European Union? A cartoon?

[Abraham]

My not too high enthousiasm for the EU has dropped as a result of the "Cartoon-war"
It seems to me that the EU has hardly any sense of what cultural heritage it has to defend.

First the start:
Danmark was (almost litteraly) attacked about old cartoons in a clearly orchestrated way with the help of certain governments. The EU left Danmark more or less in the cold babbeling words of wisdom "Let it be" and "Moderation". This clearly gave the signal that in Europe seperate countries can be singled out for attacks. I predict this will happen in the future.

Phase two:
Several Muslim countries - wanting to show their repressed people how "Muslim" they really are - withdraw diplomats from Danmark and the demonstrations become more violent, including Embassies of other European countries. There are cries by demonstrators to boycott Danish products.
The EU declares to support for Danmark, rejects the violence and urges moderation.

Phase three:
Iran starts an official boycott of Danish products. The demonstrations continue.
The EU Commission launches the suggestion to make a "Code of Conduct" for the press how to compromise between (freedom of) religions and (freedom of) speech.

Disgusting but - sadly - predictable.

All this reminds my of the "Münich 1939"-mentality.


I love "What if's", especially this one:
What if in phase one Europe had immediately and univocally responded, together with Danmark, that the one way to do something about these cartoons is to go to court and let the Judiciary decide if religious rights were infringed.
What is in phase two the European Commissionar for Foreign Affairs had called all countries that recalled their ambassador from Danmark that such a step would be considered a diplomatic crisis with the whole EU.
What if in phase three the EU had declared that a boycott of Danish products would lead to a counter-boycott by Europe, and the EU had started an initiative to bring journalists from Western and Muslim countries together to work out a common "Code of Conduct" about the relation between (freedom of) religions and (freedom of) speech. That would give them some time to think...

[The Avon Lady]

The world has failed.
Militant Islam intimidates (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138622571842&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter)
Mark Stein, THE JERUSALEM POST Feb. 7, 2006

I long ago lost count of the number of times I've switched on the TV and seen crazy guys jumping up and down in the street torching the Stars and Stripes and yelling "Death to the Great Satan!" Or torching the Union Jack and yelling "Death to the Original If Now Somewhat Arthritic And Semi-Retired Satan!" But I never thought I'd switch on the TV and see the excitable young lads jumping up and down in Jakarta, Lahore, Aden, Hebron, etc., etc., torching the flag of Denmark.

Denmark! Even if you were overcome with a sudden urge to burn the Danish flag, where do you get one in a hurry in Gaza? Well, okay, that's easy: the nearest European Union Humanitarian Aid and Intifada-Funding Branch Office. But where do you get one in an obscure town on the Punjabi plain on a Thursday afternoon? If I had a sudden yen to burn the Yemeni or Sudanese flag on my village green, I haven't a clue how I'd get hold of one in my corner of New Hampshire.

Say what you like about the Islamic world, they show tremendous initiative and energy and inventiveness, at least when it comes to threatening death to the infidels every 48 hours for one perceived offense or another. If only it could be channeled into, say, a small software company, what an economy they'd have.

STILL, THIS small detail alone suggests a degree of careful contrivance about this latest explosion of the famously incendiary Muslim street - even before one takes into account the fact that the most offensive "Danish cartoons" of the Prophet Mohammed disseminated by the mullahs to their excitable young followers were three fakes added to the 12 published by Jyllands-Posten, presumably because the originals weren't offensive enough.

Incidentally, a question for those demonstrators calling for the cartoonists to be beheaded: Do you want the fellows who drew the three fakes beheaded, too? Presumably they're Muslims, and surely if it's offensive for a non-Muslim to draw Mohammed, it's an act of apostasy for a believer to do so. Will they be beheaded extra slowly? Using the rusty scimitar?

Meanwhile, back in Copenhagen, the Danes are a little bewildered to find that this time it's plucky little Denmark who's caught the eye of the nutters. The cartoons aren't particularly good and they were intended to be provocative. But they had a serious point.

Before coming to that, we should note that in the Western world "artists" "provoke" with the same numbing regularity as young Muslim men light up other countries' flags. When Tony Award-winning author Terence McNally writes a Broadway play in which Jesus has gay sex with Judas, The New York Times and company rush to garland him with praise for how "brave" and "challenging" he is. The rule for "brave," "transgressive" "artists" is a simple one: If you're going to be provocative, it's best to do it with people who can't be provoked.

THUS, NBC planned to celebrate Easter this year with a special edition of the gay sitcom Will & Grace, in which a Christian Conservative cooking-show host, played by the popular singing slattern Britney Spears, offers seasonal recipes - "Cruci-fixin's." On the other hand, the same network, in its coverage of the global riots over the Danish cartoons, has declined to show any of the offending artwork out of "respect" for the Muslim faith.

Which means out of respect for their ability to locate the executive vice-president's home in the suburbs and firebomb his garage.

Jyllands-Posten wasn't being offensive for the sake of it. It had a serious point - or, at any rate, a more serious one than Britney Spears or Terence McNally. The cartoons accompanied a piece about the dangers of "self-censorship" - i.e., a climate in which there's no explicit law forbidding you to address the more, er, lively aspects of Islam but nonetheless everyone feels it's better not to.

That's the question the Danish newspaper was testing: the weakness of free societies in the face of intimidation by militant Islam.

ONE DAY, years from now, as archeologists sift through the ruins of an ancient civilization for clues to its downfall, they'll marvel at how easy it all was. You don't need to fly jets into skyscrapers and kill thousands of people. As a matter of fact, that's a bad strategy, because even the wimpiest state will feel obliged to respond. But if you frame the issue in terms of multicultural "sensitivity," the wimp state will bend over backwards to give you everything you want - including, eventually, the keys to those skyscrapers. Thus Jack Straw, the British foreign secretary, hailed the "sensitivity" of Fleet Street in not reprinting the offending cartoons.

No doubt he's similarly impressed by the "sensitivity" of Anne Owers, Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons, for prohibiting the flying of the English national flag in English prisons on the grounds that it shows the cross of St. George, which was used by the Crusaders and thus is offensive to Muslims. And no doubt he's impressed by the "sensitivity" of Burger King which withdrew its ice cream cones from its British menus because Mr. Rashad Akhtar of High Wycombe complained that the creamy swirl shown on the lid looked like the word "Allah" in Arabic script. I don't know which sura in the Koran says don't forget, folks, it's not just physical representations of God or the Prophet but also chocolate ice-cream squiggly representations of the name, but ixnay on both just to be "sensitive."

AND DOUBTLESS the British foreign secretary also appreciates the "sensitivity" of the owner of France-Soir, who fired his editor for republishing the Danish cartoons. And the "sensitivity" of the Dutch film director Albert Ter Heerdt, who canceled the sequel to his hit multicultural comedy Shouf Shouf Habibi! on the grounds that "I don't want a knife in my chest" - which is what happened to the last Dutch film director to make a movie about Islam: Theo van Gogh, on whose "right to dissent" all those Hollywood blowhards are strangely silent. Perhaps they're just being "sensitive," too.

And perhaps the British Foreign Secretary also admires the "sensitivity" of those Dutch public figures who once spoke out against the intimidatory aspects of Islam and have now opted for diplomatic silence and life under 24-hour armed guard. And maybe he even admires the "sensitivity" of the increasing numbers of Dutch people who dislike the pervasive fear and tension in certain parts of the Netherlands and so have emigrated to Canada and New Zealand.

Very few societies are genuinely multicultural. Most are bicultural: On the one hand, there are folks who are black, white, gay, straight, pre-op transsexual, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, worshipers of global-warming doom-mongers, and they rub along as best they can. And on the other hand are folks who do not accept the give-and-take, the rough-and-tumble of a "diverse" "tolerant" society. When one gently raises the matter of their intolerance, they threaten to kill you, which makes the question somewhat moot.

One day the British foreign secretary will wake up and discover that, in practice, there's very little difference between living under Exquisitely Refined Multicultural Sensitivity and Shari'a. As a famously sensitive Dane once put it, "To be or not to be, that is the question."

The writer is senior North American columnist for Britain's Telegraph Group.

[Skybird]

Option 1 for me. In this case it doesn't matter for me that the original author or initiator of these cartoons yesterday was described as a Jew and well-known right-wing Zionist and lobbyist in Denmark, so now some may argue that the incident was intentionally triggered (I doubt that anyone has forseen the dimension of this). By content the pics were relatively harmless. Britain'S way of acting I find dissapointing in special. is very dissappointing in spüecial. Pro-Euro-people who always were in doubt of the Brits will not really feel discouraged in their opinion.

[Abraham]

Last year it turned out that the European Union had a serious image problem with its own citizens.
Out of frustration with burocracy and lack of transparacy, out of uncertainly about its final goals and course, the population of France and The Netherlands rejected the proposed constitution in referenda that were thought to be a safe win by EU-fans. Heavy pressure from Germany, Belgium and other countries worked counterproductive.
Polls in some other EU countries showed that these sentiments were widespread in Europe

Since then the EU is trying to find ways to ignore the results of these so-called "decisive" referenda and thus neglect the result of a democratic proces.
Instead the EU should have taken a hard look at itself and searched for its own roots; the Judeo-Christian Western civilisation.
We don't have to be ashamed about our culture; with all its mistakes it finally brought us individual freedoms, human rights, trias politica and democracy. These products of our culture were exported to or adopted by many other nation all over the world, mostly for the benefit of them and their citizens.

But we are ashamed about our own culture, aren't we?
Because isn't it slightly ridiculous that Euro bills have to be historically and religious "clean"?
Bridges, monuments and arches are allowed, even church-stained windows, as long as there is not a sign of church tower or a cross in order not to offend other religions. A cross is a sign that is deeply engraved in our European culture. Are we next to remove crosses from nation flags in order not to ...?
Can you imagine other cultures and/or religions denying their own roots in order not to offend others?

Isn't it ridiculous that in a true European Constitution no reference whatsoever can be made towards the Judeo-Christian background of the European culture?

Isn't it even more ridiculous, but a consequence of this weak attitude, that the European Commission let the change slip to say that Europe would defend its heritage and clearly identify that heritage at the same time against Muslim tugs waiting for a cause to attack a European country on a matter of two conflicting European values, freedom of religion and freedom of speech, that both don't exist in their own world?

And isn't it sad but understandable that many Europeans hardly care about that heritage and take its goodies as a matter of course (which they are not)?

The EU showed that it does not care at all about Europe's cultural and philosophical heritage, which it only sees as an impediment to expand the EU towards ..... and .....
I wonder whether the EU ever dares to experiment with referenda again.
If so, I predict that out of frustration and lack of respect for the European Commission any of its proposals will be rejected. Which would serve the burocrats well by convincing themselves that they should not listen to the "vox populi" anymore and follow there own wisdom.

[Skybird]

Amen.

My guts feeling and several (non-representative) polls indicate that around 70% of Germans are against last years constitution. And mongst the young ones who are in favour of the constitution, a vast majority said, when beeing asked, they like it because it makes holiday easier (in whatever regard).

If such inssues are decided on such low educational level, I could only ask myself in desperation if this sinking island is worth my effort of trying to wake it up and save it, no matter how limited and small my effort would be.

[XabbaRus]

Seems the EU is now a case of re running the vote till we get the result we want.

Makes a mockery of democracy and the democratic process.

Hypocrisy. The people vote no, the politicians don't like it, ignore it and will rerun the referendum a couple of years later.

Tony Blair is in the thick of it...makes me sick.

[SmokinTep]

I thought some of the countries over there started publishing the cartoons also. I read where there is an exhibit this week in Moscow of the stuff.

[STEED]

This subject is getting boring :zzz:

[August]

Seems the EU is now a case of re running the vote till we get the result we want.

Makes a mockery of democracy and the democratic process.

Hypocrisy. The people vote no, the politicians don't like it, ignore it and will rerun the referendum a couple of years later.

Tony Blair is in the thick of it...makes me sick.

You aren't the only ones. The voters in my state have rejected a referendum to open a so called "Indian" casino not once but THREE times. Yet guess what's coming up on the ballot again this year? Of course if the pro-casino faction (primarily made up of certain state legislators and Harras casino chain) get their way it won't be on the ballot and they'll get it passed in spite of the peoples wishes.

[Type941]

EU behaved like p*ssies when it came to standing up for little Denmark. :down:

As concise as I can put it really.

[bradclark1]

I've said it again and again. The west will good guy ourselves to death. All to show muslim radicals how nice we are while they laugh at our stupidity.
Just like the E.U. is scared to support Denmark incase their muslims run riot.
Fill up the boats and send them home the first time they brush with the law.

[micky1up]

remeber the 1 thing here guys the very people complaining about these cartoons ar e the same people that complain that there freedom of speech and expression is being held back freedom of expression is exactly what these cartoons are and where supposed to be **** the muslims they have been slagging christians for centurys payback time i say

[Wim Libaers]

Amen.

My guts feeling and several (non-representative) polls indicate that around 70% of Germans are against last years constitution. And mongst the young ones who are in favour of the constitution, a vast majority said, when beeing asked, they like it because it makes holiday easier (in whatever regard).

If such inssues are decided on such low educational level, I could only ask myself in desperation if this sinking island is worth my effort of trying to wake it up and save it, no matter how limited and small my effort would be.

Of course it's worth it! Be selfish, where are you going to run when the barbarians take over? Anyway, people are still relatively well off now. Not inclined to deviate very much from the politically correct position when looking for answers. The problem may be that, once it does get really bad in an acute way, they will be more willing to consider radical solutions, with as much cleverness as in today's politics, and we'll probably end up on the other extreme with some kind of neonazi psychopath in charge.


Seems the EU is now a case of re running the vote till we get the result we want.


And once you vote "correctly", you never, ever, get a chance to change your mind...

The EU is the stochastic approach to dictatorship.

[Deathblow]

can the EU really every be a "Union" with such squabbling? My understanding of human nature, and civilization is that a Union/State/Unifications is only a fleeting whimsy unless the citizens of that union begin regarding themselves (in their own minds) as a citizen of the Unification first and foremost and a citizen of their region second. An example is the US at its beginning was a weak squabbling conglomerant of states, before civil war errupted and squashed any feelings of "state before country" (or in this case "country before union"). Only then was stronger, more lasting nation created.

Will the same ever been said for the EU?

[Abraham]

Of course it's worth it! Be selfish, where are you going to run when the barbarians take over? Anyway, people are still relatively well off now. Not inclined to deviate very much from the politically correct position when looking for answers. The problem may be that, once it does get really bad in an acute way, they will be more willing to consider radical solutions, with as much cleverness as in today's politics, and we'll probably end up on the other extreme with some kind of neonazi psychopath in charge.
Real and decisive leadership from the European Commission might do the trick. But as things are now, that's too much to ask from them.
They didn't even call for an emergency meeting about this matter (probably in order to avoid some hard decisions).
But we'll keep on fighting, he Wim,? Together with Sixpack and a flock of believers in the values of Western Civilisation...
:D


Seems the EU is now a case of re running the vote till we get the result we want.


And once you vote "correctly", you never, ever, get a chance to change your mind...

The EU is the stochastic approach to dictatorship.
I'm afraid that may be right...

[Sixpack]

I've said it again and again. The west will good guy ourselves to death. All to show muslim radicals how nice we are while they laugh at our stupidity.
Just like the E.U. is scared to support Denmark incase their muslims run riot.
Fill up the boats and send them home the first time they brush with the law.


But we'll keep on fighting, he Wim,? Together with Sixpack and a flock of believers in the values of Western Civilisation...




AMEN HALLELUJAH :up: