Great, MY taxes at work!

[werauchimmer]

I accept that I have to pay taxes. I even accept that they are sometimes spent for things that are not of any immediate concern to me or my country. But *why* the f___k do we have to supply Isreal with submarines and pick up the tab (or at least part of it)? Thats soooo insane! After the reunification we sold military hardware to Turkey, for 1 German Mark / Tank (Thats 50Eurocent). No we give away subs to isreal. Anybody else in for a free lunch? Stand in line, its my taxes...

What am I babbling about, you ask? Check the subsim portal newsitems...

( http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/647321.html )

[Polak]

That's just FUBAR :nope:
We Poles also got a nice discount on some old tanks and airplanes
from you Germans... I must say that I symphatize with you...

[retired1212]

Stand the azzhole politicians in the line and shoot them on their genitals :yep: :rock:
If I'll start to write about the welfare system related to unemployment then it would take pages.

Just a pray even for the worst enemies: Nobody shall be unemployed.

[XabbaRus]

Is that anything to do with Germany's war guilt?

That is FUBAR, surely the Israelis can afford to pay at least half if not full cost?

Syaing that I'd like to know how much th eMoD is getting for the Type 23s we have sold to Chile.

[joea]

My comment: :nope:

Oombongo: love your sig, guess I am retarded (though I never "won" an argument here). :88) :up: :rotfl:

[Hellcat]

Hell were'nt those tanks up for Canada to buy as well? At this moment I don't think we have any MTB's in service :roll:

[Torpedo Fodder]

Hell were'nt those tanks up for Canada to buy as well? At this moment I don't think we have any MTB's in service :roll:

Yeah, We mothballed our Leopard 1 fleet recently (not long after they had recieved a major upgrade I might add) and they'll be replaced by the deathtrap called the Stryker MGS, a vehicle which cannot fire over it's side without tipping over, cannot fire within 450m of exposed infantry due to the 200db sound blast created by it's muzzle brake, and is already so overweight that it's chassis will not be able to support the necessary appliqe armor to survive a hit from an RPG-7. It's excessive weight will alos severly limit it's offroad mobility.

Additionally, it will not be transportable by our C-130s as originally intended (better transportability was one of the reasons the DND wanted them in the first place), which means we'll have to use the same platforms to transport the MGS overseas (ships and rented An-124s) that we would have to use to transport the Leopards :roll:

[U-552Erich-Topp]

:) Best part is with the Canadians, is that we bought some british subs recently. One of those subs caught fire on the way from britan back here to Canada. One of the sailors died as a result of the sub being in poor shape. The subs we bought from britan were direct decendants of the German U-boats. This shows you the technology that we bought. :down: :down: :down:

[Torpedo Fodder]

The subs we bought from britan were direct decendants of the German U-boats. This shows you the technology that we bought. :down: :down: :down:

:-?

The only way they're "direct descendants" of German U-baots that I'm aware is that they're diesel-electric powered. The subs could not be considered old or outdated when we first decided to buy them, since they were comissionned into Royal Navy service from 1990-1992, and the boats were state of the art at the time; they're basically diesel versions of the Trafalgar SSNs, and were put into mothballs by the Royal Navy in 1993 because they wanted an all-nuclear sub force, not because of any problems with the boats. Now the trouble is, Chretien's own cabinet approved the deal in 1995, but Cretin himself twiddled his thumbs for 3 years before finally approving it, all the while the boats rotted without maintenenence at peirside and were canabalized for spare parts by the Royal Navy. Had we acted on the deal as soon as it was approved, we would have saved ourselves a boatload of trouble with those subs. Still, I would have much preferred we had gotten some new boats that had AIP and had ice-hardened hulls and sails, given part of our Navy's mission is to protect our sovereignty in the Arctic.

Still, they're a far sight better than the ancient "O-boats" they're replacing.

[Hellcat]

Well I can't see the point in removing our heavy units (MTB's) and replacing them with unproven tech...

Concerning the "Upholder" subs, I'm tired (very tired) of the criticism thrown their way. On paper they are a forminable design, when the refits are complete we will certainly have a much more capable sub force than what we had with the O-boats. Unless there is/was a better alternative avalible I can see no issues with the purchase once the final bugs are feretted out. Yes they were not in sound condition at time of sale BUT should it not be up to both the customer and the seller to essure that the product is ready to go?

What else could Canada do? we needed subs, we bought 'em cheap, we did'nt safety them properly, we'll pay for that mistake in the form of negitive public opinion for years to come. (can anyone remember, say the helicopter fiasco?)

Prehaps I'm going a bit strong at this point but everytime I hear someone bad mouth the "Victoria's" I just don't know what to tell them. To top that they usually say (from all the movies they've seen) that we should have nuke boats.... :roll: Like we built or have any experience in that area....

[badhat17]

Syaing that I'd like to know how much th eMoD is getting for the Type 23s we have sold to Chile.


Total cost for Chile on the T23 deal is 135 million £, however BAE will get 134 million of that for preparing them for sale so the return as far as the UK taxpayer is concerned will be One million pounds.

[The Avon Lady]

Anybody else in for a free lunch?
Kosher? Sure! :rotfl:

More subs! Woohoo!

Seriously, I have no idea why or how Germany agreed to these terms. :shifty:

[retired1212]

My comment: :nope:

Oombongo: love your sig, guess I am retarded (though I never "won" an argument here). :88) :up: :rotfl:

Me too. I stay away from that race :rotfl:

[Skybird]

Actually German state pays a third of the total price, they said yesterday. It is idiotic, sure. It is also idiotic to sell these subs at all. I can only imagine it is to ensure the jobs in the dock by securing orders that way. But Israel has asked, no, it has DEMANDED to be given these boats for a long time, so the job-argument probably does not count. If any brimless a$$h..e of politician thinks it must be done because of some war guilt, I would like to ask him why it is my generation's duty to feel guilty for things that were comitted before we (and to a growing degree: our parents) were even born.

But without doubt Israel will continue to excuse Europeans time and again of not supporting it enough. Why be satisfied with what you get - if you can get more.

The whole Uboat-deal: :down:

[The Avon Lady]

Support from Europe?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

:nope: :nope: :nope: :nope: :nope: :nope:

[Catfish]

Hello,
the last three Dolphin class U-boats built in Germany were a "present" - two of them were paid by Germany (we had some pangs of conscience because of the Iraq deals, there were some court hearings and trials of industry leaders), and one by the USA.
After this i think two boats were sold to Egypt.
From the new two boats bound for Israel one third is paid by Germany (and the rest by Israel i suppose ?).
There is some rumour about this: Germany's finances are a mess, the boats are delivered to a "problematic" region, the propulsion system will have the type 212 AIP design (technology transfer) and some of the torpedo tubes have a diametre of 65 cm (allowing the start of missiles carrying nuclear warheads, the built-in liners of 53,3 cm can easily be removed).
As long as shareholder's values are most important we will export all to everyone as long as our industry is satisfied. Not that other nations would not do the same - we are getting more and more international ... globalism ... bla ;) .
Greetings,
Catfish

[Kapitan]

if i paid tax id rather it go to something good like the transport system or education and health care or something that everyone could benifit from

i hate to see illigal immagrents walking around as if they own the place not a care in the world and they dont care about any person that is a citizen of my country and spounge off the state then moan when they get beaten up for it

if i had my way every illigal immigrent would be booted from the UK regardless of situation cause simply i do not care for them and the ones that do come id support for 8 months till they could find a job and pay taxes and earn thier citizen ship cause at the moment britian just hands it to them on a plate

[XabbaRus]

:roll:

[Kapitan]

what ????

[Kapitan]

what ????

[XabbaRus]

Quite a generalisation Kapitain,

I suggest you look closer to home. I think you'll find that lazy arse Brits who cost more in terms of benefits than the illegal immigrants or asylum seakers.

Ironic thing is these immigrants do the jobs that brits are too stuckup to do, and get expolited as a result.

I am not denying that there are a good few who shouldn't be deported but most would like to work.

I get more pissed off seeing the single teenage mums getting a nice flat and not having to work. Or a couple I know who's joint income is about £23,000 a year, can afford a horse infact two, have a kid and are living in a council flat. Granted it is a one room flat but that's my point. They can afford to rent a two bedroom place in our town but no, they want to wait for a council house to come up and get that instead. I think I can be a bit [issed off considering until relatively recently I was earning £10,000 a year and paying £350 in rent plus council tax and got bugger all help.

OK rant over....

[Dan D]

Could be presents, because Israel and Germany are celebrating an anniversary this year:
40 years of diplomatic relations: 1965-2005.
No, seriously: I don’t think this has to do with sentiments. It is a businesslike matter.
While Germany has already recovered from the losses of war, the Jewish people have not to that degree.
Without Germany Israel today would be stronger to defend itself. This is not about “compensation”,
Germany backs Israel’s right of self-preservation. Nothing more or less. 2 new fancy u-boats are good for the morale of the Israeli navy.

[Kapitan]

i totaly agree xabbarus i mean i dont work at the moment so i dont pay tax but people i know have said oh il just get pregnant and then everyone can pay for me to live now that is not right

i agreed 100% xabba

[The Avon Lady]

oh il just get pregnant and then everyone can pay for me to live
Where is this Shangrilla? :P

[Oberon]

oh il just get pregnant and then everyone can pay for me to live
Where is this Shangrilla? :P

Peckham :up:





Well...actually, probably most of London, Birmingham, Newcastle, Liverpool, Leeds, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Swansea, Portsmouth, Sheffield....

[kelawi]

The gift/sale is indeed due to business done with Iraq in the past. So Israel gets reliable second strike ability for conscience' sake.

Fortunately, the German government, whose high-ranking members were agonized by their consciences after learning that German companies had helped Iraq to develop chemical weapons, decided to give Israel two submarines, of the same model whose development was scrapped by the General Staff.


Quote is from http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/648294.html on the SUBSIM news portal.

Kelawi

[XabbaRus]

Yea its bollocks.

I guess that will mean France should be giving equipment awy to them too, and Russia, and the UK and America...oops forgot America does pretty much...well you guys do...

[Dan D]

Free t-shirts will be given away with every u-boat purchase!
http://www.shopmetrospy.com/cNcgraphics/Product_183_PrSpare2.jpg

[micky1up]

the same as the uk has to supply france and germany with massive subsidies to the tune of 75bill for france alone i think that the eu stinks to high heven and the sooner the uk is out of it the better

[Kapitan]

NO EU

[werauchimmer]

The gift/sale is indeed due to business done with Iraq in the past. So Israel gets reliable second strike ability for conscience' sake.


I´m sorry, but that is what one source (an Israeli one at that) is saying. Living in this place, I have a few other reasons I suspect may have been more important.

[lesrae]

I get more pissed off seeing the single teenage mums getting a nice flat and not having to work

Agreed 100% Only last week a woman in my local was saying how glad she was her 16 yr old daughter was pregnant, now she can tell the council she's kicking the girl out (she isn't really - it's just part of the game) and they'll have to give her a flat.

Sickening when we work our arses off to pay rent/poll tax etc and scum like this milk the system.

[retired1212]

I get more pissed off seeing the single teenage mums getting a nice flat and not having to work

See the bright side. These patriotic people are trying to increase the population. They are breeding factories :D :-j

[Kapitan]

yeah they might be that but we have to pay more and more each year to keep them and they pay sweet FA

i dont want to have kids untill im at least 27 or older that way i can pay for looking after them rather than the state.

thank god im tax exempt

[Etienne]

Wait wait wait wait...

You keep bitching about people wasting taxpayers' money and getting benefits they shouldn't have...

...but you don't pay taxes.

Makes the kind of sense that is not.

'tienne, payin' a ****load of tax and not getting much back.

[Kapitan]

i acctualy am taking the stand for my dad my father has never had a tax return and is well over due my dad is a horder of recipts and papers he pays alot of tax and gets sod all back

and now i have a small job i too am going to be taxed untill i get into the navy

[Etienne]

Let your dad do his own complaining. I'm sure he's fully capable of that.

[Kapitan]

well he isnt as it goes he isnt exactly the sharpest knife in the draw he knows it.

my dad wouldnt complain because he doesnt understand and im the one who has to break it down and explain it all when we went to get a loan i was the one doing all the talking not my father case it well basicaly went over his head

so i do all the financial work for him

[Kapitan]

put it bluntly the only complaining my dad knows how to do is either shout real loud or do it with his fists as they say like father like son :D