Britain has new weapon against Iraqi Youths - Beatings

[Deathblow]

British troops ganging up on and beating the snot out of Iraqi dissidents?

http://www.break.com/index/britishiraq12.html

:-?

[TteFAboB]

If only they were American soldiers... :hmm:

But this can be blamed on Bush anyway, right? He dragged Tony Blair into the war. No wonder Dick Cheney receives more attention and headlines than this, Bush is getting old.

[mog]

I don't have any sympathy for the little stone-throwing bastards, but the soldiers probably did go too far.

Like with Abu Ghraib, the point that really strikes me is how someone could be stupid enough to film something of this nature.

[bradclark1]

You want to know whats stupid. Expecting combat troops to act like cops.
Not only are they not trained to be cops they don't recieve the same pay as cops. If they wanted to play cops they wouldn't have joined the army would they?
You want to screw with soldiers you pay the price. They are lucky they weren't shot.
So who is wrong here? Politicans, rioters or soldiers?
So shove your bleeding heart somewhere Deathblow.

[UglyMowgli]

I think it not a sound generator but some an old song from The King Elvis , young people dislike it a lot (he y prefer Britanny Spirit songs :rotfl: )

[lesrae]

I think it not a sound generator but some an old song from The King Elvis , young people dislike it a lot (he y prefer Britanny Spirit songs :rotfl: )

Wrong thread mate?

[jumpy]

As Brad says, what do you expect from men who are traned to kill and not as policemen?
Something else that isn't shown in this clip is what appears to be a grenade (?) an explosion on the other side of the courtyard, just before the incident takes place. Perhaps it's not altogether professioinal in todays squeaky clean view of millitary manuvers, but if that had been Iraqi police (or any other middle eastern security forces- they don't p1ss about like we do in the UK) those lads would have suffered much worse as a matter of course. Such an outcry, for a typical occurence over there, would the same have been reported if it was local fuzz/military forces beating seven bells out of some locals? I don't think so.

[STEED]

The Problem with that piece of film footage from the news on the TV is you see only the aftermath not what caused it, and the gutter press in the UK hyped it up to get a reaction, a negative one at that. The British gutter press should be ashamed of themselves, if they got one thread of moral fibre in them. :nope:

Well that's my comment from what I have seen on the news now to Deathblow's link which shows the whole thing well do you think any solider is going to stand there and take that crap no and why should they. :yep:

[Sixpack]

Oh yea ! Brits kickin azz !! :rock: Thanks for that link :lol:

And to remind my critics: They'd most likely become terrorists or frustrated islami radicals anyway later on in life, never mind their arses now being kicked by the West.

Give 'em more !

[Sixpack]

I dont blame these soldiers considering the **** they endure every single day

(yet definitely not those perverted folks involved in Abu Graib and such places ! To hell with them :hulk: )

[The Avon Lady]

I do blame the soldiers.

I don't blame the entire British Empire.

So, there are bad apples in UK troops? Like, wow! Who ever would have thought! :roll:

Deal with them and move on to pummeling the enemy that really needs this sort of treatment - and then some!

[Rotary Crewman]

Don't get me wrong, it's the wrong thing to do.

Keep it in house, get those blokes sent back to England and let the forces get on with their jobs. If the public feel they should know whats happening then release this sort of thing AFTER the war. The News Of The World has just put our troops in danger once again.

Thanks.

[kiwi_2005]

Well actually i found the footage blardy HILARIOUS! Was like watching the police do a raid up my street. :D

Ah.... ok sorry

[Happy Times]

If the job given is to maintain order, hunt down terrorists among the population AND win hearts and minds, they should be trained to do that. The responsibility is on the commanders to organize this crowd control training. Soldiers job is what the politicians give , and this time its this shait with rock throwing kids. Those soldiers did wrong, maybe because left unprepared by superiors, wouldnt be the first time.

[Sixpack]

As I said over and over again: Peackeeping sucks big time.

you'll see for yourself , Happy man :)

[Sixpack]

I do blame the soldiers.



Get real. A little spanking those kids dont hurt. Actually it might do them good. Builds charactre :lol: Granted, Saddam Hoessein's stepfather might have overdone it... :hmm:

But none of this 'extreme British violence' [cough] would be in the media spotlight nowadays when i.e. an Apache Longbow would have struck at civilian areas killling women and children....

These soldiers are not in Disneyland, you see :ping:

[JSLTIGER]

The bottom line is that modern militaries are not built for peacekeeping. They are built to gain ground as fast as possible in a blitzkreig-esque fashion and fight an enemy until destruction. Peacekeeping is not a priority according to the way the US's and UK's forces are built. This is also the reason that our militaries are having problems dealing with the guerilla warfare going on in Iraq.

[Dowly]

What can you expect from a soldier that have to live in a place where the civilian next to you could blow himself up in any second. (And no, I´m not saying that all civilians in Afganistan, Iraq etc. are suicidebombers.)


Oh and what´s the problem with the 'narrator' on the video?? :rotfl:

[mog]

Oh and what´s the problem with the 'narrator' on the video?? :rotfl:
He seems to be deriving some sexual pleasure from the beatings. That's why the camera's a bit shaky; he's only holding it with one hand. :rotfl:

[micky1up]

what you have to do is put yourself in the soildiers position a few mins ago several hostile youth 's have thrown rocks grenades and who knows what at you and your best mates so with the limited resources and time do you

1.execute them without remorse ( which most dictatorships would have without a thought)

2. shoot them then rendor help after the crowd disperses (which most police states do)

3. teach them the error of there ways with a large portion of corporal punishment which leaves the alive but a bit more wiser about there actions

as i have said before it easy to sit thousands of mile's away in relative comfort and judge someone on a video of a few mins without all the facts and emotions

[101Dixie]

I know two wrongs don't make a right and all that, but what do you expect them to do? It's not easy to stand by while you're getting stuff chucked at you, especially when the next thing could be a grenade. All in all these youths could be considered to have got off lightly.
What does make me annoyed over these situations is how the gutter press harp on about "Support our boys in Iraq", and then release stories like this which but the troops in more danger.

[Etienne]

what you have to do is put yourself in the soildiers position a few mins ago several hostile youth 's have thrown rocks grenades and who knows what at you and your best mates so with the limited resources and time do you

1.execute them without remorse ( which most dictatorships would have without a thought)

2. shoot them then rendor help after the crowd disperses (which most police states do)

3. teach them the error of there ways with a large portion of corporal punishment which leaves the alive but a bit more wiser about there actions

as i have said before it easy to sit thousands of mile's away in relative comfort and judge someone on a video of a few mins without all the facts and emotions

4. Control your emotion, use your maturity and training to subdue the suspect and process him properly.

If it can be done here, by policemen who have less firepower and training than soldiers, I don't see why it can't be done over there.

And just because dictatorships and police states would have shot the guy - or worse - doesn't make it ok for the UK, the US, or whoever else to do so. Unless you WANT to be a police state.

The whole "Not getting down to their level" thing, remember...

ETA: How does the press releasing those stories (Which, you know, is their job) puts the troops in danger?

[jumpy]

ETA: How does the press releasing those stories (Which, you know, is their job) puts the troops in danger?


It can undermine puplic confidence in the troops ability to get the job done and reflect badly on moral for those on the ground having to deal with violent and angry people every day and makes their job that much harder to acheive in the face of contradictiory support, or the lack thereof. Without somebody to keep the peace the country cannot be expected to conjour civility all by itself.

If it can be done here, by policemen who have less firepower and training than soldiers, I don't see why it can't be done over there.

Unfortunately over here is absolutely nothing like over there. For the UK the last time there was any real propper rioting with the sort of violence observed was the polltax riots. The rule of law is much more firmly established in the western mindset and consequently coppers on the beat here don't tend to have to deal with masses of kids throwing bricks etc (we'll leave the troubles in N Ireland alone for this one as it's a situation with established boundrys), so most of our police don't need to carry guns for fear of being linched or decapitated by extreemist religious types.

It's important to recognise that most middleastern states use the iron fist of government, to an extent they have to to stop the populace burning the place down and causing havock in the streets- In Iraq Saddam was the iron fist (he was a nutter also, but that's not the point here), notice that since ppl are no longer afraid of Saddams reprisals, every crazy man with an axe to grind has come crawling out of the woodwork bringing with him the sort of disruption and unrest that was previously suppressed by brute force.
You only have to look at the recent protests about the danish cartoons to understand the sort of exitable nature of the community that we are dealing with, even in secular countries in europe where everybody is supposed to be civilised and not get all worked up into burning emassies/flags/calling for death to blsphemers etc over some silly pictures.
To a certain extent, rough handling of some of these people is what they are used to and all that they respect. Trying to rationalise with some people just will not work until you can get their attention in the first place, and if that sometimes requires beating that respect into them then that's what it will take.
I wouldn't like to see unprovoked violence towards civilians, but if you chuck stones at the pigs, expect to get filled in if they catch you!

[micky1up]

Etienne


ok mate i accept your points but put your self in their place i could probably give u the text book method in dealing in any situation but its not a perfect world in any other country bar america and the uk the soldiers in question wouldnt have even been part of a news story never mind getting questioned about the event there have been soldiers in every war since record that have abused or slightly taken things too far i will give u an example france has invanded a few countries and have broken a few human rights laws in the last 50 years guess how many french soldiers have been prosecuted for offences against human rights yes u guest it none zero ziltch naughter because a nation acctualy gets on with enforcing the human rights laws and prosecutes people it duz not mean they are the worst offenders all it means is they are good at applying those laws

[bradclark1]

4. Control your emotion, use your maturity and training to subdue the suspect and process him properly.

If it can be done here, by policemen who have less firepower and training than soldiers, I don't see why it can't be done over there.

They aren't cops. Firepower has nothing to do with it. If they used firepower the riot would have ended pretty quick I would say.
I would also say that police and military training is totally different from each other so that argument doesn't hold any water either.
What maturity has to do with anything I don't know.
Isn't it also the issue that soldiers are not trained to handle crowds they are trained to kill.
Your whole line of thinking is way out there. Do a reality check.

[Zepheron]

If it can be done here, by policemen who have less firepower and training than soldiers, I don't see why it can't be done over there.

Why don't you test your theory. Walk around in your neighborhood chucking rocks at policemen and record your findings. I would join you but I am not in the mood to get my arse kicked today.

[STEED]

If it can be done here, by policemen who have less firepower and training than soldiers, I don't see why it can't be done over there.

Why don't you test your theory. Walk around in your neighborhood chucking rocks at policemen and record your findings. I would join you but I am not in the mood to get my arse kicked today.

In my neighborhood you would not get any reaction from the police why you ask, to busy with their speed guns and handing out tickets for speeding.

But over there in Iraq policing these people is a hard job it would be so easy to start shooting them on the spot.