Strategies & Tricks

[Cpt.Insano]

This is probably one of many similar threads, but after looking around I can't seem to find a comprehensive thread that gives an outlay of tactics and strategies. I'm fairly new to SH III and while I'm not a zealous submarine buff, I have taken a liking to the game. Basically because it tries to be as realistic as possible, something that most companies that develop WW II games just don't seem to care about. To mention a few: the Blitzkrieg franchise, Codename Panzers (what a rape of this great historical conflict), and so the list goes on.

Anyway, I try to play the game with the realism settings as high as possible, I'm using the RuB mod as well. What I'm having trouble with is developing good strategies, manually plotting torpedo solutions is a real pain (and not mention actually inflicting a hit!). Sometimes I get the impression that you have to be a math major in order to play this game properly.

So I wonder if people could share their strategies when attacking. How do you plan ahead, what are your prefered methods when sinking those bloody merchants ? I've looked through the community manual (which is very well done by the way) and it explained many of the concepts I was having trouble with (like AoB for instance), but I couldn't find any direct hints or explanations on how to actually conduct an attack in the most succesfull manner.

I hope someone can perhaps explain some of the things I mentioned above :) Would also like to add that SH III has one of the best gaming communities, so keep it up :rock:

[Etienne]

AOB 90, range about 500m, aim into the fuel tank. Or the ammo bunker.

[The Avon Lady]

Red Devil's SH3 Tutorials (http://hometown.aol.co.uk/dominicobaggio/SilentHunterIII.html).

Nuf sed!

[Krupp]

Cpt.Insano wrote:
I try to play the game with the realism settings as high as possible

Then you might find it interesting to know how the real Kaleuns were adviced to do things. Get yourself a copy of "U-Boat Commander's Handbook" and you'll have a whole new perspective for this sim.

The game has it's weaknesses and if you take an advantage from these, only one you are kidding is yourself. Learn how they were supposed to do and re-enact.

Here's few headlines from the table of content's:
-Fundamental rules for the underwater attack
-mounting the underwater attack
-carrying out the underwater attack
-methods of attack
-use (expenditure) of torpedoes
-action after underwater attack

and the list goes on...

Learning these in the sim and then using the knowledge gained from the training missions in your patrols give awsome feeling. I thought that I was a good commander before I learned these (still learning) and boy how wrong I was. The game has NEVER been this good before :up: I got mine from Amazon.com and the price was only 8,95 USD. But youre the captain and you play it like you wan't :D

[P_Funk]

If you are having strategic difficulties beyond the manual targeting woes then you might want to give playing with auto-targeting on or at least Weapons Officer solution plotting a shot (that isn't necessarily cheating becuase sometimes the Weapons Officer did plot the solution based on info provided to him by the Captain). Once you get a feel for how your ship handles and how to approach an enemy with the intent to attack then you can move ahead to the more advanced mind boggling stuff. What I think many new Kaleuns suffer from when trying to play purist style right away is mind overload; suffering from the demand for too many decisions without enough experience to act instictively.

My advice is turn off the Manual TDC and cruise a few patrols until you develop a style of play. Don't be afraid to die a few times or play a risky gambit, thats the beauty of computer games: infinite replayability .:up:

Also you should probably read alot of outside sources on how to play. THis is an excellent guide on how to do many different kinds of manual plotting. Differnt styles for different minds or situations:
http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/#Introduction

ANd just in general experiment. Have fun. Maybe even read some real documentation about U-boats. There is a literal plethora of information out there. If you can immerse yourself in the method of thought in U-boat command then you can start to understand the correct moves in situations. Its tricky but once you get comfortable you'll wonder how you ever missed.

[Ducimus]

Strategies & Tricks, (cliff notes version)


1. Get yourself a speed to distance travelled chart and how to use it. Familiarize yourself with convoy reports. Slow, mediem, fast all translate to a spcific knot. Plan your intercepts by a time table to be where you need to be, at the hour you need to be there.


2. Your soundmans partially deaf. Its best to take his seat and show him how its done. Espeically when your in a convoys reported area, but dont have a bearing on it yet.

3. When you do have a sound bearing, take your time. Take a bearing, then take another bearing 5 mins later. Start plotting When you have an idea on where he is, and where hes going, get on the firing bearing however is appropriate given the conditions at that time.

4. Check the weather. If the winds are past 7 knots, id lean on using contact detonators. If its at or below 7 knots, id go magnetic. Speaking of fish, id avoid the G7E II's until G7E III's are avialable and stick with G7A's.

5. Two fish per C2, C3, T3, or any other heavy ship, for three reasons:

a.) prematures happen, if so you still have 1 more fish going downrange if one does. If both hit its a 90% probable kill

b.) Your chances of sinking anything but a 2000 ton merchant with a single fish is VERY slim - it can happend, not very often.

c.) Its very hard to time the impact on 4 seperate targets in the same time period. YOu want your fish to hit around the same time. THey got the warning with the first impact, by the time the 4th fish gets down range theyve gotten out of the way.


6. Save your forward torpedo's for convoys for prize targets only. Expend the aft torpedos on those single merchants and coup de grace shots.

[Rosencrantz]

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm

You could check that adress. It's US Navy material but usefull.

[Trav_R]

Some info on manual targeting. It doesn't have to be mind boggling. About 80% of the time, it's not necessary to do all of that calculation. You can calculate range easily once you ID the target right? Then the only other two things to calculate are AOB and speed. So, I'm gonna give you two easy ways to calculate AOB and speed that work well most of the time.

To easily calculate speed: ID the target, note its length in meters. Point your periscope crosshairs ahead of the target and leave them. When the ship's bow crosses your vertical crosshair, start the stopwatch. When the stern crosses, stop the stopwatch. Divide the traget's length by the amount of time it took. This gives you the target's speed in meters per second. Divide by .514 to get speed in knots. If you don't have a calculator handy (it makes things easier) you can use a nomograph, which can be downloaded at some of the mod sites around here. I generally do this a couple times to make sure I'm accurate. Now you have the speed.

For AOB: The easiest way, that doesn't require any super math skills is to check out the recognition manual. Once you've ID'd the ship, click on the button on the recognition manual that shows you the ship from different angles. Look at the picture that shows the target at 20 degrees AOB. Find something on that picture that will be easy to identify while looking through your scope. Usually, there will be something that's easy to spot. Sometimes the aft mast is just behind the superstructe. Sometimes the fore mast is almost to the end of the bridge. Just look, and find something that's easy to see. Then, when your target looks exactly like it does in the 20 degree AOB picture, manually set your TDC to 20 degrees AOB, either port or starboard depending on your target. Then put the TDC back to automatic, and as long as you and the target don't change course anymore, you're done with AOB.

With speed and AOB set, all you need now is a quick range update and you can hit anything. Of course, you'll still want to launch with a low gyro angle, because no matter how good your calculations are, with a high gyro angle you've still got a good chance to miss.

[jherdt]

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm

You could check that adress. It's US Navy material but usefull.

Thanks for this great find! There is a lot of info here. The audio section containing actual recordings of attack runs is incredible. I spent an entire morning exploring the files.

www.hnsa.org

r/Jim

[jherdt]

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attack/index.htm

You could check that adress. It's US Navy material but usefull.

Thanks for this great find! There is a lot of info here. The audio section containing actual recordings of attack runs is incredible. I spent an entire morning exploring the files.

www.hnsa.org

r/Jim

[Cpt.Insano]

I am overwhelmed by the response, thanks a lot. Helpful links and tips, I'll put some u-boot litterature on my wishing list for Christmas :)

I'm starting to grasp the mechanics of this game, so I'm slowly improving. I love it when I can hear the ASDIC closing in and the DD bombs exploding all around me, this game has atmosphere!

Anyway, thanks a lot again!

[The Avon Lady]

Another satisfied customer!

:/\rlz:

[scrapser]

Get to know your enemy. This comes with experience but if you play long enough at any realism setting, you will definitely become proficient in your attacks. Someone above states single torpedo kills are extremely rare. I personally have reached a point where single torpedo kills are the rule, not the exception on every ship. I have used this to improve my total tonnage per patrol (for example, I sank 5 battleships and one carrier in a single patrol at sea - not the sitting ducks in harbors).

Keel shots are more lethal and enable you to shoot at low angle on the bow. Every ship has weak spots to aim at. Get to know the sea states and how deep you need to set the torpedo to run. Don't engage escorts with torpedos unless it's for survival. Plan what ships you will attack and in what order. Have your escape route in mind before beginning the attack. Take advantage of the weather conditions; they help you more than the enemy when submerged.

scrapser

[scrapser]

Deleted (duplicate post).

[Krupp]

Making single torpedo attacks in the game against targets that would definetily require multiple shots for real is one of the things in the game that takes away realism a player can give instead of using weaknesses of the game where you can rely on certain patterns.

Your goal is to destroy the enemy without warning. I don't think that a real commander would take the risk of failing in this by shooting only one torpedo on a target that could be sinked by one but propably will need more hits. What if that one torpedo misses, or is a dud. Or hit's but won't sink the target? You have failed in you mission. To destroy the enemy without warning and in that first attack. Things could get ugly for a real U-Boat and crew after that.

The rediculous tonnages gained in the sim is the major weakness IMO. In my latest career, it's May 40, (IUB 100%), I have been in four patrols (144days) and sinked "Only" 14 ships (about 55 000 tons). I find that it is somewhat "realistic" amount. And this is the first time in my 7-8 month's of playing SH3. The tonnage has always been way high. (The realistic career lenght in SHcommander is a must.)

These are few things to make your career more "realistic" (I hate this word but don't know what else to use)

-If you know the enemy won't be able to see you until you are within the 12 km radius (clear day). It is wrong to take any advantage from it. Keep the target's mast tops or funnel tops at sight. That is enough and then he wont be able to see you. Overhaul and meet the enemy. Don't just dive waiting on the plotted course of the target.

-Stay in your Patrol area (Area of operations). I have 250 km radius circle from the patrol grid. I have a patrol pattern that covers the whole area and it lasts about 4 weeks to finish. Then I have 2 + 2 weeks for the inbound and outbound cruise ( for type VII). I leave this area only if there is a convoy or task force near enough to pursuit and attack. This is propably the most important thing to to do. U-Boats are sent to cover certain areas by BdU. It is not your job to be bored about it and move to high traffic areas.

-The attack methods I use are (or try to be as close) from the "book". Visual lookout is the method of U-Boat to find it's prey. Listening devices are only auxiliary instrument for this (i.e., when the visibility forces the boat to be submerged, or in search pattern for expected target). From sighting, overhauling and plotting to surfaced and submerged approach to final attack run, I try to use the lightning (moon/sun), weather (windward(leeward) methods a real captain would have to think. Periscope technicues etc.

-In the attack. Appropriate use of torpedoes per target(s). Using "fan" patterns to make sure the target will be destroyed. If I see a T 3 class tanker, Im going to shoot it 3 times, even if I know that It could be done by only one hit. How could a real captain know that?

-U-Boat is not a gunship. If you use it, use the appropriate ranges and techniques.

-Every merchant could be a uboat trap. Don't just cruise in and shoot that poor ship to peaces. You need to observe the target for any possible weapons (from submerged) and then make the decision to attack from surfaced or submerged.

-Etc.......

THere are so many small things that make the game better, if YOU allow it. And yes, there sure is some things you can and should make easier.

And last, every one should play the game like one want's. But when the word "realism" comes out, one should think what it means from different point of views. It is easy to get tonnage in the game. That is not a thing I would brag about.

Now you can start kicking :rotfl:

[scrapser]

To redress my single torpedo strategy, I use this approach in my initial attack. I know where the ship's soft spots are and generally set up my attack to take advantage of a "kill" probability. Once the fireworks start, the ships slow down and if the first torpedo didn't sink the ship, I can finish it off with others as needed. This is how I attack fast moving task forces and maximize my available torpedos.

Let's say you come across three battleships and are lucky enough to get into close range for the attack. I position my boat about 1.5 km's from the convoy's path and shoot a keel shot at the lead battleship with my stern tube from maximum range. While the torpedo is enroute, I turn 90 degrees to bring my forward tubes to bear. If the stern tube isn't a dud, then it will either blow up the ship or cripple it. The remaining battleships always turn to port, bringing them into very close range of my boat. As they pass, I hit each one with a single keel shot (sometimes two if things are getting dicey).

The goal is to at least cripple the ships, so I can finish them off later if necessary (this is how I bagged 5 battleships and a carrier from two task forces in a single patrol). It works and seems realistic within the parameters of the sim. Obviously this isn't realistic compared to the actual war, so some may not want to use this approach.

scrapser

[Krupp]

@ scrapser: That sounds really effecient way to get maximum result and I tip my hat :) That's just not my way to do. Maybe I should, who knows :roll: Just read the next example:

One thing bugs me. The torpedo effeciency (or should I say ineffediency). Here is a free quote from Kretschmer's KTB (U-99):

October 18. 23:30
target 7000 ton merchant, torpedo hit in front of the bow mast, ship dives quickly, range 1750m (missed the original target and hit the ship behind it in the next colonn).

23:55
target 6000 ton merchant, torpedo hit in front of the bow mast, huge explosion and the ship sinks, burning in green flames from the bow to the bridgel range 750m.

October 19. 01:38
target 6000 ton merhcant, torpedo hit in front of the bow mast, ships sinks and explodes, range 945m.

01:55
target 7000 ton merchant, torpedo hit in front of the bow mast, ship sinks less than 40 seconds, range 975 meters.

Ok, now try the same in the game. I mean sink 6000 - 7000 ton merchants with single hits in bow. I have never done that. I think it is not even possible in the game. I just attacked a C3 and shot it twice in the bow from 1000 meters. Both hit and she didn't even slow down from the convoy. Just listed to port and started to burn. Be sure, like oleg maddog would say. And like we know, most of the C2/3 class ships ever sink after one hit like in Kretschmer's example.

Any ideas what to do? I know there is Teddy Bärs tonnage mod coming, but will it solve this? I wan't it to be possible to sink ships with one torpedo, even tho I have been preaching about the importance for multiple shots. You don't always have the possibility to shoot more than one torpedo...

Is the torpedo so underpowered or the ship(s generally) too tough? I wan't a good compromise between these two.

Edit: Yes yes, it would make the tonnages go even more higher. But i hate when the ships refuse to sink after a fine hit (not to mention if it is underkeel mag hit) with these oversized rubber d..torpedoes. :damn:

<----- See my pic there, that is not a face of determination, poor guy looks like hes about to burst in tears cos the bad allied ship won't sink.

[scrapser]

My experience with C2's and C3's has left me with the impression that C2's are almost a waste of ordinance. I usually aim right at the front of the main deck structure on both. C3's almost always break in two but C2's are a roll of the dice. Someone wrote in a separate thread to aim at the smoke stack and the ship will flounder and sink after a few minutes but I've yet to see this happen.

Troop ships are also puzzling. If the seas are rough, an impact shot amidships almost always blows them up but any other sea state requires a keel shot halfway between the stern and the midship point. This shot causes the ship to burn and slowly sink by the stern.

scrapser

[Etienne]

Check your torp depth. You might be hitting above or below the vulnerable spot.

[Schpeedy]

Radio antenas?
I surface right next to a ship, and I don't want it to be able to call for help (planes, destroyers, patrol boats), what exactly do I shoot on which ships?

And if I'm in a type II, can my AA gun take it out?
For that matter, can an AA gun sink a bigger ship at all?

[Marhkimov]

Your AA guns can rake various items off of other ships (funnels, lifeboats, vents, towers, bridges, guns, cargo, etc.). But I'm not so sure that you can shoot off a radio antenna and expect no reinforcements... I doubt that ubi modelled it that way.


You probably can't sink a ship with AA, since his armor/hull is probably resistant to small arms fire. Even the AA gun from the Type II can do some damage, but don't try and sink anything with it.

[Krupp]

Radio antennas? Of course they can be blown off. :doh: I saw a documentary where a highly trained non-german-speaking american crew did that with a hijacked german uboat on surface to a german destroyer. It is easy. :88)

[Menelaus]

whatever happened to Augie's mod to the ID handbook marking the various zones, including ammo, keel, engine, fuel etc?

Its been a while since I played but that really helped me work out where best to send my love packets.

[scrapser]

whatever happened to Augie's mod to the ID handbook marking the various zones, including ammo, keel, engine, fuel etc?

Its been a while since I played but that really helped me work out where best to send my love packets.

Use the "Full Vulnerability" Mod and you will see the soft spots on warships as well. They are both still available through the Mods forum.

scrapser

[Menelaus]

I must have missed the link.
No, wait, I see the link to Augie's mod, but its the generic one that goes nowhere. I fear the link is gone for good. Not that I have any idea if its compatible with v1.04b anyway. I hoped it would be downloadable and printable like the recognition handbook over at http://U-Boot.RealSimulation.com but I don't see it at all.

[StevenLohr]

The link below leads to a free-ware program that will calculate moon and sun rise/set times and twilight for any geographical location worldwide.

http://www.nightcal.co.uk/

Regards,
Steven Lohr