Rootkits? CD burning & emulation software infested

[Onkel Neal]

Found this very interesting, do the anti-SF folks worry as much about having rootkits in their system from Alcohol and other such apps?

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2006/02/using-rootkits-to-defeat-digital.html

Using Rootkits to Defeat Digital Rights Management

[VON_CAPO]

Found this very interesting, do the anti-SF folks worry as much about having rootkits in their system from Alcohol and other such apps?
I use Alcohol 120%, and I was aware about the rootkit.

If you understand why is that rootkit installed, you would agree that it is an absolutely necessity its existence.

This software is the best in the market. :rock:

Under Windows you can manipulate your CDs and DVDs like if you would be under Linux.

It is a MUST HAVE for every Windows user.

:yep: :yep: :yep:

More information: http://www.rootkit.com/

[Gizzmoe]

Found this very interesting, do the anti-SF folks worry as much about having rootkits in their system from Alcohol and other such apps?

SF doesn´t use any rootkit or stealth technologies. As VON_CAPO already wrote, Alcohol and DT have to use advanced stealth methods. A while ago it wasn´t even possible to start certain games when Alc or DT were running in the background, because copy protections blacklisted them, they told you to remove the emulators first before you can play the game. Now that they use better stealth methods the copy protections usually don´t find them anymore.

[STEED]

RootKitRevealer had one installed for two months now found nothing of any concern but it is useful :yep:

[SUBMAN1]

Found this very interesting, do the anti-SF folks worry as much about having rootkits in their system from Alcohol and other such apps?

SF doesn´t use any rootkit or stealth technologies. As VON_CAPO already wrote, Alcohol and DT have to use advanced stealth methods. A while ago it wasn´t even possible to start certain games when Alc or DT were running in the background, because copy protections blacklisted them, they told you to remove the emulators first before you can play the game. Now that they use better stealth methods the copy protections usually don´t find them anymore.

By definition, SF is way more a rootkit than Alc is. Get you facts straight.

-S

[Gizzmoe]

By definition, SF is way more a rootkit than Alc is. Get you facts straight.

Sorry, but I´m not interested to play word games with you, again. Maybe you should share your endless knowledge about SF and rootkits with Mark Russinovich, then he would be finally able to see that SF is in fact a rootkit and post a long article about it. This would help everybody to get their facts straight.

[Mustang]

*waits for the Anti-SF nuts to dig in and setup camp and start an assault.*

Here we go, again. :hmm:

[SUBMAN1]

By definition, SF is way more a rootkit than Alc is. Get you facts straight.

Sorry, but I´m not interested to play word games with you, again. Maybe you should share your endless knowledge about SF and rootkits with Mark Russinovich, then he would be finally able to see that SF is in fact a rootkit and post a long article about it. This would help everybody to get their facts straight.

Since we are on the subject - and that you started the word games, yet don't want to finish them, how by your definition is it that you can say that Alc 120 is a rootkit, and Starforce is not? Since you are so educated on the subject, I am sure you can enlighten us all! :)

-S

[Gizzmoe]

how by your definition is it that you can say that Alc 120 is a rootkit, and Starforce is not?

I haven´t said that Alc/DT are rootkits, I´ve said that they use stealth methods. Not every program that uses such techniques is automatically a rootkit.

[Onkel Neal]

I just think it's interesting that some people launch a crusade against anti-piracy software and use "rootkits" and "malware" as an excuse yet the same people defend Alc/DT stuff that behaves much the same.

I do appreciate unbiased legit coverage of SF:
Q.) A lot of people are saying that StarForce is causing a whole lot of problems with their PCs. Is this true?

A.) Cyber Shack stresses that there is no definitive proof at this stage whether Starforce causes system instability, damage to the physical components inside your computer, or any other issues.

The only confirmed issues relate to running StarForce simultaneously with certain CD/DVD copying utilities, like Alcohol 120% and Virtual Drive utilities such as Daemon Tools. Whether StarForce causes problems on your PC is something that you must determine for yourself.

http://cybershack.com/comments.asp?id=449

Makes me glad I didn't jump on the anti-SF bandwagon.

[Ramius]

Q.) A lot of people are saying that StarForce is causing a whole lot of problems with their PCs. Is this true?

A.) Cyber Shack stresses that there is no definitive proof at this stage whether Starforce causes system instability, damage to the physical components inside your computer, or any other issues.

The only confirmed issues relate to running StarForce simultaneously with certain CD/DVD copying utilities, like Alcohol 120% and Virtual Drive utilities such as Daemon Tools. Whether StarForce causes problems on your PC is something that you must determine for yourself.

Got to admit this says to me that whoever makes SF should be fixing these problems then instead of just ignoring them (which is the way it seems to me)

Can't say ive had any problems with SF - maybe cos ive never installed anything that has it (or am likely too)
As for 120 and DT - yes both of these are installed on my main system - and i wouldnt remover them so i could install a game.

DT I use on an almost daily basis.
Whats the point of having a lot of cd/dvd's lying around when i can have all my images stored on a hard drive and then mount them as i want to = no more scratched disks :up:
Or for kepping you untouched original disks safe from scratching and use the images without fear of damage.

I suppose each way has its pros and cons etc etc. Got to be upto the user at the end of the day.

[SUBMAN1]

I just think it's interesting that some people launch a crusade against anti-piracy software and use "rootkits" and "malware" as an excuse yet the same people defend Alc/DT stuff that behaves much the same.

I do appreciate unbiased legit coverage of SF:
Q.) A lot of people are saying that StarForce is causing a whole lot of problems with their PCs. Is this true?

A.) Cyber Shack stresses that there is no definitive proof at this stage whether Starforce causes system instability, damage to the physical components inside your computer, or any other issues.

The only confirmed issues relate to running StarForce simultaneously with certain CD/DVD copying utilities, like Alcohol 120% and Virtual Drive utilities such as Daemon Tools. Whether StarForce causes problems on your PC is something that you must determine for yourself.

http://cybershack.com/comments.asp?id=449

Makes me glad I didn't jump on the anti-SF bandwagon.

Hey Neal,

THe difference here is, you can turn off this so called rootkit on Alc or Deamon Tools. THe reason it exists is to act as a virtual CD drive so that you can play CD's from your HD and the program doesn't know any better. However, if you don't want the virtual drive, you do not have to use it. There is no other way to make a virtual drive than to fake it - and since this software is not attempting to hide from the user, it is not considered a rootkit. SF for example goes to great lengths to hide itself from the user, and it intercepts calls to IDE channels and manipulates the function of your actual hardware in what I consider a very negative manner. This is the difference.

-S

[kiwi_2005]

When i click on the starforce thread by soulcommander all i get is a grey blank page?

So, does anyone know if the new RTS game "Starwars Empire at War" has SF. It states at the back of the case "This game contains technology to prevent copying"
I installed this game on Friday - notice Saturday my drive acting strange the light kept blinking yet nothing in the cdrom & not always being detected on startup, when i load the game i suspect its a SF game, as it takes ages to load up. Now the baydoor wont open and light is blinking continuious. So now am using dvd drive to load the cdrom.
Sunday: Today my cdrom drive did not get detected on startup at all. My cdrom drive no longer works. Its dead.
Most of my games run of dvds, this game came with cds, so its a first using the cdrom with a SFcd.

Can't confirm though as the game might not hold SF technology it could be that my cdrom drive of only two yrs died. :hmm:

[Gizzmoe]

So, does anyone know if the new RTS game "Starwars Empire at War" has SF.

It uses SecuROM 7.

[Onkel Neal]

I just think it's interesting that some people launch a crusade against anti-piracy software and use "rootkits" and "malware" as an excuse yet the same people defend Alc/DT stuff that behaves much the same.

I do appreciate unbiased legit coverage of SF:
Q.) A lot of people are saying that StarForce is causing a whole lot of problems with their PCs. Is this true?

A.) Cyber Shack stresses that there is no definitive proof at this stage whether Starforce causes system instability, damage to the physical components inside your computer, or any other issues.

The only confirmed issues relate to running StarForce simultaneously with certain CD/DVD copying utilities, like Alcohol 120% and Virtual Drive utilities such as Daemon Tools. Whether StarForce causes problems on your PC is something that you must determine for yourself.

http://cybershack.com/comments.asp?id=449

Makes me glad I didn't jump on the anti-SF bandwagon.

Hey Neal,

THe difference here is, you can turn off this so called rootkit on Alc or Deamon Tools. THe reason it exists is to act as a virtual CD drive so that you can play CD's from your HD and the program doesn't know any better. However, if you don't want the virtual drive, you do not have to use it. There is no other way to make a virtual drive than to fake it - and since this software is not attempting to hide from the user, it is not considered a rootkit. SF for example goes to great lengths to hide itself from the user, and it intercepts calls to IDE channels and manipulates the function of your actual hardware in what I consider a very negative manner. This is the difference.

-S

Thanks for the explanation. I still question why SF is guilty when the imaging apps are desired for similar behavior. If the "program", ie game, does not want the game played without the CD, I do not agree with the reasons for bypassing it (ex: having to stick a CD in a drive is a bit of a hassle"). Give me a break.

Interesting debate on AVault with Derek Smart, developer and flamefest expert: http://forums.avault.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001087;p=1

:hmm: Aren't we glad we don't have many flamewars here?

[VON_CAPO]

Thanks for the explanation. I still question why SF is guilty when the imaging apps are desired for similar behavior. If the "program", ie game, does not want the game played without the CD, I do not agree with the reasons for bypassing it (ex: having to stick a CD in a drive is a bit of a hassle"). Give me a break.

Personally I think the point is about who has the control.
It will be the developer or the computer's owner? :stare:

I am pretty sure about this. I decide how I play my discs. Also, which part of the software I decide to install and which one not. :stare: :stare: :stare:

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1082/picture33cm.th.jpg (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture33cm.jpg) http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/2880/picture53gs.th.jpg (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture53gs.jpg)

[Onkel Neal]

I am pretty sure about this. I decide when and how I play my discs. :stare: :stare: :stare:




Yes, as long as it is accordance with the game's EULA, right? ;)

[VON_CAPO]

I am pretty sure about this. I decide when and how I play my discs. :stare: :stare: :stare:




Yes, as long as it is accordance with the game's EULA, right? ;)

That "EULA" has significance only in court. :zzz:
At home it is irrelevant. :yep: :|\

[John Channing]

It's relevant here, too!

JCC

[VON_CAPO]

It's relevant here, too!

JCC
Where is here? The Subsim forum?
If the answer is YES, I would like remind you that I buy my soft and my posture is about user's freedom, and not pro piracy. :yep:
So, I would regret to know that your commentary has a hostile tone. :roll:

[SUBMAN1]

I just think it's interesting that some people launch a crusade against anti-piracy software and use "rootkits" and "malware" as an excuse yet the same people defend Alc/DT stuff that behaves much the same.

I do appreciate unbiased legit coverage of SF:
Q.) A lot of people are saying that StarForce is causing a whole lot of problems with their PCs. Is this true?

A.) Cyber Shack stresses that there is no definitive proof at this stage whether Starforce causes system instability, damage to the physical components inside your computer, or any other issues.

The only confirmed issues relate to running StarForce simultaneously with certain CD/DVD copying utilities, like Alcohol 120% and Virtual Drive utilities such as Daemon Tools. Whether StarForce causes problems on your PC is something that you must determine for yourself.

http://cybershack.com/comments.asp?id=449

Makes me glad I didn't jump on the anti-SF bandwagon.

Hey Neal,

THe difference here is, you can turn off this so called rootkit on Alc or Deamon Tools. THe reason it exists is to act as a virtual CD drive so that you can play CD's from your HD and the program doesn't know any better. However, if you don't want the virtual drive, you do not have to use it. There is no other way to make a virtual drive than to fake it - and since this software is not attempting to hide from the user, it is not considered a rootkit. SF for example goes to great lengths to hide itself from the user, and it intercepts calls to IDE channels and manipulates the function of your actual hardware in what I consider a very negative manner. This is the difference.

-S

Thanks for the explanation. I still question why SF is guilty when the imaging apps are desired for similar behavior. If the "program", ie game, does not want the game played without the CD, I do not agree with the reasons for bypassing it (ex: having to stick a CD in a drive is a bit of a hassle"). Give me a break.

Interesting debate on AVault with Derek Smart, developer and flamefest expert: http://forums.avault.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001087;p=1

:hmm: Aren't we glad we don't have many flamewars here?

Its simple - SF attempts to hide from the user. Imaging apps have no intention of hiding from the user and are under user control, but hide from other software.

-S

PS. And they don't break your SW or HW in the process.

PPS. Derek Smart is and idiot - always has been. It is funny to read his rants once in a while though. I still have BC3000 and never found the fun in it. It never did ones things well. It probably would have been cool if he implemented his plan to hunt down intruders in FPS mode on your cap ship, but that was too ambituos for him I guess.

PPPS. Can anyone answer what college DS got his PHD from? It was probably the bought online type since he still hasn't answered what college he went to.

PPPPS. I can't quite tell if DS is for or against SF!!! What the hell is he saying - in the same thread he talks baout it not ever having a problem, and then down below, he writes about all the headaches he has had with it!!! As always - DS is an interesting read. He should really stay off the crack though.