View Full Version : New to the game - nothing much seems to happen?
I'm new to SH3 and really enjoying it but am finding that I don't get very much action on my patrols. I love realism in my games so I have it set to 100% and am using RuB 1.44.
I will go on patrols to my designated patrol zone, patrol it for 24 hours as requested and then head straight back to base, as that's all I am able to do given the small range of the starting sub - type IIA (I've been quite close to running out of fuel on a number of occasions).
The problem is that I don't seem to be running into many enemy ships. It seems I might find one cargo or merchant on the way home if i'm lucky or some of the time, none at all.
Anyway, my question is, do rendezvous with the enemy become a bit more frequent later in the game as the war hots up a bit? Or is it just a case that because of the short range of the type IIA that i'm just not covering enough sea to be actively engaging enemies on a regular basis.
I should add that I always have a WO while surfaced and a sonar operator while submerged.
rulle34
11-08-05, 05:51 PM
I'm new to SH3 and really enjoying it but am finding that I don't get very much action on my patrols. I love realism in my games so I have it set to 100% and am using RuB 1.44.
I will go on patrols to my designated patrol zone, patrol it for 24 hours as requested and then head straight back to base, as that's all I am able to do given the small range of the starting sub - type IIA (I've been quite close to running out of fuel on a number of occasions).
The problem is that I don't seem to be running into many enemy ships. It seems I might find one cargo or merchant on the way home if i'm lucky or some of the time, none at all.
Anyway, my question is, do rendezvous with the enemy become a bit more frequent later in the game as the war hots up a bit? Or is it just a case that because of the short range of the type IIA that i'm just not covering enough sea to be actively engaging enemies on a regular basis.
I should add that I always have a WO while surfaced and a sonar operator while submerged.
I guess that you mostley operate in North sea with your IIA and there is not so much more traffic than you have mensioned above. Using VII uboats takes you off the British west coast and there you mostley run into convoys if you keep yourself in the convoylanes (see attached SH 3 map with convoy routes). About having a sonarman doesn't mean that you will have all sonarcontacts reported. Only the one who is relatively close will be reported. A good tactic is to stay in the convoy lanes and regularly dive to about 60 m and man your sonar youself. If you catch up a faint sound you can close up to that sound and finally classifiy it. You'll also notice that you are quite close when your sonarman starts to report the same sound you have followed for quite a while.
Good luck :up:
Highbury
11-08-05, 06:52 PM
Also keep your speed low in the IIA while en-route to your PA. I have left Kiel, patrolled AN84 (Near the eastern channel mouth), then nipped up to Scapa Flow with my remaining fish to hit the Revenge class BB that is always there in Oct 39, then made it back to Kiel. I was running close to empty but was able to make it.
Range goes down drastically with your speed, just remember to keep it slow unless needed.
*Edit ~ Just noticed you refer to the IIA as 'the starting sub'. if you pick 2nd or 7th Flotilla you will get a shiny new VII to start off in.
Thanks for the input.
Yes, I started in the 1st flotilla as I figured the most basic sub was the best to start with and that I would appreciate the more modern subs if I earnt them (so to speak). I will save up my reknown and upgrade soon I hope. In the meantime I will just have to be patient while at sea and hope to come across some more ships.
In regard to how your speed relates to how much fuel you use, I was fiddling around with it while asking my navigator the maximum range at this speed. The results were constantly changing but it seemed that running at 'standard' got the highest range response from him. Having said that I have read that running at the slowest speed will get you the furthest?
Is this the case? and does it apply to your battery also?
Highbury
11-08-05, 07:10 PM
Your range only refers to the deisel engines. Hypothetically if you used no fatigue you could only stay surfaced until the batteries are charged, dive and travel submerged until they are depleted, repeat.
That said, I would not recommend doing this for many reasons, fatigue, dead batteries at a bad time etc.
Yes, I try to make the most of the batteries to save fuel, but sometimes wonder wether it's worth it as the boat will travel at a slower speed while recharging the batteries, effectively reducing it's range?
Well I've got a few response of my own to your questions.
About range, ahead slow gives you by far the most range. It sucks putting around at 5 knots, but it sucks more not having enough fuel to intercept that fat merchant you've been tracking for an hour.
About detecting merchants - Don't rely solely on your watch crew. They can see up to around 7km or so on a perfectly clear day, and much much less when the weather is bad and at night. With the hydrophone, however, if you're manually listening with it you can hear targets up to 20km away. If you don't do it manually, and rely on your hydrophone operator, he will only start calling out contacts when they are around 10km away. Naturally, what you want to do is learn how to use the hydrophone yourself. It's not difficult, if you click on the FAQ thread on this site it will point you in the right direction.
Once you start using that thing at regular intervals, you won't have much trouble finding ships anymore. I go to about 20 m depth every hour and a half or so and have a listen. I average 1 contact every 8-10 hours if I'm near the east coast of England. If you're looking for high traffic areas, hang out near the ports of England or NE of the Channel (don't get too close, there are lots of destroyers.) Once you're in a high traffic area, just submerge every now and then and listen, or you may just want to stay submerged if you know you're in a good spot. No sense in burning fuel if you know you're in a good spot. Just remember, if the contact you hear has fast-moving screws, don't bother chasing it around. It's probably a destroyer. You'll get experience eventually and you'll love the hydrophone. You can get good enough with it that by the time you finally see the target you've been tracking for a while, you're submerged and right in his path, just waiting for him to cruise in front of you so you can nail him.
Thanks for that, it's some good advice.
I think that has been my problem, I have been relying on the WO and hydrophone operator for all my contacts.
I will also try using the slow speed to conserve some more fuel.
:ping:
I use to stay submerged all day and recharge at night relying on my hydrophones. Then I read somewhere that real U-Boat tactics would be to run surfaced and submerge briefly every four hours, listen, then surface and continue on your patrol (or go chase after the contact you just heard). So now I submerge every four hours for 15-20 minutes and just sit at a dead stop and listen (or I let my SO do it).
If you do hear a ship: Set course to the bearing your SO tells you. Then it's flank speed (surfaced) until you run into him. Chase the contact surfaced for awhile. Iit kind of depends on the situation how long you stay surface and on the chase. It also might take several tries of submerging, listening, course corrections and chasing until you find your pray (or not).
BTW: Make it a practice to look around before you surface (not so much when you are chasing a contact since your only submerged for a few minutes). I Actually had a DD sneak up behind me where I wasn't looking (or couldn't hear him). The SOB rammed me :) When I get lazy I just go to the crew managment screen and raise my periscope for about five minutes. Your TC will drop down to 8 if there is something up there. I haven't been spotted yet doing it either. (It's risky).
Good Hunting!
Ok so I think that will help me to find ships, now if I can only learn to hit something ;)
I have it set to 100% realism so am doing all the calculations myself, but I find that i'm not getting many hits (understatement) so I musn't be entering the correct data.
I find that the range meter is inaccurate in anything less than glasslike seas, as it's quite hard to line it up properly with the height of the mast while you are bobbing all over the place. That being the case, I generally get the WO to give me a the range by asking him to report and I guess the speed by working off my own. Needless to say, that's not ideal.
The problem with that is that the range seems to be one of the most important factors in your torpedo calculations as it effects the other data, like speed.
Also, it seems the only way I seem to be able to identify ships is by getting up so close that I can see the flag it's flying. :huh:
I guess like anything it takes time and i'll eventually be able to recognise them from further off, with a little help from the ship recognition manual.
kiwi_2005
11-08-05, 09:17 PM
start up a second career around 1943 choose a VIIC (faster diving, you'll need it) then maybe take a cruise down the channel... on the surface :)
If you're having trouble with manual targeting, it's normal at first. It seems very hard when you first start doing it, then it gets easy. You're right about the range being so critical if you're doing it with the notepad. In order for speed to be correct using the notepad method, range and AOB have to be pretty accurate. That's why I use a couple simple methods for getting AOB and speed myself.
For speed, I mainly use two methods and compare them to eachother, they are usually very close. The first method is most accurate when the target isn't pointed at you, like when its AOB is 40 or greater. You'll see why. What you do is, once you recognize the ship (which will become very easy as you play more, since most of the ships you encounter are either C2, coastal merchant or small merchant.) Once you ID it, find its length. Then, wait till the ship's bow crosses your periscope crosshair and start the stopwatch. Once its stern crosses the crosshair, hit the stopwatch again. Now you know that it has travelled its length in a certain amount of time. Say its length is 120m, and it took 30 seconds to travel that length. That gives you 4 meters per second. Since 1 knot = .514 m/s,you can either divide 4 by .514 or you can just multiply it by two and it will be close enough. In this case, it would be moving about 8 knots. You can then enter it into your TDC manually and not have to worry about it anymore.
The second method is easy too. You have to listen to your target's screw on the hydrophones, and count how many full revolutions it makes in one minute. That gives you its RPM. Then look that RPM up on this chart:
http://subsim.com/subsim_files/patches05/sound_trainer.zip
You then match up the ship type with the RPM you counted to get speed. Like I said, this method and the first method I mention usually give very close results.
Now for the easy way to get AOB. First off, point yourself roughly at a perpendicular course to his, it doesn't have to be perfect, just rough it. This is so that once we have our solution for our TDC, the gyro angle will be low when we decide it's time to launch. Now, to actually get the AOB, check out the recognition chart, and click on the top button that shows you the ship from different angles. Hopefully at this point the ship is still a good ways off and has a low AOB. Look at the 20 degree AOB picture, study it. Look at the position of the masts in relation to the superstructure of the target. Usually, one of the masts will be in an easy to recognize position, like almost to the edge of the superstructure, or maybe just a little bit past it. Then look at the ship, and wait until it has moved to a point that its mast is in the same position as the picture in the recognition chart. Once it is, leave your periscope pointed directly at that spot where it was when it matched the picture (don't lock it, just leave it at the right spot). Then manually make the AOB in the TDC 20 degrees, either port or starboard depending on your situation.) Then put the TDC back in automatic mode. Now, when you swivel your periscope around, the TDC will automatically update the AOB depending on where you are looking, so you don't have to jack with it anymore. You can move forwards and backwards and still not have to mess with the TDC, it will still be accurate. As long as you don't change course you will not have to update the AOB again.
Now you have the AOB entered to within 1-2 degrees of accuracy. If you don't have speed yet, get it once the target gets to a good position to read it accurately (or use the RPM method.) With those two out of the way, you can now twiddle your thumbs until the target gets close to the point that you plan on launching. What I do is get one last range with the stadimeter (it will be more accurate since the target is so close now). Once I put the final range estimate in by clicking on the checkmark, I swivel my periscope to the point that the gyroangle is 000. This way the torpedo doesn't have to change its course, and it eliminates any error that might be introduced that way. Once the ship crosses that point, I launch, usually aiming for the fuel bunker or engine room, and it's almost always a one shot-one kill. Make sure your tube is open by this time of course.
Nice work! :up:
Thanks for taking the time to type that out. I'll print it off so I have is as a reference next to me next time I play.
No problem. I won't type another novel this time, I think I gave you enough reading material for a bit, but I think you'll like this too:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=30811&start=0
Once you're on a roughly perpendicular course and waiting on him to approach, use this table to know whether you need to move forwards or backwards to be at a good range.
No problem. I won't type another novel this time,
Nah, it's all good, the more detail the better :yep:
One thing I did find interesting while reading the documentation that came with the sound training file, was the method that uses the hydrophone while waiting for the enemy to pass a certain bearing, before firing a torp set to:
target speed = 0, target course = 0, target gyro-angle = 0 etc etc, effectively firing it straight ahead and letting the ship run into it.
It's written there that range doesn't matter for this method but I can't quite get my head around that. :doh:
At first that sounded like a good idea, but it's one big advantage is cancelled out by its one big disadvantage. The advantage - you can fire a torpedo just based on sound. The disadvantage - you have to visually ID the target in order to know how fast it is going. If you can visually ID it, why bother using that method? You can get much more accurate info visually, and if your info is accurate, you can aim for the more vulnerable parts of the ship instead of just randomly hitting it. Not to mention the fact that the method requires you to be on an exactly perpendicular course to the target. You have to do a fair amount of calculation to get on a perfectly perpendicular course, and if you've done all that work, you're pretty much ready for a visual shot anyway.
Marhkimov
11-09-05, 12:10 AM
If these aiming rules seem a little stupid or impractical, think again...
Remember this: EVERY torpedo targetting tip that has ever been written is JUST A GUIDELINE.
In other words, beginners who are still in the learning process should follow these guidelines to heart. These guides are aimed at getting players to repeat the same techniques over and over again, in hopes that they will remember them religiously.
And once a player gets to an experience level where he or she is confident with torpedo targetting, the player can then rely more on instincts rather than pre-written techniques. These stupid or impractical situations serve a purpose; to teach the uninitiated player the nuances of being a u-boat captain.
From my own personal experience, I no longer use any pre-written techniques to aim or launch torpedoes. Now, I can fire from pure eyesight alone... But a few months ago, that was not possible. Everything I know now, I learned from torpedo targetting guidelines.
Floater
11-09-05, 09:49 AM
In regard to how your speed relates to how much fuel you use, I was fiddling around with it while asking my navigator the maximum range at this speed. The results were constantly changing but it seemed that running at 'standard' got the highest range response from him.
The Navigator gives very inaccurate results. Try running with no TC, and ask him your range to a distant waypoint. Wait a couple of seconds and ask again, and you'll probably get a very different answer.
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