Axis merchant ships - Historic info needed

[GlobalExplorer]

For my yet unnannounced project I need a list of german and italian merchant ship names during wwii.

Can someone provide me with info / links?

U-boat.net has only lists of ships sunk, just so little axis one's.

[Paajtor]

Hard to find, but I managed to get these:

- German (http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/id81.htm)...click on ONI 2.04, and scroll down.

- Italian (http://www.history-on-cdrom.com/id107.htm)...scroll down.

[GlobalExplorer]

Thanks! This helps me a lot.
Though I could need more ... As there are a lot of names listed which are actually ship classes, not individual ships.

[malcymalc]

Have you tried www.theshiplist.com and searched on German shipping lines (Hapag-Loyd, Deutsche-Levant etc)?

If you are looking for ships seized by Germany during the war a really good site is:

www.warsailors.com

This site also has information on convoys (both from Norway-Britain and Atlantic Convoys).

Regards
Malcolm

[GlobalExplorer]

The project is now announced and available

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=47405&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

but I still need ship names :)

Who can help me with:
- Ship names for "minor" nations (esp. Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey)
(please don't flame me for calling them minor)
- Designation system for allied ASW or Hunterkiller Groups
- Axis convoy designations (mainly Mediterranean)

[malcymalc]

Does this help a bit?

(OA or OAG) Thames outbound convoy via channel.
(OB) Slow Convoys outbound from Liverpool
(OL) Fast convoys outbound from Liverpool

(OG) Convoys transiting from UK to Gibraltar
(HG) Convoys transiting from Gibraltar to the UK
(KX) UK-Gibraltar (Special)
(XK) Gibraltar-UK (Special)

(HX) Convoys transiting from Halifax to the UK
(SC) Convoys transiting from Halifax to the UK
(ON) Fast convoys transiting from the UK to Halifax
(ONS) Slow convoys transiting from the UK to Halifax

(CU) New York-Curacao-UK
(UC) UK-Curacao-New York

(OS) Convoys transiting from Freetown to the UK
(SL) Convoys transiting from the UK to Freetown (Sierra Leone)

(KMF) UK-North Africa-Port Said (Fast)
(KMS) UK-North Africa-Port Said (Slow)

(MKF) Mediterranean-North Africa-UK (Fast)
(MKS) Mediterranean-North Africa-UK (Slow)

(WS) UK-Middle East-India (Military)

(UG) USA-North Africa
(UGF) USA-North Africa (Fast)
(UGS) USA-North Africa (Slow)
(GU) Alexandria-North Africa-USA
(UT) USA-UK (Military)

(EC) Southend to Clyde, Oban or Loch Ewe (Coast Convoy, North About)
(WN) Clyde, Oban or Lock Ewe to Methil (Coastal Convoy, North About)

Other designations for British local or coastal convoys:
CE, CW, EN, FN, FS, WN
(One may almost deduce some of these routes, as in "CE" could be the return route for EC etc. These are not confirmed except that they are, in fact, British coastal routes.)

[malcymalc]

Or try this webpage:

http://www.shipwreckregistry.com//index4.htm


Regards
Malcolm

[GlobalExplorer]

Thanks, malcymalc. Not what I need most, but still very helpful!

Anyone who can at least point me to some info about small navies in wwII?

[malcymalc]

Global
What exactly are you looking for?

I was thinking about your merchant ships query and there is a book out there that could help - but you would need access to a specialist library (like the National Maritime Museum in the UK), or search online booksellers who may have it.

The "Merchant Ships" series of books, compiled, drawn and edited by E C Talbot-Booth (London: Sampson Low, Marston and Co. Ltd). Issues for 1936, 1940, 1942 and 1949 are in the National Maritime Museum and other specialist libraries.

These are essentially a listing of every merchant ship by country with details of tonnage, owner etc.

[Polak2]

Here is the good link, but for Japanese small fleet. I know that it may rather be more for SH4 than SH3, but why not have it. Please disregard the font and just press on the name of the ship:
http://ww6.enjoy.ne.jp/~iwashige/modellist.htm

[GlobalExplorer]

Global
What exactly are you looking for?

I need genuine sounding merchant ship names for some nations, mainly Germany, Italy, Russia, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey.

I also need the designation system for Allied ASW Groups.

The "Merchant Ships" series of books, compiled, drawn and edited by E C Talbot-Booth (London: Sampson Low, Marston and Co. Ltd). Issues for 1936, 1940, 1942 and 1949 are in the National Maritime Museum and other specialist libraries.
These are essentially a listing of every merchant ship by country with details of tonnage, owner etc.

Wish I had the time to get into professional research. I hoped there are some lists floating around the net.

[malcymalc]

Ok, next question.

How many of each do you need? For instance Uboat.net has about 40 named ships (as opposed to "DB26" or "BTSC-411") for Russia.

And how accurate do you need to be? Would you be happy with Italian merchant ship names from the 1890s for instance, or would they have to be ships in existence during WWII?

For instance SHIIICmdr assigns ship names to your combat record (so instead of just "C2" you sank "SS Leif Erickson") which is nice. I think the names have been taken from real ships sunk during WWII and extracted from Uboat.net - but unfortunately the names are not tied to nationality or class of ship (which I admit bugs me slightly - I would like to see Norwegian ship names when I sink a Norwegian ship for instance).

I'm happy to do a little surfing on your behalf if you can give me some paramaters as to what you want.

Regards
Malcolm

[GlobalExplorer]

Hi malcymalc,

I have already used up what is available under sunk ships at UBoat.net :)
In fact I don't need too many ship names. They don't have to be historically, but it is of course much preferred. What I do like is national variety, and I like the names to sound typical for the respective nation.

I would be glad if you could look somewhat. 10-50 ship names per nation would be already very much.

Mind that I have some material for most nations, i.e.

Britain
USA
France
Spain/Argentina
Portugal/Brasil
Sweden
Norway
Greece
Netherlands
Russia (some)

The nations complete void are:

Romania
Bulgaria
Yugoslavia
Turkey
Finland
Poland

For Germany and Italy I use merchant names that sound good, but I would like to use historic ones too.

What I would really like to see is Axis convoy names, especially the ones in the Mediterranean and North Sea.

I also would like to read something about hunter killer designations. All I know is that they existed, and that there were two types for US and Britain.

And how accurate do you need to be? Would you be happy with Italian merchant ship names from the 1890s for instance, or would they have to be ships in existence during WWII?
Would be fine.

Thanks for your help!

GlobalExplorer

[Myszkin]

The nations complete void are:
Poland


I can help, Global.

[Alyebard]

Hi malcymalc,


In fact I don't need too many ship names. They don't have to be historically, but it is of course much preferred. What I do like is national variety, and I like the names to sound typical for the respective nation.

I would be glad if you could look somewhat. 10-50 ship names per nation would be already very much.

Mind that I have some material for most nations, i.e.



Spain




from this link
http://web.archive.org/web/20040105201359/http://www.trasmediterranea.net/pasado.htm

some names:

J.J. Sister
Ciudad de Barcelona
Ciudad de Burgos
Ciudad de Valladolid
Villa de Madrid
Isla de Formentera

[malcymalc]

Ok try this link for ships seized by the US Government in June 1941:

http://www.usmm.org/foreign.html

Cheers,
Malcolm

[GlobalExplorer]

Hi Malcolm,
Excellent! The list of italian ships is quite substantial. I will probably include them in the next release.
GlobalExplorer

[GlobalExplorer]

@Myszkin: There aren't that many polish units in the campaign layer, but I would like to include them anyway. Do you have info about the polish fleet 1939, so that there could be some live in the Baltic during 1939? Any help welcome.

@Alyebard: Muchas gracias. Y todo es en español! Creo que voy a leer un poco ..

[Myszkin]

In 1939 polish merchant fleet consisted 36 ships of total tonnage 117 000 BRT:

Liners:

new liners (1-4 years old):
m/s "Pilsudski"
m/s "Batory"
m/s "Chrobry"
m/s "Sobieski"

old liners:

s/s "Pulaski"
s/s "Kosciuszko"

Merchant:

"Robur" series:

- Robur III (also known as "Kmicic")
- Robur IV (aka "Czestochowa")
- Robur V (aka "Kordecki")
- Robur VI (aka "Zbaraz")
- Robur VIII (aka "Zagloba")

others:

s/s "Warszawa", "Wisla", "Rozewie", "Oksywie", "Lida", "Lwow", "Lublin", "Lech" ...will be continued ;)

PS: ships commisioned during the war: "Paderewski", "Tobruk", Narwik"

greetings,
Myszkin

[GlobalExplorer]

@Myszkin: Thats already a very good list, and the names are distinctively polish. Do you intend to add more names? I ask because it's easier for me to insert them only once, and not check which ones I have and which ones I haven't.

To all the others that helped me: thanks a lot!

Through this thread I got:

-Italian names
-some Finish names
-some Polish names
-Turkish names

I still need:
-Romanian
-Bulgarian
-Yugoslavian
-Russian (more, includes Ukrainian and Georgian)
-Finish (more)
-German (more)
-ASW Groups
-Axis convoys

[Myszkin]

@Myszkin:Do you intend to add more names?

Yes, I do! Coming soon!

PS: All names are authentic of course.

[GlobalExplorer]

@Myszkin:Do you intend to add more names?

Yes, I do! Coming soon!

PS: All names are authentic of course.

That's even better then!

GE

[Myszkin]

Polish names - update:

"Lewant", "Puck", "Hel", "Opole" (Liberty ship), "Wilno", "Narew", "Kroman", "Chorzow"

and almost that's all at this moment.

[Joe S]

I have a copy of the US navy manual on the identification of merchant ships, I probably cant get to it today but could send you a list of the names of ships included in that book. I think it would be too long to post, can I send it via regualar mail? If so, send you mail address, Joe S

[GlobalExplorer]

I have included the new ship names for Finland, Italy Poland, Turkey, Yugoslavia in the current version of Sh3Gen. Thanks guys!

I have a question concerning Quadrants. Today I had to invent two new quadrants, because in Sh3 they don't exist. To cover Black Sea and East Mediterranean I use quadrants "CL" and "CP". Do you think this is acceptable?

GE

[malcymalc]

Global,
You were asking about "hunter killer" groups last week. That is more of an American term. The British had Support Groups:

March 1943
1st SG - 1 sloop, 5 frigates
2nd SG - 7 sloops
3rd SG - 5 destroyers
4th SG - 5 detroyers
5th SG - 1 escort-carrier, 2 destroyers
6th SG - 1 Bogue, 2 destroyers (this was an American group, the others were all British).

By July 1943 there were 12 such groups in the Atlantic (the above plus 7th, 21st, 37th, 38th, 39th and 40th).

As you are aware these groups took the war to the Uboots, and combined with new technology (and improved use of the technology) with the qualitative decline of Uboot personnel turned the tide.

Regards,
Malcolm