Skybird: The warmonger.

[TteFAboB]

This is an invite to Skybird to present his case without previous interference, on the hijacked Pearl Harbor thread he received attacks from multiple fronts and was defeated by them because he ignored Diplomacy with the nonbelligerent peacefull nations, he attacked me without a declaration of war but forgot everybody else had their eyes on us, and they made their intervention as they have their own set of values to stand up for and defend. I thank the community of world nations for making justice after my death, but I ask all that to be left behind and for us to start clean again, this time, without actually triggering a war. Not that I am an apologist, I simply recognize there is more for all of us to profit if we accept this is a gaming forum and not a scarred battleground.

If Skybird is willing, I would like him to share his views on unrestricted warfare, its purpose, its goal, the justifications if any and if possible taking into consideration Diplomatic relations, if not then we can imagine and use an utopic island where there would be no foreign intervention, like Feudal Japan :) and any other interesting facts he deems important or necessary.

As an appeal, I lay a reason for such request, I have personal interest on the subject of warfare because of the situation I live in, as Avon Lady would say she is interested in the Palestinian "conflict" (sorry, I lack a better word), I live in a country surrounded by demagogue buffoons, my own nation included, but only temporarily I might add, one of them is commanded by Fidel Castro from his utopic paradise island, it now has a 2 million armed and basic trained homeland "defense" force, which frees the professional Army for offensive actions, together with their narco-guerrilla allies. The other back-stabs this nation routinely on commerce and would not surprise if in war, with their now replaced loyal high command, attacked without any consideration (Ding ding, Falklands ring a bell).

If any of what I wrote is insulting to Skybird or interferes with his opinions, if he would like to share them, I am willing to delete it.

What do you say Skybird, you did it well with your opinion on Islam, why not do it one more time and exteriorize your thoughts once again?

[micky1up]

well opinions are like *******s everyones got one

[Kapitan]

my opinion:

i respect skybird for what he is and what he knows he is a valuble member of subsim i respect him and everyone for contributing there views opinions and facts.

i believe not that skybird is a war monger but if this is to be trial id be acting barrister :D

regards

[Hitman]

I live in a country surrounded by demagogue buffoons, my own nation included

What? You live here in Spain?? :rotfl:

[TteFAboB]

I live in a country surrounded by demagogue buffoons, my own nation included

What? You live here in Spain?? :rotfl:

I guess we're all part of the club.

I hope kapitain doesn't make Skybird get the wrong idea and think I am calling him a warmonger, the idea would be to talk with the warmonger inside Skybird, or Skybird acting as a warmonger, and not the other way around, as far as I know Skybird hasn't waged any wars. :)

[Skybird]

Best book I saw on the changes in modern and future war, which is essentially a going back to earlier historical configurations. A must-read.
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/349961653X/qid=1134309535/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl/303-9751187-4865818

Similiar to that:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0080417965/qid=1134309735/sr=8-9/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i9_xgl/203-0769114-4603926

Supplementing that
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/0029331552/qid=1134309431/sr=8-5/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i5_xgl/303-9751187-4865818

On a resolute mindset in whatever you do:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590302486/qid=1134309875/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_3_2/203-0769114-4603926


You guys need to understand one thing. Beeing able to fight, and in a situation of fight - fighting without comproimse, does not mean one likes to fight or walks around and starts rumbles all the time. The other thread and it's many word-twisting or lying assumptions about me were dripping with idiotism.

War means killing, destroying, chaos, sufferign, pain, dirt, it turns out the worst in men, it's no noble heroes having a smart championship, but a bunch of raging, biting dogs. One should avoid at all costs going to war easily, unprepared, for foul reasons and without a good cause. This I say - because I have no illusion about war, war as I understand it. There is no glory. Their is no politeness. There is no honour. medfals are not worth anything. Flags don't mean nothing. every slogan is a lie. There is only despair and darkness. that's why you shouldn't go that path easily. But if you go there, no matter why, you kill or get killed. Put your heart into it, but there is a price your soul will pay for the rest of your life. There will be invisible scars, and you will not come back from war as the same man you have been before. Don't go there easily. Avoid it. but if you do, unleash or hell you are capable of - or you arelost.

I have not been in war, but I walked on places of war, ruins still smoking, bodies beeing buried in fresh graves, poeple still in despair, bad smell in the air (Kurdistan, and short: Algeria). you must not become a soldier to see the evil faces of war. I have also seen the face of torture, had to do with it's victims professinally. I had been in siuations of direct fight, me versus two or several others, sometimes it was about my/our money/camera equipment, at least two times it was about my/our lifes as well, maybe more often - I never waited long enough to find out, but took the option to resist them. I reject to cooperate under such conditions. I got wounded one time, I won all fights decisively, and when we left the attackers usually had fled or laid motoinless, completely disabled - and that is what I want to see when needing to fight. This was fighting with hands, knifes, sticks. I do not know about firearms, I never needed them, I never learned with them. but I know martial arts, knifes, and to some degree swordfighting, and own an ancient Japanese sword myself, which was a gift. That's what I have been trained in, formover 17 years. The lectures I recieved payed off and helped us to secure our health, life and security. People can tell me about firearms. But noone must teach me about mental attitude in fighting. And you want to lecture me about resolute fighting spirit? Sorry, but this makes me just laugh.

Militarily, I see it like this, with regard the the US: Korea was fought with limited assets and willingness. They were unable to win. They fought Vietnam for flawed reasons and with restrictions and political consideration. Militarily unbeaten, they nevertheless lost the war. Gulf 1991 they gave out of hand - for illusion on their mind. Iraq today they already have lost again, unbeaten, but unable to win - for reasons opf going to a war that was unwinnable from the beginning and with seriously flawed mindset. And Pearl back then: america knew what was coming, but it allowed itself to get caught with dropped pants. Day of infamy? Yes, but the infamy was not caused by the Japanese, but the Americans themselves. They still had to learn, like they had to learn in the beginning in Africa, too. As long as one does not argue that Roosevelt felt this blow was needed to wake up his countrymen and sharpened their minds for the efforts that lied ahead. Just a conspiration theory, of course, that by random chance I just happen to follow :)

There is no inbetween. You either fight, or you don'T. If you have doubts, if there is a price to high to pay for you , then don't. If you want to do it, let not the smallest hesitation come between you and your enemy's defeat, accept no distraction. A samuraio would say: don't even mind your own death. Else you fail, get stuck, or even will get killed.

That is a simple, but cruel truth, I agree. And that'S why I am so strictly against launching "preemptive strikes" for arbitrary reasons, or wage wars for foul excuses. As you certainly remember, this is the speciality of others that I always critizised most unforgiving. they have sacrifced their troops and never smelled the ztaste of battle and sufferingthemselves. They had no true reason in advance but stunking fould excuses afterwards. They kicked their own 2000 losses into a garbage can all for nothing, and have acchieved nothing. They started a ware with not a single one of my necessary preconditions met. And they took on an enemy that cannot be defeated with a regular army and Clausewitz-like dogma. Clausewitz is dead and will not play a significant role in the wars to come, believe me. America in Iraq in in very much the same position as the Napoleonic army in Spain during the rebellion. Unlike the French leader back then I cannot see them adopting and learning the necessary lessons, instead they mess thigs up with public relation desatser like the CIA flight over Europe and secret interrogation camps onEuropean soil - an affront. Well, I am the last to claim Bush shares Napoleon's understanding. Maulheld, verdammter.

So, for me personally there is only combat-mode on, or off. that simple. That switch has a safety, and i do not like to use it. And I certainly do not beg anbyone to switch it on for me.

Have I make myself clear, now...?

BTW, noone defated me in that other thread. I sticked to my line and got tired of a situation with others zigzagging around, making asusmption about me that had no justification in what I said. Poor, if you need to draw your proclaimed victories from such scenes and even cannot stick to what someone said.

As I have written back then, I stepped back from such useless debates several weeks ago, so I will not continue any further from here.




"The trick is not to die for your country, but make the idiot on the other side dying for his." Any questions...?

[Takeda Shingen]

Sky is no warmonger. Furthermore, if you wish for a civil discussion, you may wish to soften your topic's moniker. More likely, TteFAboB, you had no intention other than inciting someone who you disagree with. Have we not had enough of this as of late?

[TteFAboB]

Takeda, he answered! :hulk:

He is open to share, I incited him, no doubt about that, it was my intention from start, blame me on that one if you want, I wanted an answer and I got one, I threw almost all my cards, mission accomplished, now all you bystanders can enjoy and draw your own conclusions and agree or disagree with whatever you like.

Without Skybird there would be nothing to trigger this subject of course, but I can say the same about me for pushing him, so, thanks to me you all now have a starting point to engage on warfare thinking, you're welcome. And no worries, I'll send you the bill.

Jokes aside, I'll never agree to disagree with a figure like Skybird, no double perspectives, no more than one truth, in the end I'll settle if we agree more than disagree, now silence would be just boring wouldn't it. :zzz:

[Takeda Shingen]

Oh, how I reside in your debt.

[Hitman]

America in Iraq in in very much the same position as the Napoleonic army in Spain during the rebellion. Unlike the French leader back then I cannot see them adopting and learning the necessary lessons, instead they mess thigs up with public relation desatser like the CIA flight over Europe and secret interrogation camps onEuropean soil - an affront. Well, I am the last to claim Bush shares Napoleon's understanding

Yeah, but Napoleon didn't have to deal with a democracy (At last a theoretical one) at home, which makes things a lot more difficult. :up:

I want to thank Skybird for his straight and sincere vision of the war. I think he is partially right, i.e., he who uses all resources and tricks at his avail has more chances to win than the one who limits them voluntarily. And because the winner always will write the history afterwards, he will also be able to tell the future generations that he did it in a clean fight :lol:

I might be a romantic guy, probably due to the fact of my family descending straight from Middle Age Knights and such, (They were in fact mercenaries and not the noble knights usually seen in Hollywood, but anyway... :shifty: ) and still believe in the need for a logical, philosophical reason for war, as well as I believe in conducting a war with honour and respecting certain rules. I myself know because of my job what it is to look each morning beneath your car in case a baske terrorist has put an explosive there, or to look behind you regularly in case someone with a pistol is coming, and have learned that I fight on the side that tries to respect rules, against people who will not respect any. And true, this all is just putting a handicap over you, which is not good when your enemy does not the same.

In the nature, few animals of the same race fight till death, they have instead an ellaborated code of signals for telling the other that you give up and surrender, and normally you will expect to save your life then. In the human species this is unfortunately not so, and thus war is probably more efficiently conducted like Skybird suggests.

But then...where will we stop? If killing the enemy by shooting from his back is allowed for the sake of winning, why not kill also his women and children to prevent future generations from trying to revenge? Where is the difference? If you win a fight not respecting anything, will you be able to survive your own cruelty later or will you be sad for the rest of your life? Probably the answer to that question tells on which side you are. And worser, the fact that the most cruel survives and kills the most noble is a good explanation on why our modern world looks like it does. There has been a natural, darwinianan selection but not choosing the most prepared to survive....but the most cruel one, and the one that has less consciousness.

We are a sad race, and have constructed a sad world :down:

[Iceman]

Hitman

I agree

One thing I remember my dad teaching me is the ones in control of the world are those who are not afraid to Murder.He was right.The Mobs of the world know this lesson well and used murder to keep people in line religiously.

Thank God for Jesus Christ who frees one from fear.Death is only a thing...and again will be swallowed up in the victory of life.


1 Corinthians 15
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[TteFAboB]

I still owe an answer to Skybird but for now I cannot resist and need to share this with Hitman and Iceman:

http://www.ruggedelegantliving.com/a/images/glass.half.full.jpg

Unlike animals, Men have an ellaborate mind, which gives him free-will to choose to be whatever he chooses to be, there is no darwinian natural selection of the cruel, all it takes for a cruel man to act is the inaction of a good man.

[snowsub]

I still owe an answer to Skybird but for now I cannot resist and need to share this with Hitman and Iceman:

http://www.ruggedelegantliving.com/a/images/glass.half.full.jpg

Unlike animals, Men have an ellaborate mind, which gives him free-will to choose to be whatever he chooses to be, there is no darwinian natural selection of the cruel, all it takes for a cruel man to act is the inaction of a good man.

The Engineers Reply:
The Glass has twice the capacity required! :P

[Iceman]

Off Topic...Snow sub your sig is a crack up....


Dive Dive.... :lurk:

[snowsub]

I know, I'll have to get rid off it soon, cause it's too distracting for me aswell, cracks me up everytime :arrgh!:

[Wim Libaers]

There has been a natural, darwinianan selection but not choosing the most prepared to survive....but the most cruel one, and the one that has less consciousness.

We are a sad race, and have constructed a sad world :down:

To the extent that "cruel" and "less consciousness" mean that one (actually, a group, not individuals) is prepared to use the best techniques available to survive, without arbitrary restrictions due to superstition or other cultural handicaps, this is indeed survival of the fittest.



"Noble intentions are a poor excuse for
stupid action. Man is the only species that
calls some suicidal actions “noble.” The rest
of creation knows better."
— Garrett Hardin