View Full Version : We do not want StarForce in SH4!!!
Zachstar
12-16-05, 07:48 PM
Let your voice be heard if you agree that SF has been nothing but bad for UBI and SH3 then say it here.
The goal is to let UBI once and for all we no longer support this type of guilty until proven innocent scheme SF does. We no longer accept the damage it does to our drives.
And on and on
Post as little or as lot as you like but let us be heard! NOW is the perfect time to let them know how we fell before production begins.
goldorak
12-16-05, 08:14 PM
I agree 100% with you, I didn't buy nor played SH III because of Starforce 3.
It was a real pity I had to pass on this excellent game, but thats the way it is.
Lets hope Ubisoft sees their customers in a more positive light for SH IV otherwise I'll continue regretfully to not buying nor playing SH IV.
As for those that condone the use of starfoce protection, it acts in exactly the same way as malware software.
Think of Sony rootkit and on the same level (a little little bit less intrusive) you have Starforce.
Noone wants SF anywhere. And I still wager that, unless Starforce the company suddenly cracks and goes down, there's at least a 90% chance we'll still have to deal with it.
It's not gonna affect my own decision, since it didn't affect my PC, but I know for a fact a lot of people are going to be turned off SHIII by starforce.
For a game without mass popularity, like SHIII, starforce really hurts sales. I wish Ubi would realize that.
***
But one thing to emphasize - please don't associate SF with the development of SHIII/IV and/or the Devs. Having no influence whatsoever over this aspect of the game, they shouldn't have to hear about it. When we get to the 'wishlist' stage, please don't pester the devs about SF. :hmm:
Marhkimov
12-16-05, 08:22 PM
OT, but nice sketch CCIP... Did you draw that?
and boo to starforce. :down:
goldorak
12-16-05, 08:26 PM
But one thing to emphasize - please don't associate SF with the development of SHIII/IV and/or the Devs. Having no influence whatsoever over this aspect of the game, they shouldn't have to hear about it. When we get to the 'wishlist' stage, please don't pester the devs about SF. :hmm:
You are wrong on this respect, its the same thing as saying that music artists should only concentrate on music and letting the music companies decide what kind of copy protection to put on the artists cd.
Protections which can cripple computers.
Now at least in the music industry after Sony rootkits fiasco, artists are starting to listen to their customers and have begun to discuss copy protection issues with the music labels.
The same thing has to happen in the videogames industry.
Developers cannot ignore the problems copy protection has on customers pc's and they (the developers) should have a say on what kind/and or what level of copy protection their publisher should put on the final cd.
OT, but nice sketch CCIP... Did you draw that?
Yea.
In memory of my long WaW career I lost yesterday *sniff* :dead:
***
You are wrong on this respect, its the same thing as saying that music artists should only concentrate on music and letting the music companies decide what kind of copy protection to put on the artists cd.
Protections which can cripple computers.
Now at least in the music industry after Sony rootkits fiasco, artists are starting to listen to their customers and have begun to discuss copy protection issues with the music labels.
The same thing has to happen in the videogames industry. Developers cannot ignore the problems copy protection has on customers pc's and they (the developers) should have a say on what kind/and or what level of copy protection their publisher should put on the final cd.
I'm not saying they should ignore it. And they'd have to be pretty stupid not to be aware of the problem. What I really meant is that we shouldn't get 50 threads of "Devs please don't put starforce in the game!" Realistically speaking, they're under Ubi's contract, not the other way around, and it's Ubi that we should really complain about.
Otherwise, hey. I'd sign any serious petition to Ubi agaist Starforce without a second thought :)
Strangely, a lot of popular new games don't use any protection at all, from what I observe. :hmm:
Marhkimov
12-16-05, 08:30 PM
That's a beautiful drawing. Great job! :up:
goldorak
12-16-05, 08:31 PM
Strangely, a lot of popular new games don't use any protection at all, from what I observe. :hmm:
And the real deal is that those games are selling very very well.
Sure you find them on the various p2p but people still buy them because they want to support the developers.
I know that I respect and support a Developer/Publisher which doesn't treat it customers as criminals.
MarkShot
12-16-05, 09:12 PM
Since SH3 came out and got me interested in WWII subs ... I bought CAOD, SH1, SH2, and paid to download SH2 mods from Subsim. However, I did not purchase SH3 nor will I purchase SH4 if it has Starforce. If it means that I am still playing AOD in 2010, then fine. Or if newer computers cannot run the older games, then fine. I have drawn the line on acceptable behavior by a game developer/publisher and will live by those principles.
Zachstar
12-16-05, 09:44 PM
What yall can do to help is put some sort of NO! StarForce IN SH4 image or text into your sig.
You dont have to use mine matter of fact I think mine sucks and hope the artists here make much better ones.
Ya it does seem copy projection is starting to fall out. I guess it finally hit you cant stop copying by using the ole "Guilty till proven Innocent" scheme.
Lets hope to see massive sales of SH4 that is clean of SF or any of this malware.
Oh nice fact about the sony rootkit. Nice to see thugs exposed like this.
JohnnyPotPie
12-16-05, 10:36 PM
ok starforce does damage to my drive? WTH!!! :stare:
Zachstar
12-16-05, 11:30 PM
uhh ya ever notice how your drive revs alot when its being checked? May be different on yours but its does serious reving on only one disc when it is loading SH3 yes thats the SH3 disc itself.
This checking means you leave the disc in the drive. (when you are really into it sometimes you leave it in the drive all the time) Windows reads it every so often so if you leave media in there it is running it.
Drives can only rev so much before they die. Ive gone through a few this way. I play SH3 rarely in order to reduce damage to my already crippled from SF (theroy not proven just yet) DVD writer drive
Drebbel
12-17-05, 07:10 AM
Post as little or as lot as you like but let us be heard! NOW is the perfect time to let them know how we fell before production begins.
Perfect time ?? Why, including starforce takes almost no effeort, can be decided at the last moment before the making of the dvd's starts, could be as litle as a week. :D
Oh, and I am not against StarForce, it is UBI's right to protect their property, but do hope they will sove the problems that various people seem to have.
Type941
12-17-05, 07:36 AM
not only does it cause problems for many users, but Starforce staff replies to problems were nothing short of disgusting snobbish arseholes, and I don't want them associtated with this game.
Sidenote: I've just hit my cool 1000 posts mark and avatar has changed! :yep: :rock:
Richard Zapp
12-17-05, 08:59 AM
NO STARFORCE!
:nope:
Starforce made my CD-RW drive not read blank CD's.
It has since been replaced with a 2nd DVD-RW.
Drebbel
12-17-05, 10:34 AM
Huh, what is there to read on a blank cd ???
:-j
Richard Zapp
12-17-05, 10:43 AM
Meaning when you put a blank CD in the CD-RW drive and XP keeps telling you that there is no disc in the drive. The drive will read CD's that have data or music files on them. Therefore no more burning discs with that drive. It's basically turned into a CD-ROM drive. This did start as soon as I installed SH III.
Zachstar
12-17-05, 01:48 PM
There are topics for debating if your drive was really affected by starforce posting here simply means that you believe that you have been affected. (The fact that it burns nothing after SH3 is installed could possibly cause this :P)
This is more of a topic to express your views and reasons. Nothing is considered fact untill UBI has confirmed cases sent to them from the effort led by soulcommander.
Richard Zapp
12-17-05, 01:55 PM
There are topics for debating if your drive was really affected by starforce posting here simply means that you believe that you have been affected. (The fact that it burns nothing after SH3 is installed could possibly cause this :P)
This is more of a topic to express your views and reasons. Nothing is considered fact untill UBI has confirmed cases sent to them from the effort led by soulcommander.
No problem, subject is dropped....
Zachstar
12-17-05, 02:09 PM
Thanks but still keep up the effort!
Hey that sig you have did you do it?
Richard Zapp
12-17-05, 02:17 PM
Thanks but still keep up the effort!
Hey that sig you have did you do it?
nope, I'm afraid I'm not that talented. I got it form another user here that made it and said it was ok for others to use.
:yep:
Zachstar
12-17-05, 02:35 PM
Ok I hope he might consider doing one for this effort.
Again I do hope yall will consider placing the (No StarForce In SH4) Text in yall's sigs
Itll be nice to be able to play SH4 and not having to worry about damage to my drive
Redwine
12-17-05, 03:21 PM
Definitively.......
Starforce in......
Customer out.....
I payed 75 dollars in this country for SH3, to have lot of bugs, unacomplished promises, and a game instead a simulator.
Plus i was enforced to upgrade my computer to have.... anyway very poor FPS, in a game with no great graphic effects..... when other games with very good effects has so better FPS.
(P4 3.4 Ghz, X800 XT PE 256Mb, 2GB RAM)
Plus it ruins my DVD burner. Another 130 USD.
Plus one year of subcommunity job (me included) to adjust the game.......
STOP.
Starforce in......
Customer out......
benetofski
12-17-05, 04:24 PM
My personal reaction is to WAIT until SH4 is released and if it has SF, then it wont see Benetofski's Reichmarks until there is a SF problem workaround!
Probably by that time probably THREE more positive things will have happened:
1. All the bugs will have been fixed! :up:
2. All the patches will have been released! :up:
3. The price will have dropped! :know:
In the meantime I will continue to enjoy SH3 and let my geld earn interest....
I'll wait until UBI tells us what's going to be in SH4.... 'if' StarForce will be in and what all is in the sim.
It would be nice tho if SH4 was an addon for SHIII. Mod makers would have an easier time of doing mods without the hassle of a different sim to contend with. Tho I'd imagine SH4 will be a dfferent or upgraded game engine than what SHIII is.
uhh ya ever notice how your drive revs alot when its being checked? May be different on yours but its does serious reving on only one disc when it is loading SH3 yes thats the SH3 disc itself.
This checking means you leave the disc in the drive. (when you are really into it sometimes you leave it in the drive all the time) Windows reads it every so often so if you leave media in there it is running it.
Drives can only rev so much before they die. Ive gone through a few this way. I play SH3 rarely in order to reduce damage to my already crippled from SF (theroy not proven just yet) DVD writer drive
Meaning when you put a blank CD in the CD-RW drive and XP keeps telling you that there is no disc in the drive. The drive will read CD's that have data or music files on them. Therefore no more burning discs with that drive. It's basically turned into a CD-ROM drive. This did start as soon as I installed SH III.
Yea to all that above...
SH IV = :up: :up:
SF = :down: :down:
SH IV + SF = jumpy not buying that one ...ever. :down: :nope:
STARFORCE - JUST SAY NO!
kiwi_2005
12-17-05, 07:21 PM
Something wrong here, ive read about alot of faults on the SH3, yet subsim gave it a score of 100% which after i brought the game believed it deserved that.
Ive found no faults with the game apart from whenever i install a mod it creates ctd etc., after a lot of tweaking around ive got two of the common mods installed rub145 and SH3 Commander. On its own SH3 :rock: Im just hoping SH4 doesn't come out worse than SH3 there is a possiblity it could :hmm:
Dont panic.
kiwi_2005
12-17-05, 07:23 PM
Even if SF does come with it, it can easily be solved ;)
gdogghenrikson
12-17-05, 07:37 PM
I havent had any problems with starforce, so I could care less about it
goldorak
12-17-05, 08:01 PM
I havent had any problems with starforce, so I could care less about it
You would make an excellent customer for Sony BMG :-j
U-552Erich-Topp
12-17-05, 08:05 PM
Please, NO starforce :down: :down: :down:
Zachstar
12-17-05, 08:25 PM
I havent had any problems with starforce, so I could care less about it
You would make an excellent customer for Sony BMG :-j
Excellent responce!!!
This is totally right not caring leads to rights being taken away.
Not caring leads to your computer compromised when they hack into the rootkit to get access to your pc.
Not carings ends up with your DVD rom damaged some dead
Not caring could lead to SH4 with StarForce so we must not wait show your disgust at SF here.
Richard Zapp
12-17-05, 08:46 PM
Even if SF does come with it, it can easily be solved ;)
What he said......
Zachstar
12-17-05, 09:30 PM
Hard to solve a starforce problem when your drive is dead lol
Ya you can get the removal tool then SH3 will not load will it not?
Wulfmann
12-17-05, 10:12 PM
<Moderator edit: Post removed, PM sent - Gizzmoe>
Zachstar
12-18-05, 12:48 AM
Very very good man!!
Yes UBI look LOOK how bad this bit of software is.
Work with us! Not against and youll get all that $$ ya want :P
Wulfmann
12-18-05, 12:43 PM
According to forum rules Gizzmoe had every right to delete my post as it could be construed that I was promoting illegally acquiring copyrighted software.
I have never played a game I did not pay for. I do not promote pirated software
My point was that Starforce promotes seeking hacked versions of copyrighted material by using damaging software.
My comments were meant to send a strong message to UBI that the desire to protect itself by using such software will in fact have the opposite affect and by not considering the welfare of its loyal honest customers actually create the reasoning for supporting hacked copies.
This, of course leads to less development and less of what we all want. UBI deserves to profit from their efforts and in so doing is motivated to produce further products that we enjoy and they again profit from. That is how it should work and I am sure 99.99% of users agree with that.
When, in the name of protection, they actually attack their loyal customers, they lose that loyalty and create justification for seeking hacked versions. If they do not respect us why should we respect them? That was my point!
That is a call for UBI to honor our loyalty and protect us first. Protection that does not damage our PCs and helps UBI maintain their property is good for everyone. Protection that hurts the user is good for no one.
It is up to UBI to decide where they want our loyalties to lie
Wulfmann
TonyPiech
12-18-05, 01:02 PM
Don't care much for anything with Starforce, I removed it when I quit running SH3. I removed SH3/Starforce when FalconAF came-out, no copy protection on that Sim whatsoever. I hear from the developers of FalconAF that the sales are great, beyond expectations.
I probably won't purchase SH4 immediately after it's available. I'll be reading the previews/reviews and forum material to assess what people like/don't like about the sim. I remeber how wonderfully talkative the developers were before SH3 came-out, and how silent/absent they were after the sim came-out. Don't know if they quit communicating on their own or were muzzled by Ubi? Some critical items that were promised before SH3 arrived were never delivered. I'll wait to see what develops after SH4 arrives.
Burn me once, shame on you,... burn me twice, shame on me. I don't anticipate being shamed.
Gizzmoe
12-18-05, 01:02 PM
That´s much, much better, Wulfmann! See, it wasn´t that difficult to find the right words, right? ;)
Wulfmann
12-18-05, 01:58 PM
That´s much, much better, Wulfmann! See, it wasn´t that difficult to find the right words, right? ;)
You are right, I said about the same thing but without the gunfire! :rotfl:
Wulfmann
Zachstar
12-18-05, 03:56 PM
Ive decided to make more sigs
Here are the current batch
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1474/image14dh.gif
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/511/animation18ny.gif
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6973/animation43nr.gif
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4590/animation57eo.gif
Drebbel
12-18-05, 04:19 PM
Ive decided to make more sigs
Here are the current batch
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1474/image14dh.gif
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/511/animation18ny.gif
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6973/animation43nr.gif
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4590/animation57eo.gif
Glad to see you spend your time in such a usefull way :D
Zachstar
12-18-05, 04:52 PM
Anything to help the keep that malware outta SH4
Drebbel
12-18-05, 05:15 PM
Anything to help the keep that malware outta SH4
I love SF, makes UBI earn more $$ , so there is more money to invest in new games :D
goldorak
12-18-05, 05:22 PM
I love SF, makes UBI earn more $$ , so there is more money to invest in new games :D
[mode irony on]
And I love starforce because more and more people will turn to warez making the use if said protection totally irrelevant.
[/mode irony off]
As someone said earlier starforce in, customer out.
Drebbel
12-18-05, 05:25 PM
I love SF, makes UBI earn more $$ , so there is more money to invest in new games :D
[mode irony on]
And I love starforce because more and more people will turn to warez making the use if said protection totally irrelevant.
[/mode irony off]
As someone said earlier starforce in, customer out.
Hmm, promoting warez is dangerous in these forum you know. :arrgh!:
Zachstar
12-18-05, 05:38 PM
YOu have any idea how much money they lost from having StarForce?
Knowone really knows but with the hatred of starforce out there it seems they missed out on selling quite a few copys.
And I saw a pic of it on some site already cracked within a week after its realese.
Who won D? DId UBI no
Did we the paying customers win? No
Did the hackers and the theieves win? Yes they ended up with a SH3 that worked better than our verision.
That is just plain wrong and we must not let it happen again.
Drebbel
12-18-05, 05:49 PM
YOu have any idea how much money they lost from having StarForce?
Nope
Knowone really knows
Ah, you asking trick questions now :-)
but with the hatred of starforce out there it seems they missed out on selling quite a few copys.
So what ? sometimes you just have to protect what is yours. Is like getting a lock on your door. Costs money, is annoying, is not good for yourself at all, and you might even get less visitors because that pretty girl from next door thinks you are not home and leaves again.
And I saw a pic of it on some site already cracked within a week after its realese.
True, the type of doorlock I have was picked as well, about 2 months after it was on the marked. So I definately gonna get rid of all my doorlocks, they don't work anyway.
Who won D? DId UBI no
Why not ? You stated yourself you have no idea how much SF gained/cost UBIsoft
Did we the paying customers win? No
Yes we probably did. If UBI makes more $$ the could charge less for the games and/or invest more money in the next game.
Did the hackers and the theieves win? Yes they ended up with a SH3 that worked better than our verision.
Yep, the thief that stole my brothere cdplayer also did win, he got one for free. So I say again. Lets get rid of all doorlocks !!
That is just plain wrong and we must not let it happen again.
Ah, I agree, the next StarForce must be better, less bugs, and way more difficult to crack. I am so glad that we agree afterall
:D
Zachstar
12-18-05, 06:07 PM
LOL you are a funny one.
Well Im so glad you feel that way please make your own Support StarForce topic.
Anyway here are summore sigs I hope yall will start to use some of these eventually.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5520/animation88ko.gif
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5922/lrrupf1ht.gif
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8417/cooltext34366703sr.gif
goldorak
12-18-05, 06:08 PM
So what ? sometimes you just have to protect what is yours. Is like getting a lock on your door. Costs money, is annoying, is not good for yourself at all, and you might even get less visitors because that pretty girl from next door thinks you are not home and leaves again.
You know, you remember me a lot of the president of Sony BMG : customers don't know what a rootkit is so why should they care about it ?
The need to protect something has a limit which should not be crossed.
As an official of the us department of homeland security said after the Sony BMG rootkit fiasco to the music industry : the music industry has the right to protect their content, but always remeber that the computers are not yours (to do what you want) but your customers.
Nobody here is advocating releasing content without copy protection.
What most of you don't realise is that there are alternative ways to copy protection which are just as effective, are less intrusive than starforce ( which as i recall is a piece of software which tampers (modifies) the operating system) and which don't cripple your customers computers.
Having said this, if you are ok to buy software with starforce protection, be my guest but don't start complaining when your computer bsods, your cd,dvd-drive fails etc....
Drebbel
12-18-05, 06:19 PM
Hmm, can not stop wondering why you all want to get rid of Starforce. If you all in favor of copyright protection why then not just "demand" a SF of better quality ?
Why make strong statement that you will not buy SHIV if it has SF ?
Because I am sure that when SHIV is released and there are no real problems with the new version of SF you will all forget about your earlier statements and simply go out and buy the game.
Zachstar
12-18-05, 06:22 PM
Thats right D help StarForce get more of a stranglehold on our computers and well be sure to buy it cause we love SH4 so much.
I know you want UBI to continue the great Silent Hunter Series
To help them do it we are trying to make them see that considering your customers criminals will not insure this.
I have an idea.
What if we had some kind of steam interface.
You know like HL2 has
We have have the multiplayer the fair copy protection and multiplayer all in one program.
But never NEVER!!! will we support starforce again!
Drebbel
12-18-05, 06:27 PM
Never ???
Oh boy, never say never
If I had to get 1 $ of all people who stated never going to buy SHIII I could have a great vacation trip around the world :D
And of course a great way to let UBI know is to sell your copy of SHIII :-j But you probably will not do that because although SF is in SHIII you are having a great time with it and would not want to miss it.
Zachstar
12-18-05, 06:30 PM
Basicly you continue to consider us scumbags. You say we wont keep our word.
You are a very offensive person and this has gone out of hand.
Belive what you want but my statement is official I will not buy any product that contains starforce again!!
No I am keeping my copy of SH3 in hopes my idea will be considered then I can play the atlantic campaign in SH4 :P
goldorak
12-18-05, 06:31 PM
Hmm, can not stop wondering why you all want to get rid of Starforce. If you all in favor of copyright protection why then not just "demand" a SF of better quality ?
Because its impossibile to make a better quality starforce.
The way the protection is devised makes your wish about a better quality totaly impossibile to achieve.
Why make strong statement that you will not buy SHIV if it has SF ?
I already stated my motives.
Because I am sure that when SHIV is released and there are no real problems with the new version of SF you will all forget about your earlier statements and simply go out and buy the game.
No, I'm a simulation fan but I passed on Lock-on because of starforce, passed on Flamming Cliffs because of starforce, passed on silent hunter 3 because of starforce and will pass on silent hunter 4 if it uses starforce.
I renounced to play a lot of games i was interested in because of starforce and i won't change my opinion.
Drebbel
12-18-05, 06:32 PM
I understand. But what a pitty that you will this non-SF issue spoil all the fun. You missing out on some great games !
Zachstar
12-18-05, 06:41 PM
Um no there will always be a StarForce issue.
And that is the fact that you must prove your innocence EVERY time you want to play.
Hey atleast steam you activate it and your good to go every time.
SF is gonna die and thats that. They are likely losing buisness already.
And UBI knows this they have felt the sting they read the results. The likeliness is that there wont be StarForce in SH4
goldorak
12-18-05, 06:44 PM
I understand. But what a pitty that you will this non-SF issue spoil all the fun. You missing out on some great games !
Well there are a lot of other great games which are as interesting as the ones i don't play, right now on my hard disk are installed :
Dangerous Waters
Falcon 4 Allied Force
Orbiter (space flight simulator - freeware)
IFH (a space combat game with newtonian flight model - freeware)
Space Shuttle Simulation (freeware remake of the virgin shuttle simulation )
Anacreon (a turn based strategy game - freeware)
The Babylon Project ( an arcade space combat game - freeware)
x-com : Terror form the deep (a turn based strategy game)
and I enjoy every single one of them without having the problem of starforce messing up my computer.
DeepSix
12-18-05, 07:32 PM
I won't buy it if it uses StarForce (or anything of the SF ilk).
/back to lurking in the iron coffin....
moose1am
12-18-05, 11:18 PM
OK guys I am a newbie to this forum. What is Star Force and what does it do?
Does this software exist in SHIII too? I don't own a copy of SHIII yet. ... And if this is what I think it is I won't buy SHIII if it has malware of anykind inside it. That will go for SH IV also
Let your voice be heard if you agree that SF has been nothing but bad for UBI and SH3 then say it here.
The goal is to let UBI once and for all we no longer support this type of guilty until proven innocent scheme SF does. We no longer accept the damage it does to our drives.
And on and on
Post as little or as lot as you like but let us be heard! NOW is the perfect time to let them know how we fell before production begins.
Zachstar
12-19-05, 01:47 AM
Starforce is supposed copy protection that installs drivers to your windows system that has been said to cause damage to DVD writers.
The goal of it is to check the cd and confirm its the correct one. Doing this it revs up the drive it very fast levels. This is likely a crap attempt to limit loading time.
Its not my job to tell you to buy. But PLEASE be informed what you are getting youself into when installing SH3. I decided to take the risk and install it. I paid the price with my writer being damaged.
All over the net there is people disgusted with SF and these arent theives and hackers these are normal paying people sick of being treated like criminals.
The sad thing is the theives and hackers getting SH3 by nonlegal means are said to be playing a better faster loading version than the people buying it. This totally gets me ticked as I paid good money for my copy and am having to go through the SF crap and they arent.
SH3 is cool SF is not. It's up to you to weigh the pros and cons and make your decision.
Remember I have a bias view towards so I suggest you hit the net and see what others think what SF thinks (If you can stand their attitude towards people that dont absolutely adore SF) and make your decision. Its best to get a broad view to cut past the spin.
Im sure UBI is looking all over for what people are saying about SF and I doubt they will buy any further licences from that scumbag company.
But this effort is to make sure that the grand SH4 will not inculde this walking disaster of malware in it.
Soulcommander
12-19-05, 01:28 PM
uhh ya ever notice how your drive revs alot when its being checked? May be different on yours but its does serious reving on only one disc when it is loading SH3 yes thats the SH3 disc itself.
This checking means you leave the disc in the drive. (when you are really into it sometimes you leave it in the drive all the time) Windows reads it every so often so if you leave media in there it is running it.
Drives can only rev so much before they die. Ive gone through a few this way. I play SH3 rarely in order to reduce damage to my already crippled from SF (theroy not proven just yet) DVD writer drive
This is very true and Happened to me.
Not sure if all of you have been keeping up to date with things.
Starforce has a lame conntest on their web page now that is impossible to win. It's just plaine stupid for even pulling this so called contest.
Drives that die I believe, die because Starforce drivers check the drives often and in some cases cause some kind of conflict on some cdrw drives. HIgh rpms on my drive is what I first noticed. Then after some time a complete drive failure.
As far as SH 4 not having SF???
I would agree it would be in UBI'S best interest not to have it but use some other copy protection instead.
I have some news I can't totally share with everyone ...But SF is and will be undergoing some changes. Will these changes be for the better? Word out is yes. But they have already changed to many peoples minds out there int he gaming world and I doubt that to many fans will ever trust them again.
Anyway....as far as SH4? I think Ubi willnot get the hint and still use SF in the game.
The only way to get the word to Ubi is to write their tech support.
If anyone needs info on that just PM me.
I continue to send Ubi info and letters from all of you with issues and gripes.
So please if you have never sent a letter to Ubi do so now. Or send it to me. Personal info will validate your letter more so if you want to make an impact don't leave personal info out. Name address and so on.
I will NOT give this info to anyone except Ubi and they will keep it confidential too.
Thank you !
SC
moose1am
12-19-05, 02:39 PM
I don't have a CD that writes or copies disks so I don't have a problem with this. However I take great pride in having the best drivers for my computer devices. It should be a crime for a company to load drivers on anyone's system without permission. I guess they get by this by putting something in the Legal Claus that we all never read and have to accept to load up a new game or program.
Legal action would be moot but a boycotte and word of mouth is the best course. I dread loading anything new on my computer as I never know what all the programmer put on my computer.
I have had to reformate my system too many times because of faulty drivers or bad programs that changed settings on my system.
Thanks for the heads up about SHIII. I think I am going to skip buying this game due to this information. I was just waiting for the price to come down.
I purchased SH II and Destroyer Command and was burned once by Ubisoft when they promised that those two games would allow me to play them together online. I found out that it never did happen. So I have tried to avoid that company ever since. Fool me once shame on you... fool me trice shame on me! I have read all though this thread and I don't like what I have learned.
It's too bad they can't just use copy protection schemes that don't ruin our computers.
uhh ya ever notice how your drive revs alot when its being checked? May be different on yours but its does serious reving on only one disc when it is loading SH3 yes thats the SH3 disc itself.
This checking means you leave the disc in the drive. (when you are really into it sometimes you leave it in the drive all the time) Windows reads it every so often so if you leave media in there it is running it.
Drives can only rev so much before they die. Ive gone through a few this way. I play SH3 rarely in order to reduce damage to my already crippled from SF (theroy not proven just yet) DVD writer drive
This is very true and Happened to me.
Not sure if all of you have been keeping up to date with things.
Starforce has a lame conntest on their web page now that is impossible to win. It's just plaine stupid for even pulling this so called contest.
Drives that die I believe, die because Starforce drivers check the drives often and in some cases cause some kind of conflict on some cdrw drives. HIgh rpms on my drive is what I first noticed. Then after some time a complete drive failure.
As far as SH 4 not having SF???
I would agree it would be in UBI'S best interest not to have it but use some other copy protection instead.
I have some news I can't totally share with everyone ...But SF is and will be undergoing some changes. Will these changes be for the better? Word out is yes. But they have already changed to many peoples minds out there int he gaming world and I doubt that to many fans will ever trust them again.
Anyway....as far as SH4? I think Ubi willnot get the hint and still use SF in the game.
The only way to get the word to Ubi is to write their tech support.
If anyone needs info on that just PM me.
I continue to send Ubi info and letters from all of you with issues and gripes.
So please if you have never sent a letter to Ubi do so now. Or send it to me. Personal info will validate your letter more so if you want to make an impact don't leave personal info out. Name address and so on.
I will NOT give this info to anyone except Ubi and they will keep it confidential too.
Thank you !
SC
Marhkimov
12-19-05, 05:48 PM
I would opt for a new improved version of Starforce.
The way I see it, Starfoce is not really the problem... the problem is that starforce is a pain to deal with. If they fixed that, then I would have nothing against it.
captainclasp
12-20-05, 09:08 AM
Drebbel - I both agree and disagree with you on starforce. First, I agree that starforce needs to be updated, so that companies choosing to use it will not cause their consumers to have the issues we saw with SH3 - Doing this will remove the majority of complaints by customers. I will more than likely purchase SH4, just as I did SH3, regardless of copy protection used.
However, as an IT guy, I have deep rooted issue with the WAY starforce works - installing vdd's without informing the pc user. This is the same type of thing as the Sony issue.... installing "software" that impacts the system without notifying or getting specific consent from the user.
As a gamer, I don't care what protection scheme is used, because as long as I get my game to work without blowing up my machine, I didnt waste the 40 or 50 dollars the game cost.
In the end - let UBI use Starforce, or any thing else they want. I only ask that they insure that whatever they use is implimented in a reasonable, responsible way. That means that if they go with starforce - it would require a major overhaul to meet those criteria.
That is what I would ask all the gamers here to let UBI know - protect your product however you want - just do it responsibly!
Good Hunting!
CC
I did not believe those who said starforce would trash their dvd writer. I bought sh3 and installed it anyway. Unfortunately after that my dvd writer no longer work. So I will never buy a game with starforce again, never no matter how good the game is.
martes86
12-26-05, 07:52 PM
If you don't want to consider the fact that SF may ruin your drive, consider some other aspect, like the intrusive behaviour. When I installed SH3, I meant to only install that, but then I discover that it has also installed a hidden system driver, of which they've never said anything neither in the box nor the manual. It's like a virus. You download some data, but you also get some software of which you don't get any notice, and may damage your system. Before buying SH3, I only knew that SF existed by reading the forums, but I didn't knew what it was, and if it really was going to be implemented. If I didn't have Internet, I may have never noticed that I had a new system driver installed.
And I don't say that companies shouldn't protect their property, but that they should use some other methods like they have used before. Anyways, it's a waste of money, because every game is already cracked after 1 or 2 weeks of being published (this is real, no invention, nor any try to promote the use of warez & Co.)
Cheers :rock:
I hate Starfarce yet....
...I have bought SHIII twice.
Why? When I travel I like to take my favourite games with me. Normally I don't have to take the original discs because nocds work. With SHIII I had to take the disc. On one trip I lost the DVD. Had I have had the option to leave it at home (safely) it wouldn't have happened.
I now use firewire drives and "workarounds". Screw you Starfarce, you will never beat us!
Safe-Keeper
12-27-05, 06:14 PM
Several things to cover here.
First of all, for all of you who plan to use SF banners: It might be an idea to have them link to this thread or some other media informing people of how much SF allegedly sucks.
Next off, a little link (http://www.firingsquad.com/features/starforce_interview/).
As for the thing about my CD-burner no longe reading empty CDs due to StarForce: Happened to me, I think. Not sure yet, but it's acting up. The burner, that is, not StarForce.
I did a little take on an anti-SF banner if anyone's interested in hosting it. Right here (http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=363337)
If anyone wants to host it or use the idea for a more advanced sig', go ahead.
True, the type of doorlock I have was picked as well, about 2 months after it was on the marked. So I definately gonna get rid of all my doorlocks, they don't work anyway.
Excellent sarcastic analogy. I'm in favour of both door-locks and copy-protection for the same reason: Yes, there are work-arounds, but it's better to have protection that can be broken than to have no protection at all. Pepper-sprays, door-locks, X-Rays at airports, not taking candy from strangers - all can be worked around, but they do SOMETHING. The fact that 9/11 happened doesn't mean all airport security should be removed, to put it that way :P .
However, if SF is as bad as people claim here (I just heard about this and you have to admit it sounds unbelievable that a copy-protection program would do all these things), then I'm all against it.
Add copy-protection all you want, just not one that screws up my computer (also see my location for another decent way of screwing pirates, especially those with Dial-Up connections:arrgh!:)
X-Com : Terror form the deep
Keep rocking :up: ! Those two (Terror and UFO Defense) are easily the best strategy games ever.
I have found through months of experience that there is a way to purchase and enjoy SH3 without the hassle or worry of StarForce and its possibility to hose your optical media drive. It doesn't involve removing StarForce products from your machine, either.
That solution is to purchase the downloadable version of the game. As far as I know, the only distributor licensed in the US market to sell the downloadable version of SH3 is Direct2Drive.
While I don't agree with Ubisoft's inclusion of these sorts of protectionary drivers, here are answers to the most commonly discussed questions/comments regarding the downloadable version of SH3:
(1) The Starforce drivers are included in the downloadable version, too.
(1) Yes, they are. But not all of them. You can compare the drivers appearing on a newly-formatted OS with only SH3 installed via the downloadable version of the game, against the drivers appearing on a newly-formatted OS installed with the CD version of the game. The result? The drivers that interact with the optical media drive are not present on the install of the downloadable game. This makes perfect sense as no spin-up of media is necessary in the case of the downloadable game. In fact, I have tried to 'provoke' the Starforce drivers in the downloadable version of the game, and I have not been successful. I can't determine their functionality in the downloadable version of SH3.
(2) If you use the downloadable version of the game, you only get to reinstall SH3 four times maximum.
(2) I have learned that this rumor is patently untrue. I went on a reformat kick during this year so that I could learn more about the Windows OS. I have in that same time period installed SH3 eleven times. The element of reality is that after the fourth install, you need to contact the distributor with your original order information and your hardware code, and they will email you back another serial number code to activate the product again and again. I must give credit to Direct2Drive/GameSpy/IGN Entertainment for alleviating this particular issue with efficiency and politeness every time.
(3) Why would you pay for a game and not own the media backup of that game?
(3) With all the problems people have had with their optical media drives BECAUSE they used the CD version of the game, I think this question answers itself.
Starforce is supposed copy protection that installs drivers to your windows system that has been said to cause damage to DVD writers.
The goal of it is to check the cd and confirm its the correct one. Doing this it revs up the drive it very fast levels. This is likely a crap attempt to limit loading time.
Its not my job to tell you to buy. But PLEASE be informed what you are getting youself into when installing SH3. I decided to take the risk and install it. I paid the price with my writer being damaged.
All over the net there is people disgusted with SF and these arent theives and hackers these are normal paying people sick of being treated like criminals.
The sad thing is the theives and hackers getting SH3 by nonlegal means are said to be playing a better faster loading version than the people buying it. This totally gets me ticked as I paid good money for my copy and am having to go through the SF crap and they arent.
SH3 is cool SF is not. It's up to you to weigh the pros and cons and make your decision.
Remember I have a bias view towards so I suggest you hit the net and see what others think what SF thinks (If you can stand their attitude towards people that dont absolutely adore SF) and make your decision. Its best to get a broad view to cut past the spin.
Im sure UBI is looking all over for what people are saying about SF and I doubt they will buy any further licences from that scumbag company.
But this effort is to make sure that the grand SH4 will not inculde this walking disaster of malware in it.
Thanks! I didn't know that it damages your driver, and I got a new computer YESTERDAY! Is it possible to uninstall somehow, cause I just LOVE SH3!?!
el_Salmon
12-28-05, 06:31 PM
Starforce should be not allowed. It's an stupid system that sucks our DVD drives. The solution for piracy is to down prices, not to **** us with a filthy DRM.
Is there any way of uninstalling it?
How to remove StarForce components, according to the company that makes StarForce:
http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=91
<Edit: Post deleted. Please read the forum rules. - Gizzmoe>
Gizzmoe
12-29-05, 03:53 AM
For those of you who don´t know the forum rules yet, here they are:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/faq.php
Herr Karl
12-30-05, 02:43 AM
Well...I think the developers should be able to protect their interest. I`ve had starforce problems also. Just make sure the protection system is researched properly. I`m not happy about starforce or any other copy protection system, but I believe it to be a necessary evil.
JUST MAKE SURE IT WORKS AS ADVERTISED
Any protection is fine as long as its not starforce.
Sea Demon
01-02-06, 05:59 AM
OK. I removed SH3 from my system, but how do I remove Starforce drivers? Anybody know how?
SD
Syxx_Killer
01-02-06, 10:06 AM
OK. I removed SH3 from my system, but how do I remove Starforce drivers? Anybody know how?
SD
Well, the only thing that I know of is to download the removal tool. Other than that, to be absolutely sure they ate gone is to probably reformat the harddrive. :shifty:
http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55
Seeadler
01-02-06, 01:11 PM
Common StarForce Removal Tool:
http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55
Some game developer studions, Codemaster or Eagle Dynamics for example, offers also their own removal tool! :up:
Just to say
NO STARFORCE PLEASE UBI
they wont put it in now ive said that :yep:
Krieg-Schwein
01-02-06, 04:56 PM
YOu have any idea how much money they lost from having StarForce?
Nope
Knowone really knows
Ah, you asking trick questions now :-)
but with the hatred of starforce out there it seems they missed out on selling quite a few copys.
So what ? sometimes you just have to protect what is yours. Is like getting a lock on your door. Costs money, is annoying, is not good for yourself at all, and you might even get less visitors because that pretty girl from next door thinks you are not home and leaves again.
And I saw a pic of it on some site already cracked within a week after its realese.
True, the type of doorlock I have was picked as well, about 2 months after it was on the marked. So I definately gonna get rid of all my doorlocks, they don't work anyway.
Who won D? DId UBI no
Why not ? You stated yourself you have no idea how much SF gained/cost UBIsoft
Did we the paying customers win? No
Yes we probably did. If UBI makes more $$ the could charge less for the games and/or invest more money in the next game.
Did the hackers and the theieves win? Yes they ended up with a SH3 that worked better than our verision.
Yep, the thief that stole my brothere cdplayer also did win, he got one for free. So I say again. Lets get rid of all doorlocks !!
That is just plain wrong and we must not let it happen again.
Ah, I agree, the next StarForce must be better, less bugs, and way more difficult to crack. I am so glad that we agree afterall
:D
Hmm, can not stop wondering why you all want to get rid of Starforce. If you all in favor of copyright protection why then not just "demand" a SF of better quality ?
Why make strong statement that you will not buy SHIV if it has SF ?
Because I am sure that when SHIV is released and there are no real problems with the new version of SF you will all forget about your earlier statements and simply go out and buy the game.
A little story for you!
I have 2 DVD burners on my computer working 100% perfectly fine!!
I burned at least 15 DVDs for relatives and Friends this Christmas with NOT 1 Problems At all.
meanwhile I had been having some problems hosting MP games on my other computer that I use strictly for gaming, any way I put SH3 on my server to host and was going to use a fresh install and NO mods to to try to figure out why my MP games keep crashing and now thanks to Star $%#ing Force all of my DVD burns fail 90%of the time and when I do get a burn with out failing the DVD is usually messed UP.
The good news is that I have my drive Ghosted and can restore it the the way it was before I installed SF and now It works perfectly the way it did before, and BTW removing the SF driver does not fix the problem.
So please quit sticking up for the anti pirates crowd because just like Green Peace they cause more problems for the law abiding than problems for the pirates!
This is a Fact because there is a No CD patch for SH3 that you do not have to have SF installed to play!!! so really the point. they are not going to fix it because if you listen to them there is noting wrong with it, If they wanted to do something they could with other ways other than SF but it all has to do with money changeing hand in the Executive lobby!
Herr Karl
01-02-06, 05:19 PM
OK. I removed SH3 from my system, but how do I remove Starforce drivers? Anybody know how?
SD
Here is another: http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=91
Not!
I can`t burn ISO images is one of my problems. I don`t think starforce should be used again. I`d rather pay an xtra 5 bucks for a more expensive and less intrusive copy protection system.
Starforce :nope:
No-DVD files kicking Starforce´s ass :yep:
TDK1044
01-03-06, 01:33 PM
Guys, if you put the numbers of members of all the SH111 forums together, you'll get a figure that represents about one percent of total sales. Ubisoft's decision regarding protection for SH1V will not be influenced at all by any opinions expressed here. Such forums are however very useful for the DEVs.
Soulcommander
01-10-06, 12:53 AM
Hello all...Some breaking info!!!!!
Wanted you to see this post this guy seems to know whats going on........and is the latest post that really sheds some light on things!
Be sure to check out his webpage too. I can't share what he told me in a personal email but I know this gentleman is on the up and up! PLEASE do READ THESE!!!!!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/561108232/m/2871061083/p/5
Scroll down slowly to 13thhr !!!!
Also the forum moderator comments on SHIII forum BE SURE TO CHECK THIS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/4001086693
I will keep you all updated as normal.
SC
copied Info.Starforce has received criticism for installing its own device driver onto computers. The Starforce drivers are often linked to system instability and computer crashes. If these problems occur, the end-user would be unware as to the cause of the problem, and would be helpless to solve the problem.
Moreover, the Starforce drivers, installed on your system, grant ring 0 (system level) privileges to any code under the ring 3 (user level) privileges. Thus, any virus or trojan can get OS privileges and totally control your system. Since Windows 2000, the Windows line security and stability got enhanced by separating those privileges, but with the Starforce drivers, the old system holes and instabilities are back and any program (or virus) can reach the core of your system by using the Starforce drivers as a backdoor.
Is my system concerned,check device manager In the menu above select View and select Show Hidden Devices:If you have Staforce, it will be listed under the Non-plug and play drivers tree:If you remove,you won't be able to play SHIII. BEWARE, We all would like a solution!----http://www.glop.org/starforce/---removal tool---LOL
Gizzmoe
01-10-06, 06:31 AM
Moreover, the Starforce drivers, installed on your system, grant ring 0 (system level) privileges to any code under the ring 3 (user level) privileges. Thus, any virus or trojan can get OS privileges and totally control your system.
That doesn´t really matter as 99% of all home users are logged in with admin rights, not restricted user rights. Viruses or trojans don´t need SF to kill your system.
Cdre Gibs
01-10-06, 07:37 AM
What I find interesting is - Why is it that the same 2 moderators have jumped to the defence of 2 instance's of dubious pracises of 2 company's that directly or indirectly effect the ppl on these forums. I cant help thinking that either they just like to be the devils advocate and stir things along or are indeed blind as the proverbial bat and as deaf as a door post.
1 doesn't need to see jimmy putting his hand in the cookie jar to know he stole them when all other options are improbable.
It makes 1 wonder as to their motives in the grand scheme of things.
Navarre
01-10-06, 08:28 AM
That doesn´t really matter as 99% of all home users are logged in with admin rights, not restricted user rights.
The admin is also a user ;) and code from trojans/virus which runs under admin rights is executed in ring 3 and do not has necessarily always kernel mode rights (ring 0) like the SF driver.
Godalmighty83
01-10-06, 08:42 AM
if SH4 has star force in it then i simply wont buy it.
i now simply boycott anything containing the starforce virus. that includes SH3 as i no longer play it.
its malware with disgusting public relations. end of.
Gizzmoe
01-10-06, 09:00 AM
The admin is also a user ;) and code from trojans/virus which runs under admin rights is executed in ring 3 and do not has necessarily always kernel mode rights (ring 0) like the SF driver.
My point was that a program that was made to intentionally kill Windows or wipe your files doesn´t need Ring 0 rights to do that, normal admin rights are enough.
DiracDeltaFunction
01-10-06, 01:20 PM
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! I got SHIII when it first came out, played for a while, shelved it, and then about a month ago I started playing heavily again. Since then the servo motors that spin both my DVD ROM and my CDRW (which I never had problems with) have started to die. I get errors and failures like it's my job. It was all to mysterious until stumbling upon this thread. I hope this isn't true and they in fact just died of old age. We'll see what the evidence reveals. Interesting thread guys, thanks for the intel.
Gizzmoe
01-10-06, 01:24 PM
I get errors and failures like it's my job. It was all to mysterious until stumbling upon this thread. I hope this isn't true and they in fact just died of old age.
Welcome aboard!
Try to uninstall the SF drivers, maybe the errors go away:
http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55
If that doesn´t help update the SF drivers:
http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=91
If all that doesn´t help delete the drives from the device manager and reboot. Windows will then redetect them.
I will add my voice to the choir and put it simply.I have been playing submarine simulations since an ancient one made with logo language,french i think,i don't even remember the name.
1)I want to see on the box whether Starforce is on the box or not.We are not citizens of 2nd grade in the EU.
2)If it has Starforce i won't buy it.And now that i know ,i will first search in internet to make sure it doesn't have it and only then buy it.
P.S:Ubisoft should at least release a patch allowing to run SH3 on WinXP 64bit,before hoping in any more money from me.
Drebbel
01-20-06, 05:34 PM
Think this thread has changed into a general starforce related thread. Therefore I will move it to the general forum.
Drebbel (with my moderator hat on)
Konovalov
01-20-06, 06:50 PM
Down the toilet with Starforce. :up:
TteFAboB
01-20-06, 07:27 PM
There are other solutions out there, I have no problems with StarForce myself, never had, so I won't stop playing games because they have StarForce, however, in this case silence is consent, so by making clear the SH3 community, the customers, don't want StarForce in the future game, we give merit to the good protection systems that we are sure to be 100% safe to the customers.
I don't care if SH4 has StarForce or not, but I prefer to pay and support a company that provides a truely safe protection system instead of supporting the sinister StarForce.
No copy protection is completely safe or able to stop copying of a product. Pure and simple, no matter what anyone says.
And as said, most games today, just like SHIII are pirated before or at the same time they hit the shelves. No copy protection is going to stop that. Security where the discs are make has to be stepped up to catch the pirates red-handed.
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