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Skybird
02-10-06, 05:24 AM
After all my fighting against Islam, Bush, buggy software in general and starforce in special, now something conciliatory and contemplative. Let'S see how many people are willing and able to follow me into the depths of my inner dungeon of abstract philosophizing :lol: :-j The following I wrote two weekends ago, while beeing bored.



In vino veritas, they say - if that is true, while some religions prohibit alcohol, there may be some magic to be found in a reasonably small glass of delicious red whine, like I just had one. There is a phase of transition between being sober and reaching the state of where your mind is seriously lulled, when you feel that your mind is somewhat lifted, where it has passed beyond a barrier that ordinary-day-thinking and pragmatic logic and common sense usually erect. Your thinking gets wings for some minutes, and develops a life of it’s own. But – it lasts not for long.

Imagine: TIME. What is it? Einstein said, space and time are relative, and they are a continuum. What is a continuum, then? A continuum in my understanding is a set of mental rules, or thinking patterns, that decide that certain variables shall be considered to belong together, without being able to exist as separate qualities outside this imagined matrix that forms them into a pair of mutually dependent qualities or quantities of something. In other words: I consider a continuum to be theoretical construct that helps a way of thinking and making assumptions about the universe we seem to experience as being “there”, outside of “ourselves”, our bodies, our egos.

What if time has no physical existence as a quality that related to the changing events of processes, in one causal direction from cause towards effect? What if time “t” is only a function of mind “m”: f(m)=t ? This would mean that we ourselves are the source of time, that time is a state of mind, and it would explain why we perceive time intervals of – physically – identical length as being of different lengths nevertheless, in our subjective interpretation. Remember the time when you were a small kid, how endlessly long days have seemed to be, and how time seemed to have rushed by faster and faster the older you became. Everything was long-lasting, was big, was far away when you were small and young, today everything is much shorter living, smaller, close-by. But even age is no general rule. Consider yourself in two different situations, let’s say a situation of positive expectation, and fear or pain. Waiting for your lover is one thing – waiting for the dentist being done with that hole in your tooth is something different. An equal time interval of five minutes appears to be of different length to you, depending on what mood you are in, and the intensiveness of your experience also varies. Time can pass quickly, or painfully slow. Time is a function of your mind, isn’t it?

Our mind changes through various stages of our development, from our baby times over our childhood to the hot intensity of perception when we are juveniles and young adults, time seems to run faster and faster. But when we have become adults and have left the first half of our lifes behind, when he have arrived in our social role and maybe found peace of mind and some security (may it be caused by our way of thinking of things, or by material “facts”), eventually a relaxation in our minds is able to counter this constant acceleration. This brings back rest and a more comfortable speedframe into our usual living – we stop chasing life, but learn to enjoy it and be happy with what it has offered us so far. Eventually means: if life was not pushing us around too hard. If life has pushed us into a constant panic and state of emergency, or existential fear, we seem to be living by hectic exclusively, and our existence wastes it’s precious lifetime like a racing car wastes expensive gas on the autobahn. When they ran out of their fuel, both come to a complete halt. But the car can be refuelled – the decisive difference.

By using the concept of time our mind describes our interaction with the dimension of space. Giving a length in an “expression of range”, a hundred meters for example, does not make sense to us, is of no meaning to us that we could imagine. We experience a given quantity of “space” by transiting through it, which consumes time. In a way we translate the expression “1km” into “takes me two minutes to get there.”

Think of astronomy. There we deal with distances and dimensions of space that we cannot imagine. What do we do in astronomy? We translate distance into times. We say it takes us so and so long to reach that galaxy, that solar system, that pulsar. And our science followed that need of our mind, it introduced the concept of “lightyears”. The term, if you think of it, combines the dimensions of space (distance) and time.

But if we perceive a “distance” out there, a space, a cosmos and universe, and in our thinking habit that we call space-time-continuum it is linked to the dimension of time, and if time is no fixed physical variable, but a function of our mind, so that we create and decide how much or how little, how fast or how slow “time” is, by that determining the nature and quality of distance/space – what is space then anything different than a construction of our own thinking? Determined by the nature of what we call our mind? Is space out there – a space inside us? Does the German word “Weltraum” (space) maybe mean “Innenraum” (inner space) instead?

An inner space we can explore, it is within our reach. If our inner space includes what we call outer space, space trekking then maybe should be replaced with mind trekking.

When I am alone in a clear night, and look up at the stars, or when I think about certain scientific expression and relations and values of fixed variables, then I sometimes have the strong conviction that all this cannot be by pure chance alone. That it has a hidden meaning that is waiting to be understood by me, by us. Who can look at the stars and despite the enormous abyss both in time and space that is separating them from us – every look into the universe is a look into it’s past, shows us only how it has been, not how it actually is – who can do so and do not feel a strange, but certain link, or connection between our life, and them? Our bodies cannot reach them, but with our minds we reach for them nevertheless, through time and space. Is the universe of matter maybe just a universe of mind? “Every thing and item has Buddha-nature”, say Buddhists, and Christioan mystics say: “God is all and everywhere”. But by the act of perception and observation, by the act of mental interpretation of what we perceive and creating relations between observations and calling this scientific laws, theories, paradigms – our thinking and reflection are constructing the meaning of things, they are linking them, our interpretation is the source of their meaning. Or in other words: WE are the meaning, the link between all what exists, the sense of life we struggle so hard to find. What other meaning of life can there be than – to live?

If we are really 6 billion different individuals on this planet, each of these constructing with his mind his own universe with a dimension of space – does this mean that there are six billion different universes, then? Or is our usual assumption that our minds are individual, a folly, maybe? Is there only one mind – OURS? Six billion faces of one and the same being?

What does us make standing apart from space/cosmos, then? In a way it appears to me that our concept of space sciences is seriously flawed. We think it is a scientific research to the outside, to the “new West”, conquering the new frontier, overcoming the distance/the space that separates us from that frontier. I feel that this way of thinking is wrong. It gives answers to questions – at the price of even more questions. With each knowledge we gain – we understand that our lacking understanding has grown. We are not closer to final answers, but we are aware of even more questions instead. Doing like this hasn’t given us peace of mind, or the certainty of knowledge, we are not more happy and not more peaceful than before. It is knowledge of only very limited use, it does not give us answers to the real important questions: who am I? where do I go? How much time do I have left? Why am I here? This is what we want to know, and hope the answers would give us peace of mind, not if the dark side of the moon has this or that mineral in a crater. That is entertaining to find out, but only pleases our curiosity. It is nothing substantial. Do we need not so much space travelling in usual understanding but more a discovery of “inner spaces”, research being done in regard to our own minds? Many old cultures thought so. And an old wise saying teaches us: if you want to change the world, change the mental attitude in which you see it. Is all that space out there – in reality not inside ourselves? Inside our minds? How can we ever hope to cover the abyss between the stars and galaxies and supergalaxies with such unimaginable distances separating them, if we think in concepts of linear flight from A to B ? Isn’t that absurd? What if the key to spaceflight and reaching far away places – lies in ourselves, what if the travel is more an inner, a mental means of transportation, transporting not so much our material body, but our minds? Is there a limit to what our mind can do, can achieve? I think the only limit to our mind is our imagination. A big imagination therefore is a divine gift. Einstein even said: imagination is more important than knowledge. It can lead to where with limited means a true expression of something infinite, unlimited can be achieved. This is a form of beauty, imo. It seems to happen in mathematics. I am not very competent in the field of mathematics, but I envy those who are. It’s a divine language they speak. Maybe some of you know David Zindell’s wonderful science fiction novel “Neverness”. I always found his fantasy of the pilots conducting space flight by “falling through the infinite expressions of that storm of numbers (Zahlensturm), following the paths of equations and variables” most fascinating, and very poetic.

Is that ocean of suns and stars, those galaxies amongst myriads of galaxies, grouped in myriads of supergalaxies, is it even made for us humans? Is it real or only an artificial structure we put on our myriads of perceptions to give the order, structure, a future that we can control and be certain of? Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to assume that these dimensions are such that they are beyond reach of humans, so that we cannot reach there as long as we stay human? Depending on a material body, being handicapped by our concept of what our mind is – an intellectual machine only? We define “human” as having this body, being this biological species with all it’s material characteristics. I’m sure this species is not made to reach for the stars. It must overcome itself, it must leave the state of being human behind, it must transcend itself. If matter is no longer limiting mind, then distance and space loose their importance, because matter only is a frozen state of time, one moment in time that had coagulated temporarily, to word it like this. It does not stay like that forever, it is transformed, from matter to matter, eventually from matter to energy, and vice versa.

Which brings us to the concept of energy. In a poet’s understanding, energy is light. Light itself is invisible as long as it does not hit matter, but by light’s presence: matter (coagulated time) becomes visible. Without light(energy), matter and therefore: time, would mean nothing. Without time/matter being transformed into energy/light, there would be no light. Both things are two different “Aggregatszustände” of one and the same thing that finds expression through both. It expresses itself in the dichotomy of matter and light, both are expressions of the one and true nature behind them. Without light/energy, there wouldn’t be a cosmos we could experience with out senses, with our minds. The cosmos IS light/energy, and so are we.

Is light maybe an expression of the one cosmic quality some religions that try to stay away from personalized, theistic idols refer to as God, cosmic mind, divine spirit? In such religions the positive principle, for easier use I refer to it as “God” exclusively in the following, always is described as the side of light, not darkness. Darkness is of evil, they think. But truth is, there is no region in space that is a complete empty void. There is matter or energy all around, radiation, gas, particle clouds, matter, waves. Where we perceive an absence of light/energy/God, we only admit our inability to see their presence. That way, an evil itself (understood as the absence of light/energy/God) does not exist. Evil is: our lacking knowledge of the omnipresence of light/energy/God. Our lacking faith that they are there, this is our sin. Sin means: not to know. It means lacking insight, it means: just to believe something, maybe this, or that – it doesn’t mean anything. Knowing is not believing. Knowing is an empirically justified confidence that is based on direct, immediate experience of such an intense quality that it is beyond any doubt. You cannot believe in “God”. You can only know of “God”. But even if you do not see the light, it nevertheless is there. You cannot be in an empty void. You cannot be outside God. What you call “evil” – is only your lacking knowledge, your lacking insight. “Sin” means only a state of mind that still is handicapped by this kind of lacking knowledge.

Light reveals to our eyes the universe of matter, in a wider understanding energy reveals to us the complex facets and different states of matter that it can reveal itself in, that’s why we not only use optical telescopes, but radiotelescopes and particle-detectors and who-knows-what as well. By discovering the universe, we discover ourselves. But since we think that time is passing while these energies reach our detectors from far away, it a the past only that we see. When observing the universe, we reach for it not only through space, but also through time. What was it with time? Haven’t we said that time is a function of our mind? So…? Our conclusions…?

Whatever we do, in what ever a way we look at it – we are always pointed back to ourselves. And it is here where we need to search for answers. We must not try to get here or there – we are already there, for “here” and “there” is inside our mind, so is all time, past, present and future. It’s all a giant show, an entertaining riddle that is created to help our mind to realize itself. Self-knowledge is the first and primary goal of all science, and all religion, both are just two ways to towards the same goal, and they must not be exclusive to each other. The universe is an empty mirror, it only shows the one who is looking into it. If we look with an anxious expression on our face, then we see somebody who looks tensed, and dangerous, and we feel we need to defend, and the other looks even more dangerous. Go figure what could happen if we look into that mirror – and smile. In this universe, there is no limitation, no beginning and no ending. Universe is mind, and mind simply IS, wothout cause, without need, without meaning, nowhere it comes from, nowhere it does to. One could say, it just plays with itself.

-----

If you think I’m queer, than what would you think of that excentric British scientist, who – some years ago – published a book in which he seriously argued on basis of the quantum theory, that the discovery of a certain basic quantum matrix means nothing else than that theoretically the rise of the dead at the end of time is no absurdity, but a certainty for sure. Unfortunately I do not remember his name, but his was boosted with self-confidence. Crazy, these Brits :-j

kiwi_2005
02-10-06, 05:49 AM
Blardy modern day Philosophers! :D

STEED
02-10-06, 08:09 AM
Sorry I fell asleep to much to read :zzz:
I better drink a lot of strong coffee then I may be able to read it all :yep:

PS I have now.

jumpy
02-10-06, 11:34 AM
Skybird, you need to get in touch with the BBC 'Bitesize' revision ppl and break those massive information chunks down into more managable portions for peeps (me) to digest whilst slacking at work :lol:

http://img493.imageshack.us/img493/2180/bitesize9gf.jpg

Iceman
02-10-06, 03:25 PM
Skybird I don't know if you realize how close you seem to be to realizing what Jesus Christ in the Bible explains....you seem to ponder many things that I and many many others think about and it is just about that time when the truth is revealed.

Time it is stated in the book of revelations as something that will "Cease" to be and a mystery revealed to the people of the Earth....that there is no time...and there is no "Death" so to speak a final death anyways. Death is a but a door that most must pass though.What awaits on the other side is where the choices we make here come into play.It is said...

1 Corinthians 13
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I tell you a truth Skybird Jesus Christ is knocking at the door to your heart I am convinced...All you need do is open the door and let him in....there is no "Catch"...there is no price to pay it has been paid for already ..in blood.You are right....absolutley..LIFE..goes on inside, in spirit.I know you may not believe in good or evil light and dark but it does not matter....if you choose the light...God...Christ then you must open the door to your heart to him so he may enter...He cannot come in unless invited....and no-one it is said may enter into the kingdom of light but by way of the door.

John 10
[1] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
[2] But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
[3] To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
[4] And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
[5] And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
[6] This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
[7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
[8] All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
[9] I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
[10] The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Skybird....there is alot more I would like to say to you but I have to go back to work but if you ever need to talk to someone or ask me questions personally I am here....I pray you hear Gods voice and open the door of your heart to him and live....

Peace.

STEED
02-10-06, 03:29 PM
Well said Iceman :up:

Iceman said - Jesus Christ is knocking at the door to your heart

Some of you guys should open your eyes and see what is going on in the world. Man has no answers to the mess we are in. Evil is every where you have been warned. The clock is ticking.

Skybird
02-10-06, 04:29 PM
I never saw great contradictions, but many parallels between undogmatic science, christian mystic, and Ch'an-Buddhism, and loigc and ratio have their place in all three of these. Different symbols, deriving from different cultures and times - but the same idea. The same I thought to have recognized in the small part of the Vedic scriptures that I have red, long years ago. I did reject the churches, and hinduism, and Islam, and I did reject Buddhist sects. If Buddhism will ever form a Western form of interpretation, than it will speak in the language of science. But that will be a different science than what it is today.

Iceman, I don't understand the tamtam you make, and I think you misunderstood me. Why should I move anywhere if all that I can accieve by that is moving away from - here...?! ;)

If you meet Buddha, kill Buddha.


http://people.freenet.de/Skybird/TaoTeKing.doc
Papyrus-font must be installed for correct formatting of this text.

CCIP
02-10-06, 05:00 PM
Skybird - are you familiar with the work of Georgiy Gurdjieff? I'm detecting some very clear parallels here :hmm:

Takeda Shingen
02-10-06, 05:16 PM
Essentially, all of our physical surroundings are little more than projection. Far is only far in comparison to that which is near. What if everything is truly 'far'? Furthermore, brown is only brown when that particular spectrum wavelength is reflected to us. Therefore, anything can appear to be everything and nothing at once, and any distance, intention or object is only worth the comparative association given to it. It is much like a cruifix can be both an object of adoration and a back scratcher.

Skybird
02-10-06, 05:48 PM
Skybird - are you familiar with the work of Georgiy Gurdjieff? I'm detecting some very clear parallels here :hmm:
I never red him, but had been told about his general idea, roughly. Much I laready have forgotten again. So, I do not know him, but I have an impression from what direction his name is calling.

CCIP
02-10-06, 05:57 PM
Skybird - are you familiar with the work of Georgiy Gurdjieff? I'm detecting some very clear parallels here :hmm:
I never red him, but had been told about his general idea, roughly. Much I laready have forgotten again. So, I do not know him, but I have an impression from what direction his name is calling.

In a sentence, the title of his last work, "Life Is Only Real When 'I am'", probably sums it ups best. Not to say I'm subscribing myself to being an official "Gurdjieff follower" or anything

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurdjieff

I'd recently read "Views from the Real World", and it made a surprising lot of sense to me. Some of your rant reminded me of his logic as described there. :hmm:

About his teaching, Gurdjieff once said, "What do I teach? I teach people how to listen to themselves."

Skybird
02-10-06, 06:04 PM
Rant. Hm, since the war of words that took place in 2003, I am a little bit allergic to that word... I assume you didn't mean it like it sounds.

Let's call it a "well-meant attempt for world peace, personal fulfillment and enlightenment" under the influence of two glasses of sweet red wine :)

Next week i'll write on how to solve the problem in the middle East, and explain the meaning of woman. A correcting comment on Einstein's field equation is also in order, I think :)

JSLTIGER
02-10-06, 06:06 PM
Rant. Hm, since the war of words that took place in 2003, I am a little bit allergic to that word... I assume you didn't mean it like it sounds.

Let's call it a "well-meant attempt for world peace, personal fulfillment and enlightenment" under the influence of two glasses of sweet red wine :)

Next week i'll write on how to solve the problem in the middle East, and explain the meaning of woman. A correcting comment onEinstein's field equation is also in order, I think:)

And if you succeed, then we shall hail thee as the only man to ever understand woman. Then we'll imprison you to gain your singular understanding of them! :rotfl:

EDIT: Aw, damn...I kinda miss being an Admiral! What's the matter Neal, no Fleet Admiral rank on this forum? Oh well...at least its better than the "Night in Bangkok" or the "Medic"...ick.

CCIP
02-10-06, 06:15 PM
To be honest, I don't like "rant" myself. Unfortunately, everyone arounds me always complains of me "ranting" when I throw out something of similarly-philosophical nature in conversation, so the term stuck :P

Look forward to the "rant" on the meaning of women. That's probably my foremost interest, in terms of attempting to understand, in the last while (what, isn't that true of most of any other man at my age?)

Skybird
02-10-06, 06:43 PM
Look forward to the "rant" on the meaning of women. That's probably my foremost interest, in terms of attempting to understand, in the last while (what, isn't that true of most of any other man at my age?)

The summary will be a book in itself. The finished work an encyclopedia. The effort in vein. :lol:

Iceman
02-11-06, 01:32 AM
Lol...a tamtam...I actually read what ya posted.

Only reason I talk at ya with this stuff is because of my belief in that... like the days of Noah ..."Time" will expire and the "Choice" for life may pass ya by and the door be shut. No time for lolly gagging...ya seem to seek truth and if so you'll find it.

:) Peace Skybird

tamtam..lol is dat German for something...like a tizzy or getting panties in a wad? lol...my shorts are not wadded. :)

Skybird
02-11-06, 02:01 AM
tamtam: fuss, to-do, action for the sake of action only, nervousness or lacking patience causing unneeded action, situational "noise", stir. Action that simply is not needed.