Dangerous Waters=Insane?

[Twitchy]

I was reading a review for Dangerous Waters recently and I noticed that they mentioned that DW is so difficult that "if SH3 made your head spin, Dangerous Waters will tear it right off". HOLy SH*T!

Please tell me there isn't a more insane subsim out there than SH3

[Dowly]

Well, the makers of DW make radar and sonar things for navy, so you can imagine how realistic it is. :)

I played it when it was released and trust me, there´s 1000 little buttons, which you can press.

Oh and dont forget the cool missions! You can launch a navy seals to carry out some blackops from your sub, they get a rubberboat and go. That was awesome!

For me the game was alittle too "Sim". But still it was a neat game!

[Syxx_Killer]

Yeah, it does have a steep learning curve, but when you learn how to play it is awesome. Knowing "something" is out there, but not sure what or where really adds to the immersion. I've been playing the series since 688i Hunter/Killer. Sub Command was kill in that you got the addition of Seawolf and Akula submarines. I was thrilled to be able to play as an Akula. There are no more tonnage wars. No more depth charges - if a DD detects you he can launch a helo and have him kill you are he can launch a torpedo and kill you that way. No more popping the scope up and setting the torpedo for 1m under the keel. :rotfl:

[gdogghenrikson]

Please tell me there isn't a more insane subsim out there than SH3

yup, there is

[gouldjg]

I loved sub command and am eagerly awaiting seeing DW in shops near me.

The thing is I have to learn it all again and man that is one steep earning curve.

I could never grasp tma so alway left that auto but everything else was better manual.

Does anyone know if there are any big mods for this game. I remember in sub command you could pilot any sub with one of the mods.

[CCIP]

I'm really looking forward to getting at it as well. I think the game should be marvelous.

For those used to 'old school' machinery simulators - sure, it'll seem daunting and uber-technical. But seeing how I come from the modern flight sim "school" myself, the prospect of messing with radars, sensors and tricky weapons makes my hands itch :)

[Excalibur Bane]

I tried it for about half an hour, learning curve is way too steep. But then, the game isn't designed to attract new people to a very niche market.

It might be great for a training simulator for the Navy but it makes a really bad game. Not really much fun to be had there. :down:

[JohnnyPotPie]

wait wait... the cats that made 688 made DW? IM SOLD, when will it be in stores in America?

[Syxx_Killer]

wait wait... the cats that made 688 made DW? IM SOLD, when will it be in stores in America?

It was released November 22. They also made Sub Command. Those who played Sub Command will feel right at home here with the subs. The frigate and aircraft make really cool additions.

Funny thing is, with this game, I can do manual TMA, but when it comes to manual targeting with SH3 I'm sunk. :lol:

[CCIP]

It might be great for a training simulator for the Navy but it makes a really bad game. Not really much fun to be had there. :down:

Aw come on, that's a terrible thing to say.

To each his own - you have to realize there's more in subsims for some people than shooting things out of the water every minute.

It's the same argument as often made against modern flight sims - too much learning, too many electronics, not enough guts and glory. But for some of us button-pushers and switchboard-freaks, they're really where all the fun is at, cause no old WWII bucket-o-bolts will give us enough to keep our hands busy. :)

[Hellcat]

The learning curve is blown outta proportion here guys, if you follow the included training videos and read the manual you'll be just fine. On the subject of gameplay, this is a thinking man's sim much like SH3 is. However whole different layers are added to play by the excellent multplayer-multistation platforms in game among other things.

Even then you can set some of the stations to be played by the computer if you find them a bit overwhelming at first. (this is a highly scalable sim)

[Kalach]

I was uninstalling the demo less than 10mins after I installed it :88)

I surfaced the sub and died, so i tried the helo but crashed it into the sea :oops:
The biggest reason I didn't like it though was I expected it to be a lot like SH3, with nice looking water and such, but it was more like Enigma :( (which was also uninstalled promptly)

SH3 has just set to high a standard of gameplay and atmosphere that no one else can come close to :up:

[Lane]

I have DW, a great sim . Read all about in the DW forums :D
New Patch soon to be released :D
Lane :D

[OneShot]

@Kalach : Well, without arguing SH3 has nicer Graphics then DW. BUT DW has a lot of atmosphere when you get into the game. And its a different style of game. Its not about sinking as many Freighters as possible, now its time for submarine hunt on all the possible levels of sub vs sub, ffg vs sub and airborne vs sub and a wild mix inbetween. Chasing one or two Akulas with a combination of 688, FFG and Helo (or MPA) is atmosphere.

And yes it has a steep learning curve but its doable once immerse yourself into the manual and look around for the freely available resources for help.

[Kiwi Zero Six]

It's not a hard game.

Or perhaps SH3ers are just unintelligent? :hmm:


:arrgh!:

[Charos]

If SH3 was ANY easier to play you would never wake up from your COMA.. :zzz:

[LuftWolf]

A couple of points on DW from someone inside the community:

1) "Dangerous Waters has a steep learning curve." DW has a steep learning curve in the sense that it takes a long time to exhaust the options in the simulator available to you for the variety of gameplay. It does not have a steep learning curve in the sense of being difficult to learn well enough to enjoy the game. Once an individual learns the basics of modern naval warfare in terms of learning the way the battlespace works and the logic of the controls, the experience of learning the sim becomes an expansion of one's skills and tools broadening the horizons of play, both in single player and, especially multiplayer. Mission designers are left completely empowered to tailor missions to any level of play, you can play the game from the very beginning able to complete your mission by taking a progressive approach to learning to play scenarios.

2) The Multiplayer Game and the Integrated Battlespace: Dangerous Waters has a multiplayer mode that is currently unparalleled in any other simulator ever produced. Mission designers have an enormous range of options in terms of combining the playable air, surface, and submarine platforms in cooperative or competitative play. Any Rules of Engagent can be brought into each individual mission. AND Multiple players can be assigned stations *on the same platform* to command a submarine, frigate, or airplatform. Have multiple crews dualing against other fully human commanded and crewed submarines.

3) A fully mature online community: DW is a game that has built up a solid and dedicated group of knowledgable players and real life naval specialists, located directly above the link for this SHIII forum, and at www.subguru.com , and The Commanders Academy and Dive Center (http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/index.php) (CADC) Any question you have about the sim can be answered within hours and members of the CADC are generally available to chat with you about the sim and do multiplayer clinic dives with you. For those of you who crave a hyperrealistic (or at least MORE realistic) and finessed simulator, you can take a look at a mod I had a hand in creating, LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Database Mod, available (shameless plug) at www.subguru.com or the CADC Mod Forum, now currently in BETA for it's 8th version, LWAMI 3.00. As well as a number of other thoroughly well done sound and interface mods, available, at Subguru. And, of course, many missions of all levels of difficulty for beginners and advanced players.


In 20 years of simming, I have never played a simulator with more potential for a stunning variety of gameplay and scalability. In five years of multiplayer gaming, I have never encountered a game that makes the concept of multiplayer gaming into a more engaging and immersive experience as Dangerous Waters.

For single player or online multiplayer, solo learning or inclusive community experience, Dangerous Waters is a direct hit and a must have for anyone remotely interested in naval warfare or simulators.

[Orm]

Every times, I submerge myself into a MP DW dive, adrenaline flows into my body. :cool:



http://seawolves.org/ssn/

[kiwi_2005]

DW is bloody hard. but there is an autocrew and theres some video tutorials on the other cd. The manual itself is 500+ pages :88)

But its cool commanding a RUSSIAN sub, took me ages to finish the first mission of the campaign, i would have to drop of some comrades and monitor the rebels going in and out of the bay. i always got detected by this other sub. Once a torpedo is fired from an enemy and it might be 20 miles away. Your dead. :)

[Kapitan]

im an akula skipper SSN nuclear powerd attack submarine my main role is under ice oparations ive been in command of akulas now for well over 3 maybe more years i forget.

DW is a realism sim i love it i command one of the most powerfullest non nuclear missile carrying submarines in the world, and i have the power to sink anything at any time thats what i like.

you guys sit around for hours lining up for a shot you fire four or five torps at a target and 3 hit with me its one or two and the thing is dead and i could be 15 miles away and heading away from the ships.

my submarine is mesured in second not cups of tea as your boats are, dont get me wrong U boats are nice but you have more choice of weaponary in DW and more atmosphere,

dangerous waters offers me to take the extreme i can go where you cant i can do what you cant i can sink what you cant.

my total in sunken tonnage exceades 500,000 tonnes and ive sunk less than 100 ships for that.

my point is yes its alot to master its alot to learn but oncve you get the basics you can do it, im still learning and i teach others under ice ops ive even wrote a manual on it, so i do know where you are coming from.

[CCIP]

you guys sit around for hours lining up for a shot you fire four or five torps at a target and 3 hit [and I only need one and the ship is dead]
---

my total in sunken tonnage exceades 500,000 tonnes and ive sunk less than 100 ships for that.


Unfortunately, neither of those things is uncommon for SHIII :nope:

[Kapitan]

u have to had it to you guys though you spend all that time lining up for a perfect shot but you shoud in theroy have more skill than most of us modern skippers.

with me i designate a target i lock it then fire 15 miles away i could be not much skill in that

[CCIP]

Doesn't DW have a really neat firing procedures though? That is, equalizing pressure, opening doors, then firing? Not to mention having to acquire lock first.

I haven't played the game yet, but that procedure somehow attracts me, more so than SHIII's TDC (especially since I'm not too good at using the damn TDC :doh: )

[Kapitan]

first of all you must get it on one of your sonars then classify it to a sierra contact, if the contact goes to master or M then its affermative traget because more than one sonar has lock.

go to the TMA (target motion analasis) screen and plot your target on there.

select weapon of choice torpedo or what ever

load the tube if its not already loaded

flood tubes

equilise the presure

open the door

Fire

[Onkel Neal]

Every times, I submerge myself into a MP DW dive, adrenaline flows into my body. :cool:



http://seawolves.org/ssn/

I second that!

[Driftwood]

Or you can use voice command........."Launch tube 1, launch tube 2." :up:

[Zepheron]

first of all you must get it on one of your sonars then classify it to a sierra contact, if the contact goes to master or M then its affermative traget because more than one sonar has lock.

go to the TMA (target motion analasis) screen and plot your target on there.

select weapon of choice torpedo or what ever

load the tube if its not already loaded

flood tubes

equilise the presure

open the door

Fire

You forgot change course and get the hell out of there, because firing just gave away your position ;)

[LuftWolf]

first of all you must get it on one of your sonars then classify it to a sierra contact, if the contact goes to master or M then its affermative traget because more than one sonar has lock.

go to the TMA (target motion analasis) screen and plot your target on there.

select weapon of choice torpedo or what ever

load the tube if its not already loaded

flood tubes

equilise the presure

open the door

Fire

And then the fun starts when the target fires back with a rocket torpedo running at over 200kts, or you hear a strong transient signal on sonar, and you realize he's firing at you with short range ballistic rocket that drops an active homing torpedo 500 yards to your six.

There are many ways to die in DW, but they all pretty much involve getting hit by a weapon, and in modern naval warfare, there are ALWAYS tactics and technical countermeasures that can save you. In modern naval warfare there is no unluck in dying, it means there was a manoever that could have saved you that you didn't do.


This makes for a varied gaming experience. In some MP games we exchange five salvoes at each other, each time evading well placed shots. Other times, we fire on each other with the first warning being a homing torpedo 500 yards away, and you realized you misjudged the acoustics and were detected and tracked for 30 minutes.

It's fun. :rock: :arrgh!:

[moose1am]

DW is nothing like ERT.

I was uninstalling the demo less than 10mins after I installed it :88)

I surfaced the sub and died, so i tried the helo but crashed it into the sea :oops:
The biggest reason I didn't like it though was I expected it to be a lot like SH3, with nice looking water and such, but it was more like Enigma :( (which was also uninstalled promptly)

SH3 has just set to high a standard of gameplay and atmosphere that no one else can come close to :up:

[CCIP]

I just tried the DW demo, and I did feel... insane :88)

The game is very different from SHIII, the comparison is totally unfair. It's even hard to call it a 'game'.

Personally, looks aside, I have a feeling I'm going to love this. But yowch - I don't even know where to start! I need a manual! :doh:

Looking through tutorial videos and matching them up to what I see in the game, it does give me an excellent impression. I think this has far more suspense and brains than SHIII can shake a stick at (but SHIII makes up for that in great graphics). It sort of reminds me of my experience with the Combat Mission games; they're not too pretty, there's no real career mod, but they have a lot of depth that makes them worth playing.

I'll seriously consider this as something to look into for the holidays. It's either learning this or modding SHIII over the winter break for me :hmm:

[Marhkimov]

It's either learning this or modding SHIII over the winter break for me :hmm:

Modding SH3!!!
Modding SH3!!!
Modding SH3!!!

:up: :up: :up:

[CCIP]

I'll try both. Just not at the same time. And making some videos, too.

I get the feeling I'm gonna be a lot more during this little vacation than I am now (and I'm writing several major research papers here) :88)

[Kapitan]

voice doesnt useualy work that well launch tube and it does some thing else

i use a mix voice and keyboard but if your doing MP then dont use voice especialy if your using team speak at the same time :doh:

i am thinking about a manual for akula skippers but im not to sure

[CptGrayWolf]

What Kapitain doesnt seem to understand is that SHIII players are also WWII buffs, it has nothing to do with how much more weaponry modern subs have or how far away we can shoot.

Heck, I heard that one Nuke subs carries more firepower then all the bombs that were dropped in WWII, so of course you can't compare.

Of course we take hours lining up our shot and stalking our convoys, that's the fun part. :arrgh!:

[Kapitan]

i know most of you are WW2 buffs but im not even compairing because i know you cant.

ohio typhoon vangaurd l'inflexible xia all carry more fire power that you guys can only dream of having.

but the best part of SH3 is the stalking and firing and the fact you get deapth charged rather than torpedoed

[Driftwood]

True, voice command has it's issues but I find it worth the effort. The ONLY time I've ever had trouble with it is going back to the sonar station. I've never had any trouble launching weapons using voice command. And using Teamspeak along with voice command isn't a problem either. You just have to keep which button is for voice command and which button is for Teamspeak straight in your head. But hey, everyone has their own preferences. :up:

[CptGrayWolf]

ohio typhoon vangaurd l'inflexible xia all carry more fire power that you guys can only dream of having.

:nope:

[LuftWolf]

It is very much the same in Combat Mission.

There are those who play it because its a sim, and there are those who play it because it is a historical game.

For those of you interested in things that aren't explicetly historical in nature, and enjoy quality simulations, its definately worth a look as a total package. Also for pure human vs. human adrenaline junkies, a little bit of investment will pay off in years of quality multiplayer gaming, as DW is going to be the premier multiplayer and modern naval simulation for some years to come.

I don't think it's necessarily right to come to the SHIII forum and talk one game over another, but I think there are lot of misconceptions about DW, which is a shame, because it is one hell of a good game. If you can say good on the internet. :|\

[Driftwood]

Do I hear any votes for Silent Hunter IV, US Subs in the Pacific? :yep:

[CptGrayWolf]

Do I hear any votes for Silent Hunter IV, US Subs in the Pacific? :yep:

Count me onboard captain!

:hmm: thinks ahead to SHIV :hmm: I wonder how much a pentium 6 will cost me.

[Fandango]

Personally, looks aside, I have a feeling I'm going to love this. But yowch - I don't even know where to start! I need a manual! :doh:

Don't forget there's a DW community a few webpages from this one full of people that will be happy to help you with any problems you may have. And once you have the game, don't forget the multi-station capability...that's a lot of fun... :up:

[CCIP]

I don't really doubt I can learn it.
I mean hey - before I went into SHIII, I knew absolutely nothing about submarines! I didn't even know what a Type VII was before I commanded it :rotfl:
But now I find myself giving people hours-long lectures on the Battle of the Atlantic and the historical usage of this or that equipment - lack of knowledge is nothing that a couple of months of research can't fix :up:

I'll definitely go to the community to check up on what to do. If there's anything I learned from SHIII and Subsim - a good community makes a game better.

I think 'hostile' comparisons of SHIII and DW will not do anyone any good, and really don't go anywhere regardless. There's no reason you have to choose one over the other, besides perhaps finding time to play.

[OneShot]

I think 'hostile' comparisons of SHIII and DW will not do anyone any good, and really don't go anywhere regardless. There's no reason you have to choose one over the other, besides perhaps finding time to play.

Amen to that :up:

[kiwi_2005]

Both games are very different, and they're both very good. But to go DW does this or SH3 does this compared to the other is silly. Still i have to have last word.

One thing ive notice that is different is one has really really bad graphics and the other doesn't. No guesses which one.
DW graphics are bad its like going back 5 yrs, the explosions are laughable, the subs are badly designed and theres no 3d interier its still that "old days look" 2d screens. The developers didn't give a crap about the graphics department, did they just get out the subcommand engine and slapped on a few water effects. I found the SCX mods that came out for Sub Command still beat the DW sub details by miles!
Ok but DW is all about realism, so graphics was on the bottom of the list, because of this you dont need a beast of a computer to play it. I got all 3d options on the highest in DW and she looks passable she would of been in the WOW factor 6yrs ago, but its a yawn now. If DW 2 ever came out, having a 3d intererior should be on the list, eye candy in games is a good thing!

I play both games.

[Takeda Shingen]

i know most of you are WW2 buffs but im not even compairing because i know you cant.

ohio typhoon vangaurd l'inflexible xia all carry more fire power that you guys can only dream of having.

but the best part of SH3 is the stalking and firing and the fact you get deapth charged rather than torpedoed

Yes, unfortunately the Ohio, Typhoon, Vanguard, l'Inflexible and Xia (which is laid up, by the way), are not playable. Besides, these guys do live in the early part of the 21st Century, just like you. They understand that nuclear weapons are powerful.

Dangerous Waters is a good sim. Play it if you feel you would enjoy it. Do not play it if you do not wish.

[CCIP]

This begs the question:

Would playing a nuclear missile sub make an interesting sim, anyway? :hmm:

[CCIP]

Oh, and by the way, I just asked my local computer store to see if they can order in a copy of DW for me. :up:

[Kapitan]

well it depends on what floats your boat realy im a nuke guy nuke skipper nuke lover i command nukes period :D

one single typhoon can destroy the northern hemisphere one ohio can take out the same area a vanguard could take most of the northern hemisphere so could the l'inflexible the xia could take out a largeish country

xia isnt that powerful and is sort of laid up pending the xia is to be replaced by type 094 SSBN

[CCIP]

well it depends on what floats your boat realy im a nuke guy nuke skipper nuke lover i command nukes period :D


But is there a game which actually allows you to do that? That's what I was getting at. I mean, would there be any interesting gameplay involved in operating a nuclear missile boat, beyond what you get from using, say, a nuclear attack boat? :hmm:

[LuftWolf]

Well, in an extensive mod of the Dangerous Waters predecessor, called Sub Command eXtreme, the modders included a few SSBN's (nuclear ballistic missile submarines). Within the operations of submarine forces, these submarines have a particular tactical role within their larger strategic mission. Missions designed for these ballistic missile boats were designed with those tactics in mind.

So, yes, there is good gameplay involved in commanding a SSBN, within the design of the missions. Mission designers are given a lot of latitude by the game engine to create scenarios for the playable platforms that are entertaining and true to life.

[Kapitan]

a scenario of hunt for red october could be good and also crimsion tide

maybe a few others are good

[Dowly]

Released November 22th?! My friend got the game over six months ago! By "not-so-legal" ways, tho.

Sorry for the offtopic

[CCIP]

It's the retail version that's out now. It was out for a while by online order only through Battlefront.

[Smaragdadler]

...
Personally, looks aside, I have a feeling I'm going to love this. But yowch - I don't even know where to start! I need a manual! :doh:
...


I had the same problem like you. That's why I started to collect tips I've found in the DW- and the old battlefront-forums. The result is
called 'Notfallmappe - The Landlubbers Survival Guide to Dangerous Waters'
The best thing about it - is, that -
you can download version 0.6 at www.subguru.com. :yep:

[VegaBond]

I don't really doubt I can learn it.
I mean hey - before I went into SHIII, I knew absolutely nothing about submarines! I didn't even know what a Type VII was before I commanded it :rotfl:
But now I find myself giving people hours-long lectures on the Battle of the Atlantic and the historical usage of this or that equipment - lack of knowledge is nothing that a couple of months of research can't fix :up:

I'll definitely go to the community to check up on what to do. If there's anything I learned from SHIII and Subsim - a good community makes a game better.


Yeah I also bring up those battle of atlantic discussions now as well

[Kapitan]

i think thats something people use against me my "lack of knowlage" on the russian navy despite the fact ive been heavily researching for over 10 years on it and have almost compleated a rather long project on the kursk its take 5 years so far projection is another 2 or 3.

despite having 10 years worth of re search i find that im told i know nothing and what do you know your just such and such well when i do say ive got this this and this kinda shuts em up

[kiwi_2005]

Well Kapitain, you might be able to help on the Kilo. I jump threads and went to no-mans land yesterday (DW threads) in search of some good tutorials on the Kilo Improved. I chose to play the game using this sub. Got directed to http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/index.php

After some reading i found the kilo is good mainly for attacking ships. submerge speed is only 20knots, torpedos distance is only 20 knots and if i were to come across a seawolf or 688i i should avoid? or have a Akula around to help. Have i got a huge disadvantage going up against a seawolf or 688i in my diesel boat? Im practicing using the mission editor and setting up some missions with lots of destroyers a Nimitz carrier and 1 or 2 688i's in the Gibraltra.

I love this diesel boat

[LuftWolf]

After some reading i found the kilo is good mainly for attacking ships. submerge speed is only 20knots, torpedos distance is only 20 knots and if i were to come across a seawolf or 688i i should avoid? or have a Akula around to help. Have i got a huge disadvantage going up against a seawolf or 688i in my diesel boat? Im practicing using the mission editor and setting up some missions with lots of destroyers a Nimitz carrier and 1 or 2 688i's in the Gibraltra.

The Kilo is at a signifcant disadvantage in ASW because of the short range and limit numbers of its wireguided torpedoes, and especially, its lack of a Towed Array, the primary sonar system used to detect, classify, and track submarines. However, the Kilo Improved does have the advantage of being [perhaps, maybe] at least as quiet as the SeaWolf (a submarine that costs 4.3 BILLION dollars MORE than the Kilo) at low speeds, making the Kilo a very difficult opponent to find and track.

In ASW against the nuke boats (SW, 688i, and Akula I/II), the Kilo is a bit of the odd-card. In terms of your tactical options, I would try to avoid detection at all costs by staying slow and changing your depth above and below the layers. If you are detected and fired upon, it will then be at close range, and you have a chance to score a kill with your shorter ranged torpedoes. But it is hard to be aggressive in a Kilo in ASW, since, as you pointed out, it is designed for ASuW (anti-ship). However, one notable exception to this is in shallow water, where a Towed Array cannot operate, and where a Kilo is designed to perform the best. In that environment, you have a good chance to win in ASW, since your quieting is superior to that of the nuke boats and your sensors are only somewhat less sensitive than the non-Towed Array sonars (sphere and hull) of the other boats, and in general most detections are at shorter range near the coasts.

[kiwi_2005]

Thanks for that LuftWolf. :up:

[Takeda Shingen]

i think thats something people use against me my "lack of knowlage" on the russian navy despite the fact ive been heavily researching for over 10 years on it and have almost compleated a rather long project on the kursk its take 5 years so far projection is another 2 or 3.

despite having 10 years worth of re search i find that im told i know nothing and what do you know your just such and such well when i do say ive got this this and this kinda shuts em up

:roll:

[kiwi_2005]

Been playing DW for a few days now commanding the kilo improved. When playing SH3 and submerged there's really nothing much to do except man the sonar and listen for contacts. Or up the time and quickly find a contact. But in DW when submerged which is always, theres heaps to do. Learning the sonars, broadband, narrowband, head to persicope depth to recharge my diesel engines, rasie the rsm, listen for messages. etc.,

I love this diesel boat :rock:

[kiwi_2005]

recharge my diesel engines

:o

Recharge my batteries!

[kiwi_2005]

Im running a mission made from the editor in DW. Real simple. My Kilo Improved SS up aganist a SSBN US Sub placed about 50miles away from me. All autocrew off. With the autocrew off do i still have to search for targets - watch the radar, or will the computer tell me about a sonar contact then leave it up to me to do everything else.

Its taking along time to find that SSBN sub! lol

And ive been playing to much SH3 i think cause im sitting in front of the sonar listening for contacts. :rock:

[SteamWake]

I have never gotten the attempt to compare DW to SH3.

There nothing alike.

There was a short learning curve for SH3 but I never considered it to be "difficult".

There is a steep learning curve for DW and I found it to be "challanging" but like any other program once you get the hang of it its not that hard.

If you want to try something with a steep learning curve while remaining confusing try X3 Reunion.. oh check that you might want to wait till it gets patched up.

I got DW months ago when you could still get the bound manual with it. (By quite leagle means). :up:

[Fandango]

My Kilo Improved SS up aganist a SSBN US Sub placed about 50miles away from me.

50nm are too much!!!... you'll be spending hours looking at that sonar!!! :D

[LuftWolf]

Some eyecandy for you guys from a Multiplayer Game.

I'm in the Kilo looking through the perscope, and that's my friend and OPFOR Furia in the Oliver Hazard Perry FFG, trying to hunt me down.

Enjoy! :cool:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6082/furiasffg6vg.jpg

[kiwi_2005]

50nm are too much!!!... you'll be spending hours looking at that sonar!!!
Yes guys at DW forum warned me on that one! :D

I'm in the Kilo looking through the perscope, and that's my friend and OPFOR Furia in the Oliver Hazard Perry FFG, trying to hunt me down.



:cool: What happened did he get you?


This DW editor is brilliant! Creating your own campaign is a breeze!. :|\

[Marhkimov]

I love graphics... But I also love gameplay...

So I am torn between SH3 (beauty with little brains) and DW (brains but no beauty).


Hehe, a blonde and a braniac... Which would you choose? :lol:

[goldorak]

I love graphics... But I also love gameplay...

So I am torn between SH3 (beauty with little brains) and DW (brains but no beauty).


Hehe, a blonde and a braniac... Which would you choose? :lol:


Both :yep:
The main problem with DW are the models, some good looking models for subs, and ships would be a great improvement over what we have now.

[kiwi_2005]

Well it aint that hard, In a practice mission with autocrew off i created i sunk a Nimitz CVN and a AUS Colins sub for practice, but i forgot that i also had added a US Seawolf, so after I fired my torpedos i had given myself away, next thing the seawolf fires a torpedo, from about 15miles away i evade go deep but not that deep cos a kilo is limited to only about 350feet - could be wrong here but im sure she is a shallow hunter. im hearing the pinging getting louder and louder... im letting of countermessures.... im zigzagging, i know i'll go quiet that'll fool them...boom! im dead :).
Commanding a Kilo Improved SS diesel boat probably isn't the ideal sub to start learning the game with, i think the diesel and having to go to snorkel depth to recharge batteries she kinda reminds me of a XXI, is what attracted me. Also targets can be detected from only 10miles approx but anything longer could be tricky, from my experience, yet im still learning. The Kilo is very quiet.

So ignore the graphics, this game is all about hrs of sneaking around or game over man in 15 min. Plus the Editor is very very good.

[lesrae]

Kiwi - I think you're getting your metric and imperial mixed up mate - the Kilo can dive to about 300 metres.

http://www.scs-dangerouswaters.com/platkilo.html

[kiwi_2005]

the Kilo can dive to about 300 metres.

:damn:

im learning

[goldorak]

:damn:

im learning

:rotfl: even Nasa managed to screw up a mission on mars (the probe crashed on the planet) because they used metric units while the firm that developped the probe used non-metric units.

[Fandango]

The main problem with DW are the models, some good looking models for subs, and ships would be a great improvement over what we have now.

I agree with that. The graphic is not bad but it could be better... :know:

As for gameplay, the game is awesome!. I played a two hour online multistation mission with another guy on a Seawolf yesterday . I was manning the Target Motion Analysis station (manually!!!) and the weapon station and he was manning the sonar and the rest. We talked to each other through TeamSpeak and cooperating was very cool...I updated positions of the contacts from what he told me from the sonar station and we hit two AKULA and a ship! :rock:

[LuftWolf]

I'm in the Kilo looking through the perscope, and that's my friend and OPFOR Furia in the Oliver Hazard Perry FFG, trying to hunt me down.



:cool: What happened did he get you?


This DW editor is brilliant! Creating your own campaign is a breeze!. :|\

I put a torpedo into his bow at under 3nm... :cool:

But he shrugged it off and captured the harbor I was defending, although he never got me, as I dodged six of his torpedoes and four from a nearby 688i. :|\ I finished the mission with no torpedoes left, no decoys left, and 2% battery.

You can read the full AAR here, at the Commanders Academy and Dive Center:

http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/showthread.php?t=657

Enjoy. :)

Cheers,
David

[kiwi_2005]

Im always getting the TMA wrong :damn: im missing by yards, unless its a lock on torpedo i'll hit my target. I set up the TMA the first time and its ok, but if i miss and update the TMA, its all crap.

Practice practice.... must get hold of kapitain tommorrow for target practice!

[LuftWolf]

Well, keep in mind, unlike the TDC, where you have to be spot on with your solution unless you fire a good sized spread, the TMA can be a bit imprecise because you are firing homing or wakehoming torpedoes.

Unless you are trying to thread a shot on a specific target in waters where there are a lot of contacts like neutrals or that you'd rather not shoot, your TMA is to establish an area in which the target is most likely, called a "datum".

In modern naval warfare, you typically fired on datums rather than on what you believe is the exact location of the target, and this alters the way in which you use your weapons, firing on a probability area which to some degree accounts for the target's immediate reactions in avoiding the torpedo or torpedoes, since they are usually picked up on sonar at launch.

For example, with wakehoming torpedoes and a large contact running at moderate speed, you only have to place the torpedo behind the target somewhere that it has been in the last 5-15 minutes or so, and the torpedo will find he wake and ride it to the target. With homing torpedoes, they have a reasonably wide search area, and a seeker range of a mile or more, so you only need to have a general idea of where the contact is and will be.

Of course, "general idea" is a relative term when the ocean is hundreds of thousands of square miles. :-j

In modern submarine warfare there is always a balance between good enough and too late, and TMA is a process that exemplifies this. You will get a good feel for how precise a solution you need for each of your weapons and how to employ them most effectively against targets based on your confidence of where they are and where they are likely to be when the business end of your weapon is looking for them several minutes later. :up:

I applaude you for learning TMA. :rock: :rock: :rock:

[_alphaBeta_]

This thread has sparked my interest in this game. :up:

I've found that following the release of this game has been confusing. It has recently been re-released through another vendor, correct? It's essentially the same game with included patches, and doesn't include the wonderful manual I've been hearing about. Is that the current situation?

Also, does DW have a free camera view similar to SH3? I really like giving maneuvering orders, and then watching it happen in free camera. How about control of the ships / subs - is the interface similar to SH3 in that you can do anything you like as far as speed, heading, depth etc.?

I know the graphics are not on the SH3 level, but that doesn't really bother me. I know this is a little OT, but I'm curious to know some information on this game. Like SH3, it's geared for a select audience, and I want to make sure I'm part of that audience. How's replayability? I'm not a huge fan of scripted missions.

[LuftWolf]

This thread has sparked my interest in this game. :up:

I've found that following the release of this game has been confusing. It has recently been re-released through another vendor, correct? It's essentially the same game with included patches, and doesn't include the wonderful manual I've been hearing about. Is that the current situation?

The printed manual that was originally sold with the internet order version will be made available for sale by Strategy First online very shortly. It is well worth it to pick it up, but there are video tutorials included with the game to help you get started right away and many community resources online to answer any other questions you may have. It is a very handy reference, but by no means absolutely necessary to begin learning the game given the wealth of other resources available. So there is no need to wait until the manual is available to buy DW. :up:


Also, does DW have a free camera view similar to SH3? I really like giving maneuvering orders, and then watching it happen in free camera. How about control of the ships / subs - is the interface similar to SH3 in that you can do anything you like as far as speed, heading, depth etc.?

There is a 3-d camera view available in Dangerous Waters as well. :up:


I know the graphics are not on the SH3 level, but that doesn't really bother me. I know this is a little OT, but I'm curious to know some information on this game. Like SH3, it's geared for a select audience, and I want to make sure I'm part of that audience. How's replayability? I'm not a huge fan of scripted missions.

Dangerous Water is a sim aimed at anyone with an interest in quality simulations or naval warfare. The replayability is virtually unlimited because of the incredibly powerful mission editor included with the package and the large number of knowledgable mission designers in the community. The missions themselves can be designed to generate random starting locations and inclusion probabilites for all platforms and objects, meaning that you can play the same mission dozens of times and never see the same setup. This way of designing missions is very popular for scenarios intended for multiplayer.

Which is a WHOLE other reason to buy the game. The multiplayer mode in Dangerous Waters is breathtaking and unrivaled in any other game on the market in any genre. Up to 32 players can control individual submarines, surface vessels, or airplatforms in a single mission and/or multiple players can take command of a single platform and work stations as a team to crew a platform. In a major game we have scheduled for 12/17, we have two FFG's with full crews, a P-3 Orion with full crews, and two Iranian Kilos with full crews, and we are currently looking to expand the mission that we intend to play to accommidate more players as the demand to join this session has been quite high.

Of course, not all multiplayer games are scheduled like this with so many players. I typically try to play one or two sub vs. sub duals every night with people I have meet in the DW community.

You simply cannot go wrong with Dangerous Water for single player or multiplayer action if you have the slightest interest in either quality, immersive simulators or naval warfare. :rock: :arrgh!:

[_alphaBeta_]

Thanks for the detailed description.

For anyone else reading, the manual is now available from Strategy First's website. The price is about $15, so everyone that bought this previously probably didn't have to pay this "surcharge."

Anyway, I guess I'll but from them unless anyone has a better suggestion. The manual isn't showing up in the retail stores yet.

[LuftWolf]

I was just about to SPAM this thread with that very same information. :-j

Actually, regarding the price of the manual, the original Battlefront version of the game was available in two versions: one without the manual and one with the manual.

The prices were almost exactly what they are now for the game by itself or the game+manual.

So there is no "surcharge" now, just a little help for SCS to cover the cost of printing the manual. :up: :)

[goldorak]

I was just about to SPAM this thread with that very same information. :-j

Actually, regarding the price of the manual, the original Battlefront version of the game was available in two versions: one without the manual and one with the manual.

The prices were almost exactly what they are now for the game by itself or the game+manual.

So there is no "surcharge" now, just a little help for SCS to cover the cost of printing the manual. ;) :up:

Lets be precise, the manual was always included on the cd's in pdf format.
The only difference being that it was possibile to buy the printed manual.




Arrrghhhhhhhhh WTH happened to my avatar ? :shifty:

[Fandango]

I recommend the game!... :up:

Luft, where do you meet for multiplayer?!?!...I would like to join you, guys!!! :damn:

[LuftWolf]

I just added you to my ICQ.

It seems even with Gamespy and Hyperlobby support, ICQ is easily the best gamefinding program available for DW.

Also, you can check out the Availabilities and Scheduled Events calender at the Commanders Academy and Dive Center, which is what we are using for scheduled events now. Also, feel free to post when you are available for games on the calender and I'm sure you will get a response for a match very quickly. :)

The calender can be found here: http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/calendar.php

It's a recent addition to the CADC, and one that we hope will be used more and more. :up:

[_alphaBeta_]

So there is no "surcharge" now, just a little help for SCS to cover the cost of printing the manual. :up: :)
Fair enough, I didn't know that. :know:

[drEaPer]

Just for the record: The free view camera is different from SH3:
DW only shows data you entered into the nav map. Turning on the cheat "Show Truth" makes it possible to see all enemies in 3D view camera though.

[Marhkimov]

Just for the record: The free view camera is different from SH3:
DW only shows data you entered into the nav map. Turning on the cheat "Show Truth" makes it possible to see all enemies in 3D view camera though.

It would have been nice if SH3 worked in the same fashion... :shifty:

I hate gods eye mode... but in SH3 we have little else to work with. I also hate if nothing shows up on the map... That's why DW's map system seems perfect.

[Fandango]

DW only shows data you entered into the nav map.

Well, don't forget that you can exchange info with the other platforms that are on your side. If on a sub, go to periscope depth and raise your antenna...you will get "LINK" info for free from other platforms on your side showing the position of the ships, subs, helo and planes they are aware of. You don't have to set TRUE ON...just put a surface platform in your area and that's it. But beware, if it gets sunk, your LINK info is gone... :-)

[supersloth]

anyone know if this game uses ai subs/vessels like a wolfpack? i must say that reading this thread has really sparked my interest in this game, never played a modern subsim before.

[goldorak]

anyone know if this game uses ai subs/vessels like a wolfpack? i must say that reading this thread has really sparked my interest in this game, never played a modern subsim before.


Well, in multiplayer you can certainly coordinate various subs (manned by players) to achieve a comon goal.
For example sink a carrier battle group protected by frigate, subs and p-3 (all manned by players).
You can have subs vs subs, subs vs surface ships, airborne units + surface ships vs subs, subs + air units vs surface ships etc, etc, etc....


ps : Dw is not a subsim, its something more general a tactical antisubmarine warfare naval simulation.

[Fandango]

anyone know if this game uses ai subs/vessels like a wolfpack?

Sure it does and the mission editor included in DW is very advanced and you can create whatever scenario you want! Of course, the mission editor will take time to master but there are people who have experience in that... :up:

In a mission I played, there was a US aircarrier convoy escorted by FFG, ORION and SUBs which have to reach a certain point. On the way to that point, akulas and kilos lurked in the dark... :ping:

[LuftWolf]

Not only does the sim contain a sophisticated AI system for all submarine, surface, and airplatforms, but also, because the system is more or less completely contained in decompiled text file Doctrines, it is completely moddable! :yep: :up: :D

Also, because of the power of the mission editor, mission designers are left completely free to set autonomous or scripted behavior for computer controlled platforms. Between the mission editor and the doctrine files, there is virtually no limit to the degree of interaction that can be programmed for AI platforms to interact with each other and human controlled platforms in the battlespace . :rock: :arrgh!:

[Fandango]

And LuftWolf is one of those who has provied us with realism mods for DW...that is, not add-ons to the graphic or anything, just mods to make the sim even more realistic in terms of platforms behaviour, sensors' performances, etc. And patch 1.03 has a new sonar algorithm...Luft, correct me if I'm wrong on this...

[LuftWolf]

The retail version of the game and 1.03 patch completely reconfigures the sound propagation model... its easily the most complete and realistic sonar model available to civilian buyers in any piece of software other than specialized sonar modelling software for applications in science and industry. :rock:

Not to mention that it's a damn good game... :up:

[drEaPer]

Yeah, now we just need all the classified data for LW to implement in DW :p

[Nico71]

Okay guys, you have convinced me! Got DW and I've started practicing, reading, read a bit more, practice, .....ad infinitum! :doh: It seems that I'm developing a certain faible for sub-hunting!

[drEaPer]

Glad you like it! If you use ICQ or MSN, feel free to add me and we can have some muliplayer matches. :)

[Nico71]

Great! However, I don't have ICQ or MSN, but I am interested in MP.

Well, regarding DW, the only thing that I have learned so far is that I have still much to learn! ;)

[Smaragdadler]

@Nico71: I see you are from Germany, da könnte das hier von Nutzen sein: http://space-port.de/dw/index.html

And there is of course my Landlubber-Guide, die bekommst du hier:
www.subguru.com

Übung macht den Meister. :know:

[Nico71]

Cool! Die Site kannte ich noch gar nicht! Oh Mann, so viel zu lesen..... :doh:

[Solidsnake2234]

To be honest. Dangerous Waters was very hard to control for me, especially weapons. So yeah...it pretty much ripped my head off...or really my computer's hard drive, after I was sank out of nowhere for the 200th time XD

[MoN]

5 years 8 months 4 weeks 0 days 3 hours and 51 minutes

or

onehundredeightyonemilliontwohundredfiftyfivethous andsixhundredfortyone seconds

epic necro

[green_abobo]

as i said in another thread, DW makes SH4 (no disrespect) play like a game of battleship...

"E4...."

"miss..." :hmmm:

although it is difficult (and theres 500 some pages of game manual text to absorb; in which they tell you the what, but not the why, as someone else so eloquently put it) the feeling you get from sinking your first victom, all on your own, is far more gratifying than any other naval simulation game i have ever played.

mostly because it is harder than the average game to stalk and succesfully attack than others like it.

from what i gather, it uses a similar engine as 688 hunter/killer and sub commander games (dont quote me on that) but it also uses the same engine as the darpa, free to download, unmanned vessel naval simulator.

https://actuv.darpa.mil/

...that will at least give you a heads up on how it functions. theres also a DW demo available...

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/scs-dangerous-waters-demo/

theres also the tutorial videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDnFoGw2HXA

good luck out there. help is here when you need it.

[Sailor Steve]

5 years 8 months 4 weeks 0 days 3 hours and 51 minutes

or

onehundredeightyonemilliontwohundredfiftyfivethous andsixhundredfortyone seconds

epic necro
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/resurrection-1.jpg