Soviet naval tactic's

[Kapitan]

During the 1980's the soviets increased exercises and also increased the range of exercises, from the bearents sea to the med and into pacific.

Many of these exercises contained large numbers of submarines and aircraft carriers.

I found a book i have an old one detailing three certain exercises and giving maps drawingish to highlight what the soviets were doing.

The book itself highlights some vessels used by modern navies, combat tactics from old to new and also explains certain other naval issues.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/russian-navy01/odds%20and%20ends/soviettactics.jpg

What do you people think about these tactics of Submarine barriers and fleet barriers ect?

Sorry i couldnt get it bigger but the image shack wouldnt let me upload it.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Damn Kap, I wish you could have gotten that pic bigger. Could you elaborate on what forces those arrows describe and what the book thinks the Red Fleet would have done in the event of war with NATO, and what time period we're talking about? Thanks.

This could be a very interesting topic.

[Kapitan]

Ok the greyish blobs are submarine barriers in war they would have at least 30 submarines or more in each blob.

On the big picture you see two pink arrows coming out of the med they are the black sea fleet, thier role is to block both the english channel and stop any ship from entering that area.

Three arrows coming out of the baltic regionone showing a loop would be a recon team and also doubleing up to bombard any british ship or nato coming up into the north sea.

Now you have a yellow and pink lines from the northcape area that is the main fleet route inside here would be around 300 or more surface units ready to take out the left overs of the nato and american fleets.

The other two are roughly the same.

This is what ive posted on defence talk forums:

This is a scan from one of my book's it shows how the soviets would defend if an invasion by N.A.T.O happend.

If you look and see the greay blobs they are submarine area's now this is an exercise so you would probably only have 10 submarines to one box, in war time maybe 30 or 40 (by 1980's soviet union had over 400 submarines).

What is surprising is they realy depend on submarines and not surface ships like the USN, the soviets couldnt match the USN in carrier development so they had to go for the next best thing, and develop weapons and weapon platforms that could defeat carriers.

The ideology was that in time of war the pacific black sea and northern fleets would deploy every submarine availible and kill as many carriers as possible, at choke points en route.

One choke point is the bay of biscay area place submarines there and they cant go through the english channel, next iceland fareos channel, then denmark straight and then they would place the diesel submarines such as Foxtrot and Tango's and Julliete's to streach from north cape to svalbard.

and in the middile of that there would be a entire fleet of surface ships ready, but why did the russian's build so many submarines?

Answer lies with the fact the technology gap was so great they only way to keep up was to build up in numbers, the russian's expected high losses so they built for that which in the end did little more than bankrupt them.

[Takeda Shingen]

On the big picture you see two pink arrows coming out of the med they are the black sea fleet, thier role is to block both the english channel and stop any ship from entering that area.

Good luck operating in the Channel. Pohl couldn't do it in 1914. Dönitz couldn't in 1939. I don't think the Soviets could do it in the 1970's. I wonder which captains the party would be choosing to donate their lives for that mission.

[Kapitan]

Good luck operating in the Channel. Pohl couldn't do it in 1914. Dönitz couldn't in 1939. I don't think the Soviets could do it in the 1970's. I wonder which captains the party would be choosing to donate their lives for that mission

Probly the ones dumb enough to volenteer. :88)

[PeriscopeDepth]

It's interesting that this book depicts a NATO attack on WarPact forces. Mostly every western thing I've read assumes WarPact would be the aggressor (naturally). And in the event of a NATO attack the Sovs would probably have a fair amount of warning and be at a very high readiness level.

My Impressions:

I think it's fanciful to think you can just sail the Baltic and Med fleets out to the Atlantic after hostilities start. I simply don't think they would have made it. And if they did, they would be such a depleted force they would be useless. Of course a lot of this depends on the situation.

Kill NATO carriers at what choke points? GIUK Gap I can see, but what other ones? If NATO were the aggressor they would already be in the Med.

I never did believe in the Soviet's concept of subs intercepting carriers. Simply too great a technology gap and the carriers were too well defended. Subs relying on RORSAT data for OTH targeting is ridiculous. I think any carrier sinkings would have been made by Soviet Naval aviation making saturation attacks.

Putting WarPact surface ships outside of aircover is asking for it, IMO. The author seems to ignore NATO airpower.

PD

[Torplexed]

Hey...I have that book. It's Modern Naval Combat circa 1986 from Salamander Books.

Here's a bigger version of that map.

http://zioxville.homestead.com/files/Summerex_Map.jpg

[STEED]

Thats better we can read it now :up:

[Kapitan]

God dam it i was working on that :damn:

[Kapitan]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/russian-navy01/odds%20and%20ends/sosusforsubsim1.jpg

This is the area's where submarine ballistic missile ones would have been deployed Yankee Delta and Typhoon classes.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/russian-navy01/odds%20and%20ends/subsim2.jpg

And this is well i cant remember im sure some one will figure it out.

[TLAM Strike]

Damn any ship or sub that tries to transit the English channel is F*cked! With all the Nimrods, P-3s, Atlantiques, tactical aircraft and SSM missiles sites that could be deployed it’s a friken gauntlet. Oh come on a couple of Mirkas trying to sneak through heck I would be sitting up on the clifs of Dover with an M-16 taking shots at them! Same with Gbralter. The Russian surface navy is defensive, even with its Kiev and Kuznetsov carriers, deploying lots of attack subs through the GIUK gap might be sucessful but they would pay a huge price. As for trying to kill NATO CVs at the choke points remember choke points work both ways, you concentrate your subs there and you risk having them taken out by the CVBG's ASW aircraft and shore based MPAs.

[CCIP]

I think in both pictures, the ships transiting the channel were playing the Aggressor role. :hmm:

[Torplexed]

Enough of the hypothetical scenarios. Let's see some real modern air-sea battles. The Argies and their traitorous French missles....

Actually it's been 24 years...not really modern anymore.


http://zioxville.homestead.com/files/Exocet_Attack.jpg

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

Mr. Ambassador, you have nearly a hundred vessels operating in the North Atlantic right now... Your aircraft have dropped
enough sonar buoys that a man could walk
from Greenland to Scotland without getting his feet wet...

one thing's for sure Mr. Ambassador... your government should consider that having your ships and ours, your aircraft and ours, in such proximity is inherently dangerous...

Wars have begun that way, Mr. Ambassador!!!

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

--Mike

[Torplexed]

Those lines delivered so well by Richard Jordan. There was an actor I hated to see pass away.

http://www.pihl.us/leif/honorverse/images/Hollywood/Jordan_Richard.jpg

[sonar732]

I remember my mom and dad getting me that book when I was in 8th grade...wow, that was a long time ago.

[Kapitan]

It seems torplexed we have the same book :D, and it is a shame to see old actors die off Ronnie barker.

[Torplexed]

It seems torplexed we have the same book :D, and it is a shame to see old actors die off Ronnie barker.

Yeah...I'm afraid this book is gonna be a relic someday. Got a whole page devoted to the French Clemenceau Class and it's various weapons systems...and I know at least one (Foch) has been sent to the Indian breakyards. The Viriginia Class CGNs have long been scrapped. They've even given the Viriginia name away already.

Oh well. Some of the information is still relevant. :D

[Kapitan]

Some of it not all is relevent its an old book, and is now dated.