Paris in flames,who/what is behind all? [Archive]

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Happy Times

11-03-05, 02:30 PM

At the Finnish channel4 news a French sosiology professor visiting Finland told that according to their studies and field work these riots are probably led by educated leaders with a mission. Islam. There is also talk about declaring martial law to Paris.

tycho102

11-03-05, 07:20 PM

I've been keeping up with it a little bit, and there was a statement that caught my attention. (http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-11-03T181755Z_01_KNE228332_RTRUKOC_0_UK-FRANCE-RIOTS.xml)

"It's because of the police that this is going on," said one black youth who did not want to be identified. "They are too violent. That's not what their job is."

This is what they're saying in Paris. Not LA. Not Houston. Not Memphis or Atlanta. It just sounds like, "We have been ordered us to use taqiyya to undermine the French government. We are the victims and the police are the evil, violent oppressors. Good people of the world, hear our plight!"

I think this is the next game that they're going to be playing all over Europe, and sometime soon, America. And I think we've got good old Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Louis Farakan to thank for it. Racism is the headlines on CNN, every day since hurricane Katrina, and the entire middle east has been learning.

It's definately a good idea. I'll give'em that. (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1513137/posts?page=12)

mog

11-03-05, 08:58 PM

TLAM Strike

11-03-05, 09:28 PM

It sounds exactly like the two riots we've had in Sydney this year. Both were sparked by the deaths of juvenile delinquents; the first by an Aboriginal kid who fell off his bike and was impaled on a fence while running from police, and the second by a pair who crashed their stolen car during a high speed chase. The bottom line is that the Welfare State spawns these communities who having been dependents of the Government their entire lives, have no concept of personal responsibility. Consequently, there is a culture of victimisation when it comes to the police trying to hold them accountable for their crimes. Over that last year in Rochester we have had many incidents involving shootings of blacks by police and by other blacks. One time some dumb kid got in to a car chase with a RPD officer, he stopped his car got out with a empty or jammed gun and tried shoot the officer who killed the suspect. Another time a kid in a stolen car tried to run over a bunch of police officers and was killed by them. Each of these incidents caused huge reactions from the black community against the RPD. It was only when a string of shootings of kids by other kids did they start to say stop the violence. Your are absolutely correct there is a culture of victimization and Us vs. Them.

snowsub

11-03-05, 09:56 PM

It sounds exactly like the two riots we've had in Sydney this year. Both were sparked by the deaths of juvenile delinquents; the first by an Aboriginal kid who fell off his bike and was impaled on a fence while running from police, and the second by a pair who crashed their stolen car during a high speed chase. The bottom line is that the Welfare State spawns these communities who having been dependents of the Government their entire lives, have no concept of personal responsibility. Consequently, there is a culture of victimisation when it comes to the police trying to hold them accountable for their crimes.

:hulk: :stare: And why doesn't the Police here have rubber bullets :damn: . You see then throwing bricks etc and making rude gestures etc to the police from behind balaclava's and I just would like the cops to shoot them as they try and throw the bricks/molotov's and fireworks, take that ugly smirk right off their faces :arrgh!:

Kapitan

11-04-05, 02:26 AM

british have rubber bullets here but now days if you talking near airport sea port or some for of public transport system even in places like london the guns are not filled with blank or even rubber bullets.

police in britain now have the right to shoot to kill and suspect terrorist :o

ABBAFAN

11-05-05, 10:53 AM

I think Big Bertha's responsible

Rockstar

11-06-05, 08:57 PM

Will Europe go with a whimper? Or will it fight? Or, will some European politoco eat crow & beg for US Military intervention?

France is lost get out while you can!

Where's the Battle of Poitiers 'Martel' when you need him? :arrgh!:

Type941

11-06-05, 11:11 PM

it's worrying for sure. I mean torched 2000+ cars.. wtf. May be torch garbage, could be useful at least.

apparently, they just made a discovery of some shot that was producing molotov cocktails and other things, and supplying to the rioters. Indeed looks like a well organized effort.

Damo1977

11-07-05, 02:30 AM

When crap like this happens in Europe, I say deport the bastards. They want freedom and yet like to abuse it by resorting to violence more accustomed to their homelands so begone with them. It stems from this 'Multiculturalism' or 'melting pot' bull****e. Its turned us Westerners into 'tree loving hippies' who are afraid to speak our minds unless OMG we are branded as 'racist' or worse 'fascist'. I don't see many westerners jumping on boats and claiming refugee status in their countries. They should be very thankful we gave them a new life which they seem to like to abuse.

So begone with them and may they live a merry life back in their original country!!!

Abraham

11-07-05, 05:16 AM

Well, the main French Muslim organisation distanced itself from the riots and even issued a Fathwa against those Muslims who'ld participate.
Let's see if it helps, but I have my doubt.
This is not a religious problem but much more a social problem of gangs of unemployed youth, who find themselves rejected in a period of economic stagnation in France. They'll use anything, including Islam, to create some common bond or purpose. To me they are as much real Muslim as the IRA was real Catholic...
But it certainly does not promote integration and understanding from the French society, I'm afraid.

Abraham

11-07-05, 05:20 AM

Well, the main French Muslim organisation distanced itself from the riots and even issued a Fathwa against those Muslims who'ld participate.
Let's see if it helps, but I have my doubt whether Muslim leaders have these youth under control...
This is not a religious problem but much more a social problem of gangs of unemployed youth, who find themselves rejected in a period of economic stagnation in France. They'll (mis)use anything, including Islam, to create some common bond or purpose and play the THEM vs. US card. To me they are as much real Muslim as the IRA was real Catholic...
But it certainly does not promote integration and understanding from the French society, I'm afraid.

Sixpack

11-07-05, 09:29 AM

a Fathwa against those Muslims who'ld participate

As if that means anything... If the youngsters won't care for that either, I am sure the French can eventually level with them and solve things the European way.

Happy Times

11-07-05, 10:36 AM

And it continues still, the police doesnt control large areas of the city. It has spread to other cities also. And the latests news idicate that it could be spreading outside of France. Cars have been burned in Berlin and Brussels. Hope it doesnt go to full blown civil war but thas a serious possibility. The first casualty has been reported also. :-?

Sixpack

11-07-05, 10:43 AM

I predict Chirac is under the Guillotine within 3 days !

:rotfl:

tycho102

11-07-05, 11:10 AM

A fatwah doesn't do anything unless you have the psychopaths necessary to carry it out. It's not the arrest warrant that causes fear, it's the fear of the swat team carrying M-4's and tear gas. Same thing with the UN. Don't pass resolutions you're not prepared to enforce.

I want to know the total number of cars that have been burned. It was 1400 last night. Night before it was over 1000. Night before that it was 850. Night before that it was in the 300's.

Dude! It's going to be like Philadelphia, before long. :rotfl:

bradclark1

11-07-05, 02:03 PM

Wounder if it's going to be used as a way for something big happening. You know, conspiracy type thing. Just let you imagination run a little wild.

bradclark1

11-07-05, 02:06 PM

The first casualty has been reported also.
I think it's amazing that it went this long without death's.

joea

11-07-05, 03:10 PM

Damo1977

11-07-05, 03:34 PM

Well they are not just of the boat, most of them were born in France, that's what is worrying and the big problem. How to solve that? Deport French citizens?

1st generation?, 2nd? so what? if they haven't assimilated deport the bastards!!! They left one country their culture destroyed, and now there on the road to destroying another. I would like to know one thing, if this starts spreading throughout the Western world, (which our Great and Glorious leaders are worrying about), where can the westerners become refugees?

TLAM Strike

11-07-05, 03:50 PM

Is France run by FEMA?!?! :roll: Its time to call in whatever the French have for a National Guard (Gendarmerie?) or their Army and close down those streets. :nope:

tycho102

11-07-05, 04:34 PM

As much as I hate the New York Times, they're reporting some of the stats. (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/07/international/europe/07cnd-france.html?hp)

While there had been earlier reports of rioters firing weapons, the shootings on Sunday marked the first time that police officers had been wounded by weapons since the riots began; 77 members of the police and 31 firemen have been injured since the disturbances began

Since then, nearly 5,000 vehicles have been destroyed, along with dozens of public buildings and private businesses.

Wow!

Rockstar

11-07-05, 04:37 PM

Ok France here's a little history lesson so get ready. People conquered by the Muslims usually get a choice. They can denounce their religion and convert to Islam, pay a tax to continue practicing their beliefs, become a slave, or be executed. Most chose to convert. But many people paid the tax.

Let's see if it helps, but I have my doubt whether Muslim leaders have these youth under control...

Horse puckey these extremists have leaders. North African Muslims having no intention of becoming a Frenchman or work! Rather desiring to live the way they want while soaking off a socialist government/welfare state.

The Avon Lady

11-07-05, 05:31 PM

Skybird

11-08-05, 05:37 AM

http://www.heise.de/tp/r4/artikel/21/21296/1.html

AG124

11-08-05, 10:33 AM

They are supposed to be living in poverty and misery, but in some of the pictures of the 'slums', I can't help but notice the satellite dishes that a lot of them can somehow afford. :roll:

France should bring in the army and show no mercy. :hulk: This may be partially about blaming others for your lifestyle, but it's mainly just street gangs with nothing better to do with their lives being prodded on by drug pushers and a few extremists. I even heard in one source that a few gangs of white trash were joining in too, and I somehow doubt that they're protesting racism and inequality :roll:. It's just a time for losers who want to destroy other people's property to have some 'fun'.

And although only one person has been killed (if you don't count the break-and-enter criminals who were stupid enough to electrocute themselves to death in the first place), he was a poor old man trying to put out a fire in a garbage can before it caught his home on fire. And a 13 months old baby was taken to hospital with head injuries after being attacked with rocks :o. And a handicapped woman was doused with gasoline and set on fire :nope:. AND a team of paramedics trying to rescue a sick woman were attacked before their ambulance was destroyed :x. This isn't "effecting social change' - what can they possibly hope to accomplish through this. If anything, it could seriously undermine liberal attitudes towards them, but that's for history to determine :-?. No one I know has a shred of pity towards them - the 'outrageous' comments by that French conservative who called them "rabble" are nothing compared to what I have heard personally.

I am not a racist, not at all. People should be allowed to practice their own beliefs in our society (as long as they do not contradict our laws), but should not be forcing them down the throats of others.

This post is not intended to offend anyone, except maybe the Paris rioters themselves if they are reading :hmm:.

Rockstar

11-08-05, 07:56 PM

Merde en France http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/11/7/94742/9727

By thankyougustad
Tue Nov 8th, 2005 at 07:07:44 AM EST

On Thursday October 27, 2005, Bouna Traore and Zyed Benna, French teenagers from the outskirts of Paris, were electrocuted while hiding from the Police in an electric substation. An official denial from the police was not enough to stop a night of rioting: the police spent the night clashing with groups of young people from the banlieue. That first night, 27 people were arrested. In the eleven nights since, the rioting has spread to more than thirty cities, from discontented community to discontented community all over France. Thousands of cars have been destroyed. Many public buildings have gone up in flames, including schools, stores, and police stations. More than one-thousand arrests have been made

And yet, the police are unable to control the rioters who, in a country where guns are illegal, shoot live ammunition at them. Every night, as the sun sets, France erupts in flames. In cities like Paris and Lyon, but also in smaller cities like Avignon, small communities like Valréas and Carpentras. Why is this happening? Why are rioters saying that it will not end until there are two dead cops?

La Racaille

While French President Jaques Chirac impotently calls for the reestablishment of Order and Respect for the Law, hardline Minister of the Interior Nicholas Sarkozy has called the rioters scum and called for them to be pressure cleaned from the cities. Whatever the purported original causes for the rioting, many young people in the suburbs claim that it is Sarkozy's disdain for their complaints that is provoking them now. They further insist that the rioting will continue until he resigns. Meanwhile, every morning the damage is reassessed and the cleanup begins.

Who is doing the Rioting?

After the breakdown of European colonialism, millions of people from the former French colonies were brought back to help reconstruct the damage from World War Two. Some, like the Harkis, who fought at the sides of the losing French army in The Algerian War for Independence, had little choice but to come back to France. They were put in grim edifices on the outskirts of France's biggest cities, Paris, Marseille, Strasbourg, Toulouse, and left there for thirty years. The people who live there, mostly the second and third generations of North African immigrants, complain of disastrously low employment rates, drugs, crime, police abuse, and the feeling of being neglected by French society. They are political mutes; There are no major political figures that are French of North African extraction.

France knows it has a problem. It has been less than a month since the fires in slum buildings that killed entire families of African immigrants. The French population has shown its support countless times in demonstrations against the absurd and inhuman governmental policies toward the immigrants. In film, literature, music, and television, the plight of young urban people, white and otherwise, has been explored.

There have even been precursers to these riots, going all the way back to the late 70's. In April, the death of a youngster shot by police in Aubervilles sparked rioting on a small scale. To keep things in perspective: in the first ten months of 2005, 28,000 cars were set on fire in France. Police in Marseille say that no more cars burned there over the weekend than do on any other weekend. The discontent has been smoldering for a long time; people are unhappy.

Sarkozy is a future presidential candidate and it seems unlikely that he will resign from his position. In fact, his current approval rating among French people is a healthy 57%. He is a law and order candidate, and indeed, his forceful words are likely to improve his standing with middle class people in France. The left wing has denounced him for coddling the right wing, but their own position in France has been consistently eroded the past couple of years as their policies have failed to improve social conditions.

What is the role of Islam in the riots?

Despite the claims of right wingers in both France and America, Islam seems to play only a minor role in the current unrest. The head of the Mosque in the flash point of the conflict, Clichy-Sous-Bois, has called for peace. Islamic leaders all over the country are joining tired and scared citizens in marches denouncing the violence and calling for a dialogue.

The French police launched a tear gas grenade against the Clichy-Sous-Bois Mosque, further enraging the already allienated community. The attack seems more an attack on them and their way of life than it does on Islam itself.

The Union of Islamic Organizations in France has issued a Fatwa against the rioting, saying that "It is strictly forbidden for any Muslim... to take part in any action that strikes blindly at private or public property or that could threaten the lives of others." It has, however been mostly ineffective so far. Although the disaffected youth are predominantly from North African immigrant families, who follow an Islamic tradition, they are generally not practicing. The use of hash and alcohol is high in these communities. Arabic is widely understood, but fewer and fewer people can speak it. Their knowledge of the Qu'ran is passing. Islamic religious law has less and less hold on them.

Sunday night marked the first time two Catholic Churches were attacked, at Saint-Edouard à Lens (Pas-de-Calais)and l'île de Thau à Sète (Hérault), but this seems to be more an attack on the institutions of France than it does on Christianity. There are even alarming suggestions that the rioters are competing with each other in a chauvanistic fashion to wreak the most havoc.

However, there can be little doubt that religious extremists are in France and that they have fomented Islamic fanatacism in the dissaffected areas. Although the attacks do not seem to be religious in nature, religious fundamentalism is almost certainly present in a minority of rioters. There is a risk that leaders of terrorist cells will tap into this fact to organize mob attacks on civilian targets.

This doesn't change the fact that the rioters are from a poor, uneducated jobless stratum of society. Most Islamic funamentalists are from the middle class. Making this into an issue of Islamic Jihad and Sharia is to ignore the true problems. In order to find real solutions, the real problems need to be addressed.

The rioting is so widespread that authorities are talking about, at the very least, organized crime involvement. Molotov cocktail factories have been discovered, on the internet one can read incendiary calls to rioting, outraged at police brutality and a government that ignores them. This video gives an image of the riots. They complain of a "Facist" Sakorzy. They speak of "two brothers of ours, killed. That and the Mosque, that's too much." They are used to the police violence, being asked for their papers over and over. At the end of the video, a stoney faced but powerless Sarkozy threatens them with MORE police and MORE prison time (France's prisons are all ready over-crowded and dangerous) the very thing they are ardently fighting against! How are these two things to be reconcilled?

At the time of writing, the first rioters were coming before France's Judges.

The presumed authors of violence in the suburbs, presented Monday in courts across France, are mostly very young and seem to have acted without coherent motives and without organization. - La Libération

There is widespread discontentment in France, and now that Saint-Gillis, Brussels, Belgium, has seen violence, and there are possible copycat indcidents in Bremen and Berlin, Germany, the European failure to integrate their immigrants has taken on a new immediacy. There are violent protests in Denmark. Politcal leaders in Italy are calling for urgent action, saying that "We have the worst suburbs in Europe. I don't think things are so different from Paris. It's only a matter of time."

Is this The Revolution?

France has a proud tradition of revolution. Indeed, the current government is the Fifth Republic since the famous French Revolution. There are whispers in France of chopping heads, of tearing down the government. People are angry, and despite night after night of rioting, the Government seems unwilling or unable to respond to their complaints. For thirty years people have been complaining from the hideous concrete building complexes on the outskirts of European cities. The list of rioting communities is breathtaking.

Some of the stories are ugly. A 56 year old women was sprayed with gasoline and set on fire as she tried to get off a burning bus. No one was arrested when the police showed up and had a showdown with 200 masked teens.

In another incident, the paramedics were called to the apartement of a man sufferening from a heart attack. Local youths stoned them, forcing them to barracade themselves in the victim's apartement. The ambulance was then set on fire.

The first casuality since the death of the two boys has been marked:
Jean-Jacques Le Chenadec, 61, was reportedly struck by a hooded man in the street after he and a neighbour went to inspect damage to bins near their apartment block in the town of Stains, in the Seine-Saint-Denis region outside Paris. - BBC
These barbaric acts underline the fact that there is no guiding philosopy for this revolt. There are no high ideas that dictate morals. It is unbridled frustration unleashed on victims in reach. Although the actual city of Paris has seen spotty car fires, the vast majority of arson has been taken place in the suburbs. The rioters are effectively ****ting in their own beds, and yet they deem this a necessary act of revolution.
Why burn these cars that, more often than not, belong to those around them? "We don't have a choice. We're ready to sacrifice everything since we don't have anything," justifies Bilal. "We even burned a buddy's car. That pissed him off, but he understood." - Le Monde
While the right wingers sweat behind their gates, the poor people are destroying their own communities. It is hard to see anything revolutionary.

What course of action, then, is the government to take? They are unprepared to unleash force, out of fear that the population, already practically out of control, will become unstoppable. Many citizens are calling for the Army to be deployed. But what will happen when the first young French Arab from La Cité is killed by forces of law and order? And indeed, what will happen when the first policeman is killed by a young French Arab? The French government seems stuck in a very tight spot that has needed addressing for fifty years now. They either can stop the rioting by any means necessary, or risk a veritable civil war.

Damo1977

11-09-05, 04:18 AM

This is all the fault of 'whiteperson's, "political corectness". Pandering to the minorities in our own countries. But there is one problem, the Algerians, (who caused the riots) were faithful French Foreign Legion descendants and than discarded to the waste bin by the French. I say bring back Napeoleon Bonarparte, he would show how to quell street riots and I say 'Death to the Royalists'.

Dan D

11-09-05, 05:51 AM

Album of the week:
„Princes de la ville” by 113, french 'ip 'op,
smashing record, bought in France 1999 when it was in the top 10 charts.

Favourite song:
“tonton du bled”, best played –unpolitical correct- in asskicking loud surround sound when cruising up an down the main road in a gangsta car with black mirrowed-glass, or at least wear sun glasses.

Here ve go with ze song:
http://www.113online.com/
“Faire un tour au salon”: videos,
clip 6 “tonton du bled”,
clip 7 “Princes de la ville”

„Lé lé la
lé lé la
lé lé la
Oua Oua Oua”

The Avon Lady

11-09-05, 06:16 AM

Favourite song:
“tonton du bled”, best played –unpolitical correct
Jes nes parles pas Francais. :-?

Dan D

11-09-05, 03:58 PM

Favourite song:
“tonton du bled”, best played –unpolitical correct
Jes nes parles pas Francais. :-?

My french sucks too.

I think the meaning of the title is "uncle from cow village", tonton= uncle, bled= cow village. That would mean the musicians are dissing themselves like those black music artists using speech rhythms who call themselves "******s" all the time.
I have to admit, for some years I thought the meaning is "bloody concrete" or similar :88)

The Avon Lady

11-10-05, 10:09 AM

Some of you Europeans might appreciate this:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y219/Avary-Freedom/asterix_a_lutece.jpg

I don't think N. Americans are familiar with Asterix characters.

Abraham

11-10-05, 04:50 PM

(O.T.)
Favourite song:
“tonton du bled”, best played –unpolitical correct
Jes nes parles pas Francais. :-?You mean: "Je ne parle pas français." (It means: tu ne parles pas français).
No personal criticism though, ani lo medaber ivrit...
:D

tycho102

11-12-05, 09:01 AM

They burned 500+ cars last night, and besides the fact they're yelling Allah Akbar, something else has come to my attention.

I've known about the 35 hour work-week for quite some time. What I didn't know is how difficult it is to fire someone from a job. France has laws for an administrative review of an employee, and it takes over 100 days to actually fire someone. Effectively, the jobs that are already there belong to the current employee until his/her death or retirement. If you lose a job, you can expect to be unemployed for over a year; not for lack of looking, but for lack of hiring.

There is absolutely no turn-over in France. You do not climb from poverty to middle-class, and you sure as heck don't climb from middle-class to rich-elite.

I think all of this really goes back to World War II. The Illuminati (heh) transferred their money to American banks, before Germany invaded. After the war, they transferred their money back. The same people who got France into the defensive/pacifist/Maginot Line before the war, were the same damn people running the country into the ground, again, after the war. There was never any genetic turnover. There was never any class turnover.

...in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
There were a king with a large jaw and a queen with a plain face, on the throne of England; there were a king with a large jaw and a queen with a fair face, on the throne of France. In both countries it was clearer than crystal to the lords of the State preserves of loaves and fishes, that things in general were settled for ever.

The beauty of this situation is that if France surrenders this time, the Muslims will burn down entire tracts of French history. Saudi Arabia will pour billions of dollars into a French-Muslim "state", just like they did in the southern Phillipines. They will raze the Eiffel Tower, and the Arc de Triomphe, and vast segments of old apartments. Not just to build mosques, but to erase the filth of the west. Things that Nazi Germany, or England's Henry V, didn't do. The only question is whether Holland, Denmark, Germany, Britain, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Austria will see the danger to their historical "culture", and fight to protect it.

Abraham

11-12-05, 10:25 AM

I think you are far too pessimistic.
We are talking about thugs that may shout Islam slogans but that certainly don't represent the Muslim community as a whole or even a fair part of it. In my view they are criminals, not martyrs, though they would love to widen their cause...

micky1up

11-12-05, 07:12 PM

there were 2 riots in birmingham uk this last month but that was acctually asians vs african peoples the riots in france are all about the racist french institutions and policys in france designed to keep all ethinic imigrants down at the botom of the pile all i can say is france is now reaping the rewards of trying hipocritically to take the morale high ground over us/uk policy while blatantly doing the what it likes in its own policys tough poo poo i say no sympathy

france is just a nation who cant defend its self not in 2 world wars or the cold war after which it stabbed the back of america who provided a deterrent againt the soviets for years and years , it also can't fight against its own unions who walk all over the goverment now it cant even defend its own ppl from themselves ,im a big believer in u reap what u sow so i think its payback time for france

Abraham

11-13-05, 03:50 PM

Five cars were burned and eleven damaged in an alochtone suburb of Rotterdam South, last night.
The police is investigating...
I bet it's some Muslim youth, that will try to turn this into an unholy religious war...
This has nothing to do with mainstream Islam, but since there is no system of excommunication in Islam, every Muslim idiot can claim to follow the Prophet (peace be upon us) and every Muslim idiot will certainly find an imam willing to support and bless his destructive views in the name of Allah...
I find it difficult to take Islam serious anymore. Why don't they clean their ****ty house and get their act together. Isn't it time to kick some people out of this religion or reform it?
:down:

joea

11-13-05, 04:10 PM