Warship Wrecks - Found Or Not Found?

[AG124]

A little off topic, but have any of the following capital warship wrecks been found?

HMS Courageous
HMS Glorious
HMS Barham
HMS Eagle
HMS Hermes
USS Oklahoma
USS Hornet
USS Wasp
USS Langley
USS Indianapolis
USS Houston
IJN Musashi
IJN Fuso
IJN Yamashiro
IJN Kongo
Or any Japanese carriers or cruisers, or Italian capital warships?

I know the following ships have been found:

KMS Bismarck
KMS Scharnhorst
KMS Blucher
HMS Hood
HMS Prince of Wales
HMS Repulse
HMS Ark Royal
USS Yorktown
USS Independence
USS Quincy
USS Northampton
USS Atlanta
HMAS Canberra
IJN Yamato
IJN Mutsu
IJN Kirishima

The following wrecks were scrapped post-war :shifty: :

IJN Haruna
IJN Ise
IJN Hyuga
IJN Amagi
IJN Oyodo
IJN Tone
IJN Aoba
KMS Deutschland
KMS Admiral Hipper
KMS Seydlitz
Italian BB Caillo Duillo
Italian CV's Aquila and Sparviero

And the following are still in shallow water:

USS Arizona
USS Saratoga
HMS Royal Oak
KMS Graf Spee
KMS Prinz Eugen
IJN Nagato
IJN Sakawa

I also heard that Robert Ballard searched for the USS Lexington and the four IJN carriers from Midway but did not find anything except a piece of the Kaga's flight deck. He also didn't find the Astoria, Vincennes, or Hiei (or any Japanese cruisers) at Guadalcanal.

I have also probable neglected to mention many, such as German and British light cruisers (the Edinburgh was found, for example).

And I have never been able to figure out what happened to the Graf Spee and Graf Zeppelin - there have been many accounts of their final fate (target, scrap, lost under tow, buried?).

Forgive me - I just felt like listing a lot of warships. :P :lol:

[Etienne]

Graf Spee was scuttled in the River Plate. There's a thread about it right now...

[AG124]

I know all about the Graf Spee - I've seen the thread too. :yep: Interesting.

I know what happened to all of the ships which I mentioned (i.e. how they were sunk). What I was wondering was if anyone knew which ones had been located on the ocean floor.

[Torplexed]

The heavy cruiser Houston must have been located in the Sunda Strait. The son of one of the surviving crewmembers dived on the wreck.

http://www.usshouston.org/news.htm

[Hellcat]

Was taking a look about concerning USS Saratoga and found this interesting history:

http://www.answers.com/topic/uss-saratoga

check out the pic at the bottom of her sinking...

[Kapitan]

You forgot the 2 world war veteran HMS Warspite

[JSLTIGER]

Salvage efforts were prevented by radioactivity, and seven and one-half hours after the blast, with her funnel collapsed across her deck, Saratoga slipped beneath the surface of the lagoon.

In recent years, the submerged wreck, the top of which is only 40 ft below the surface, has become a scuba diving destination, the only carrier wreck accessible to recreational divers.


Hmm...I wonder if she's still radioactive. Any of those divers come up glowing?

[AG124]

Yes I did forget the Warspite - she was broken up in situ.

The warships in Bikini Atoll are no longer radioactive (I am really sure they are not, anyway). They are now a popular tourist attraction for scuba diving. I'm not a scuba diver myself, but maybe someone here is, and has been there?

http://www.bikiniatoll.com/divetour1.html

I also forgot to list the USS Arkansas in my list. :shifty:

It's too bad the surviving ships from Operation Crossroads were not sunk in shallow water as well - most were scuttled in deep water including the New York, Nevada, Independence, Pensacola, and Salt Lake City. The Independence was accidently located during some kind of research expedition near San Francisco around 1990. I believe the Pennsylvania was scuttled in relatively shallow water near Kwajalein, but she has also been reported to have been sunk off of Hawaii with the New York and Nevada.

[Dowly]

A little off-topic: What´s that 'leaking' from the USS Arizona??

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/7366/googleearthexe04da.jpg

[TteFAboB]

Blood.

[Marcantilan]

petrol.

Arizona has the bunkers full when was hit.

Actually, my last time in Pearl (around 1994) I saw petrol bubbles coming from the wreck.

Strange, if you think the ship was destroyed in 1941!

[AG124]

Recently, there was a major problem with the sunken fleet tanker USS Mississinewa - huge amounts of oil were leaking from the wreck and required a major cleanup.

[Dowly]

petrol.

Arizona has the bunkers full when was hit.

Actually, my last time in Pearl (around 1994) I saw petrol bubbles coming from the wreck.

Strange, if you think the ship was destroyed in 1941!

That amazes me too! It´s been leaking for 60 years!? :doh:

[Type941]

someone here said those leaking oils from Arizona are called tears from the dead or something of that nature. obviously a metaphor.

[Fitz505]

There has been concern in the past few years, that as the ship begins to break up (hull is rusting away), there may be a major oil spill. Apparently, it's fuel bunkers were full, when it went down. Saw a program some months ago, that showed Navy divers doing an examination of the ship to determine it's condition.

Fitz

[Dowly]

Isn´t there any way to pump the tanks empty?? Or are they just too lazy to do it? :-j

[Etienne]

It'd be a pretty simple operation for the US Navy. I don't exactly see why they don't do it...

If it was a merchant ship, the company, it's insurer and the Captain would have gotten sued fifty time over the leaking.

[Fitz505]

Pumping the bunkers empty was the option. If I recall, there is still almost 1/2 million gallons still aboard. Of course you are dealing with a government organization, so by the time they get around to doing anything, it will probably just collapse someday. Then add the fact, it is a wargrave (people are still be buried there (urns only), that probably compounds the problem as far as preservation is concerned.

Fitz

[AG124]

So, uh, has anyone heard about discovery of any of the wrecks way back from my first list? :88) :P

[JSLTIGER]

As far as the Arizona goes, they're also concerned about what may happen to the wreck if they empty the tanks (i.e. they could collapse from the difference in pressure after 65 years). I'm also pretty sure that I've read that the Navy is planning to empty those tanks after the last survivor dies, so as to fulfill the legend that the ship will continue to "mourn" for its crew until the last of them passes on.

[Type941]

Or are they just too lazy to do it? :-j

Yup, that's it. :shifty:

[authorshop]

I know this topic was first mentioned a while ago now, but I am new to the site so here goes, I hope this is of interest to someone: With regards to the Nazi aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin; the wreck was located in 2006. It lies in some 85+metres in the Baltic sea. She is fairly intact, and stands tall off the sea bed. There are signs of extensive damage to her bow, superstructure and flight deck. If you are interested, I have written a book that is available through my website on www.withoutwingsonline.co.uk (http://www.withoutwingsonline.co.uk) it contains 28 images and includes photo's of the wreck. I also provide a bit of background information on my site if you want to know more about the ship.

Regards, Steve Burke

[Stealth Hunter]

The USS Indianapolis has never been found and probably never will be. An expedition set out to find it in 2005. They found lumps of coal and a few deckhouses. Nothing else. It sank in some of the deepest places on Earth (Mariana Trench is 45,000 feet deep...), so as I said, it will probably never be found assuming it even survived the plunge (munitions and all inside might have gone off whilst being smashed around; water pressure alone on them may have set them off).

[authorshop]

Not sure what those guy's found, but it would seem very unlikely that the Indianapolis was coal fired. I have not looked in to this but I know she was only built in 1930's, I think everyone was using oil by then.
She will still be out there somewhere, and no doubt will one day be found. Remember, even large sections of HMS Hood still exists, and she had a magazine explode.

[Stealth Hunter]

They found coal. That's all I know. They're starting to suspect it may have come from a Japanese destroyer, but they're not sure.

The Hood sank in waters not nearly 45,000 feet deep (45,000 comes from a tiny crack that continues to run downwards inside the trench bottom; nobody is sure where it stops). We're talking the deepest point on Earth here, not a couple of miles (like 2 or 3). The Trench is over 9 miles down. At the bottom, the water column above exerts a pressure of 108.6 MPa, over one thousand times the standard atmospheric pressure at sea level.

That's 8 tons PER SQUARE INCH, more than enough to cause a sinking battleship to implode, let alone destroy munitions inside.

The speed that the Indianapolis would have gained during her fall probably would be what would set off the munitions inside. Assuming it wasn't smashed to pieces upon hitting the bottom like a wooden dollhouse falling off a 50-story building, then it's highly unlikely that anything survived the explosions of bombs and shells.

[bookworm_020]

If you want to add to the not found list HMAS Sydney, She went missing off the West Australian coast after fighting KSK Kormoran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_between_HMAS_Sydney_and_HSK_Kormoran

[swifty]

Or are they just too lazy to do it? :-j

Yup, that's it. :shifty:

She just has not started leaking enough to pose any major danger to the environment.

The Navy MUDSU 1 along with NAVSE SUPSALV recently offloaded 2 million gallons of oil from the WWII tanker USS Mississinewa (AO 59), (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Mississinewa_(AO-59))destroyed by a suicide torpedo.

A Power Point of the salvage can be downloaded here: http://www.supsalv.org/essm/ppt/MISS_Web_Summary.ppt


As of 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_of_2007), 66 years after the explosion that destroyed Arizona, oil leaks from the hull still rise to the surface of the water. The USS Arizona continues to leak about a quart of oil per day into the harbor.[1] (http://www.pastfoundation.org/Arizona/Legacy_2.htm) Survivors from the crew say that the oil will continue to leak until the last survivor dies. Many of the survivors have arranged for their ashes to be placed in the ship, among their fallen comrades, upon their death and cremation. The Navy, in conjunction with the National Park Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Park_Service), has recently overseen a comprehensive computerized mapping of the hull, being careful to honor its role as a war grave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_grave). The Navy is considering non-intrusive means of abating the continued leakage of oil to avoid the further environmental degradation of the harbor. This abatement may very well occur when the last surviving crewmember dies.

[Prof]

The Hood sank in waters not nearly 45,000 feet deep (45,000 comes from a tiny crack that continues to run downwards inside the trench bottom; nobody is sure where it stops). We're talking the deepest point on Earth here, not a couple of miles (like 2 or 3). The Trench is over 9 miles down. At the bottom, the water column above exerts a pressure of 108.6 MPa, over one thousand times the standard atmospheric pressure at sea level.The deepest point on Earth is thought to be Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trench, which is just short of 36,000 ft deep. That point is a good 500 miles from where the Indianapolis went down. The best information I can find says that the Indianapolis went down in water no more than 20,000 ft deep. That's certainly deeper than Titanic, Bismarck or Hood but it's roughly the same depth as some wreckage of the Kaga which was found recently.
That's 8 tons PER SQUARE INCH, more than enough to cause a sinking battleship to implode, let alone destroy munitions inside.Only unflooded, sealed areas would implode. Ships sink because they're full of water, so generally there aren't many areas left which could implode.
The speed that the Indianapolis would have gained during her fall probably would be what would set off the munitions inside. Assuming it wasn't smashed to pieces upon hitting the bottom like a wooden dollhouse falling off a 50-story building, then it's highly unlikely that anything survived the explosions of bombs and shells.I have no numbers to back this up, but I would think that a sinking ship reaches terminal velocity quite quickly. There are many examples of virtually intact wrecks which have fallen nearly as deep at the Indianapolis would be, so I don't imagine this would be a problem.

Edit: Another consideration regarding the leakage of oil from the Arizona is that, at present, the leak is relatively small and the oil dissipates without any problem. If the Navy attempted to remove the oil and it went wrong, there is the posibility that a large quantity of oil could be released in one go, which would be bad!

[bookworm_020]

Or are they just too lazy to do it? :-j
Yup, that's it. :shifty:
She just has not started leaking enough to pose any major danger to the environment.

The Navy MUDSU 1 along with NAVSE SUPSALV recently offloaded 2 million gallons of oil from the WWII tanker USS Mississinewa (AO 59), (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Mississinewa_%28AO-59%29)destroyed by a suicide torpedo.

A Power Point of the salvage can be downloaded here: http://www.supsalv.org/essm/ppt/MISS_Web_Summary.ppt


As of 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_of_2007), 66 years after the explosion that destroyed Arizona, oil leaks from the hull still rise to the surface of the water. The USS Arizona continues to leak about a quart of oil per day into the harbor.[1] (http://www.pastfoundation.org/Arizona/Legacy_2.htm) Survivors from the crew say that the oil will continue to leak until the last survivor dies. Many of the survivors have arranged for their ashes to be placed in the ship, among their fallen comrades, upon their death and cremation. The Navy, in conjunction with the National Park Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Park_Service), has recently overseen a comprehensive computerized mapping of the hull, being careful to honor its role as a war grave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_grave). The Navy is considering non-intrusive means of abating the continued leakage of oil to avoid the further environmental degradation of the harbor. This abatement may very well occur when the last surviving crewmember dies.


They are planning to do a simmlar operation with the Royal Oak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Royal_Oak_%2808%29

[Oberon]

http://www.wrecksite.eu/wrecksite.aspx

[AntEater]

For the Japanese:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/atully08.htm
(combined fleet: Located and surveyed shipwrecks of the IJN).
Among those, there are some located and dived on by divers of USS Chanticleer only months after they had been sunk. Mostly for navigational markers, but also for Intel purposes as salvaging such items as documents and radar and coding equipment.
Diving on a recently sunk warship in tropical waters must have been one of the most nerve wracking experiences I can imagine.
The usual traps of wreckdiving plus unexploded ammo, oil, rotting corpses and sharks...
U boat wrecks can be found at uboat.net

[Torplexed]

Somebody raised this thread from the deep. :p

Still haven't found the Musashi I see. Hopefully she's in better shape than her sister the Yamato.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

What about the Gneisau (sp?)?

[joea]

What about the Gneisau (sp?)?

Scrapped wasn't it? IIRC the RAF hit her with a bomb while she was unloading ammo, there was talk of re-arming her with 15 inch guns (6 instead of the 9 11 inchers) but it came to naught. I do believe some of her turrets were installed as coast fortresses in Denmark or Norway, someone will correct me.

[AntEater]

Gneisenau was hit by the RAF in Kiel shortly after the Channel dash in 1942.
One of the luckiest hits of all times: the bomb detonated on the anti-bomb armour deck just beside the air vent of the propellant charge magazine for A turret. Hot splinters fell through the air vent and caused a detonation which lifted the A turret out of its bearings, destroyed a major part of the forecastle and killed 112 men.
While the whole forecastle was gutted she could still move under her own power and tranferred to Gotenhafen assisted by icebreaker "Stettin", which still exists as a museum ship.
That was to be part of a major reconstruction, in which the 15 cm secondary guns and the 10,5 cm flak were to be replaced by 12,8 cm dual purpose turrets, so the secondary artillery was landed as well.
Hitler was not content with the original 28 cm armament anyway (after insisting on it in the first place!) so the barbettes were constructed to take heavier calibers as well.
The forecastle was pretty much gutted.
The conversion scheme fell through after the Kriegsmarine shifted all priorities to U-Boats in 1943.
The old 28 cm turrets and secondary armament were installed in Norway, where one turret ("C", I think) and some 15 cm guns are still existing as museums.
Gneisenau was used as a Blockship in Gotenhafen in 1945, and was apparently torpedoed by both sides, last time by german S-Boats because a soviet artillery spotter had taken up residence in her main mast.
The Poles raised her in 1950 and scrapped her.

Scharnhorst was discovered in the Barents sea a few years ago, but is not in good shape.

[seafarer]

Did you check wrecksite?

http://www.wrecksite.eu/wrecksite.aspx

also http://www.ukdiving.co.uk/wrecks/index.php

[HMS Hood]

They raised Oklahoma from Pearl then scrapped her. Also don't go diving at Graf Spee it is covered in fishing nets and the waters muddy so you might die. NOT KIDDING!!:dead::dead::dead::dead::dead::dead::dead ::dead::dead::dead: Graf Zeppelin was raised by the Soviets and the Germans let them keep it for scrap.

[bookworm_020]

If you want to add to the not found list HMAS Sydney, She went missing off the West Australian coast after fighting KSK Kormoran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_between_HMAS_Sydney_and_HSK_Kormoran

I guess the good news is that she has been found, alnog with KSK Kormoran. They are about to get some photos of the wreck in the near future.

Graf Zeppelin was raised by the Soviets and the Germans let them keep it for scrap.

Which they then used for bomb and torpedo test and then sunk it, as previous posts have stated.

[bigboywooly]

They raised Oklahoma from Pearl then scrapped her. Also don't go diving at Graf Spee it is covered in fishing nets and the waters muddy so you might die. NOT KIDDING!!:dead::dead::dead::dead::dead::dead::dead ::dead::dead::dead: Graf Zeppelin was raised by the Soviets and the Germans let them keep it for scrap.

Not quite true
Under the Allied Tripartite Commission (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Allied_Tripartite_Commission&action=edit&redlink=1), a "Category C" ship (damaged or scuttled) should have been destroyed or sunk in deep water by August 15th 1946 Instead, the Soviets decided to repair the damaged ship and it was refloated in March 1946.

Last known pic in April 47 leaving Swinemünde

http://neverhost.net/grafzeppelinn8.jpg

Pictures of her find in 2006

http://www.hss.mw.mil.pl/index.php?akcja=galgraf#nogo

[AG124]

@ HMS Hood - BBW already addressed your point on the Graf Zeppelin, but I would like to take the opportunity to make a minor correction on your point about the USS Oklahoma - she was indeed raised and sold for scrap (or just the bare hull, actually) but she was never actually scrapped, as she foundered and sank off the coast of Hawaii while under tow back to the mainland in 1946.:know:

[nikimcbee]

Pumping the bunkers empty was the option. If I recall, there is still almost 1/2 million gallons still aboard. Of course you are dealing with a government organization, so by the time they get around to doing anything, it will probably just collapse someday. Then add the fact, it is a wargrave (people are still be buried there (urns only), that probably compounds the problem as far as preservation is concerned.

Fitz

I think the wargrave issue is the biggest reason, but there was a technical reason also. I dod't remember what it was.

[nikimcbee]

Then there are all those missing midget subs that they have found! The one off Oahu and Syndey Harbor.

[iambecomelife]

@ HMS Hood - BBW already addressed your point on the Graf Zeppelin, but I would like to take the opportunity to make a minor correction on your point about the USS Oklahoma - she was indeed raised and sold for scrap (or just the bare hull, actually) but she was never actually scrapped, as she foundered and sank off the coast of Hawaii while under tow back to the mainland in 1946.:know:

IMO the wreck won't be much to look at, because they removed most of her upperworks and probably the turrets before the scrap tow. The top 10 WWII warship wrecks that I would like to see found are:

1. Indianapolis
2. Glorious
3. Juneau
4. Akagi
5. Barham
6. Kaga
7. Helena
8. Shinano
9. Hiei
10. Dorsetshire

EDIT - you probably realized she was stripped, based on your "bare hull" comment.

[nikimcbee]

@ HMS Hood - BBW already addressed your point on the Graf Zeppelin, but I would like to take the opportunity to make a minor correction on your point about the USS Oklahoma - she was indeed raised and sold for scrap (or just the bare hull, actually) but she was never actually scrapped, as she foundered and sank off the coast of Hawaii while under tow back to the mainland in 1946.:know:

IMO the wreck won't be much to look at, because they removed most of her upperworks and probably the turrets before the scrap tow. The top 10 WWII warship wrecks that I would like to see found are:

1. Indianapolis
2. Glorious
3. Juneau
4. Akagi
5. Barham
6. Kaga
7. Helena
8. Shinano
9. Hiei
10. Dorsetshire

I say, find the U-47, end the mystery.:know:

[USS Sea Tiger]

She was salvaged, found not worth it to be repaired. While in tow back to the USA she took on water and sank.

the Hipper, is found,, though not divable as she is quite deep, but water clarity allows that on calm days and a bright moon you can see her from above in a aircraft.

The pumping of the Arizona is not so simple as you might think, Her fuel is Bunker C, a thick tarry type fule that must be heated to about 120 degreesf to luquify enough to pump. If you were to heat up her tanks to that temp, the expansion would rupture her hull, and also, she is near collapse, heating her would casue the metal to expand and crack, thus possibly causing further pollution.

The DKM Adm Sheer still exists in part. She was partally salvaged on her Superstructure but most of her remains. It was filloed over after the war and is a car parking lot now in Kiel.

Fuso is found, but in two lrge sections, about 2000yds apart. No one can really expain why so far apart, but it happened.

You should look up the wreck of the HMS Victoria of 1893, A vertical shipwreck,, really something to see!!! She nosedived into the mud, and stayed that way, now over 100 years.

[nikimcbee]

@ HMS Hood - BBW already addressed your point on the Graf Zeppelin, but I would like to take the opportunity to make a minor correction on your point about the USS Oklahoma - she was indeed raised and sold for scrap (or just the bare hull, actually) but she was never actually scrapped, as she foundered and sank off the coast of Hawaii while under tow back to the mainland in 1946.:know:

IMO the wreck won't be much to look at, because they removed most of her upperworks and probably the turrets before the scrap tow. The top 10 WWII warship wrecks that I would like to see found are:

1. Indianapolis
2. Glorious
3. Juneau
4. Akagi
5. Barham
6. Kaga
7. Helena
8. Shinano
9. Hiei
10. Dorsetshire

I say, find the U-47, end the mystery.:know:
Bah I already posted this last year. Damn alzheimers

[A Very Super Market]

Good god! Necromancy! Well, as long as everyone else is doing it.


Guadalcanal's "Ironbottom Sound" is chock-full of sunken ships, but everybody probably knows that. Musashi should be fairly easy to find, considering she sunk in the middle of the Phillippines, hard to believe shes been lost.



How about the hundreds of U-boats in the middle of the Atlantic? Bet no one will find them ever!

[August]

You should look up the wreck of the HMS Victoria of 1893, A vertical shipwreck,, really something to see!!! She nosedived into the mud, and stayed that way, now over 100 years.

Interesting. Here's the only image i could find that shows this:

http://www.cityofart.net/bship/victoria_wreck.jpg

http://www.cityofart.net/bship/victoria.htm

[Catfish]

Hello,
the "Victoria", hrrrm, seems she sank because being rammed accidentally during a fleet "show" manoeuvre ..

" ... Victoria wrote a page in naval infamy when she was accidentally rammed by the Admiral-class battleship (http://www.cityofart.net/bship/anson.html) HMS Camperdown (left) and sunk in full view of crowds on the Tripoli waterfront, including a glittering array of military brass. ..."

" ...The 1200-yard gap between the columns was 400 yards less than double the ships' minimum turning radius. Unfortunately the Admiral failed to widen the space between columns (as subordinates timidly suggested several times) to build in a margin of safety before ordering the crash turn. Some sort of mental block seems to have blinded him to the peril, and his officers were wary of arousing his famous temper. The two leading ships, Victoria and Camperdown, drew closer and closer until the Camperdown's ram sliced through the Victoria's bow. Mercifully Camperdown's captain had reversed engines at the last minute, as the collision course became obvious to him. ..."

A case of leading officer's expertise again, seems to be the US Navy is right with promoting officers that "have luck" rather than other, well, attributes :shifty:

Well, no warship but seemingly an auxiliary cruiser ? :hmm: :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1098904/Secret-Lusitania-Arms-challenges-Allied-claims-solely-passenger-ship.html?ITO=1490#

Greetings,
Catfish

[Fr8monkey]

I was watching a piece on the history channel just yesterday on the USS Indianapolis being found; but I wasn't reall paying attention (on for background noise).

The USS Oklahoma was raised and then sold for scrap due to the excessive damage http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/usn/BB-37.html

[August]

The pumping of the Arizona is not so simple as you might think, Her fuel is Bunker C, a thick tarry type fule that must be heated to about 120 degreesf to luquify enough to pump. If you were to heat up her tanks to that temp, the expansion would rupture her hull, and also, she is near collapse, heating her would casue the metal to expand and crack, thus possibly causing further pollution.

The DKM Adm Sheer still exists

In a strange coincidence the book I just started reading "Clash of the Carriers" has a short chapter describing Bunker C fuel. I ran across it today at lunch and said "wow i just read about this on Subsim!"

From the book page 12:

Most WW2 ships ran on bunker fuel, so called because it was stored in large tanks called bunkers. The standard fuel, known as "Bunker C" was a sludgy, malodorous substance almost the texture of molasses ("too thin to walk on and too thick to swim in"). Unlike gasoline, it was easily obtained and in some cases could be used almost raw.

Bunker C was what the petroleum industry calls a "heavy distillate: fuel oil number six". A light distillate is gasoline, while middle distillates include diesel and kerosene. Bunker fuel begins as crude oil, but in refining the lighter fractions such as gasoline, kerosene and diesel are removed by distillation. That leaves the residuals, heavier materials not distilled because their boiling points are too high. Therefore, they do survive the refining process, as do contaminates such as salts and sediment, not unlike seawater when it evaporates.

Because bunker fuel had to be preheated before burning, most Navy ships were built with fuel oil heaters in the fire rooms and steam heating coils in the tanks to facilitate pumping Bunker C. At fifty degrees Fahrenheit it emitted an unpleasant odor similar to asphalt paving material.

The war could not be fought without it.

[Torplexed]

Good god! Necromancy! Well, as long as everyone else is doing it.


Guadalcanal's "Ironbottom Sound" is chock-full of sunken ships, but everybody probably knows that. Musashi should be fairly easy to find, considering she sunk in the middle of the Phillippines, hard to believe shes been lost.
According to the famed wreck finder, Bob Ballard the wreck of Musashi should be at 13° 07' 01" North, 122° 31' 59" East, in the Phillipines off the Bondoc Peninsula, in 4,430 feet (1,350 m) of water. Her exact location still hasn't been pin-pointed though.

However, even though her exact location is still unknown, according to this article in the Manila Bulletin some Japanese executives are planning to raise her:

http://www.mb.com.ph/issues/2008/10/21/PROV20081021138571.html

The Japanese, group headed by Kiyoshi Goto of the Japanese government and Toshihiko Suzuki, chief executive officer of AIPAC (Asian Countries and Islands Optical Fiber Communication and Philippines Property in Asia), made yesterday an offer to the Philippine government to refloat the sunken Japanese warship in the Sibuyan Sea.
I'll believe it when I see it. Raising a 69,000 ton battleship pocked full of torpedo holes from 4,000 feet of water? Even assuming she sank upright or didn't implode it'd still be cheaper to build a replica.;)

[August]

I'll believe it when I see it. Raising a 69,000 ton battleship pocked full of torpedo holes from 4,000 feet of water? Even assuming she sank upright or didn't implode it'd still be cheaper to build a replica.;)

Dirk Pitt did it with ping pong balls... :p

[A Very Super Market]

Ah, but he had the Power of Swede!

Well, Karl Kroyer did. But he was a real person!

[GOZO]

to empty those tanks after the last survivor dies

That must be the key.:yep:

Otherwise you just replace the fuel with seawater as they are emptied but the case mentioned means "disturbing" a grave site.:|\\

Honor to the men of the Arizona

/OB
:arrgh!:

[SavoIsle]

Just a quick note going out to AG124 Grey Wolf.
I've also been doing some extensive research on the events of 9 August 1942, on the occasion of the 1st Battle of Savo Isle. I've been able to obtain some info (however limited) from various wreck divers out of Tulagi, (Florida) on wreck locations for at least a few of those ships you had listed.


Some limited info (and a pretty good map) has surfaced to provide for diver accouints for the Quincy, Astoria, Vincennes, DeHaven, Northampton, HMAS Canberra, and even USS LST 342 in Tokyo Bay. Wish I had some way to attach the map image here. Pretty cool actually.


If you guys get a chance, read up on the Quincy and the Laffey, and their sad fates. All fascinating stuff! You might also want to catch Richard Seaman's classic "342" Tokyo Bay photos at:
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/SolomonIslands/NgellaIslands/Lst342/index.html (http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/SolomonIslands/NgellaIslands/Lst342/index.html)


Just thought I'd share with you guys and pass along.

SavoIsle

[iambecomelife]

Just a quick note going out to AG124 Grey Wolf.
I've also been doing some extensive research on the events of 9 August 1942, on the occasion of the 1st Battle of Savo Isle. I've been able to obtain some info (however limited) from various wreck divers out of Tulagi, (Florida) on wreck locations for at least a few of those ships you had listed.


Some limited info (and a pretty good map) has surfaced to provide for diver accouints for the Quincy, Astoria, Vincennes, DeHaven, Northampton, HMAS Canberra, and even USS LST 342 in Tokyo Bay. Wish I had some way to attach the map image here. Pretty cool actually.


If you guys get a chance, read up on the Quincy and the Laffey, and their sad fates. All fascinating stuff! You might also want to catch Richard Seaman's classic "342" Tokyo Bay photos at:
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/SolomonIslands/NgellaIslands/Lst342/index.html (http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/SolomonIslands/NgellaIslands/Lst342/index.html)


Just thought I'd share with you guys and pass along.

SavoIsle

Yes, I actually have done a bit of reading on the poor "Laffey". She's one of my favorite DD's - it took guts for a tin can to strafe a Japanese BB at point-blank range!

[tigone]

From the Arizona Preservation Project (http://www.pastfoundation.org/Arizona/index.htm) website (info from 2004):
4. Is there still oil on Arizona ?
USS Arizona contains an estimated 500,000 gallons (2,300 tons) of Bunker C fuel oil, which has been slowly escaping since its loss. This oil, a potentially serious environmental hazard, is contained within the corroding hull. Catastrophic oil release, although by all indications not imminent, is ultimately inevitable. Understanding the complex and varied hull corrosion process and modeling structural changes and oil release patterns offers the most efficient method of developing a solution to this potential hazard. Because of the particular national importance of Arizona, any solution must incorporate a minimum-impact approach, or long-term site preservation will be compromised. Unnecessary impairment of Arizona’s hull is likely to be seen by many as more problematic than oil release. Addressing the oil release problem within a site-preservation framework as incorporated within this project provides the best balance of competing social values, and it has the highest probability of success for arriving at the best and most defensible solution for both issues.

5. How long will Arizona last?
Scientific data collected during the USS Arizona Preservation Project is being used to create a predictive model of Arizona to determine its natural lifespan. Complex computer modeling, known as a Finite Element Model (http://www.pastfoundation.org/Arizona/HullThickness.htm), is the tool we’ve chosen to collate the data to predict the sequence of the battleship’s deterioration and give managers an idea how long we have before significant hull collapse occurs. The Park Service has teamed up with metallurgists and engineers from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), in Gaithersburg, Maryland to conduct this analysis. These NIST scientists bring experience and techniques used for analysis of Titanic and the steel from the World Trade Center to bear on the Arizona investigation. Arizona is being reconstructed digitally in an incredibly powerful software package – we’ll start with Arizona as built on the day of the attack, then add the effects of the fatal blast and 60 years of immersion in salt water to bring us up to the present. Next, using data we’ve collected on the battleship’s corrosion rate both inside and out, we’ll project the model into the future to see how quickly and in what way the ship disintegrates and which will be the major structural features to give way first. This will give NPS and Navy managers the information they need to make tough decisions about when and if to intervene in Arizona’s natural deterioration.
As of a year or so ago (last I've heard), the NPS believed that a catastrophic collapse of Arizona's hull, leading to a major oil spill, is still some years off. In the meantime, they monitor the site closely to (hopefully) anticipate any major changes in the wreck. For a variety of reasons, all concerned want to keep as "hands-off" on this wreck as they can.

[ijnfleetadmiral]

the Hipper, is found,, though not divable as she is quite deep, but water clarity allows that on calm days and a bright moon you can see her from above in a aircraft.

If you mean the Admiral Hipper, she was scuttled in shallow water and scrapped after the war...her wreck no longer exists.

Fuso is found, but in two lrge sections, about 2000yds apart. No one can really expain why so far apart, but it happened.

Fuso's wreck has NOT been found, and Anthony Tully's recent book Battle of Surigao Strait has stated conclusively that the battleship was NOT ripped in half by a ginormous explosion. As far as we know, Fuso is still in one piece.

Of the other WWII wrecks previously listed in this thread, only HMS Hermes has been found, and that was back in 2006. She lies upside down in very shallow water (only about 150 feet) and is (obviously) heavily damaged. To my knowledge, none of the Italian warships sunk during the war have been located, either.

All the wrecks from the Java Sea battles have also been located as of this writing.

As for the IJN, countless merchant ships have been found over the years, but I'm only going to list the major warships here.

MINELAYERS
Hatsutaka, Itsukushima

SUBMARINES
RO-60, RO-65, I-1, I-7, I-14, I-30, I-33, I-34, I-52, I-58, I-169, I-201, I-401

Of these, I-30, I-33, and I-34 were all salvaged and scrapped. Their wrecks no longer exist. I-14, I-201, and I-401 were sunk as target ships postwar. I-58 (yes, the sub that sank Indianapolis)'s discovery is only a shaky rumor. Details of the wreck are unavailable.

DESTROYER-ESCORTS
Kuwa

DESTROYERS
Oite, Fumizuki, Nagatsuki, Kikuzuki, Yuzuki, Ayanami, Amagiri, Akatsuki, Shigure, Arare, Kuroshio, Shimakaze, Shimotsuki

Of these Ballard discovered a DD wreck in Ironbottom Sound off Guadalcanal back in 1992. The wreck had the Japanese katakana symbol for 'a' clearly visible on its stern. As no positive ID could be made at the time, it is unknown whether the wreck is that of Ayanami or Akatsuki. The discovery of Shimakaze is - like that of I-58 - rumor only.

LIGHT CRUISERS
Kuma, Kinu, Isuzu, Sakawa

Isuzu's discovery is yet another unfounded rumor.

HEAVY CRUISERS
Haguro, Ashigara

Haguro has been extensively dived. Ashigara lies in very shallow water (around 200 feet or so) and has been heavily salvaged.

SEAPLANE & AIRCRAFT CARRIERS
Akitsushima, Kaga

Only a small piece of Kaga (one of her AA gun sponsons) was located.

BATTLESHIPS
Kirishima, Yamashiro, Nagato, Mutsu, Yamato

Yamashiro was supposedly located back in 2006, lying on her starboard side in 600 feet of water in reportedly very good condition. As no pics have come from this, I consider this rumor to be unfounded. As for the remaining BBs, there was to have been an expedition to look for Kongo's wreck back in March 2010, but it never got off the ground due to lack of funding. Musashi's wreck - despite the nutcase claims she was to be salvaged and rebuilt as a museum ship - remains unlocated.

If anyone wants more info about the wrecks mentioned here, let me know.

-Matt

[Sailor Steve]

If you mean the Admiral Hipper, she was scuttled in shallow water and scrapped after the war...her wreck no longer exists.
You're responding directly to a post made TWO YEARS AGO?
:rotfl2:

Sorry. Maybe it's just because of my age, but that kind of thing strikes me as very odd.

[usslionfish]

someone here said those leaking oils from Arizona are called tears from the dead or something of that nature. obviously a metaphor.
i heard that the oil will keep leaking until the last ph vet passes away

[ehale2009]

to the fellow that said that the olkahoma was scrapped you need to read a little further because the article clearly states that she sank while being towed back to the states to be scrapped

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

I do find it interesting that your very first post should be to argue with somebody about a post he made three years ago. Also, if it's the post I'm thinking of, he didn't say she was scrapped, he said she was sold for scrap, which is true.