So What Do You Think Happens After You Die?????

[U-552Erich-Topp]

I've noticed a number of threads here with regards to religion.

Question #1: What do you think happens to you after you die?????
Is there another world that you move on to?????.......and if so what is it like??????

Question #2: Do you think the last moments before death are painfull??????

Post your comments and ideas.

[The Avon Lady]

I've noticed a number of threads here with regards to religion.

Question #1: What do you think happens to you after you die?????
Is there another world that you move on to?????.......and if so what is it like??????
Jewish view of afterlife (http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?s=death&f=tqak&offset=1).
Question #2: Do you think the last moments before death are painfull??????
Isn't that dependent on each case of death? :-?

[Gizzmoe]

Question #1: What do you think happens to you after you die?????

I decay 6 feet below the ground. Nothing else will happen.

Question #2: Do you think the last moments before death are painfull??????

Well, that depends on how you die! ;) If I burn to death it will be very painful, if I slowly die of cancer it will be not (tons of painkillers...).

[caspofungin]

i guess we'll all find out eventually. someone's gonna be disappointed, though.

[Gizzmoe]

Jewish view of afterlife (http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?s=death&f=tqak&offset=1).

"the soul is shown two videotapes"??? :lol:

[The Avon Lady]

Jewish view of afterlife (http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?s=death&f=tqak&offset=1).
"the soul is shown two videotapes"??? :lol:
The article is out of date.

It should have said "two DVDs".

[Kapitan]

Q1 i think thats it your finnished no after life once your buried your beried

Q2 only in some circumstancies is it painful car crash plane crash ect..

[P_Funk]

Who can know what happens? I believe that we create these extravagant religions so as to alay our immense fear of death. Especially our modern culture has an extreme fear of the afterlife. We are the first culture to fear death above dishonour. Maybe it was the reality shock from the World Wars or maybe science has created doubt but it seems that faith is a sham amongst many people.

I have no idea what happens after death and choose not to care. I care about this life and I want to live a good decent life and I want to be a good person. We cant hope to be more than that and I think in our ultimate fear of the afterlife we neglect this life and ultimately waste our humanity.

As for pain in death it all depends on circumstances.

[Onkel Neal]

I can't even say what's going to happen tomorrow.... who can say what happens after we die?

[The Avon Lady]

Who can know what happens? I believe that we create these extravagant religions so as to alay our immense fear of death. Especially our modern culture has an extreme fear of the afterlife. We are the first culture to fear death above dishonour. Maybe it was the reality shock from the World Wars or maybe science has created doubt but it seems that faith is a sham amongst many people.

I have no idea what happens after death and choose not to care. I care about this life and I want to live a good decent life and I want to be a good person. We cant hope to be more than that and I think in our ultimate fear of the afterlife we neglect this life and ultimately waste our humanity.
I didn't think I would post again on this thread because I thought it enough to answer questions 1 and 2 in my opinion and be done with it. But your post needs a short response.

To the best of my knowledge, all major religions do not worship death nor have the built themselves around it.

Similar to your cares, most religions concentrate on doing the right things in this world in order to attain a better status - whatever that may mean - in a world after death - whatever that may mean.

Whether you believe in a religion or not is one thing but don't preface your belief's foundations with a definition of religions which essentially isn't correct, neither philosophically nor historically.

[gdogghenrikson]

I can't even say what's going to happen tomorrow.... who can say what happens after we die?


well put :up:

[The Avon Lady]

I can't even say what's going to happen tomorrow.... who can say what happens after we die?
Sad, sad, little man.

Get a Palm Pilot.

[Hitman]

This is an interesting question :up:

Let me begin with a very basic consideration: What are WE? Exactly, what defines you, me, and others who we see daily, and makes them different from the rest, unique, and -what is more important- self conscious?

Well that thing is personality, your own sum of experiences, accumulated during years, influenced by physical items at many times (Hormones, pain, joy), which finally defines your "I" or "ego"

So the first thing we should talk about when considering the existance of something after this life is: What part of me will go into that?

It is basically clear that your body will NOT. That already eliminates a good part of your personality: If you like McDonalds, Bourbon, Beer on friday or other activities related to physical and/or mental diversions, connected to primary instincts (F.e. you like to watch soccer as a modern, civilized & accepted exteriorization of our tribal and competitive instincts), then those all are not going to be present in your personality after you die. They will not because there will no longer be a body to send your consciouness the signals of pleasure those activities provided here in the earth.

So we know already that what would eventually transfer to another dimension is our abstract intelligence, plus the self-consciousness.

But what about a one month child who dies? And what about a mentally handycapped or subnormal person? Are they also to spend eternity in a nearly idiotized status?

All religions have in themselves a form or another of describing life after death. Basically, and letting aside some very primary description (Quran and teh paradise with huries) they accept eternity as a permanent connection of the good and purified souls with God. This shall result in a state of permanent joy, for all eternity, adn equals to paradise: No fear, no heat, no cold, no concern, just basic communion and joy.

That results in a basic status that is equal for all souls, because once our earthly concerns, motivations, joys, pains, etc. are separated from our soul, it just the primary spiritual impulses what is left: Love, peace, spiritual balance.

So, in a word, if you are to believe in a religion and think that there is life after death, then you should know that your destiny is similar to any addict to drugs here at earth: You will gain a permanent idiotized status of joy, mental disabilitation, peace, rest and lose all the characteristics that defined you in this earth, except your self-identity. Put it in another words, you will suffer a brain-wash or mental reset, where only your primary spiritual functions will remain.

How come that? Well, how else would a child or a mentally hadycapped person be able to be equal to you? Note that your very own personality, the one that produces your impulses and determines your rational reactions is just a result of the sum of yoru experiences and education.

A fully different education or experiences (F.e. experiences of hate and pain produce a different personality than those of joy and security) would have produced a very different "You". Only the minimum spiritual impulses are the same, but they have NOTHING to do with your consicousness.

So if christians or jews or muslims are right, when you die you will be like a PC gone through a reformat process: It works the basics and the led is on, but it is unable to do anything but keep his "turned on" status.

Otherwise, and after the two videotapes (Or DVDs) the Avon Lady referred to are played for those who have consciousness (Not for aborted criatures -who have soul- or for vegetal status mentally handycapped, or for too young children or babies), it would be IMPOSSIBLE to reset all to a same status!

That is, unless you give for example a child who dies with just one month of life an artificial experience and life, implanted in his mind (Like in the Matrix film).

I have now a son who is six months old. What is common between me and him? Basically that ability to joy and pain (physically), and not even the ability to joy and pain spiritually. For to have spiritual joy and pain you need INTELLIGENCE, which is simply the ability to use in logical proposals the sum of experience we have had in our lifes.

So what good is to have a life after death if we will not be able to keep our personality, i.e. the very same essence of what we call "I" or "Me"???

What good is to have Hitler's soul burn in hell if his personality will dissappear?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then of course there is the alternative of us simply dissapearing, like what happens when you have an accident and are in a vegetal status.

This is obviously the alternative, and it also provides the end of pain and joy. :up:

There comes the big question: Why should there be a life after death, if ther was no life before birth? :know:

And the second one: Why should ther be a life after birth, if there was no life before it? :know: :know:

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My personal conclussions remain the same: I can see that there is a God through rational evidence, but I deny any chuch the right to interpretate the supposed will of that God.

Religions are a business of earthly power and social control, they are the organized form of intolerance and discrimantion. And their fairy tales about revelations and interpretations of God's will are easily seen as wrong by any open adn intelligent mind. :down:

[The Avon Lady]

You are assuming souls are not individual personalities or if they are, they resemble the age and intellect of the body they are retained in in this world.

Judaism, at least, does not view souls as carbon-copies of each other nor as something that needs its diapers changed at age zero and its teeth replaced at age 99.

I suggest also reading Reincarnation (http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?s=soul&f=tqak&offset=4), from a Jewish point of view, which relates to points you discussed.

[Hitman]

Your reply and your link confirm my theory. :)

If the soul is independent and not carbon-copy of the body (What I said before is exactly that), then "WE" as we know us, will DISSAPPEAR after death, and a part of us that is not the same self-consciousness as we have right now is what would continue.

Thus, when we die we dissappear as we know us right now, and what is left of us will not be able to remember us as we are now, nor identify itself with it. So death is equal to dissapear for us, is similar to your heart being transplanted to another body after you die :88)

Scaring, sin't it? ;) A good reason to reject our right to freedom and dignity, and throw ourselves in the arms of any religion that, thanks to dogma, does not allow us to think and suffer the weight of such problems in our shoulders :know:

[The Avon Lady]

Your reply and your link confirm my theory. :)

If the soul is independent and not carbon-copy of the body (What I said before is exactly that), then "WE" as we know us, will DISSAPPEAR after death, and a part of us that is not the same self-consciousness as we have right now is what would continue.

Thus, when we die we dissappear as we know us right now, and what is left of us will not be able to remember us as we are now, nor identify itself with it. So death is equal to dissapear for us, is similar to your heart being transplanted to another body after you die :88)
Not so! The soul is affected by the deeds of its possesor in this world. As the first article I linked to states:

This is the world of doing, and the "world to come" is where we experience the eternal reality of whatever we've become.

We make forceable imprints on our soul in this world.
Scaring, sin't it? ;) A good reason to reject our right to freedom and dignity, and throw ourselves in the arms of any religion that, thanks to dogma, does not allow us to think and suffer the weight of such problems in our shoulders :know:
I've lost your reasoning here. I simply fail to understand you sequence of thought here.

[Jesper]

The answer is simple, when I die, I die and a little handful of people will cry, but the majority of people will cheer.

As for me I will be burned and placed in an urne next to my mom and dad on in the corner of unamed persons on the graveyard.

I dont belive in resurrection but probaly I will become a little flower, which the graveyard keeper will spay with "roundup"

[gdogghenrikson]

The answer is simple, when I die, I die and a little handful of people will cry, but the majority of people will cheer. :up: :rotfl:

[Onkel Neal]

I can't even say what's going to happen tomorrow.... who can say what happens after we die?
Sad, sad, little man.

Get a Palm Pilot.

Ah, but a Palm Pilot only tells you what you plan to have happen, it won't tell you what will happen.

[The Avon Lady]

I can't even say what's going to happen tomorrow.... who can say what happens after we die?
Sad, sad, little man.

Get a Palm Pilot.
Ah, but a Palm Pilot only tells you what you plan to have happen, it won't tell you what will happen.
That's an optional extra! :P

[gdogghenrikson]

Ah, but a Palm Pilot only tells you what you plan to have happen, it won't tell you what will happen.

good point.

[Jesper]

I only wish that the Avon Lady would marry me before so she could inherit it all :) (or our kids) :D

[The Avon Lady]

I only wish that the Avon Lady would marry me before so she could inherit it all :) (or our kids) :D
I can just picture after we've been married for 80 years and you've passed away.

"Huh! Men! Leave nothing but dust all over the floor." And I'd get the vacuum cleaner and suck up the mess.

[U-552Erich-Topp]

:) I agree with you Neal Stevens about the Palm Pilot. :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

[U-552Erich-Topp]

:) If reincarnation was true then the population of the world would remain constant??????????

[The Avon Lady]

:) If reincarnation was true then the population of the world would remain constant??????????
I fail to see why.

Who said that every soul is reincarnated?

[snowsub]

I'll know what happens after death when someone comes back and tells me :lol:

[The Avon Lady]

I'll know what happens after death when someone comes back and tells me :lol:
:dead: They're here! (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22near+death+experiences%22) :dead:

[Sixpack]

Not sure yet, maybe just maybe I'll convert to Islam shortly before my expected death, indiscriminately kill a bunch of women and children in another country to please my God and prophet, after which I soon collect my 72 virgins reward. Nothing but well-deserved relaxation says the Imam, strictly for true believers !

:shifty:

[micky1up]

easy i get reborn as danni minogues dildo :lol: :up:

[Sixpack]

easy i get reborn as danni minogues dildo :lol: :up:

So you believe in reincarnation ? Returning as a dildo in your next life would definitely be a major step up for you, even though it'd mean Danni Minogue will be over 70 years old by then :rotfl:

[Hitman]

Not so! The soul is affected by the deeds of its possesor in this world. As the first article I linked to states:

This is the world of doing, and the "world to come" is where we experience the eternal reality of whatever we've become.

We make forceable imprints on our soul in this world.


That means asuming that our soul is a different entity from our personality as a whole, and thus, that our personality as we know it will die. So we wil dissapear when we die, and the sould, with that prints, will go elsewhere not retaining our self-consciousness.

And anyway, what prints will a 3 months years old child who dies leave in his soul? Scarcely enough to have even the consciousness of his own "I"

:shifty:

[The Avon Lady]

Not so! The soul is affected by the deeds of its possesor in this world. As the first article I linked to states:

This is the world of doing, and the "world to come" is where we experience the eternal reality of whatever we've become.

We make forceable imprints on our soul in this world.


That means asuming that our soul is a different entity from our personality as a whole, and thus, that our personality as we know it will die. So we wil dissapear when we die, and the sould, with that prints, will go elsewhere not retaining our self-consciousness.

And anyway, what prints will a 3 months years old child who dies leave in his soul? Scarcely enough to have even the consciousness of his own "I"

:shifty:
From the article on reincarnation (http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?s=soul&f=tqak&offset=4) I linked to earlier:

Or other people may have to be involved.

Besides a correction for a soul having to endure this world even for one moment compared to an etrenal world of perfection, the reincarnated soul might be brought back to affect other people in this world, such as a family losing an infant or child.

I'm sure Madonna knows more about this than me by now. Maybe you should ask her.

Or maybe not. :88)

[Abraham]

Not sure yet, maybe just maybe I'll convert to Islam shortly before my expected death, indiscriminately kill a bunch of women and children in another country to please my God and prophet, after which I soon collect my 72 virgins reward. Nothing but well-deserved relaxation says the Imam, strictly for true believers!
:shifty:
Please put a warning on the General Topic Forum when you plan to die... :D
To make Islamic afterlife even more unattractive for men I've heard that no alcohol is served and those virgins somehow always remain virginal... even after the act!
I rather spend the evening with one experienced woman and a bottle of whine in this life than any amount of crying, bleeding, complaining (and comparing!) virgins and a glass of water in Paradise...
:dead:

[Hitman]

Or other people may have to be involved.

That makes it even worser....if a soul can have different personalities in the earth thorugh succesive purifications, it is clearer than ever that Avon Lady or Hitman, as we are now, will cease to exist when they die, and only a print of their behaviour -not their self consciousness- will remain in an entity that is not them.

This is in my opinion similar to amnesiae or going mad...the person ceased to exist, because a person is his experiences and education. It's just that the body and the soul remain, but the personality -and thus, the person we knew- simply vanished for ever with no trace. :o

[The Avon Lady]

I know a little bit about various medical conditions but if you want to hear more than the basics, you should consult a physician.

Similarly, my purpose here is not to argue, nor to profess expertise, but to give a general knowledge about a very specific subject, according to a Jewish perspective.

I have never studied the subject of reincarnation nor is my knowledge about souls or the world to come vast enough to qualify me as an afterlife technical support representative.

If you're really interested in the subject, I'm sure there's tons of article on the Web for you to read, that may answer some of the questions you have.

I, however, am not qualified to do so. :nope: That's for sure! :yep:

[Hitman]

Similarly, my purpose here is not to argue, nor to profess expertise, but to give a general knowledge about a very specific subject, according to a Jewish perspective.

You have however argued very well, and in the common dialog of two persons (You and me) who are no experts in reincarnation, we have sure progressed and perfectioned our ideas :up: Even the fact of putting our preconceived ideas to stress and wondering about their exactitude, we have refined them. Isn't it beautiful how open minded and peaceful discussion allows people to improve as humans? :D

[The Avon Lady]

Similarly, my purpose here is not to argue, nor to profess expertise, but to give a general knowledge about a very specific subject, according to a Jewish perspective.
You have however argued very well, and in the common dialog of two persons (You and me) who are no experts in reincarnation, we have sure progressed and perfectioned our ideas :up: Even the fact of putting our preconceived ideas to stress and wondering about their exactitude, we have refined them. Isn't it beautiful how open minded and peaceful discussion allows people to improve as humans? :D
Man: Good morning, I'd like to have an argument, please.

Receptionist: Certainly, sir. Have you been here before?

Man: No, this is my first time.

Receptionist: I see, well we'll see who's free at the moment.

Mr. Bakely's free, but he's a little bit concilliatory. No. Try Mr. Barnhart, room 12.

Man: Thank you.

He enters room 12.

Angry man: WHADDAYOU WANT?

Man: Well, Well, I was told outside that...

Angry man: DON'T GIVE ME THAT, YOU SNOTTY-FACED HEAP OF PARROT DROPPINGS!

Man: What?

A: SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT! YOUR TYPE MAKES ME PUKE!

YOU VACUOUS STUFFY-NOSED MALODOROUS PERVERT!!!

M: Yes, but I came here for an argument!!

A: OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse!

M: Oh! Oh I see!

A: Aha! No, you want room 12A, next door.

M: Oh...Sorry...

A: Not at all!

A: (under his breath) stupid git.

The man goes into room 12A. Another man is sitting behind a desk.

Man: Is this the right room for an argument?

Other Man:(pause) I've told you once.

Man: No you haven't!

Other Man: Yes I have.

M: When?

O: Just now.

M: No you didn't!

O: Yes I did!

M: You didn't!

O: I did!

M: You didn't!

O: I'm telling you, I did!

M: You didn't!

O: (breaking into the developing argument) Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?

M: Ah! (taking out his wallet and paying) Just the five minutes.

O: Just the five minutes. Thank you.

Anyway, I did.

M: You most certainly did not!

O: Now let's get one thing perfectly clear: I most definitely told you!

M: Oh no you didn't!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: Oh no you didn't!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: Oh no you didn't!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: Oh no you didn't!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: Oh no you didn't!

O: Oh yes I did! > very fast

M: Oh no you didn't!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: No you DIDN'T!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: No you DIDN'T!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: No you DIDN'T!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: Oh look, this isn't an argument!

(pause)

O: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

(pause)

M: It's just contradiction!

O: No it isn't!

M: It IS!

O: It is NOT!

M: You just contradicted me!

O: No I didn't!

M: You DID!

O: No no no!

M: You did just then!

O: Nonsense!

M: (exasperated) Oh, this is futile!!

(pause)

O: No it isn't!

M: Yes it is!

(pause)

I came here for a good argument!

O: AH, no you didn't, you came here for an *argument*!

M: An argument isn't just contradiction.

O: Well! it CAN be!

M: No it can't!

An argument is a connected series of statement intended to establish a proposition.

O: No it isn't!

M: Yes it is! 'tisn't just contradiction.

O: Look, if I *argue* with you, I must take up a contrary position!

M: Yes but it isn't just saying "no it isn't".

O: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

O: Yes it is!

M: No it isn't!

O: Yes it is!

M: No it ISN'T! Argument is an intellectual process.

Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.

O: It is NOT!

M: It is!

O: Not at all!

M: It is!

>DING!< The Arguer hits a bell on his desk and stops.

O: Thank you, that's it.

M: (stunned) What?

O: That's it. Good morning.

M: But I was just getting interested!

O: I'm sorry, the five minutes is up.

M: That was never five minutes!!

O: I'm afraid it was.

M: (leading on) No it wasn't.....

(pause)

O: (dirty look) I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue any more.

M: WHAT??

O: If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

M: But that was never five minutes just now!

(pause... the Other Man raises his eyebrows)

Oh Come on!

Oh this is...

This is ridiculous!

O: I told you...

I told you, I'm not allowed to argue unless you PAY!

M: Oh all right. (takes out his wallet and pays again.)

There you are.

O: Thank you.

M: (clears throat) Well...

O: Well WHAT?

M: That was never five minutes just now.

O: I told you, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid!

M: Well I just paid!

O: No you didn't!

M: I DID!!!

O: YOU didn't!

M: I DID!!!

O: YOU didn't!

M: I DID!!!

O: YOU didn't!

M: I DID!!!

O: YOU didn't!

M: (unable to talk straight he's so mad) I don't want to argue about it!

O: Well I'm very sorry but you didn't pay!

M: Ah HAH!! Well if I didn't pay, why are you arguing???

Ah HAAAAAAHHH! Gotcha!

O: (pause) No you haven't!

M: Yes I have!

If you're arguing, I must have paid.

O: Not necessarily.

I *could* be arguing in my spare time.

[kiwi_2005]

There must be more to it than just living 70 odd yrs on this earth then dieing and thats it, we cease to exist. This universe we live in is billions of yrs old yet man only gets to live a fraction of it? And for what purpose. So we're born, we grow up fall in love have children live a few more yrs then we're old and our time is up only to turned to dust or ash and thats it! We will never see our children again and they will never see there parents again. Thats too depressing. I would rather believe we go to another place, heaven, Gods kingdom or the New Jerusalem some call it. Where there is no death nor sickness and tears will be a thing of the past. Pure bliss. Yes the flesh dies but the spirit lives on. Where you go is really how you choose to live on this earth. I have listened to many christians, Jehovah Witnesses have told me that Hell is just eternal death. I think they're wrong there or they're frighten of the truth about hell so adding there version instead to make themselve feel safe... Its so easy for one to not believe in God because if they did then they did know they better start making big changes QUICK! So fooling themselves in thinking there is no God somehow makes them feel safe. Then because of all the religious BS that is poping up, new spiritual religeons with the Mother earth Goddesses or flower power jesus loves you types or people killing in the name of God or i killed my family becasue God told me too weirdos, no wonder today it is hard to get people to believe, why would you want too.

Some say when we die our spirit sleeps until the day of Judgement then we're raise to meet our maker, who is holding the book of life if our name is not in the book of life then it means death. There are 144000 sealed from all the tribes of Israel, that are already choosen to go to heaven these are those that couldn't tell a lie if they wanted too.
Then theres those who lived good lives but wasn't sure if God really exist. They will live in a Kingdom made from God for a thousand yrs where they will experience all the goodness of what God offers them, They will see God, they will never grow old nor suffer from any sickness, but only for a 1000 yrs. Then they will once again be tested by Satan. If they fail the second test then its dinner with hitler.
But do not fear sinners! there is hope :) Have you read the bible? Remember what moses did, no? Well i will tell you.
Moses saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. Glancing this way and that and seeing no-one was looking he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. So that day Moses commited murder. As terrible as Moses' sin was, it did not put him outside the purpose of God. Grace can forgive, cleanse and renew even a murderer and make him fit for the service of God. The same God who took a murderer like Moses or a prosecutor like Saul of Tarus and made them into people of power, can do the same for you. All he requires is your consent and co-operation.

On a last note: I find the mormon way quite amusing they believe they will one day actually become gods themselves! As long as they live pure lives. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Amen to that brother :|\

[Abraham]

Monty Pythons Flying Circus, but Cod be you and me, Avon Lady!
:rotfl:

[The Avon Lady]

Remember what moses did, no? Well i will tell you. Moses saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. Glancing this way and that and seeing no-one was looking he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. So that day Moses commited murder. As terrible as Moses' sin was, it did not put him outside the purpose of God. Grace can forgive, cleanse and renew even a murderer and make him fit for the service of God. The same God who took a murderer like Moses or a prosecutor like Saul of Tarus and made them into people of power, can do the same for you. All he requires is your consent and co-operation.
Regarding Moses, no. He defended a helpless person from being beaten to death by an Egyptian taskmaster, who would have been a threat to Moses had he been alive.

If you kill a robber about to shoot an innocent person on the street, you are a hero, not a murderer.

As for Saul, are you referring to King Saul? If so, to what event?

[Sixpack]

:huh: I don't want to go to New Jerusalem after my death !

Sign me up for an eternal Club Med in a Carribean or Tahitian style resort in the hereafter with beautiful oceans and subtropical islands to explore, plenty of sailing boats, scuba equipment, plenty of hot young women (not all virgins), only a handful of guys to drink beer with and play sims, great food in abundance, etc. And can I be 18 forever then ?

[kiwi_2005]

Regarding Moses, no. He defended a helpless person from being beaten to death by an Egyptian taskmaster, who would have been a threat to Moses had he been alive.

An eye for an eye?

As for Saul, are you referring to King Saul? If so, to what event

(Saul of Tarsus) who was a pharasaic Jew and ruthless persecuter of Xians had a conversion experience. [He was blinded, Jesus told him to go meet a Jew in a certain town (forgot the name of the Jew) the Jews were afraid of him because he was well known as a murderer of Jews but once Saul told him what happened they helped him] Paul (formerly Saul of Tarus) then begins a program to convert the Gentiles to a reformed sect of Judaism.

I know you will correct me if i am wrong :sunny:

[The Avon Lady]

Regarding Moses, no. He defended a helpless person from being beaten to death by an Egyptian taskmaster, who would have been a threat to Moses had he been alive.
An eye for an eye?
No. "Do not stand by your brother's blood" (Leviticus 19:16).

Read your Bible! :smug:

[kiwi_2005]

Read your Bible!

Matthew: Chapter 5 verse 21
:|\

[The Avon Lady]

Read your Bible!
Matthew: Chapter 5 verse 21
It doesn't mention Moses there, does it?!

Let my people go! :arrgh!:

[kiwi_2005]

It doesn't mention Moses there, does it?!

No it doesn't. I just wanted to make sure you weren't losing your touch :smug:

[The Avon Lady]

It doesn't mention Moses there, does it?!
No it doesn't. I just wanted to make sure you weren't losing your touch :smug:
Well I'm sure to wind up with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome after all this posting. :down:

[Abraham]

It doesn't mention Moses there, does it?!
No it doesn't. I just wanted to make sure you weren't losing your touch :smug:
Well I'm sure to wind up with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome after all this posting. :down:
I'm ignorant. Can you explane what Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is? Does it have something to do with sharing a car to avoid paying toll for a tunnel (and save the environment)?
:roll:

[kiwi_2005]

Please dont interupt me, i am re-reading the old testament....Again. :doh:

one question you dont have to answer straight away, maybe when the sydrome clears. How do Jews today see Jesus as? The Son of God or just a messenger of God or God himself.

[Abraham]

Sorry to interrupt, but I'm sure I know The Avon Lady's answer...
Hear Israel, God is One (and Jezus is an heretic).

[kiwi_2005]

God is One and Jezus is an heretic.

Is not Jesus the Messiah which the Jews talked about? Some say Jesus is God and others Jesus is the Son of God.

Jesus is the Son of God. King of the Jews.

[The Avon Lady]

one question you dont have to answer straight away, maybe when the sydrome clears. How do Jews today see Jesus as? The Son of God or just a messenger of God or God himself.
Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.

If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"

you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.
- Deuteronomy 13:1-4

The epitomy of the Torah's definition of a false profit. A phoney baloney, plain and simple. One of numerous at the time. Nothing special about him. Just another guy. He's all yours!

Is this really news to you? Really?!?!?!?! :o

[The Avon Lady]

God is One and Jezus is an heretic.

Is not Jesus the Messiah which the Jews talked about? Some say Jesus is God and others Jesus is the Son of God.

Jesus is the Son of God. King of the Jews.
Only by Christianity's defintion. We never refered to him as such.

General info: Why don't Jews believe in Jesus? (http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?s=false%20prophet&f=tqak&offset=1)

EDIT: Oh, oh! Been through this before. I don't have time for a disputation thread! :nope:

[kiwi_2005]

Is this really news to you? Really?!?!?!?!

The old testament again? What happened to the New Testament? Jesus a false prophet?

We all know the Bible is the Truth, now therefore the teachings of Jesus in the new testament is the truth. But what your saying is (unless i read it wrong) Jesus is a false prophet. The bible also says beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

Jesus of Nazareth is the true King of the Jews, the lord of lords. But he is not God which some believe. Hes the Son of God.

If you say Jesus is a false prophet then surely somehow God would of made sure the teachings of Jesus wasn't added.

[The Avon Lady]

If you say Jesus is a false prophet then surely somehow God would of made sure the teachings of Jesus wasn't added.
He didn't and it wasn't. Only Christianity claims this.

Sorry to break the new to you, kid. :oops:

[kiwi_2005]

Only by Christianity's defintion. We never refered to him as such.

Ok your not a Christian Jew. Instead your the Jews from the old days that stand firm with the old testament beliefs.

Well hey i once use to be a dedicated rastafarian. Dreadlocks and all.

:rock:

[The Avon Lady]

Only by Christianity's defintion. We never refered to him as such.
Ok your not a Christian Jew.
I'm also not a male woman. :nope:
Instead your the Jews from the old days that stand firm with the old testament beliefs.
Yes. We are known as................

............... um .............................

................ah..............................

................ahem..........................

................cough.........................

..........................................Jews. :|\

[Fish]

Is this really news to you? Really?!?!?!?!

The old testament again? What happened to the New Testament? Jesus a false prophet?

We all know the Bible is the Truth, now therefore the teachings of Jesus in the new testament is the truth. But what your saying is (unless i read it wrong) Jesus is a false prophet. The bible also says beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

Jesus of Nazareth is the true King of the Jews, the lord of lords. But he is not God which some believe. Hes the Son of God.

If you say Jesus is a false prophet then surely somehow God would of made sure the teachings of Jesus wasn't added.

Isn't that a bit arrogant Kiwi, to think you know what realy happens 2000 year ago?
People here on the forum quarrel about what happend yesterday. :hmm:

[Fish]

Only by Christianity's defintion. We never refered to him as such.
Ok your not a Christian Jew.
I'm also not a male woman. :nope:
Instead your the Jews from the old days that stand firm with the old testament beliefs.
Yes. We are known as................

............... um .............................

................ah..............................

................ahem..........................

................cough.........................

..........................................Jews. :|\

:rotfl:

[Hitman]

We all know the Bible is the Truth :roll:

If you say Jesus is a false prophet then surely somehow God would of made sure the teachings of Jesus wasn't added.

It was the students of the 4 evangelists who added them many years after Christ was (supposedly) crucified. There is good evidence that only 2 evangelies are authentic, the other two are bad copies and have contradictions plus a godo amount of bad translations of words, beginning with the virginity of Maria (Virgin was any young woman for jews, and to be more precise, a young woman in the "test" marraige, before the definitive one was accomplished). Same goes for the word "Angel" and many more....

The Avon Lady is completely right as to about why does Crhist not fullfill the profecies. An entirely different matter is the authenticity and reasonability of the old testament (Which christians share with jews) and the leading idea on it about God being the God only (Or mainly) for the jews, and against their enemies.

BTW forgot to add: The muslims also recognize in Christ a prophet, part of the hate they have for jews is supposedly for killing Ben Yussuf (The son of Joseph), because they take prophets as holy men (Same as mads are holy for the Islam). Of course they deny any other doctrine about God than the one established by Muhammad, since he came after Christ and was the definitive prophet :88)

[The Avon Lady]

Is this really news to you? Really?!?!?!?!

The old testament again? What happened to the New Testament? Jesus a false prophet?

We all know the Bible is the Truth, now therefore the teachings of Jesus in the new testament is the truth. But what your saying is (unless i read it wrong) Jesus is a false prophet. The bible also says beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.

Jesus of Nazareth is the true King of the Jews, the lord of lords. But he is not God which some believe. Hes the Son of God.

If you say Jesus is a false prophet then surely somehow God would of made sure the teachings of Jesus wasn't added.

Isn't that a bit arrogant Kiwi, to think you know what realy happens 2000 year ago?
People here on the forum quarrel about what happend yesterday. :hmm:
That's OK. Kiwi's a nice guy.

This really seems to be new information that's taken him aback somewhat and needs to be digested.

But I have a hunch what's going to follow and I can't hang around to respond right now.

[kiwi_2005]

Isn't that a bit arrogant Kiwi, to think you know what realy happens 2000 year ago?
People here on the forum quarrel about what happend yesterday.

Read the new testament. Jesus of Nazareth.... I dont think i know thats why im asking questions and Avon is being patient with my questions... so far.

And Avon there are christain Jews that live up my street, they also call themselves....Jews. I just got to remeber there are two different types.

[The Avon Lady]

An entirely different matter is the authenticity and reasonability of the old testament (Which christians share with jews) and the leading idea on it about God being the God only (Or mainly) for the jews, and against their enemies.
This is highly erroneous. Every human being is invited to honor G-d and obey his will. And this does not require non-Jews becoming Jews. See The 7 Noachide Laws (http://www.aish.com/literacy/judaism123/The_7_Noachide_Laws.asp).

/must stop responding..................... :damn:

[The Avon Lady]

And Avon there are christain Jews that live up my street, they also call themselves....Jews. I just got to remeber there are two different types.
Yes. They call themselves Jews for Jesus, an oxymoron, as I've tried to point out.

[Fish]

Isn't that a bit arrogant Kiwi, to think you know what realy happens 2000 year ago?
People here on the forum quarrel about what happend yesterday.

Read the new testament. Jesus of Nazareth.... I dont think i know thats why im asking questions and Avon is being patient with my questions... so far.

And Avon there are christain Jews that live up my street, they also call themselves....Jews. I just got to remeber there are two different types.

I read the new testament, and now what? :hmm:

[kiwi_2005]

I read the new testament, and now what

Not the rastafarian testament, The greek version.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Anyways Avon is gone therefore i have no more questions.

[Fish]

I read the new testament, and now what

Not the rastafarian testament, The greek version.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Anyways Avon is gone therefore i have no more questions.

Did that too, Dutch translation that is. :shifty:

[Oberon]

When you die, it's simple.

There's a big black void, stretching to infinity in all directions, and in the middle of that black void in huge white letters is the following:


GAME OVER.

NEW GAME?

Y/N

[kiwi_2005]

must stop responding.....................

Yes lets stop. Im off to the SH3 threads to vent my confusion out on some newbie n00b thats just signed up. :|\

[micky1up]

easy i get reborn as danni minogues dildo :lol: :up:

So you believe in reincarnation ? Returning as a dildo in your next life would definitely be a major step up for you, even though it'd mean Danni Minogue will be over 70 years old by then :rotfl:


well knowing u my friend u will come back as an american and then promptley by numerous hand guns and assualt rifles to protect yourself and your property from the raiding indians :lol:

[Wim Libaers]

:) If reincarnation was true then the population of the world would remain constant??????????

Only if you assume that every single soul always reincarnates instantly, and that there is a constant number of them.



Not sure yet, maybe just maybe I'll convert to Islam shortly before my expected death, indiscriminately kill a bunch of women and children in another country to please my God and prophet, after which I soon collect my 72 virgins reward. Nothing but well-deserved relaxation says the Imam, strictly for true believers!
:shifty:
Please put a warning on the General Topic Forum when you plan to die... :D


Why do you worry? He clearly states "in another country", and you're both in the Netherlands, no?

It would be good if Flanders and the Netherlands were reunited. then I could stop worrying about him too :rotfl:




There must be more to it than just living 70 odd yrs on this earth then dieing and thats it, we cease to exist. This universe we live in is billions of yrs old yet man only gets to live a fraction of it? And for what purpose. So we're born, we grow up fall in love have children live a few more yrs then we're old and our time is up only to turned to dust or ash and thats it! We will never see our children again and they will never see there parents again. Thats too depressing.

So, because it is too unpleasant, it cannot be true?




This is highly erroneous. Every human being is invited to honor G-d and obey his will. And this does not require non-Jews becoming Jews. See The 7 Noachide Laws (http://www.aish.com/literacy/judaism123/The_7_Noachide_Laws.asp).

/must stop responding..................... :damn:

If I read that correctly, it doesn't require believing in God, just absence of active opposition?

[Rockstar]

one question you dont have to answer straight away, maybe when the sydrome clears. How do Jews today see Jesus as? The Son of God or just a messenger of God or God himself.
Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.

If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"

you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.
- Deuteronomy 13:1-4

The epitomy of the Torah's definition of a false profit. A phoney baloney, plain and simple. One of numerous at the time. Nothing special about him. Just another guy. He's all yours!

Is this really news to you? Really?!?!?!?! :o


In this chapter of Deuteronomy the Israelites are taught how to discern a false prophet.

Where in the New Testement does Jesus Christ claim to serve or tempt others to chase after false gods?

You have the law but what does the law prove? That all and I mean all both Jew and Gentile are guilty before God. And if guilty then deserving death for it is written the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

[Sharkstooth]

I'm ignorant. Can you explane what Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is? Does it have something to do with sharing a car to avoid paying toll for a tunnel (and save the environment)?
:up: you've pegged it exactly Abraham.
(btw... love your av...is almost like I'm standing right there watching you look out over the water or somethin.... :P )

[Rockstar]

whoops almost forgot :)

Scripturally what happens after you die?

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

No parties, no wine, women or song, just darkness, torment, forever alone, no companionship, apart from God for eternity.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Very much a place I would hope you would like to be. But there is only one way, a narrow path the width of one man, Jesus Christ.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

[Abraham]

one question you dont have to answer straight away, maybe when the sydrome clears. How do Jews today see Jesus as? The Son of God or just a messenger of God or God himself.
Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.

If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"

you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.
- Deuteronomy 13:1-4

The epitomy of the Torah's definition of a false profit. A phoney baloney, plain and simple. One of numerous at the time. Nothing special about him. Just another guy. He's all yours!

Is this really news to you? Really?!?!?!?! :o


In this chapter of Deuteronomy the Israelites are taught how to discern a false prophet.

Where in the New Testement does Jesus Christ claim to serve or tempt others to chase after false gods?

You have the law but what does the law prove? That all and I mean all both Jew and Gentile are guilty before God. And if guilty then deserving death for it is written the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.Amen! :up:

[Abraham]

I'm ignorant. Can you explane what Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is? Does it have something to do with sharing a car to avoid paying toll for a tunnel (and save the environment)?
:up: you've pegged it exactly Abraham.
(btw... love your av...is almost like I'm standing right there watching you look out over the water or somethin.... :P )
I'll take the cap with me to the next Subsim.com Meeting and pose for you, my dear Sharktooth! All honors for the picture go to Horsa though, who told me where to stare (and how to look serious with a bunch of subsim.commers around us laughing and taking pictures themselves).
:D

[Iceman]

God is One and Jezus is an heretic.

Is not Jesus the Messiah which the Jews talked about? Some say Jesus is God and others Jesus is the Son of God.

Jesus is the Son of God. King of the Jews.
Only by Christianity's defintion. We never refered to him as such.

General info: Why don't Jews believe in Jesus? (http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?s=false%20prophet&f=tqak&offset=1)

EDIT: Oh, oh! Been through this before. I don't have time for a disputation thread! :nope:

A quote from that link Avon....

This is one of the most pragmatic, logical and clear explanations I have ever heard to the questions of Jesus. Thank you. I will pass this on to at least 20 people who have asked these questions, or to Jews who would not be able to respond to these questions.

I agree with this persons comments completley.I am begining to understand more and more why Christians and Jews get along better than with Muslims....and yet I am finding in all 3 of these beliefs there is much truths in all of them.Was reading some last night on the theory of relativity and did not realize how Muslim faith draws a direct connections to it....even seem to claim 1400 yr advanced knowledge of it.I am wondering if this is the mystery of God in that...My christian faith decalres God is Light...and if time stops basically at the speed of light then when ya hang out with God in the light... Time is no longer a factor...make any sense to anyone?

Anyway thk you for the link Avon.

P.S. I like this idea of a name only me and God knows...ya think it will be cause then you would always always know when the True God is speaking with ya cause only you and Him know the name.And I bet that Angelic bread is good. :)

Revelation 2
[17] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

[The Avon Lady]

one question you dont have to answer straight away, maybe when the sydrome clears. How do Jews today see Jesus as? The Son of God or just a messenger of God or God himself.
Everything I command you that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.

If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"

you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.
- Deuteronomy 13:1-4

The epitomy of the Torah's definition of a false profit. A phoney baloney, plain and simple. One of numerous at the time. Nothing special about him. Just another guy. He's all yours!

Is this really news to you? Really?!?!?!?! :o
In this chapter of Deuteronomy the Israelites are taught how to discern a false prophet.

Where in the New Testement does Jesus Christ claim to serve or tempt others to chase after false gods?
The entire concept of a divine physical object or being or a physical intermediary of any sort between man and G-d is the essence of the defintion of the prohibition of "Avodah Zarah" - "Strange Worship" (incorrectly translated to "Idol Worship").

All of Christianity has historically been based on the concept of Jesus as a divine being in Human form, to be worshipped.
You have the law but what does the law prove?
Just what I said.
That all and I mean all both Jew and Gentile are guilty before God.
How did this fly into the room? Is this some Christian concept, like "he died for our sins"? Please clarify.
And if guilty then deserving death for it is written the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.
This is a non-starter for the people who received the Torah at Sinai from G-d.
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
You are preaching to those that have been told otherwise by G-d and his servant Moses. It simply never cut the mustard with the Children of Israel.

EDIT: I knew this was going to happen. Talk about prophecy! :roll:

[kiwi_2005]

One love, One love...
Lets get together and feel alright.

Jah rasta-far-i ever lived ever fearful, JAH RASTAMAN VIBRATIONS!!!
Rastas believe they are the true Jews the Black Jews.

Bob Marley the False prophet :yep:

[kiwi_2005]

Its ok i have put the wine away and now drinking coffee :|\

[kiwi_2005]

Its ok i have put the wine away and now drinking coffee :|\

[Abraham]

Sure?
:rotfl:

[The Avon Lady]

Most probably Irish coffee. :roll:

[Sharkstooth]

I'll take the cap with me to the next Subsim.com Meeting and pose for you, my dear Sharktooth! All honors for the picture go to Horsa though, who told me where to stare (and how to look serious with a bunch of subsim.commers around us laughing and taking pictures themselves).
:D

uh huh.....I was one of them. :up:

[Abraham]

I'll take the cap with me to the next Subsim.com Meeting and pose for you, my dear Sharktooth! All honors for the picture go to Horsa though, who told me where to stare (and how to look serious with a bunch of subsim.commers around us laughing and taking pictures themselves).
:D

uh huh.....I was one of them. :up:
Did the pic come out well?
Otherwise I might pose for you in privat, next time...

[horsa]

All honors for the picture go to Horsa though, who told me where to stare (and how to look serious with a bunch of subsim.commers around us laughing and taking pictures themselves).

Actually you're a pretty good model, Abraham :D Some ppl have it, some ppl don't.

Otherwise I might pose for you in privat, next time...

Bite his hand off, Sharkie. I'm sure he won't disappoint. :up:

[Abraham]

@ Horsa:
:rotfl:

[Mr Quatro]

I approve of this old thread :yep: ... lets pick up where they left off almost 11 years ago.

I think it only takes a matter of minutes to find out which side your on after you die. There is a war going on ... at the moment of death that is who you are forever.

Good/bad/indifferent/sober/proud/haughty/slow/fast/etc.

I know some of these members (Lord rest their souls) are now on the other side too bad dead men can't talk or can they?

[Buddahaid]

Resurrecting a necro thread about necro. :hmm2:

[Torplexed]

Sad, sad, little man.

Get a Palm Pilot.

Whoa. When you raise a thread that is so old that it has a reference to a Palm Pilot...well that is some serious dredging. :o

[Reece]

You either rot in the ground, rot in the sea or burn to ashes!!!:03: I hope this helps!!:yep:

[Oberon]

Huh, hard to think that the last person to post in this thread pre-necro now knows the answer to the OPs question... :nope:

[Onkel Neal]

Resurrecting a necro thread about necro. :hmm2:

That contains posts by two members who have died....:hmmm:

[Reece]

Wow!! That's scary!!:o

[danasan]

Wow!! That's scary!!:o

So, we'd better not touch this...

[Betonov]

I hope they won't find my body.
I'm already determined not to await eternity in a catholic (or any other) cemetary, so when my time comes I hope I'll have a chance to escape to the woods and let the animals scatter my remains.

[Jimbuna]

Resurrecting a necro thread about necro. :hmm2:

That contains posts by two members who have died....:hmmm:

:ping::ping::ping:

[Mr Quatro]

also contains four members that still post today ... :up:

I know for sure that one of two things will happen when you die.

1. They have to dispose of the body by burial or cremation after the inspection and removal of your inner now no longer working parts.

2. The spirit is left to ponder which side they will serve or a higher power will decide for them

I want my tombstone to read, "If I had of been a better person I wouldn't be left down here ... I would be up there"

Read The Avon Lady's post #38
a classic answer for people that want to argue :yep:

[Torvald Von Mansee]

I'm all but certain nothing happens after you die.

I wish I would see my lost loved ones, but I don't think it's going to happen.

[Eichhörnchen]

I agree; I think it'll just be like a light switched off... then nothing

[Tycho]

Resurrecting a necro thread about necro. :hmm2:
THE NIGHT OF THE LIVING THREAD.
RETURNED FROM THE DEAD TO EAT THE ATTENTION SPANS OF THE LIVING.

[aanker]

I'll bite : )

It would be too boring to play harps for eternity ....

Seriously, since 3rd grade (and I'm an older guy now) I still believe I will just rot, and if cremated, (either way) my remains will be part of the Sun when it expands to become a Red Giant in 5 +/- billion years and turns the Earth into a small cinder.

[AVGWarhawk]

I guess we will find out when we get there.

[Schroeder]

I hope they won't find my body.
I'm already determined not to await eternity in a catholic (or any other) cemetary, so when my time comes I hope I'll have a chance to escape to the woods and let the animals scatter my remains.
Over here we have forests where you can get tree burials. Your ashes get buried by the roots of a tree in a compostable urn so that your ashes are returned to the circle of life. My family has chosen this way of burial and we have now a family tree under which we all will be "reunited" one day (my father is already there.:-?).

That might be an option for you if that's available in Slovenia as well.

[Aktungbby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ236CwhlPw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ236CwhlPw)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Songs_of_the_workers_9th_Edition.pdf/page1-200px-Songs_of_the_workers_9th_Edition.pdf.jpg

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Songs_of_the_workers_9th_Edition.pdf)Of course poor Joe Hill found out sooner than most!:dead:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Joe_hill002.jpg/220px-Joe_hill002.jpg
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Joe_hill002.jpg)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ab/Joe-Hill-execution-diagram-1915.jpg/800px-Joe-Hill-execution-diagram-1915.jpg

[QUOTE=Joe Hill] "Goodbye Bill. I die like a true blue rebel. Don't waste any time in mourning. Organize... Could you arrange to have my body hauled to the state line to be buried? I don't want to be found dead in Utah."[ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Hill#cite_note-17)[QUOTE]

[Von Due]

Seems to be clear to me whatever happens, I won't be around to concern myself with it. I'm here now feeding on whatever plant or animal is on my plate, I guess I'll return the favour and be on some micro organism's plate and we can call it even.

[August]

I believe that when we die our spirit joins with the creator if we haven't rejected his existence. Now maybe i'm wrong and the atheists who think it all ends when our heart stops beating are right but I figure that only those who believe as I do will have a chance of finding out one way or the other.

[Betonov]

Over here we have forests where you can get tree burials. Your ashes get buried by the roots of a tree in a compostable urn so that your ashes are returned to the circle of life. My family has chosen this way of burial and we have now a family tree under which we all will be "reunited" one day (my father is already there.:-?).

That might be an option for you if that's available in Slovenia as well.

Problem is with my fammily. If I die old and "padre de familia" then they will sinply do what I requested and I can go easily in my bed. Supported by a legal letter demanding not to be burried in a cemetary.
My parents and grandmother though, I don't trust them to uphold such unortodox wishes. If I'll die young I'll have to make sure I dont end up behind the church.
I had a few discussions about this topic with them and was dismissed as being moronic :/\\!!

[vienna]

It would be too boring to play harps for eternity ....



Mark Twain once told of how, as a child, when he asked an older relative what heaven was like, he was told it was like being in church foe eternity; Twain said he had thought long on the concept, and, if being in church for eternity wasn't hell, he didn't know what was; he also is quoted as saying "Heaven for the climate, Hell for the companionship". Someone once asked me if I wanted to go to heaven and I said, "No." When asked why not: "I don't like the idea of being alone for eternity"...


A popular theory is if you dream and you die in the dream, you will die in real life, at the same time. I have had two dreams where I have died, each by different means. I am still here, alive; either I am alive and the theory is therefore wrong, or I am actually dead and I must have done something really heinous to deserve this hell...

In my death dreams, at the moment of death, it was just like suddenly being in a void; I was aware but there was nothing around me nor any sound; it was just existence in nothing. Back in 2004, I had major surgery occasioned by a severe attack of pancreatitis. After the surgery, the surgeon (there were actually three who performed the operation) was giving me details about the surgery and told me my blood pressure had dropped to such an alarming level they were unsure of whether they could actually operate and save my life. I had been drifting in and out of consciousness when the ambulance had taken me to the emergency room; I was conscious when I was wheeled into the operating room; I recall it was windowless and looked akin to those setups you see where they give condemned prisoners fatal injections. When they gave me the anesthesia, I was told to count backwards from 100; I got to 98. At that point I was fully out for the surgeons, but I was in that same "death" state I had experienced in my dreams: a sudden flip of the switch and a void. Oddly, I recall actually commenting to myself "Wow, that was fast!". I seemed to be aware for several seconds more before I lost all sense. I think about that experience every once in a while and wonder, given the surgeon's later description of my condition before surgery, if I might not have flirted with eternity at the moment the anesthesia took hold...



<O>

[Buddahaid]

“If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.”
― Voltaire

[Platapus]

It is said that all dogs go to heaven.

I hope that my past dogs will put in a good word for me so I can visit them once in a while.

[vienna]

Just be sure you keep them in kibble...




<O>

[Mr Quatro]

Where did all of those ghost movies come from?

Ghost are real it's just that nobody can prove it, right?

They are on one side and we humans are on the other, but they can't talk to us or if they do everyone would say, "Hey man your crazy ghost can't talk"

I saw a ghost one time in an old neighborhood with houses that looked like they came out of those spooky movies and as I was walking by a ghost or a spirit or whatever followed me from one window to another window as I picked up my pace and realized that the house must have had walls ... how did that thing do that just pass through walls?

[AndyJWest]

Where did all of those ghost movies come from?

Ghost are real it's just that nobody can prove it, right?

They are on one side and we humans are on the other, but they can't talk to us or if they do everyone would say, "Hey man your crazy ghost can't talk"

I saw a ghost one time in an old neighborhood with houses that looked like they came out of those spooky movies and as I was walking by a ghost or a spirit or whatever followed me from one window to another window as I picked up my pace and realized that the house must have had walls ... how did that thing do that just pass through walls?

Maybe the house had doors?

[Eichhörnchen]

I believe that when we die our spirit joins with the creator if we haven't rejected his existence. Now maybe i'm wrong and the atheists who think it all ends when our heart stops beating are right but I figure that only those who believe as I do will have a chance of finding out one way or the other.

I wouldn't want you to think I'm an atheist, August: I'm just agnostic.

[Reece]

I believe that when we die our spirit joins with the creator if we haven't rejected his existence. Now maybe i'm wrong and the atheists who think it all ends when our heart stops beating are right but I figure that only those who believe as I do will have a chance of finding out one way or the other.
:yep: I'll add one thing, have NO doubts.:up:

[Sailor Steve]

A popular theory is if you dream and you die in the dream, you will die in real life, at the same time.
I would call it a belief rather than a theory. I was first told that by a classmate when I was fifteen. Even then my immediate response was "How would anyone know?" We can monitor when people are dreaming, but we don't know what they're dreaming. If we don't know what someone is dreaming unless he wakes up and tells us, how could we possibly know what someone is dreaming if they never wake up?

[razark]

I don't know what will happen after I die. (But if my friends and family follow my wishes, it's going to involve a hearse, the sound system from an ice cream truck, and a lot of sad kids.)

[Armistead]

I didn't exist in past eternity and it didn't bother me a bit, nor will it in a future eternity. Who knows, 1000's of religions over history have had their own versions of what happens, usually with each if u accept you go to some heaven, if u reject, that God tortures you forever.. I grew up in the Christian tradition and had no problem believing billions of others that didn't believe it would go to hell forever to be tortured and deserved it. Only problem I guess if I'm wrong and one of them are right, If I was indoctrinated and sincere in the wrong thing....I would plead to God I tried and didn't know any better....course each religion basically says ....too bad for you.

Sure, who wouldn't love to live for ever and see all their friends and family again, but I see zero evidence for it, except possibly something bigger exist, but if it takes me figuring out the right religion or method to get there, I'm probably doomed.

[Betonov]

Only problem I guess if I'm wrong and one of them are right, If I was indoctrinated and sincere in the wrong thing....I would plead to God I tried and didn't know any better....course each religion basically says ....too bad for you.


You're in luck, the Pope said it's your actions, not your belief that decide if you go up or down.
An Atheist can still go to heaven while a Bible thumping rapist will still burn.

[Mr Quatro]

The man that wrote Amazing Grace had to suffer before he wrote this song.
He was a slave trader ... when the Coast Guard caught up with him one time he ordered all of his slaves thrown overboard with their chains still on before the Coast Guard could catch up with him. This was back in the old ship sailing days.

His heart wrote this ... perhaps we have to suffer in order to understand.

Lyrics
Amazing grace how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now I'm found.
Was blind but now I see.
'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved.
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.
When we've been there ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Then when we first begun.
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost, but now I'm found.
Was blind, but now I see

[Sailor Steve]

You left out four of the six verses. :O:

[Schroeder]

A popular theory is if you dream and you die in the dream, you will die in real life, at the same time.
That seems to be wrong to me as I have died in a dream and went to the void....but that was it and I'm still here.:88)

[Aktungbby]

You left out four of the six verses. :O:
Just for u BBY!:D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2arm5ydeJc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2arm5ydeJc)

[Commander Wallace]

Just for u BBY!:D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2arm5ydeJc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2arm5ydeJc)

That's awesome . :up:

[Mr Quatro]

That's awesome . :up:

This one is even better ... considered to be the best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdvReNKKuk&list=RD-eKOqeZ0ntU&index=18&nohtml5=False

starts with a thunder storm turn up your speakers

[Buddahaid]

I simply can't listen to that song anymore. I've heard it a million times from every bagpipe player both great and terrible warming up.

[Commander Wallace]

This one is even better ... considered to be the best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdvReNKKuk&list=RD-eKOqeZ0ntU&index=18&nohtml5=False

starts with a thunder storm turn up your speakers

Thanks so much for posting the link that you did. It's fantastic. For my money, nothing beats the extraordinary ladies of Celtic Woman and their version of this song which was done somewhere around 2007 at Powerscourt House and Gardens, south of Dublin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsCp5LG_zNE

[Sailor Steve]

Just for u BBY!:D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2arm5ydeJc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2arm5ydeJc)

That's awesome . :up:
I have to disagree. Huge choirs lessen the impact of a song for me. It doesn't sound like they have any conviction - only volume.

This one is even better ... considered to be the best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDdvReNKKuk&list=RD-eKOqeZ0ntU&index=18&nohtml5=False

starts with a thunder storm turn up your speakers
It's okay, but then I'm biased. A friend and I played it for another friend's wedding back in 1977. Two guitars and two voices. I have a cassette recording, but I've never taken the time to put it on a CD. Not perfect. Not even beautiful. But more heartfelt than any professional recording I've ever heard.

I simply can't listen to that song anymore. I've heard it a million times from every bagpipe player both great and terrible warming up.
I agree to a point. Ever since the first bagpipe recording in the early '70s everyone considers that to be the standard. That version was good, but it's so overused now as to be truly annoying.

[Commander Wallace]

I have to disagree. Huge choirs lessen the impact of a song for me. It doesn't sound like they have any conviction - only volume.


It's okay, but then I'm biased. A friend and I played it for another friend's wedding back in 1977. Two guitars and two voices. I have a cassette recording, but I've never taken the time to put it on a CD. Not perfect. Not even beautiful. But more heartfelt than any professional recording I've ever heard.


I agree to a point. Ever since the first bagpipe recording in the early '70s everyone considers that to be the standard. That version was good, but it's so overused now as to be truly annoying.


You can disagree but musical tastes are subjective, without reason. If we all liked the same thing, the world would soon run out of chocolate ice cream.

[Mr Quatro]

Here's a seven (7) year old girl singing Amazing Grace ... you will not be disappointed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDDlxmsciqY

[Aktungbby]

Just for u BBY!:D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2arm5ydeJc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2arm5ydeJc)

I have to disagree. Huge choirs lessen the impact of a song for me. It doesn't sound like they have any conviction - only volume.





Well It's all about the bagpipeshttp://www.4smileys.com/smileys/music-smileys/bagpipe.gif I note, with Mr Newton's allegedly throwing slaves overboard, that aboard Titanic, the band opted for "Nearer my God to Thee" as the passengers lowered themselves into the brine by all means possible as the hereafter loomed...instead of "Amazing Grace"!!?? The politically aware bandleader, Mr. Hartley, and his violin were found! Now that speaks volumes!:shucks: http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02509/Titanic-violin_2509384b.jpg:hmmm: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9929996/Violin-played-on-Titanic-revealed-for-first-time.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/9929996/Violin-played-on-Titanic-revealed-for-first-time.html)

[Sailor Steve]

You can disagree but musical tastes are subjective, without reason.
That's why I didn't contradict, only disagreed.

If we all liked the same thing, the world would soon run out of chocolate ice cream.
I'm glad my favorite is vanilla. :sunny:

[Commander Wallace]

That's why I didn't contradict, only disagreed.


I'm glad my favorite is vanilla. :sunny:

It's all good Steve. Music is such that most will find something they like in everything. That's why I called it subjective to one's particular tastes.

I prefer the orange sherbet myself. :)

[Mr Quatro]

All music is just a mathematical cadence that sets the soul free from Blue Suede shoes to Amazing Grace
something to do with the % of water in our bodies and our brain chemicals and of course the heart, body and soul.

Did you know that your guts have a lot to do with what you like?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-holmes/its-not-your-heart-that-r_b_5673477.html

This web site won't let me copy and paste, but it is worth looking into ... your know that old saying, "I have a gut feeling" about something?

[Eichhörnchen]

I like the ice cream with nuts in

[Betonov]

All music is just a mathematical cadence that sets the soul free from Blue Suede shoes to Amazing Grace
something to do with the % of water in our bodies and our brain chemicals and of course the heart, body and soul.


Reminds me of this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjHORRHXtyI)

[vienna]

I'm glad my favorite is vanilla. :sunny:

Several years ago, I was in an ice cream store where they had a very wide variety of flavors. It was a very hot day and there was a long line. There was a group of about a half dozen trendy people ahead of me. When they got to the counter, they spent an ungodly amount of time asking for samples and debating the choices, something along the line of "Oh, this flavor reminds me of last summer in Maui", "I think this one would go well with a pressed duck dinner", and so on. They finally made up their minds, got their ice cream, and moved off to the side. I got up to the counter and asked for vanilla ice cream. One of the trendies heard my request and commented: "Vanilla? Isn't that rather unimaginative?" I replied "Maybe so, but I didn't keep a long line of people waiting while I dallied about and dithered."...


I don't know what happens after we die, but if there is a place of eternal punishment and agony, I do hope there is an especially hot place reserved for people like those trendies...



<O>

[Eichhörnchen]

What the hell's all this got to do with ice cream anyway? Unless of course an ice cream cone is a metaphor for life: The first half is soft and smooooth and tasty; the second half is dry, tasteless and brittle, and keeps on getting smaller and smaaller and... smaaaller... until... all gone!

[Jeff-Groves]

I hope it's just like going to sleep with no dreams.
Sleep. The little death.

I don't believe in any afterlife.

[mapuc]

If this has been mentioned or have been debated in this thread then erase my comment, ´cause I haven't read every comment in this thread

Many years ago a group of scientist from Sweden, England and two other countries joint together and made a survey, where they in each separat country asked those who have been dead for second or minutes and had been relived

From what I can remember the answer they got, told them that it was not a common experience the patient had while being dead-the story they told was different.

They also found out that the "Dream" they have had also depended on their belief or not.

The are two stories I do remember, some part of it.

One was a man from England. He told the scientist he saw a bright light and a man with beard opening his arm when he suddenly was drawn backwards and later woke up.

The next was also from England, but this was also a man who came from India and he told the scientist he had seen a person with several arms

A third person said he was so to say nearby seeing the doctors working on his body.

Markus

[Aktungbby]

The little death.

Hey! keep it clean would ya! Petite mort discussions are inappropriate for an afterlife thread:O: STEVE!!!!

[ivanov.ruslan]

Our ancestors believed that death does not exist, and there is only a long separation, perhaps so they were easier to overcome...

[Sailor Steve]

"Vanilla? Isn't that rather unimaginative?"
Maybe. It's also rather delicious.

What the hell's all this got to do with ice cream anyway?
No more than it has to do with which version of 'Amazing Grace' one likes the best. Derailing an active thread with a specific point can be annoying. A resurrected thread in which people have quickly run out of things to talk about is another thing entirely. Your opinion on the afterlife, or whether there is one, is easy to state but impossible to argue. What else is there?

[Rockstar]

hmmm, as far as my way of thinking goes, much has changed.

Only the dead know for sure what happens when the body dies. But there have been some who have been revived and shared experiences which would indicate it doesnt end on the death bed. So I suppose it is possible there may be a transition from the physical to the metaphysical and why not? Already science has firm clues that has changed and continues to challange our old ideas of what reality is.

It boggles my mind to think how an ethereal massless energy eventually condensed to form matter, became alive, learned to love, feel joy, compose great symphonies and reach for the stars. That thing that makes you you, your soul conscience whatever you want to call it, is energy and its got to go somewhere. :D

[u crank]

That thing that makes you you, your soul conscience whatever you want to call it, is energy and its got to go somewhere. :D

It's a nice thought but there is no evidence that anything like that happens. Although I had many years as a believer in such things I don't think there is an afterlife. When the power goes off and brain activity ceases, that's it. In many ways i think it will be a relief. :O:

I didn't exist in past eternity and it didn't bother me a bit, nor will it in a future eternity.

^This.

It's true. In the scale of the universe as we know it we're barely visible. Just a blip.

[destroyersgrave]

Honestly I think Neapolitan is the best ice cream
chocolate, vanilla and strawberry how can you go wrong Xd:D

[Rockstar]

It's a nice thought but there is no evidence that anything like that happens. Although I had many years as a believer in such things I don't think there is an afterlife. When the power goes off and brain activity ceases, that's it. In many ways i think it will be a relief. :O:



^This.

It's true. In the scale of the universe as we know it we're barely visible. Just a blip.



We the living I dont think have any solid evidence to support either claim. Like I said only the dead know for sure what happens after we die. But things do change as we learn more. 100 years ago science just 'knew' the universe was eternal. Today sceince now has evidence that suggests it had a beginning.

[Skybird]

What happens after I died?

Having no own family by then, and expecting my parents to be dead by then, foreign people I never knew will come and do with the dead corpus and my former belongings what they want, following my last will as they pleases, so its absolutely possible they will ignore it as well, and I will not exist to care for that anymore.

That is what will happen.

I like this author who has just two words on his gravestone in some natural reserve in the US: "No comment." :)

"No drama" also would have been good. :D

All this rite and ritual is not for the dead, but for the survivors. Do not sent the deceased those expensive flowers. Do that while they still are alive. If you missed that, save your money later on.

[Skybird]

Today sceince now has evidence that suggests it had a beginning.
Maybe consider "beginning" in plural. ;)

[Jeff-Groves]

I want a simple head stone.
"WTF?"
:haha:

[aanker]

I simply can't listen to that song anymore. I've heard it a million times from every bagpipe player both great and terrible warming up.
Don't feel alone Buddahaid, I can't listen to it either - heard it too many times.

The most beautiful voiced woman in the world wouldn't help and as for bagpipes, can't bagpipes be tuned?? ..... I doubt that would help. : )

[August]

I simply can't listen to that song anymore. I've heard it a million times from every bagpipe player both great and terrible warming up.

Check out this bag pipe player. Flame shooting pipes playing AC/DC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgzZLNwqvdQ

[August]

...the second half is dry, tasteless and brittle, and keeps on getting smaller and smaaller and... smaaaller... until... all gone!


Two words: Sugar Cones. :)

http://icecreamjournal.turkeyhill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/photo1.jpg

[fireftr18]

I simply can't listen to that song anymore. I've heard it a million times from every bagpipe player both great and terrible warming up.

I have a rough time with it myself. Too many fire fighter and police officer funerals.

[Mr Quatro]

Thanks Steve to getting back to what we think ... :D

I think there is a check in desk and you get to find out where you can be used in the battle for what we think.

the bible says that for each one of us there is an appointed time to die and then comes the judgement, but what if it is an untimed event, a wreck, a drunk driver, a plane accident, stray bullets, etc?

God gave the Hebrew children a promise that in that day (meaning the days ahead promise of peace) that they would have no former memory of they were. I don't believe in reincarnation, but I do believe in Gods mercy.

Todays Israel may very well be full of people (the ones in WWII come to mind) that have no former memory of they were, but live a life waiting for the promised one, their messiah.

I like Pistachio and Rocky Road together at the same time so I can go from one taste to the other ... :yep:

[Eichhörnchen]

Something we're forgetting about in all this: ZOMBIES... what about them?

Minty ice cream is nice, too.

[Commander Wallace]

I have a rough time with it myself. Too many fire fighter and police officer funerals.

I never thought about that one. That would be pretty rough.

[Commander Wallace]

Thanks Steve to getting back to what we think ... :D

I think there is a check in desk and you get to find out where you can be used in the battle for what we think.

the bible says that for each one of us there is an appointed time to die and then comes the judgement, but what if it is an untimed event, a wreck, a drunk driver, a plane accident, stray bullets, etc?

God gave the Hebrew children a promise that in that day (meaning the days ahead promise of peace) that they would have no former memory of they were. I don't believe in reincarnation, but I do believe in Gods mercy.

Todays Israel may very well be full of people (the ones in WWII come to mind) that have no former memory of they were, but live a life waiting for the promised one, their messiah.

I like Pistachio and Rocky Road together at the same time so I can go from one taste to the other ... :yep:

I agree with you. I have been involved with health care settings and have seen some things that I didn't even try to explain. I simply accepted it.

As far as reincarnation, I just know I don't want to come back as one of Eichhörnchen's squirrels in his pictures. :03:

[Sailor Steve]

the bible says that for each one of us there is an appointed time to die and then comes the judgement, but what if it is an untimed event, a wreck, a drunk driver, a plane accident, stray bullets, etc?
If the Bible is correct in that, then the time is appointed anyway. Somebody forgot to tell you, is all.

If, on the other hand, there is no one doing the appointing, then everything is random and it probably doesn't matter anyway.

What happens when I die? I have no idea, and I don't think anyone else does either. But then I'm not sure of what I know, so somebody may know something I don't. Well, lots of people know stuff I don't, but we're just talking about this one thing, and I've seen no real evidence so far.

[vienna]

What happens when I die? I have no idea, and I don't think anyone else does either. But then I'm not sure of what I know, so somebody may know something I don't. Well, lots of people know stuff I don't, but we're just talking about this one thing, and I've seen no real evidence so far.

It's probably best you don't know: I've heard a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but I don't know about that...




<O>

[Platapus]

What happens to a candle flame when you blow it out? The flame does not "go anywhere", it just ceases to exist.

I think the same would apply to us.

Life is a continuing process, not a state of being. When that process is stopped, the entity ceases to exist. Only the physical form remains and even that goes away of we let nature take its course.

At least that's my opinion on the matter.

[mapuc]

Let say you are unlucky in a car accident and die and are dead for about 10 minutes then relived by the paramedics

After this "even" you tell people what you saw, when dead

Here are my question

Who will believe you and who will not ?

I know it depends on what you saw
Seeing a bright light, not seeing a bright light a.s.o

Markus

[Buddahaid]

How do you define human death? That question should surely be as complicated as defining human life which ranges from conception to birth depending on one's views.

[mapuc]

How do you define human death? That question should surely be as complicated as defining human life which ranges from conception to birth depending on one's views.

That is a very good question what is death ?

Is it when a person heart stop to beating ?

Is it when a person is braindead ?

I remember the discussion we had in Sweden in the mid eighties about definition of death. Before this change a person wasn't dead before his or her heart had stopped beating, braindead was not defined as dead and the doctors could not take organ from this patient.

So not remembering all of it I only remember what I thought

Could it be that a persons brain start a "dream" when his or her heart have stopped working and this dream is what they think they experienced while dead ?

Markus

[Eichhörnchen]

One form of human death can be when a stand-up comic is dying on his arse during his act. Last week on the radio I heard about the perfect heckle used on a comic who was struggling: he called out "Can everyone hear me at the back?" And this guy shouted back: "Yes, but I'll be happy to change places with somebody who can't"

[vienna]

There have been many claimed cases of persons "dying" in some sort of way, most often during some medical procedure (surgery, CPR, etc.) and there have been a wide variety of claimed "post-death" experiences. What has intrigued me about the vast majority of those reported experiences is how closely and neatly they dovetail with the reporting persons religious and/or philosophical beliefs; you almost never hear of someone coming back from "death" and waking up and saying "Wow, I and my belief system/religion are totally wrong!!"; is it possible the perceived experiences are nothing more than a situation akin to what a great many people have experienced many times when, having been exposed to an intense stimulus like a personal event, a movie, or some other sort of input, they will often incorporate elements of that exposure in their dream state during sleep? How often have you had a dream where parts of some event or situation have been replayed in your dreams? Isn't it possible a lot of those "afterlife" experiences are colored by lifelong religious or philosophical training or indoctrination and the resulting "afterlife" may be nothing more than the brain trying to adapt its perceptions to an existing framework, a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? Basically, if you expect angels and St. Peter, you get angels and St. Peter; if you expect all your dead relatives meeting you on a long road, you get all your dead relatives meeting you on a long road; if you expect to be walking into a bright light, you get a bright light to walk into; if you expect a void, one void coming up! Whatever your particularly inculcated beliefs is what you end up with...



<O>

[mapuc]

There have been many claimed cases of persons "dying" in some sort of way, most often during some medical procedure (surgery, CPR, etc.) and there have been a wide variety of claimed "post-death" experiences. What has intrigued me about the vast majority of those reported experiences is how closely and neatly they dovetail with the reporting persons religious and/or philosophical beliefs; you almost never hear of someone coming back from "death" and waking up and saying "Wow, I and my belief system/religion are totally wrong!!"; is it possible the perceived experiences are nothing more than a situation akin to what a great many people have experienced many times when, having been exposed to an intense stimulus like a personal event, a movie, or some other sort of input, they will often incorporate elements of that exposure in their dream state during sleep? How often have you had a dream where parts of some event or situation have been replayed in your dreams? Isn't it possible a lot of those "afterlife" experiences are colored by lifelong religious or philosophical training or indoctrination and the resulting "afterlife" may be nothing more than the brain trying to adapt its perceptions to an existing framework, a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? Basically, if you expect angels and St. Peter, you get angels and St. Peter; if you expect all your dead relatives meeting you on a long road, you get all your dead relatives meeting you on a long road; if you expect to be walking into a bright light, you get a bright light to walk into; if you expect a void, one void coming up! Whatever your particularly inculcated beliefs is what you end up with...



<O>

You have said the things I have been saying in some of my statement in this thread. I have taken it from what I have read, seen and heard expert said about these things.

psychologists and other scholars in this field say or believe a person start to dream when he or she is in a state of death

And as I wrote in my first post here in this thread
A group of scientist from Sweden, England and some other countries made a survey, where they asked people who had been dead, what they saw while being dead.

A person saw a bright ligt and man with beard another person, who was from India saw a figure with many arms(or something like that)

Markus

[u crank]

Like I said only the dead know for sure what happens after we die.

Hmm maybe so, maybe not. If in fact when we die, brain activity ceases, consciousness ends and we have no 'spirit' or 'soul' then we will not actually know that we are dead.

Which I'm gonna say is a good thing.:D

[vienna]

A couple of decades ago, I was at a gathering where I was introduced to a Protestant minister (I forget the specific denomination) who was a fan of Star Trek. I know a bit about the shows and films but I am not as knowledgeable as the true fans. We got into a discussion of souls and I made the comment the existence of a human soul could possibly be proven by a transporter such as used on Star Trek. "How so?", he asked and I explained: the principle of the transporter is to 'disassemble' whatever is being transported to molecular level, or less, transport it on a carrier wave of some sort, and 'reassemble' the transported object at its destination. If a human were transported safely, and, most importantly, alive and intact, then you have one conclusion: the life force in humans, known as a soul, is a purely bio-chemical/electric phenomenon and is not external to individual human existence; if it were external and not of a molecular composition, a spirit, then it could not be transported; the soul would cease when the 'host' body ceases...

We discussed this for some time, but the question is moot since I really doubt there will never be a capability of transporting a human being; if a soul does exist, and is external to our physical existence, capable of existing without its 'host' in an afterlife, it is incorporeal and cannot be transported physically simultaneously with its 'host'; what would come out at the other end of the operation would be inert, devoid of its life force since it couldn't come along for the ride...

Maybe consciousness or sentience is closer to what some of the Eastern beliefs hold, that we are a part of a larger whole and, when our physical existence ends, we are just melded into the larger pool, not individual but ta part of the larger existence...



<O>

[Commander Wallace]

One form of human death can be when a stand-up comic is dying on his arse during his act. Last week on the radio I heard about the perfect heckle used on a comic who was struggling: he called out "Can everyone hear me at the back?" And this guy shouted back: "Yes, but I'll be happy to change places with somebody who can't"

:haha:

[Platapus]

That is a very good question what is death ?

....

Is it when a person is braindead ?

....

Markus

I offer up congress as a test case that refutes this hypothesis.

[Jimbuna]

One definite from me....you stop breathing.

[STEED]

You loose all control over your body fluids.

[Buddahaid]

But an embryo doesn't breath either and people can be sustained on ventiltors.

[Aktungbby]

One definite from me....you stop breathing.
Nope: Not definite: could be apnea:D two of my techs and one employer all wore masks at night and were grossly overweight. Eventually ...it became definite!:timeout: https://tpc.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CICAgKCz2LfQbhABGAEyCLiWeWW-qVe2 (https://adclick.g.doubleclick.net/pcs/click%253Fxai%253DAKAOjssAlf96uEUYzEht3E0gePE28I6B bPfqXuuKvqFDeXQiJSpnW8AHB1NVPjnCpeN4hZQ8idQiEUlx_n Flg232yH7H-Ar8ELwTRchJJcWZOA9DhDATidUteBau65RgJGRazK0s1_fWi23 e-AnZ4Q26lyiPsEG1c0o4R7W8YpQc6M9BvGULMAVJ-1qWCfVBSX8hQKHjeyKBIJrdb8njAvmrszOKvwFNkDbBLV8-LU2G3RjW35PS%2526sig%253DCg0ArKJSzAhJMt9rGIg4EAE%2 526urlfix%253D1%2526adurl%253Dhttp://www.sleepapnea.com/dream)http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/sleep-apnea/sleep-apnea (http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/sleep-apnea/sleep-apnea)

[u crank]

That is a very good question what is death ?


I think the simple answer is when all biological functions cease. Some functions like heart can stop and be restarted but there is a point of no return obviously. When all functions reach that point, you are dead....unless you're Jon Snow.:O:

[mapuc]

I offer up congress as a test case that refutes this hypothesis.

You know what, when I wrote those words I was thinking, someone is going to use this about their countries politicians

Markus

[Platapus]

You know what, when I wrote those words I was thinking, someone is going to use this about their countries politicians

Markus


I think it may be one of the few universalities in the world. We all despise our various legislative bodies. :D

[Von Due]

I think it may be one of the few universalities in the world. We all despise our various legislative bodies. :D

I love them all. After Spitting Image and Not The Nine O'Clock News called it a day, after The Onion fired all their satirists, after Monty Python was long gone, they are the only satire left.

[Jimbuna]

Nope: Not definite: could be apnea:D two of my techs and one employer all wore masks at night and were grossly overweight. Eventually ...it became definite!:timeout:

Nope, despite attending many fatal injury traffic incidents, murder scenes, sudden deaths etc. etc. over the years I don't recall ever seeing a corpse that was breathing :hmmm:

[mapuc]

Nope, despite attending many fatal injury traffic incidents, murder scenes, sudden deaths etc. etc. over the years I don't recall ever seeing a corpse that was breathing :hmmm:

As a person who have a very little knowledge about a persons body I can tell you a dead person do breath-not as we do-but in dosis and it can do so up to several hours after the person has died-it is the air from his or her stomach that are going out-either through the mouth or back.

Markus

[Platapus]

As an IEMT, i was limited in my ability to declare someone dead. And for very good reason. Technically, I could never declare someone dead, but I could decide not to provide ALS support in only three situations. Naturally these rules may change between states. This is how we worked in Nebraska. I think our Paramedics could make the call, but IEMTs could not.

1. Decapitation
2. Gross thoracic trauma - followed by some pretty graphic definitions. Think heart over here and lungs over there type of trauma.
3. Advanced Decomposition over entire body

That was it. It is a pretty good list as it is highly unlikely anyone would recover from being in this state. Note that there is no mention of breathing or heart beat.

You really don't want EMTs to start declaring people dead. :nope:

This is why I had to start CPR on a person who was reported as having stopped breathing 45 minutes ago.

That is why we always start CPR in child drowning cases. :yep:

[Garion]

Nope, despite attending many fatal injury traffic incidents, murder scenes, sudden deaths etc. etc. over the years I don't recall ever seeing a corpse that was breathing :hmmm:

Me neither but By the Gods they can fart......:arrgh!:

Like Jim seen lots of 'bed doddies', probably too many :stare:

Cheers

gary

[Betonov]

1. Decapitation
2. Gross thoracic trauma - followed by some pretty graphic definitions. Think heart over here and lungs over there type of trauma.
3. Advanced Decomposition over entire body



In the red cross we called those ''injuries incompatable with life''

[Jonesy]

I think life ends kind of like the Sopranos did...it just goes to black.

[aanker]

I'm asked if I have a 'living will' (a DNR ) My answer is, 'no, I want 'heroic measures'.

I've been revived at least three times - twice during surgical procedures and once while heading out the door after being discharged after a weeks stay for Sepsis.

The transport people asked my daughter what she wanted them to do and she answered, "he wants to live" - so into the ER we went. That was 10 years ago : )

[Rockstar]

There have been many claimed cases of persons "dying" in some sort of way, most often during some medical procedure (surgery, CPR, etc.) and there have been a wide variety of claimed "post-death" experiences. What has intrigued me about the vast majority of those reported experiences is how closely and neatly they dovetail with the reporting persons religious and/or philosophical beliefs; you almost never hear of someone coming back from "death" and waking up and saying "Wow, I and my belief system/religion are totally wrong!!"; is it possible the perceived experiences are nothing more than a situation akin to what a great many people have experienced many times when, having been exposed to an intense stimulus like a personal event, a movie, or some other sort of input, they will often incorporate elements of that exposure in their dream state during sleep? How often have you had a dream where parts of some event or situation have been replayed in your dreams? Isn't it possible a lot of those "afterlife" experiences are colored by lifelong religious or philosophical training or indoctrination and the resulting "afterlife" may be nothing more than the brain trying to adapt its perceptions to an existing framework, a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? Basically, if you expect angels and St. Peter, you get angels and St. Peter; if you expect all your dead relatives meeting you on a long road, you get all your dead relatives meeting you on a long road; if you expect to be walking into a bright light, you get a bright light to walk into; if you expect a void, one void coming up! Whatever your particularly inculcated beliefs is what you end up with...



<O>


What if our afterlife reality is formed based upon what we think it will bring today? Some think they will go live with Jesus, others will see their relatives, nirvana etc etc. Then there are those who think there is no life after they die and they will simply cease to exist. :hmm2:

[Eichhörnchen]

The brain is well understood to release 'protective' chemicals, endorphins etc in times of stress of one kind or another. These, I've heard, can be very powerful painkillers, hallucinogens and suchlike and, as such, might certainly be expected to affect the experience of death, in whatever way it occurred.

That's my two penneth, except to say again that I expect to find nothing but oblivion after death, much as I'd love to find Paradise instead...

[Mr Quatro]

We know that some things can live after death, the heart, the lungs, the liver, the eyes ... if controlled by the surgeons and placed in another warm body that is :yep:

I have not signed that wavier on my DI yet though that they can have my left overs. What if they harvest body parts for profit or something like they do in some foreign countries?

[Sailor Steve]

I signed an organ donor card more than forty years ago. I recently signed it right on my drivers license. Problem is that at my age nobody wants them anymore.

What if they harvest body parts for profit or something like they do in some foreign countries?
If they're gonna do that, they'll do it whether you sign or not.

[vienna]

I'm a donor also and I have also wondered about just how much of me, at my current age, 65, or if I live to be older, would be of use for harvesting. Since I have no family at all and I rather expect to just quietly disappear from the general consciousness, I have been mulling over the possibility of also giving the option of donating my remains for medical use, e.g., med school cadaver, etc. If there is no use for my remains, then just cremate them and dispose of them as expeditiously as possible...



<O>

[Platapus]

That's my two penneth, except to say again that I expect to find nothing but oblivion after death, much as I'd love to find Paradise instead...

I really hope you are wrong. I hope that at least we will still have Skyrim.

[vienna]

The brain is well understood to release 'protective' chemicals, endorphins etc in times of stress of one kind or another. These, I've heard, can be very powerful painkillers, hallucinogens and suchlike and, as such, might certainly be expected to affect the experience of death, in whatever way it occurred.

That's my two penneth, except to say again that I expect to find nothing but oblivion after death, much as I'd love to find Paradise instead...

Your post brought to mind an incident in my childhood. When I was about 8 years old, I contracted a very severe case of the measles, with a raging fever. I was so out of it all, I apparently began to hallucinate; I only have a vague memory of the event, but I do recall seeing bright lights coming from points in the middle of my room, suspended in mid air; they were like the sort of light you see when a light source is reflected off a mirror. I also remember they seemed almost tangible, as if I could actually grab and hold on to the beams, which, according to my mother and my doctor I was trying to do. My mother, who was very religious, in her own way, and very superstitious, took the event as some sort of sign or omen; I never bought into that idea and, when the memory comes around at odd times, I still kind of wonder what the cause of the event might have been. Perhaps I was engaging in a pre-psychedelic era trip brought on by those protective chemicals you mentioned...



<O>

[STEED]

Life is a Bitch then you die then you come back to life so life can be a Bitch to you all over again.

[Jimbuna]

Thank you for that Victor, most insightful :know:

[STEED]

Thank you for that Victor, most insightful :know:

No charge. :)

[Jimbuna]

No charge. :)

No gain.