XXI Flak and Battery Fix v2 [ MOD RELEASE ]

[VonHelsching]

XXI Flak and Battery Fix v3 by VonHelsching (concept for battery fix by Ducimus)

*UPDATE* Underwater range corrected. All RL references now in nautical miles.

This fix addresses four problems:

1. The usability of XXI flaks in winds up to 10 m/s and heavy rain. Clearly, by denying the use of the XXI closed flak turrets with a breeze of 7 m/s was not realistic. Now you should be able to finish off that half-sunk small merchant after you fired your last torpedo. ;-) The only downside is that your crew will wear their rain-gear only after 11 m/s winds and really heavy rain, since this attribute is linked to what SH3 thiks is "storm conditions".

2. The never-ending XXI battery_re-loading_to_99,9%_SH3_bug. Now your battery should re-load up to 10 hours (if it was depleted 100%). Since I'm a big fan of XXI, this was a MAJOR flaw in the game for me. This is not the same fix with one that appeared a while ago and actually gave endless energy to the batteries. -----> Original idea / concept by Ducimus <-------

3. The default snorkeldepth is now 16m (just press ";"). Now your snorkel should be less visible by planes. It is recommended only in relatively calm waters though. Is the sea is rough, the snorkel periodically will be covered with water and your crew will be switching between diesel and electics all the time; In rough waters with periscope depth you should be almost OK.

4.*UPDATE* from Real Battery Life / Advanced NASA Battery Fix* After the fix, your XXI will have from now around 40% less of the unhonourable underwater range you falsely had from the stock SH3. Now, you can boast that you are the true heir of Schepcke and Topp, since your u-boat batteries will scream "Empty" when you pass the true range limit of 285 miles @ 6 knots starting speed

5. Fixes the famous "Radar Destroyed" for the snorkel radar. No no, I'm just joking! This is my next project.


This fix is JSGME compatible. Just unzip in your MODS folder and enable with JSGME. If you do not have JSGME just copy and replace the two small files included here in sh3/data/Submarine/NSS_Uboat21. Back up your original files first, just in case!


Download rapidshare link:



http://rapidshare.de/files/15327735/XXI_Flak_and_Battery_Fix_v3.zip.html

or
[/URL][URL="http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/helsing/sh3mods/XXI%20Flak%20and%20Battery%20Fix%20v3.zip"]http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/helsing/sh3mods/XXI Flak and Battery Fix v3.zip (http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/helsing/sh3mods/XXI)

Have Fun! And tell me if you need any modifications.

Many thanks Ducimus!!!! :rock:

VonHelsching

P.S for Moderators

How does it get to the master mod / fix list in SH3 Mods workshop?

[Gizzmoe]

Mirror

http://home.arcor.de/gizzmoe/files/XXI_Flak_and_Battery_Fix_v2.zip

How does it get to the master mod / fix list in SH3 Mods workshop?

Send a PM to martes86.

[phatmatt]

thanks greatly appreciated. :up:

added to my site under Gameplay / Functionality.

[VonHelsching]

Thanks Gizzmoe & phatmatt! :up:

[Ducimus]

Thanks for tossing my name out :-j

I dunno if proper credit is due to me or not honestly. I find it hard to beleive nobody has tweaked the XXI the way i described to in another post, its a real easy fix, although the recharge times are a bit long, it does work.

[Average Joe]

Hmm, sounds neat.

I'm just test-crusing with the XXI, after being blown to pieces Sept/1944 (it was really bad! :doh:)

Does the XXI battery fix 'auto-switch' back into diesel mode once the batteries are fully charged, or must diesel engines still be engaged manually?

[Marhkimov]

I find it hard to beleive nobody has tweaked the XXI the way i described to in another post...
Already done buddy... :)

[VonHelsching]

Hmm, sounds neat.

Does the XXI battery fix 'auto-switch' back into diesel mode once the batteries are fully charged, or must diesel engines still be engaged manually?

It does auto-switch once the battery is 100%. :up:

[VonHelsching]

Thanks for tossing my name out :-j

I dunno if proper credit is due to me or not honestly. I find it hard to beleive nobody has tweaked the XXI the way i described to in another post, its a real easy fix, although the recharge times are a bit long, it does work.

Actually, I tossed your name IN :D

It is hard to believe that nobody did it up until today, but it was your post that made me think and started tweaking diesel and electrics attribudes :know:

Now we just have to work out the "Radar Destroyed" bug. :hmm:

I think this is a problem with the specific radar, not the XXI, right?

Any ideas?

[Marhkimov]

Ducimus fixed that too. The settings can be altered in Basic.cfg. Check my TypeXXI settings.



Year0=1943
ForeTube00=3 ;T1
ForeTube01=3
ForeTube02=3
ForeTube03=3
ForeTube04=1
ForeTube05=1
ForeResIntern00=0
ForeResIntern01=0
ForeResIntern02=0
ForeResIntern03=0
ForeResIntern04=3
ForeResIntern05=3
ForeResIntern06=3
ForeResIntern07=3
ForeResIntern08=3
ForeResIntern09=3
ForeResIntern010=3
ForeResIntern011=5
ForeResIntern012=5
ForeResIntern013=1
ForeResIntern014=1
ForeResIntern015=1
ForeResIntern016=1
Z01_00=12 ; IX/3
A01_00=9
A02_00=9
SuperCharger_00=1260
Snorkel_00=1262
Batteries_00=1269
AftBatteries_00=1269
Hydrophone_00=1272
Sonar_00=1274
Radar_00=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_00=1283
Decoy_Launcher_00=1288
SonarCoatings_00=1304
RadarCoatings_00=1305
Renown0=30000


Year1=1944
ForeTube10=3 ;T1
ForeTube11=3
ForeTube12=1
ForeTube13=1
ForeTube14=4
ForeTube15=4
ForeResIntern10=3
ForeResIntern11=3
ForeResIntern12=3
ForeResIntern13=3
ForeResIntern14=3
ForeResIntern15=3
ForeResIntern16=3
ForeResIntern17=6
ForeResIntern18=6
ForeResIntern19=1
ForeResIntern110=1
ForeResIntern111=1
ForeResIntern112=1
ForeResIntern113=4
ForeResIntern114=4
ForeResIntern115=4
ForeResIntern116=4
Z01_10=12 ; IX/3
A01_10=9
A02_10=9
SuperCharger_10=1260
Snorkel_10=1262
Batteries_10=1269
AftBatteries_10=1269
Hydrophone_10=1272
Sonar_10=1274
Radar_10=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_10=1283
Decoy_Launcher_10=1288
SonarCoatings_10=1304
RadarCoatings_10=1305
Renown1=30000


Year2=1945
ForeTube20=3 ;T1
ForeTube21=3
ForeTube22=6
ForeTube23=6
ForeTube24=4
ForeTube25=4
ForeResIntern20=3
ForeResIntern21=3
ForeResIntern22=3
ForeResIntern23=3
ForeResIntern24=3
ForeResIntern25=6
ForeResIntern26=6
ForeResIntern27=6
ForeResIntern28=6
ForeResIntern29=1
ForeResIntern210=1
ForeResIntern211=1
ForeResIntern212=1
ForeResIntern213=4
ForeResIntern214=4
ForeResIntern215=4
ForeResIntern216=4
Z01_20=12 ; IX/3
A01_20=9
A02_20=9
SuperCharger_20=1260
Snorkel_20=1262
Batteries_20=1269
AftBatteries_20=1269
Hydrophone_20=1272
Sonar_20=1274
Radar_20=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_20=1283
Decoy_Launcher_20=1288
SonarCoatings_20=1304
RadarCoatings_20=1305
Renown2=30000

[VonHelsching]

Marhkimov, Ducumus

How is this resolved with your basic.cfg? - I'm at work and cannot test it. By removing the radar altogether?

I thought this bug had something to do with the specific radar type and it's actual positioning on top of the snorkel. I read (that was 6 months ago...) that also other sub types suffered from the "Radar Destroyed" message. Also I remember one very old post with someone trying to replace the problematic radar with a radar detector, with no success...

Thanks for the input :up:

[Marhkimov]

I guess you can call it less of a fix and more of a workaround.

Me and Ducimus got rid of the radar syatem that was "broken" in the TypeXXI. Whether it can be fixed or not still stands to be seen...

[VonHelsching]

OK, I get it now. So, it is not yet solved. It's worth a try then!

In my first career I spent ~45 missions before I got my XXI...and the
bugs were a big dissapointment.

Thanks.

[Ducimus]

I didnt have anything to do with the XXI's radar!

I think Cmdr Gibbs was advocating that "fix" orginaly. Switching the radar type isnt a fix persay, but it is getting rid of the problem. Another one of his ideas was to increase the batt recharge bonus to like, 1000 instead of 1.25. (in action it makes the XXI a nuclear submarine).

THe problem specifically is the FUMO-391,s location of its radar mast. I dont remeber where i heard this but someone looked into it. The address for the snorkel radar is so far afield as to not even be located on the uboat - hence radar destroyed when the game tries to intialize it. This is a 3d modeler's issue i beleive.

ON a side note i beleive this is related to the "mattress" style radar aerial being located on the front of the conning tower in the same location as teh FumO 29. If i were to make a wild shot in the dark guess, id say theres only one Node available to attach radar masts too (hence why their always in the same location). So to get the arieals where they should be another node would have to be added. To fix the Fumo 391 it needs an active node to attach to. The easiest fix would probably to edit it to use the existing one on the base of the conning tower, which defeats its purpose.

[Mast]

Didn't even know there was a problem with the flak. :down: I made a comment in another post about the problems with the XXI. I'm starting to believe that they never completed the beta of XXI and just added it into the game. I do hope somebody can fix all of the type XXI problems.

Mast

[Average Joe]

It does auto-switch once the battery is 100%. :up:

Holy Smokes, thanks!! :arrgh!:

[Cdre Gibs]

Yes I was the 1 that originaly "FIXED" the Type XXI, still using that fix today.

Last time I got a credit wrong (by mistake) I was hounded by 1 an all. When this thread came out I didnt even utter a squeek. Remember that ppl.!!!!!

I have ony now made a comment because my name was mentioned. The Type XXI I still want to redo, may do so after the Stage 2 release, dunno.

[Marhkimov]

Sorry bud... My bad...

[Ducimus]

Yes I was the 1 that originaly "FIXED" the Type XXI, still using that fix today.



No offense Gibs, but i never liked the idea of fixing the XXI by increasing the batts from 1.25 to 1000 in the basic.fg. Yes it worked, but the boat became a nuclear submarine with an endless supply of energy. Only reason to stick the snorke up was for air. For me that really blew any sense of game immersion out of the water. This ultimatly is what motivated me to look a bit deeper into the issue. Once i got my hands on TT's tools, i started researching it.

Most of what i found was centered around getting the recharge times to historical accuracy. Based on their findings, i started making my own adjustments. I halved Emotor Horsepower by halve on the assumption that because it was unlike any other boat (all of which worked) that it was part ot the problem. (Type 7 is 750 HP, a type 9 is 1000 - by default an 21 is 5000 HP, cutting it to 2500 seems to be the compromise that works) After that i boosted the diesal HP and RPMs a tad bit to increase recharge rates, but at a minimal expense of fuel. The more you buff the diesals, the more fuel they guzzle.

But at any rate you did come up with the first solution.

[Cdre Gibs]

No offense Gibs, but i never liked the idea of fixing the XXI by increasing the batts from 1.25 to 1000 in the basic.fg.

None taken, I dont rant on like some. When I posted that lil fix, I also stated that the 1000 was what I used but would not recommend it for those who like realism. With tinkering it could be corrected, never said no 1 could not do so.

I halved Emotor Horsepower by halve on the assumption that because it was unlike any other boat (all of which worked) that it was part ot the problem. (Type 7 is 750 HP, a type 9 is 1000 - by default an 21 is 5000 HP, cutting it to 2500 seems to be the compromise that works) After that i boosted the diesal HP and RPMs a tad bit to increase recharge rates, but at a minimal expense of fuel. The more you buff the diesals, the more fuel they guzzle.

But at any rate you did come up with the first solution.

I also in that same thread stated that fiddling with the electric motor's and the diesal motor's corresponding SHP rating's and RPM's can/would give ppl a more dynamic choice as to how the battery system worked.

I'm only pointed ppl to where it could be adressed and showed them an example, nothing more. I pointed out that how ever ppl prefered to have this implemented it was always a personal choice.

[Ducimus]

At any rate, the boat recharges as normal for now, so.....
If anyone wants to fiddle with the XXI's performance further, heres my final thoguhts on the subject, if i were still intrested in this boat, this is what id be working on:


Poor turn radius:
hate making 3 point turns just to get out of port? Adjust the rudder drag to 0.05. its in the diesl propulsion section in the sim file. This is the same value as the type9.

Poor underwater endurance:
One thing that bugged me is how fast the bats drained.

-First, id adjust the CFG file so that "ahead slow" put me at 4 to 5 kts, instead of 7. (default for ahead slow is 0.40, id bring that down to 0.30 or so and try from there) 4 or 5 kt drains bats slower then 7.

- Adjust Kt to distance. Looking at my file right now, i have 350 miles @ 7 kts. It has been along time since ive played with an XXI, but i do remmeber tinkering with its underwater range to extend it a bit further. Shouldnt run the bats down to 50% in half a day, and i think this is what i was trying to address when i was fiddling with this.


Long recharge times:
Now this is the tricky part. I beleive that the more diesel Horsepower and RPMS you have the more produces more electircity,, thereby shortening your recharge times. However this has two side effects if you increase it too much.


1.) your top speed will increase ( i beleive its 1 kt for every 500 HP)
2.) you'll use fuel much faster.

Ignoring the proper diesal range at the moment. (15500 @ 10 kt i think) ramp up the RPMS and see if you can decrease the recharge times. If that doesnt do it, then increase the Horsepower, (likely you'll do both). Your going to have to strike a balance here.. too little and your boat takes all day to recharge, too much and you'll suck fuel down faster then a Chevy suburban, with the speed of a farari. So find the happy spot.

Once you do that, heres what i think. The diesal range? Fudge it. Before you do any of the above make note of how many Kilometers in game you can travel. (Navagation officer in game)

Once youve ramped up the diesals to get the recharge you want, your going to have to use an artifical number to produce that same KM distance traveled that the navagation officer gives you orginally. (for example if 15,500 @ 10 KM gives you 26,000 Km in game now, then you could end up with something like 25,000 @ 12 KM to produce the same 26,000 KM range)

Having done that, your going to have to adjust your speed. Again, use an artifical number. Say on the surface your top speed is supposed to be 15 KM, but your really doing 25. Arbitrarily reduce the top speed on the surface to 10 to accomidate for the bonus speed your gaining through the increased horsepower.

[VonHelsching]

Ducumus, thanks for the feedback! :rock:


Poor turn radius:
hate making 3 point turns just to get out of port? Adjust the rudder drag to 0.05. its in the diesl propulsion section in the sim file. This is the same value as the type9.


I fiddled a lot with the rudder, with some very funny results but decided not to include it in the fix. The reason is that a lot of people (more than 50%) of the forum would not approve of a solution that *might* not be realistic; Do we have any source about the manouverability of the XXI vs. VII or IX? My gut feeling is that XXI was something between VII and IX. Also, the drag should be linked to horsepower, right? It needs some further work...

As Spock would have said, the manuverabilty of the XXI is a "fascinating" issue...


Poor underwater endurance:
One thing that bugged me is how fast the bats drained.


This probably is a feature, not a bug. Uboat.net states that the XXI could provide "bursts" of 17 knots. Anyway, personally I like this!




-First, id adjust the CFG file so that "ahead slow" put me at 4 to 5 kts, instead of 7. (default for ahead slow is 0.40, id bring that down to 0.30 or so and try from there) 4 or 5 kt drains bats slower then 7.


@ all submarine gurus: Didn't all the subs have a "creep" speed (or was it a creep engine? :doh: )? I think Ducimus may have hit bullseye here, not only for the XXI, but for all the subs modelled in the game. Or is this modeled by the silent speed?

Re the long recharge times, I tried a lot of values, not finding any other better than the ones settled in the fix (close to the ones that you initially suggested). Although I'm a "gameplay" fan, having a surface speed bigger than ~15,5 (If I remember right) whould cross that little thin red line...Everyone is invited to play with the values and bring in alternative / better results :up:

And one question...In which folder should I start searching for the location of the schnorchel radar and for the graphics file of the radar also? Thanks!

[Ducimus]

I fiddled a lot with the rudder, with some very funny results but decided not to include it in the fix. The reason is that a lot of people (more than 50%) of the forum would not approve of a solution that *might* not be realistic; Do we have any source about the manouverability of the XXI vs. VII or IX? My gut feeling is that XXI was something between VII and IX. Also, the drag should be linked to horsepower, right?


Your right about the realism setting. What funny results did you get btw? I have a feeling it may be relating to fuel economy. As for the manoverabilty, when i chose to change it, i made my change based one two things
1. 3 pt turns suck
2. Too much manoverablity would be overpowering. I think i remember looking at the VIIC and the IX rudder drags and opted to use the IX settings since its not as manuverable as the VII, yet better then the XXI.

That said, remember the XXI was designed for submerged performance first, surface performance second. The orginal stock settings being worse for manuverablity then an IX is probably the most correct. The rudders on these ships is fundamentally different.


This probably is a feature, not a bug. Uboat.net states that the XXI could provide "bursts" of 17 knots. Anyway, personally I like this!

To rephrase myself, going at ahead slow, i dont think the bats should be drained down to anywhere near the 40-50% mark in 6 hours. (10-12 hrs yes, 6 hrs no) I think this is what i was experiencing, and what i was trying to address. My memory could be foggy, i havent messed with it in awhile.


Didn't all the subs have a "creep" speed (or was it a creep engine? D'oh! )? I think Ducimus may have hit bullseye here, not only for the XXI, but for all the subs modelled in the game.

From all accounts i have read, youd think so. In SH3, here is my undertanding of this :

1. Silent running i think is a boolean toggle that increases your chance of detection. your either running normally and making a little noise , or your not. I do not think there's an acutal creep motor modeled. (this is conjecture on my part, and i could be wrong)

2.) The faster you go, the more RPMs you turn, the faster you use electrricity. In the case of the XXI, theres a big difference in bat comsumption from 3/4 kts and 7 knts (several hours difference)

3.) Detection forumula (once posted by Der Teddy Bear) by AI passive sonar has two major variables that stuck out to me. One was how rough the seas are, the bigger the waves the less they can hear, the other, more importanly is how many RPMs your turning. This is why sometimes when your in "ahead slow" in silent running, going to 1 or 2 kts (and thereby turning less RPMS) is even better.



Re the long recharge times,I tried a lot of values, not finding any other better than the ones settled in the fix (close to the ones that you initially suggested)

Yeah its a fine balancing act. Honestly i didnt experiment with it for more then a couple times, so im sure the settings i had, had room for improvement.

[VonHelsching]

Your right about the realism setting. What funny results did you get btw? I have a feeling it may be relating to fuel economy. As for the manoverabilty, when i chose to change it, i made my change based one two things
1. 3 pt turns suck
2. Too much manoverablity would be overpowering. I think i remember looking at the VIIC and the IX rudder drags and opted to use the IX settings since its not as manuverable as the VII, yet better then the XXI.


The funniest was that if the u-boat turned more than X degrees the "gears" switched, and it started moving backwards. In order to
go forward again, I had to press backwards. I used Bergen as my test site, so I didn't do a lot of distance in order to asses fuel data.


To rephrase myself, going at ahead slow, i dont think the bats should be drained down to anywhere near the 40-50% mark in 6 hours. (10-12 hrs yes, 6 hrs no) I think this is what i was experiencing, and what i was trying to address. My memory could be foggy, i havent messed with it in awhile.


I see now what you mean...Maybe they drain because the ahead slow is faster than the actual (I think uboat.net states something like 350 @ 5 kn). This should be addressed in the next fix, along with the snorkel radar.

BTW, If you happen to know, In which SH3 folder should I start searching for the placement of the snorkel radar. Does the FumO-391 have a specific tga or dat file? Thanks!

I hope there are some u-gurus lurking here to contribute to the 3 issues discussed above:

1. Manoverability (turn radius @ speend X or XXI in comparison to other subs)
2. Creep engines / creep speed (actual speed of "ahead slow")
3. TGA / DAT files of XXI radars

[Cdre Gibs]

For a slow ahead and less battery drain try this:

In your NSS_Uboat21.cfg file

[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.15
AheadOneThird=0.33
AheadStandard=0.50
AheadFull=0.80
AheadFlank=1.00

[Mast]

-bump-

Don't want this to go away.

Mast

[VonHelsching]

[
1. Silent running i think is a boolean toggle that increases your chance of detection. your either running normally and making a little noise , or your not. I do not think there's an acutal creep motor modeled. (this is conjecture on my part, and i could be wrong)

2.) The faster you go, the more RPMs you turn, the faster you use electrricity. In the case of the XXI, theres a big difference in bat comsumption from 3/4 kts and 7 knts (several hours difference)


Well, if detection is a function of RPMs, this fix makes the XXI less detectable (by lessening the RPMs of the electrics...). If we push the RPMs even lower for fuel consumption it would be a silent as a fish...

If this is not the case, Cdre Gibbs' setting seem logical & realistic and will test them for a next version of the fix (along with the radar destroyed fix)


So, @ all

1. Did anyone notice difference in detectability with the fix?

2. Where should I start searching for the radar fix? (i.e. where are the equipment related graphics files?). I have already downloaded all SH3 graphics related software, and I'm ready for work (well, maybe next weekend)...Bear also in mind that I'm quite noob, I have extremely little time (I'm a manager in a consultancy), BUT I'm very persistent :hulk: Any help would be appreciated. :up:

[Ducimus]

Well, if detection is a function of RPMs, this fix makes the XXI less detectable (by lessening the RPMs of the electrics...). If we push the RPMs even lower for fuel consumption it would be a silent as a fish...



I havent had my coffee yet, but are you sure your not thinking about E Motor Horse Power? Engines have two variables, HP, and RPM. I dont recall of the RPM being touched at all on the E motors, just the Diesals (and it was increased i beleive). Unless HP has a relation to RPM, as RPM has a relation to speed, then it shoudlnt effect how quiet a sub is at all. Even IF E Motor HP does indirectly effect RPM, you have to put it into perspective. A type 7 has 750 HP, and a type 9 has 1000 HP, so id hardly think 2500 HP would make it too quiet. Personnaly, while i cant prove it I suspect that theres also some variables with the hull that come into play. The XXI has always seemed a bit harder to detect, even before messing with its settings.

A good test to see if your too quiet is the U505 mission. :D

[Cdre Gibs]

Ok, as far as the RWR, RADAR & RADIO Masts plus the snorkel - I WAS gonna redo the models BUT - PACK3d cant open the sensor DAT file.

The idea was, that I was going to permanetly fix the RWR to the TOP of the snorkel (where it belongs) and redo the RADAR ARRY so its correct and RAISED and the same deal for the Radio mast. Now I can repossition the RADAR and the RADIO masts BUT with out having ever seen the RADAR ARRY I have no bloody idea if its even there. So all thats left that can be done, is to raise the RADIO mast but since the rest at this stage cant be done, I see no point.

IF I could have opened the sensor dat file, I would have placed a dummy RWR model ontop of the snorkel. I'd have made it a Dummy model that basicaly would always be there on top of the snorkel, that would go up an down with the snorkel. It buy its self wouldn't actually have been the RWR as that would have then been reduced to 1 Vert and saved as a place holder model to go with the RWR when installed.

So until PACK3D's updated (dont hold ya breath) I cant do much more.

Sorry :(

[Mast]

Ok, as far as the RWR, RADAR & RADIO Masts plus the snorkel - I WAS gonna redo the models BUT - PACK3d cant open the sensor DAT file. :huh:

NOoooo!! :cry:

There's got to be a way to open that file. Others have done it in the past.

Mast

[VonHelsching]

Well, if detection is a function of RPMs, this fix makes the XXI less detectable (by lessening the RPMs of the electrics...). If we push the RPMs even lower for fuel consumption it would be a silent as a fish...



I havent had my coffee yet, but are you sure your not thinking about E Motor Horse Power?

Eeeeek! :88)
Neither had I, before writing my post (coffee). Thus I need some sleep. You are right, of course... :damn:

Definitly, RPMs are not a function of HP :know:

[VonHelsching]

Ok, as far as the RWR, RADAR & RADIO Masts plus the snorkel - I WAS gonna redo the models BUT - PACK3d cant open the sensor DAT file.


So until PACK3D's updated (dont hold ya breath) I cant do much more.

Sorry :(

DAMN! :damn:

Thanks for the answer, Gibbs. I understood about 40% of your post, BUT I had something similar in mind...To replace the image of the radar with a dummy graphics file; Or even better, to put in the schnorchel mast a radar receiver (which was done in real life something like 20 seconds before the end of the war, right? :( )

Is it only Pack3d that one may open .dat files? Any other commercial program? I have a friend that does industrial design and he has A LOT of graphics related software.

[Cdre Gibs]

To be able to get at the models contained within Sensor.Dat - yes we need Pack3D to open it. As you already know Textures are not a problem, but the actual models are.

At this stage I am unaware of any other method or program that will extract the models out of a SH3 Dat file.

PS: Umm this thread would be better off in the Modworkshop forum me thinks.

[pythos]

I discovered that the continuously charging battery glich in SH3 is not in fact a glitch. The actual Type XXI had this very problem. The ships systems, along with the revolutionary drive system ( a partial diesle electric design, where the rather weak diesle engines were supplimented by the electric motors, while cruising on the surface, or snorkeling.) With the electric motors constantly drawing current while one was ALSO charging the batteries. This resulted in a small amount of current being drawn from the batteries before they reached the fully charged state.

I read this in "The u-boat, the evolution and technical history of German Submarines, by Eberhard Rossler" Which is a tome of information for any u-boat enthusiast.

[Ducimus]

I discovered that the continuously charging battery glich in SH3 is not in fact a glitch. The actual Type XXI had this very problem.


This argument has come up before, and one reason, in an earlier thread i put "fix" in quotations, since some might not view it as a real fix. Personnaly i sit on the fence of realism mixed with gameplay. In otherwords, if somet things make for poor gameplay, then maybe they should be adressed? Frankly i find having to manually switch to standard propulsion each and every time annoying as bloody hell. Realistically, shouldnt the cheif engineer be doing this on his own accord when the charge is as complete as its going to get? Realistically, the captain doesnt micromanage every aspect of ships operations, thatss why he has Jr officers and petty officers that he delgates to.

To me this is much akin to other minor things that make for poor gameplay. Another such example is snorkelling with not even half a meter of the snorkel showing above the surface, and getting kicked out of time compression because some sunderland with 0.3cm radar has parked an ashcan behind the wintergarden. Realistic? Perhaps? Annoyng? Most definatly.

[VonHelsching]

IWith the electric motors constantly drawing current while one was ALSO charging the batteries. This resulted in a small amount of current being drawn from the batteries before they reached the fully charged state.


Well, this should explain the 15,6 knots flank surface speed of the XXI...I find it difficult for a modern sub (by the era's standards) to be less hydrodynamic on the surface than a Typ VIIB.

[CCIP]

Well, this should explain the 15,6 knots flank surface speed of the XXI...I find it difficult for a modern sub (by the era's standards) to be less hydrodynamic on the surface than a Typ VIIB.

But it may well be. It was not designed for surface operations, like the previous boats. This is a trend continued in all modern subs; they're just not designed to be a good surface vessels and are thus relatively slow and un-manueverable there.

[Ducimus]

Personnaly i think the 15 kt surface speed has more to do with hull design then any functionality of the diesal/eleictric drive.

An XXI is built for better hydrodynamics while submerged. A type VII performs better surfaeced. It doesnt take a mechanical genious to draw this conclusion, just look at the two hulls, along with rudder/propeller assemblies.

To take it a step further, examine and compare a Type VII to a Type XXI to a modern era submarine. Whats the top surface speed of a modern nuclear submarine anyway? I'll wager its quite low as compared to its submerged speed.

[CCIP]

To take it a step further, examine and compare a Type VII to a Type XXI to a modern era submarine. Whats the top surface speed of a modern nuclear submarine anyway? I'll wager its quite low as compared to its submerged speed.

There's a startling difference, actually. I believe the Akula-class nuclear sub is listed at 33kt max speed (submerged) and only 10 on the surface. :hmm:

[pythos]

The reason the type XXI had weaker surface drives was because the ship was designed to spend a vast majority of its time underwater. The diesles provided the power to the generators while snorkeling which was limited in speed due to occilations of the snorkle and periscope, which made periscope observations impossible above certain speeds, and the near loss of the first type XXI while on snorkle trials and a sympathectic harmonic was set up in the snorkle mast, which caused the mast to litterally snap. Snorkles were no joke when it came to sensitivity. It was only quick acting on the crew of that boat that saved them and it.

With this knowlege the weaker diesles were used.

The Wilhelm bauer's diesles are even smaller and weaker than the wartime version, but these were not connected in any way to the propeller shaft.

[VonHelsching]

With this knowlege the weaker diesles were used.

The Wilhelm bauer's diesles are even smaller and weaker than the wartime version, but these were not connected in any way to the propeller shaft.

Pythos,

Are the speeds allowed in the game while snorkeling with an XXI realistic?

Thanks

[pythos]

My knowlege in that area is limited to what I have read. Problem with a lot of literature in this area is that there is little to no speed info. Now with that said, and with the slim knowledge I have from personal experience I would say no. I would think being limited to 1/3 would be more realistic, especially for the types VII and IX.

The type XXI I would think could go a bit faster, but sympathedic harmonics are really really horrible, and can break the strongest structure, so I would think there would be a limiting factor solely based on this factor.

I would imagine the reason the devsdid not model correctly was once again due to the time constraints, but also lack of knowlege when it comes to snorkels.

[VonHelsching]

- BUMP -

*UPDATE*. See first post.

[VonHelsching]

- BUMP -

*FINAL UPDATE*. See first post.