The Silent Hunter IV (Pacific Campaign) WISH-LIST

[DAB]

OK. I suspect that i'm not stepping on anyones toes if I create this thread. If it is...I'm sure Drebbel or one of the other moderators can deal with this.

So here we are, the Wishlist thread. The idea I have is that ideas are already bounding about in about 3 maybe four different threads...it might be an idea to try and get a single thread which has less disscussion in it then actually ideas.

Template



Insert Wish Here
explain why you wish to see this feature introduced into SHIV


If your wish contradicts a wish given above, explain why you disagree with that idea here

[DAB]

Inclusion as playable units, the Americans, Dutch and British
All of these countries had roles in the Pacific Campaign, the Dutch especially were a considerable factor in that war. Also the factions offer very different styles of warfare. British Submarines suffered in terms of range, so they tended to operate in the shallow and difficult waters north of Australlia. Dutch Submarines had major supply problems given that their country was occupied. Therefore dutch submariners had to be very careful in how they used their torpedos. Both factions would allow the game to move beyond a simple tonnage war.

The reasons for playing the Americans are obvious. I'm not convinced about the Japanese. Their campaign was largely ineffective and it would be a boaring war. Also, I think I might have a moral issue with launching Kytons.

Change in the Crew Management system from Silent Hunter III
The idea of managing my crew is actually something I quite like in principle. I work at sea, and have to do this in real life - so it adds a bit of depth to the game. However, i'm not a fan of the way it was implemented in Silent Hunter III. I'd prefer to see a feature that allows you to set watches and allocate crew members to those watches. The game could then automatically change the watch when the correct times arrive.

Slightly more scope for modding by the community
Given what this community has been able to do for SHIII - I'd like to see a bit more scope avalable for SHIV. My passion is actually for the First World War. If someone could create a mod that would allow me to import these sort of submarines into the game I'd be very happy. Such features exist on flight sims (Microsoft Combat Flight Sims are the best example) so I'd imagine they are commercially viable.

Of course that last one isn't really a deal breaker

[Drebbel]

Stepping on toes ??? What are we ? Pussysor sailors ??

:arrgh!:

[Sniper_1]

It was only a matter of time before this happened, so Dev's and Moderators take note!!! (joking :-j )

Overall i was happy with SH3, it was a HUGE improvement over SH2. SH4 only needs in my opinion a few additional extra's to turn it into a real winner.

1. Other subs with AI, even though the US only used 'wolfpacks' in the last year or so fo the war, and even then the 'wolfpacks' were small, i'd like to be able to have other US subs attacking etc.

2. Improved resolution. By the time this baby is released, multi-core processors will be in mainstream PC's and graphic's cards will have advanced even further. Thats not to say that SH4 becomes a monster only able to run on the ultimate gaming machines, but that it 'moves with the times'.

3. Improved crew management. Rather than the method used in SH3, have a system of 'watch bills' which you assign crew members too. Also you can assign crew to their various combat/damage control stations aswell. By this i mean that CPO Kowolski stands bridge watch, and will man the diving planes of the boat when its submerged. Seaman 1st class O'Donahugh also stands bridge watch, but when the boat submerges he is assigned to a damage control party etc,etc,etc... You can still select individual crewmembers and 'drag and drop' them, just that this system removes much of the micro-management needed in SH3.

4. More compartments in the submarine. I'd like to be able to visit all the compartments in the sub, seeing what goes on. The crew in the compartments should be appropiate to what is going on i.e. at surface battle stations there will not be a load of sailors asleep in their bunks etc. This will tie in with the 'watch bill' sugestion made above, so if one of your officers is off duty, you will find him either in the officers mess or asleep in his bunk.

With these addditions i'd be happy with SH4. As a real treat, i'd like to see some sort of 'strategic' layer added to SH4, so that if you wanted you could play Admiral Lockwood and direct the overall submarine war (like what subwolves are attempting with SH3).

Sniper_1

[CaptJodan]

#2 and 4 on Snipers list are two of my top faves, as said in other threads. Overall, I think SH3 got a lot right. But I'd really like to go through different compartments.

It would be great to be able to command Dutch and British subs. I just think it might be an unrealistic goal. Keep in mind that you're talking not only exterior models, but interiors as well, and depending on the level of detail inside the interior, that could be more work than they're willing to put into it. (all the classes for American subs PLUS British, Dutch, and Japanese.)

I agree in principle to a reorganization of the crew management, I'm just not sure the devs will be able to deliver on a system that everyone would like. I tend to like micro-management to an extent, and thus like the option to put my men where I want them. But you're right also that it gets annoying to do every one by hand when there's an emergency situation in progress.

I would think if this is an expansion and not a stand alone game, that the engine might have constraints that they won't work around. (A great example of this is IL-2/FB/PF. Changes in air density and such are only modelled up to 10,000 meters, after which you can fly as high as you want if you can get up that high in the first place. Also, dive speeds aren't modelled correctly, and thus negates to some extent the tactics used by heavier planes against lighter, more manueverable ones) Hopefully that won't prove to be too big of a problem for the devs.

[SubSerpent]

I WANT WOLFPACKS and MILKCOWS.....LOL!!! :rotfl:

[rabu]

A few things I would like to see, or see improved, in order of preference:

Better game save - save at sea, etc.

Milk Cows and simulation of the reop, refuel/reprovision at sea

Damage model for subs (crushing, etc.)
More under water detail (fish, rocks, coral, etc.)
Better looking sub nets and damage (they look like perforation board)
Ability to move through/explore the sub
More/better shore details (vegetation, buildings, etc.)
Improved map detail on close inspection

Better crew management :damn:
Wolf Packs (maybe with communication and control of them, if possible.)

[Drebbel]

Adding Wolfpacks will be the worst thing the dev-team can do. The day they announce that they will loose all respect and credibilty of the major part of the SubSimming communty. I sure hope they will no make that nistake ! ;)

Of course I have a zillion wishes myself. The most important ones are listed below.

GOOD beta testing
And get some wellknown respected and smart members from the subsimming community in the beta team. Because SHIII had, and still has, too many "easy to fix" imperfections

Don't make me feel alone
Although SHIII did try it, it did imho not succedd in getting rid of the feeling "I am alone". We need more radio traffic, traffic in ports, welcome messages, escort to/from base, friendly scout planes, music/news stations on radio etcetera.

Two level navigation
Havemore complicated navigation available for the hard core fans, but keep the simple SHIII navigation available as well. This could include, shooting star/sun, sextant, dead reckoning, more realistic maps, depth info on maps,....

Improve the TDC notepad thingy
Think the TDC notepad thingy in SHIII was a great improvement. First decent method for TDC ever in a subsim. Please try to make it more perfect. And please also make the "I always know the exact distance to the enemy ship" watch officer an option in the realism settings menu.

More variotion in missions
Why not include missions like: Photo recon, acting as nav beacon, landing or picking up shore parties, part of forming a picket line, evacuate/transport navy hot shots.

Enemy Artificial Intelligence
Good enemy AI. We all know the AI in SHIII is ok, but has many failures. Especially TeddyBear has researched thisvery good. One obvious example is how easy it is to enter an enemy port. But TeddyBear has found much more subtile, but not less important, omissions in the AI.

Foreign Sub Units
No really needed, but would sure be great: Why not include playable Britisch and Dutch submarine units in the sim. They played a big role in the war against Japan.

Also
Make sure you make clear to people not all ideas and wishes expressed by the dev-team will make it to the final sim. There too are many people who will accuse the dev-team for being *&^%&() if for some reason a feature that was mentioned by the team does not make it to the final release.

[scrapser]

I think everyone is assuming SH4 will have all the features of SH3; so, my first wish would be that SH4 should be an expansion and improvement of those features and hopefully be backward compatible (i.e, a "patch") for SH3.

1. The campaign should have more structure instead of simply sending you off to some patrol grid at random until the war ends. The Pacific theater included more than just sinking merchant ships and in the beginning, the Japanese Imperial Navy was a formidable force projecting power all over the Pacific ocean. This would have to be modeled in the campaign instead of simple merchant convoys. There could be patrols that focus on strategic locations that model the actual events that took place in the Pacific theater. The patrols would be "scripted" into the campaign only in that they mirror the strategy that was actually implemented. The patrol itself would be open ended (not scripted).

2. Inclusion of friendly forces (and AI) in the campaign out at sea. You might be tasked to run a sweep in advance of a surface deployment or sent off to intercept a task force spotted by sea or air by ships unable to engage the force directly (or by intel from decoded Japanese transmissions). Secondary missions could be sent while on patrol such as the familiar harbor recon or rescue downed pilots missions enjoyed in the original SH.

3. Be able to move around on the deck of the sub when surfaced. Many are asking for more cabin freedom so I thought this might be interesting as well. It's not a big deal but if it's easy to do, why not?

4. Change the awards and promotions from renown based to a combination of tonnage and ship types sunk. I think sinking a capital ship would entail more risk to the submarine and therefore a higher reward would be given. Perhaps model some sort of efficiency factor as well (amount of ordinance unused upon return to base?).

scrapser

[irish1958]

A few suggestons.
1) Add an option to import SH3 into the game, so to have a choice of theaters of war. This might increase the sale of SH3 to take advaantage of this option.

2) Ability to command a destroyer against AI subs, on both sides.

3) Ability to play either side.

4) Addition of a feature like jscones' Commander, and use it to set crew watches before starting on patrols and have random illness, accidents, and deaths while on patrol so that replacement of various watch members is needed. Also have automatic watch rotation at all time compressions.

5) FIX THE DAMN SENSORS, BOTH RADAR AND SONAR

6) Rework the fatigue idea. Fatigue and combat fatigue really happen and need to be moddled into game. Perhaps some combination of Beery's combat fatigue and some morale factors should be added. Combat stress really occurs, but under debth charge attack a crew member can't just go take a nap. He must stay on duty, but will have reduced value.

I think this is a valuable thread. Someone should make sure the new development team has it.

irish1958

[HMCS]

My wishlist? Rudeltaktik, reworked fatigue and career options (as per SH3 Commander), better AI.

For SH 4- chuck the whole US subsim concept and release a subsim for Japanese subs. More challenging, and they had the best torpedoes. The Japanese had the most diverse sub fleet during the war - the fastest, and the easiest to sink. That, and they had to fight both the RN and the USN - two of the three most capable ASW forces in WW II (the other was the RCN).

Imagine trying to hold off the US invasion fleet - talk about a target-rich environment!

Compare that to US subs in the later stages of WW2 - reduced to torpedoing fishing boats....

[gdogghenrikson]

Make it work with SH3, (like SH2 and distroyer command)

[The Avon Lady]

Simple.

I want to be able to control both topside and sub vessels. All vessels playable. If you can do that, there should be no reason to limit it to the Pacific only and you could play as either an Allied or Axis commander, German or Japanese or American or British or Russian, anyone.

Creating new ship/sub mods via a reasonable SDK released to the public.

A more serious mission/campaign editor and much more complex scripting abilities. Coming from the OFP community, SH3 is totally lacking in this area.

And that's all. :smug:

[davidaspy]

More realistic inside the boat.

I want to see people moving around doing their job and much more realistic crew movements. I want to be able to go into every compartment and fiddle with the dials. I want realistic damage. If the command room is flooding i want to see water sloshing around my feet as my crew desperatly try to patch up the leak. That would be so cool. :)

[Type941]

I want to play as Japan and US, not just US (I assume they'll do US only to sell it well in the US, since the navy war in US is very much associated with PH and Pacific)...

---------------------------------

I want more ship unit types.
The boat should have better physics, better damages. I'd like the water to be redone, so it's transparent a bit from the top in shallow water, etc...

----------------------------------

SDK, please!!! Some light version if the curent one is used for other projects as well...

----------------------------------

I DON'T want to see the same mistakes and glitches as in Sh3. To see how many there are in general, please take a look at the Subsim community mods section....

===================

[The Avon Lady]

One last thing.

I'd love to have player-controllable planes, simple flightsim types, that don't require you to be a brilliant FS pilot to fly them.

But I think I'm pushing things.

[Sniper_1]

ummhhh...maybe just a little bit there Avon lady. :o :o

[Zachstar]

I have an idea for beta testing

Have quick downloadable beta copys that last for a few hours to a day. It can be updated with an automatic updater that will trigger a new few hours to a day session.

Get people like berry and people on here to test it over and over and over.

The incentive is not only to play it first but also the top ten testers get a free copy of SH4!

Thatll get you serious testing indeed!!

[codeseven]

If SH4 is to be released in 3Q 2007, PLEASE make it a 3Q 2007 sim that is geared to at least the best graphics cards available now in 2005 if not to at least what tyhe 'average' card should be capable of by late 2007. Even if it means developing a new engine (ie BOB after IL2) for SH4 rather than what will then be (in 2007) an already outdated 3y/o SH3 engine. A 'new' sim should be advanced enough to not only utiize the currently best technology, but also be able to stay current for at least the following years technology and not be 'outdated' apon release.

[Harry Buttle]

I'd like an ability to select to run on electric motors when surfaced (and have it make a difference) and an ability to choose to run with the decks awash.

[Joe S]

Here are my preliminary thought for SH4:

1)Stick with US pacific theater
2)Fix/improve the tdc notepad. allow data entry without clicking on the ID book, it takes way too long to find the right page in the book even if you can ID the target visually.
3) Bring back the ability to make map notes as in SHII.
4)Get rid of, or create an opt out for crew management.
5)more and better sound effects, more verbal replies and messages from crew.
6) concentrate on gameplay and not gimmicks such as crew management. The main reason is if they dont work right, it backfires. Having to force the watch officer to his station constantly is a good example. Getting a message that there arent enough crew members in the electric or diesel motor compartments should never happen. I want to be the captain, I shoujld not be forced to do everything that others in the crew should be taking care of.
7) Have a battle stations command with appropiate sounds and alarm.

More later, Thanks!

Joe S

[gdogghenrikson]

I also wish SH4 wasnt coming out so soon, I mean come on every one SH3 isnt even a year old yet. It is also gunna kill all the sh3 modders because they are gunna jump the SH4 bandwagon and totally forget sh3 :down: :nope:

[jimmie]

a Mac port...LOL

[s2c172]

1) Photo Recon

2)Air Sea Rescue mission

3)Raiding party drop off and pick up

4)Have all subs availible (Ala SH1)

5) and of course DYNAMIC Campagin!

[Sniper_1]

I was kinda hoping that we did not nead to mention a 'dynamic campaign' as it would be a given, based on what happened with SH3 during its development. But yes, take it as read......SH4 must have a dynamic campaign.

Sniper_1

[Sniper_1]

I was kinda hoping that we did not nead to mention a 'dynamic campaign' as it would be a given, based on what happened with SH3 during its development. But yes, take it as read......SH4 must have a dynamic campaign.

Sniper_1

[Harry Buttle]

I'd have to say "me too" re the dynamic campaign, WW2 Pac Subs with dynamic campaign, I'm already sold - without it, don't waste your time writing it.

I'd also like to see an ability to tell the AA (Flak) gunners to fire at ships.

An ability to assign crewmen to a specific battle station and to a specific routine shift station (where they would go unless you are at battle stations).

I'd also like to be able to make and assign multiple damage control parties to different tasks.

Hotkeys for things like Radar on/off.

Lookouts not just give a bearing, but point too (nice to have but not neccessary).

An ability to set a schedule in accelerated time - you might have 15 mins in 4 hours (for example) spent dived to check sonar.

[Sheppard]

Wolfpacks are a must; US Submarines DID practice wolfpacks; albeit in a much looser uncoordinated fashion than the Germans did; a bunch of US fleet boats would meet up, and communicate by radio or by using their radars as morse code (If you pointed a SJ radar at another SJ radar, it would cause flickering or effects on the receiving radar's screen), and then attack the convoy.

The difference between the US practice and the German practice, was that the Germans micromanaged the wolfpacks from shore; US wolfpacks were very loose affairs, controlled by the commanders on scene, who decided to attack a convoy simultaneously; something like below:

SS-314: "Hey Bob, we'll attack that convoy from the west, you do the east side."

SS-411: "Got you. Good hunting."

SS-314: "Roger."

[Cdre Gibs]

The only thing I wish for - is that its not another "US" based game.
I for 1 am getting sick ta death of just about every damn game that comes out you have to play as a bloody yank !

If we as the player can CHOOSE what side we want to play (or indeed for online to be able to choose between subs and surface elements), then good, if not, I see no point to SH4.

[Sheppard]

The only thing I wish for - is that its not another "US" based game.

Uh, we've had two straight Silent Hunters dealing with the battle of the Atlantic; I think it's long past time we went back to fleet boats in the pacific sinking japanese shipping or gunning down sampans.

[Cdre Gibs]

Think outside the box (my comment refers to beyond just sub games silly).

Thats why I said "choose sides" !

[Harry Buttle]

The only thing I wish for - is that its not another "US" based game.
I for 1 am getting sick ta death of just about every damn game that comes out you have to play as a bloody yank !


Given that the US WW2 Pac Sub campaign was THE definitive submarine campaign (so far) and that the last 2 WW2 sub games have been about U-Boats, it doesn't seem unreasonable to have one about the US boats now, its also pretty marketable to a massive (US) market.

To go back on topic, I also wouldn't mind seeing ahistorical wolfpacks to make multiplayer co-op easier to implement in a campaign - what I mean is that you could form a pack at Hawaii (for example) and then one commander navigates the pack until it encounters the enemy, the pack reforming after the encounter is resolved.

This would allow you to run multiplayer co-op campaigns from the start of the war - ahistorical, yes - fun, I think so.

[Cdre Gibs]

It never ceases to amaze me how many ppl never read ALL of some1's post. They see a few lines that get them upset or disagree with and then go off.

I ask you, with todays PC's (and keep in mind that by the time this game comes out more advances in PC tech WILL have taken place), is there any need to limit a game to 2 sides only that a player can use or just 1 side (in the case of SH3/4) ?

Or is there any need to limit a player to the type of Units a player can use in that given side ?

The answer is of course NO. So why should we accept such a limiting factor ?

Plus another thing, for a game to do well these days, Online Multiplay is something that you dont just give a passing thought too. This also will need to be rethought because atm its rather a shoddy affair.

[Harry Buttle]

It never ceases to amaze me how many ppl never read ALL of some1's post. They see a few lines that get them upset or disagree with and then go off.

I ask you, with todays PC's (and keep in mind that by the time this game comes out more advances in PC tech WILL have taken place), is there any need to limit a game to 2 sides only that a player can use or just 1 side (in the case of SH3/4) ?

Or is there any need to limit a player to the type of Units a player can use in that given side ?

The answer is of course NO. So why should we accept such a limiting factor ?

Plus another thing, for a game to do well these days, Online Multiplay is something that you dont just give a passing thought too. This also will need to be rethought because atm its rather a shoddy affair.

What amazes me is people who post nonsense and are then surprised that people disagree with it.

Why limit to only one side for a game? because it is half the work of doing both sides, if they do both sides, let them sell it as 2 games.

why should we accept that? because it would make sub sims more financially viable.

[CptGrayWolf]

Dynamic Radio Communications!
Make me feel like there's a real war going on out there.

[gdogghenrikson]

The only thing I wish for - is that its not another "US" based game.
I for 1 am getting sick ta death of just about every damn game that comes out you have to play as a bloody yank !

If we as the player can CHOOSE what side we want to play (or indeed for online to be able to choose between subs and surface elements), then good, if not, I see no point to SH4.

I agree with you 100%

[gdogghenrikson]

I also wish this game is WW1 instead of WW2, WW2 games are a dime a dozen

[Type941]

I want a SIMULATION that tells me how the Japanese and US boats were in the war, and compare them one on one - not a propoganda in a box, Pearl Harbour the movie style... :roll:

[CptGrayWolf]

I really don't see the problem with playing a 'yank' as you say. Wasn't the last dynamic submarine simulation featuring US in the pacific, SH1 in DOS back in 1997?
So of course there is a point to SH4.
Go devs! Put me in a Gato/Balao anytime! :up:

[Sniper_1]

While some of us might agree that PC and Console games do have an overwhelming bias towards the US (dammed yankee imperialist cultural hegemony :88) :88) .... :P ), the fact reamins that most of the games are either developed by US companies or for the US market (still regarded as the market to sell into). The situation is somewhat similar to that of Hollywood, it makes films overwhelmingly about US topics/subjects and yet sells them allover the world.

That said, the US submarine campaign against the IJN and the Jap merchant fleet is still the only sucessful submarine campaign in history (in that it emasculated the jap war economy and materially contributed to the victory of the US). For this reason alone i'd buy SH4, plus the fleet boats were magnificent subs, bristling with the allies latest electronic gear by the end of the war.

Sniper_1

[Sniper_1]

While some of us might agree that PC and Console games do have an overwhelming bias towards the US (dammed yankee imperialist cultural hegemony :88) :88) .... :P ), the fact reamins that most of the games are either developed by US companies or for the US market (still regarded as the market to sell into). The situation is somewhat similar to that of Hollywood, it makes films overwhelmingly about US topics/subjects and yet sells them allover the world.

That said, the US submarine campaign against the IJN and the Jap merchant fleet is still the only sucessful submarine campaign in history (in that it emasculated the jap war economy and materially contributed to the victory of the US). For this reason alone i'd buy SH4, plus the fleet boats were magnificent subs, bristling with the allies latest electronic gear by the end of the war.

Sniper_1

[CB..]

being able to select your choice of side would be a major boon--

American British and especailly japanese and german aswell--
i don't think any game has given the player the opportunity to play as a japanese sub commander as yet --? it cannot be any more contraversial than playing as a german u-boat commander surely --i'd be interested to see what feelings this aroused whilst playing--
and of course it would be great to be able to play as a brit commander--(being a brit) and i think with some thought the opportunity for some sort of on-line massively multiplayer campaign would be possible if allied and axis commanders were written in---even without human DD's some sort of comparitive tonnage results could be used to calculate victory or defeat--
perhaps using a moving "front line" marked on the map that moved according to each sides results---basic and a bit cheesy but with massive multiplayer it would be reasonably satisfying

[gdogghenrikson]

i don't think any game has given the player the opportunity to play as a japanese sub commander as yet --? it cannot be any more contraversial than playing as a german u-boat commander surely --i'd be interested to see what feelings this aroused whilst playing--

Contraversial??

[CB..]

i don't think any game has given the player the opportunity to play as a japanese sub commander as yet --? it cannot be any more contraversial than playing as a german u-boat commander surely --i'd be interested to see what feelings this aroused whilst playing--

Contraversial??

he he!! that was quick---discuss lol

[gdogghenrikson]

i don't think any game has given the player the opportunity to play as a japanese sub commander as yet --? it cannot be any more contraversial than playing as a german u-boat commander surely --i'd be interested to see what feelings this aroused whilst playing--

Contraversial??

he he!! that was quick---discuss lol

Define contraversial

[CB..]

Define contraversial

morally complicated/uncomfortable-- :hmm: perhaps--thought provoking emotionally interesting--what does it feel like to be fighting against the Allies believing your self to be correct in doing so etc etc---morally complicated from the players and historical point of view---etc

[gdogghenrikson]

Define contraversial

morally complicated/uncomfortable-- :hmm: perhaps--thought provoking emotionally interesting--what does it feel like to be fighting against the Allies believing your self to be correct in doing so etc etc---morally complicated from the players and historical point of view---etc

sounds like something my friend would say. when he first saw me play SH3 he told me it is odd to make a war game where you play as the "bad guys". But my queston is what defines a "bad guy". reminds me of the scene in Saving Private Ryan when the allies/americans have a few nazi solders cornered and they are trying to surrender and one of the allied solders blows his head off. wouldnt that make the allied solder a "bad Guy"

people say things are contraversial way to often. before you know it Super Mario Bros will be contraversial. think about it, Mario eats shrooms right, he also jumps on peoples heads and throws fire at people...so that could make mario a "bad guy", right

[CB..]

sounds like something my friend would say. when he first saw me play SH3 he told me it is odd to make a war game where you play as the "bad guys". But my queston is what defines a "bad guy". reminds me of the scene in Saving Private Ryan when the allies/americans have a few nazi solders cornered and they are trying to surrender and one of the allied solders blows his head off. wouldnt that make the allied solder a "bad Guy"

people say things are contraversial way to often. before you know it Super Mario Bros will be contraversial. think about it, Mario eats shrooms right, he also jumps on peoples heads and throws fire at people...so that could make mario a "bad guy", right

as i was saying-- morally complicated :lol: but lets not go off on some daft tangent based on the interpretation of events depicted in a movie and or a game--that would be idiotic

[gdogghenrikson]

sounds like something my friend would say. when he first saw me play SH3 he told me it is odd to make a war game where you play as the "bad guys". But my queston is what defines a "bad guy". reminds me of the scene in Saving Private Ryan when the allies/americans have a few nazi solders cornered and they are trying to surrender and one of the allied solders blows his head off. wouldnt that make the allied solder a "bad Guy"

people say things are contraversial way to often. before you know it Super Mario Bros will be contraversial. think about it, Mario eats shrooms right, he also jumps on peoples heads and throws fire at people...so that could make mario a "bad guy", right

as i was saying-- morally complicated :lol: but lets not go off on some daft tangent based on the interpretation of events depicted in a movie and or a game--that would be idiotic

what is morally wrong with playing games that deal with nazis
If you dont like it, DONT BUY IT!!

[CB..]

i did say it was controversial remember --you really didn't have to prove the point for me you know by starting an argument :nope: :huh: :rotfl:

[DS]

Core elements (must have)

PACIFIC CAMPAIGN!!! - After two tours in the Atlantic, it's more than time for Silent Hunter to return home to the Pacific and do it up right. The success of the Pacific Aces Mod speaks to the need.

Dynamic campaign
Quick encounter generator
Detailed mission editor
Interactive crew (can't go back to empty boats now after SH3)
Accurate boat handling physics and damage modelling
Detailed and realistic damage control
Immersive campaign environment (radio messages, tonnage boards, drinks and conversation at the Royal Hawaiian :), etc)
Great graphics, including weather and sea effects
Choices in boat upgrades
Crew certifications and commendations

Product Enhnacements

More compartments to be visited
Crew watch assignments for crew management
Options for different wartime paint schemes (as an optional in port upgrade)
Nets and mines
Pacific specific missions (aircrew rescue, photo recon, coast watcher insertion/extraction, etc.)
Fleet boat wolf pack operations
More flooding and damage, less instant catastrophic kills for subs
Fuel leaks leaving visible surface trails
Better system for time compression during long transits (especially in the huge Pacific...

I can not express how pleased I am the there will be an SHIV, and that it will be in the PACIFIC!!!

Cheers!

[StevenLohr]

1) Playable DDs
2) Being able to order courses to the nearest degree
3) Improved crew management routine

[Saukko]

Lifeboats! :rock:
Well, some people, including me, missed them in SH3 so here is our chance. Also, ability to abandon boat and then waiting to picked up by friendly forces or enemy. Not just a simply death screen.

I definitely want to play both sides.

[Sheppard]

Dynamic Radio Communications!
Make me feel like there's a real war going on out there.

Definitely, SH1 had this; you could randomly get radio transmissions from COMSUBPAC telling you to go to such and such area to take photographs, be a plane guard, or look for ships.

[Wahooka]

Hello all.

What i would like to see is multiple monitor and computer support. How nice would it be to play SH3 with different sonar-screens or computers in a local network.

Those flightsimming guys have a software module created by Peter Dowson wich makes it possible to send gamedata to other computers in a LAN.

What about real weather, ship movements or current information provided by the internet.

Come on guys...wake up!!!!!

[Venatore]

A better death scene if your sub is destoryed :rock:

[Sturm]

Make it work with SH3, (like SH2 and distroyer command)

My vote for this. I still want to play as a German in Atlantic and also have the new goodies of SHIV. :up:

[glenno]

I can remember somewhere where ubi said in a future silent hunter there would be dynamic weather .
Lots more ships .
Better looking graphics.
Did i mention more ships .
Hundreds more new ports.
Did i mention more ships.
SDK pack for adding more ships.
Did i mention more ships.

[Zachstar]

Make it work with SH3, (like SH2 and distroyer command)

My vote for this. I still want to play as a German in Atlantic and also have the new goodies of SHIV. :up:

I totally agree

What they can do is have a tool to get the files needed off your SH3 CD then auto configure SH4 to be have all campaigns and scns.

[Nikita]

I would like a more complex sim: a mix between Great Naval Battles II, Task Force 1942 and SH III in the Pacific. A simulator with a strategic component.
And the possibility to command subs and ships.

[Sub Libertate Quietem]

I want to be able to go into the engine room and see and hear those monster diesels thumping.

Rescuing downed pilots was a common task for submarines. Lets do some of that.

[SubMonkey]

1.) Make it backwards compatible with SH3
2.) Model ALL interior compartments including the German Subs if backwards compatible with SH3.
3.) Ability to switch back between periscope and conning tower.
4.) Added crew member manning Torpedo Computer in Conning tower (Historical)
5.) Increase visual range in game. (too short in SH3...)
6.) Add wolf-packs.
7.) Keep up the great work!
8.) get GOOD beta-testers
9.) Don't leave bugs in the game like you did with Sh3.
10.) Fix Starforge.

[thasaint]

More than 1 country to play as.
Give us the option to command other country's subs, don't even have to do both sides of the war IMO, just the u.s. and a few other allied countries would be nice. as an american, i often enjoy playing as the uk more than the u.s., just because i've played 10357031850183508 games where i'm american, the change of scenery is nice.

More realistic weather.
I think that one's pretty self explanatory.

More emphasis on merchant ships.
Give us more targets to shoot at. IMO i'd rather have a large amount of varying merchant targets than an abundance of warships.

Realistic viewing distance.
self explanatory.

This one may be stretching it, but FULL 3d sub interiors in which i can move around in.
I would like to be able to move from my quarters to the periscope and back without shortcuts. In SH3 you can't just leave the periscope view into the conning tower, need to use the control room shortcut. It would be nice to be able to see the engine room, crew's quarters, and torpedo rooms as well.

i think that's about it for my wishlist hehe, a lil much?

[Zachstar]

Ya im hoping for LIFE in SH4.

I mean you have to deal with complex issues commanding a sub. Currently the guys just do simple animations and some talk. What id be nice to have is crew walking around when the shifts change. and have the ability to talk to the crew and get ideas and whatnot.

Like walking around you can see the crew playing cards or some reading books and stuff.

You hear them talking about girls, the war, their families, etc.

Having full 3d of interiors is a must. Its junk that you were limted to so few rooms.

The sub and mood need to change over time. You should have to deal with stuff breaking down and rationing of food.

When a crewmember dies there needs to be serious moral and life onboard implications.

They have plenty of time to implement MANY MANY features so lets get them all down for them to go over.

Id say the first thing to do is see how the mods fixed errors, fix them. ask the mod creators to be on the beta test team and move on. This will be a great first step.

[glenno]

I would like to see the watch officer go to the bridge automatically when surfacing . LOL

[Sulikate]

I can remember somewhere where ubi said in a future silent hunter there would be dynamic weather .
Lots more ships .
Better looking graphics.
Did i mention more ships .
Hundreds more new ports.
Did i mention more ships.
SDK pack for adding more ships.
Did i mention more ships. totally agreed.

[gunnersman]

Hi all.
Great news.


Don't make me feel alone
Although SHIII did try it, it did imho not succedd in getting rid of the feeling "I am alone". We need more radio traffic, traffic in ports, welcome messages, escort to/from base, friendly scout planes, music/news stations on radio etcetera.


I whole heartedly agree. To me, this would improve the sub sim a great deal!

I would be happy if they took SH3, improved the AI, and allowed other submarines to attack.

I wouldnt mind playing different nationalities either. To me that would make the sim much more replayable.

[Dar]

This coming from a newbie who just got SH3 last week and is enjoying it immensely.

----------------------------------------
News/Current Events Updates

I'd like to see more updates on what's happening in the larger conflict. I've only been playing a short time, but I'd like to see newspaper-like briefs displayed stating that Warsaw has fallen, Denmark and Norway have been invaded, the first air-raid on Berlin took place, etc. etc. These would be especially great during load times.

Although it's not so realistic to get such updates at sea--well, wait a minute--the crews could turn to radio stations when surfaced, right? In any case, it'd be nice to get those updates at sea as well--just to be aware of what's going on in the larger conflict.

These messages should merely be noted--not intrusive enough to interrupt time compression or require player acknowledgement.

----------------------------------------
Concentrate on ONE Playable Side

I've read a few requests here for people to be able to play as Japan or American or Dutch or British or Australian or etc, etc. Please just concentrate on playing as the Allies vs Japan, if not just the Americans vs Japan!

I think it's not realistic to expect the developers to develop good AI based on the varying equipment and doctrines of multiple nations within the timeframe of a commercial release of a game like this. Please just concentrate on the AI for the Japanese side--I want quality, not quantity!

----------------------------------------

That's my short list for now based on my short playing time so far with SH3. I'm sure I'll have more as I play more!

[Rosencrantz]

This time I hope Devs wouldn't be so much worried about graphics, but other things. We use to think how "good looking game" is the most important feature for a "casual player". I think that's not true. More depth the game has, more "casuals" will end up to be real enthusiastics. And this means more markets in the future. :hmm:


Few of my wishes are:

- No need to use ID book with TDC notepad. Mast height "scale" working like AOB "scale" in SHIII would be useful and great.
- Key commands for rudder: 5, 10,15,20,30, Full right/left rudder. Should work like engine commands.
- REALISTIC crew placements in control room and command tower!
- Possibilities to handle the engines separately and to drive the boat with e-motors on the surface.
- More sounds, thats more important than better graphics!
- PROPERLY GIVEN PATROL ORDERS, IF POSSIBLE! Or at least orders better than given in SHIII.
- Rescue / Intelligence tasks like original SH got.
- FIRST RANK TO BE LEUTNANT SNR, NOT JR. Leutnant Jr didn't get the command!
- Read what Dar and Joe S wrote!

[glenno]

1/ better graphics
2/ in the same style as SH3
3/ realstic
4/ SDK ship and sub pack so the mod community can add there own ships and subs .(apart from 100s of ships & subs included)
5/ The ability to add buildings , ports , landscape objects ourselves.
6/ The world to be way more detailed .
7/ Everyone has broadband so why carnt BDU be online . I dont know how this would work . Im just trying to think ouside the box .
Regards FRITZ DITTMER LEUTNANT Z. S

[Sniper_1]

I've posted earlier about my specific wishlist (more compartments on sub to enter, more realistic crew managemt and improved graphics etc).

I have a sneaky suspicion that SH4 is going to be SH3.5, in that it will be just an updated and re-modeled SH3 engine. I doubt if Ubi would go to the trouble of designing another subsim from scratch when it allready has a very good subsim to play with.

On that note i'd like to add a few more wishes after reading the thread:

1. More realistic orders, given in a correct USN style for the time, and using correct terminology and phrases. Not just go to point A and cruise around for a bit.

2. Added to this realistic intel breifings/intel documents on what to expect in the way of Jap convoys and Naval forces in you op area.

3. Photo Recon missions, beach recon missions and lifegaurd/pilot rescue missions.

4. Better Radio traffic. A modder called irishred developed a full set of accurate radio messages from Bdu to the U-boats at sea and this massively added to the immersion of SH3. A similar set of accurate radio logs should be developed for SH4. And note to DEVS: This is a perfect project to get the modders involved in BEFORE the game is released. A radio log file with a list of real life messages could be complied without the modders knowing anything about the actual development of SH4.

In fact there are several tasks which the mod community could get involved in before the game is actually released, from researching various historical facts etc. to actually designing 3d models and Skinning the resultant models. The modders involved would of course be under NDA's (Non Disclosure Agreements) and some of them might even work for free (a copy of SH4 a week or so before the rest of us would be payment enough i feel for many modders+the feeling of actually being involved in such a project). The talent of the modders on this forum is amazing, one only has to look at the SH2 to Pacific Aces conversion to see that the Devs would be throwing away a golden opportunity if they did not enlist some of the massive talent on this forum.

Sniper_1.

[Sniper_1]

More thoughts/ideas have come to mind:

-An 'officers mess' for between patrols where you can catch up on gossip and news about the progress of the war etc.

-A series of 'qualifiying' courses at the start for just you as a PCO (Prospective Commanding Officer). The sub and crew you use for this is not the one you will command. Have seperate crew training excercises to improve crew skills prior to deploying.

-If you accept a new build boat, you have to return to the states to commission her. That means that you arrive at a shipyard and pick up the boat from there, with a cut-scene comissioning ceremony (maybe you even see her being launched and worked on/fitted out in the yard). You then have the option of going through the training missions again (to train your crew, as they would be historically a mix of about 1/3 experienced crew and 2/3rd new crew).

-If you change your command have a proper 'change of command ceremony' as per USN traditions.

Thats all i can think off for now.

Sniper_1.

[supersloth]

- food limits your time at sea.
- more realistic navigation
-bad weather blocks the stars and makes it more difficult to navigate and you might get blown off course.
-random machine breakdowns.
-wolfpacks
-special/scripted missions. like photographing ports and stuff.
- model of the entire sub interior.
-good moddability.

[iambecomelife]

Several wishes:


-Much better crew management. I'd prefer to be able to create watches that automatically man their stations instead of having to babysit throughout the cruise. Maybe crew who are on the same watch can develop some sort of bond - perhaps they accumulate experience points faster.

-This brings me to the crewmembers themselves. SH3 was a good start; now, I'd like to see more 3d variation amongst the bodies and heads of crew. At the very least, unique 2d portraits/ID cards would help a lot. Give us a little background info - maybe the radioman's a green-as-grass farmboy from the Midwest. Maybe the XO's out for blood because his brother's MIA on Wake Island. It may seem minor, but it's little things like this that make a game a classic. If it's too much trouble, allow us to write our own bio's. Also, some representation of stress or injuries - nothing disgusting, maybe an arm in a sling or bandages. The crew should show more emotion, based on what's happened during the patrol.

Plus, how about a more complex measure of crew traits? A possible value table follows:

-Teamwork: Governs how a sailor affects the rest of his watch. High values will help the entire group learn/gain XP faster.
-Competence: How well a sailor performs individual tasks. Maybe a poor radioman will garble your messages. A bad torpedoman will accidently fire the fish while you're setting up an attack.
-Courage: Self explanatory. It would be interesting to have crewmembers panic under stress, like in B-17 II.
-Endurance: Affects morale, especially on long patrols. Governs how likely a crewmember is to recover from wounds or illness.
-Fame: Accumulated after a spectacular feat or consistent success. Maybe only for your officers, or just the player's character. Can lead to unit citations, special rewards illustrated thru cut scenes, etc.
-Infamy: Accumulated similarly, but based on friendly fire, disobeying orders, and other misconduct.

********

-The submarine should be much more vulnerable than it currently is. One hit from a heavy shell should make it impossible to dive. There need to be breakdowns and random systems failures. Sailing at 19-20 kts for hours on end should not go unpunished; something's eventually going to overheat... At higher levels of realism, aborted patrols should not be unheard of. Plus, the game DEFINITELY needs to model the poor American torpedoes, especially the Mk XIV. There are far too few duds ingame now, even allowing for SH3's more reliable German torpedoes.

-The AI for enemy units should be more complex. Merchants should straggle and (occasionally) assist torpedoed comrades. Destroyers shouldn't pursue submarines en masse - they should leave one or two to screen the remainder of the convoy. Ships should zigzag even if there isn't an immediate threat, especially late in the war. Skilled escorts should stop their engines and lure you into coming to the surface after a prolonged DC'ing. In surface battles, units shouldn't always fight to the death; they ought to break off the attack if badly damaged or outnumbered. Survivors/lifeboats MUST be modeled. As I said before, think of how differently WWII submarine warfare would have been if the escorts didn't have the added responsibility of saving survivors.

-Special missions. American sub commanders hated them, but the odd commando raid or supply run would diversify our gaming experience. I'd also love to pull lifeguard duty as well.

-Real trade lanes. You should encounter lots of tankers heading for the east indies to pick up oil for the Home Islands. In late 1942, you should see lots of troopships heading for Guadalcanal, and so on. Sinking ships in a certain area should have consequences. If there's a dynamic campaign, an enemy's advance or war effort might be slowed by your handiwork. This is by no means ahistorical; IIRC the USS "Jack" caused a severe oil shortage in Japan by wiping out a convoy of tankers late in the war. There should be risks, as well - the escort should become heavier and more alert if you hit a single area hard.

-Some sign that there's a world beyond your sub. A few cut scenes would be interesting; maybe a mix of the game's animation and stock footage from, say, Midway, Iwo Jima, etc. I really want to see the equivalent of that bar in 'Aces of the Deep'. Chat with other captains, see your own crew outside of the sub, and so forth. If the dev's really want to get into the role-playing aspect, maybe your actions ashore can contribute to promotions/rewards. The sad truth is that sucking up may get you a promotion as surely as sinking a Maru.

-A good variety of surface targets, with an emphasis on cargo ships. From 10,000 ton tankers to dugout canoes, and everything in between. If it's just not possible to include lots of different vessels the developers will have to make the game as moddable as possible, so that the community can help rectify this. I would also like non-player submarines and torpedo-carrying units.

-Better damage modeling and a wider variety of cargoes. Iron ore and balsa wood will have very different effects on a vessel's sinking rate. Flooding should vary based on what is being carried, a ship's size, the seastate, and the skill level of the crew. Metal should deform and bend. Furthermore, ships should enter an "abandoned" state where they will drift and not fire on you, even if they have undamaged weapons. Currently, even the most hoplelessly crippled merchant ship stays manned until the bitter end-not realistic at all.

-The campaign must remain dynamic/semi-dynamic. The current system of random merchant contacts/percentages would work well, with a few adjustments-particularly, the ability for groups to scatter or merge with one another.

-If possible, an "Admiral Mode" like the current "SubWolves" project, where you can dispatch boats on individual missions and conduct R & D. The player can conduct single missions that will have a "ripple effect" on the average success of the fleet as a whole. I can understand if there's not enough time to include this mode of play, though.

-Additional nationalities. I'd be willing to pay for an addon with Japanese, Dutch and British subs. The ideal game would also feature a German Atlantic campaign as well. ;)

Scripted storylines bore me, and tend to be quite predictable. I don't want a trite "I-won-the-war-single-handedly" screenplay, with a square-jawed hero and barbie-doll female co-star. I want to take up the role of a commander with 1000's of possibilites ahead of him. Maybe you'll be the next O'Kane or Mush Morton. Maybe you'll sink a handful of ships and live a quiet postwar life. Then again, you could get sunk on your first patrol.

[Karl-Heinz Jaeger]

What I don't get is why are people asking to make it US specific or Japanese specific?? Wouldn't we all be FAR better off if the Dev's made SHIV a COMPREHENSIVE WWII NAVAL SIM, instead of just a US sub game?? Picture SHIII with the option to play as any of the nations who employed submarines and submariners as part of their striking fleet, but with the added dimension of a DC2 as par for the course. This would allow a pretty complete WWII naval experience from convoy escort to carrier ops and everything in between.

I personally feel that anything less than this would be a massive letdown and a huge waste of time and money. As far as in game features go, the boats should be fully interactive with the ability to walk around the sub and chat to your crew, supervise torpedo reloading times and repair crews, replace fuses in the blown fuse box, move dials set switches-basically everything that had to be done irl by a real crew. Despite the obvious work gone into SHIII, there was still an awful lot of details left out to the extent that one was left with a level of involvement that was almost totally limited to issuing commands. The whole experience needs to be re-done from scratch, taking into account the lessons learned from SHIII and implementing the enormous flood of ideas that we here at Subsim.com have put forth. Make it as realistic as possible, as dynamic as possible and as large and immersive as possible with unlimited choice of theatre, nation, platform and vehicle. I think the chances of a SHV being made are V,V low so I would like to see SHIV so complete a naval gaming experience that the next big naval game to hit the shelves after it's release is a cutlass and gunpowder driven one-think Master & Commander!!

[AACherokee]

I would like to change the names of my crew-members. Or the names of other "captains" sailing the large ocean. I like playing with friends of mine manning the torpedo-stations ;-)

[Sturm]

I would like to change the names of my crew-members. Or the names of other "captains" sailing the large ocean. I like playing with friends of mine manning the torpedo-stations ;-)

You can already do this in SH3 by using SH3 Commander. ;)

[Cuttooth]

I found SHIII to be ultimately surprisingly shallow. Break it down and it's the same mission over and over again. Although the experience is still good, I still had a nagging feeling at the back of my mind that it could have been so much better.

If the BdU option had worked and we could have been sent off to different missions, then SHIII would have had been so much better.
When I came to the end of a career in SHIII, there was still a feeling of what could have been.

So, a wishlist then.

1. The ability to get different kinds of missions from HQ, such as escorting warships, patrols, search and destroy, scouting etc. But these missions should only be given from HQ when requsted.

2. More realistic enemy AI.

3. Friendly submarines that you can help out (with missions from HQ as well), and that you can team up with.

4. Historical set pieces such as island attacks.

5. A fully navigatable interior, so we can see all of the crew.

6. A better crew management system, with the ability to set shifts.

7. Hopefully the ability to play as the enemy.

8. A better system on the usage of deck guns/AA guns so that you can set them up, but crewmembers can be swept away, with the chance of that happening increasing with the size of the waves, so in very strong winds, you can't even have a watch crew.

And the obvious wish; for it not to be buggy.

[E.F von Schlippenbach]

Im not terribly concerned by the type of subs and the nationalities.I would like to see an expansion of the different compartmnets of the sub.

Also I may not always want to embody the Commander perhaps the LI when assesing damage, or going to the forward or aft torpedo rooms.

I would also like to see bodies moving about the ship sailors going on watch,routine passage of people moving through the centrale.

The rota system needs to be looked at there should be prompt intercom messages reminding people that next watch is going on, just like in Das Boat.

Compartments should reflect real u-boats so the hot bunking system works.

Things to do in the Captains bunk, write the daily log,gramophone record selection.

Most of my observations are regarding the environment I want to feel like Im on a u-boat.

[Harry Buttle]

"What I don't get is why are people asking to make it US specific or Japanese specific?? Wouldn't we all be FAR better off if the Dev's made SHIV a COMPREHENSIVE WWII NAVAL SIM, instead of just a US sub game??"

Nope, it would take too long and add little to the game.

The problem is that the devs then have to put in the vast amount of allied shipping, all of which will be ignored by Japanese boats (with very limited exceptions) because Japanese doctrine was that a merchant wasn't worth wasting a torp on.

You then throw the mass of allied aircraft to model/implement and spend much of the late war either tied up at the pier for lack of fuel or doing those thrilling grocery deliveries to outlying garrisons (carrying few, if any, torps to increase cargo capacity).

I wouldn't mind seeing an option to make the tactical map rotate around you as you turn (so that the map is always oriented to the outside world), rather than have the sub icon turn on the map.

[Sniper_1]

Another idea(s):

Warflags, USN fleet boats of WW2 were renowned for their colourful warfalgs which displayed their sinkings and achievments. Those of the Growler, Ray and Wahoo come to mind.

So instead/aswell as conning tower insignia, have the sub display a warflag when it returns to port, maybe even the warflag can be updated with the latest sinkings of the submarine. I seem to remember that in the original SH, in the cutscene showing return to port, your boat sported victory pennants for each sinking you achieved. Include this aswell please....

Sniper_1.

[bookworm_020]

Shore bombardment - It happened on many occasions

Crew management - After each patrol a percentage of crew must be rotated off your sub. This is historical accurate as many boat had around a quarter of their crew replaced, sometimes more.

Multi national play - Like to see British, Dutch subs with the allies and both Japanese and German sub to play with.

[Captain Vlad]

1> Improved Dynamic Campaign. Plenty of people have already mentioned potential improvments, such as special missions being assigned during a patrol. I want that to happen. Give me some Marine Raiders to drop off occasionally, a convent full of nuns to evacuate out of the path of the Japanese advance, pilots to rescue, harbors to recon, etc, etc, etc.

2> More sub customization options. All the extra gear you could buy in SH III? Keep that, but toss in paint schemes (a lot of sub skippers fiddled with that), warflags, and on subs with more than one spot to mount a deck gun, let us decide where to put it.

3> More streamlined crew management...but don't get rid of it. Let us set watch rotations and such. Adding more 'attributes' to the crewmen as someone else suggested would be nice too.

4> Subs, subs, subs. I'd love a chance to play the Japanese, but if it's Allied only, I'd like to take a Brit or Dutch sub to sea, and I want a full selection of US boats to choose from. I also wouldn't mind being stalked by an IJN sub or raising my periscope to discover my enemy counterpart cruising along on the surface...

5> More traffic. Yeah, I know a lot of people play with the reduced traffic mod, but it seems to me that the ocean should have more activity in certain areas. When I hug the coast of Britain and don't even see a fishing boat, somethings out of whack...throw in the inter-island traffic such as barges and sampans and such.

6> More immersion. The radio stuff needs to be improved over SH III. Send us messages that were historically sent, updates on the status of the war, news from home, etc. Have the option to turn this off, I suppose, but please...put it in.

And just for a small thing I'd love to see...

7> More guns on the boat. US Boats often carried small arms for supplemental firepower. Lemme set the BARs up on the conning tower so I can pump more tracers into patrol boats and other small nuisances. :D

[Type941]

Replays

I would like to have campaigns saved to a replay file so they can be viewed in cenematic fashion so to say. Could be nice to look at how the AI works in ASW and how you attack, etc, analyze. I think it can be a very nice and needed feature

[g-z]

Hello everyone.

I'm basically a subsim newb and i got hooked when SHIII was released. I instantly went out and bought a copy of Das Boot too and i spend a lot of time searching through the list of documentary channels on sky for decent WWII submariner programs. It's wrecked my life :rotfl:

Anyway, introductions aside, I can see a lot of good suggestions here for the upcoming SHIV. Personally, the most important feature improvements - IMO - would have to be:

__________________________________________________ _____


1). Like everyone else has said - a more involved campaign.

The world does feel a little lonely at times in SHIII. Most of the time this is not a problem but sometimes i can't help feeling like i have the only German boat in the world. Also, it feels a bit too samey when i have to patrol over and over again. Some previously mentioned diversity of objective would be greatly appreciated.

__________________________________________________ _____

2). Heightened experience of being inside the submarine.

This one is most important to me. I really appreciate being able to stand in the conning tower and sit on my (captains) bed etc etc. However, continuity seems to pass me completely by as the screen flicks into each compartment. I've seen quite a few people mention the ability to roam freely about the sub, however i can't help but feel this would detract from gameplay by introducing a first-person style edge.

What i propose would be like a kind of camera waypoint "track" between compartments. For instance - if i am in the command room and i want to get to the bridge, then i press F4 and the camera moves towards the hatch and up the ladder to the conning tower, and from there up onto the bridge. This is a feature that i have craved from the start after being initially a little dissapointed at the internal navigation dynamics.

Also, when i bring up the navigation map, it feels like i am viewing the map from outside of the sub (if you know what i mean). Using the above idea it would be nice to have the camera zoom into it to try and establish that i am still in the sub and i'm looking at a real chart, rather than a planning screen in "non-space".

On top of all this, I completely agree with what everyone else has proposed for the sub interior. More compartments (even just to explore) and more crew interacting with their tin-can environment.

__________________________________________________ _____

3). Alternate course navigation

How many times have you logged a course to a far away destination, only to bump into an enemy contact and make a detour?

I just found it a little too tedious that i had to zoom out on the navigation map and make course alterations, only to re-enter them once i had dealt with the target.

It would make my life sooooo much happier if - upon spotting a contact - you could press a button and your current course settings would vanish but be saved to return upon a second push of the button. Meanwhile you would be free to enter new details to deal with what is at hand.

__________________________________________________ _____

4). I want the ability to peek up at the bridge to see how bad the weather is without sticking my head up and getting waves over my head. Hahaha, no seriously....I have a phobia of the ocean. Hehe :doh:

__________________________________________________ _____

[half joke] 5). How about adding the crew quarters compartment where you can sit down and play a fully working version of chess with one of the crew. Would be good for those of us that dabble with 1X :up: [/half joke]

__________________________________________________ _____

[CCIP]

Replays

I would like to have campaigns saved to a replay file so they can be viewed in cenematic fashion so to say. Could be nice to look at how the AI works in ASW and how you attack, etc, analyze. I think it can be a very nice and needed feature

More importantly, imagine the effort it'd save those of us who like to make movies :arrgh!:

[Sniper_1]

Do we know if anybody is taking notes? By that i mean is Neal and the rest of the 'Sealords' taking notice of what is being said here (especially the SHIV DEV team). It might be a good time to roll up everything that has been said here and present maybe the top ten wishes of the Subsim SHIV forum to those who will actually be bringing us the game, I was a member of the SH3 Forum at the official site but this site is/was much better.

Sniper_1

[Drebbel]

History has shown us the dev teams do read the main forums of the community.

During the last Subsim&SubClub meeting this has been confirmed by Florin (SHIII) once again.

[Sniper_1]

Good Stuff :up: :up:

Lets hope they listen more this time to what the Forums are saying.
Allready its easy to see a general consensus developing about what is wanted in SH4, so lets all hope that they can include these features in SH4.

Sniper_1

[g-z]

I don't see why they wouldn't take everything said in this forum into account.

After all, SH doesn't seem to attract the low-attention spanned twitch gamers who only want more bang for their buck.

One thing that i'm not in agreement with everyone else about is the ability to play different/opposing nations. I'd prefer to stick to and focus on one, but that really isn't too important to me. Whatever is cool :D

[Sniper_1]

Based on what has been said 'officially', SH4 is going to be another member of the Silent Hunter franchise, set in the pacific war. That pretty much means that the game will:

1. Be focused on the players submarine i.e. little or no 'stragtegic' element to the game.

2. The player will play as a USN submarine skipper.

3. Will include much of the elements allready seen in SH3, i.e. dynamic campaigns, boat upgrades and crew management features.

I doubt that other nations subs will be included, but the modders should be able to easily address this issue if the DEV's take a little time at the outset to make the game more open and moddable.

Sniper_1

[Sniper_1]

Just though of another thing i'd like to see in SH4.

During WW2 USN fleet boats were regularly sent back to
Mare Island or Hunters Point for refitting and upgrades. Can we have that included in the game? The forward sub bases can carry out 'minor' upgrades and refit work, but the 'major' work needs a Naval Yard. So every 3rd/4th patrol or so you have to run stateside for a 1-2 month layup in dock while you boat is overhauled and new weapons/sensors etc. fitted.

Sniper_1

[Harry Buttle]

an icon on the nav map that told you wind and sea state (then you'd quickly know if you could man guns or not).

a difference in what constitutes safe weather to man the deck gun and what constitutes safe weather to man the conning tower guns (being higher up, the tower guns should be able to be manned in considerably worse weather than the deck gun).

[Drebbel]

an icon on the nav map that told you wind and sea state (then you'd quickly know if you could man guns or not).

Hmmm, might be nice but seems a bit too unrealistic to me. That remids me of another option I was thinking off

More settings in options/realism menu
Please provide more choices in the options/realism menu. We need atleast a setting for all non-realistic features. So that an arcade lover can have an "lets shoot sumtin" game and a real realism lover can have a "real""realistic experience.

[Type941]

Replays

I would like to have campaigns saved to a replay file so they can be viewed in cenematic fashion so to say. Could be nice to look at how the AI works in ASW and how you attack, etc, analyze. I think it can be a very nice and needed feature

More importantly, imagine the effort it'd save those of us who like to make movies :arrgh!:

Exactly. I hope the 'disk space' nonsense won't come in the way of it.

[Harry Buttle]

an icon on the nav map that told you wind and sea state (then you'd quickly know if you could man guns or not).

Hmmm, might be nice but seems a bit too unrealistic to me. That remids me of another option I was thinking off



I'd defend it on the basis that a Captain would be kept apraised of the sea state (and could feel it), we can't get that input and under accelerated time, don't have any input from the crew to tell us of changes.

I could live with it being an option that can be turned on/off.

[zoso791]

I still remeber SH1 which was a pacific threat type subsime if I do recall right. I would love to have another Pacific threat subsim to add to the collection I have right now. (SH1-SH3) Personally I do believe that there can be some updates to SH3 that would improve the game play but having a game to see the difference between the Uboat campign and the American Sub Navy would be great.

Jan

[stinger503]

Japanese subs are a must: think about it, you could start off in a two man midget sub or something and move up from there, then you could be a mother sub and fire midget subs or something. plus it would have a learning curve ex. going from the easy pre-US war days to the US-Japanese war, thus extending the war for you

New missions from HQ ex. attack the Panama Canal, raid Pearl Harbour, hunt other sub or ship etc. maybe add in secret missions ex. delivering atom bombs to Germany or testing out a new sub etc.

Fully set interior and crew, ex. I want to see my torpedo crew loading external torpedoes while on deck etc., I'd also like to see damage, so when water is pilling in through a hole in the engine room, i want to be there

Innovative online- play as cat and mouse ex. 1 team plays as the destroyers (or better yet cargos) and another as subs. However leave destroyers and such out of the single player.

Timed crew shifts.

maybe receive weather reports, and hurricanes

"News" system over radio when in port and/or out on the water (a la Starlancer)

better death sequence, i want to be in the sub till it implodes, and then watch her sink.

wolfpacks

[bill clarke]

Gents, my two cents worth. A full range of IJN ships, not just the BB's, CV's ect, but all the auxilliarys, like the submarine depot ships, and the repair ship Akashi, and the later CVL's, have the Chiose and Chiyoda, then if they survive to the point of their conversion, have them respawn as the carrier's, likewise, the Hyuga and Ise, respawn as BCV's (I think that's the right acronym). If the Dev's want to do it right then they should give us plenty of classes of ships.

forgot to mention more realistic damage model, when BB's roll over their turrets fall off, all deck cargo should slide off along with anything else not nailed down, including crew.

[Sniper_1]

To get the maximum number of ships in SH4 the DEV's should enlist the modelers on this site now to help them. The DEV's could probably create roughly the same ammount of ships for SH4 as they did for SH3, but just think of the numbers/versions/skins etc. that could be created with the help of the modders here :sunny: .

Sniper_1

[Drebbel]

To get the maximum number of ships in SH4 the DEV's should enlist the modelers on this site now to help them. The DEV's could probably create roughly the same ammount of ships for SH4 as they did for SH3, but just think of the numbers/versions/skins etc. that could be created with the help of the modders here :sunny: .

Sniper_1

Oh my. Modders selling their work ?? Now THAT is a touchy subject :D

[MarshalLaw]

Hello everyone,

New to the forums. I would like to comment on SH4 , the eye candy is nice and crew management, etc.etc. But the most important feature that this game will need is a good multiplayer platform. Without that this game will die off as all others do after 1-2 years, except for the most hardcore fan. If you have a good multiplayer platform a game can survive for up to 5 years.. don't believe me I will give you a example you can check out. I use to play a game called mech warrior 4 this game was new in 2001 had one expansion CD that came out 2 years later "Mercs", after that the devolpers moved on to something else. In the meantime a dedicated group of Mod people enhanced the game and it survives today. Although it is finally starting to die. Checkout Netbattletech.com Go to Hard core link and poke around. This site would be a good template on how a SH4 league could be set up. The main thing that the SH4 dev.team would need to do is to have the ability to incorperate Destoryer command into the game so that games can be ship vs sub. The wolfpack system that SH3 has playing against the AI does not cut it. Playing against another person is the most challenging. If the dev team can give the Mod people a good foundation to work with . The Mod people will do the rest. I have seen and used some of the mods that are offered on this site and there are some talented people out there.

If you want SH4 to last until 2010 or later, Multiplayer is the focus you need not the eye candy. That can come later. :know:

[Sniper_1]

No mention of X1 software here :P ....but surely modders would not be 'selling' their work, mearly allowing us a license to view their efforts :-j . Just like none of us actually 'bought' SH3 or any other peice of software we think we 'own', after all we've only purchased the right to use the software, which at all times remains the 'property' of the publisher.

On a more serious note, i think modders could be persuaded to contribute to the game pre-release. If the models/skins they created were:

a. properly attributed to the modders.
b. if the modders were allowed to participate in the Beta Test.
c. If the modders received a copy of SH4 a week before everyone else.

I'm not arguning for a wholesale change in the way games are produced, just that there seems to be a wealth of talent on this forum which has been hard at work modding and adding to the various SH games. It would seem a waste not to include the best of this talent pre-release to make SH4 an even better game 'out of the box' than SH3 was.

Rgrds

Sniper_1

[raymond6751]

If SH4 started with a fix of all SH3 problems and then relocated to the Pacific...change the sub models of course.

Remember - time taken to add cosmetic features like crew moving around or the mealtime visit to the wardroom take time away from programming the meat of the game - sub warfare.

I'd like to see them release a version that can be flexible enough to add such things after release. For instance, program keystrokes for future hooks to allow screen overlays of crew quarters (stills) and wardroom scenes, or damage repairs going on. They don't have to be animations.

Wolfpacks and milk cows were not a part of the Pacific war, but AI subs to compete with and communicate with would be nice.

[Harry Buttle]

Wolfpacks were a part of the late war US Pac fleet strategy.

[tautug]

Well, lots of good things on this list from others.

Have any of you visited Pearl Harbor??? I just did this year, and have done many trips to Gato class subs around America. But, most importantly, the feeling of cruising the Pacific should be paramount.

The whole "Gilligans Island, Midway, McHales Navy" island tropical feel should surround the sim, especially when in ports.

A bit more activity in a lush tropical port with war briefings etc. would help the "feel of the sim" up front.

As far as game play......A huge difference between German subs and American Sub War was the American ships were like being on a cruise ship vs. German subs. Toilets and Showers in sterling silver, much nicer cumfy bunks, polished instruments and guages like driving your yacht, and officers and crew in full uniform at all times, needs to be there for proper look and feel.

Being able to go to all compartments I think is essential, and more interaction with your officers. Possibly, having meals servced in officers mess (which look like art deco diners), and read war updates/communiques, talk strategy with your officers.

A sleep function, as well as time compression. I.e. set watch schedules, plot course, do tasks, but send captain to cabin to sleep. Set wake time, unless watch officer wakes captain for problem or sighting.

My wishes are more asthetic, and should couple with the gameplay wishes of the others. I can only say from sincerity that asthetics will really help capture what it was like to serve on a sub in Pacific.

Also, I would like to see subs ordered to tactical battles. It's one thing to not be "alone" on your sub in the sim, but another to feel like the only sub in the war. US subs were part of group offensives and defensives, and those "single mission" assignments, should coincide with a dynamic campaign at the dates where they actually occurred.

OK, enough for now.

[Safe-Keeper]

Everyone, I don't know how you react to a humble "n00b" with 5 posts telling you what to do :P , but please stop posting things like "dynamic campaign", "milk cows", "AI submarines", "historical events", etc. Those are, as was mentioned, given: The developers know they're good features. They know you want them. Let's not make this thread (which is going to turn into a 1000+ post monster) any longer than it needs to be, hm? Thanks in advance on behalf of whatever poor sod comes in here in a year and needs to Search 600 posts before he can add his idea:).

(If the moderator(s) can be bothered to delete the posts of the ego-centric idiots who post already-proposed ideas without searching this thread, that'd be nice as well).

- - - - - -

OK, did a search for "fire" on each page, but the idea didn't come up. So:


More on-board "catastrophes" in addition to flooding. Examples include fires (create smoke, cause damage to equipment and/or crewmen, and can spread), gas leaks (reduce available oxygen and eventually hurts the crewmen, especially if fans are damaged), smoke (reduce O2), bulbs that go out and need replacing (the darkness making the crew of the compartment less efficient), and other things. Have 3D models change accordingly (give them gas masks, flash-lights, etc.)
Spare parts: Your crew can repair things that aren't completely wrecked, in the manner of Silent Hunter III, but every minute you begin of repairs uses up one Spare Part Unit (SPU), and when you're out of SPU, you can't carry out more repairs until you dock with a milk cow or other form of supply vessel for more SPU's, or return to a friendly port. Of course "Unlimited Spare Parts" should either be a separate option, or a part of the "Realistic Damage/Repair time" realism option(s).
Submarines in World War II did not come with GPS systems. Have your crewmen handle positioning of the sub on the map in a realistic way, giving an error rate to the map if you've been submerged or under cloud cover for prolonged periods of time. When the sun/stars become visible again, your crewmen can use their tools to localize just about exactly where you are. Need I say that if this is to be included, it'll have to be a realism option ;) ?
Instrumentation that's damaged or destroyed. Anyone who's played the X-Wing series knows how much challenge and depth it adds to the game to suddenly be without scanners or other equipment. Imagine diving without a working depth gauge, trying to estimate how far you can get with a fuel metre that's stuck at 74%, and so on.
To expand on communication: I'd like dynamic, direct communication with AI ships, akin to how you command your wingmen in flight simulator games.

Example 1: Let's say you're on the surface with another submarine. You receive a radio report on a convoy a few miles away, so you lock onto the submarine next to you, access your watch officer menu, and choose "communication", then "follow this boat". The officer acknowledges and gets out a morse light, signalling the other boat to follow. The other boat acknowledges, and you go hunt Japanese merchants.

Example 2: You receive a radio message from a friendly submarine that's spotted a Japanese task force. You bring up the list of available replies and choose "hold off your attack until we arrive". Your radioman acknowledges and tells the other boat to wait.

Example 3: You're low on supplies and request a supply ship. Just then a Japanese destroyer tears out of the fog and starts shooting at you. Before dying, you barely have time to send a message telling the poor merchant to abort his rendezvous with you as you've come under attack.


A sleep function, as well as time compression. I.e. set watch schedules, plot course, do tasks, but send captain to cabin to sleep. Set wake time, unless watch officer wakes captain for problem or sighting.
I liked much better how you "just were there", ad hoc, not really needing rest, healing etc. And anyways, you can sleep when time compression is at max :zzz:

[Drebbel]

Everyone, I don't know how you react to a humble "n00b" with 5 posts telling you what to do :P

We don't react at all. We read his message with great interest because even people from Norway are welcome in these forums :lol: And we give him a warm welcome. But we do tell him that white text is a bad idea because people using the subsilver theme can not read that white text on a grey background :lol:

See the screenshot below:
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/hosting/shiv/whitetext.jpg

Drebbel (with my moderator hat on)

[Safe-Keeper]

Anchored and moored ships that actually have their anchores or mooring ropes as part of the model. Perhaps a few crates lying around, and repairmen working on the ship? Or cranes that actually load/unload cargo or weapons?

In SH3, "docked" meant "ready to go to full speed and sink you at a second's notice". Shouldn't docked ships take a little longer than "regular" ships to get up and running? Something else that woulb be nice is if docked/anchored ships had most of the lights in their cabins shut off, for then to turn them on when they saw you and started manning stations.

[Sniper_1]

More stuff....

-Sampans and Junks and loads of coastal traffic...juicy targets for the 40mm and 20mm guns of your fleet boat.
-Lifegaurd duty, beach recon/photo recon misssions and special forces landings.

Sniper_1

[fargel]

Hmmm let’s see....

-What I truly want to be able to do is to go into all compartments. If you can only have a fixed spot (like SH3 where the camera is fixed) doesn't matter. I just want to hear, and see the engines running. Seems that everyone wants this feature...

-Another one would be sailors on the sub are able to walk around, and not be fixed in the same spot, unless you remove him from crew management.

-I want to have more variety in submarines, and in nationalities. I don't want to only play as the Americans, but also play as part of the Japanese or Germans. I'm afraid that I won't buy a game where you can only play as the Allies. I would want to play a game that focuses on each side as they fought their enemy. It has much more appeal to the game!

-Improved multiplayer is a must. I play 3/4 of my time gaming on multiplayer because I never feel "alone." It’s great to talk to other people while you're playing and not exiting the game to talk to someone. I've never played SH2, but the idea of a multiplayer that has a human player controlling a destroyer trying to sink your sub, would be a good time.

-Improving graphics isn't that important for me. I would like to see changes done to the model's head and body. The clothes seem...chunky. And at times, when I play, the neck and body would disappear and all I see is the head floating with binoculars looking out to the sea. It looks funny, but gets annoying.

[donut]

Tips'n'Tricks
Courtesy of SilentHunter site
Evasion
You can get an idea of how far away an escort is by listening to its pings. Escorts that are less than 4500 yards away have a sharper sounding ping than those that are more than 4500 yards away. The escorts' sonar seems to be able to pick you up only when you're within 3500-4000 yards. Consequently, if you're sneaking away from several escorts and some have sharp pings and some have fuzzy pings, you can ignore the escorts with fuzzy pings, i.e., keep a small profile to only the escorts with sharp pings. The escorts with fuzzy pings are too far away to detect you.

At periscope depth with the periscope down, ships passing overhead will sometimes wreck your periscope. It's better to go down another 20 feet while the ship passes over and then come back to periscope depth than to take a chance on destroying your periscope. This can happen while working your way inside a convoy's escort screen, inside the convoy during the mad scramble after you sink a ship, or if you stay at periscope depth while evading the escorts. The hardest time to avoid this is while maneuvering around a harbor during a photo recon, because you'll have no sonar info on the ships at anchor and won't know when they're overhead if it's been awhile since you've looked around with the periscope.

On a related note, destroyers have a hard time depth charging you if you are directly underneath a ship. I don't know if it's because they're smart enough not to drop DC's close to one of their own because it could be damaged or because they can't make a proper run on their sonar contact with the ship in the way. I hid underneath a heavy cruiser in Truk Harbor all day after a photo recon. When the destroyers gave up on me, I snuck out from underneath the cruiser, sank a juicy target nearby, then hide underneath the cruiser again. In between sinkings, I put the TDC in manual mode to keep track of the location of the cruiser while I was under it. I've used this several times since then.

Gone as deep as you can and can't find a thermal gradient to hide under? You might want to think about returning to periscope depth, so that you can see what the escorts are doing. (I find this especially true when playing at 115% realism.) Listen to the amount of time between when the depth charges splash and when they explode. A long time means the DC's are going deep before exploding, so you might as well be shallow. If you can keep the escorts from spotting your periscope, they might keep thinking you're deep.

You can sometimes mislead escorts by having a torpedo explode away from where you are. Torpedoes explode when they have travelled their maximum distance. The escorts will investigate the explosion, which can buy you time to get away. I found this out accidentally when trying to sink an escort (one of 8) with a small angle-on-the-bow shot. The torpedo missed, travelled its 3500 yards, and exploded. All of the escorts went chasing after it at high speed. I took off in the other direction and escaped. I've only used this with Mark 18's, so I'm not sure if it will work with the Mark 14's, since the escorts may see the wake and know where it was launched from. It does cost you a torpedo, but if you don't have enough torpedoes to get away from the escorts, or if you can't go deep because of damage or shallow waters, this can be a good option.

If you're evading on the surface, keep in mind that you can do a much better job of aiming your deck gun than the computer can, especially if the sea is rough or you're turning. I put the deck gun on "auto" for a second to let the computer find the target for me. (Make sure it picks the target you want, if there's more than one nearby.) Then I switch to manual and select the target to do the shooting myself. For whatever reason, the Japanese destroyers don't usually shoot at you unless the range is less than 2000 yards. (This is not always true. I've been shelled at up to 5000 yards. I think it depends on the quality of the destroyer's crew.) I can usually hit destroyers at a range of at least 4000 yards in moderate seas. If two destroyers are chasing me with one nearly behind the other, I aim for the nearest one, hit him several times to slow him down, and then change course such that the undamaged destroyer has to go around the damaged one. Usually the undamaged destroyer slows down while going around the damaged one, so I can open up the distance and get away.

Beware of the depths on the nautical charts. Several times I've been in locations where the chart shows water deeper than my test depth, only to run aground on my way down. (The dark blue area southwest of Manila comes to mind...only some of it is greater than 200 feet deep.) If you have time, submerge ahead of time in questionable areas to find out if the water is shallow. If you're caught in shallow water and have to evade, pay attention to your speed gauge: It will drop suddenly to 0 a few seconds before the sub runs aground, which can give you a chance to react. Also, you'll run aground sooner if you have a down angle than if you're level. Of course, if you play with the "depth under keel" gauge, you don't have to worry about the charts.

If you've taken pressure hull damage, flooding seems to get worse as you go deeper. So stay as shallow as you can if you're having trouble with flooding.

The test depth of the subs is conservative by about 50%. I've taken an undamaged Balao class sub (test depth of 400 ft.) to 627 feet before being crushed and an undamaged Gato class (test depth of 300 ft.) to about 460 feet. I don't know how much this varies from ship to ship. Note that in order to go below 600 feet, you have to control the dive manually. The depth gauge won't let you set the depth below 600. Don't let the sub get too steep a down angle or else you won't be able to level off before being crushed. To tell how deep you are when below 600 feet, you have to go to the chart screen and put the cursor over the sub.

Evading subs: If an enemy sub launches a torpedo at you, go to flank speed and turn toward the torpedo so that your course is parallel to the torpedo track. Turning toward allows you to bring your forward tubes to bear on the enemy sub, and takes you closer to it for a counterattack.
Patrolling
For guesstimating distances and intercept courses, I drew a set of concentric circles (You can also download it as a JPG if your system doesn't like postscript...I'll try to make this file smaller. It's 52K now.) with markings every 15 degrees in my favorite drawing program, printed it out and photocopied it onto a transparency. You can lay this over the chart screen to estimate where a convoy will be in a few hours and to plot an intercept course. It works best if you make the largest concentric circle equal to the length of the scale on the waypoint tool.

O'Kane said (in Wahoo, I think) that putting the target at 90 or 270 degrees relative will guarantee interception if interception is possible. I use this only rarely, but it comes in handy when I get a long range radar contact without any course information from the game. This is called the normal approach course. (Normal here refers to the angle between your course and the target's bearing being 90 degrees.)

The information box that pops up on the map screen when you put your mouse over a convoy gives different information based upon how zoomed in you are. If you are at the strategic level (25, 50, and 100 miles on the scale), the dialog box gives the convoy's course. If you are on the tactical level (scale less than 25 miles), the dialog box gives the convoy's bearing. (Note that a convoy has to be sighted for it to show up on the tactical level.) The course is the compass direction the convoy is moving in; the bearing is the angle between the front of your sub and a line drawn from the center of your sub to the convoy.

As you are patrolling, watch the contact reports to find out the most heavily travelled routes. Try to place yourself where two or more routes come together. You should also pay attention to whether the convoys are merchants or capital ships. Some routes seem to be more heavily used by one or the other. If you're running low on torpedoes, you might not want to be on a route which is mostly used by capital ships, as they require more torpedoes to sink and tend to have more escorts.

If the seas are moderate or heavy, your sub will lose speed on the surface and submerged down to about 100 feet. Below 100 feet, the state of the sea no longer affects your speed. There's a small difference in speed between radar depth and periscope depth, and larger difference between periscope depth and 100 feet. The extra speed can have a major impact in the distance you travel between recharges while patrolling, and how close you can approach a ship's track submerged.
Torpedoes, Radar, and TDC
Dud torpedoes can be a real problem before the end of 1943. You can lower the number of duds by having the torpedoes strike obliquely rather than at right angles. I try to have torpedoes strike at an angle of 30-50 degrees. After 1943, duds no longer seem to be a problem.

I leave at least 5 seconds between firings because of prematures: The second torpedo will sometimes detonate in the wake of the first if they are launched with not much time between them. Setting torpedoes too shallow (less than 3 feet) seems to increase the number of premature detonations, too.

The estimate of the distance to a ship is an overestimate by quite a bit until the ship gets within a couple of thousand yards. Use the radar to get accurate distances.

The radar can also help you estimate a ship's speed. 100 yards a minute equals 3 knots. Be sure to account for your own movement...I'm working on a scenario to help show how to use the radar for TDC inputs.

The SD radar tells you how far away a plane is but not what direction. If a plane is low enough, it will appear on the SJ. Watch for small blips away from the convoy.

Use the offset dial on the TDC for ships that are turning at the time you fire. The TDC assumes the target will be moving straight ahead on the course given at the time of firing. If the target is turning, it won't make as much progress in that direction and using a non-zero offset can account for that.

A rule of thumb is that each degree of offset on the TDC gives you a spread of 17 yards for each 1000 yards to the target, assuming they will impact at 90 degrees. For example, if I launch two torpedos, one with a 0 degree offset and one with a 2 degree offset at a target 1000 yards away, the spread between them will be 34 yards. At 2000 yards, the spread will be 68 yards. There's a table at Jim Atkins's site with the exact values, but this rule of thumb will get you to within 10 yards of the table values for offsets of 5 degrees or less at a distance of 3000 yards.
(Note to the geometrically minded: This rule of thumb works because the limit of sin(x)/x [x in radians] goes to 1 for small x. The difference between the angle in radians and the sine of the angle is less than half a percent at 10 degrees, and less than half of a thousandth of a percent at 1 degree. Most of the error in my rule of thumb comes from approximating 1 degree as 0.017 radians. But 17 yards per 1000 yards per degree is easier to figure in my head than 17.5 yards and is good enough for all but long range shots. )
All this SHIII faults corrected & no Starforce to crash my DVD CD/RW----Just hope SHIV developers,can get it programed as well as SSI :arrgh!:

[JU_88]

See my sig (doesnt apply to a pacific campaign though)

[DAB]

See my sig (doesnt apply to a pacific campaign though)

:o :o :o

See post 2 http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=46279&start=0

Then see Wikipedia article on British Pacific Fleet - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Pacific_Fleet

The fleet included 17 aircraft carriers (with 300 aircraft), four battleships, 10 cruisers, 40 destroyers, 18 sloops, 13 frigates, 29 submarines, 35 minesweepers, other kinds of fighting ships, and many support vessels.

Also see books like One of our Submarines by Edward Young for details of the British Submarine Activities in the Pacific

http://books.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,11617,888559,00.html

[JU_88]

Happy to support your cause Brother! :up:

Here is my full wish list.


AIRCRAFT

Planes in SH3 were poor, they looked horrible, they were stupid and innefective in their attacks, what they lacked in abilty they made up for in numbers making the game very unrealisic.

1) Planes should not fly around on fire.

2) Planes should not collide with each other.

3) heavy aircraft like B-24s and Sunderlands should not be able to manouver like a fighter

4) Where were the torpeedo bombers?

5) Where are the rockets?

6) Why dont they straffe more often?

I hope they get some flight sim boys from the IL2 team in to do it properly for the next SH installment.


Other AI submarines

We all know about wolfpacks, but what about enemy Submarines?

Ok so they didnt play a MAJOR ASW role, but there were many sub on sub encounters, of these 24 resulted in a submarines being sunk, (that doent even count the pacific war)

Also i think Sub against sub encounters could make for some very interesting and challenging duels - providing the Ai was half decent.

Playing as the only submarine in the world (SH3) is a really frustrating and a immersion killer.

Torpeedo boats

This is a no brainer. Either have PT boats launch torpeedos or dont bother puting them in the game. I hope the devs will play PT boats knights of the sea - to see the real threat a PT boat posed to surfaced submarine.


Communiation and radio traffic

Once again, make us feel like there is a war going on out there, news bullitens, SOS signals and proper contact reports. (not just unexplained ships appearing on the nav map)
The-send-contact-report-to-get-luftwaffe-attacks was a nice feature in SH3, so build up on it as it has real potential for good game play.


Graphics

The damage model to player sub has plenty of room for visual improvement, a dented bent up conning tower, chunks of hull and deck missing, the deck guns and rigging should get blown right off!
The sub should split in two if torpedoed or badly shelled amid ships.
the nose of the submarine should get really smashed up if involved in a collision or ramming.

Friendly and enermy ports (like scapa flow) should be even more painstakingly moddelled than they already are, coasts could use more detail too, some more cliffs, rocks, houses and roads would be nice.

The world looks too samey and bland in SH3, try to create a unique appearence for certain locations, example:

The carribean should have clear blue waters, palm trees, beach huts sharks and dolphins.

The artic should have ice shelves, snow, penguins and killer whales.

Crew animation and activity was very basic, I sugest more facial expressions and body language, have them, tightening bolts, panicking, smoke cigarettes, wave to passing fiendly shipping, show signs of exaustion, fear and exitement.

Neutral ships should not be blacked out at night!!

Thats all for now.....

[JU_88]

It will never happen, but these are 45 units that should have, but never made it to an SH3 add on



VESSELS

Royal navy
T – Class submarine
S – Class submarine
O - Class submarine
Bangor class mine sweeper
Isle Class MS trawler
Town Class Destroyer
ASW Trawler
Kent class Heavy cruiser
Merchentile coversion class carrier escort
Colossus Class Aircraft carrier


Kreigsmarine
Uboat Type XIV Milk cow
Uboat Type VIID minelayer (playble)
(+All playable Uboats able to be Ai controlled)

Dutch
O 21 class submarine
Jan van Amstel mine sweeper
Admiralen class destroyer

Norway
Sleipner class Destroyer

Soviet
SC (Scuka) class submarine
Type 37 Torpeedo boat
Project 7 class destroyer
Sevastopol class Battleship

USN
Higgins 78 Motor Torpeedo boat
Vosper 72 Motor Torpeedo boat
SC4-97 submarine chaser
Yms class mine sweeper
Astabula class oiler
Bolao class submarine
Gato class submarine
Gearing class Destroyer
Baltimore Class heavy Cruiser
Iowa class Battleship
Essex class Aircraft Carrier


AIRCRAFT

Coastal Command (RAF)
Armstronq whitworth whitley
Hadley page halifax
Bristol beaufighter
Lockheed Hudson
De havilland mosquito
Supermarine Seafire

USAF/USN
B25 michell
Lockheed Hudson
Grumen Wildcat

Lufftwaffe
Junkers 88 (fighter variant)
FockWulffe 190
Dornier Do-24
Arado Ar-196

Soviet
Ilyushin Il-10
Ilyshin Il-4t

[Sniper_1]

If SH4 has more interior compartments then how about the ability to operate the switchboards in the manouvering room i.e. the dials/levers/switches are not just eye candy but can actually be manipulated. Same for the ballast and trimming controls in the control room etc..

Sniper_1.

[Marko]

i want a galley modded and have to prepare meals :lol:

[oche]

I want to see again in the dynamic campaign Photo Recon and Life guard duty missions just like in SH1!

[DAB]

A debate on SHIII reminded me of this.

Depth soundings for shallow water near commercial and (friendly) military bases. Don't have to be comprehensive, don't have to be every few inches (every couple of miles will make things interesting), their could even by mistakes on the chart like in real life - but I would be keen to see them.

[CB..]

i think it's allways worth re-iterating the desire for fully implemented wolfpacks--it may well be that as pointed out- that the devs allreadys know folks in general want these things but this hasn't prevented them from releasing games without any genuine attempt to implement good AI wolfpacks in the past---in fact there hasn't been working wolfpacks since AOTD really which tells a tale--

i reckon really well implemented wolfpacks are one of the features for single play that would attract new players and keep them interested for longer---ie those not normally interested in subsims generaly--

as they are exciting unpredictable and a genuinely relevant and vibrant gameplay element--

given a full and heavily worked implementation wolfpacks and or solitary AI subs would add enourmously to the appeal of the game--

in SH3 we have a system of contacts reports--
if for example in SH4 we only recieved contact reports if an actual AI submarine had in fact located a convoy and transmitted the report this would greatly add to the atmosphere---
especailly if this submarine was named as ie- U-123 for example--
and it was possible to look up who was commanding that submarine and which flottilla he was based in--(or this info was displayed on the map or given in the message)

each flottilla has a realistic number of submarines to send out and contact reports are only recieved if one or more of those subs makes contact--

if one of those subs is attacked and sunk then you will stand less chance of recieving contact reports (there being one less sub roaming the ocean)

you will allso recieve notice that U-123 has not returned from it's patrol and is listed missing-- and so on--

new subs and commanders becoming available in a realistic manner over time--

this approach even without actual wolfpack attacks would add an element of genuine roleplay and a tactical dynamic which would give a sense of a war being fought and lost at sea---

add in the ability of thes AI subs to actually attack and sink shipping and react to contact reports them selves----heading to wards reported convoys in the same way you as the player will do--would make for immersive and exciting gameplay---knowing the names and commanders of those AI subs and knowing that you as the player are reliant upon them for all your contact reports --(and they on you) creates the sort of scenario that may attract new players without disatisying older ones--

being able to view the patrol results of those AI commanders (at least those in your flottilla anyway) creates a sense of involvement and loyalty for your flotilla and AI comrades--

for the realism options the number of AI subs per flottilla (and there fore chances of getting a steady flow of contact reports etc) could on a slider allowing far more AI subs than realistic for fun players and realistic numbers or less for hard core players--

the problem often with subsims and non enthusiast players is not enougth happens to hold their interest--use-ing AI subs and wolfpacks with abit of thought could be used to "fill in the gaps" in the gameplay and enhance greatly the sense of "realism" and difficulty at the same time---

it would be nice for RPG fans allso to have a brief moment of sadness if U-123 for example--gets sunk--especailly if he provided the contact reports on the convoy you have just attacked and even got one or two ships himself---you could allso find your self tasked with searching for survivors if you are close by--enabling you to rescue a "friend" or fellow flottilla member---or tow or attempt to tow a crippled sub back to base --

lots more than this could be done ----there's more to wolfpacks and AI subs than just an ego prop for the player or a realism option--

(i know this is Pacific wish list but the same principles apply to AI subs generaly)

generaly speaking again good AI routines are the backbone of sims really----even a half baked generic first person shooter can be transformed to legendary heights by the time spent on coding the AI behaviour--an excellent game with poor AI is allways going to suffer---beacuse it quickly becomes apparent that the AI IS THE GAME--should be bl**ding obviuos really--i know the old argument regarding the fear of making the AI too good --but Chess programs have solved this issue an age ago---simply instruct the AI to make mistakes--as they do with chess computers---or give them dodgy sensors---make the AI as human as possible---(that's what it's suppossed to be simulating after all) and in a subsim the tussle between you and the DD's is at least 60% of the gameplay--if that becomes predictable it becomes tedious--the more life the AI has both friendly and enemy the more fun the game will be--
bring those Ai sub/DD commanders to life give them character and relvance to the game and player---make them breath some soul into events--make the player care about them--etc---

it is only a game at the end of the day but if you don't care about it then what's the sense--




and dang it allso bowt time subsims got flightsim quality weather and sky scapes--

[Cipher]

:rock:

I would like to see;

1. Crew populating enemy ships, abandoning ship when its sinking, swimming in the water after it sinks and floating casualties above and below the surface after a sinking.

2. More ship debris that is also more persistent after a sinking.

3. Some underwater terrain details (mountain ranges, vegetation, coral formations, or even old shipwrecks occasionally would break up the boring flat sandy bottom in SH3)

4. No instant death when sunk and being able to watch your sub sink/break up after it does sink. Or at least see this in the event of a castostropic kill being suffered.

5. Missions that dont involve going to a grid and waiting for 24 hours to elapse so that you can get down to really hunting the enemy. Being able to have a follow-on mission that results from activities in the area would make a player feel more involved with the war.

6. More detailed ports with sea traffic for all sides. Something to do once you manage to sneak into the enemy port would be nice.

7. Refueling/rearming ships (aka Milk cows), enemy and friendly subs to fight or communicate with (even if the communication were just basic). These dont have to be wolfpacks, I personally dont care about that, but having another friendly sub (you can communicate with) nearby help with an attack would be a refreshing change every once in awhile.

8. More realistic ship sinkings (ex: a ship sinks aft first and the bow breaks off above the water from the stress, a ship rolls over and explodes, etc) and no "bouncing" on the flat sandy bottom when they do sink.

9. More realistic fire/smoke (w/o modding), and secondary explosions.

10. More interaction with the interior of the sub if thats what the player wants to do. More to do in the sub rather than just compress time if you want a more realistic patrol. The ability to improve crew efficiency through battle drills while at sea would be cool and at the same time, not something a player would HAVE to do if they didnt want to.

11. A default watch system that can be modified by the player if desired to eliminate crew micromanagement.

12. A renown system that focused on your contribution as a warship to the war effort rather than just tonnage alone. Sinking a carrier would be worth 20 merchants I would think. Rescue of downed pilots, retreving special forces performing missions on Japanese held islands (mine clearing, etc) should also count towards renown. Not just going to and sitting in your assigned grid for 24 hours to get points.

[VON_CAPO]

Indispensable!!!!
Type XIV "MILK COW"
And associated missions for them.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8837/planstypxiv7fi.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=planstypxiv7fi.jpg)

Also a AI coordination for wolfpacks in single player and campaign. :yep: :yep: :yep:

The Luftwaffe must explore the ocean too.

Fluid communication by radio (with ability by the AI to answer something intelligent, not non sense phrases like now), the morse code BACK!!!

A accurate map with the current deep.

Get lost in the ocean because my navigator can not see the sun and the stars when it is stormy. :yep: :yep: :yep:

A device to transmit light signals.

A pistol to fire flares.

SNOW and ice in winter!!!

Life boats, debris and survivors swimming. With the capacity to fire flares when they spot some vessel.

I want that the rain snow and smoke match the direction and intensity of the wind.

Big warships should engage in a fight beyond the horizon. It is not real at all the 8 km limit.

Ability to fill independent ballast tanks and fine regulation of the dive planes.

Ability to choose when I want to use diesels or electric engines.

A realistic damage control, because the current repair stuff to the light speed.

A watch officer and company awaken, because the current is blind, deaf and may be in drugs and drunk.

The possibility to finish my 1945's patrol in some Argentinian harbour. Somebody should be there to hand over my boot.

Traffic in the southern oceans too.

[CB..]

Indispensable!!!!
Type XIV "MILK COW"
And associated missions for them.


Ability to fill independent ballast tanks and fine regulation of the dive planes.


A realistic damage control, because the current repair stuff to the light speed.



i agree!! minelayers allso--folks really like their harbour penetration missions----with a minelayer they can have as many as they like (with a twist) and it remains actually relatively realistic---


i'd really like to see some sort of simple manual ballast tank management---(it cannot be more complicated than manually working out a firing soloution for the torps for hecks sake--tho what it's like real world i wouldn't like to guess of course lol)
but three simple slider bars one for each ballast tank allowing you to fill or empty them as required would allow for quick and relatively easy trim corrections diving surfacing etc etc--and would i'm sure be very satisfying all round to use once you got used to it--dunno about the realism thing ( i get fed up of realism "issues" any way) as your a commander and wouldn't have to operate the ballast your self ( :zzz: ) but a simplified system would just be interesting and fun---(yay!!! i remember fun- i read about it once :arrgh!: ) there's so little to actually do in a ww2 subsim and so much time to do it in that any immersive fun element would add to the fun of the game---during DD attacks and evasion , manualy operating the ballast tanks (with a simple set up like three sliders as mentioned - or similar i dunno lol) would add interest to the thing--


agree on the damage control system too-- there's a world of fun to be had there ---i can't see any reason why this couldn't become a major part of the gameplay (it certainly OUGHT to be a major part of the gameplay!!!)
i can't see why this couldn't be expanded to allmost a "mini game" status in itself--give the player some activity to perform--even if it's only moving to a valve and struggling to tighten it up to slow the flooding etc--what ever is done with it--it certainly is a whole world in it self that's allways completely neglected--do we have any spare light bulbs or do we have to continue on in complete darkness lol---ahem---oh heck i remember a commander is exempt from light bulb realism lol--
the worlds your oyster for gameplay opportunitys there i reckon (with a bit of imagination)

i'd allso like to see a advanced RPG element incorporated by including the officers mess in the available sub compartments---enabling the player to sit with his officers during meal times and talk with them--a simple old fashioned RPG/adventure game semi-dynamic conversation system would allow you to build up a picture of who your officers are and how they feel think about things--(very old hat code wise and not difficult to include AFAIK)..
come on Devs ---have some fun with the thing--

[TDK1044]

I would really like to be able to set the depth of the sub using the number pad. This would allow for more precision than clicking on the dial.

[Harry Buttle]

an ability to move more than one sailor at a time, ie draw a box around them or hold down the CTRL key and click on several, then click where you want them to go.

[Tom Jefferson Jones]

It never ceases to amaze me how many ppl never read ALL of some1's post. They see a few lines that get them upset or disagree with and then go off.

I ask you, with todays PC's (and keep in mind that by the time this game comes out more advances in PC tech WILL have taken place), is there any need to limit a game to 2 sides only that a player can use or just 1 side (in the case of SH3/4) ?

Or is there any need to limit a player to the type of Units a player can use in that given side ?

The answer is of course NO. So why should we accept such a limiting factor ?

You're not talking about technology you're talking about content - all the technological advances in the world aren't going to make it easier for the SH4 team to implement multiple playable navies,

Its a much better idea to concentrate on a single playable faction and execute it with depth and detail - creating two playable factions while maintaining immersion and historical detail would be a task we can't expect any reasonably sized dev team to accomplish.

Faster computers make for better water, better AI, and more populated oceans and harbors - they don't automatically allow you to make battlecruiser 3000AD style 'lets simulate EVERYTHING' type products.

If anything better computers make additional content *more* difficult to implement due to the sheer amount of texturing, V.O. and gameplay mechanics present in a contemporary sim.

You're asking the SH4 team to make 2 games. Are you really sure 1 wouldn't be enough?

[canimo]

A QUICK RELOAD IS A MUST !!!


There´s no point on having to save / exit / reload the same game again just cause you have messed a sneaky attack on a convoy !!


It takes hours !!! :down:

[Harry Buttle]

Faster computers make for better water, better AI, and more populated oceans and harbors - they don't automatically allow you to make battlecruiser 3000AD style 'lets simulate EVERYTHING' type products.



an excellent point, and well made.

I would just add, have a good look at the reviews of BC3000 and tell me that you want to see SHIV done that badly.

[Dave Kay]

Sorry, but historically speaking, I just can't get enthused about a Pacific sub game because I believe it would tend to become quite boring. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the US sub fleet attack mainly Japanese merchants? Supply ships? I mean, encounters between the Japanese Imperial Navy and US subs was historically nil. And for another realistic/historic aspect; these same US subs travelled loooooong lonely distances just to accomplish that... even the Jap subs rarely engaged US warships.

The Pacific theater was a fast moving, aircraft dominated type of exchange and compared to the North Atlantic, subs played a relatively small part. Carriers were the deciding factor in the Pacific.

Love SHIII but I've always thought it was historically incomplete because the Devs neglected the most important and decisive development of the Atlantic sea-war---- WOLFPACKS!

And I digress...

[LukeFF]

The Pacific theater was a fast moving, aircraft dominated type of exchange and compared to the North Atlantic, subs played a relatively small part. Carriers were the deciding factor in the Pacific.

You really can't be serious when you say that. American subs alone, though they counted for about 3% of the Navy's warships, sank about half of the Japanese merchant fleet.

Yep, really small part them subs played. :roll:

[Drebbel]

To keep most wish lists in one place I copy and pasted Safe-Keeper his wish list down here:

Suggestions for future SILENT HUNTER III patches.

Will add illustrations shortly.

• A way to quickly set time compression to 1 or 1024. For example:
o Shift+NumPad -: Sets time compression to 1.
o Shift+NumPad +: Sets time compression to 1024.

• The “are you sure?� window should only be shown when you’ve actually made a change. For example, if you enter the Realism settings screen and leave it without changing anything, I don’t believe there’s a reason for the “Are you sure� window to be shown. Likewise, if you’re ordering a part or crewman for your u-boat and you either already have it or can’t afford it, it doesn’t matter if you are sure you want it or not. In my opinion, you should simply see “Not enough renown� or “You already have it!� – there’s no reason to confirm a choice you can’t make in the first place.

• When you reach your grid, a note is scribbled on your note pad showing how long you need to patrol it to accomplish your objective:

• An option is added that lets you label the marks placed on the map:

• Two types of marks are included: A �high-priority mark� as well as a �normal mark�. �High-priority marks� are not removed by the �Clear Map� feature, and would be useful for putting down marks you might want to stay for the whole mission – for example, I might want to label the grid zone I’m ordered to patrol so that I won’t have to look it up again in the objectives screen if I forget it.

• Macro support, although that’s probably too late to build in now. For example, let’s say you want a quick way to se Particle Density to 0 during a high-lag phase of the game. Start a macro recording, go into options and set the density to 0, and save the macro. Assign it to a new icon (concept shot below) or hot key, and you’ve got yourself a new short cut.

• A �captain’s note book� where you can scribble down whatever you need to remember. Your notes are labelled by time and date and remain for the rest of your career. Not that important, but it would be useful and fun at times.

• A hot key to let you cycle trough radio messages while in the message record (‘m’ key).

• The ability to pre-program courses for the crew to follow, for then to use them in-game whenever you want to. As long as a course has been “verified� (ie. You’ve run trough it once without running aground), you can use it later without time compression being locked to 1:1 while in shallow waters (which gets annoying when exiting certain ports).

• Actual destinations for all freighter traffic. As it is, they seem to be moving around without a visible purpose. I’d love it if you saw them dock, stay in port for a while, and then leave again for another port.

• “Collision courses� for warships of different nations, so that for example British and German warships actually meet each others and exchange fire.

• Radio message shown when friendly aircraft are en-route to a target within your line of sight. Something like “air support on the way�.

• Some sort of “Hall of Fame� showing all careers ever undertaken by every single profile, showing things like total renown for all patrols, total tonnage sunk, types of ships and aircraft destroyed, total number of crewmen injured and dead, average realism setting, etc.

• Each realism setting has a percentage value next to it showing how much the realism value is altered by checking the check-boxes. Example:

• A “match speed with target� order. It’s hard to stay in formation with a friendly freighter you’re providing AA defence for when you move at eight knots and it moves at six knots.

• A “follow target� order that makes your sub maintain your present distance to the target. Useful when escorting freighters or when following a commerce raider into action.

• When selecting friendly (blue) ships, you see lines going from them to their way points, showing where they’re headed.

• Renown given for protecting friendly ships (staying near a friendly merchant far from your home port for an extended period of time, for example).

• If you hit Num-Pad Delete to remove the game’s UI and then access the navigation map, there’s a big gray empty area in the bottom of the screen (as shown below). Can it perhaps be filled by something?

• An option to “disengage from target�, allowing you to go to the map screen and increase time compression to more than 32 even if a ship is within your sight.

• Can you add a way to put torpedoes “on safety�? Sometimes when trying to hit NumPad + I accidentaly hit NumPad Enter instead, which causes the ****ed torpedo to fire itself. One shot wasted, one angry player. At least disable torpedo firing on time compression values of more than 32.

• If there’s only one target available for a torpedo attack, can’t the weapon officer “lock onto it� automatically? I’m tired of lining up a target perfectly and then having the whole thing go down the drain because my torpedoes “do their own thing�.
Yes, I know the last two are the results of my clumsiness, not of the game itself. Bah.

• Add a note in the sub management screen explaining what those numbers next to the torpedoes are:

• Some notes about the flotillas at the Apply for Transfer screen:

• Your experience is shown during a career, including how much more experience you need to be promoted.

• A tool-tip description of each qualification and medal. For example, “the war badge is given when so and so� and “the medic does this and that�.

• I was attacked by fighters the other day and several of my crewmen were wounded. However, upon return to dock they didn’t get the Wound Badge. I believe this is because they were healed before they got back to port. Shouldn’t everyone who gets wounded get a Wound Badge?

• When assigning a promotion, qualification, or medal, can’t you make it so that you only have to choose the crewman and then double-click the thing to give him? It’s not exactly hard labour to drag-and-drop a medal onto the description of your crewmen, but it’d be more convenient that way.

• An option to change the game’s colour tones to “sepia� (brown tones) or grey-scale, and to add or remove noise.

[Safe-Keeper]

The best one is ironically the one I didn't post myself: The game plotting courses from Point A to Point B for you.

It's in every single RTS game out there, so why not for SH IV, even though you're only controlling one sub, not a whole fleet of them?

Saving courses would be so sweet, too. Imagine having plotted an elaborate course from Wilhelmshaven to the west coast of Ireland. Then, when you reach Scapa Flow, you get a report on a task force north of you. So you save the course as "Preset1", clear it, and plot an interception course to the task force. After surviving the task force encounter, you load "Preset1", check to see if it needs correcting to avoid landmasses, and sit back. Same with targets an target info: Let's say you're attacking a convoy and have 95% of the information needed to torpedo a T3 Tanker. Then, suddenly, you notice a destroyer that can be torpedoed if you act really fast. You save the T3 info as "T3", clear the notepad, gather info on and sink the destroyer, and load up "T3", finishing the notepad info gathering and torpedoing it, too.

But by all means, let's stick to the things listed so far. Random other suggestions are for the wish-list threads.

And just as a side note, Battlecruiser Millenium Gold Edition was sweet. Tragically, my dog bit the disk in two and I haven't found another copy in stores yet (and no, I'm not illegally downloading a copy :arrgh!: !).

But yes, I'd love that. Every ship in the sea had an agenda beyond just going from Point A to Point B and vanishing in thin air once it reached Point B. I'd love for every ship generated to actually have a task to perform. For example, let's say the game generates a tanker in Sydney, Australia. The tanker's job is to ship oil to New Zealand (don't bug me with historical correctness here, I'm just making things up :P ). So it sits still at a pier in Sydney for a day (if the port is full, it either waits for a spot or docks on the outside of an already docked ship), after which it has its cargo changed to "Oil", making it more volatile (and also weighting it down so that it sits lower in the water and is slower, which is noticeable to the player), and it either sets off for NZ straight away, or waits with other ships bound for NZ until warships are made available, then forms an escorted convoy and heads out. Once at NZ, it unloads its oil (animations aren't needed for this, I guess) and sets back for Australia. If it's damaged, it's parked in a dry dock or something.

New ships are generated every time you start a patrol, and if they start thinning out during a mission, new ones "spawn" where the player can't see them (I hate seeing ships pop out of nowhere and Disapparating without a trace - this is Silent Hunter IV, not Harry Potter and the Gato Sub Skipper of Azkaban).

I don't need variables for amount of fuel and other supplies at port, seamen in each navy, etc. like there was in BCM (you could actually starve out a space station by destroying all the freighters going to it! :D ), but have each ship have a purpose in life beyond getting somewhere and then disappearing. :|\

[giganoni]

Well, many of the things mentioned before are what I want, but just some ideas.


Don't make a new engine, I don't care if SHIV looks only a tiny bit better than III. Eye candy is not important to me, I want content. Less time working on the engine means more content, in theory anyway I hope!

As people have mentioned, SHIII campaign got really boring, but due to the nature of the war, it is understandable. Better crew management (fatigue!) would also make things easier which I'm sure they will work on.

So, diverse missions would be nice. Orders based off of ULTRAJapan intercepts might be nice for US side. Downed flyers... well both sides uses their subs for this, but I don't know how fun it would be. If Japan is included, transport/evacuation missions with reduced torpedeos and avoiding ASW might prove to be hair raising missions.

Reason I wanted only minor engine improvements is to be able to include Japan. I wouldn't mind it being like Pacific Fighters as some people have mentioned. Just adding the KD6/KD7 and RO-35 class would be enough for me.

But, this is a wish list after all, so hopefully at least mods can come out with a released SDK

[Joe S]

I would like to see the following
1) a mission builder like the one we had in the original Silent Hunter, where you can control date, time, emeny AI, composition of opposing forces, etc.
2) abilitly to drop map notes as in SHII
3)more usefull reports from soundman
4) ability to see the enemy at realistic distance, including smoke on the horizon, masts over the horizon,etc, for realistic tracking .
5) Forget the crew management
6)sunset,sunrise moonrise,info available onboard, as in Silent Hunter
7)Accuratly modeld TDC with correct manual fire control
8)A target book with indexes like the one in Silent Hunter so you can find what you want without paging through the whole book, Better yet , a printed TArget manual
9)more sound effects and better sound effects, including audio reports from crew
10)more meaningfull radio traffic
11)ability to "mark" a target on the map which will show the target ID and time of observation, similating the work of the fire control party
12)instruments that are legible
Thats all I can think of right now, Joe S

[THE_MASK]

The minimum specs for SH4 have to be the recommended specs for SH3 . Lets go forward with realistic graphics for the crew . There is nothing wrong with the exterior view but the crew in SH3 is pathetic . Lets get out of the dark ages with the graphics for a start .

[THE_MASK]

Multiplayer . OK , first of all how about say more than 1 person operating the sub as an option . 1 could be captain , 2 could be hydrophones , 3 watch officer etc . Obviously your character would have to be able to move around and interact with other people . Just like battlefield 2 but instead of running around on a field you are running around on a sub . Sounds awesome to me . What do you think ?

[U-104]

{Simple.

I want to be able to control both topside and sub vessels. All vessels playable. If you can do that, there should be no reason to limit it to the Pacific only and you could play as either an Allied or Axis commander, German or Japanese or American or British or Russian, anyone.

Creating new ship/sub mods via a reasonable SDK released to the public.

A more serious mission/campaign editor and much more complex scripting abilities. Coming from the OFP community, SH3 is totally lacking in this area.

And that's all.

One last thing.

I'd love to have player-controllable planes, simple flightsim types, that don't require you to be a brilliant FS pilot to fly them.}
You're wishing for the perfet game aren't you? :)

[Trout]

BEST IDEA?

Read below. SH3 was on the right track with the 3d interior, but they really need to go this next step if we are to have a fully modeled 3d boat (all compartments).

The goal should be to minimize the necessity for a 2d interface, which only serves to ruin your immersion in the game, and to get rid of "quick jump" options that do the same.

Finally, we need to come up with REASONS for a captain to occasionally vist the fore and aft torp rooms, the wardroom ect.


"Heightened experience of being inside the submarine."

This one is most important to me. I really appreciate being able to stand in the conning tower and sit on my (captains) bed etc etc. However, continuity seems to pass me completely by as the screen flicks into each compartment. I've seen quite a few people mention the ability to roam freely about the sub, however i can't help but feel this would detract from gameplay by introducing a first-person style edge.

What i propose would be like a kind of camera waypoint "track" between compartments. For instance - if i am in the command room and i want to get to the bridge, then i press F4 and the camera moves towards the hatch and up the ladder to the conning tower, and from there up onto the bridge. This is a feature that i have craved from the start after being initially a little dissapointed at the internal navigation dynamics.

Also, when i bring up the navigation map, it feels like i am viewing the map from outside of the sub (if you know what i mean). Using the above idea it would be nice to have the camera zoom into it to try and establish that i am still in the sub and i'm looking at a real chart, rather than a planning screen in "non-space".

On top of all this, I completely agree with what everyone else has proposed for the sub interior. More compartments (even just to explore) and more crew interacting with their tin-can environment.

[THE_MASK]

I would like the option of single player tonnage to be recorded online as you play so that you have a patrol goal and final career goal that always is changing .

[Safe-Keeper]

Finally, we need to come up with REASONS for a captain to occasionally vist the fore and aft torp rooms, the wardroom ect.

He needs to give the correspondent a tour of the ship :P .

[Safe-Keeper]

Accessibility features.

Subtitles for everything.
Option textures for colour-blind players.
Slow-motion option (perhaps as a realism setting?).
Ability to give orders during pause mode (realism setting?) (http://ee.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=11,36843,,all).
Screen flashes red/white when you get hit, when a warship is spotted and you're already at 1x time compression, or when a shell flashes past you.


S-K

[DeepSix]

I would like to see a "bottom the boat" command. Also want to add my support for the "watch" style of crew management, as well as user-selectable battle station defaults (i.e., click "Battle Stations" and the appropriate compartments all fill up or something like that -- no more of this carpal tunnel syndrome clicking on everything).

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Well, some of what I'm about to say is going to probably just echo what has already been written.

1) Improving the crew management system from how it works in SHIII. Being able to assign watches and default battle stations would be nice. How about the ability to order drills which might improve crew efficiency for specific tasks? Though I don't think most players would forego that x1024 time compression going to their patrol area to drill.

1.5) Some sort of crew morale might be interesting, as they somewhat function as automatons in SHIII. For example, maybe your boat has been out on patrol for a long time, and your boys are feeling fatigued/depressed/whatever. Perhaps you can anchor your boat near an atoll and allow the crew a chance of recreational swimming/day at the beach, and morale improves. Of course, if an enemy patrol aircraft finds you under such circumstances, you could be seriously screwed. Crew members could also have a regard/popularity w/the rest of the crew or certain segments of the crew, and if they get killed/injured, there could be a weighted response on the rest of the crew dependent on that regard/popularity. Who knows, if a hated officer were killed, morale might even improve!!! You might also have to spend renown transferring out an unpopular crewmember to bring in one who "plays nice." Also, as a skipper, you could speak to crewmembers and try to improve morale, that way, though that's starting to be more of an RPG rather than a sim

2) I would like to be able to play the Japanese, and the ability to fly the Glen floatplane, etc., in certain missions. I know this will almost certainly fall out of the scope of a subsim, but I think it would be a nifty thing to be able to do. Other nationalities would be nice besides the U.S. The Dutch would pose some interesting challenges, for example.

3) the ability to give simple orders like "shadow ship A at current distance/bearing/whatever," etc., or "If event A happens, react w/plan B" Not necessary by a long shot, but I don't think it would be a bad move. I can tell you, trying to shadow a convoy in rough seas at 32x while waiting for night can be a bitch!!!! And an immediate crash dive at the first spotting of an aircraft would be really good w/out having to spend time using the interface. Well, unless you're in shallow water, in which case it might be a Bad Move.

I like the idea to be able explore more compartments of the ship, and if a crewmember is off watch he'll be in his bunk, seeing the number of torpedoes go down as they're used, etc. I don't think that's entirely necessary, however. Wouldn't it be funny to go into the head and find an issue of Stars & Stripes/Volkischer Beobachter to read?
:cool:

Are there default tracks that can be played on the gramophone? I haven't explored that. My blazing the Grateful Dead or Jimi Hendrix is probably a tad anachronistic, and the Andrews Sisters or Duke Wellington might be more appropriate. Though I suppose it could be argued that Pink Floyd's "Echoes" might be even MORE appropriate!!!

I'll add more if I think of anything.

[gawaing]

i only need one thing:

the posibility that use the bouth sides, subs for american navy and surface ships for japaneses. Like destroyer comand but inverse.

[nmidlet]

what i would like to see is a full 3D first person perspective of the sub so that I can see every thing that is going on and to get up the coning tower there is no icon I have to actually move there thorough the hatch etc

also I would like the option to let the crew of the ships in to life boats ets ( and then for fun machine gun them ) add a bit or realism.
:ping: :ping:

[joerd9]

I want "Smoke columns on the horizon bearing xxx degrees". That's how convoys were spotted, not by making visual contact with one of the outer picket escorts. It's a simple feature AoD (and even the 80's Sub Battle Simulator :D ) had but the SH-team somehow forgot about in all three parts afaik... :(

[Torvald Von Mansee]

also I would like the option to let the crew of the ships in to life boats ets ( and then for fun machine gun them ) add a bit or realism.
:ping: :ping:

Yes, that is a complaint I've heard from numerous quarters: "Hey!! Why can't I machinegun the survivors in the water!?!?!"

[Safe-Keeper]

Who knows, if a hated officer were killed, morale might even improve!!! You might also have to spend renown transferring out an unpopular crewmember to bring in one who "plays nice."
Qualifications:
• Anti-Air
• Medic
• Does not cheat at Poker
;)

also I would like the option to let the crew of the ships in to life boats ets ( and then for fun machine gun them ) add a bit or realism.
Parachutes, life boats, and men jumping overboard. If you could have people pour out of the ship's innards, scrambling to man AA/deck guns, etc., I'd be in Heaven. Especially if you coupled that with yells and alarms and so on.

[kys2000]

1. Improve AI's AI
1.1. improve depth charge accuracy of DD
1.2. revise turnaround radius of DD after bypassing the sub(which should require more distance)
1.3. increase closing speed of DD
1.4. improve search capability of DD against Sub

2. Maneuverability
2.1. multiple players on same sub
2.2. adjustable game difficulty(should be sigificant difference between Easy and Real) for players at various level
2.3. full career design feature in misson editor(not just single or online missions)
2.4. encrypted config.ini for all ships and subs so that no easy parameter cracking or modification
2.5. NO icon or label displayed on map at Real-class(100%) difficulty, all bearing math/config should be completed by player with his own efforts, i.e., full manual approach(using gyroscope)
2.6. more manual operability for Radar

3. Graphics
3.1. add 3D interface for other cabins, and motion of crews
3.2. more crew members can be dragged to be standing on to the bridge to create better moods(especially during leaving and/or returning base)
3.3. add Shift+F2 feature on the bridge so that crew members can move freely
3.4. add crew member moving up and down of periscope real-time at 3D commanding room
3.5. for F3 interface, background of the commanding room and crew members in the room should be moving when the periscope is rotating, while a Torpedo Control panel can be added to fire torpedos(just like SH2)
3.6. improve texture details of all ships
3.7. add more types of history ships
3.8. add more 3D motions for the crew members
3.9. more cloud evolution at different weathers, not just two texture files for every situation
3.10. improve water spray effects, especially for water column effects of gun fire
3.11. improve sea water color diversity for different oceans and depth levels.

4. Sound Effects
4.1 improve sound effect diversity, not just like one single gun fire sound for all guns. (so depth charge detonation should hear different above and under sea
4.2 add emotional tone feature for dialogues, not just like recitation

5. controllable DDs are MOST MOST MOST wanted!!!!!!!!!!!

[wolfrem]

First of all, I haven't played SH3. (I read some of the horror stories with the copy protection and am not willing to go there.)

With that being said, I agree with most of the comments and suggestions listed in this topic. Here is my two cents worth.

1) In SH1 when you left port you started at your patrol sector. In SH2 you were forced to sail the entire journey to your patrol sector and back. Time Compression was worthless because it was usually reset to one instantly by a message or an event no matter how trivial it was. So to appease all gamers, I would like to see this as a settable option in the Options Menu.

2) Almost every post has mentioned Crew Management. For me personally, micro managing the crew would make SH4 tedious work and a boring game. Again this should be selectable in the Options Menu, manual or automatic, along with the other aforementioned improvements. In either mode, however, the crew gaining proficiency and rising from green to expert, thus gaining bonuses (such as faster torpedo loads, damage repair, etc..) would be great, and realistic.

3) If I recall correctly, in SH1 torpedo malfunctions were a selectable option. If turned on, in SH4, then DD depth charging should be set to shallow for the beginning of a campaign and related skirmish battles. This would provide game balance AND historical accuracy. (Unless you start with an old S class with a test depth of 200 ft.)

4) Given the option to play either side would be a very nice feature that the SH series has unfortunately lacked. And to save time in modelling ships and aircraft, there are already some very detailed models in the modding community (unless copyright issues are a problem).

Finally, modability by players is a MUST. The easier a game is to mod the longer the game maintains life. Dynamic Campaigns are fine but even they have limits.

[DeepSix]

At the risk of repeating something buried in the first seven pages here (or in one of the other threads - LOTS of suggestions/wishes to read, which is good! :up: ):

I'd like to have fewer progress bars. In SH3 you work through

1. checking disc
2. Ubisoft splash screen
3. video
4. Silent Hunter III splash screen with progress bar
*MENU*
5. Yet another splash and progress bar
6. And finally, the one that really makes me grind my teeth: "Initializing dot dot dot"

All this "fixin' to get ready to start" - I realize that some form of what's represented by numbers 1, 2, and 3 above is going to be a given, but for the rest I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to reduce the wait time.

Yeah, I'm being picky. :D

One thing that would help reduce wait time would be - and I KNOW this has been asked for - to improve the save/load. If you could delete all your old saves without losing your career it would speed things up as it looks like there'd be less to read into memory.

I'm not a programmer so this request may be unrealistic, but hopefully it's not. If it is, I can live with the progress bars. :D

[seadevil]

I hope the deckgun wil be improved,its now not good working,sh1 had a good working one,the grapics wehre not nice but the gun wordked good you good see the distance where you are shooting on,in 2 and 3 its a gun but you can not manuali put it on 100mtrs its a gambling to set the hight on the right position.

2e the sh1 had a engine room with the possible manual take over of the batterie looding and the blow ballast was good to see the,
you good leading a batterie and let the boot run on one engine,thats maked it real to work wtih i hope the screen of the engine room of sh1 wil be integrated.
3

manualie on the elketrik driving is not possible ,in real thats no rpoblem , a believe some boots took the harbour on the elektrik engines,thas a smal thing but make the game more adventured,above water the elektrikengines .

greetings pieter

[U-Dog]

1. SH3 Commander features built in the game. With a Pacific flavor of course. (Better yet bring the fella who created that on board- sure he has more good ideas than i do.)

2. Make it a bit easier to include my own pic for Capt and officers.

Photos could help bring our Captains alive IMHO

3. British subs-- atleast - (I realize Japanese subs means implementing completely different shipping routes, escorts groups etc. S dont think we'll get that. )

4. The already mentioned triggers and special missions like photo recon etc. Like in Silent Hunter.

5. Game options that provide more challenge- for example- what if the Japanese had improved their ASW tactics or technology?
(With out this veteran SH3 players will likely find it boring evading Japanese ASW forces.)

6. um..could it run OK on my P4 1.7 so I dont have to choose between a new computer + SH4 and my wife.



:hmm:

Then again if it's a GREAT game i could wait 'til this old computer putters out and then play it...

7. MODDER FRIENDLY for whatever can't be added. Will keep the game out of the barain bin as many of these modders are VERY knowledgable and darn good.

8. Only one yamato etc. SH3 allows you to snk the RN over and over again, kinda kils the immersion factor.


:ping:

[rls669]

One thing I don't want: one second of dev time spent on making a pseudo-FPS full 3d navigable interior if it means less time working on the core simulation and fixing bugs.

One more thing I don't want: attempting to be hardcore by not letting the player save and exit whenever desired. I don't care if I'm on the surface with a DD bearing down on me, I have other obligations and other uses for my computer. It's damn frustrating that I have to ALT-F4 and risk SH3's famous career-corrupting bugs because the game doesn't give me the option to exit if I'm engaged. On the same note, if I want to reload and play an old save that should be my decision, not the devs. Auto-deleting all later saves is just arrogant stupidity.

Also, no 4-engine bombers doing lob-toss attacks like modern high-performance attack planes with computerized targeting systems. :)

Now what I would like: better crew management, better fatigue modelling, morale, ability to set watches or have the XO manage the crew. Anything that makes the crew more individual and not just a collection of qualifications and XP would be nice.

Better damage modelling for all game objects. Sub damage affecting noise and drag. Better sonar/hydrophone performance modelling with thermal layers. None of this being detected because the DD is "elite" and you're a certain distance away under conditions you'd never be detected in IRL.

More interesting missions. A real dynamic campaign. Random != dynamic. Response to the player's actions = dynamic. I don't need to singlehandedly win the war, but if I sink a convoy carrying vital fuel and aircraft parts it would make sense to have enemy air activity hampered for a while. If I sink a bunch of escorts it would make sense to have less escorts available in the area until they can be replaced. Likewise, if I fail to sink the enemy they should be able to interdict my supplies and make fewer upgrades or reloads available. The standards for what constitutes a dynamic campaign seems to have dropped a long way since the days of Falcon and EF2000.

[BM357_Fuse]

S~ Gents!

New member here, I have SH3 and just learned about the plans for SH4! Lots of good idea's here after reading all these post :sunny: For my part, I would love many of these to be incorporated into SH4, and be able to splash through water in 1st person mode walking and runing through a visually damaged sub, and interacting with the crew, again visably seen doing necessary damage control repairs :ping:

[majama]

I need mostly one option easy to do: in post multiplayer mission raport should be signature who edning as life and who is dead

[Phylacista]

1. radio traffic with impact: you get assigned to a new patrol grid, you will be ordered to attack a carrier group recently discovered by planes, orderered RTB when your status report indicates your boat is a pile of rubbish..

Thats what I think when I hear the words "dynamic campaign."

Be more agrressive :nope:


2. shift based crew management the way I described here: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=51974

3. realistic WO i.e. he takes his time plotting target solution and it isnt accurate (depending on his experience, morale, tireness, talent and enviromental conditions)


4. things changing while on patrol: crew growing beards, staining clothes, broken things after DC attack (like the pic on the Nav table), food disappearing - and a better damage model of the boat. I like to see a hole in the hull if i was struck by a bomb.

Thats about it. The rest will be changeable with mods so it suits me like SH3. What brings me to:

5. Game must be moddable!

[DeepSix]

1. radio traffic with impact: you get assigned to a new patrol grid, you will be ordered to attack a carrier group recently discovered by planes, orderered RTB when your status report indicates your boat is a pile of rubbish.
...

I also would like radio traffic that affects the outcome of the patrol/career/game. U.S. subs weren't assigned grids the way U-boats were; they were given stations but it wasn't a grid system like BdU's. Which just makes what you said even more worth asking for. A good dynamic model for the radio would be one of the single best things to have in SH4, IMO.

U.S. boats were very often shuffled around based on Ultra intelligence. It affected their deployments probably more than anything else. Codebreakers figured out IJN movements, which were then relayed to the boats through their base commanders (although course and speed projections were not always 100% accurate). To take your example of carriers - in the Battle of the Philippine Sea, U.S. subs sank two IJN carriers (Shokaku and Taiho) based on information gathered from Ultra.

In SH3, you often feel like BdU doesn't know or care where you are or what you're doing ("Be more aggressive") - in SH4 it would be nice if your success on patrol were more dependent on being able to send and receive.

Along the same line.... AFAIK Japanese RDF-ing wasn't done nearly as often, nor as effectively, as in the North Atlantic (though they did occasionally jam U.S. radio traffic), so I don't think breaking radio silence should always and instantaneously give you away.

And a somewhat related request: Devs, please make the SJ radar useable while submerged at periscope depth (which is historical). In other words, don't let the Type XXI radar bug creep into SH4.

[Threadfin]

It may have been mentioned, but I'd like to see an option for realistic career length, along with a 'Hall of Fame' for the top careers.

Career length random and predetermined (not player set), with most careers 4-6 patrols, with chance to be relieved after 2nd patrol for non-production. Rare chance for more than 6, up to 10, which is the record for most war patrols by a single U.S. commander (Lee S-12/Grayling/Croaker, and Dempsey S-37/Spearfish/Cod)

Two skippers had 9 patrols, three had 8, ten had 7, thirteen had 6. Taken from Blair's Silent Victory which lists the top 76 skippers so is an incomplete list, but it's unlikely any commanders with 6 or more patrols wouldn't be in this list.

[DeepSix]

Been pondering this idea for several days. Joseph Fitz-Patrick made 17 patrols (according to Blair) but I'm not sure how many of those were as skipper (not all of them, I'm sure). Also, a few skippers who had been relieved got second chances, so I'd hate to see a career irretrievably over after only 2 patrols (although I agree it would be realistic). So maybe factor in a chance for reinstatement if relieved for failure to acheive results.

I think the idea of limiting the number of patrols for a career to a realistic amount is entirely a good one, but my two cents would be to incorporate it via a mod rather than have it built into the stock game without any player control over it. I think the average or first-time player would not like to have limits.

Several skippers (thinking of Moon Chapple, one of the ones given a second chance) went through the war from start to finish, so if the number of patrols must be limited, IMO it'd be good to have them spread out - so you don't, for instance, start December 7 and find your career ended before Midway (unless you're dead, of course :dead: ).

[Edit: Just thought of something else - Lockwood or Christie think it was Lockwood) nearly always "relieved" his skippers for a rest after they'd completed 5 patrols. Based on Blair's top 76, the average number of patrols completed was 5.2.]

[U-104]

Faster computers make for better water, better AI, and more populated oceans and harbors - they don't automatically allow you to make battlecruiser 3000AD style 'lets simulate EVERYTHING' type products.



an excellent point, and well made.

I would just add, have a good look at the reviews of BC3000 and tell me that you want to see SHIV done that badly. I have and like the game very much, thank you!!!

[Donner]

Joseph Fitz-Patrick made 17 patrols (according to Blair) but I'm not sure how many of those were as skipper (not all of them, I'm sure).

Fitz-Patrick was in command (USS Paddle) for only 3 of his 17 patrols.

If we have accurate periscopes, radar, sonar, torpedo reliability, dive times, etc., why not have realistic "command relief?"
I'm all for it! :ping:

As is well known, Congressman Andrew Jackson May (D-KY), chairman of House Military Affairs Committee, visited the Pacific theater for operational briefings. At a press conference held after his return, May said the Japanese were setting their depth charges too shallow and our submarines were safe. Shortly afterwards, the Japanese began setting the charges deeper. Admiral Lockwood opined that May's statement probably caused the loss of ten submarines.

I would like to see an increase in Japanese depth charge accuracy (deeper settings) after June 1943 to reflect this.

[TangoShadow]

Hi,

* More compartments on the boat (even if you can only walk into them and look around - you can asses damage etc). Seeing the engines run/torpedoes being loaded would be neat, too. :)

* If you are at a station (e.g. Attack Periscope) - add the ability to right-click out of the view to the view as if you are sitting at the scope, then right-click out of the seat to the conning tower. You can go to the scope like this, but you can't get out again; you have to use the shortcut bar presently. :(

* Improved interior damage modelling (i.e. more of it)

* Other subs in the sea (both sides)

* More detailed interiors (but NOT to the deteriment of the smoothness of the sim - SH3 is great on my AMD Athlon XP 2600+ ! Don't go the way of many other games/sims with ever decreasing performance requiring faster computers!)

* Dud torpedoes ?

* Hulls that look like they've been to sea! ;)


I really can't think of anythign else - SH3 is pretty darn good! :D

--TangoShadow

[George S]

For SHIV I'd like to see the following features to reflect the PTO accurately:

1) Dud torpedo % accurately depicted as war goes on
2) FOX messages assigned with your codename that change your mission while at sea
3) The operating theatre goes from the Aleutians to the Solomons
4) Many areas have innaccurate or outdated navigational charts, where depth, presence of reefs, etc are unknown
5) Possibility of mine fields
6) Some fishing boats used as lookouts and radio transmitters
7) Realistic equipment failure on the boat
8) FLASH intel reports while on patrol
9) Possibility of being attacked by friendly aircraft
10) Tokyo Rose on the radio
11) Recon, lifeguard, minelaying and supply missions accurately reflected
12) Hospital ships and Q ships represented

As far as SHIV portraying the Pacific war rather than the UBoat war, I'm sure I'm in the tiniest of minorities in saying that I have always thought the ATO less interesting compared to the PTO (in terms of playing a sub sim). I say that for one simple reason: except for a very brief period of time, the war in the Atlantic was never balanced. One side or the other always had a vast technical or numerical advantage. It's always either feast or famine. For the last year, as a sub commander, it's all you can do to stay alive day-to-day let alone attacking and sinking the enemy. I do not find that very interesting after a while.
On the other hand, in the PTO, even when Japan's naval power is broken, any individual encounter could go either way. And so it went throughout almost the entire war. Play balance nevers swings too far either way, regardless of time period.

[DeepSix]

Joseph Fitz-Patrick made 17 patrols (according to Blair) but I'm not sure how many of those were as skipper (not all of them, I'm sure).

Fitz-Patrick was in command (USS Paddle) for only 3 of his 17 patrols.
...

Ah, thank you. I couldn't remember the exact number.

I think "realistic relief" is a great idea, but I also think it would please more people to have it as a mod rather than as a stock element. Casual players may not go for it if it's a stock feature, while the realism junkies (who are the most likely to use mods on a regular basis, IMO) will love it.

[slow_n_ez]

My only wish is ......................

Out of box game that don't need a patch after 2 weeks of being released ......

Out of box game that don't need 5 thousand mods in order to make it look 'interesting' or 'real'

Out of box game that I don't need to spend 500 us dollars to upgrade my computer in order to play it ..........

[Threadfin]

I think the idea of limiting the number of patrols for a career to a realistic amount is entirely a good one, but my two cents would be to incorporate it via a mod rather than have it built into the stock game without any player control over it. I think the average or first-time player would not like to have limits.




Good points DS, although this realistic career stuff could just be an option.

George S, great post, agree on all of your points.

[DeepSix]

I just noticed that I repeated myself in that last post. Sorry about that. :oops: Must be getting senile.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Firstly, I think a Pacific theatre submarine game has been on the cards ever since the (frankly astounding) Pacific Aces for SH2.

But to make this game rock the proverbial socks, I think Ubisoft should add-

'A More Human Crew' - Okay, so SH3 added in some pretty good models of your U-Boats crew, but it would be nice to have them moving around on your submarine, actually looking like they're doing something. For example, your ChEng could, in times of transit walk around the control room, cleaning gauges, checking valves and pumps. Whilst your Navigator uses the...star..doohickey.. to recompute your current position. I feel this would add a massive amount of atmosphere to the game - make your crew more human and players will take the game more and more seriously. (Not that no-one does now, of course, manual TDCers. ;D )

Random System Failiures - I noticed this in PA - occasionally my engines would get damaged, due to mechanical problems. This could be greatly expanded upon, perhaps to include individual parts of the ship being faulty, such as bearing shelves or compasses

The coveted 'Free Roam' - I totally agree with this one. As a commander, you should be able to inspect every nook and cranny of your ship, making sure the crew is working efficiently, the systems are functioning correctly, and any low priority items for repair or adjustment (maybe periscope aligments and so forth)

More control in port - This is a rather childish little want, but I think it'd be cool and immersive if you could control what gets loaded onto your submarine in terms of food, fuel, weapons and luxuries. Certain luxuries such as chocolate and extra gramophone records can boost morale, whereas extra weapons boosts the combat value of your ship, at the expense of space (and morale as a result)

In a summary, keep the graphics more or less the same (with a few glitches removed) and concentrate on immersion and realism. You cant go far wrong with that, if SH3 is any indication as to what the dev team is capable of.

[Sailor Steve]

I would like to see things accurately placed. SHIII has the Observation Periscope at the wrong end of the control room, as well as no actual helmsman, who should be seated at a wheel at the front of the control room (behind the chief and at a right angle to the two planesmen).

Just little things, but this is the 'wish list'.

[Red Devil]

Wish list eh?

1. Ability to go right through whole of WW2
2. Ability to, and missions for, shelling shore targets
3. Return of the rescue missions (SH1)
4. A lot of subs could and did go "below crush depth" but SH2 (PA) refuses to allow this, would like to see it in SH4. U boats could go VERY deep, was it their superior build?
5. Superior graphics are obvious but superior sound too and beta tested to destruction BEFORE release.

[Drebbel]

and beta tested to destruction BEFORE release.

Even when Beta Testing the latest patch for SHIV many problems where reported. But lack of fund was the reason they where not fixed. That is the main reason I basically stopped playing SHIV, even the sonar is broken :-(

So please reserve enough funds to fix problems discovered in prerelease-beta and patch-beta testing !

[CCIP]

Even when Beta Testing the latest patch for SHIV many problems where reported. But lack of fund was the reason they where not fixed. That is the main reason I basically stopped playing SHIV, even the sonar is broken :-(
!

I hope you meant SHIII :o

[Drebbel]

Yep, SHIII

[Sailor Steve]

4. A lot of subs could and did go "below crush depth" but SH2 (PA) refuses to allow this, would like to see it in SH4. U boats could go VERY deep, was it their superior build?
Some u-boats in extreme situations ended up going as deep as 300 meters (close to 1000 feet). So did some U.S. submarines. I don't thing the building was that much different.

[DeepSix]

Anybody else besides me think seeing phosphorescence in the water would be really cool?:cool:

[Tronics]

Just some thoughts from a long time and rather complatent SH3 player.

I'd prefer to see more life in the submarine, as has been stated before.

But also I want to have the effects of crew be ovbiously apparent. For example, I want to be able to delegate duties to other officers, such as crew management. I'm rather tired of waking up and finding the boat dead in the water for 4 hours as everyone simply decided to stop working. This dosen't happen, theres crew rotations, the captain's job is to manage the property of the navy (boat), not to babysit the crew. Thats the petty officers job :)

Communication is a must as well, as is opening up the rest of the boat.

But I'd like a little more level of immersion, I'd like a variable skill set of officers, noone is perfect at everything, so is having a preset slider bar system regarding ship duties randomly generated off of the 'birth' of the officer a bad thing?

Sure medals and experience in a compartment can improve these, and should. Also I believe that the officer promotion should be standard as it is provided via SHcommander.

If I had a rather extremely skilled and highly decotared officer it makes since that either BDU or the USN grant him a boat commission. What would be more immersive to be sailing on your last patrols before retirement, called into a wolfpack, and then notice that the tailing u-boat is in fact your former IWO?

[Drebbel]

My only wish is ......................

Out of box game that don't need a patch after 2 weeks of being released ......

Ah, so you want a game that has been tested on thousends of different computer systems and combinations by hundreds of people. Better prepare for a release date that is pushed forward for atleast 6 months, and then still it will not be bug free,

Out of box game that don't need 5 thousand mods in order to make it look 'interesting' or 'real'

Ah, so you want an unmoddable game. When a game is modable the modders always will be able to make certain parts of the game more interesting or better.


Out of box game that I don't need to spend 500 us dollars to upgrade my computer in order to play it


Ah, so you want outdated graphics, but you want it to look real.

Maybe you should go back to Silent Service 1, that game has next to none mods, runs smooth and has few known bugs, and you only have to downgrade your computer or run DosBox.

:p

:D

Anybody else besides me think seeing phosphorescence in the water would be really cool?:cool:

Yep, would sure be cool. The more graphics and options the better.

[CannonFodder]

I thought SH3 was fantastic, esp after some of the great mods that were later developed. For SH4 the biggest thing I could wish for would be a improvement and integration of time compression and crew management. Setting daily watches without guys falling asleep at the controls is a must! I would also like to see when you are in time compression above a number you set, ie 8X the captain, (you) are off duty and in your bunk. Your XO would be in command and follow captain's (your) standing orders. ie, avoid target "this" and "that", engage target "this" and "that" You would arrive on the command deck with the crew already getting underway to avoid or engage a contact, and not wake up to a "death screen" because you couldn't slow the time comp in time.

It only makes sense to me that if the enemy AI can currently attack and sink you before you can lift a hand to get out of time compression, that the friendly AI crew mates can be smart enough to avoid that rock, not hit that friendly freighter or crash dive when swarmed by destroyers while you are rising from your bunk rubbing the sleep out of your eyes.

Once the immediate threat is dealt with, your XO can report all happenings while you were napping.:yep:

PS new here. Nice board. Great to see this series alive and well in the community.

[DeepSix]

Welcome aboard!

[Iceberg]

How about support for wide screen resolution in SHIV?

Wide, as in 3840X1024 to work well with the Matrox TripleHead2Go (http://www.matrox.com/graphics/offhome/th2go/home.cfm).
(That would compensate for the poor 1024X768 they gave us with SHIII)
C'mon Devs... Add your game to the list (http://www.matrox.com/graphics/offhome/th2go/gaming/list.cfm)! ;)

Cheers,

Iceberg.

[Safe-Keeper]

More moddability: Ability to add interiors and player-control to any entity in the game. A deeper mission editor with far more trigger options and events.

[Patboot]

Not having read all ten pages, but my 2 bits?

Polycrewing- Being able to man stations with other players.

Think having 2 or three of your friends on the boat, in a mission.

[-Pv-]

What would a mult crew do? 99% of the time they're sitting around wating for something to happen, then each of them clicks one button and it's all over, then wait some more. The game is too simple for a mult crew on one boat, even if they made it twice as complex. My opinion is this game pivots on complex game logic, AI and historical immersion. The player just needs to make a few simple timely decisions.
To elaborate, what would the diving officer do? Maybe he gets to press S or P every 8-24 game hours.
What would the Torpedo Man do?
Imagine being the Watch Officer and staring at the horizon for endless hours.
If you have a Chief, he would do 50% of the work, the CO, 40% and you 10%.

Let the AI do the boring stuff and I'll be the captain. Gives me something to do a few times a day.
-Pv-

[Fritz Fraghof]

Many fantastic suggestions here. A few vital ones from me: update the graphics at least to include shader model 2 & 3 support and normal/bump mapping for sub/ship skins. Modelling the open ocean is not about polygons so much as having good surface effects. Also I suggest adding bigger waves and better particle effects for waves : both 'whitecaps' and waves hitting the bow & conning tower. Please try to model fog somehow with some sort of (particle/shader) effects, rather than just a grey horizon. (In SHIII I have to ask the navigator to confirm how foggy it is.) It would be very nice to include some sort of animation for the crew manning and leaving the conning tower in the external view. Use a good beta program to cut down on bugs and incorportate valuable feedback. Include good support for mods as with SHIII. Mods elevated SHIII (for me) from very good to the almost sublime. A SDK release for modders would be great (before release preferably), even if just for adding extra ships. Things like this drum up community interest and support and are free content as far as developers are concerned. (Sims 2 did this cleverly pre-release with a Sim skinner or such)

[Fritz Fraghof]

BEST IDEA?

Read below. SH3 was on the right track with the 3d interior, but they really need to go this next step if we are to have a fully modeled 3d boat (all compartments).

The goal should be to minimize the necessity for a 2d interface, which only serves to ruin your immersion in the game, and to get rid of "quick jump" options that do the same.

Finally, we need to come up with REASONS for a captain to occasionally vist the fore and aft torp rooms, the wardroom ect.


"Heightened experience of being inside the submarine."

This one is most important to me. I really appreciate being able to stand in the conning tower and sit on my (captains) bed etc etc. However, continuity seems to pass me completely by as the screen flicks into each compartment. I've seen quite a few people mention the ability to roam freely about the sub, however i can't help but feel this would detract from gameplay by introducing a first-person style edge.

What i propose would be like a kind of camera waypoint "track" between compartments. For instance - if i am in the command room and i want to get to the bridge, then i press F4 and the camera moves towards the hatch and up the ladder to the conning tower, and from there up onto the bridge. This is a feature that i have craved from the start after being initially a little dissapointed at the internal navigation dynamics.

Also, when i bring up the navigation map, it feels like i am viewing the map from outside of the sub (if you know what i mean). Using the above idea it would be nice to have the camera zoom into it to try and establish that i am still in the sub and i'm looking at a real chart, rather than a planning screen in "non-space".

On top of all this, I completely agree with what everyone else has proposed for the sub interior. More compartments (even just to explore) and more crew interacting with their tin-can environment.
I like this idea. Tap key once and you 'walk' there slow (on track so no worries about collision detection, AI etc.), double tap it and you run fast (with sound effects).

[Fritz Fraghof]

:rock:

I would like to see;

1. Crew populating enemy ships, abandoning ship when its sinking, swimming in the water after it sinks and floating casualties above and below the surface after a sinking.

Nice idea. Then someone can create a shark mod! Cue Jaws music...

[Sulikate]

Many fantastic suggestions here. A few vital ones from me: update the graphics at least to include shader model 2 & 3 support and normal/bump mapping for sub/ship skins. Modelling the open ocean is not about polygons so much as having good surface effects. Also I suggest adding bigger waves and better particle effects for waves : both 'whitecaps' and waves hitting the bow & conning tower. Please try to model fog somehow with some sort of (particle/shader) effects, rather than just a grey horizon. (In SHIII I have to ask the navigator to confirm how foggy it is.) It would be very nice to include some sort of animation for the crew manning and leaving the conning tower in the external view. Use a good beta program to cut down on bugs and incorportate valuable feedback. Include good support for mods as with SHIII. Mods elevated SHIII (for me) from very good to the almost sublime. A SDK release for modders would be great (before release preferably), even if just for adding extra ships. Things like this drum up community interest and support and are free content as far as developers are concerned. (Sims 2 did this cleverly pre-release with a Sim skinner or such)
Nice graphic suggestion, 100% agreed.:up:

[Kurushio]

I have to add here that I would like a working anchor....if that isn't too much to ask? :p

[Immacolata]

Simple wishes from me

HDR support

Dynamic resolution

Better tools and assists for manual plotting and target solution
- mods have made this somewhat easier, but I believe the game should be much kinder towards players that wants to plot their own solutions. Like proper rulers, ability to have officers to make time plots on map from bearing and range that you give them.

Missions. Dynamic campaign is one thing, but the ability to get special orders from BdU would be nice. Doesn't have to be historically accurate for my sake, as long as it is fun.

Deeper simulation. SH3 feels a bit shallow, no pun intended. Where is the thermal layers? Why do DC not disrupt destroyer's? Damage model? Repair times? Plane trim?

30 km visual range, ta. Doesn't have to mean 30km visibility all the time, but we need more visible horizon from SH3s pitiful, embarassing 8 km.

[Onkel Neal]

My wish list:

1. A working stadimeter, as the US subs had, where a dual image is lowered until the mast height is even with the surface of the ocean.
2. Complete red-light shading: SH3 did this well in 80% of the screens, but the Ship ID log and the UZO blind me when playing at night in a dark room.
3. More realistic escort visual abilities: US subs frequently slid into convoys at ranges of 2000 yards without detection on moonless or overcast nights. US subs also used sailing fleets and junks as camouflage.
4. Neutral Russian ships – very important along the coast to ID ships, sinking a Russian neutral should cause a skipper to be relieved of command, career over.
5. Coral reefs, shoals, rocks, and shallows should abound. Some not marked on the charts. Big part of the US sub war was trying to avoid running aground.
6. Radio traffic and more of it. HQ does most of the talking, sending Ultras, convoy info, and area reports
7. No “Enemy Target Destroyed” messages
8. A new compartment to view; such as the engine room, mess, or torpedo room, with 3D crew.
9. Tokyo Rose broadcasts – and lots of them!
10. Phosphorescence of sub and torpedo wakes. In certain areas, at certain times, US subs at high speed would leave a glowing trail. This would be a good tactical consideration that adds to the gameplay.
11. Large-scale naval engagements, such as Midway, Battle of Coral Sea, Battle of the Philippine Sea, the Okinawa Invasion, etc.

[Onkel Neal]

Simple wishes from me

HDR support

Dynamic resolution

Better tools and assists for manual plotting and target solution
- mods have made this somewhat easier, but I believe the game should be much kinder towards players that wants to plot their own solutions. Like proper rulers, ability to have officers to make time plots on map from bearing and range that you give them.


Yes, agreed. I love to do all the plotting by hand, even of the ships' locations and courses. I would like to have a freehand pencil to initial targets, and a better compass where I can lay it over my ownsub, and lay down the bearing of the targets. The SH3 compass works but could be better.

[Safe-Keeper]

7. No “Enemy Target Destroyed” messages
I've got nothing against them, actually, but they need to be broken up a bit ("I've got break-up noises", "she's sinking", "she's broken in two", "they're abandoning ship!", etc.), and should only be shown if you know the ship's going down. Also, it shouldn't be "Enemy target destroyed", but "Target Destroyed", unless you've actually identified the target as friendly, neutral, or hostile.

11. Large-scale naval engagements, such as Midway, Battle of Coral Sea, Battle of the Philippine Sea, the Okinawa Invasion, etc. Historical events is a must. Big things and small things. The B-25-bombing of Japan after Pearl Harbour, the sinking of the USS Indianapolis, and so on.

I'd like it if you could affect those battles, if not the entire war (although, of course, altering a large battle could have a kind of impact on the conflict). For example, you can be rewarded for spotting the survivors from Indianapolis, sinking the Japanese patrol boat that would otherwise spot the carrier task force en-route to bomb Japan in the said mission, etc. Should give you a good deal of renown and perhaps some other rewards.

[DeepSix]

I like that list, Neal.:up: Agree 100% with every one of those points, and also with the wish for a free hand pencil or some sort of means for making text notes on the map.

One question, though - IIRC, there were half a dozen or so Russian ships torpedoed by U.S. subs, but were any U.S. sub skippers actually relieved for sinking a Russian neutral? The only particular case I can remember off the top of my head is where one skipper (might have been Moon Chapple?) torpedoed a Russian trawler. Aware of the gravity of his mistake, he took the trawler crew on board. By the end of the patrol, he'd hosted them so well that by the time they were interrogated, they all insisted that they'd been torpedoed by a Japanese sub, and that a U.S. sub had kindly rendered assistance.:D What if instead of relief there were a huge loss in renown?

Only other thing I'd add to that is that ALL the Russian ships that were sunk were in the general area of the Sea of Japan, the Kuriles, Sakhalin, etc. - in other words, if they're included, there should be NO Russian ships plying the waters off Rabaul or Kwajalein. My wish would be for them to be found only in logical and historically correct areas.

@safe-keeper: those are great suggestions; how about adding to them "Radar reports contact lost" or something like that? Many claimed sinkings were based on either loss of contact from radar or loss of contact from sonar, or both.

[EDIT: Forgot to mention: 8. A new compartment to view; such as the engine room, mess, or torpedo room, with 3D crew. Make mine the wardroom, then.:D So I can read or study the Nat'l Geo. Society map of the Pacific and whatnot. Or play chess - that's one area where I could tolerate a multi-player function. Play online while you patrol. Sure, it would be against other skips, but I could easily pretend that the other captain was instead my XO, etc. Likewise for the other player. And since U.S. officers frequently served aboard one boat before taking command of another, it sort of works.:D ]

[SubSerpent]

Please include the following in the upcoming hit SHIV.


1. All compartment accessible

2. ALL crew members ALIVE on submarine and viewable in 3d going about their daily routines. (If hitman blood money can create hundreds of characters on the screen at one time why can't this be implemented in with the option to turn off for low end PCs?)

3. EVEN BETTER explosions than stock SHIII.

4. RESUPPLY this time fellas - please for the love of God include this.

5. COMMUNICATIONS with other allied vessels. Following dynamic orders given by allied Capital ships with higher ranking officers onboard that direct the player's sub where to go and what to scout for or attack.

6. Port of calls that are accessible even to the player. - Got to give the boys some time for R/R in friendly and neutral ports.

7. Better weather system than SHIII. Something similar to MicroSoft's Flight Simulator should work excellent in a subsim with dynamically changing weather.

8. Rougher seas - I still think that SHIII sea states are a bit weak compared to real life sea states in heavy winds and storms. I served on the USS Nicholas FFG-47 for 3 years in the US Navy, I would know about the waiting lines to throw up in the head.

9. Lunch for the crew with rationing limits and limits on potable water - Shipmates gotta eat and drink. 3 squares a day should be implemented with potable water, ties in with number 2.

10. Better save game system.

11. 1MC communications throughout the boat. I am not sure if they called it 1MC back then but it is the main communication system in the US fleet right now. It allows the OOD or bridge watch to pass messages throughout the ships intercom system. It would be great to tell the Boatswain's Mate of the watch (BMOW) to pipe and relay messages to the rest of the crew and have them act on it. Things like, "<PIPE TWILL> GENERAL QUARTERS, GENERAL QUARTERS, ALL HANDS MAN YOUR BATTLE STATIONS, THIS IS NOT A DRILL."

12. Rust build up on ships after being out to sea for more than a few days and ability to have ships company do paint and preservation while out to sea by going DIW. This would be important before for returning home for all the lovely lasses and important politicians and Admiral's to see as the submarine pulled back into port.

13. More competition against other submarine Captains and Commanders for rank boards. Tonnage is not everything like it is in the SHIII game. The way a submarine crew performs, the way the submarine is presented in port (not rusted), etc.. should all be a part of the ranking process. Not just tonnage and combat action.

14. 3d fires and water flooding in compartments that are damaged.

15. Lots of historical music and radio broadcast from the time that play on accurate dates.

16. Ability to type(write) our own logs and not have them automatically entered for us.

17. SMART crew. - They should be able to handle most of the little things themselves and standing proper watches. This should be an automatic thing so that the Captain does not have to micro managed his whole ships company. The Captain should however be able to overide anything a crew member is doing and put him to work doing something else. The Captain should be allowed or able to rig the boat for red/white lighting at anytime, but the crew should be doing this on pre-determined schedules if not engaged in current combat.

18. Better charting/navigation and proper tools for the period to calculate it all out.

19. Death sequence for player sub killed. Make it dramatic and sad :cry:

20. Please give us(modders) the tools to create new objects, scenery, etc to be able to add more onto the game without having to find backdoor ways to get it done. If games like Oblivion Elder Scrolls can allow their players and fans to create and add new mods to the game with a full tool kit why can't we. After all we are your loyal and returning customers who will stick with you and your company so long as you keep pumping out these excellent games and listen to our request.

21. And last but not least - BETA TEST , BETA TEST, BETA TEST. We ALL want this thing stable and as perfect as possible on release date.



GEEZ....I don't ask for much do I? Oh Well, I'm spoiled!

[THE_MASK]

Some realistic looking crew would be nice . Going to war on a kriegsmarine sub with the scooby doo cartoon gang just lets the game down .

[THE_MASK]

If you can make SH4 twice as big as SH3 with 2 or more DVDs than thats ok . Im willing to pay say..........$5 more than i paid for SH3 .

[THE_MASK]

MULTIPLAYER

Instead of the current multiplayer game where it has no relation to your career , i feel that the career game is by far the most important and the multiplayer should contribute to your career game . The game could load your current saved career at your own choosing and you could invite up to 4 people anytime to join you in multiplayer wolf packs . The playing area would be a defined area say 100 square kilometre snapshot around your current saved campaign sub position . If there is 4 mutiplayers than you would recieve a quarter of everyones tonnage to go towards your career and they would recieve a quarter of everyones tonnage to go towards there career . Common sense would say that with more players you would achieve a lot more tonnage . Average career tonnage and other stats from all players could be recorded for all to see . You would register your career name when signing in for the first time and just keep that career name . Does this make sense or do i need a drink .

[Safe-Keeper]

10. Better save game system.
Care to elaborate?

5. COMMUNICATIONS with other allied vessels.
Definetly. That's been brought up many times, so the devs know we want it. Let's hope they act on that. Dynamic communication, changing orders, etc.

9. Lunch for the crew with rationing limits and limits on potable water - Shipmates gotta eat and drink. 3 squares a day should be implemented with potable water, ties in with number 2.
I thought that a stupid idea at first, but why the Heck not, if we're going to 3D-model the whole sub anyway, you might as well have some things like this in. Unimportant, but a good selling point, I'd imagine.

And there should be a limit to so much food, water, spare parts, etc.

[SubSerpent]

10. Better save game system.
Care to elaborate?

5. COMMUNICATIONS with other allied vessels.
Definetly. That's been brought up many times, so the devs know we want it. Let's hope they act on that. Dynamic communication, changing orders, etc.

9. Lunch for the crew with rationing limits and limits on potable water - Shipmates gotta eat and drink. 3 squares a day should be implemented with potable water, ties in with number 2.
I thought that a stupid idea at first, but why the Heck not, if we're going to 3D-model the whole sub anyway, you might as well have some things like this in. Unimportant, but a good selling point, I'd imagine.

And there should be a limit to so much food, water, spare parts, etc.







A better save game system that does not require a return to port and can allow updates while in a patrol or mission. Also, others have complained of some data loss while reloading a save game in a mission or patrol such as (convoys no longer there, missing tonnage amounts, etc... etc...

I think it just needs a bit of an adjustment and not feel so un-userfriendly. I also don't like the fact that it deletes all saved games when you load a specific one. Why does it need to delete anything? If I wanted them deleted I'd do it myself.

[Safe-Keeper]

I think it just needs a bit of an adjustment and not feel so un-userfriendly. I also don't like the fact that it deletes all saved games when you load a specific one. Why does it need to delete anything?
To try to keep you from going back and re-loading a failed convoy attack (ie. "cheating"). My best guess.

To Heck with saving manually anyway, ask you me. Have the game save automatically when you quit the game, just like in Uplink, and have it save automatically at a certain player-controlled interval to keep you from losing your campaign to a nasty crash-to-desktop.

What I'd love would be if there, in addition to the "Silent Hunter IV" desktop shortcut, there was a "Continue Silent Hunter IV" that bypassed the opening film, menus, and whatever else and dropped you right back to where you saved the game last time. Just a single loading screen and you're back in your submarine:sunny:!

[DeepSix]

...What I'd love would be if there, in addition to the "Silent Hunter IV" desktop shortcut, there was a "Continue Silent Hunter IV" that bypassed the opening film, menus, and whatever else and dropped you right back to where you saved the game last time. Just a single loading screen and you're back in your submarine:sunny:!


Hey, now, there's an idea!:hmm::up:

[Safe-Keeper]

And if I add the shortcut to my Startup folder, my career will start without me even needing to hit the shortcut key. Luxury:cool:!

And if I train my doggie to hit the "on" button for me... [trails out]

Seriously, though, if Windows XP allows different Startup folders for different user accounts, all you need to do is create a duplicate user account called "Silent Hunter IV" (give it a nice icon and everything;)!) with the "Continue"-shortcut in its Startup folder.

So when you want to play the game, just log on to that one and the game starts. If you want to do something else, log onto your regular account.

[BettingUrlife]

The things I'd like to see (some of them have already been mentioned) would be:
1) more ship types;
2) the abililty to see or participate in 'big events' (e.g. Midway, island hopping campaign etc.);
3) when you are sunk on the surface or near the surface, the chance of options other than death (i.e. capture, being rescued by friendly vessels etc.);
4) some reason to make me want to return to port the long way (i.e. welcome ships to guide us home, tugs, activity in port);
5) a more immersive game (i.e. newspapers, movie reels (they could always show Doenitz visiting the fleet etc etc));

That's pretty much it for me, I don't expect complete 100% realism (maybe in the future when we have bigger and better computers).

[Safe-Keeper]

5) a more immersive game (i.e. newspapers, movie reels (they could always show Doenitz visiting the fleet etc etc));Splendid idea. I think I know how to implement it, too.

For historical information, have that SH 3 Commander feature that shows news for your current month during loading. Just limit it to the events already happened (don't show news for 27th of May on the 5th of May, for example). It's a great feature.

For radio broadcasts, simply have them play as ambience in the Career's "Office Screen"? Movie reels would be more tricky, but I suppose they could be shown as cutscenes after finished missions?

5) a more immersive game (i.e. newspapers, movie reels (they could always show Doenitz visiting the fleet etc etc));
Dönitz? In the USN:p?

[Taurolas]

Wish list

1. more ship types.. and showing if they are loaded or unloaded (height wise in water).. who'd waste a torpedo on an empty ship :D
2. Crew management... deffinately worth allowing the player to select what crew members go where on a watch cycle, and they remain on that watch cycle rotation unless they are exhausted / killed etc.. if you can train them then make sure you can put them where they will actually do some good.
3. ability to use electric motors on surface (might be good if u need to sneak close in to a beach at night to rescue special forces or spies) i like the sneaky factor :D
4. mission types... allow for subs to be used for recon / carrying vital supplies / dropping off spies / comando's etc etc... subs were used to get food / fuel to malta during WWII and some dropped off the odd shore raiding party.
5. release a cut down SDK which would allow the Mod community to further improve / add to the games playability, you only need look at the mods peeps have done for SH3 to realise there are alot of really good modders out there :up:

above all make the game enjoyable!

[BettingUrlife]

... if you can train them then make sure you can put them where they will actually do some good.


You mean like at Crushbone? Apologies all, old joke from EQ haha.

[Sailor Steve]

Wish list

1. more ship types.. and showing if they are loaded or unloaded (height wise in water).. who'd waste a torpedo on an empty ship :D
That would have been nice for SHIII, but SHIV is another story. I've been looking over Japanese convoy records, and their ships very rarely travelled empty. They had so many different island destinations that they were always picking up something going somewhere else; hence they were always full.

[DeepSix]

...and loaded or not, U.S. subs were ordered to sink 'em all anyway.:)

[zaza]

Japanese subs are a must: think about it, you could start off in a two man midget sub or something and move up from there, then you could be a mother sub and fire midget subs or something. plus it would have a learning curve ex. going from the easy pre-US war days to the US-Japanese war, thus extending the war for you

New missions from HQ ex. attack the Panama Canal, raid Pearl Harbour, hunt other sub or ship etc. maybe add in secret missions ex. delivering atom bombs to Germany or testing out a new sub etc.

wolfpacks
I agree.And I want go　Niuginia area islands as supply sub.
IJN have used new submarine such as Jyunsen typeB for that operation.
That mission will be exciting! Because they cant dive so deep, US PT boats and planes
are try to attacking sub when we reach to islands.:up:

[SubSerpent]

1. I would also like to see realistic sailors on the ships (both enemy and friendly) walking the decks, directing planes on carriers, manning gun mounts, coming in and out of hatches and passageways.

2. I like the idea of not dying if the submarine is 100% damaged by being able to give the order to abandon ship with different outcomes depending on several different variables.

3. I would actually not like to see a game like SHIII again. I don't like the fact that the game is predetermined from the get go. I would like to have the game played out more like Chess. I think this would make the game feel more "unpredictable" and make the player feel that he has something to contribute to the final outcome. I realize that no one submarine was responsible for the winning of WWII but I do think that for each ship you sink there should be points given overall that help to aid in the final outcome. For instance...


The world is at war. In this particular game the variables at the beginning are as followed.

Japanese strength 50% overall @ 100% on every asset (this includes panes, trucks, ships, troops, etc)

US strength 50% overall @ 100% on every asset as well.


For each enemy ship the player sub sinks points will be added to the US side if playing as a US submarine. These points could be smaller or larger depending on the importance of the ship sunk, like a BB with an Admiral on it. These points will be added into the total weekly totals at the end of each game week to show that the player submarine contributed to the total overall success or failure for the week. For each week that passes each of the country's overall strength will either grow or shrink depending on ALL engagements for that game week. It could be possible that the player submarine sunk a BB and a CV that week but the Japanese Army overran a large island with an airport that was more important to them than the CV that was lost or the BB.

Overall that week the Japanese would have won in the weekly tallies but not by much considering that they did lose a carrier and a BB. The next week the US Marine Corps might overun that Island again in the US's favor and now things for the US are looking very good since they haven't lost a carrier or a BB yet and now have control of the island as well for even more air supremecy over Japan who is now short a CV, a BB, and and Island with a strategic airport.


Anyways, I think you all understand what I am getting at. I want a WAR happening around me that is NOT pre-determined. SHIII is a great game for the graphics and the realism of sailing in a realistic looking game world. But the knowledge of knowing how the game will end before you even install it onto the HD kind of removes any sense of accomplishment out of it. Some folks want a game that is like this because they claim that it is "REAL" and it's the way the it happened. <BORING> I want something that is REAL also but I want to feel like I am LIVING in it and the outcome is NOT fixed, making it feel even more REAL and like I am living in it. I want the REAL weapons, I want the REAL ships, I want the REAL planes, and I want REAL engagements to happen (like Midway, Coral Sea, Iwa Jima, etc. ) but I want to REALLY live it and have things happen on a 50/50 scale so that things aren't written in stone. Otherwise the game feels more like a time machine and I might as well just sit back and watch the inevitable happen with my arms crossed and my eyes half shut telling the skipper, "Don't worry Sir, nothing important is happening today, and the Japanese will surrender to us on Sept. 2, 1945."


4. ALSO, DEAD IS DEAD. If I sink the Yamato in the game that mofo BETTER NOT show back up in that ENTIRE game unless I start a new career. I've lost count of know how many King George BBs I have sank in the same career in SHIII. When something in SHIV is sunk I want it GONE for good.

[Safe-Keeper]

2. I like the idea of not dying if the submarine is 100% damaged by being able to give the order to abandon ship with different outcomes depending on several different variables. If I may be so bold, the "hull integrity" ("hit points") system just does not fit into a simulator game. Hull integrity of parts of the hull, maybe. But a single count for the whole thing? Not likely.

4. ALSO, DEAD IS DEAD. If I sink the Yamato in the game that mofo BETTER NOT show back up in that ENTIRE game unless I start a new career. I've lost count of know how many King George BBs I have sank in the same career in SHIII. When something in SHIV is sunk I want it GONE for good. Quoted for truth. Same with random names for vessels.

I'm not sure if I like the idea of you affecting the war's outcome, to be honest. To a tiny degree, yes. Heavily? No.

Suggestion: A.I. submarines that move, dive, shoot, fire torpedoes accurately, and generally act submarineish.

Japanese subs are a must: think about it, you could start off in a two man midget sub or something and move up from there, then you could be a mother sub and fire midget subs or something. plus it would have a learning curve ex. going from the easy pre-US war days to the US-Japanese war, thus extending the war for you No need, just include them in the game and make the game very moddable so we can do that ourselves.

Anyone ever played X-Wing Alliance? Every vessel and station had an entry in a file called shiplist.txt, and the entry contained the words "Flyable" and "Nonflyable". You could make everything in the game player-controlled by changing those entries. Some bugs were involved (all vessels, even capital ships, could only fire forwards, and they all had the generic civilian fighter pilot cockpit), but it was fairly neat anyway.

Something like that would be nice for Silent Hunter IV. I don't care if I wind up driving a destroyer with a Gato-sub interior (or other funny anomalies). Just let us mod it and see what we get. I promise you, there'll be an unofficial "Surface Command" mod out that lets you drive surface vessels in a month, and a mod that has fully modelled interiors for at least one new vessel in a year.

Suggestion: Implement a captain's log (edittable in-game as well as outside of it, and saveable in HTML format for distribution and safe-keeping). Allows you to make your own entires and also automatically records sinking, transfers of crew, mission orders and how they were resolved, upgrades/repairs/damage, radio traffic, etc. In short, a detailed report on whatever important happens, akin to how SH3 Commander does it.

In addition, separate tables that record sinkings, transfers, etc. separately, for easy reference.
Sample log entry (feel free to comment any historical details, I'm "just writing" this):
Captain's Log, USS AMAZON
Gato-Class, commissioned 1/11/1942
Lt. Oeyvind W(full name emitted for privacy reasons:p) in command.

First entry: 2/5/1943
Last entry:

- - -


IN BASE
Base: Pearl Harbour.
Assumed command of boat.

New crew member: Sebastian Andrews.
Threw chickens out of Command Centre.
Threw out Frensen's socks.
Disinfected Frensen's feet by means of standard initiation procedure.
Received new pair of socks.
Damage repaired from earlier patrol:
- Depth gauge [damaged - measurement off by 20 metres].
- Forward Hull Plating [minor punctures].
- Starboard Propeller [partly shattered].
- Flak Cannon [overheated].
PATROL 1
2/5/1943
Base: Pearl Harbour.
Mission: Recon Manila, the Phillipines. Photograph shore defences and anchored warships.
Left base at 0736 Hrs.
Weather: Clear, wind strenght breeze, direction NW. No fog or precipitation.
Have started my first patrol with the USS AMAZON. Crew in excellent spirits.

Radio message received.
2/9, 2101 Hours.
SOS Distress Call received from S/S Island-wind.
[Position here, long and lat]
Vessel's radio operator reported ship was damaged severely by hurricane and would not stay afloat for long.

Have changed course to rescue crew of 4.
As the only vessel remotely close enough to help, we've been given a
rescue mission. Crew disgruntled. Navigation Officer Jack Svenssen
suggested painting Red Crosses on conning tower. 2/9, 2102 Hrs.
Radio message received.
Informed Command of situation. Orders were given to rescue crew members.

2/10, 1158 Hrs.
Life-Boat Sighted.
[Position here, long and lat]
Single life boat with 4 persons on board.

Survivors of life-boat taken aboard. Confirmed they were
S/S Islandwind survivors.

2/10, 1211 Hrs.
Radio message sent.
Informed Command of situation. Orders were given to disembark crewmen at Midway.

2/17, 802 Hrs.
Arrived in harbour.
Re-fuelled.
Disembarked passengers.

2/17, 802 Hrs.
ORDERS ACCOMPLISHED
S/S Islandwind survivors rescued and transported to safety.
New orders are to return to original recon mission.

2/17, 1249 Hrs.
Departed harbour

And so on. List everything that happens. The notes on spirits and Red Crosses were the captains' notes, added by the player. Everything else is generated.

[Edward Trapp]

i suppose my complaint with SH3 apart from the bugs would be as follows


:- independant control of both left and right props

:- choose between running on deisels or electrics while surfaced

:- control of diveplanes

:- a sightly more advanced damage control system

:- a patrol system similar to the one used in the original silent hunter game

:- return of the narwhal class from the original silent hunter game

:- the creation of a destroyer command 2 (this was silent hunter II's only saving grace in my opinion and was extreamly enjoyable)

:- Damage to the Sub if it is forced through a storm at full speed (a more realistic approch here would be nice and would make the weather more of a factor when chasing ships and convoys)

[Medenine]

As well as the US and Japanese I would love to see Dutch and especially British boats? Both played an important part in areas such as the Malacca Straits and the Java Sea. British subs included could be the T class which saw extensive use and was a success in the shallow waters.
Also if you want to expand I would like the possibilty to command midget subs as both the British and Japanese used them extensivly. 'X craft' missions of sinking ships in port by amotol explosives (Takao, Singapore 1945) and also the use of Japanese midgets at Pearl Harbour.
I could go mad but I will mention raiding parties, the use of spotter aircraft on Japanese I-boats, mine laying, etc...

[Sailor Steve]

Just think, if you played Japanese you could get a message "Captain, your first mission is to drive a kaiten. If you should survive it will be assumed you chickened out, and you will be shot for cowardice. It's been nice knowing you.":rotfl:

[Safe-Keeper]

Hopefully, the game has
AI submarines of Japan as well as the US subs (said subs, as all other torpedo-armed vessels and planes, had better fire them intelligently, too), and
Enough moddability to allow fans to create a "driveable Jap sub" mod.Other than that, or an expansion pack, I can't imagine that Ubisoft will be making more than one nation playable. It'd be nice, but way too much work (even more so than implementing a tenth of my suggestions alone, which says a lot:p).

[tautug]

In addition to the many other great comments I have 3 wishes.

I have done 2 tours of Hawaii, SW Pacific/Pearl Harbor. All I can say is the scenery is gorgeous. Granted, most time will be at sea, but I wish for the following to enhance the "realism" as a sim.

a.) When in Port (Australia, Hawaii, Midway, etc.) Lush scenery and Tidy Bowl blue water!!! Watch any WWII Pacific Theatre movie, and you can't help but love seeing sailors in their kahky's or dress white's walking through the palm trees and sandy beaches. Some in port element to capture the glamour of Pacific Islands, would make me feel more "there". Perhaps more to do in port could be incorporated with this. i.e. a bar to go to and talk to other sailors, movie scenes where you are in meetings with upper brass or get briefed on special missions??? You get the idea

b.) Speaking of Special Missions, the Dynamic Campaign is a must but PLEASE build into it, historic ops. i.e. during your campaign, at the right historical timing, your boat get's called into a special op, or special mission. Other US ships might be there, and if so, have communique with them, etc. It could just be a recon mission, or spy drop off but don't make me feel alone at sea, I'm in a "fleet" boat, because we were part of a team.

c.) More interaction on the boat with crew. In SH3 I'm still a bit bored and feel alone. I want to walk my gorgeous fleet boat and see that shiny brass and stainless steel plating, and the big steel "general Electric" on the motor controls. Fleet boats were cruise ships compared to U-Boats. The galley and mess hall were like eating in an art deco cafeteria. They had full showers and bathrooms, officers cabins, etc.... I want to see my boat, and my crew working. I want to see real damage happening and damage control crews to work on fixing.

d.) OK, I said 3, but I want 4, multiple damage control capabilities. I should be able to assign a main damage control group to handle things, but in a multiple damage situation, I would like to split my crew into 2 or 3 units to fix problems.

e.) Darn, make it 5. Sleep mode. i.e. when in transit in the pacific, have captain go to cabin, and sleep. You will wake up at an adjustable time, and you will only be awaken by a sighting or sounding or urgent message or if weather turns sour.

[DeepSix]

d.) OK, I said 3, but I want 4, multiple damage control capabilities. I should be able to assign a main damage control group to handle things, but in a multiple damage situation, I would like to split my crew into 2 or 3 units to fix problems.

That's an excellent idea.:up:

[Medenine]

In addition to the many other great comments I have 3 wishes.

I have done 2 tours of Hawaii, SW Pacific/Pearl Harbor. All I can say is the scenery is gorgeous. Granted, most time will be at sea, but I wish for the following to enhance the "realism" as a sim.

a.) When in Port (Australia, Hawaii, Midway, etc.) Lush scenery and Tidy Bowl blue water!!! Watch any WWII Pacific Theatre movie, and you can't help but love seeing sailors in their kahky's or dress white's walking through the palm trees and sandy beaches. Some in port element to capture the glamour of Pacific Islands, would make me feel more "there". Perhaps more to do in port could be incorporated with this. i.e. a bar to go to and talk to other sailors, movie scenes where you are in meetings with upper brass or get briefed on special missions??? You get the idea

b.) Speaking of Special Missions, the Dynamic Campaign is a must but PLEASE build into it, historic ops. i.e. during your campaign, at the right historical timing, your boat get's called into a special op, or special mission. Other US ships might be there, and if so, have communique with them, etc. It could just be a recon mission, or spy drop off but don't make me feel alone at sea, I'm in a "fleet" boat, because we were part of a team.

c.) More interaction on the boat with crew. In SH3 I'm still a bit bored and feel alone. I want to walk my gorgeous fleet boat and see that shiny brass and stainless steel plating, and the big steel "general Electric" on the motor controls. Fleet boats were cruise ships compared to U-Boats. The galley and mess hall were like eating in an art deco cafeteria. They had full showers and bathrooms, officers cabins, etc.... I want to see my boat, and my crew working. I want to see real damage happening and damage control crews to work on fixing.

d.) OK, I said 3, but I want 4, multiple damage control capabilities. I should be able to assign a main damage control group to handle things, but in a multiple damage situation, I would like to split my crew into 2 or 3 units to fix problems.

e.) Darn, make it 5. Sleep mode. i.e. when in transit in the pacific, have captain go to cabin, and sleep. You will wake up at an adjustable time, and you will only be awaken by a sighting or sounding or urgent message or if weather turns sour.

That is an awesome selection of ideas especially the sleep mode.
I concur!

[Safe-Keeper]

I have done 2 tours of Hawaii, SW Pacific/Pearl Harbor. All I can say is the scenery is gorgeous. Granted, most time will be at sea, but I wish for the following to enhance the "realism" as a sim.

When in Port (Australia, Hawaii, Midway, etc.) Lush scenery and Tidy Bowl blue water!!! Watch any WWII Pacific Theatre movie, and you can't help but love seeing sailors in their kahky's or dress white's walking through the palm trees and sandy beaches. Some in port element to capture the glamour of Pacific Islands, would make me feel more "there".I agree, scenery (terrain, trees, buildings, etc.) could be far better, and I have this feeling they will be.

As long as it's a graphics option, I don't see anything wrong with it. If it isn't, I'll have to say no, as it'll lag the game for those of us who don't have super-computers.

Perhaps more to do in port could be incorporated with this. i.e. a bar to go to and talk to other sailors, movie scenes where you are in meetings with upper brass or get briefed on special missions??? You get the ideaI don't really like the idea of an RPG element, to be honest. I'd rather focus on the simulation of the submarine patrols.

b.) Speaking of Special Missions, the Dynamic Campaign is a must but PLEASE build into it, historic ops. i.e. during your campaign, at the right historical timing, your boat get's called into a special op, or special mission. Other US ships might be there, and if so, have communique with them, etc. It could just be a recon mission, or spy drop off but don't make me feel alone at sea, I'm in a "fleet" boat, because we were part of a team.
I agree there need to be more historical stuff, but you should only be called to them if they really need you. Nothing to stop you from going over there anyway, you know.

c.) More interaction on the boat with crew. In SH3 I'm still a bit bored and feel alone. I want to walk my gorgeous fleet boat and see that shiny brass and stainless steel plating, and the big steel "general Electric" on the motor controls. Fleet boats were cruise ships compared to U-Boats. The galley and mess hall were like eating in an art deco cafeteria. They had full showers and bathrooms, officers cabins, etc.... I want to see my boat, and my crew working. I want to see real damage happening and damage control crews to work on fixing.You're not the only one. I don't think it's a that important thing, but I wouldn't exactly mind seeing it, either.

d.) OK, I said 3, but I want 4, multiple damage control capabilities. I should be able to assign a main damage control group to handle things, but in a multiple damage situation, I would like to split my crew into 2 or 3 units to fix problems.Not a bad idea at all.

e.) Darn, make it 5. Sleep mode. i.e. when in transit in the pacific, have captain go to cabin, and sleep. You will wake up at an adjustable time, and you will only be awaken by a sighting or sounding or urgent message or if weather turns sour.Again, that's more of an RPG element, so I don't really like it, to be honest. I just consider myself sleeping some of the time the time compression is set to 1024.

[Agrippa]

I haven't posted in this thread yet, and because it's so long I haven't read the whole thing, so I apologize if I make a suggestion someone else has already made (I doubt very much that my ideas will be terribly original).

1. I'd like to see other ships in port. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only scenary improvement that needs to be made.

2. The option to "Exit Patrol" while at sea, like in SH3, but one that doesn't automatically teleport you back home. Sometimes, after a successful patrol, or one where I've used up all my torpedoes because my aim is off (or both), I don't want to sit around with the time compression maxed out waiting to go back home. But for reasons of realism, I don't want to be instantaneously transported back to base. So, if surfaced with no contacts around, you should be able to exit the mission, but the computer should trace a path back to you base at the optimum speed, and have you docked in port on the day and time it would have taken you to do it yourself. This is still a cheat, because it allows you to go home without being detected, but would save a lot of dull time at sea just waiting to get home.

3. People have mentioned this before about SH3: There should at least be the a realism setting to have occasional breakdown of equipment while at sea. Along with this should be more crew injuries than there is in SH3--I can count on one hand the number of crewmen I've had wounded or killed in action (excluding times when I'm sunk, and everybody dies).

4. some more precision when moving the periscope. I don't know how many times I've gotten the wrong distance of a target because the periscope moves too much at the slightest mouse movement.

5. This may sound odd, but I'd like to have a less-than-perfect weapons officer. I don't like having to either do all the torpedo work myself, or having the weapons officer do it perfectly. That officer (if not all the officers) should have a skill level that could increase with time, that effects his accuracy. Just having an officer who's accuracy could be off by as much as 5% could make a huge difference in making a torpedo attack--am I more accurate than my own weapons officer? Would my decision change if I thought my officer would become more accurate by letting him do it, even if it meant missing with this attack?

6. I mentioned this in another thread, but more flexability with the realism options, and to know more about what each option means in game terms. For example, I find the "god map mode" or whatever it's called (where every ship in view of your sub is located accurately on the nave map) to be way too easy, but I also occasionally find "no god mode" too difficult. I'd like a middle option, say something where bearing lines are placed on the map instead of completely accutate postings, a middle option between god mode and no god mode. Just having three settings instead of two ("easy" "medium" and "realistic") would be nice. I like options, and the ability to tailor the realism more to what I want to play at that moment, as I often use different settings at different times, depending on my mood.

[Sailor Steve]

I haven't posted in this thread yet, and because it's so long I haven't read the whole thing, so I apologize if I make a suggestion someone else has already made (I doubt very much that my ideas will be terribly original).

1. I'd like to see other ships in port. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only scenary improvement that needs to be made.
Well, except for the above mentioned tropical foliage. I agree about the ships, but they've made it easy enough for us to do that.

2. The option to "Exit Patrol" while at sea, like in SH3, but one that doesn't automatically teleport you back home. Sometimes, after a successful patrol, or one where I've used up all my torpedoes because my aim is off (or both), I don't want to sit around with the time compression maxed out waiting to go back home. But for reasons of realism, I don't want to be instantaneously transported back to base. So, if surfaced with no contacts around, you should be able to exit the mission, but the computer should trace a path back to you base at the optimum speed, and have you docked in port on the day and time it would have taken you to do it yourself. This is still a cheat, because it allows you to go home without being detected, but would save a lot of dull time at sea just waiting to get home.
Personally I think that would be a waste of resources, but on the whole it's not a bad idea. In Silent Service you used the mouse to drag your boat all around the Pacific while in a time compression so high you watched the map change from day to night every few seconds.

3. People have mentioned this before about SH3: There should at least be the a realism setting to have occasional breakdown of equipment while at sea. Along with this should be more crew injuries than there is in SH3--I can count on one hand the number of crewmen I've had wounded or killed in action (excluding times when I'm sunk, and everybody dies).
Agreed. Crew sickness has also been mentioned.

4. some more precision when moving the periscope. I don't know how many times I've gotten the wrong distance of a target because the periscope moves too much at the slightest mouse movement.
You use the MOUSE to move the periscope?:o I use the Arrow Keys. Holding down the Shift Key increases the rate of movement; using the Control Key slows it way down and gives all the precision I need.

5. This may sound odd, but I'd like to have a less-than-perfect weapons officer. I don't like having to either do all the torpedo work myself, or having the weapons officer do it perfectly. That officer (if not all the officers) should have a skill level that could increase with time, that effects his accuracy. Just having an officer who's accuracy could be off by as much as 5% could make a huge difference in making a torpedo attack--am I more accurate than my own weapons officer? Would my decision change if I thought my officer would become more accurate by letting him do it, even if it meant missing with this attack?
Not only does it NOT sound odd, but many people have mentioned it before. I agree; a less-than-perfect XO/Weapons Officer would be a wonderful addition.

6. I mentioned this in another thread, but more flexability with the realism options, and to know more about what each option means in game terms. For example, I find the "god map mode" or whatever it's called (where every ship in view of your sub is located accurately on the nave map) to be way too easy, but I also occasionally find "no god mode" too difficult. I'd like a middle option, say something where bearing lines are placed on the map instead of completely accutate postings, a middle option between god mode and no god mode. Just having three settings instead of two ("easy" "medium" and "realistic") would be nice. I like options, and the ability to tailor the realism more to what I want to play at that moment, as I often use different settings at different times, depending on my mood.
Have you tried the Assisted Plotting Mod? For me it does exactly what you describe. Again I agree; it would be nice to see something like that implemented in the game.

[MENTAT]

Sorry if those are mentioned before, after reading 2 pages i assumed 8 pages will take forever to read.:)

NOT BOUND TO SINGLE NATION.
PLease please and please let multiple nations available to be choosen by player. I want to play as japan and throw some oxygen torpedoes on yanks! If all the world is playable then it will be a true masterpiece for i will jump on my IX and head for philipines!!! (By this way more historical missions will be available like carrying uranium to japan with an IX)

CREW MANAGEMENT.
It would be nice to see Panic factor added. Damage control parties should be more flexible and could be dividable. (mentioned before) these are essential. And if its gonna be realistic, food supply factor must be added. Fuel is not the only limit in a sub. Also i agree the idea that offers not to bother each and every crew i shall place to their stations. It must be done by a petty officer or something. ship medic must be made a more needed charecter(diseases, lice).

*Damage situations should be improved: Flooding must be visually animated to see show the player its severity. In crew management screen players should be able to see flooding level and Maybe a compartment must be able to be closed to control flooding etc. Damage control teams must be represented (preferely animated) on the submarine map, which compartment they are in and how many people are working with pumps, and how many are struggling with repairs etc.

MORE ANIMATIONS.
*For eye candy is important for the most of the people playing this game, i suggest More animationssss.. i want to see my crew taking in the gigantic torpedo from outside to inside, i want to see them with my own eyes! I want to see minor repairs on the deck while patrol goes on sea animated, and most importantly, it must take some time to man the deck gun, or to go up in bridge or to clear the bridge... Its almost done instantaneously in SH3.
*For exterior(3D) animations as stated above, in addition to that i prefer to see lots of 2D animations on the submarine map, (Crew management screen) people are doing their jobs, maintanances, eating meals, cleaning, repairing, sleeping... struggling with damages (when flooding) climbing to the bridge or manning the deck gun one by one (removing the taps from weapons) carrying ammunition from below to the deck etc. It will be fabilous to see them that way as it will give you the feeling "There are living people in this boat" Actually this feeling of "commanding a living structure" will change things a lot. Since they are 2D, i belive they are much more easier and quicker to create.

FULLY AVAILABLE INTERIOR.
Players should be able to move in the entire boat. To see people in action. See damage & flooding in place.

WIDE VARIETY OF OPTIONS.
Please improve the relism settings, add more and more options to the players, also i still insist that players should be given an option to play more "hollywood style". Give them the option to choose "historical timeline" or "hollywood style" in the options screen(at the start of a new campaign) . Shortly, in hollywood style, Increase the variety of upgrades. Let them to choose their ammunition for flak, replace torpedoes for mines for mining missions. The ability to remove deck-gun for room for additional batteries? Experimental weapons (YES) and equipment :up: awards for most extraordinary succeses. YEA! There has to be a way to get those new babies before its time!!!

*There must be better ways of spending renowns. Create ultimate desires to strive for! Nothing is out of reach in SH3! Air strike calls? Air supplies? (Ok dont laugh but why not in a hollywood style game?)

*Let players to spend some time between patrols, put a nightclub in base, let commanders to have some choices to increase their crews morale in a limited time in a wide range of options spending Renown/prestige points on some activites for motivation. (morale factor must be a parameter a captain is worried about)

DONT LEAVE ME ALONE.
More of War news, (especially back in base as well as radio messages) i want to feel that there is a living world around me.
*Harbour traffic, welcome parties, (we shouldnt be needing a mod for these:( )
*Wolfpacs!! (Yea i know its been mentioned before so i wont again)
*Dynamic campaign that will make you go again again!!
*instant coming ops. during patrols (i know its been covered.)
*Make "transfers" tricky. It should have a backdraw as well as its benefits. Loose some crew? Costs renowns? better nightclubs at base? Anyway what renowns are for?
*I still insist on to have an effect on the course of history. (I have mentioned it in some of my posts before) "Do I have an effect on the course of War?" Player must be given the chance to be able to change the course of history. The most important lack of SH3 is the "Player is striving for his success in a war that is already lost" (Make it optional if you wish for those who are against this feature) Besides, We all know that Donitz have briefed his Uboat captains personally after their patrols. So U-boat captains did know what was going on in the big picture.

Thanx for the patiance fellas :smug:

[Agrippa]

Just a few comments on Mentat's post.


NOT BOUND TO SINGLE NATION.


I've said in another post that my dream WWII sub sim would simulate all the subfairing nations and the entire world. Then you'd be able to do careers as a German, British, American, Japanese, or Russian sub captain. Or even the possibility to mix and match careers and subs--do you like russian subs but find the Russian career boring? Go outside historical boundries and use a russian sub in the German or American campaigns.

However, this might take forever to impliment. Let Silent Hunter IV be just American subs in the Pacific. With SH3 and SH4 simulating the two most intersting sub campaigns in WWII, and doing it well (assuming SH4 is at least as good as 3, which it should be), means that for Silent hunger 5 (or whatever they want to call it) could experiment with adding additional nations in a single game.


CREW MANAGEMENT


I somewhat agree with this, particularly about the medic being more important, and the addition of food being a consumable resourse limiting how long a sub can stay at sea without being supplied. I also like more detail with damage (I liked in Silent Hunter 1 that it showed flooding in the batteries, requiring you to surface to avoid chlorine gas poisoning), and the sub scematic should be more detalied than in SH3, with just 7 or 8 compartments being detailed.


FULLY AVAILABLE INTERIOR.


I actually disagree with this one. coding this will take a long time and chew up a lot of computer resources, considering they'd have to make 3-D interiors for every sub class. I also consider it unnecessary. This is a game, and though I hope it can be as realistic as possible (with options to tone down the realism), there is only so much they can do.


DONT LEAVE ME ALONE


Definitely more war news. Actually, if the map at extremely zoomed out levels was shaded to show Japanese control of land and the ocean, it would be cool to watch it expand and contract. Or, the addition of more cities to the map to show the progress of Japanese conquest. Plus the occasional newsreel when in port for the really important news (battle of Midway, landing in the Philippines, etc.) would be cool.

I'm glad Mentat mentioned the campaign mode. It's something we should insist on, though I suppose we just assume that they will do this. But I couldn't believe they shipped SH2 without a dynamic campaign, I really didn't understand how they could leave that out, and that's why I didn't buy that game. We shouldn't just take it for granted that the developers won't make the same mistake again.

Making transfers tricky would be good, although you should be able to spend more renown to prevent any drawbacks that accrue. For example, let's say that you do a transfer, but a third of your crew will be taken from you if you do--you should be able to spend renown to sort of buy these crewmen back, to keep them with you. This means that you just can't transfer somewhere, for free, upgrade to a new and better sub, then transfer back to where you were, because it would require renown for these moves not to rob you of experienced crewmen.

I disagree on the ability to effect the course of the war. I think that the realism of hte game should be customizable, but having a single submarine decide the course of the war is too much in my view. When I want to effect the course of the whole conflict, I'll play matrixgames' World at War or something similar. The point of sim games is not to have the entire war revolve around you, but to see how successful you can be facing some of the problems and challenges that sub captains faced. In SH3 I know germany loses the war, and frankly I don't care. The point is to do as much damage as you can while the odds slowly turn against you, then trying to sink ships and survive as long as possible. The US campaign in SH4 will be quite different, but again, I'm not out there to win the war, I'm out there to "do my part."

Hmmm... I've been a bit more verbose than I thought I would be. I'll shut up now.

[Keelbuster]

The majority of the talk so far has been great. I agree.

Here's my wish list:

-1. Don't make SH4 some cheap knock-off. I want a new game. Use the same graphics engine but have some goddamned passion, overhaul the logic and make this game GREAT.

0. HIRE SEVERAL PEOPLE FROM THE SUBSIM MODDING COMMUNITY SO THAT THE DEV TEAM WILL HAVE THE RIGHT ADVISORS. WITH THE RIGHT PEOPLE FROM THIS FORUM, THE ULTIMATE SUBSIM WILL EMERGE!!

1. More diverse missions. This is crucial. SH3's missions were dead. The player had to make it up for themselves every time. 'dynamic' should really mean something this time. Give us co-operative efforts - wolfpacks, special ops, recon, etc, everything that has been said before here on this matter.

2. The play-both-sides thing is great. I love a sim with multiple sides. I LOVE playing for the underdog and ripping ankles with dogteeth.

3. Have a real water/acoustics model something like dangerous waters. Please. At least give us thermal layers.

4. Give me free reign as Kaleun on my sub. I want a first-person shooter-type existence. I WANT TO CLIMB THE LADDER TO THE BRIDGE. I wanna see every part of it, and I want there to be accurate interior damage modelling. A lot of modding has gone into making the damage model real and _interesting_ and I would love to see this on the interior. Make REPAIR more intense - let me have a direct valve-clamping role in it.

5. Optional minigames would make it much better for the realtime folk.

6. And, related, make the crew management more interesting.

7. ALLOW ME TO WRITE MY OWN ENTRIES IN THE KAPITAN'S LOG. I need that. Every kaleun want's to record his/her experiences. Allow us to DL them to text/html.

8. Refer to Wish Zero - if you want to make the real subsim then hire the right people - hire consultants from this forum. DO IT. Only this way will the best game emerge.

KB

[Lionman]

A lot of this will repeat other people's requests but the more votes for a feature the more likely we are to get it.

My Wish list for SH IV so far.

1. Like a great many other consumers I am a gamer largely for social reasons and get great pleasure out of the friendships built up in multiplayer enviroments with buddies. Accordingly my top request/wish for SH IV would be the (MASSIVE) improvement of the online game by permitting multi-crewed submarines in multi-player. i.e 4-5 people in th same sub in various crew roles - Captain, Engineering Officer, Signals Officer, Navigation Officer, Torpedo Officer. This would instantly catapult this game into a legendary success as EVERYBODY will then want to play the multiplayer and that's what publicises and makes any game a super success however good the single player is. This would instantly create a whole range of possible game types in mutliplayer. Single sub against an entirely AI enemy. Two or three allied sub-pack mode against AI surface vessels or enemy subs. Japanese sub against American sub. Or integgrated with a Destroyer Command 2 where the players crewed destroyers and other surface vessels. Like Oleg Maddox with his excellently planned series of integrated combat flight simulators Ubisoft whould be planning ona family of ocean combat sims. Ours is only a niche market because it has not formerly been well catered to or properly marketed. The could become as lucrative a realm for developers as Combat Flight Simualtion, if it was handled with imagination and wish-lists of the gamers who want to buy it are treated as the developer's blueprint

2. The opportunity for FPS style movement inside throughout the boat. I want to be able to "walk" to the engine room along a corridor, squeezing past the animated avatars of crewmen. Walk to the periscope and squat down to grab the handles as it comes up. To climb the ladder into the conning tower, to clamber over the bridge side to reach the deck and deck gun. To stand on deck on the surface at sea.

3. Step-By-Step training missions and Tutorials to ensure rapid learning and practise with all game control functions.

4. Permit one backup so that if your original DVD gets damaged, you can play from a backup. Even better perhaps online registration giving one access to the right to download a fresh copy to the registration email address (perhaps with an incremented serial number to prevent piratical exploitation with mutliple copies) if the original becomes damaged. Simple, cost-effective and safe.

5. Like Safe-Keeper said " "casual" (sound) ambience in normal situations and some other sounds for other situations? Heavy breathing, sobbing, etc. for when the boat is under heave depth charge attacks, screaming and panic when the boat's damaged, etc." Sound makes a really massive difference to immersive realism in any good simulator. If I have a single critisisnm of the (otherwise excellent) raw SH III game it is the "empty world silent boat feeling." I worked for almost 20 years as a North Sea saturation diver (or "Sat-Rat") and can assure you all that the working environments of sub-sea personal are full of constant sound, vibrations, humming engines, creaking bulkheads, hissing pipes, sirens, alarms, timers, shouts, laughter, coughing, etc. Sound "tells you" what is going on subliminally andf is a crucial component in creating or dissapating tension. What is required is an AI controled random sound generator which modifies sound depending on the situation, i.e. depthcharge attacks trigger cries and shouts, asdic triggers murmers and anxious chatter, success triggers cheers, home port in sight triggers collective singing etc. Simialrly the natural reaction of almost all crew members when a searching destroyer is above, is to look up as they listen. Such a function need not occupy much code space or CPU cycles, could be accessible to add-on sound packs and would hugely enhance the ambiance.

6. Sub-sea AI life - shoals of AI fish, sharks, rays, whatever. A "populated" sea instead of a sterile empty world. This could be a random AI generated sprite thing but would greatly improve the realism of the ocean, which already looks good. I also agree that the sea floor needs loads of complex kelp and other textures in shallow waters, and especially around the shore line and inlets. But I have actually personally walked the deep sub-sea floor in reality for many thousands of hours and can attest that it is almost invariable pretty featureless like a rolling golf course of sand and mud, so that doesn't need much changing. I agree that wrecks need to stay there once sunk and gather weed but have no idea how complex or even impossible that might be to implement.

7. As Sailer Steve said (Hi Steve how are ya doin' buddy? Long time no see) I think we need an abandon ship option and never mind all that avoiding "ethical dilema" twaddle we need to see enemy and friendly crews abandonning sinking vessels and taking to life boats. What we do about it in game (if they are the enemy) should remain, as it did for the actual Captains, up to us but with possible "war crimes trial" scripted consequences if survivors are ever gunned in the water. Picking up survivors is seldom going to be an option on a submarine.

8. I would certainly like to see an elaborate manual even if it was a payware extra add-on. (Does anybody remember the gorgeous manual they used to sell with the original Red Baron II WW1 combat flight sim game? That has become a collector's item.) Maybe we could have a slightly more expensive "Commander's Edition" with such extras? But as Drebbel observed, there are a plethora of excellent books for the detailed history. However a general background gloss on WW2 Pacific submarine warfare would be excellent and I believe necessary because although us old salts may know the history don't forget that the majority of gaming industry consumers are still kids many of whom will never to read books about anything. Games can and do educate as the Pentagon have clearly grasped with their clever investment in their free (effectively training) FPS game AAO.

9. As MP said "I would just love to have a SIM . . . . which makes you go WOW once in a while. SH3 had this effect initially, but then you noticed where the game was lacking. Again IMO this was graphically, so I guess im asking the devs to build a sim which comes close to a movie. I think the hardware is there, now I'd like to see the software." I agree 100% I love SH III but the crew men's faces look like bad dummies and I want to believe I am looking at a human being not reminded that I am in a game. It can be done in most modern FPS games so why not in SH IV?

10. Maybe I am just a dumb bunny or having Homer Simpson finger problems but in SH III I find it far from simple to either load new songs or radio chatter to the gramphone function or adjust it so that i can even hear it over the game sounds. So a better "add music or radio programs" function for SH IV please.

11. I love all that stuff about the commisary and odering stores and loading them too. It gives one a real sense of embarking on a voyage. I also agree with being able to write one's own Captains log, draw on charts, better navigation instruments etc.

As for the eye candy vs game model argument - I believe this is just the expression of a common and long-standing bigotry on the part of a certain type of player. 20 years ago the same guys were dismissing Windows and GUI's as "eyecandy" and extolling the superiority of DOS! Thank goodness more sensual heads prevailed and as a consequence we now have the increasingly amazing realism of today's virtuality which improves every year, thanks mainly to the demands of gamers such as ourselves. I was the guy who first asked for seagulls in SH III! After all they tell you when land is within 10 miles and where subs dump their garbage, so they are actually valuable navigation aids at sea!

I have a confession to make.

Having spent a working career offshore, mostly in the North Sea, the realism of the stormy weather in SH III is sooooooooo nostalgic for me that I actually go for long voyages in stormy weather, especially at night, with driving rain and waves breaking over the bridge in SH III. That is about the biggest compliment I can give the game as a simulation. I could never do that in SH 2 or 1 or any other subsim. What makes SH III so marvellously immersive isn't the rivet by rivet accuracy of the boats, or the detailed accuracy of the game model. What makes it addictively immersive is the sheer "cinema" of it, the feeling of "being there". Being able to move around inside the whole vessel, having animated AI crew who go about their business and have to be navigated around - all that will increase the feeling of "being there" even more, as would multi-crewed subs in multiplayer. THAT'S what will make SH 4 a huge success. MORE cinematic realism, FPS style freedom of motion etc. These things are NOT as some dry folk claim just "a waste of CPU cycles" - they are the difference between just another schematic strategic chess game and an immersive masterpiece.

Having said that I have to add this. In the flight sim realm MS CFS 3 was MS attempt to compete with Oleg Maddox's exceptionally well researched and well constructed IL2 Sturmovik, FB,AEP,PF series of WW2 combat sims. They failed UTTERLY and put themselves out of the market, probably for good. Why did they fail? Because their own market analysts suffered the "eye-candy" bigotry and cynically assumed that "all the gamers want is more eye candy". So they added layers of slick surface to a basically out of date and poor game engine. Result. Total failure. So the game under the skin has to be EXCELLENT and that means having developers read every line of these forums and see how they can address all the complaints and issues raised. Admittedly the gamer's wish-lists will always exceed the possible but so what? Our job is to ask for the moon. That way we get at least halfway there.

We gamers are not fools. We are perhaps the most demanding, technically well-educated, knowledgable and enthusiastic sector of consumers in the history of computing. We are now also a major online community, have massive buying power, are highly aware of each other's needs and experiences, provide bottomless supplies of our own marketing requirements free, to developers (in Forums like this) so they don't even have to leave their desks to research their market and we are prepared to spend large sums on peripherals like joysticks, pedals, Track IR, 3D glasses, flat screens, motion chairs etc. If they handle it right they can spawn a whole new market sector the way the MS FS series of civilian flight simulators has. How many companies offer payware add-ons now for that? The game world apparently now turns over more than Hollywood because we are the folk who spend £33 or $50 a ticket.

So ask for EXACTLY what you want guys. The companies who produce it will get our bucks, our loyalty and our praise and hell, we'll do most of their promotion for them for free, by word of mouth. SH III was their "test run". Now they KNOW there is a huge market out there and if they make a GREAT (and scaleable) cinematic game which can be played online by arcade freaks and history buffs alike we will buy it in huge numbers plus all it's add-ons and sequels.

[JU_88]

Improve aircraft!

Models need to be higher res and higher poly for sure! (look at the planes in Pt boats: KOTS)

Aircraft need better AI, its way too simplistic in SH3.

Aircraft should have more vaired ordenance! (torpedos, rockets etc)

Please reserch Japanese and U.S Pacific planes properly before you model them in to the game, The presents of the Hurricane and P38 Lightning (combined with the lack of the Hudson and beaufighter) in SH3 shows signs of really sloppy reserch!


AI submarines for both sides!

Japanese, Us and british subs should be present in the game, The player should not be the only submarine in the whole world!


Landscape

Please take the time to model more cities and and land marks for coastal areas, around the Pacific. Some impressive cliff faces and rock formations would be nice, In sh3 - players often sailed to exotic locations for fun! please give us something worth seeing as a reward for our long travels!:up:

[Safe-Keeper]

Like a great many other consumers I am a gamer largely for social reasons and get great pleasure out of the friendships built up in multiplayer enviroments with buddies. Accordingly my top request/wish for SH IV would be the (MASSIVE) improvement of the online game by permitting multi-crewed submarines in multi-player. i.e 4-5 people in th same sub in various crew roles - Captain, Engineering Officer, Signals Officer, Navigation Officer, Torpedo Officer. This would instantly catapult this game into a legendary success as EVERYBODY will then want to play the multiplayer and that's what publicises and makes any game a super success however good the single player is. This would instantly create a whole range of possible game types in mutliplayer. Single sub against an entirely AI enemy. Two or three allied sub-pack mode against AI surface vessels or enemy subs. Japanese sub against American sub. Or integgrated with a Destroyer Command 2 where the players crewed destroyers and other surface vessels. Like Oleg Maddox with his excellently planned series of integrated combat flight simulators Ubisoft whould be planning ona family of ocean combat sims. Ours is only a niche market because it has not formerly been well catered to or properly marketed. The could become as lucrative a realm for developers as Combat Flight Simualtion, if it was handled with imagination and wish-lists of the gamers who want to buy it are treated as the developer's blueprintIt'd be very interesting. I don't know how it'd handle, and I'm not crazy about it, but I'd try it if it was implemented.

3. Step-By-Step training missions and Tutorials to ensure rapid learning and practise with all game control functions.Absolutely. Much, much better than video tutorials.

I'd also like "advanced" tutorials in addition to the basic ones. I don't know, maybe a "stealth" totorial, an "escape-from-furious-destroyer" tutorial, etc.? You get my point.

4. Permit one backup so that if your original DVD gets damaged, you can play from a backup. Even better perhaps online registration giving one access to the right to download a fresh copy to the registration email address (perhaps with an incremented serial number to prevent piratical exploitation with mutliple copies) if the original becomes damaged. Simple, cost-effective and safe.Back-ups are essential (as I learned the hard way when my doggie bit my Battlecruiser Millenium Gold Edition CD in two:cry:). The problem is finding a pirate-safe way of doing it.

5. Like Safe-Keeper said " "casual" (sound) ambience in normal situations and some other sounds for other situations? Heavy breathing, sobbing, etc. for when the boat is under heave depth charge attacks, screaming and panic when the boat's damaged, etc." Sound makes a really massive difference to immersive realism in any good simulator. If I have a single critisisnm of the (otherwise excellent) raw SH III game it is the "empty world silent boat feeling." I worked for almost 20 years as a North Sea saturation diver (or "Sat-Rat") and can assure you all that the working environments of sub-sea personal are full of constant sound, vibrations, humming engines, creaking bulkheads, hissing pipes, sirens, alarms, timers, shouts, laughter, coughing, etc. Sound "tells you" what is going on subliminally andf is a crucial component in creating or dissapating tension. What is required is an AI controled random sound generator which modifies sound depending on the situation, i.e. depthcharge attacks trigger cries and shouts, asdic triggers murmers and anxious chatter, success triggers cheers, home port in sight triggers collective singing etc. Simialrly the natural reaction of almost all crew members when a searching destroyer is above, is to look up as they listen. Such a function need not occupy much code space or CPU cycles, could be accessible to add-on sound packs and would hugely enhance the ambiance.Very good ideas, there, I think. I like how in Grey Wolves they had this cheer whenever I hit/sunk a ship (I'm less happy about the "silence!"-shout at the end, though:p). Have some random cheers go off when there's a reason to cheer, have people shout when they should, have them duck when they should, etc.

Look at the bombed-in-Gibraltar scene in Das Boot. Think about how all the yelling, screams of pain, etc. add to the atmosphere. While in Silent Hunter III it'd have been something like: "-Aircraft sighted. -Crash dive! -Surface. -Medic! -New course one-eight-zero." Yawn:shifty:.

6. Sub-sea AI life - shoals of AI fish, sharks, rays, whatever. A "populated" sea instead of a sterile empty world. This could be a random AI generated sprite thing but would greatly improve the realism of the ocean, which already looks good. I also agree that the sea floor needs loads of complex kelp and other textures in shallow waters, and especially around the shore line and inlets. But I have actually personally walked the deep sub-sea floor in reality for many thousands of hours and can attest that it is almost invariable pretty featureless like a rolling golf course of sand and mud, so that doesn't need much changing. I agree that wrecks need to stay there once sunk and gather weed but have no idea how complex or even impossible that might be to implement.The funny thing about this one is that I didn't get how important it was until I saw it in Grey Wolves, in the form of dolphins in this a Spanish harbour.

7. As Sailer Steve said (Hi Steve how are ya doin' buddy? Long time no see) I think we need an abandon ship option and never mind all that avoiding "ethical dilema" twaddle we need to see enemy and friendly crews abandonning sinking vessels and taking to life boats. What we do about it in game (if they are the enemy) should remain, as it did for the actual Captains, up to us but with possible "war crimes trial" scripted consequences if survivors are ever gunned in the water. Picking up survivors is seldom going to be an option on a submarine.Indeed. If some twisted soul finds joy in gunning up survivors, implement court martial. Or simply remove the collision meshes of survivors so that you can't shoot them, which'd be much better as it'd save considerable CPU power.

8. I would certainly like to see an elaborate manual even if it was a payware extra add-on. (Does anybody remember the gorgeous manual they used to sell with the original Red Baron II WW1 combat flight sim game? That has become a collector's item.) Maybe we could have a slightly more expensive "Commander's Edition" with such extras? But as Drebbel observed, there are a plethora of excellent books for the detailed history. However a general background gloss on WW2 Pacific submarine warfare would be excellent and I believe necessary because although us old salts may know the history don't forget that the majority of gaming industry consumers are still kids many of whom will never to read books about anything. Games can and do educate as the Pentagon have clearly grasped with their clever investment in their free (effectively training) FPS game AAO.Kudos.

10. Maybe I am just a dumb bunny or having Homer Simpson finger problems but in SH III I find it far from simple to either load new songs or radio chatter to the gramphone function or adjust it so that i can even hear it over the game sounds. So a better "add music or radio programs" function for SH IV please.The gramophone annoys me no end. There should be Randomize options and the ability to switch directly from one track to another. Gramophones were not MP3 players.

As for the eye candy vs game model argument - I believe this is just the expression of a common and long-standing bigotry on the part of a certain type of player. 20 years ago the same guys were dismissing Windows and GUI's as "eyecandy" and extolling the superiority of DOS! Thank goodness more sensual heads prevailed and as a consequence we now have the increasingly amazing realism of today's virtuality which improves every year, thanks mainly to the demands of gamers such as ourselves. I was the guy who first asked for seagulls in SH III! After all they tell you when land is within 10 miles and where subs dump their garbage, so they are actually valuable navigation aids at sea!As long as there's an option to tone graphics down, I don't mind it. Just keep in mind that we aren't all playing this game on TRANSLTR:p.

I have a confession to make.Ye-haa:D! Let's hear it:arrgh!:!

Having spent a working career offshore, mostly in the North Sea, the realism of the stormy weather in SH III is sooooooooo nostalgic for me that I actually go for long voyages in stormy weather, especially at night, with driving rain and waves breaking over the bridge in SH III. That is about the biggest compliment I can give the game as a simulation. I could never do that in SH 2 or 1 or any other subsim. What makes SH III so marvellously immersive isn't the rivet by rivet accuracy of the boats, or the detailed accuracy of the game model. What makes it addictively immersive is the sheer "cinema" of it, the feeling of "being there". Being able to move around inside the whole vessel, having animated AI crew who go about their business and have to be navigated around - all that will increase the feeling of "being there" even more, as would multi-crewed subs in multiplayer. THAT'S what will make SH 4 a huge success. MORE cinematic realism, FPS style freedom of motion etc. These things are NOT as some dry folk claim just "a waste of CPU cycles" - they are the difference between just another schematic strategic chess game and an immersive masterpiece.Good confession:cool:.

So the game under the skin has to be EXCELLENT and that means having developers read every line of these forums and see how they can address all the complaints and issues raised. I'd be very, very disappointed if it turned out that the developers don't keep track of what we write here.

A lot of this will repeat other people's requests but the more votes for a feature the more likely we are to get it.
I don't know if spamming is such a good idea, but as I've made myself guilty of it a few times myself, what can I say:o?

[cornishman]

My wish list part 1....

Better ship sinking noises with hull compartments booming like AOTD.

Marine life noises every now and then, through hull and on hydrophone.

Crew noises, laughter, chatting in background. Just general human/ boat noise. Don't have to see many more crew just hear them really.

Better gramophone capabilities, one that doesn't crash to desktop would be nice.

A decent SDK so the mod community can add stuff, gawd bless 'em! They're the ones that made SH3 long term playable, for me.

A realistic navigation mode, shooting stars and sun and stuff. I've wanted this in a naval sim forever and a day.

Fully walkable boat, even if the the extra compartments were generic. Also I would love to walk topside from bow to stern.

No instant ship sunk message, at least wait for it to have sunk a reasonable way or hit bottom.

A good large detailed NAUTICAL printed map of the era would be nice, even if it was for a special edition version. Still have mine from AOTD.

A printed ship recognition manual and one of those slide rule wheely things. I know I'm pushing my luck here, but again in a special edition version for the hardcore guys. And no, I don't want a blummin t-shirt.

As said before, a decent sub skipper college before passing out to fleet service.

A couple of decent death scene movies, or at least the ability to add them so we could make our own and put in.

Make me feel like I'm in the Pacific theatre.

Sorry if any of these are repeated.

[Safe-Keeper]

OK, everyone who's played Silent Hunter III knows how hard it is to set accurate courses, etc. with the gauges. For a long time I wanted to be able to just click on the number below the gauge and type in the number I wanted. But then I had this idea: Ordering accurate headings, speeds and depths by holding a keyboard "hot-key" and then typing the value in. A simple, easy, time-effective way to do it.

For example:
H+150: Set heading to 150°.
S+3: Set speed to 3 knots.
D+90: Set depth to 90 metres (or feet, seeing it's a US-theatres game:-??).

And while I'm at it, some advanced options, such as:
C+110: Crash-dive to 110 metres.
E+300: Engage target with deck gun at 300 metres.
F+50: Engage aircraft with flak at 50 metres.
Shift+1-9: Set throttle of port propeller(s).
Control+1-9: Set throttle of starboard propeller(s).

In effect (examples):
● Holding "H" while typing "0" sets course to Due North (0°).
● To execute a sharp turn, hit "5", then "Shift+5" to set the engines to flank speed and the starboard engine to full stop.

What do you think (about the idea in general. The choice of buttons might be less than perfect:p)?

Another suggestion: Split the "Blow Ballast" order in two: "Blow Ballast" (which blows and nothing else), and "Emergency Surface", which blows ballast tanks, sets new depth to zero, and sets engines to Ahead Flank.

Or, of course, you could hold the "Blow Ballast" hot key and type in a number to blow ballast and try to go to that depth:).

On cornishman's ideas:Better ship sinking noises with hull compartments booming like AOTD.Really. That'd be great:).

Marine lifeYup, and not just the sounds either, but actual models (for dolphins, whales, etc.) and sprites (for fish, sea-stars and the likes). When I saw those dolphins in Grey wolves, I realized how much this'd add to the atmosphere. And maybe truly inexperienced sonar people could mistake certain marine life for actual contacts?

Better gramophone capabilities, one that doesn't crash to desktop would be nice.Excellent put:D!

A realistic navigation mode, shooting stars and sun and stuff. I've wanted this in a naval sim forever and a day.And a dynamic lighting-aurora borealis, in various strenghts and shape. Picture your boat near Alaska under the green curtains of the Northern Light...

No instant ship sunk message, at least wait for it to have sunk a reasonable way or hit bottom. Make it realistic and I'm happy.

A good large detailed NAUTICAL printed map of the era would be nice, even if it was for a special edition version. Still have mine from AOTD.Improving the look of the charts wouldn't hurt the least bit.


A printed ship recognition manual and one of those slide rule wheely things. I know I'm pushing my luck here, but again in a special edition version for the hardcore guys. And no, I don't want a blummin t-shirt.More documentation would be nice, as would a Commander's edition. A printed recognition manual might be pushing your luck, though. I think it's better to ask for a table with the stats of all the ships or something?

[Fer32]

Im reading a book about subs in WW2 and the crew mostly comunicate by microphone between compartiments but in SH3 we have just voices that always talk very near. I would like to hear a "microphone type" of voices. Dont be mad if is a dumb idea. Im new here:lol:

[Sailor Steve]

It's a dumb idea and I'm mad:x

No, actually it's a good idea. Usually someone else was doing the communicating-he would have a voice-tube or sound-powered phones, so he would relay any messages to the captain, so you would likely only hear the nearby voices. Still, as I said, it might be cool to hear voices from other compartments come through all tinny and 'speakerish'.

Oh, and welcome aboard.

[Drebbel]

- Be able so assing watches to "scope duty". Also when SURFACED, so I can ride "high scope" and use the scope to extend the horizon. As was normal practice on US subs.

When I go to the scope myself the crew member that has scope duty is automatically taken of that duty, when I leave scope, and scope duty is till ON, then he automatically returns doing scope duty.

Ideal would be if I could set how he had to behave. By setting the number of time per hour he should search around with the scope.

- Be able to set battle stations, so all people go where needed and I do not need to worry about any station being under manned.

[Payoff]

One Word . . . . . . . .SHARKS . . . . and yes I will take another piece of eye candy thankyou.:lurk:

Actually, I would think this could be included in much the same way as the seagulls in SHIII, using a trigger to make one or two circle the boat at a harbour entrance say, or somewhere that the player is likely to transit. Could be dolphins, sharks...whatever. Nothing fancy, just here and there to breathe a little life into an otherwise lifeless ocean. I know when I lived in Alaska the wild porpoises loved to swim alongside, and under the boat from side to side. Just a thought.


BTW I really like Drebbel's "Scope Duty" idea.

[Dietrich]

Mostly to add my vote to suggestions that have already been made:

Walk-through U-Boat - both inside and on deck. And fill the U-boat with more crew doing routine things and reacting to battle/damage stations.
More interesting campaign missions. Something better than "Patrol <some random grid>" over and over (mines, agent-drops, cargo-hauls, timed rendezvous, etc.).
Better crew management. Be able to draw up some set rosters and have them automatically change/rotate if left alone.
Make success/failure count. Does a single boat make a difference? Well it does if you can engage the imagination of the Führer to divert money into the U-Waffe, or if you let your boat (with Enigma machine and code books) be captured.
Multiplayer-vs-multiplayer. And escort group vs a wolf-pack would be awesome.
False alarms. Sometimes the crew get edgy and over-react. A shadow or a cloud is interpretted as a contact, and the boat crash dives.What we DO NOT need... (these suggestions have been made, but I disagree)

Sub-vs-sub. A single torpedo and it's game-over. (This is why there are no SQUIDs in SHIII - the Dev's even said so in their interviews).
Underwater marine life. Maybe hearing distant whales would be nice, but don't waste development effort for something that you never would have seen. The seagulls are cute, but we don't need full models of turtles/sharks/jellyfish/etc.. If it makes the ocean lonely, well... it sort of was.PS: Sorry for using Atlantic Theatre terms, but I just don't know anything about the Pacific, and I figure the experts will know what I mean.

[AlphaInfinity]

THe others in this thread have covered all the topics well. My ONLY wish is that SH supports WIDE SCREEN formats at HIGH RESOLUTIONS!!!


:p

[Pantera222]

I haven't had a chance to read through all the replies to this thread so I appologise if it's already been mentioned a few times already but i think it would be grerat to have a Multi Player option where serveral players could crew a single Uboat.

With the technology available today such as in game VOIP, etc, it would be bring an entirely new layer of exitment to an already great sim.

Perhaps multiple, crewed uboats could have a "last man staning" type of match or work in congunction to take out a major convoy.

There could also be a type of on line ranking system (such as in BF2) where you could earn points, reconition for sunk tonnage, etc.

[jason210]

1st person walkabout, as opposed to fixed camera viewpoints. That's all I want to see.

[UnterSeeTub]

hmmm I have a few

Use of deck gun in rougher waters -- I dont agree with the current setting --- sometimes it aint all that rough and the waves are fairly shallow and SH3 wont let you use the deck gun (FFS) - I as KapitanLeutenant "Order" you to go out there - get wet and use the deck gun ....OK ! :smug:


More options in game -- so if you wish to be a realist you can go ahead and knock yerself out -- If not.. you can get funky with anything ... Like have a Los Angeles class sub in 1942 :yep:

Mission editor that can turn off campaign -- so you have purely your mission programmed - no other ships aircraft or anything messign up my mission design.... thank you. :down:

Mission editor that ignores all date sensitivity - or you can check a box that says "ignore date related items" ... I am fed up of choosing ships for a task force just to get some tossing purile grey error meessage telling me one ship was built before the other so cant group up ........ SO WHAT -- If I say hook em up I MEAN HOOK EM UP - SO SCREW THE DATES ...... OK ! :shifty:

[mortakos]

i would also like the idea of electric motors when surfaced.it should be also good to comm whth other boats of our side so they can help us with large convoys.selecting one engine to run will also benefit captains managing the fuel.

[Razman23]

Faster Game Load Times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vodkaphile]

My biggest wish is a complete game with all the little details. I want a SIM not an arcade game posing to be a sim.

I want to be able to run on electric on the surface, I want bilge pumps, food supply...details details details.



Then after all these details I want someone to mod it to the atlantic as uboots.:P
(seriously though, it'd be nice if it 'added on' to SH3 kinda like the il2 series)



Also the ability to pilot destroyers, etc would be great if only for multiplayer.

[Sailor Steve]

Then after all these details I want someone to mod it to the atlantic as uboots.:P
(seriously though, it'd be nice if it 'added on' to SH3 kinda like the il2 series)
Well said. That one's been said many times before, but it still can't be said enough. Any 'fixes' to SHIV have to be retrofitted to SHIII.:rock:

[VipertheSniper]

What I would really like to see in SH IV would be the surface of the sea, being transparent. I mean the color of the water will give the surface the color and you can still see you're sub through the water from above...

I mean when you hold your finger in muddy waters you can still see it underwater, eventhough when you look at the rest you'll only see a brown surface.

[Gustav]

Hey guys,

Just in case the boys at Ubisoft ever visit this forum (and it would be a little disconcerting if they didn't) I'd like to echo the following points.

1. If it has to be a Pacific TO then at the very least represent all those allied nations actively involved in the campaign i.e. don't ignor the British and Dutch boats operating out of Ceylon and Fremantle.

2. Improved weather / sea states inc. currents (a pretty big factor when running out of a shallow channel after a long night of fun and games)

3. Greater flexibility and option wrt crew management. (assign members to various duty watches and action stations - perhaps even look at options for captains orders i.e. action on sightings etc.)

4. AMBIENCE! crew chatter / whispers depending upon patrol state ocean / weather sound effects, electro-mechanical sound effects.

Well that's my 10c. Other than that I suspect we will not be dissappointed when the much awaited day of release finally comes and until then I'll just keep dreaming...

[the_epee_fencer]

In addition to everything previously mentioned... the only thing that I can think of to make SHIV complete is an accurate US diving procedure. I miss the old 2-klaxon blasts & the "Dive, dive!". If this is were to be done, I think my life would be complete :) heh

[WolfgangU421]

There have some great suggestions. Like quite a few others I would like to be able to move through the submarine and watch the crew either at rest or loading torpedoes etc and be able to set watch periods for the crew. Lets not get too carried away with the latest graphics machines. Great if you have the money to upgrade every time there is an improvement but I am sure there are many like myself (I'm a pensioner)who can't afford this,:nope: so if you are going to improve the graphics please make sure that the game can be played with at least some of the older cards.

Wolfie:lol:

[pythos]

Captain Nemo's Nautilus!!!

Don't fire a torpedo, be a torpedo! And not one of those nutjob Kaiten either.

The Disney version would be nice.

[Alan]

Will it be usuing the standard horn contact moored mines in shallow water or in enemy bases,that you can see if you track your sub under water to make it more realistic or on attack routes...:hmm: