'll be able to get right into the convoy and really wreck some havoc. I order ahead flank and close the distance to the destroyer. He's making a straight line right back to the convoy. I close to 1100m and let 2 eels go. the first one hits but he's still going. The second should've hit but there is no explosion so I think that it must have missed. Just then "BOOM!" the second hits and he goes down.

Now I'm thinking "the doors open, now we're gonna just waltz right in". I'm already starting to go through my plan of attack in my head and joyfully looking forward to the prospect of shredding this convoy when...




..The game booted me out to the desktop!!! I kid you not...I sat in stunned silence for about 2min. And then only mumbled "no...that's not fiar....that's so not fair". :damn:

This seriously happend to me last night. It's the first time SHIII has ever crashed on me, which sucks, but I'm hoping to try again tonight. Anyway, I figured the folks on this board are the only ones who can apprieciate the pain I went through.

[rls669]

I feel your pain. I just lost a career that started in 1939, 30+ patrols. I was on my first patrol ever in a XXI, on my way to intercept a convoy. The next day when I went to play the game would crash before starting. Multiple reinstalls later I'm forced to start over as nothing would make the game load with that career.

[zzsteven]

6 torpedoes for a lil Destroyer, such a waste. :cry:

zz

[Adlerkopf]

rls669

Dude, that totally sucks. I'm sorry to hear that.

zz

That's what I was thinking. I was more than a little disappointed in myself. :oops:

As an update. I started SHIII tonight and it was as if the patrol never happened. I guess crashing out to the desktop meant there was nothing to save. Anyway, I started tonight, did the patrol (back to BF19) and on my first turn of the pattern I come across the clemson Destroyer again. This time I was waiting and got'em with the first eel. Although the convoy never showed. Still, I feel avenged :up:

[jasondef]

Save, save, and more save!!! Save often is all I can say, I've learned my lesson with such crashes. Up to thirty mods now on my slow computer, and the mod the merrier when it comes to crashes.

[CptGrayWolf]

Now you know why escorts were basicaly not targeted in real life. Those tin cans are not worth the torpedos, stick with the big tonnage!

[STEED]

Your crew were saying :damn: what a wast of torpedos :damn: :damn:

Never wast your torpedos ;)

[scandium]

Your crew were saying :damn: what a wast of torpedos :damn: :damn:

Never wast your torpedos ;)

I agree - its a lot more fun to surface and shell them :)

Especially armed trawlers and flower corvettes with their whopping 12 knot speed the only thing they could run down is a type IIA... they are especially fun to smack down in a fast and nimble type VII.

[Sailor Steve]

I save once every game day. I save just before I attack. Because I don't have a sound card and my game sometimes crashes when a ship sinks I save right after torpedoing one.

It's kept me going more times than I care to remember.

Many years ago there was a popular (but pompous) bumber sticker which said "I brake for small animals". I got a good laugh when I saw one spoofing it with "I brake for no apparent reason".

That's why I save: my computer crashes for no apparent reason.

[CptGrayWolf]

I save just before I attack. Because I don't have a sound card and my game sometimes crashes when a ship sinks I save right after torpedoing one.

Geeshh Sailor Steve they sell sound cards dirt cheap, mine is an old soundblaster, got it used for 10$

[Sailor Steve]

When you can't get even a cheap job and aren't sure whether next week you'll be homeless, $10 is a real luxury.

[Adlerkopf]

Wow, So I take it that in the case of a flower corvette or clemson destroyer it's ok to go shot-for-shot with them on the surface? Are there any DD's that this approach would "not work so well" with?

[Sailor Steve]

That's a game mechanism I don't like, though it probably works in the game. In real life, one hit from the destroyer and you're no longer a submarine. Not a good thing, to my mind.

[Adlerkopf]

Sailor Steve,

That's always been my understanding as well. I remember seeing some footage of a U-boat getting shot to Sh** by, I believe, 20mm fire from a plane. I can only imagine what a destroyer (any kind) deck gun would do. Could cause some serious "ventilation issues" ;)

[scandium]

Wow, So I take it that in the case of a flower corvette or clemson destroyer it's ok to go shot-for-shot with them on the surface? Are there any DD's that this approach would "not work so well" with?

Armed trawlers & flower corvettes are easy gun kills and I never let such an opportunity pass (unless I'm forced to by weather or prior damage).

Destroyers are another matter. There its a judgement call weighing whatever factors may be in your favour (some fog obscuring his visibilility, adequate 4000-6000 m range to minimize ramming danger and restrict him to his longer range guns, at least initially, and a good firing aspect with your nose pointing close to his beam) versus what he has in his (his top speed, gun armament, and the factors above that are in his favour rather than yours such as you being beam on to his nose).

There is also the risk versus reward element. In a previous campaign, my first & third patrols intercepted lightly escorted convoys where I assessed that I could get the better end of a gun fight with the escort and then go on a gun/torp killing spree against the merchants. In the first patrol I easily sank the V&W destroyer (calm sea, light fog, ~5000 m range with my nose pointing 5 degrees off his beam at the beginning of the firefight) and had heavily shelled it before he even located me and started firing (he seemed to have trouble seeing the muzzle flash of my gun at the range & in the fog). At the cost of a few scratches I had destroyed the lone escort followed by 70,000 tons of enemy shipping using every weapon at my disposal.

3rd patrol was a little more hair raising and was motivated more by the fact that I only had 3 torps left in my forward tubes but a couple stern torps & lots of shells/AA to use - if I could sink the (apparently) lone DD (another V&W I think). Anyway same weather, similar firing position but the bearing was closer to 10-15 degrees and the range was less as well (~4000 m). I sunk it but he spotted me as soon as I opened up on him, went to full speed (harder time hitting him) and returned fire immediately. I was still better positioned and had the surprise element while again it was only after the first few shots were fired that he could bring all his guns to bear on me.

I took quite a bit of damage, but the bigger danger turned out to be the flower corvette that (unknown to me) had been bringing up the rear, had seen at least the tail end of the (somewhat) prolonged gunfight and had closed at top speed to ram me broadside. Only two things saved me: it was a flower corvette and not a 2nd DD (which would have closed the distance and rammed me before I could dive or turn into it to fire torpedoes) and I was using auto-targetting that campaign so I knew his exact speed and range as soon as I put the scope on him, and could turn hard starboard and fire without having to workout a solution with the TDC. So having already committed by taking on the lone DD and having only enough time to turn and fire torpedoes it was do or die so I fired twice just in case :) One hit, bye bye corvette and I use my remaining armaments to sink everything I could that flew a British flag (and much I had to let sail away, but I still wound up sinking more that I would have using a classic convot torpedo attack).

So yes, if circumstances are favourable certain escorts are fair game in a gunfight. I would not go toe to toe with any of the later, faster and more heavily armed, DDs though as that is tantamount to suicide. I also only shoot it out on the surface when I can pick and decide on a favourable (to me) engagement.

PS: As to the "realism" factor mentioned, well it cuts both ways: historically convoys were attacked by wolfpacks and not lone subs, which lessened the danger somewhat to the individual u-boats and increased the likelihood of the attack inflicting heavy losses upon the convoy. Wolfpacks aren't modelled in SH3 so if instead I have to settle for an improved deckgun then I put it to use. To my mind they balance out; for others who disagree the reload time can easily be increased with SH3C...

[The Noob]

In real life, one hit from the destroyer and you're no longer a submarine. Not a good thing, to my mind.

This reminds me how realistic CAoD was.Only an hour ago i played it (Got it to work with XP!!!I Followed a turtorial a german forum guy postet, if someone is interesstet feel free to ask) and got hit by 2 shells from the main gun of a destroyer!Damn, that boat sank so Fu*king fast.................If the pressure hull would have holden 20 meters more we would be sitting on the bottom now, dont knowing if we make it back up! :damn: :damn: :damn:

Was a type IIC.

I don't play SH3 anymore.It sucks.The Damadge model is just crap.The sounds are just crap.The crew looks like out of a comicbook.Crappy.The whole game is SH!T!!!! BULLSH!T to be exact.:know:

CAoD is much better!Prepare for a few patrol reports (With screenshoots!!!) from CAoD!!! :()1: Coming (But not soon!)

Command Aces of The Deep, back from the grave!YAY!!!!!

SH3 :down: CAoD :up:

[scandium]

In real life, one hit from the destroyer and you're no longer a submarine. Not a good thing, to my mind.

This reminds me how realistic CAoD was.Only an hour ago i played it (Got it to work with XP!!!I Followed a turtorial a german forum guy postet, if someone is interesstet feel free to ask) and got hit by 2 shells from the main gun of a destroyer!Damn, that boat sank so Fu*king fast.................If the pressure hull would have holden 20 meters more we would be sitting on the bottom now, dont knowing if we make it back up! :damn: :damn: :damn:

Was a type IIC.

I don't play SH3 anymore.It sucks.The Damadge model is just crap.The sounds are just crap.The crew looks like out of a comicbook.Crappy.The whole game is SH!T!!!! BULLSH!T to be exact.:know:

CAoD is much better!Prepare for a few patrol reports (With screenshoots!!!) from CAoD!!! :()1: Coming (But not soon!)

Command Aces of The Deep, back from the grave!YAY!!!!!

SH3 :down: CAoD :up:

If its crap why waste your time bashing it in an SH3 forum? As to the other game, well I will say this much for SH3: I didn't have to read a German tutorial to get it to work on XP. And for "crap" its provided quite a few months of immersive bliss, "cartoony graphics", "crappy damage model", or whatever. Bottom line: its fun (at least, I'd assume, for most of us reading and posting in an SH3 forum).

[CptGrayWolf]

errr...I`m not sure if this is the right place for SHIII bashing.
I know on subsim there is a forum for classic sims, you might want to go there.

As for the AoD vs SHIII debate it is simple for me ( I have played both for many many hours ). Out of the box/stock game the winner is AoD, but with all these amazing mods that keep coming, SHIII is growing and growing in both realism and immersion, it is becoming the ultimate submarine simulator.

When it comes to dealing with DD, just act like real life...run!

[Suicide Charlie]

In my campaign in the 1st Folitta, starting in 1939 my first and second patrols were definitely "ones of those days".

My first patrol I sunk a Small Merchant off the coast of Firth. It took one torpedo amidships underneath the keel and went down like a rock. I surfaced and sent a patrol report, but the report failed to note that I hade sunk a ship and it tonnage so I never got credit for it. The next day during the same patrol I sunk a trawler a few KM's north. I got credit for it's measely 99 tons. I guess I shouldn't complain, but I was bummed that on my first patrol I encountered a decent sized ship and brought her down with ease just to fail to be acredited.

The second patrol was a lot worse however. I intercepted another Small Merchant during the day. She was moving away from me so I had to run on the surface in order to close with her. In doing this I blew my cover and she began to weave in order to make torpedo solutions worthless once the fish got half way there. Instead of being patient and running a sort of bow pattern to parallel her and then out flank her I loosed torpedos at her anyways. The first shot I had put into the water before she spotted me was a perfect shot, only problem was that I set the torpedo to run at a depth that was based off a Small Tanker's draft... not a Small Merchant. So it passed too far under the keel and kept going... That's what I get for being hasty.

That patrol I basically wasted five torpedos with not a single even touching my target...

[DarkKnight]

Wow, So I take it that in the case of a flower corvette or clemson destroyer it's ok to go shot-for-shot with them on the surface? Are there any DD's that this approach would "not work so well" with?

Having just read The Cruel Sea (excellent book by Nicholas Monserrat), which is based on the war time exploits of a flower class corvette, they had a 4 incher up front, a couple of light machine guns on the beam, and a two pounder right aft, in addition to the depth charges. Post refit, they had a pom-pom (4 bofors 20mm cannon made into a quad mounting, basically a flak vierling), lots more machine guns and cannon, and 'Squid' depth charges, plus traditional depth charges, plus a much more advanced Asdic system added to it. At-a-glance differences are the mast on the pre-refit flower is forrard of the bridge (very un-Royal Navy like), and in the post refit, the mast is abaft the bridge.

If you are going to go shot-for-shot with a Flower, place your boat abaft their beam (about 20 degrees), and take out the pom-pom or two pounder, whilst raking the upperworks with machine gun fire. After getting rid of whatever may harm you the most, take the sensible course of action, and give her some new scuttles around the water line, and put a shell into the bridge as well, as there was no scondary command facilities on board the flower.

Try not to get so that she can train her 4 incher onto you, or else, for you, the war is over....

[The Noob]

I know on subsim there is a forum for classic sims, you might want to go there.


I go there, thanks!I never noticed that!

SH3 was fun, yes.But now i find, too many things are screwed with SH3.Yes it was fun, but on long time, CAoD is just better.A Aces of the Deep with SH3 graphics, would be my dream.Well, lets wait a few years. ;)

I had have enougt of "Those Days":down: .Never had any problem with CAoD. :up:

But if SH4 comes out, i hope we will meet again.We will see if it will be better then SH1. :roll:

But by now, i play AOD, theres just nothing better in the moment, at least for me.

Auf Wiedersehen!Hoffentlich.............. :cry: