Graf Spee's eagle raised

[CCIP]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4702832.stm

Divers have salvaged a 2m (6ft) bronze imperial eagle from the German World War II battleship Graf Spee that was scuttled in the River Plate.

Now when's the whole thing coming up, eh? :hmm:

[STEED]

I don't think they will it's a war grave. :hmm:

[CCIP]

I don't think they will it's a war grave. :hmm:

Oh really?

From earlier BBC article:
The project is being financed by private investors from the US and Europe, and has the backing of the Uruguayan Government.

Once restored, the vessel is eventually expected to become a tourist attraction in Montevideo.

[STEED]

Has anyone asked Germany?

I don't see the point in raising it. Still a good early morning read 00:32AM heck.

[Torplexed]

Under the laws of maritime salvage, do they even have to ask Germany? Most of the crew was left behind on the pier and the skeleton crew left the ship before she was deliberately scuttled so it can't be considered a war grave.

[sonar732]

The captain was so embarassed..or should we say, afraid...that he stayed on the ship.

[Torplexed]

I seem to recall reading Langsdorff wrapped himself in the Imperial German naval flag in his Buenos Aires hotel room and shot himself.

[sonar732]

I should've Googled before posting...sorry. I stand corrected. :oops:

[Etienne]

Under the laws of maritime salvage, do they even have to ask Germany?

Nope. If it's in someone's territorial waters, it depends on that country's law.

I do believe that once it is raised, it'll have to be turned in to the receiver of wrecks, who will then try to contact the owners (IE, Germany). If the owners agree to pay the salvage fee, then it's theirs, otherwise the salver may keep it.

Something like that, anyway.

[AG124]

Didn't the UK buy the wreck from Urugauy shortly after she was scuttled anyway?

[Etienne]

I don't think you can buy a wreck that's still on the bottom...

[Kapitan]

yes you can an american billionaire owns titanic

[Rotary Crewman]

Why would you want to own the titanic? Can you charge people to dive it?

[Godalmighty83]

the grave of the titanic has already been completely raped by people of low morals, lots of money from the deads possesions...

[Kapitan]

Yes they do charge per dive the guy who made titanic film did a 10 part documentary on titanic he was charges $35 million for it, not to mention the kelvdysh and the two mirs at $6 million per day then add crew food and stuff alot of money.

[Sailor Steve]

I don't think they will it's a war grave. :hmm:
No, it's not. No one went down with the ship; they abandoned first, then scuttled.

[STEED]

No, it's not. .

Some would say it is ? OK under the law no, but I can not see why they want to raise it?

[Godalmighty83]

numerous reasons, historical preservation etc.

would also make a fine naval museum exhibit.

'only by knowing the past can we stand to the future'

[Etienne]

yes you can an american billionaire owns titanic

RMS Titanic, Inc, an american corporation, has been granted exclusive salvage rights by an american court. It's not the same as ownership of the wreck. (If you want to be really, really technical, either Cunard lines owns it, or Lloyd's of London insurance bureau owns it.)

It's a pretty weird thing, I guess it could easily be contested in court (The wreck being in the canadian-claimed EEZ, being British in the first place, etc)

ETA : Link (http://www.titanic-titanic.com/titanic_news_31a0106.shtml)

[Kapitan]

that is true the titanic and britanic spelt the end for white star which later became soley Cunard

[bill clarke]

How can modern Germany claim ownership ? the ship belonged to a government that ceased to exist 60 years ago, and a political party that is outlawed in Germany and most of Europe today.

[CCIP]

It was still built on German taxpayers' money, by Germans, in Germany :hmm:

It's like refusing the Autobahns... well, not quite, but you get the idea :yep:

[Torplexed]

The Deutchland class which the Graf Spee was one of, were ordered under the 1929 Program for the Reichsmarine of the Weimar Republic. So their concept, design and laydown under a troubled democracy certainly predates Hitlers coming to power. Of course the Nazis weren't loathe to put them to use. A distinction without a difference I realize but it goes to show how fuzzy concepts like past government ownership can be. What it comes down to in the end is it's a uniquely "German" warship.
:cool:

[lesrae]

Salvaged ships which sank before the first atom bomb detonations are also valuable for their 'pure' steel, it's used in scientific research etc.

[Abraham]

I din't get "the first atom bomb" thing... What's that got to do with it?
:o

[Etienne]

I din't get "the first atom bomb" thing... What's that got to do with it?
:o

I'm curious as well... I can see why it might be interesting, but I don't see how an atom bomb would have affected iron and coal buried kilometers underground half the world away...

[lesrae]

Well, before the first a-bomb test the earth had a 'natural' level of radioactivity. Since then the level has increased due to the testing and use of bombs. Steel demonstrates this rise in levels, it's to do with the amout of air that's blown through the steel in it's manufacture (or something like that).

The steel from older wrecks wasn't contaminated in this way during it's manufacture so it's valuable for use in sensitive equipment - mostly in the medical world apparently. I first heard about it referred to in relation to the German fleet at Scapa Flow, I few more tidbits in this search: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=ships+steel+radiation+%22scapa+flow%22&btnG=Search&meta=

I'm not suggesting it's worth raising a wreck solely for this use, I just thing it's an interesting subject.

[Abraham]

Sorry Lesrae for thanking you so late for your reaction on my question. I've been away (see: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=49854 )
Interesting stuff indeed.