When does Type VII become available in SH3 Commander?

[Trav_R]

I've always sailed with the 1st Flotilla, and normally the type VIIB is avaliable after just a few patrols. Now that I'm using SH3 Commander, I'm in July and it's still not available. I'm pretty sure that SH3 Commander adjusts when the new boats become available to the Flotillas to a more realistic time frame, but I'd like to know when each boat is available to each Flotilla. Is there a file somewhere that I can just look in or what?

[BladeHeart]

Start SH3Cmdr and look at the options that allow you to selct starting date and flotilla. Underneath you will see what boat you will start off with, and where there is a choice more then one will be displayed.

Hope this helps, though I am not sure whether you are refering to upgrades. :)

:lurk:

[The Avon Lady]

From file \SH3 Commander\Cfg\U-boat availability.cfg:
[SUBMARINE1]
902_NbVersion=4
902_Version0=0 ; VIIB
902_Name0=VIIB
902_Month0=6
902_Year0=1941
902_Version1=1 ; VIIC
902_Name1=VIIC
902_Month1=3
902_Year1=1941
902_Version2=2 ; VIIC/41
902_Name2=VIIC/41
902_Month2=6
902_Year2=1944
902_Version3=3 ; VIIC/42
902_Name3=VIIC/42
902_Month3=6
902_Year3=1945
902_DaysSpentInBase=45

903_NbVersion=4
903_Version0=0 ; VIIB
903_Name0=VIIB
903_Month0=9
903_Year0=1939
903_Version1=1 ; VIIC
903_Name1=VIIC
903_Month1=6
903_Year1=1945
903_Version2=2 ; VIIC/41
903_Name2=VIIC/41
903_Month2=6
903_Year2=1945
903_Version3=3 ; VIIC/42
903_Name3=VIIC/42
903_Month3=6
903_Year3=1945
903_DaysSpentInBase=45

904_NbVersion=4
904_Version0=0 ; VIIB
904_Name0=VIIB
904_Month0=9
904_Year0=1939
904_Version1=1 ; VIIC
904_Name1=VIIC
904_Month1=8
904_Year1=1940
904_Version2=2 ; VIIC/41
904_Name2=VIIC/41
904_Month2=6
904_Year2=1944
904_Version3=3 ; VIIC/42
904_Name3=VIIC/42
904_Month3=6
904_Year3=1945
904_DaysSpentInBase=45

[Trav_R]

Okay I'll have to check both of those out. Thanks for the help :yep:

[Trav_R]

Well, I tried just using SHIII Commander first to see when the VII would become available to the 1st Flotilla by choosing the "Set up for a New Career" option and adjusting the starting dates. According to that method, it becomes available January, 1941. December 1940 still says Type IIA. This seems to disagree with the U-boat availability.cfg file, though, which says the Type VIIB becomes available to the 1st Flotilla in June, 1941.

Besides that contradiction, there is another apparent contradiction in the availability file. It says the IXB becomes available to all Flotillas in September, 1939!

[SUBMARINE2]
902_NbVersion=4; 5
902_Version0=0 ; IXB
902_Name0=IXB
902_Month0=9
902_Year0=1939
902_Version1=1 ; IXC
902_Name1=IXC
902_Month1=1
902_Year1=1941
902_Version2=2 ; IXC/40
902_Name2=IXC/40
902_Month2=7
902_Year2=1942
902_Version3=3 ; IXD2
902_Name3=IXD2
902_Month3=6
902_Year3=1942
902_DaysSpentInBase=75

903_NbVersion=4; 5
903_Version0=0 ; IXB
903_Name0=IXB
903_Month0=10
903_Year0=1939
903_Version1=1 ; IXC
903_Name1=IXC
903_Month1=1
903_Year1=1941
903_Version2=2 ; IXC/40
903_Name2=IXC/40
903_Month2=7
903_Year2=1942
903_Version3=3 ; IXD2
903_Name3=IXD2
903_Month3=6
903_Year3=1945
903_DaysSpentInBase=75

904_NbVersion=4; 5
904_Version0=0 ; IXB
904_Name0=IXB
904_Month0=9
904_Year0=1939
904_Version1=1 ; IXC
904_Name1=IXC
904_Month1=1
904_Year1=1941
904_Version2=2 ; IXC/40
904_Name2=IXC/40
904_Month2=7
904_Year2=1942
904_Version3=3 ; IXD2
904_Name3=IXD2
904_Month3=6
904_Year3=1942
904_DaysSpentInBase=75

This confuses me. Anyone know how this file works? Apparently I'm reading it wrong.

[JScones]

You gotta read it in conjunction with Flotilla.cfg. Flotilla.cfg decides your starting sub based on chosen career start year in addition to setting the Flotilla's available subs (ie, you'll see that not all Flotillas get shiny new IXBs for Christmas). Hopefully, by looking at Flotilla.cfg you'll understand the mechanics of the two files and how they work together (it should be pointed out that "U-boat availability.cfg" replicates the same sections in Basic.cfg, but with different settings for each Flotilla).

Please note that this method will change in the next release of SH3Cmdr. Effectively, it will work the other way around - players will get to choose their starting sub from any that are available to the Flotilla up to the desired career starting date. For example, if you want to start a career in the 2nd Flotilla in May 1943, you will be able to choose a starting sub from a choice of VIIB, IXB, IXC or IXC/40, with no cost to renown, and not be stuck with the default IXC that you get now.

But that's the next release...Currently, you start with what's outlined in Flotilla.cfg. You can then upgrade in SH3 based on the availability dates.

[Trav_R]

Okay, I can see now that Flotilla.cfg determines the starting subs for the different Flotillas, but I'm still a little confused about why the U-boat Availability.cfg says that the IXB becomes available to all Flotillas in September, 1939. It also says that the VIIC is available to the 1st Flotilla 3 months before the VIIB. It also says the VIIC/42 doesn't become available to any Flotilla until June 1945, effectively taking it out of the game.

One more thing, if I'm reading this file correctly, the 1st Flotilla is still sailing the Type IIA until March 1941, when it gets the Type VIIC (3 months before the VIIB becomes available to it, by the way.) Is that the way it really was for the 1st Flotilla? They didn't bother to upgrade to a fleet submarine until pretty much half the "Happy Days" were over?

I apparently am reading this file wrong, or there is something I don't understand about it.

[JScones]

Okay, I can see now that Flotilla.cfg determines the starting subs for the different Flotillas, but I'm still a little confused about why the U-boat Availability.cfg says that the IXB becomes available to all Flotillas in September, 1939.
It doesn't. As I mentioned above, Flotilla.cfg determines which subs each Flotilla gets. Basic.cfg (viz U-boat availability.cfg) is simply a look up list. Thus, IXB values are ignored for Flotillas that don't have the IXB set as an available sub.

Look at the:

NbUboats0=2
Uboat0_0=0
Uboat0_1=1

values under each Flotilla entry - only Flotillas that have a line "Uboat*_*=2" get the Type IX.

It also says that the VIIC is available to the 1st Flotilla 3 months before the VIIB.
Correct. Let's be clear here - the 1st Flotilla had 1 VIIB for every 20 VIIC's. Prior to June 1941, the Flotilla's sole VIIB was a training boat. All other VII's were VIIC's.

I recommend Lawrence Patterson's "First U-boat Flotilla" (Pen and Sword) as a great reference covering the 1st Flotilla. Also, visit uboat.net.

It also says the VIIC/42 doesn't become available to any Flotilla until June 1945, effectively taking it out of the game.
Correct. It never existed - the type was cancelled before any were built.

One more thing, if I'm reading this file correctly, the 1st Flotilla is still sailing the Type IIA until March 1941, when it gets the Type VIIC (3 months before the VIIB becomes available to it, by the way.) Is that the way it really was for the 1st Flotilla? They didn't bother to upgrade to a fleet submarine until pretty much half the "Happy Days" were over?
Correct.

I am not sure what further reassurance I can give you as to the accuracy of the dates. If you are still not convinced, then feel free to (re-)research and use whatever dates you are comfortable with - U-boat availability.cfg can be tailored to your liking. ;)

[Beery]

Okay, I can see now that Flotilla.cfg determines the starting subs for the different Flotillas, but I'm still a little confused about why the U-boat Availability.cfg says that the IXB becomes available to all Flotillas in September, 1939.

Ignore the flotillas that don't get the IXB. Whether they get them or not is controlled by Flotilla.cfg. Those that don't get them don't use the data for that boat. It's just the old default date. I could have changed it to 6/45, but what would be the point, since the game doesn't bother with that line anyway.

It also says that the VIIC is available to the 1st Flotilla 3 months before the VIIB.

That's correct. 1st Flotilla got a Type VIIC before it got a Type VIIB.

It also says the VIIC/42 doesn't become available to any Flotilla until June 1945, effectively taking it out of the game.

If you know of a Type VIIC/42 that was actually built, let me know about it. :) The Kriegsmarine scrapped plans for the Type VIIC/42 well before any were completed, and they decided to put all production facilities into building the Type XXI.

One more thing, if I'm reading this file correctly, the 1st Flotilla is still sailing the Type IIA until March 1941, when it gets the Type VIIC (3 months before the VIIB becomes available to it, by the way.) Is that the way it really was for the 1st Flotilla? They didn't bother to upgrade to a fleet submarine until pretty much half the "Happy Days" were over?

That is really how it was for 1st Flotilla. There's a book called "First U-boat Flotilla" by Lawrence Patterson that lists all U-boats in the flotilla, with dates of entry into the flotilla for each boat. This book was one reference for the info in SH3 Commander.

[Trav_R]

Well, I'm glad I included this line in my post then:

I apparently am reading this file wrong, or there is something I don't understand about it.

I just had the whole thing misunderstood completely, in addition to not knowing about the VIIC/42 and some of the other things that I thought were contradictions. I hope I didn't sound like I was putting down your guys' work or saying anyone was wrong, I was just really confused.

Thanks for straightening me out, and thanks for all the effort you guys put in.