The Hunt: An illustrated example of how to sink a ship

[Dantenoc]

<Edit: PDF version here (http://people.freenet.de/latemail/The_Hunt.PDF) - Gizzmoe>

First of all, let me start by saying that I didn't reinvent the wheel or claim that I did. All of what you will find here can be found on other posts (and only one of them was done by me)

To learn more, go here:

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/
http://www.communitymanuals.com/shiii/index.php?title=Main_Page

This is just an attempt to show you how to apply all that wonderfull knowledge in a step by step illustrated fashion, playing a SHIII game modded with RUB and on 100% realism (only unchecked realism box is the one that relates to the nav-map updating contacts automatically, but that still gives you 100% realism on the newer RUB)

Having said that... Lets roll :up: !!

Step 1:
Most of the times you'll get help from other german units by virtue of contact reports that you'll receive from the BdU... and you're in luck, 'cause you just got one now
http://static.flickr.com/33/93898886_11b87d262e_o.jpg
You take notice of the ship's speed and heading: Slow, going towards West by Northwest.

You keep your cool and don't head straight for the contact. As a graduate from officer school in the Kriegsmarine, you know that any bilge rat that heads straight for the target will find it long gone by the time he gets there. You know that instead, you need to calculate an intercept course. You know that the answer can be very easily calculated with the law of the sines, but you don't carry the necesary trigonometric tables on board a U-boat to do that (So that would be cheating).

Notice on image 1 that you have allready ventured a guess as to what the intercept course will be, and have allready started heading towards it. It won't be very accurate of course, but at least you won't head in a completely wrong direction while you work out a graphical solution to the intercept problem

Step 2:
You take out the protractor and click on your U-boat and the on the contact to make the first leg. For the secon leg, make it so that it goes from the contact off into it's reported direction. In our case it was reported as West by North West, which is 292.5 degrees from north (click on the ? icon in the nav-map window to have these type of aids show)
http://static.flickr.com/11/93898887_45b0a075c9_o.jpg

Step 3:
Now you take out the ruler and measure from the contact's location of into the direction of it's course. You measure a distance that is representative of his speed. In this case, he was reported as slow, which you know means about 6 knots (medium is 9). In this case the image shows a distance of 60 kms on the ruler which works well. Other options would have been 6 kms, or 0.6 kms or whatever number that readily reminds you of 6 knots.
http://static.flickr.com/37/93898888_c8818a23ba_o.jpg

Step 4:
Now it's decision time: at what speed should you travel to intercept the contact :-?? It can be anything you want (within reason), and most captains like to go fast, but experienced kaleuns like yourself know that around 12 knots is plenty for most times... but in this case you realize that the contact is:
a) moving away from you
b) and very far away from you to start with
c) your in English controled waters
all of which means that you'll have to move decisevely... so 16 knots it is.

So you draw a circle, centered at the end of the ruler measurement you did in step 3, with a radius of 160 mks... why 160 mks? because in step three you chose to represent each knot by 10 mks, remember? (If in step three you'de had measured 6 kms for the 6 knots you would now be drawing a circle radius of 16 kms for 16 knots, and so on). Let's look at your circle
http://static.flickr.com/36/93898889_aa6ce333c7_o.jpg
Achtung herr Kaleun!!: Take special notice of were the circle cuts the line formed from your u-boat to the contact.

Step 5:
Now the magical part. You take another protractor (second one) and click on the center of the circle you just made on step four, then you click on the spot the special spot noted at the end of step four (where the circle cuts the line that goes from your u-boat to the contact) to make the first leg of the protractor. For the second leg of the protractor, make it sow that it heads directly towards the contact. Your Nav-Map now looks like this
http://static.flickr.com/42/93898890_f359490137_o.jpg
Take special notice of the angle that has been formed (in this example, 19 degrees) Congratulations, you now know how to succesfully intercept the contact: you should lead it by 19 degrees in order to intercept it.

Step 6:
This is just an auxiliary step that aids you in measuring those 19 degrees by which you need to "lead" the target. You take another protractor tool (third one) and click on the contact (you might have to fiddle around with all of the overlaping protractors), then click on the U-boat. You now have the first leg. For the secon leg, just make it so that it reads 19 degrees while cutting the contact's reported course. Your nav map now looks like this:
http://static.flickr.com/11/93898892_d72dfa9e82_o.jpg

Step 7:
This last leg of the protractor tool you drew on step six is the exact course you need to take, so you move your navigation way point to match it. To make it even better, you take care to place the nav point precisely at the point where your new course and the contact's course both intesect. Your nav map now looks like this:
http://static.flickr.com/40/93903352_6c162db6e2_o.jpg
Notice that the way point says that interception will occur in 8 hours at a point that is 247kms from your current position :know: !!! You can't help but feel silly for all those times before you knew how to do this and all those ships that used to vanish without a trace :hmm:

Step 8:
Before going of to sleep (you are playing this in 1xTC real time aren't you :arrgh!: ?!?!) you realize that both you and the contact will arrive at the interception point at the same time. :-? You don't like this because you'll be playing catch up with him from then on (rember that he's heading away from you?). To solve this you speed up the boat to 17 knots instead of 16, so that you'll arrive EARLY to the interception point. After this you ask the navigator to do some simple calculations and he comes up with this:
http://static.flickr.com/21/93903353_99f98c2c83_o.jpg
Good, we'll now arrive with plenty of time to spare :up:

(continued on separate post)

[Der Teddy Bar]

When is it coming out in paper back? :rotfl:

[Dantenoc]

Step 9:
You wake up feeling rested and refreshed and realize that your allmost at the intercept point. Of course you dont expect the ship to be there just waiting in your scope's sight, because:
a) the exacteness of your drawings determines the precision of the outcome
b) the ships heading that was provided to you was quite vage (no degrees, just a compass heading)
c) YOU CHOSE TO ARRIVE EARLY, remember?

So you decide to do a quick sonar search. Periscope depth! Engines Ahead Slow!

Let's listen... Aha! You got him now :smug: !!!
http://static.flickr.com/18/93903355_78b5de26a4_o.jpg

Step 10:
Let's take a look at what you've got... Surface the boat!! (relax, he's too far to see you) heading 241, eh? Nope can't see him... he's still too far away. Let's wait for him
http://static.flickr.com/16/93903356_129deef011_o.jpg
Naah, let's not. press the = key and head straight for him... A silly move for sure but we just want to get a little bit closer... let's just sail for 5 kilometers and then do a sonar search again.

Step 11:
http://static.flickr.com/23/93903357_a935e8e6ab_o.jpg
Aaahh, so there he is... you found him pretty quick :up:. Now keep your cool and maintain current orders. Theres no need to rush an engagement or to dive like a frightened rabbit down a hole :|\

Step 12:
Now let's set up your torpedoe run. Start the stop watch and immediatly mark the contact's position on the nav map (for a fully manual mode, take a look at Wazoo's "plot while you move" method)
http://static.flickr.com/25/93905952_360fcbfe41_o.jpg
when the stop watch reaches 3 minutes 15 seconds, mark the contact's position again. Technically that is all that you'll need to determine the ships exact heading and speed, but will take another reading in another 3 minutes and 15 seconds just to make sure

Step 13:
By now the contact is starting to get a little bit too close, so you decide to dive and plot a course that paralels the contact's course, so that you keep ahead of him. You now wait for the stop watch to reach the 6 minute and 30 seconds mark (3:15 twice)
http://static.flickr.com/42/93905954_0998a63b84_o.jpg
almost time for the third mark :)

Step 14:
TIME! mark the contact's position on the nav map. It should now look like this
http://static.flickr.com/15/93905955_332487a6b2_o.jpg

Step 15:
Let's measure the marks on the nav map. In two 3:15 segments the contact traveled 1.4 kms. Which means that on average it travels .7 kms every 3 minutes and 15 seconds. The 3:15 rule says that the contact is traveling at a speed of 7 knots :know:
http://static.flickr.com/17/93905956_c00bd60824_o.jpg
7 knots :-? ?!?! good thing you decided to show up early, since our original guess of 6 knots was a bit slow

Step 16:
Now the contact is officially a target :arrgh!: so lets set him up for a trip to the deep. Take the ruler you just used and stretch it so that it projects the target course. This is also called it's "track". Using a navigation waypoint make a course for your ship that cuts across the target's track at a 90 degree angle. Aid yourself with a protractor for best results. This is of course very easy to do becuase you very wisely chose to arrive before he did :up: . Your nav map should now look like this
http://static.flickr.com/27/93905958_d705c91a4b_o.jpg

Step 17:
You star feeling very confident about the situation and so decide to use the stern tube for the kill (you got to use them sometime, so why not now :smug: ) So that means that you'll have to cross to the other side of the target's track. Set the nav point 0.5 kms on the other side of the track. Asist yourself with a ruler if needed. When your almost in position, the navmap should look like this
http://static.flickr.com/15/93909355_4fd1ffd405_o.jpg

Step 18:
Because you have set up your shot so beautifuly, there's no need to calculate the dreaded AoB (not hard to do, but why do it if it can be avoided?) Just raise your periscope, and point it at the 180 degree mark (that's where the aft torpedo will be coming out from :P ) and declare to the notepad with ferverent faith and utmost confidence: "when the target reaches this point, AoB whill be 90 degrees on the starboard side" :rock:
http://static.flickr.com/32/93909357_3c49cb34f7_o.jpg

Step 19:
Now that the notepad has inputed that information into the targeting computer, swivle the periscope back to the target and AoB will be constantly and correctly updated on the targeting computer :up: By the way, since whe're allready looking at the target, take this chance to ID him.
http://static.flickr.com/27/93909356_a5f37bdb51_o.jpg

Step 20:
You allready know the target's speed (7 knots) but let's double check it. Lower the periscope. Head to the hydrophone and listen to the target.
http://static.flickr.com/39/93909358_a802aec607_o.jpg

CHUG-chug-chug-chug CHUG-chug-chug-chug CHUG-chug-chug-chug... his four bladed propelar turns 28 times per minute. For a C2 that kind of engine effort translates into 7 knots :know: ... speed confirmed :up: (if this was way over your head don't worry, there's an excellent academy mission download for training yourself in the use of the sonar, done by Grayrider and Captain Nautilus I beleive)

Step 21:
Input all the data into the targeting computer (F6) screen. First, press the "manual" button to the green position so that you can play with the dials. Let's start on the bottom from left to right. Leave the first one alone. Set range one to 500 meters (our "distance to track" on the nav map). Leave the Angle of Bow one alone, it is allready correct (remember the notepad?). Set the speed dial to 7 knots.

Now for the torpedoe itself: Choose tube 5. Set the torpedoe's pistol for impact detonation and the torpedoe's depth for 3.5 meters (I just like that depth for no particular reason) your targeting computer should look like this
http://static.flickr.com/13/93909359_d26f2afe2f_o.jpg

Step 22:
To avoid exposing your periscope too much, follow the target with it will it's still lowered... whaaa :huh:?!?! Yes. Have the sonar man call out to you the target's relative bearing continualy and turn the periscope acordingly (allthough to dark to see in the picture, you can actually read the numbers on top of the scope to know which way it points, if not, just raise it a bit so that some light washes in). Observe the gyro angle while you do this, it will update automaticaly. In the example picture, the targets bearing is 137, the scope points toward that direction, and the gyroangle reads 318.
http://static.flickr.com/30/93909360_113d82843e_o.jpg
You want the gyro angle to read somewhere between 350 and 10 degrees when you fire so get ready to raise the scope when it nears those values

Step 23:
Now that the scope is up, don't lock in on the target, instead point it ahead of the ship so that the gyro angle reads 000. Leave it there and wait for the ship to appear. Open the tube (VERY IMPORTANT!!!). Get your finger ready on the trigger button. Wait untill the juciest part of the ship reaches your crosshair to ensure a one shot kill :arrgh!: I like the engine room exactly below the smoke stack, but there are other (better) places. Look!! it's almost in sight :up:
http://static.flickr.com/28/93912177_d63332a089_o.jpg
FIRE 5 :rock: !!!

Step 24:
Go to flank speed and turn hard to the left so that you come around and present your forward tubes in case the ship doesn't die in one shot. Lock the scope on the target if you want so that you don't loose sight of it. Observe your shot while you turn... Torpedoe Impact :rock: :rock: :rock:
http://static.flickr.com/33/93912178_82cc19ca97_o.jpg
Whait!!! what's this :damn: ?!?!?! I wanted you to hit below the smoke stack, what happened :o ?!?!?.... Our one shot kill is ruined :damn: :damn: :damn:

Noooooo, the range was wrong :damn: it was set to 500 meters because that was the distance from the last nav point to the target's track, but the ship didn't stop there, even with it's engines stoped it managed to drift to 700 meters before coming to a complete stop (verified with the nav map on a later ocasion) and people say that range doesn't matter :nope:

Step 25:
Becuase the torp had to travel farther than expected, it arrived late to the target, missing our intended spot. No use in crying, we're turning the ship around precisely because of this posibility and will finish it off with a forward firing tube... whait :huh: ... what's this?!?! the target has stoped, it's engines aren't functioning anymore.... Yaaaay :sunny: happy days indeed, that's why I allways suggest you go for the engine area (not the propelers, the engine boiler room) :up: :up: :up:
Ok... SURFACE THE SHIP... This will be a one torp kill after all... MAN THE DECK GUN!!!
http://static.flickr.com/27/93912179_a59a5e57a6_o.jpg

The end:
Well, your down to 53 HE shells but you got it done. Good bye Tommy... it's down to David Jone's locker with you :arrgh!:
http://static.flickr.com/27/93912180_b68ecd42ac_o.jpg

[SubCommander7142]

Excellent, just excellent..., especially for me not understanding the details of setting interception and searching everywhere for a good explanation.

I'm new to this game, got it just a couple of weeks ago and just started my career (after mercilessly going through the Navel Academy over and over again), and this explanation is going to really afford me new avenues of sinking ships.

I'm curious though, you're target on the example is going west by north west, how did you come up with 292.5 degrees from north? Is that part of the nav-map window aids after clicking on the, "?" icon?

...., that could just be a newbie question since I didn't get a manuel with my copy of the game (just the PDF on the CD).

[Schultzy]

God that was a great read! :sunny:

Thanks for the hard work putting that together, it was really helpful!! :up: :rock:

[SmokinTep]

Awesome post. :up:

[Dantenoc]

I'm curious though, you're target on the example is going west by north west, how did you come up with 292.5 degrees from north? Is that part of the nav-map window aids after clicking on the, "?" icon?

This link will lead you to the answer in the Wiki manual:
http://www.communitymanuals.com/shiii/index.php?title=Navigation

And yes, when you press the ? icon on the nav map an aid will show up to help you draw those angles with more precision. Some people get confused and think that the aid is upside down (i.e. it has 180 on the top for South and 0 on the bottom for North) but it's perfect just the way it is because when you want to draw something that's going to a certain direction, the line that you drag BEHIND you is what will actually cross the map aid.

[VON_CAPO]

First of all, let me start by saying that I didn't reinvent the wheel or claim that I did. All of what you will find here can be found on other posts (and only one of them was done by me)

Excellent Dantenoc!!!!! :yep: :yep: :yep:
:up: :up: :up:

[SubCommander7142]

I'm curious though, you're target on the example is going west by north west, how did you come up with 292.5 degrees from north? Is that part of the nav-map window aids after clicking on the, "?" icon?

This link will lead you to the answer in the Wiki manual:
http://www.communitymanuals.com/shiii/index.php?title=Navigation

And yes, when you press the ? icon on the nav map an aid will show up to help you draw those angles with more precision. Some people get confused and think that the aid is upside down (i.e. it has 180 on the top for South and 0 on the bottom for North) but it's perfect just the way it is because when you want to draw something that's going to a certain direction, the line that you drag BEHIND you is what will actually cross the map aid.

I was sinking ships like no buddies' business the other day thanks to this gem of a post. Still need to work out my torpedo solutions though :hmm:

Thanks again

[STEED]

When is it coming out in paper back? :rotfl:

What happen to the Hardback version? :shifty:

[Ghetto]

Thanks.. great guide!!

Tried it out last night and i managed to intercept my merchnt superbly. I was one hour ahead with plenty of time to go over my torpedosettings.
...And totally missed :o

I discoverd that my sub had drifted almost 600 m due to the wind or waves or whatever...

Going for a new try tonight.. hopefully my 2-year old daughter falls asleep early :D

[SubCommander7142]

Well, I get interception, kind of makes me want to slam my head into a wall every time I think back how I missed the previous contacts :damn:

Anyway, I've been trying to get my torpedo solutions going better, I can do it easily on Automatic targeting, but the game just doesn't feel like a sim when I do it, so I'm trying to learn everything doing it manually.

I can determine the range and the 90 on a target as well as its course and where to intersect it, giving myself plenty of time to line up and set my fish. But I'm not quite clear on the 3:15 rule, even though during the initial sightings and plotting, I mark the map on the contact every 3:15 as forcing the habit. I do four 3:15 apart and measure, and, from what I read, the measurement determines the knots of the target. BUT, every time I think I got the speed and set up an interception I'm off ALWAYS (not in firing, but positioning). And I know that the contact hasn't spotted and increased its speed somewhere because my stealth meter is stating that I'm still good while I'm on course to my designated waypoint.

Now, what I've been doing is measuring the speed of the contact by listening on the hydrophone and counting the sounds on the screws (thanks to the tutorial I downloaded on Subsim :up: excellent Mod by the way), but I would like to understand where I'm going wrong in the 3:15 rule because that seems to be an easier way to get a contact's speed at this range, and thats how I plot the contacts course direction anyway.

Anyone know where I'm going wrong here?

[Uber Gruber]

You must determine the targets actual position as accurately as you can for both plots, i.e. one at 0mins and 1 at 3:15mins.

Then you use the ruler to measure the distance between these two plots and what ever the ruler says the measurement is then thats the speed of the target in knots. (I would reccomend making a few more plots just to make sure though as accuracy increases when the target is nearer to you).

As for the plots, what I do is ask the Watch Officer for the range and bearing to the target. Then I immediately start the stop watch and mark my U-Boats position on the nav map. I then draw a circle with center point on my U-Boats position and radius equal to the range of the target. Next I calculate the bearing of the target relative to North and where that bearing line intersects the circle is where the target was when I started the stop watch. I repeat the whole procedure when the stop watch reaches 3:15. Et voila, the distance between the two plots is the targets speed.

Now, things get a little tricky when you're submerged and thus using the periscope as its harder to determine the range of the target, especially in a storm. Still, you should be able to make a decent enough estimate.

That said, if you managed to calculate the speed of the target before you submerge then have confidence in your plots. If he hasn't spotted you then the chances are he'll be where you expect him to be.

One last thing, once you're in firing position, immediately mark the position of your U-Boat. This way you'll be able to judge how far you're drifting.

Again, practice makes perfect etc.

Cheers,.....

[SubCommander7142]

Sounds like a plan. Thanks a bunch.

[Dantenoc]

Uber Gruber is right, the most reliable way to plot a target's position whithout auto map updates is through the watch officer... Even then you'll get errors up to +/-49.5 meters (since he only uses multiples of a 100 to call of ranges)

I rarely use the stadimiter if at all this days, since I've found that it only works well when your extremely close to the target (less that a 1000 meters)... but by then I allready have all the info I need on the cotact's track so why bother?

The stadimeter method is so horrible that even with practice you can easily get it wrong by a kilometer or more if you are, lets say, 6 kilometers away from the target... at those distances you can surface without fear of being detected (at least early in the war) and ask the watch officer for range info instead.

Again, to learn more just follow the links to Wazoo's material and to the Wiki manual. Another good source of info is the Avon Lady's FAQ, but I don't recall right now if it touches this subject.

[Sulikate]

great job, it makes TCD much clearer :arrgh!:

[robj250]

Great Post. It will most certainly help me to understand what to do with the tools. :D I copied it and pasted it into my word processor and labelled the "snaps". Thanks

[Myxale]

:rock:

[Enigma]

Very nice of you to take the time to post that, sir. Cheers.

[GreyOctober]

I propose a sticky!

AWESOME! :up:

[Stev1]

Great read, I will try and use this Method when i continue my Tour later this evening.

[Jard]

Thanks for that Dantenoc. It's made me realise I've only scratched the surface of this game so far. I shall experiment with my compasses on my next patrol.

[latemail]

:up: :up: :up:

First of all : THX for that great work !!

:up: :up: :up:



and than the PDF from a Newbie --> The Hunt (http://people.freenet.de/latemail/The_Hunt.PDF)


http://people.freenet.de/latemail/mail.gif

[Dantenoc]

The PDF version looks nice :). Should prove useful.

Thanks :up:

[Gizzmoe]

Stickied.

[TangoShadow]

Hi,

WOW!! :o :o :o :o Fantastic post!!!!!!!!!! :D :D

This sim just gets better everytime I load it up! :D

--TangoShadow

[Zyco]

Wow this is one heck of a post, and it shows basically all that I do wrong. :up: :up:

[The_Blockade_Runner]

I wonder if I can perfect this in the Naval Academy :hmm:

[Dekessey]

Thank you sir, very helpful.

[Bluejacket]

Great Post!!!

:up:

[robj250]

<Edit: PDF version here (http://people.freenet.de/latemail/The_Hunt.PDF) - Gizzmoe>

First of all, let me start by saying that I didn't reinvent the wheel or claim that I did. All of what you will find here can be found on other posts (and only one of them was done by me)

To learn more, go here:

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/
http://www.communitymanuals.com/shiii/index.php?title=Main_Page


Hi: I'm sorry that I have to do it this way, but I find trying to use the tools very confusing to me. I copied your steps and pictures and have read it over and over this morning, and it is still confusing to me as my mind doesn't work that well. Because of that, I have to try and plan my intercepts using pencil and paper. Here is my situation and I really want to try your steps, using the tools.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6482/07interceptupload3eq.jpg

Darm, I come across two merchants on the way, sunk them, so now my time is off and so is my intercept time and spot.

[Dantenoc]

Hi: I'm sorry that I have to do it this way, but I find trying to use the tools very confusing to me.

I agree that the game's manual barely covers the use of navmap tools... but what exactly are you having trouble with? The math involved? or the actual click click involved in the tool's use?

[Rooks]

Thanks for an awesome guide Dantenoc!!
Really helps n00bs out like me.

I was wondering if you would your approach change if the ship/convoy was escorted?
Are you able to also give an example of what to do after you fired on an escorted convoy, ie how to evade detection after firing.

Thanks again :up:

[Dantenoc]

Thanks for an awesome guide Dantenoc!!
Really helps n00bs out like me.

I was wondering if you would your approach change if the ship/convoy was escorted?
Are you able to also give an example of what to do after you fired on an escorted convoy, ie how to evade detection after firing.

Thanks again :up:

Intercepting a convoy is even easier, since you'll generaly receive better radio messages about their whereabouts (you'll get their exact speed, for example).

However, I don't really put that much effort into intercepting convoys, since I prefer to hunt stray merchants... the main reason for this is to avoid escorts. It seems that most of the times (lets say 9 out of 10) one can evade the enemy escorts quite easily, and then the next time it suddenly turns fatal :dead:... rarely is it worth the risk.

As to tips into how to evade and escape enemy escorts: Again, my advice is "Why evade when you can avoid?" attack the unprotected, you'll live longer :yep:

[Safe-Keeper]

Great tutorial, thanks a lot!

Some people get confused and think that the aid is upside down
The course-plotting aid (I think) is upside-down, too. It specifically shows "N" as South and vice-versa. Is that, too, supposed to be that way for whatever odd reason? Should've been possible to turn them around, you can in reality, you know:p.

[Sailor Steve]

When you use it the line behind the cursor drags over the appropriate degree for the course. If it was 'right-side up' the line would show the degrees for the opposite course.

[Bum]

bravo!:rock:

Why stop with almost 100% realism? Turn off the navmap updates, easy to plot the target track manually if you can do the torpedo computations :yep: Just mark the bearing and range, use the AOB to get a rough course, then repeat every 3 minutes, soon you will have a decent track on the map. I find it interesting when the target is zig-zagging, you can get in position submerged and await his last zig onto your intercept point.

[Safe-Keeper]

Why stop with almost 100% realism? Turn off the navmap updates, easy to plot the target track manually if you can do the torpedo computationsYou're not the only one to think so.

Lowest realism setting regarding TDC: Fully automated.
Medium: Notepad (in in Silent Hunter 3).*
Highest: Completely manual, as in this thread's example.*

*Option to set WO officer's assistance to Off, Instant, or Delay. On instant, he gets the data instantly, as in Silent Hunter 3. On Delay, it takes him a realistic amount of time.

[Sailor Steve]

*Option to set WO officer's assistance to Off, Instant, or Delay. On instant, he gets the data instantly, as in Silent Hunter 3. On Delay, it takes him a realistic amount of time.
AND, he's not always accurate. Sounds great to me.

[catar M]

Good job m8. I'm new to this game and so far I found this forum very helpfull.I have to say ,it's not easy game if you prepare to play it realysticly but is so much fun .Post's like this are great for noobs like me:D

[Darksun]

I have created shortcut version of the plotting intercept part of this post. I use this frequently and it gets you an intercept quickly. I find the instructions in the post a little cumbersome to follow and wanted a quick reference.

http://darksun.lunarpages.com/images/SH3/TheHunt.png

(EDIT: Replaced broken photo from defunct web site! Edit2: remove wishy washy questions, since I have proved this works to myself.)

[P_Funk]

After reading all this I feel a bit frustrated. I just got all the mods I wanted installed and it runs fine. Last night I printed out Wazzo's guide and then this! GREAT! Now I have something MORE to learn! However it's a good kind of frustrated.:up: All this info mixed with GW will make it a brand new game for me. Yippy Cayay!

EDIT. I just copied the Nav chart to a text file. Is there a similar one which explains what slow, medium and fast are?

EDIT. Okay reading through the guide more closely I'm a bit confused. In step 4 it tells me to "draw a circle, centered at the end of the ruler measurement you did in step 3..." However the picture shows it placing the centre of the circle on a line drawn by the compass but it doesn't look to be at the end of the line drawn by the ruler. So I'm confused how you determine exactly where to place the circle. Am I just missing something?

[Dantenoc]

EDIT. Okay reading through the guide more closely I'm a bit confused. In step 4 it tells me to "draw a circle, centered at the end of the ruler measurement you did in step 3..." However the picture shows it placing the centre of the circle on a line drawn by the compass but it doesn't look to be at the end of the line drawn by the ruler. So I'm confused how you determine exactly where to place the circle. Am I just missing something?

The circle's center IS located at the end of the measurement done with the ruler on step three. Perhaps you're thrown off by the fact that that line was drawn on top of the protractor line done on step two.... which is longer... and so the circle's center is drawn on a point which is NOT at the end of the protractor leg drawn on step two, but IS at the end of the ruler line drawn on step three.

Also, bear in mind that the navmap is zoomed in to different scales on the various pictures

[bigmac644]

Darksun, I appreciate your condensed version! I'll have to try it. I was also just a bit confused from the initial (but WAY Excellent) tutorial by dantenoc.

Thanks guys, it's folks like you that greatly enhance the experience from the vanilla offerings of the software gaming companies.

Not to mention MEGA kudo's to you talented mod guys...

Is this a great site, or what?? :up:

[Darksun]

Darksun, I appreciate your condensed version! I'll have to try it. I was also just a bit confused from the initial (but WAY Excellent) tutorial by dantenoc.

Thanks guys, it's folks like you that greatly enhance the experience from the vanilla offerings of the software gaming companies.

Not to mention MEGA kudo's to you talented mod guys...

Is this a great site, or what?? :up:

Please let me know if I got it right. I keep missing intercepts, but I think it's because the convoys change headings every 100 kilometers or so. :lol:

[NeonSamurai]

Looks right to me, i usualy add an aditional knot or 2 above the intercept speed to insure i get there ahead of the convoy, then i usualy submerge and listen myself for the convoy. If i dont hear them i head along the path the convoy was heading and listen for time to time untill i find them.

[P_Funk]

Finally I got it figured out. Read it a few dozen times and while atfirst it seemed ridiculously complicated its simple now.:up: However sad news. I typed up my own concise version of the process, added a chart of which degrees correspond to the directions (ie. NNE and such) and then printed out Wazoo's tutorial. Then I went to load up Silent Hunter 3 with GW 1.1a and SH3 Cmdr istalled. Everything was just right. So it loads and what do I see? Major graphical corruption! My video cards chooses now to crap itself! So it seems as if my card is toast. Its now been underclocked so that I can run standard desktop stuff but I can't play any games... BLAST!:nope: So your beautiful stuff is now uselss to me for at least a few weeks... BOLLOCKS!

[Dantenoc]

I have created (a possibly flawed) shortcut version of the plotting intercept part of this post. Is this a correct summary of the procedure?

Yes, it is correct :up:

For a post that only deals with the interception part you can look here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88922&highlight=claren%27s

or simply read about it on the wiki ;)

[MRchristian]

you know guys i was beating my head against the wall trying to figure out how to intercept my target and know wwith this new tool at my disposal i shall wreak havok and loose the doggs of war thank you very much for all you time and effort to help us all out

[IrishUboot]

Great stuff! ;)

[Von Hinten]

Great post and thanks for the PDF guys. Good job! :up:

[P_Funk]

Okay in the instructions it mentions the Convoy speed and tells us that of course it means about so fast. So I wanna know exactly what Slow Medium and Fast are. Which speeds in knots refer to these general terms?

[NeonSamurai]

Well from my expirence, slow is usualy 5 or 7 knots, medium is 10-12 knots, and fast is anything from 15 to over 30 (typicaly only warship task forces do 30 knots or better)

From my contacts.cfg file

[ContactSpeeds]
;less than each value means (in this order): stationary, slow, medium and fast speed ; over the last value means very fast speed
Merchant=0.1,8,12,35 ;[kts]
Warship=0.1,8,19,35 ;[kts] including uboats
Air=0.1,8,19,35 ;[kts]
Convoy=0.1,8,12,35 ;[kts]
What it meens is.. lets use the merchant as the example, its stationary speed is 0.1, its max "slow" speed is 8, its max "medium" speed is 12, and its max "fast" speed is 35.

So a ship can be going anywhere from 0.2 to 8kts and be considered traveling slow, from 8.1 to 12 is medium, and 12.1-35 is fast

[P_Funk]

Thanks a ton mate. Very helpful. :up:

So in your experience what is the speed that I should expect a convoy labelled as Fast going at? I ask this only because unlike with Slow and Medium the difference between 15 and 30 knots kinda big when marking an intercept course.

[John Pancoast]

Thanks for the great aid.........but question. You stated you noticed you and the target would arrive at the intercept point at the same time.

How do you know what time the target will get there ? His est speed/distance to point ?

[Steeltrap]

Thanks for the great aid.........but question. You stated you noticed you and the target would arrive at the intercept point at the same time.

How do you know what time the target will get there ? His est speed/distance to point ?

It's because this method solves for an intercept point using plots based on the same 'distance per kt of speed'. In essance you're solving:

"What course do I need to set so that the target and I arrive at the SAME POINT at the SAME TIME?"

Without going into the underlying trig, your intercept course will get you at YOUR speed to the same point the target will get at ITS speed in an identical amount of time - hence you will get there together. Plotted/calculated perfectly, you would actually collide.....:rotfl:

That's why the 'intercept speed x initial proportionality measure' circle is centred on the initial plot line for the target:
i.e. 1km per kt of speed of target = 6km line based on target's speed of 6kts
Hence, at an intercept speed of 12kts the 'proportionate circle' is a radius of 12 x 1 = 12kms, and this is centred on the point along the target plot 6km from initial plot point.

Hope that answered your question without making it more confusing!

[Harmsway!]

Great post.

Another technique to find the course to intercept is by using the Nomograph tool. What I do is plot a course for the contact ship by drawing a line from the contact along it's heading to some future position. Use the Nomograph to determine where it will be in so many hours. You may want to mark along the line 8, 12, 16 hours for example. Whatever makes most sense based on how far away you are.

Then plot a course for the sub to intercept the target anywhere along its course that looks within the time frame from the subs position. You will then see the time it takes to reach that point with your sub at a given speed. From there you can quickly adjust your heading and/or speed to intercept the target at the best point.

Now that you have stopped laughing. Yes this is nothing more then guessing. Yet this quick guess can rapidly be adjusted to find an accurate intercept point that is reachible in time.

Once you know where your target should be for any time on the clock, you then have the choice of when to make the attack, dusk, dawn, night, whatever. If I'm low on fish, for example, I might want to go for a night surface attack and interecpt the target later in the day. Maybe you want to be in deeper water. The point is you can choose an attack that is most favorable.

Also once the sub approaches within 10km of targets predicted position you can dive and listen for it. You must allow time for this though.

Are you still laughing. Well I can't remember the last time a contact slipped by me.

[John Pancoast]

Thanks for the great aid.........but question. You stated you noticed you and the target would arrive at the intercept point at the same time.

How do you know what time the target will get there ? His est speed/distance to point ?

It's because this method solves for an intercept point using plots based on the same 'distance per kt of speed'. In essance you're solving:

"What course do I need to set so that the target and I arrive at the SAME POINT at the SAME TIME?"

Without going into the underlying trig, your intercept course will get you at YOUR speed to the same point the target will get at ITS speed in an identical amount of time - hence you will get there together. Plotted/calculated perfectly, you would actually collide.....:rotfl:

That's why the 'intercept speed x initial proportionality measure' circle is centred on the initial plot line for the target:
i.e. 1km per kt of speed of target = 6km line based on target's speed of 6kts
Hence, at an intercept speed of 12kts the 'proportionate circle' is a radius of 12 x 1 = 12kms, and this is centred on the point along the target plot 6km from initial plot point.

Hope that answered your question without making it more confusing!

Great info. thanks ! Looks like I was making it harder than it actually is :oops:

So basically, since you always want to get to the intercept point before the target, you must always travel to that point at a greater speed than what you used as a reference when plotting the intercept point, correct ?

[John Pancoast]

Great post.

Another technique to find the course to intercept is by using the Nomograph tool. What I do is plot a course for the contact ship by drawing a line from the contact along it's heading to some future position. Use the Nomograph to determine where it will be in so many hours. You may want to mark along the line 8, 12, 16 hours for example. Whatever makes most sense based on how far away you are.

Then plot a course for the sub to intercept the target anywhere along its course that looks within the time frame from the subs position. You will then see the time it takes to reach that point with your sub at a given speed. From there you can quickly adjust your heading and/or speed to intercept the target at the best point.

Now that you have stopped laughing. Yes this is nothing more then guessing. Yet this quick guess can rapidly be adjusted to find an accurate intercept point that is reachible in time.

Once you know where your target should be for any time on the clock, you then have the choice of when to make the attack, dusk, dawn, night, whatever. If I'm low on fish, for example, I might want to go for a night surface attack and interecpt the target later in the day. Maybe you want to be in deeper water. The point is you can choose an attack that is most favorable.

Also once the sub approaches within 10km of targets predicted position you can dive and listen for it. You must allow time for this though.

Are you still laughing. Well I can't remember the last time a contact slipped by me.

Makes sense, thanks !

[Lil Kaleun]

Great tutorials! :up: Gotta try them out when I reach 100% realism. Till that time I prefer to stick to my previous (but still effective, somehow) method - Sail Where You Think You'll Meet Them. :D
Pretty the same as Harmsway's - pure guessing. But I also can't say I've ever missed a contact. Nice to know someone's thinking in a similar way. :up:

[Harmsway!]

I like to convert my hours into time of day. "Alright boys, be ready for action at 1900 hours". I only wish I could add comments to the mark tool. This is something I hope to see in SHIV.

Another cool thing would be a calendar on the desk with moon phases and sunrise, sunset times. SHII had a calendar, I miss that. Looking at a digital mouseover display in the bottom right just doesn't feel right to me.

[Schpeedy]

Neat stuff with the nav aids to intercept the ship, I'll click around on that stuff more often. Thanks.

The measurements and attack run...
Ya lost me on the part that shows the ships on the tactical map.
With full realism on, there are no ships on tactical map...???

Lets turn it around pls... I'll ask question and u answer :P

The range I can get from my officer if I'm on the surface.
I then use the mast measuring thing to get the same answer that the officer said.
At close range, say 600meters... getting the range is easier still.
I push the pause button when the scopes center horizontal line is on at the water line and i then click the master measure thing and I get a reading.

The angle and speed of the target is where i get messed up.
So the target is say 1000meters away, from mast/officer method.

I then put a guestimate for the angle on bow, sometimes using the ships book.
Now for the speed... the problems...
Lets suppose that the angle on bow is 45degrees.
I then start my speed reading timer...
By the time that even a minute goes by, the ship might some 25degrees off.
Which 'angle on bow' do I want? The angle at start, middle, or finish of my speed timer???
Also... if my uboat is moving... does that throw off the reading entirely?
I got a reading of 15knts on a ship that I was running parallel to and I wasn't even doing 15knts when I got ahead of it. :(

Only way to really get the targets speed that I can see, is run a parallel course for awhile, which is not easy to do.
Only way to run a parallel course to a ship, is trail it for a long time so that we know we are exactly behind the ship, and heading in the same direction of the ship. Now we would know the course to try to parallel the ship. We catch up to a side of the ship, run a parallel course, and finally, change our own speed untill the ship doesn't move in our crosshairs... The ships speed would be the same as our speed.

The angle on bow again for the firing... do we want the angle on bow to be the reading when we fire the torpedo... or the angle on bow for when the torpedo will hit the ship? Or somewhere in the middle? (considering that at close range, this value changes rapidly.)

[Harmsway!]

Neat stuff with the nav aids to intercept the ship, I'll click around on that stuff more often. Thanks.

The measurements and attack run...
Ya lost me on the part that shows the ships on the tactical map.
With full realism on, there are no ships on tactical map...???

...


With full realism on ships that you come in contact with do not show on the map but ships reported to you will be plotted for a short time. Long enough to make your own marks and predictions. Think of those ships as being radio messages.

As to all of the rest of your questions you will find good answers to at Wazoo's Manual Charting & Targeting Tutorial (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/)

[P_Funk]

In order to get speed of a target you need the range and bearing. Convert bearing to bearing due north (bearing to target + your course = bearing due north. -360 if over 360). Mark your position on the map, then the enemy's position given bearing and range by drawing a line from your position along the bearing due north. Press the stopwatch the moment you get the target information and mark your position immediately if you are moving. Wait 3 minutes and 15 seconds and repeat the process. Once you have marked the enemy's position again draw a line between the two marks. Waiting 3:15 means that every 100 metres travelled by the target represents 1 knot. So the distance between these two plots of the target's position is the target's speed. It's actually pretty easy with a bit of practice.

Read Wazoo's for a description with pictures.

[kylania]

Just had my first patrol tonite and used this guide to get into the PERFECT position to sink my first merchant ship tonite.:yep:

Thanks so much for the guide, even though I do still need more work on getting it down smoother. :oops:

[RedMenace]

Great job, man! Took me about half an hour, but I finally figured out how to make decent intercept courses! Great work, really.:up:

[kylania]

Since there's been a few new captains here, enjoy The Hunt. Perhaps the single best thread I'd read when I was new to SH3. :)

[P_Funk]

Indeed it took what we learned from Wazoo and took it to a new level.

Speaking of which:http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/

Noobs may enjoy at will.

[danurve]

25+ Steps ... :o angles of grace

Interesting and downright an art form.
It would make more sense to me if when I was a lad my Math teacher wasn't hot and I paid more attention in class.

[Iron Budokan]

I used it to help me intercept a convoy last night. Really good work and helpful.

[DirtyACE]

This is very good info indeed. I have a question though. I was trying to plot an intercept course but then saw that the circle you draw in one of the first steps did not intersect any of the line, in fact it was quite past it. Does this mean that I made a mistake somewhere or does it mean that interception is not possible?

[Sigurd]

This is very good info indeed. I have a question though. I was trying to plot an intercept course but then saw that the circle you draw in one of the first steps did not intersect any of the line, in fact it was quite past it. Does this mean that I made a mistake somewhere or does it mean that interception is not possible?
I've had that problem as well (namely, the line from my U-boat to the contact doesnt intersect the circle). What I do is extend the line until it does intersect the circle, mark it, and go from there.

I think it works anyway. Lately, my contacts have all been ones that I just spot on the horizon.

[Brag]

Excellent!! :up:

[sasquatch]

hmm, this looks a little tough as I'm on my first career. But I'll be givin it a try soon...

[niteflier]

When I click on the pdf version "here", It takes me to the freenet site.... but it doesnt do anything;no response;no pdf download.

Has the Adobe file been deleted? Any info appreciated!! Ken

[nirwana]

@ Schpeedy

For close attacks around 700m at a 90 degree angle (i dont like 45 at this distance) to the course of the target i set AOB 35/45 (merchant/warship), speed to 6knts, bearing zero and fire as soon as the target's bow passes the zero bearing in the scope or tactical map. 8 out of 10 it hits right in the center.

[Pisces]

When I click on the pdf version "here", It takes me to the freenet site.... but it doesnt do anything;no response;no pdf download.

Has the Adobe file been deleted? Any info appreciated!! KenNo, the link works for me perfectly. I used Opera 9.27 and it asked if wanted to save that file or open it using the apropriate application (Adobe). Both worked. My IE 6.0 showed the file using the plugin for viewing pdf's.

You may want to check if your Adobe/pdf-viewer is in working order.

[Pisces]

@ Schpeedy

For close attacks around 700m at a 90 degree angle (i dont like 45 at this distance) to the course of the target i set AOB 35/45 (merchant/warship), speed to 6knts, bearing zero and fire as soon as the target's bow passes the zero bearing in the scope or tactical map. 8 out of 10 it hits right in the center.Looked at the date of his message?

[niteflier]

Just looked at the date: Feb 2006

Any place else to get the pdf.file?

[niteflier]

I'll check my Adobe Reader; Thanks for the help

[Brag]

Excellent post. It is great to see so much time and effort made for the benefit of the community.

[kylania]

Just looked at the date: Feb 2006

Any place else to get the pdf.file?

I'll check when I get home. I know I have copies of the FLV videos he had for this, I should still have the PDF.

[ReM]

Here (http://rapidshare.com/files/145569414/The_Hunt_1_.pdf.html) it is

[Darksun]

This is an easy alternative to the 3:15 rule.

If you are doing 100% realism I highly recomend OneLifeCrisis mod. If you don't have it, you can still use it's method for determining the speed of a target you can see.

I order to use it, you need to time the ship moving past a fixed wire like the one in the periscope. In order to work your speed needs to be accounted for. You can either come to a dead stop (good luck) or you can point your boat right at (or away) from the target.

You need an AOB that's somewhat off to the side of the ship. 90 works great. The magic of this method is that as long as the ship isn't heading right toward or directly away from you, it works. Any AOB that's not 350-10 or 170-190 will work.

Put the center line of the scope right in front of the ship. When the bow touches, start the clock. Don't move the scope! When the end of the stern is just passing the wire, stop the clock.

Speed in Knots = 1.94 x ship length / time in seconds

[Pisces]

Just looked at the date: Feb 2006

Any place else to get the pdf.file?There is nothing wrong with the link to the pdf in the 1st message. I can download it without a problem.

[Steeltrap]

Thanks for the great aid.........but question. You stated you noticed you and the target would arrive at the intercept point at the same time.

How do you know what time the target will get there ? His est speed/distance to point ?

It's because this method solves for an intercept point using plots based on the same 'distance per kt of speed'. In essance you're solving:

"What course do I need to set so that the target and I arrive at the SAME POINT at the SAME TIME?"

Without going into the underlying trig, your intercept course will get you at YOUR speed to the same point the target will get at ITS speed in an identical amount of time - hence you will get there together. Plotted/calculated perfectly, you would actually collide.....:rotfl:

That's why the 'intercept speed x initial proportionality measure' circle is centred on the initial plot line for the target:
i.e. 1km per kt of speed of target = 6km line based on target's speed of 6kts
Hence, at an intercept speed of 12kts the 'proportionate circle' is a radius of 12 x 1 = 12kms, and this is centred on the point along the target plot 6km from initial plot point.

Hope that answered your question without making it more confusing!

Great info. thanks ! Looks like I was making it harder than it actually is :oops:

So basically, since you always want to get to the intercept point before the target, you must always travel to that point at a greater speed than what you used as a reference when plotting the intercept point, correct ?

Theoretically, with all measurements perfect and plotting perfect, your intercept will result in you colliding (as I mentioned).

This won't really happen as the measurements/plotting won't be that exact. The real point is that you will know that, worst case, you'll be getting there when the target does. That means you just adjust things based on weather conditions (for example, if the weather is poor you'll want to be able to submerge so you can hear the contact approaching). For better weather, especially with the 16km visibility enhancement, you'll see the target in plenty of time.

Another thing you can do is see how much time you've got to get to your target point based on your planned speed, then increase speed for the last few hours. This should have you sitting around the area a few hours in advance. If I do that, I then plot a course back toward the target's known location then proceed at slow speed at 25m depth - you'll hear it on your hydrophone out to 20km easily.

[Red Heat]

Well done...outstanding job! :D

[UnderseaLcpl]

Wow, this is old. Nice, but old.

[Kipparikalle]

Fantastic work Herr Kaleun with big H

Outstanding, this efficiently help the new Kaleuns to learn faster to sink British wessels, and win the war for us. For the Third Kindomn lasting over 1000 years!

:arrgh!:

[JHuschke]

Yes, but it is pretty hard to remember all that..need to keep doing that so I can remember it often! May I ask, can there be a tutorial mission? lol

:dead: So much!

[Darksun]

Yes, but it is pretty hard to remember all that..need to keep doing that so I can remember it often! May I ask, can there be a tutorial mission? lol

:dead: So much!

Just print out my quick reference guide earlier in this thread. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=280892&postcount=41

Once you do it a couple of times you will see how easy getting and intercept is. The hard part (in 100%) is getting the targets exact course and speed. Once you have that, the plotting is really pretty simple.

-D

[Otto Heinzmeir]

Darksun, thanks for that diagram, makes things real simple. The entire post is amazing. I have been playing for less than a week. Before this post I had done 4 missions in a campaign and was averaging 1 and 1/2 ships sunk per mission. After reading this thread, in my last 2 missions I sank 14 ships. Thanks everyone for the info! I use 96% realism with no mod. The only thing I left checked was no dud torpedoes.

Setting up the fast 90 attacks is a great deal of fun without nav updates as there is no cheating in getting 500 to 700 feet of the targets track. Someone had mentioned about the watchman calling out bearing and distance. I get 3 readings from him about a minute apart. Then I draw the angle off my bow that corresponds to the bearing and measure the distance and mark the ship location this way. Connect the 3 marks and I have his track. Its usually off a degree or 2. So I have to eyeball him as he nears and either back up or go forward. One time I was sitting right on his track and didn't get far enough away to fire as the torps don't arm until 300 feet. Is it 300? I don't know for sure but from trial and error I believe it is.

The last mission I just finished was a blast. By the time I reached my patrol area I had sunk 6 ships and was down to 4 torps. I got a radio message about a huge convoy in the sector just south of the one I was assigned. I arrived to meet it about 1 hour before sunrise. Upon locating the convoy I veared away about 1 km so to remain unseen and planned my attack about 7 km further along their path. I had my eyes on a cargo ship. The sea was rough and bad visibility. I was getting reports on multiple bearings. Being that I only had 4 torps left, I figured I better just hit what comes across and run. A warship had moved ahead of the merchant ships and he was write in the spot where I was set to ambush from. Seeing as in the campaign I hadn't sunk a warship yet. I let him have the first torp. Turns out it was just a cutter. But I had a ship coming directly at my 90. I mean dead center, so I had to pull the trigger and flank ahead.

Then I turned into another ship and fired from 00 and hit his bow, I think it was a liberty cargo, the torp hit and he caught fire but didn't sink. I had the torp running at 4 meters deep as earlier, I had set one to run 1 meter under the keel of a merchant ship and in the high seas when the ship got pitched up on a wave the torp was too deep to detonate.
At this point some ships are zigging around and in the dark its total chaous. I dove to 20 meters, went under the cargo ship thinking I could finish it off with my stern torp. When I came back up to periscope depth it was like Christmas for any U-boat commander. A big juicy T3 Tanker broadside to me and moving at a snails pace. I just turned about 10 degrees and sent a torpedo just in front of his bow. He was maybe 800 meters away. I had set the torp to run 1 meter below his keel. It hit him dead center,he split in 2 and sank in about 20 seconds.Then I missed with my last stern torp and headed all the way back to Kiel from sector AL37 with no torps. Plus ran out of diesel and made the last leg on batteries. But I got 2 medals after sinking 28 tons. :rock:

Still I was cursing that I had only 4 torps when I arrived at the convoy. The other 5 missions when I was on patrol, not a single ship was in my sector:stare:

So thanks again for all the tips guys. This is the most fun I've ever had playing a video game!:arrgh!:

[Pisces]

Well done Otto :yeah: Pat your navigator on his back. He deserves it too. ;)

As you get really close to the convoy keep a check on how the ships in the collumns and row line up. Very telling information. If a collumn (in direction of movement) is lined up you are right on their path and need to watch getting ran over as was your case. (or you could be behind them and that is an excellent opportunity to get their course to a degree accurate) If you are next to the convoy and see rows (sideways to direction of movement) lined up you can also get their course (row direction +/- 90 degrees). But it also allows you to match their speed accurately. (it is allready given as you get the longdistance map report, but they can allways make an unsuspected course speed change) Keep them lined up by adjusting your speed, and then measure the distance you have moved on the map over some time (3 minutes is a bit on the short side, it get's a rough estimate imho), convert that to a speed. Just make sure it's not a lined-up convoy diagonal you are looking at.

[cueball7000]

I loaded GWX3.0 and Commander 2.7. Do I own all the mods needed to follow this and Wazoo's instructions?

[Pisces]

Yes, it has the inverted compas scale on the line tool, and the nomograph on the map iirc. That's the most basic you need.

[rfxcasey]

<Edit: PDF version here (http://people.freenet.de/latemail/The_Hunt.PDF) - Gizzmoe>


So you draw a circle, centered at the end of the ruler measurement you did in step 3, with a radius of 160 mks... why 160 mks? because in step three you chose to represent each knot by 10 mks, remember? (If in step three you'de had measured 6 kms for the 6 knots you would now be drawing a circle radius of 16 kms for 16 knots, and so on). Let's look at your circle



Does he mean kms? what is an mks? Someone needs to fix that.

[Pisces]

Yes, he must mean kilometers (kms). Though I've never used it in plural like that before. It's allways km, whether it's just one, or a gazillion. Definately wrong in a physical sense since it could mean 'kilometer-seconds'. Which could be some kind unit of a relativistic/Einstein concept of space-time. But I'm sure Dantenoc didn't go there. :)

[sharkbit]

Mods:

This thread should be a stickie. One of the best on intercepting ships. People can learn a lot of basics from this. Plus, there is the link to Wasserman's manual targeting tutorial.
Thanks.

:)

[WilyPete]

Yes, he must mean kilometers (kms). Though I've never used it in plural like that before. It's allways km, whether it's just one, or a gazillion. Definately wrong in a physical sense since it could mean 'kilometer-seconds'. Which could be some kind unit of a relativistic/Einstein concept of space-time. But I'm sure Dantenoc didn't go there. :)

In official English, "kilometres" should always be abreviated to: "kms". There is a "kilometres per second" notation and that is: "km/s". So he's right in using "kms" to denote kilometres. :yeah:

[RoaldLarsen]

In official English, "kilometres" should always be abreviated to: "kms". There is a "kilometres per second" notation and that is: "km/s". So he's right in using "kms" to denote kilometres. :yeah:
In fact, he is wrong. According to "The International System of Units (SI)" 8th edtion, 2006, published by
Organisation Intergouvernementale de la Convention du Mètre, in other words, according to the official standard:

Unit symbols are mathematical entities and not abbreviations. Therefore, they are not followed by a period except at the end of a sentence, and one must neither use the plural nor mix unit symbols and unit names within one expression, since names are not mathematical entities.(empahsis added)

So in official English, "kilometres" should always be written either as "kilometres", or "km", never as "kms".

[Spunky48]

I understand all but step 4.

So you draw a circle, centered at the end of the ruler measurement you did in step 3, with a radius of 160 mks... why 160 mks? because in step three you chose to represent each knot by 10 mks, remember? (If in step three you'de had measured 6 kms for the 6 knots you would now be drawing a circle radius of 16 kms for 16 knots, and so on).At what point did I choose to represent each knot by 10 mks? I don't understand how this works. My brother said it has to do with scale and tried to explain it to me, but I didn't get it. :oops:

Edit: Figured it out. I'm somehow doing it halfassedly, don't really know how to be precise with it, but it works, sort of.

[Pisces]

You could have done it with a scale of 1km for every knot. But that becomes a tiny drawing. Or 100 km for every knot. But then it may be too big so you loose oversight on the map. But other scalefactors require multiplication of numbers. 10 km per 1 knot is just moving over the decimal point and still reasonably in scale with the actual distance to your victim.

[Spunky48]

Yeah, that's what I figured out. But I don't know hot to set a true intercept course. I always arrive way too early (or sometimes too late).

[Red Heat]

Great work, Dantenoc...well done! :yeah:

[JMV]

Spunky48

A good tutorial there for Intercepting just in time :

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=857101043&m=5051056603

And Math speaking in general ( From my archives ) :

ANGLE TO INTERCEPT

================================================== ====

To calculate the angle you need to turn from to intercept the contact. You should use knots as the the u-boat and ship's speeds.

Angle to intercept :

Sin-1 ( Target's speed * Sin ( AOB ))
= -------------------------------------------------------------
u-boat speed

now use this formula to calculate the angle you need to turn from to intercept the contact. You should use knots as the the u-boat and ship's speeds.

If my u-boat is traveling at 12 knots and the contact is traveling at approximately 5 knots :

Sin-1 ( 5* Sin ( 123 ) / 12 ) = 20.4534 Degree

And so the angle I need to turn to intercept the ship is 20.4534 degrees


================================================


:salute:

[Pisces]

Yeah, that's what I figured out. But I don't know hot to set a true intercept course. I always arrive way too early (or sometimes too late).Did you intercept based on a specific given speed (like you get from a convoy report) or just estimated based on a vague speed range (slow, medium or fast, like a single-unit map contact report). If the last then it is perfectly normal that you arrive to early or too late. The method in this thread is a true intercept. It's just that the information provided by the game contains uncertainties (as it should). So you either take worst-case values and decide to let the most difficult ones pass, or accept the chance some of your intercepts fail.

[Spunky48]

I follow the tutorial to the letter. Slow = 6 knots, medium = 9 knots, and I'm not going to waste fuel catching up to fast (which I assume is 12 knots).

[JHuschke]

Haha I'm printing this out.. :P

[Dimitrius07]

Little math + some practice = victory. Without map contact update it will be harder.

[Pisces]

I follow the tutorial to the letter. Slow = 6 knots, medium = 9 knots, and I'm not going to waste fuel catching up to fast (which I assume is 12 knots).In my experience slow units go upto 7.5 knots maximum, anything above that until 11.5 knots is medium speed. So that explains why you sometimes end up late to the party. You probably didn't do anything wrong with your intercept, other than underestimating his speed. If you use the above speeds you'll allways end up in front of him. Infact most often I don't hear it yet on hydrophone and so I need to search for him along his course-track. Which can sometimes take hours if you find out it was actually doing 4 knots instead of 7.5. :damn: But then he's toast anyway. I hardly ever encounter merchants going fast. Infact I can't even remember when. But I do want to catch medium speed ships so I do assume it's speed is 11.5. It all depends on where I am in relation to his contact report if I actually go after it. I made a rule to allow the contact to move 175km maximum during my intercept. If I am at that point at that time the contact should still be within hydrophone range despite his course being a bit off (+- 11.25 degrees). That is to say, if you listen yourself, your crew might not be sensitive enough to hear him.

[Wuss]

is there a printable version of the hunt,i would love one to practice with,the link to the pdf on the original post is dead now.

[Pisces]

Unfortunately I never stored this PDF on my harddrive.

But ..... it was stored here on subsim allready in the Download-section :rock:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1081

[Wuss]

thanks Pisces,dont know why i didnt find that link :salute:

[Gangrene]

I use a MUCH SIMPLER way to plot an intercept, it's easier and very accurate... Stock game... You are given the location, angle, and "rough speed".

1. Draw the path: There is a tail on the mark, draw a line from the tip of the tail through the ship and far off ahead of it. You can pull the line far ahead and still adjust the line to match the direction as close as you can. If you want to be exact or not do any math you can draw a second line from the actual point of the ship and not the tail... then delete the original line to get it out of the way.

2. Now draw a line from your sub to their ships original location, DON'T click it(lock it in), just mentally note the distance, then start adjusting the line along the path until the two distances match.

Now, if you travel there at the same speed you would both hit that spot at the same time.

3. Simply adjust one or more factors to insure you arrive before them.
3a. You can travel to that location at a faster speed. Assume 6-7.. Go 8-9 knots... for example.
3b. measure the distance so theirs is a little longer than yours. So maybe your line intersects at 25km on their line and 21km on your line. If you travel at the same speed you'll arrive at that point and their ship should be about 4km away... depending on your skills and their speed you should be able to adjust your position and calculate your solution in plenty of time.

Expand your skills: As you do this over and over again you'll get better at it. and you can adjust more factors like... if you think they are traveling 6 knots and you want to travel at 12. Simply have your ship double the distance they travel and you should arrive at the same place, same time(This is useful for distant ships where you are going to have to out distance them to intercept). Eventually you'll be able to adjust your angle and speed(together) and be confident with your math in your head.

And there you have it! No angles, no trigonometry, etc... simple as it gets, JUST TWO LINES and look at their lengths.

That's just getting to the ship... I have other techniques I use to put it down. ;)

Does that help anybody?

[Pisces]

You are doing basically the same. So I wouldn't call this more simpler. The described method are systematic steps that you can make a routine. Whereas yours is more (gu)estimating the proper intercept location. Whatever works for you.

[sixcoins]

Spunky48

A good tutorial there for Intercepting just in time :

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=857101043&m=5051056603




Hello! I clicked on this link, and it opened up the UbiSoft forums main page. My search didn't bring up an intercept tutorial.

I'm sad now.

I appreciate you putting it in here, though.... I'll do some more searching around and see what I can find.

Thanks!

Six.

[sharkbit]

From the downloads section:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1081

Try downloading the file. I believe that will give you what you want.

:)

[Red Heat]

I believe its a very good instrument specially for the beginners or simple for those who wants to make the things "by the book"... :)

[audio-junkie]

What an awesome guide! I can't wait to begin stalking reported contacts. I usually missed many of them before, but now I have a surefire way of making sure I arrive ahead of schedule and sending those contacts to the Deep Six.

[Demonwolf]

this rele helps thanks

[Gustav Lt. Jr]

I know this is a little late, but I just started playing this game. It's so awesome and this helps a lot. So thanks

[flag4]

my god. this was posted on...02-01-2006, 06:10 AM

incredible:yep:

[ninja turtle]

my god. this was posted on...02-01-2006, 06:10 AM

incredible:yep:

And still a really helpful tutorial :up: Subsim is just a fountain of info for those still learning. Love it :subsim:

[tsotha]

Do ships and convoys change course more often with GWX? More than a few hours and the target isn't where I expect.

[ninja turtle]

Do ships and convoys change course more often with GWX? More than a few hours and the target isn't where I expect.

I haven't played the stock game for a few years and only GWX in the last few months so I'm not 100% sure. However I did come across this example just a couple of days ago:

Spotted a lone merchant ship.
Range worked out, line of direction worked out and speed using 3'15" method.

Manoeuvred sub into the perfect 90 degree angle, 600m range for attack using the torpedo bearing table.

Just sit and wait...

5 mins before the target hit the correct bearing I raised my periscope for a double check only to find that it was on the correct line of direction but had moved 200m nearer to my sub.

Emergency reverse so I'm not too close for the eels to arm themselves.

So the ship must have zig-zagged at some point. I was fortunate that it was still on the correct path.

I did sink it! :arrgh!:

[Steve Gad]

WOW! Pretty amazing read, especially since my uniform is still brand new and without a single patch of sweat anywhere. I'm sure that'll change as soon as I get out of the Academy. I'm stuck on the shelling exam at the moment, so I'm hunting for some tips on how not to waste all my ammo blowing up wooden crates on deck!

Thanks again, this will come in very handy.

[Pisces]

WOW! Pretty amazing read, especially since my uniform is still brand new and without a single patch of sweat anywhere. I'm sure that'll change as soon as I get out of the Academy. I'm stuck on the shelling exam at the moment, so I'm hunting for some tips on how not to waste all my ammo blowing up wooden crates on deck!

Thanks again, this will come in very handy.Do you have stock SH3, or modded the game, like with GWX?

The bigger mods changed the sinking mechanics to prefer damage from flooding, instead of direct hitpoints. So, put some holes below the waterline, and in different spots along the hull. Not all in one spot.

[ntz]

yeah, for single target is asking watch officer for measuring its course and speed good if you don't have god's eye enabled (funny is, that all of the most serious guides about mathematical conclusion of speed and course was built upon the marking exact position via enabled god's eye) .. problem is, if you're targeting more ships from convoy .. your WO will still refer only the closest one ..

i play on 100% realism and it's very hard to get enemy's speed from one spot by measuring ..


to be honest i usually make all decisions off hand by some initial measuring .. distance is obvious (it starts to be precise below 3000m), AOB is tricky but still can be derived by eye and the speed should be also precise if you have good watching position (AOB 60-120, 150-210) ..

my second approach is to line up for a while with the target and get this way its course and speed .. disadvantage is that you should count with submerged speed so you'll hardly track this way even medium speed targets

[werwulf]

Thank you for this thread! I downloaded the file, so I will have a copy of it to explore at leisure. For those of us who are not really math experts, it is always great to have step by step instructions!

Thank you once again.

Wassail. :salute:

[cv02011]

Unfortunately I never stored this PDF on my harddrive.

But ..... it was stored here on subsim allready in the Download-section :rock:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1081

Thank you very much for this post. I was looking all over for the pdf version.
Does anyone happen to have a copy of the online community manual?

It's terrible to see such a valuable resource go missing. I would be happy to host it if someone has a copy of the content.

[Gerald]

:salute:

[Sinkmore]

Great demonstration - thanks! It's still helping skippers find targets, 8 yrs after the OP, which says something about Subsim and the SH community. Pretty amazing, really.

It's great to see it done with proper geometry. But I must boastfully say, I've always done it by guesstimation (pretty new to SH 3-4, but played endless SH2 back in the day), and I was able to guess the convoy's track in the original example within 1-2 degrees in 3 seconds just by eyeballing. With the initial, given speed and heading info being so vague (+/- 12.5 degrees heading, +/- 50% speed...), I figure eyeballing is usually good enough. I've missed my share of intercepts, though, (probably by "overthinking," non-methodically), so I will give this method a try and see if it gets me more intercepts.

In a way, doing it by math will be EASIER than eyeballing and guesstimating - less stress about whether it's a good course etc. And the map tools are fun to play with. So I will try this, and I will enjoy it more when I hear screws closing slow at 270, on schedule.

Again - Thanks!

[Leitender]

I couldn´t see if it´s mentioned, but Dantenoc did also an outstanding video tutorial then which is still available on youtoube:

The video hunt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkYI8z7LtkA)

Further, he did some hardcore navigation trials with Silent Hunter:

Hardcore Navigation in Silent Hunter III (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3yDDIS1GBk)

Finally, Paul "Wazoo" Wassermann´s tutorial is still available on his site (without pics). Only the adress has changed:

http://www.paulwasserman.net/

Maybe one could update Dantonoc´s first post?

Happy hunting!

[Pisces]

I couldn´t see if it´s mentioned, but Dantenoc did also an outstanding video tutorial then which is still available on youtoube:

The video hunt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkYI8z7LtkA)[/URL]

Maybe one could update Dantonoc´s first post?

Happy hunting!A couple of months later he did start this thread publishing the videos:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97682

[Leitender]

My request for an update of the first post concerned the outdated link to Wazoo´s tutorial. But thank you although for giving that link to the video thread! It´s still interesting to reread that discussion :up:

Wazoo and Dantenoc were my teachers for learning manual targeting und for long range interception. Their tutorials are benchmarks!

[Darojax]

Big thankyou for this guide!

(Btw, the links to the pdf and the other guides in the first post no longer work.)

[AZTiger98]

Bit late, and admittedly haven't read all the way through all 10 pages of posts, but to answer the initial question about how to come up with 292.5 degrees for WNW heading, it's done like this:

North = 0 deg
East = 90 deg
South = 180 deg
West = 270 deg

These are the basic cardinal directions.

Now add in the four midpoint directions:

NE = 45 deg (halfway between North and East)
SE = 135 deg (halfway between East and South)
SW = 225 deg (halfway between South and West)
NW = 315 deg (halfwy between West and North)

Now, to get the non-standard headings such as NNE, or ENE, it's simply halfway between the midpoint direction and the cardinal direction:

NNE = (0+45) / 2 = 22.5 deg
ENE = (45 + 90)/2 = 67.5 deg
ESE = (90+135)/2 = 112.5 deg
SSE = (135+180)/2 = 157.5 deg
SSW = (180+225)/2 = 202.5 deg
WSW = (225 + 270)/2 = 247.5 deg
WNW = (270 + 315) / 2 = 292.5 deg
NNW = (315 + 360) / 2 = 337.5 deg (yes, used 360 instead of 0 - if you use 0 for north here, the calculation will be way off)

Hope that helps anyone still looking for the quick and dirty translations from direction to degree heading.

[Koranis]

Hi, is there anyone who managed to download the pdf when it was still available? This is a very good guide, it would be a shame if we lost it. If anyone with the pdf available could re-upload it somewhere it would be very very helpful.

[Tricky]

Hi, is there anyone who managed to download the pdf when it was still available? This is a very good guide, it would be a shame if we lost it. If anyone with the pdf available could re-upload it somewhere it would be very very helpful.

The Hunt (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jkhw8kohxm0hv5c/The_Hunt.zip?dl=0)

:salute:

[Koranis]

Thank you!

[GalaxyMaster06]

This guide helped me a BUNCH.
I managed to sink 10 ships using information from this guide, a 3 of them were warships.
Thank you

[CTU_Clay]

This guide helped me a BUNCH.
I managed to sink 10 ships using information from this guide, a 3 of them were warships.
Thank you

Your first post. Welcome to SubSim GalaxyMaster06! :Kaleun_Salute:

[Howitzer]

Just checking if anyone has an active link to the PDFs from this tutorial? Looks like the author's site is gone.

[Anvar1061]

Just checking if anyone has an active link to the PDFs from this tutorial? Looks like the author's site is gone.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2296944&postcount=140

[John Pancoast]

Old thread I know, but how was the convoy's time to the intercept point determined ?
He knew he had to speed up to beat the convoy to the intercept point, but how was this known, in other words ?

[bstanko6]

The speed table sheet gives you in hours or minutes how far a ship will travel at what speed. Just compute where the convoy will be in what time, the compute your speed to intercept.

[John Pancoast]

The speed table sheet gives you in hours or minutes how far a ship will travel at what speed. Just compute where the convoy will be in what time, the compute your speed to intercept.

Ok, thanks. I downloaded the pdf of The Hunt but there's no speed table sheet that I saw.
Have to do some looking around.

[bstanko6]

Conovaro has a guide you can print. If you use a mega mod they usually have a sheet you can drag at the nav map.

[bstanko6]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1487

[John Pancoast]

Thanks very much !

[Alchemix]

I signed up with the forum for the sole purpose of saying thank you for the well thought through approach of teaching this.

[Steve Gad]

<Edit: PDF version here (http://people.freenet.de/latemail/The_Hunt.PDF) - Gizzmoe>

First of all, let me start by saying that I didn't reinvent the wheel or claim that I did.

I didn't realise there was another part. I'm STILL OUT THERE, waiting for the follow up post.
Damn, I been here too long, better head back. Never mind the time - look at the DATE!!! :arrgh!:

[Steve Gad]

I signed up with the forum for the sole purpose of saying thank you for the well thought through approach of teaching this.

Well done buddy. It's a good idea to thank the guys who put a lot into helping us, er... shall we say less-orientated types, and a thank you costs nothing.
:Kaleun_Cheers: