Clever Escorts

[mcgmike]

Hi all, :up:
I've been sailing these forums for a few months ( without posting ) and playing SHIII for less. I'm on my 23 patrol ( 50% realism ) now and have been constantly peppered with depth charges by convoy escorts. The thing I can't understand is these damn escorts dropping their load on me at exactly the depth I am at, whether I go shallow or deep. So far I have been able to survive through manovering ( only just and taking a lot of damage).
I was sure that during WWII the ASDIC could only pick out the direction and distance of the sub. ( Right or wrong, I'm not sure )
I'm interested to know if anyone else met these damn fine sailors on tehse escorts or have they all congregated inside my PC. :hmm: I know I'm not a great boat driver, but damn it's frustrating.
:damn:

[Floater]

Hi all, :up:
I've been sailing these forums for a few months ( without posting ) and playing SHIII for less. I'm on my 23 patrol ( 50% realism ) now and have been constantly peppered with depth charges by convoy escorts. The thing I can't understand is these damn escorts dropping their load on me at exactly the depth I am at, whether I go shallow or deep. So far I have been able to survive through manovering ( only just and taking a lot of damage).
I was sure that during WWII the ASDIC could only pick out the direction and distance of the sub. ( Right or wrong, I'm not sure )
I'm interested to know if anyone else met these damn fine sailors on tehse escorts or have they all congregated inside my PC. :hmm: I know I'm not a great boat driver, but damn it's frustrating.
:damn:
They had a good idea of your depth too, later in the war. I forget exactly how, but they could get your direction (easiest), range (next easiest) and depth (clever bar-stewards).

And that's in real life. It's worth noting that one of the worst fears of SH3 players has been realised: uber-DDs. Ones that can pick up your sonar trace even while depth-charges are exploding and they're heading away from you at high speed with a big merchant in-between you and them. Supernatural, they are.

For SH3, the only tactic is to remain very deep and silent and slow, and just keep turning in the hope that you'll be missed. Not at all realistic, but hey. It's a game.

[greywulfe]

I am playing using IUB 1.01

On the contrary, I find the AI too easy. I am in 1943 (March) and only now did the destroyers post a real challenge to me (81% realism). Most of the time after my attack, I moved under the convoy and was able to escape with barely a ping in my direction.

This last engagement was more challenging as 3 destroyers hunted me at once, and the convoy had already passed me and I was in open water.

The key is to stay deep and listen for depth charges. Increase your speed and change direction immediatly to avoid damage. Launch decoys at this time as well (but as of 1943, the first BOLD doesn't seem to be as effective). I try not to go too deep, and I would like some breathing room in case of a lucky hit.

[Floater]

I've no experience in modding - I'm planning to try UIB in my next career - but I've found that you can be in 1941 and still run up against the occasional (Elite?) super-corvette (more likely than a super-DD, since they change speed and heading more quickly).

I'm playing with the external cam enabled, and I use it, and I'm watching what those guys do. One firm, and rather sad, conclusion is that their sonar and hydrophone system isn't at all affected by depth-charge explosions. Your boat might be rocking from side to side from recent nearby detonations, but somehow the enemy can still pick up your faint propeller traces. In real life, you'd maybe use that window of sonar blindness to sprint in a different direction, hoping that the attacker would turn the other way. Not advisable in SH3.

Running under other ships doesn't seem to work either, unless the collision detection kicks in. IOW, they can hear you, but they don't want to bash into that coastal merchant that's in the way, so they change speed and course, which might look as if they've lost your trace.

As yet, I'm unsure about the baffles thing. Sometimes, you can do what you want when you're behind the DD/whatever, and you're not picked up. Other times, they can hear you pretty well, and will make course adjustments depending on your (flank) movements, even though you're behind them.

You can sometimes write your name with their wake by changing course and speed, even while the DCs are exploding and they're travelling quickly away from you. Starforce aside, that's the most annoying part of SH3 for me.

Then again, I'm still playing the game, so who am I to complain?

[HW3]

It is known that the escorts sensors are way too uber in SHIII. Jungman made a sensor pack that corrects this along with the snorkel signature and RF detection. It can be found at U-boot,Realsimulation.com.

[Dowly]

Jusy keep your head down, silent run and maneuver alot!

Too bad the "Go to the bottom and wait" doesnt work, I tried it with aircraft(!) and it dropped it´s load right where I was. :(

[mcgmike]

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately there will be no Patrol 24. I zigged when I should have zagged and did'nt get deep enough quick enough. They ganged up on me. :damn:

[Hartmann]

The destroyers know the deep of the sub because the asdic transceptor emits down in a determinate angle, when the sub echo dissapears means that is crossing the angle line.

i remember a destroyer command mod for the sonar active screen that makes it, with a scale yo can know what depht you have to set the depth charges or the distance.

[Wiking]

I have met those superüber escorts twice.
Both time they killed me,there was no way to escape(
and I'm using that Jungmans sensor mod.)
Both time the weather was calm, wind 0 m/s.

Maybe that has something to do with it, maybe not.
But in rougher weathers I have always managed to get away.



PS My first post here, hello to all Kaleuns around the world.



:up:

[oscar19681]

I never had any difficuly with DD,s . Now in 1944 i still get the same thing . Most of the times when i go under 100 m its by by destroyers! they never hit me under 100 meters

[oscar19681]

I never had any difficuly with DD,s . Now in 1944 i still get the same thing . Most of the times when i go under 100 m and do some silent running and its by by destroyers! they never hit me under 100 meters

[The Avon Lady]

I never had any difficuly with DD,s . Now in 1944 i still get the same thing . Most of the times when i go under 100 m and do some silent running and its by by destroyers! they never hit me under 100 meters
Same here, even without silent running.

But when they start ganging up in 3's and 4's, you really have to start worrying.

[CB..]

i think Wiking is right about the weather effecting the DD's sonar/hydrophones etc--

this may in help balance out the lack of "dead" time after Dc drops (dunno about the baffles blind spot-i can't make up my mind wether it's there or not )
anyhuw here's some entrys from the sim.cfg file which show perhaps how the height of the waves (ie weather) may influence the effetiveness of the DD's detection gubbins--

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=1 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.4 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Noise factor=0.8 ;[>=0]

[Sonar]
Detection time=20 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.03 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=0.5 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=20 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=200 ;[m2]
Lose time=30


these show a small mod by me to try to wake them up a bit--prior to 1943 they are allmost a waste of space in anything other than dead calm--

i lowered the waves factor and the noise (background noise?--baffles?--general masking effect/sound of the sea? etc)
for the hydrophones
if your having the opposite problem i recommend decreasing the speed factor for both sensors --as this should mean that the sensor become "dead" at anything above that speed (in knots)
which makes the DDs work a lot harder to keep tabs on you (in theory)

quite a lot to experiment with there-- detection time (the amont of time needed for a contact to be confirmed--very effective way to affect DD perfromance)
allso means you can effect the passive sonar and the active sonar seperately make one uber and the other crap for interesting results--

[Highbury]

The destroyers know the deep of the sub because the asdic transceptor emits down in a determinate angle, when the sub echo dissapears means that is crossing the angle line.

Close to the truth but it was very difficult based on the information recieved on just one ASDIC set to truly pinpoint a u-boat. if two destroyers get a positive ping on you it becomes easier for them, with three they can all triangualte your position with good accuracy.

How this actually works in the game I have no idea but I think it has been modelled fairly well. I have been detected and pinged by 1 destroyer and gotten away easily.

In these cases that ppl are talking about, were you ever hunted down and killed, early war, by 1 destroyer? If it is 3+ working you over then I say the game is working ok. Just my opinion.

[Ducimus]

[quote=Hartmann]
In these cases that ppl are talking about, were you ever hunted down and killed, early war, by 1 destroyer? If it is 3+ working you over then I say the game is working ok. Just my opinion.


From what i understand late war this was the ASW proceedure.

3 or more escorts form a circle around you. One would stop and listen, another would ping, another with the information from the other two would do a run. They'd take turns at it.

This seems to be how the game works. If you have the external cam enabled you can watch them do it. One will be dead stopped listening. Another will try echo ranging.. (but which one?!), another will be setting up for a run.

And therein lies the problem with manuevering, which direction do you point your sub to minmize the surface you present to return a ping? If they were persistant, they could wait you out tell lack of amps ore oxygen forced you to surface. The game however isnt that persistant from what ive seen. Diving deep and creeping along at 1 knot seems to do the trick.

[R1fl3M4n]

right i know the procedure i have seen it !!i was playng and sudenly i run into 3 destroyers... i waited and 1 stoped completely 1 circle and 1 was on my run!;) :up: