How many Torpedos to sink t2 or other larger ship?

[H2OsKT]

Last night I had to restart my career after having collided with a destroyer in heavy fog. (The Destroyer won, all hands lost.) :dead:

I am back in the IIb boat with five fish. I went into Hartlepool, located a T2 tanker among other goodies. I already took out two coastal merchants on the way to this port, so all I had was three torps. I lined myself up in the harbor at about 400 meters, targeted midship and fired one torp. A few seconds later, I confirmed the hit, no fire or big explosion though. I re-aimed and fired number two towards the engine room. Dud torpedo, bounced off and detinated under the ship. I then crossed my fingers and fired tube three, my last torp at the same location and changed firing pistol to magnetic. Detonated on impact and I saw a nice little fire through the scope. I then waited and watched the boat liste to one side, but would not sink. :( I was so mad I lost my experienced crew earlier I decided to risk surfacing in port and unloaded all of my AA rounds on the tanker from about 200 meters. I saw lots of nice little fires, but nothing else. After a few minutes I had a trawler aproaching and another unknown warship steaming in. Went back below the surface and crept away to base with only 2 coastal merchants to brag about.

How many torps do the respective ships require to destroy? If more than one torp is needed, where should they be aimed for maximum success? Thank you for the responses in advance. :hmm:

[davidaspy]

well im not an expert but most ships can be taken out in one shot if you get it right and have some luck. The best way ive found is in calm waters to set the torpedo depth 0.5 meters below the hull depth and aim dead centre of the ship. Another way is to wait until you can aim at the fuel bukers and go for them.

Strangly C2 and T2 seem to be a lot harder to bring down in 1 than C3s and T3s which are pretty much guarenteed if you get the fuel bunkers

[Sebbe]

I've noticed that ships in harbor are harder to destroy then in full sea. I've sneaked into many harbors myself and always noticed the same thing, even when aiming for the right spots like fuel tanks (wich is very easy when there lying still).
I guess that the ships in harbor mostly don't carry fuel... :-?

[HMCS]

Too bad that there isn't a way to mod the cargo types.

e.g:

Cargo = Munitions. A floating bomb. If you hit her from less than 500 m you risk damaging your boat (if on the surface) - doubt me? Read up on the great Halifax explosion

Cargo = General stores. No bonus either way.

Iron Ore = Heavy, slight addition to damage, due to weight.

Cargo = lumber. Acts like a floatation device. Several eels needed to sink these.

Avgas = Floating bomb, but not as lethal as munitions. Plenty of fire on the surface, and will light up the area around it.

Oil or diesel fuel = less combustible, but will burn longer on the surface.

[codmander]

lots harder to sink em with manual tdc than that stupid auto lock n shoot ive put as many as 3 torps into ships before they reluctenly went down :arrgh!:

[Wijbrandus]

Could it be because they are in such shallow water that they simply rest on the bottom and can't sink any farther?

~R

[Hudsonhawk]

2 Fish in her and she didn't go down is "Tough Luck" :yep: ....but i feel it's pretty Real.......Most Captains in the early part of the War suffered the same feelings you did lastnight..... :know: ........It's what makes this Game GREAT!!!!! Not knowing if you sunk it or NOT!!! :dead:


Maybe you should have RAMMED IT.... :-j :rotfl:

[Rhodes]

I'm experiment such felling's... I'm in my new career in November of 1940 and the atacks to convoys are great but I can only score 2 ship's sunk. I try the "one torpedo, on ship" but its hard to point to the fuel deposit and hit.
And my magnetic torpedos explodes in the middle of the "jorney",it's very frusttating.

[Curval]

In my experience T2s have become the tootsie roll centre of a tootsie pop.

<picture an owl licking a tootsie pop>

One....

Two...

Three...

<"crunch">

Answer: Three

[PatAWilson]

I'm with Curval - the right answer is three. No speculation, no wishy washy "depends on the situation", none of that, just "three" :).

More seriously, three seems to be my magic number. I am still new to this game but when i hear comments like "aim for this that or the other part of the ship" I am left scratching my head. I play at 100% realism, enter the data, and hope like hell that I actually hit something. My hit rate is about 50%. How I would actually go about aiming for a specific part of a moving target is utterly beyond me.

One thing that I should probably be doing more of is setting the running depth a bit lower for some of the bigger targets to go for a back-breaker.

[Ducimus]

Impact pistols against the side.... 2 if your lucky, more commonly 3.

Magnetic takes 2 torpedo's if you hit him right. (granted its more by luck)


If you use magnetic and hit him as thus:

Bow...............Midship.................Stern
.........................x..............x......... ....

But its not a sure thing, but the odds are in your favor.


Direclty under the midships and closer to the engine compartment seem to be good hits. If you miss and blow his screw out from under him so much the better, hes dead in the water, take him out at your leisure. Any torpedo hit forward of midships tends to just be a wasted shot.

[Wijbrandus]

If you can line up for the "perfect" shot to get the little target boxes, you can do it with one fish to the fuel bunker. I've had a lot of luck this way.

If you can't get the perfect shot lineup (more commonly), then I just count on using up a lot of fish.

I tried the one torpedo, wait a few hours method to see if it just sinks really slow, but I've had C3's with the rear deck submerged that would not go down 24 hours later. I really really hate that. The only good thing about having them in that condition is that you can now get the 90 degree fuel bunker shot a lot easier.

Unfortunately, the destroyers and aircraft that show up five minutes after a torpedo hit make that a little difficult...

[Der Teddy Bar]

The C2 has 450 hit points. A torpedo has a maximum of 180 hit points (minimum is 120)

400/180 = 2.3 torpedoes
400/150 = 2.6 torpedoes
400/120 = 3.4 torpedoes

As you can see, The C2 will almost always go down with 3 torpedoes regardless of where you hit it.

This is the reason why you can hit a ship almost anywhere, such as only on the pointy end and it will sink after 20 odd shots.

400 HP ships...
Liberty Cargo - ll
Victory Cargo - vv
C2 Cargo - kls
C3 Cargo - nkc3
Small Tanker - otsf
T2 Tanker - otmst2
T3 Tanker - otms
Troop Transport - tr
Landing Ship Tank - lst
Passenger Liner - ppl
Auxiliary Cruiser - NAXC - BrAuxCruiser
Commerce Raider - NAMC - GeAuxCruiser

The SimHQ Tonnage War mod will address this issue and for the most part the instant 'Enemy Ship Sunk' messages.

[Der Teddy Bar]

If you can line up for the "perfect" shot to get the little target boxes, you can do it with one fish to the fuel bunker. I've had a lot of luck this way.

If you can't get the perfect shot lineup (more commonly), then I just count on using up a lot of fish.

I tried the one torpedo, wait a few hours method to see if it just sinks really slow, but I've had C3's with the rear deck submerged that would not go down 24 hours later. I really really hate that. The only good thing about having them in that condition is that you can now get the 90 degree fuel bunker shot a lot easier.

Unfortunately, the destroyers and aircraft that show up five minutes after a torpedo hit make that a little difficult...
If you are using Auto TDC please read my comments regarding the 'magic bullet' effect associated with this function.

Currently a ship will not sink if it has not sunk with 5-10 minutes. Again, the SimHQ Tonnage War mod will address this.

I have just started in game testing, the first ship I came across was a C2. The first 2 torpedoes hit the bow and around the 2nd & 3rd hold. The ship slowly settled by the bow and to port, but did not sink. After waiting ½ an hour the next torpedo hit around the engine room at 15.23. The ship came to a stop and rolled further to port. The C2 sank finally sank fully beneath the surface ½ an hour later at 15.55, and this is the time the NA call it sunk.

I have had ships take 90 minutes to be sunk after being hit and with no furhter intervention.

[ReM]

I've noticed that ships in harbor are harder to destroy then in full sea. I've sneaked into many harbors myself and always noticed the same thing, even when aiming for the right spots like fuel tanks (wich is very easy when there lying still).
I guess that the ships in harbor mostly don't carry fuel... :-?

I have to agree on this one.......

What works for me:

Aim for the sweet spot just in front of the funnels and; I'd say a 60-70 % chance to sink a T2/T3/C2/C3 with only one eel.
I try to get close to the target and then fire one, when it is about 15 degrees left or right from a 90 degree shot....If the first torp doesn't finish him off, I still have enough time to fire a second and a maybe even a third eel.. And yes, there is always the odd ship that doesn't go down after a couple of nicely placed hits! Those are costly victims....

[Wijbrandus]

If you are using Auto TDC please read my comments regarding the 'magic bullet' effect associated with this function.

DTB, where would these comments be?

[Krieg-Schwein]

It really depends on what kind of cargo the Ship is carrying!
A T2 or T3 could be carrying Fuel, Ammo, or Freight, While the C3, C2 could have 2 types of cargo internal & External. Internal there is Fuel, Ammo, or Freight and External there is Oil Fuel, Ammo crates, Ammo Containers, Freight crates Aircraft, Trucks, Tanks, and Trap containers!
If you find one with ammo Then you'll get it with one shot NP, but Freight's might take an fish or 3, In the Mission editor you can set a Passenger Liner to carry Ammo & it only takes 1 torpedo to blow it up and every ship within 600 M of it, Makes a real real nice Explosion to watch!!! :arrgh!:

[Gizzmoe]

If you are using Auto TDC please read my comments regarding the 'magic bullet' effect associated with this function.

DTB, where would these comments be?

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=45119

[U-214]

T2 and T3 are the easisest to sink.
For T2 : Magnetic at 10,5m to hit between the middle and the bow.They usually explode and cut in 2.

For T3,same thing 11,7m.

They are the only 2 ships,that to my knowledge prefer to get his near the bow rather than near the engine.

[Wijbrandus]

If you are using Auto TDC please read my comments regarding the 'magic bullet' effect associated with this function.

DTB, where would these comments be?

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=45119

Ok, now I understand what he meant. Thank you for the link.

Seems to me if you can work yourself into position to get the perfect shot, you deserve a "magic bullet". Esp since the ocean always seems to be rough, and you combine a bouncing target with dud torpedoes.

Well, that's the advantage of mods. Some people can make it as real as they want it to be, and some can make it an afternoon's entertainment.

[Saturn5]

Last night I was able to kill one C3 with a single shot. With my last shot.

I was at 90 degree with the target, all engines stopped at PD. The target was between 900 - 1100 meter away. Wind was 4 m/s, it was night the target was a lone merchant.

First I shot the eel at 10,5m with magnetic pistol at perfect angle. I was able to see the damage zones in the recognition book. It went well and hit the target. But the ship survived and continued. As it was my last eel (did not have any ammo left for the gun and the flak) I watched the wounded ship move away.

Then I reloaded my game and shot the same eel to the fuel depot. I have picked the fuel depot from the damage zones on the book. This time the ship went down with a big bang.

So I believe it is possible to sink bigger ships with one shot. But you must be on the right position and you must have a good weather no DD's fooling around, no zigzagging target etc.

[Kapitän Cremer]

Last night I was able to sink 5 C2 with just as many torpedoes on my first carrer out of Wilhelmshaven in my Type 2a.

All the times I was aiming at 2 meters depth, set to impact while aiming just under the bridge.

4 out of 5 times the ship was shaken by a massive explosion and broke in half. The last ship didn't break in half but sustained a massive secondary explosion and crept beneeth the wawes in just 10 minutes....

Not sure yet, but seems to me that we finally have founded a workable solution to the troublesome damage model of the C2... :up:

[PatAWilson]

Can people post realism levels used? I play at 100% and I cannot realistically aim for a specific spot. Hell, I can't hit anything at over 1500 meters period unless its standing still.

Interestingly enough my results feel pretty good. I am in late 1940 and I am still the top U-boat ace, just slightly ahead of Prein (Silent Otto is catching up fast). I manage to hit with about 40 - 60% of my shots and I consistently come back with 12,000 - 20,000 tons. However, I generally hit because I get into good firing position (Nice angle, less than 1000 yards, target unaware). If I could shoot worth a damn I would be getting closer to 80%.

[U-214]

Can people post realism levels used? I play at 100% and I cannot realistically aim for a specific spot. Hell, I can't hit anything at over 1500 meters period unless its standing still.

Hi.I play with manual TDC 72%.I use my WO for an initial speed estimation when the target is on the horizon and keep that value.When the ship comes to firing range,i put range and AOB manually with an eye calculation of the angle.Like you,i can't hit specific spot in that way,but i can almost always hit a T2 or T3 between the middle and the bow and that 90% of the times means one hit-one kill.

I can usually hit anything from 2000m.Big ships from further if at good angle too.

[Hartmann]

I use manual tdc and i can´t choose the exact impact point. i feel afortunate if the torpedo hit the target and don´t miss. :|\

usually i need two torpedos for sink a c2. with one torpedo it stops in the sea and after i can shoot another with accuracy.
sometimes it blew in pieces or broke in two :arrgh!:

[Der Teddy Bar]

I have a 99% hit rate. I do however ensure that I am in position, i.e. between 500 & 800 metres. I rarely fire at a distance beyond this. I also try and play within the spirit of the game, in that I don't attack on the surface during the day or suddenly surface next to the ship after having initially hit it. Nor do I wait at 0 speed hovering.

Anyway, this is about how to hit a specific spot on the ship, deliberately.

The speed is the critical part, I don't use the WO, I map it out on the map and use Wazoos Nonograph Mod to be able to make quick and very precise speed estimates.

Once speed has been mastered, the next critical part is the AOB, Angle on the Bow. Which is in reverse, in that it is the angle taken from the ships direction back to your position. The secret to be able to make effectibe AOB calculations is to use the bridge. The bridge is the easiest part of the ship to be able to 'square' the ship up.

Though range is not a critical component after you have determined the ships speed, obviously it is needed to be close enough and set up a good shot. The cavet here, as Trav_R pointed out to me, is that the distance is used by the TDC when it calcs the settings taking into consideration the initial straight run and turn to the required angle. As far as this distance is concerned, within hundreds of metres is close enough.

Once you have all of this set out, using 100% manual as I have previously mentioned, you preset your aiming point. That is, you aim for a point ahead of the ship, and input the AOB (after practice you can quit easily pre-determine what the AOB will be when the ship arrives) and the relative bearing. Then you are free to relax and wait.

As the part of the ship that you want to hit passes the cross hairs you fire. Note I did not use a torpedo spread.

It is that simple to aim and hit a specific part of the ship. Of course this is not pin point precise and a hit within metres of the targeted is considered to be a job well done.

[dbf574]

Ahoy mates, for me I have found that the C2s and C3s are the easiest for the one-shot kills (aim for the area between the stack and the flag... splits 'em all the time) :yep: , now as for the T2s and T3s... I'm still trying to figure that one out :damn: :damn: , I was able, once, to destroy a T3 with a single torpedo (T1) but unfortunately it had been dark and I was a little concerned with the Flower Corvette that was bearing down on me to notice where it hit :doh: .

[Fishmachine]

Now as for the T2s and T3s... I'm still trying to figure that one out :damn: :damn: , I was able, once, to destroy a T3 with a single torpedo (T1) but unfortunately it had been dark and I was a little concerned with the Flower Corvette that was bearing down on me to notice where it hit :doh: .

As for T3 - single, underkeel torpedo aimed halfway between central structure and the bow breaks it 90% of the time. That's a single torpedo solution. Another way to sink most of large ships instantly is 2-torpedo, 0.5 degree spread angle, underkeel salvo, aimed directly under midships. There are very low chances, that any ship will survive that.

[Kapitan]

next time give me a ring and il let you borrow one of my 53-65K torpedos i load out on my akula im pretty sure you would blow anything out of the water with that bar maybe a carrier or battle ship :up:

[HMCS]

C2's sink like a rock when you fix your aiming point for the ensign staff, in front of the funnel and just abaft of the leading edge of the superstructure.

[Hondo314]

Hi.I play with manual TDC 72%.I use my WO for an initial speed estimation when the target is on the horizon and keep that value.When the ship comes to firing range,i put range and AOB manually with an eye calculation of the angle.Like you,i can't hit specific spot in that way,but i can almost always hit a T2 or T3 between the middle and the bow and that 90% of the times means one hit-one kill.

I can usually hit anything from 2000m.Big ships from further if at good angle too.

Can you provide a more precise hit location than "between bow and center" for a 10.5 m magnetic detonation?

I have had difficulty sinking tankers in port in my IID with one eel. I have had the best luck as follows. Firing one eel at 10 m (1/2 m below keel) under the aft edge of the forward superstructure (forward of midships) breaks the back 30% of the time. The 1/2 m is important b/c with 1 m below keel depth, the back doesn't break as often (I didn't finish the calculation once I saw the probability was less than 30%:know:). If the back doesn't break, a second eel set to impact hitting the engine room increases the probability of sinking by 30% (60% probability with 2 fish).

I was hoping a single eel on impact to the engine room would be sufficient in deeper water, and I am in the middle of attacking a convoy just departing Southend. Even in deep water , one eel to the engine room with impact pistol complete with secondary explosions still didn't sink a T2. It was dead in the water and I finished it with a second fish (no deck gun on my IID) at 10 m and magnetic pistol under the forward half of the forward superstructure.

You mentioned a 90% sink probability for T2s with one fish at 1 m below keel depth, but I can't duplicate those results. I don't know how much GWX, convoy mods, or ship model mods may be affecting the results. I'm using 1.4b patched vanilla right now before switching to GWX so I can appreciate the difference.

Any additional information to improve my efficiency before I graduate into a VIIC would be helpful. Please include torp depth, location of detonation (as accurately as possible, but tough to see when evading escorts), and mods. :know:

[Dietrich]

Can you provide a more precise hit location than "between bow and center" for a 10.5 m magnetic detonation?

I'm using 1.4b patched vanilla right now ...

The following might help... these are the ship recognition charts, which show the details, images and critical-hit areas for every ship in SH3 1.4b. The files are PDF files, approx 1.1 Mbytes each.


http://www.3rdflotilla.org/resources/sh3_schiffskarte.pdf (German version)
http://www.3rdflotilla.org/resources/sh3_shipchart.pdf (English version)


Areas on the ship are colour coded as follows: green = propulsion, magenta = ammunition, orange = fuel, yellow = engine, blue = keel. The next version of these charts (currently under development) will have "ideal" impact-trigger locations. I'll post to subsim.com when they are ready.

If doing a magnetic shot, I set the depth to 1 metre below the keel in calm weather, 1.5 metres in moderate seas. In rough seas I only use the impact trigger. In terms of aiming, I tend to aim between the fuel-bunker and engine. If I get a perfect hit, it will sink. If I miss slightly in either direction, it results in a critical hit on one of those areas and the ship will go down (or will be crippled).

I generally play at "Hard" for multi-player games and "100%" for single player games. I get similar results in each, as far as a ship sinking for a hit in a given area.

I hope that helps.

[Hondo314]

The next version of these charts (currently under development) will have "ideal" impact-trigger locations. I'll post to subsim.com when they are ready.

If doing a magnetic shot, I set the depth to 1 metre below the keel in calm weather, 1.5 metres in moderate seas. In rough seas I only use the impact trigger. In terms of aiming, I tend to aim between the fuel-bunker and engine. If I get a perfect hit, it will sink. If I miss slightly in either direction, it results in a critical hit on one of those areas and the ship will go down (or will be crippled).

I generally play at "Hard" for multi-player games and "100%" for single player games. I get similar results in each, as far as a ship sinking for a hit in a given area.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for the response. Haven't received much until now. I'm interested in seeing the "ideal" charts. I've been using the guide to ship weak spots that was on the old community manual site before it went down, and had reasonably good luck with all the merchants except tankers. When you talk about hitting between the fuel bunker and the engine room, do you find that shot is more successful with impact or magnetic detonation, and does depth have much influence?

Regarding realism settings, do we have reason to believe that realism settings affect where the weak spots are? Other than "realistic sinking time" I haven't read anything that suggests realism settings would affect sinkings. If someone has modded the ship models, that would be another story.

[canimodo]

I take c3´s out 85% of the times with 1 torp....

depth = 2 meters, impact, right below the captains deck.. it breaks in 2

i was able to take out c2s with the same config, same spot, but i would work lets say 35-40%.

[Dietrich]

When you talk about hitting between the fuel bunker and the engine room, do you find that shot is more successful with impact or magnetic detonation, and does depth have much influence? I generally use an impact shot, setting the depth according to the ship I'm trying to hit (e.g. C3 = 3m, Small Freighter = 4m, etc.). If an impact shot is not going to work because the angle is bad, I ask myself "should I really be taking this shot?" and the answer is often "no".

Additionally, if I'm firing into a convoy and am interleaving the targets, an impact shot is likely to detonate against anything it hits, thus a miss can become a hit on something else.

The exception to using impact depth is when I am deliberately trying to avoid hitting a smaller ship in front. For example, in one of our missions, we had a T2-Tanker in a port, with various tugs and auxiliary craft moored beside it. I used a magnetic shot, 1m under the keel of the T2, thus completely clearing the lesser craft.

The other exception is when using acoustic torpedoes against an escort. Again, 1 to 1.5m under the keel of the intended target.

Depth has a fairly significant influence. You need to get it right. Furthermore, if the ship is damaged, don't forget to adjust accordingly. And even if the ship looks like it hasn't sunk too much, bear in mind that the ship is 50, 100 or 150 metres long, so your eye is tricked into thinking it's only dropped a metre in the water. Chances are it's more like 3 or 4 metres -- especially on the larger ships.

[Stoli]

GWX - 94% Realism.

On ANY ship, large or small - I'm 90 degree AOB and less than 1000m. Anything other than those condtions, I'm wasting a fish (Bdu counts the fish). I send one torp. at the stern and wait for the vessel to flood out. While i'm waiting - I reload the tube and manage/rest my crew. So far the most I've had to shadow a wounded vessel has a couple of hours.

On convoys, I pick two good targets and 2 fish salvo each with magnetic, 1m under hull, 2 degree spreads, center shoot. Then I do the wiggle-waggle and spin it all around, that's what it's all about, yahh. Shadow wait for flooding.

This method works for my play style because 1. I'm patient and enjoy watching them slowly flood out and 2. I hate motoring back to port so I try to maximize my fish usage at all costs.

[robj250]

How many torps do the respective ships require to destroy? If more than one torp is needed, where should they be aimed for maximum success? Thank you for the responses in advance. :hmm:

Using magnetic pistel and .5 metres deeper than the draft of the T2, T3 tankers, C2 and C3 Cargo, and almost every destroyer that came after me.

In waters where the wind factor was 15 m/s, the above still applied. For example, a T2 Tanker's draft is 9.5 so I would set my torpedo depth at 10; for a T3, the draft is 10.7, so I would set my depth at 11.2. I just finished attacking a convoy under those conditions - winds 15 m/s and rough water.

Rob