Does this mean there is no SH4? [Archive]

GlobalExplorer

11-02-05, 06:33 AM

Have you read this post by the TeddyBär?

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=44717&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

"The original SHIII Dev Team have been moved onto various other projects and are offering their assistance to the community as they can in their own free time. It was Ubisofts decision not to make available a SDK for SHIII, the Dev Team are only employees. However, it is only through the grace of Ubisoft that the SHIII Dev Team have been able to make such generous offers. So let’s not get into ‘yer but they said’ etc, it will not change anything."

"In May, the SHIII Dev Team had mostly been split up. Some having been moved onto other projects, and in some cases they have left Ubisoft.
Let me clarify something. There is NO add on for SHIII, there is at this stage NO SHIV.
Guys, you need to understand, SHIII is a finished project for Ubisoft. Finished, no more patches and no add ons, nothing. I would not rule out a SHIV, but I am 99% sure that ther most likely will not be one anytime in the next few years."

@TeddyBear: Now can we trust you that this is the "official unofficial" announcement that there will be no further development of sh4??

Does this come that much as a surprise? I was incredulous when SHIII was announced three years ago, and I was much more incredulous when it came out and I saw what a serious and thorough simulation it was. Exactly the game the subsim community had craved for.
Now IMO this type of hard core sim has no chance on todays market whatsoever and UBI must have known it (and developed it anyway, thx UBI). Especially I want to thank the romanian developers, who have put all their life blood into this game, and it shows. You guys are great. Ten years after AOD you have created the first uboat simulation that surpasses it, now lets see how long it takes until another one comes.

What do you think?

oRGy

11-02-05, 10:29 AM

Sounds like typical corporate management techniques.

Team makes a good game, break them up, move onto something else, repeat.

Twelvefield

11-02-05, 11:30 AM

I think that the future of computer games that push the envelope of gaming entertainment will come from the smaller game developers, especially from Europe. I less and less cone to expect that ground-breaking or specialist/simulation games will come from the giant game companies like EA, with MS Flight Simulator being the exception that proves the rule.

That being said, the SHIII game developers aren't dead, they've just been re-tasked. They will work on something else for now, but sooner or later, they will come up with something that echoes Silent Hunter. It's just like the guys that originally came up with "The Sims" no longer work together, but those developers are responsible for a lot of Sims-like behavior in more recent games: CJ now goes to clothing stores to try on outfits in Grand Theft Auto, there's a lot of Sims-like activity in Evil Genius, Pirates! features "Simlish" speaking characters, etc. etc. etc.

SteamWake

11-02-05, 11:44 AM

wetwarev7

11-02-05, 11:47 AM

I think that the future of computer games that push the envelope of gaming entertainment will come from the smaller game developers, especially from Europe. I less and less cone to expect that ground-breaking or specialist/simulation games will come from the giant game companies like EA,

I agree. If you ever get a chance, check out Egosoft's X3: The Return. This series is by far the best space game, period. I first learned of it when they had just come out witht the expansion pack for the first one, and I was able to order it and the expansion, with overseas shipping, for like $25(US), because there was absolutly no marketing for it here in the states.

I find that as a rule of thumb, the more marketing a game has, the less likely it will be a ground-breaking or epic experience, and almost ALL games made in the States by large companies are market driven. All the best, classic games I can think of were all made by people or companies who were, at the time, nobodies.

Trav_R

11-02-05, 03:29 PM

Mafia, developed by the Czech developer Illusion Softworks, is the most badassinest organized crime game the world has ever seen, bar none. The fact that a Czech company had such a good grasp of organized crime in America in the 1930's is proof of the amount of care and attention detail that was put into the game. If you haven't played it, and you read about it, you may think "Grand Theft Auto." Let me assure you, they are quite different. Mafia is linear, not so open ended. This has its drawbacks, but has the major bonus of allowing for a very very good plot, with very real and likeable characters. It's very easy to become immersed.

Archangel

11-02-05, 03:43 PM

"Mafia" is a LOVELY game :D I have beaten it 3 times, as a sidenote use wheel and pedals for the driving...oh my good times :)

GlobalExplorer

11-02-05, 03:59 PM

I think one other exception would be (shudder) Ubisoft whom have shown there willingness to try and market niche sims like.. oh yea Silent Hunter 3.

Even Micro$oft doesent publish an update to Flight Simulator but every 4 years or so.

Exactly. UBI bashing has to stop IMO. The only big publisher that is still producing a few hard core sims (and might possibly have sometimes lost money over it).

Examples?

IL-2
- good graphics
- big success story
- sequel in the works

LOMAC
- endless development time
- great graphics
- sold badly cause of complexity

SH3
- great game
- short development time
- sales so-so cause it's too special (?)

And all those games are on my harddrive :)

Well, maybe Microsoft should also be given some credit <ducks in a trench>. Don't forget they published titles like Train simulator, which other publisher would have dared that? Somehow I still hope their current campaign to promote PC-gaming might miraculously include the announcement of CFS4. Though CFS3 sucked badly, CFS2 was really good.

GlobalExplorer

11-02-05, 04:17 PM

I think that the future of computer games that push the envelope of gaming entertainment will come from the smaller game developers, especially from Europe. I less and less cone to expect that ground-breaking or specialist/simulation games will come from the giant game companies like EA, with MS Flight Simulator being the exception that proves the rule.

That might be true and in a couple of years there could be some smaller players providing for the sim-market. Hopefully.

I do, however, believe that their games would have to become outrageausly expensive. There is no way they're gonna be able to sell their games for 50$ and still make a profit.

Because much smaller numbers = higher price per unit.

Lets imagine there was a company that sells a hard core subsim, with regular updates for 500 $ per copy. Imagine you also have to pay for new features / content, lets say another 100-500 $ annually?

That would mean ~ 1 million dollar if you were able to sell 1000 copies to people who want to pay the money. I am sure such a model could possibly work with a few people on this board, but it would still be a huge risk for such a company.

FERdeBOER

11-02-05, 04:22 PM

Most of my recent games are from Ubi. Is the few "big" company that makes quality games at good prices, but on the other side, they do not care a lot their games once released.

But we have to support them.

It's a pity that SHIII is considered finished, because still have a lot of time of funn because it's great graphics and engine. A Paciffic add-on would be great. Also a Destroyer add-on...
We would have to put our hopes on the modders. Thank you for your work!!

About small companies making great games: take2 and "hidden&dangerous"

benetofski

11-02-05, 04:41 PM

Like anything else, a product has a life-cycle and depending upon the revenues generated this can be long or short!

Smaller Companies have shorter development times and test their markets by consumer demand.

Unfortunately the computer games user-base tires very quickly of any new product, so new development must always be the manufacturers priority.

I am still not sure why UBISOFT did not release an SDK, being that the game was heavily touted as a 'sub-sim'...

I guess (thinking about it) they have every right to protect their 'intellectual property' however they seem fit - maybe because it could open a 'Pandora's Box' to a community-driven pseudo-SH4 and perhaps they want to keep that option open to themselves? :hmm:

As far as the Team break up is concerned, I wish every one of them the very best of luck in their future endeavours and thanks for a great game. :up:

U-552Erich-Topp

11-02-05, 05:06 PM

:) Hey let's be glad we ended up with as good as sub simulator as SH3. After all, we could have ended up with a sub sim that was very very poor in quality. Good Hunting on the high seas, Erich Topp U-552

Hellcat

11-02-05, 05:09 PM

Ula Jolly

11-02-05, 05:11 PM

CFS3 sucked so bad in comparison to CFS2, I'm not even gonna start. Seriously, it was... anal. :cry:

CWorth

11-02-05, 05:36 PM

Despite the fact that SHIV is currently over the hills, I still do not see how they can release a product support it for several months and then stop fixing it.

For example if I purchase a car I'd expect the manufactuer to continue to make service recalls/bulletins untill all pontential problems are eliminated. Product support should last the life of the product (ie while people are still using it) rather than when sales drop off the map. Hell take a look at Blizzard they released a patch for Diablo recently and that one came out years and years ago...

This is the problem nowadays.Most game companies dont give a hoot about the customers/gamers once they have your money.They got what they wanted and who cares about anything else.Ubi is really no different than any other company in this sense.

Look at Pacific Fighters that was released..It is unfinished and missing most of what made the Pacific War what it was.And there are no plans to remedy this and Ubi has for the most part are finished with it.

Alot of companies should look to Battlefront.com and see how you are supposed to treat and support those that buy your products.This is why they still have people playing CMBO that was made years ago.They support their games 100% and do everything they can to make sure they fix any bugs that come up in their programs and also do what they say they are going to do in terms of adding or fixing issues.The software industry could learn alot from Battlefront.

Wulfmann

11-02-05, 05:59 PM

CFS3 sucked so bad in comparison to CFS2, I'm not even gonna start. Seriously, it was... anal. :cry:

Not for people that can mod and tweak. No other CFS comes close. Of course one must trash nearly everything in the stock game and devote hundreds of hours to get it working right.

But, for those that do not want to do that CFS3 certainly sucked badly compared to IL-2 series. For a sim that just pops in and plays you are correct and particularly for multiplayer IL-2 is the only way.

CFS2 was a very fun sim in its time but quickly dated with severe limitations.

Oleg knew his IL-2 engine was inferior to CFS3 but his play was so much better. I am sure his new engine will be very impressive. It needs to be. The new Aviation History CFS3-MAW FMs are the closest thing to reality anyone one has done. But, they are not released yet so you can either believe it or wait and see.

Wulfmann

ironkross

11-02-05, 11:25 PM

I agree. If you ever get a chance, check out Egosoft's X3: The Return. This series is by far the best space game, period. I first learned of it when they had just come out witht the expansion pack for the first one, and I was able to order it and the expansion, with overseas shipping, for like $25(US), because there was absolutly no marketing for it here in the states.

I find that as a rule of thumb, the more marketing a game has, the less likely it will be a ground-breaking or epic experience, and almost ALL games made in the States by large companies are market driven. All the best, classic games I can think of were all made by people or companies who were, at the time, nobodies.
I see a trend in the industry to rush to the game platforms at the expense of PC games.
Sorry to get off topic but I played XBTF after picking it up in a bargain bin and trying it and becoming elated and spellbound by such an amazing game. I couldn't get the expansion. I later played X2 and loved it but I'm holding off on X3. I agree this is the best space game series there is. I was at first a little put off when I heard Egosoft had decided not to include cockpits in the spacecraft in X3. I even posted on the egosoft forum a comparison between X3/egosoft and SHIII/Ubisoft. I pointed out how Ubi refused to compromise their game in order to create shortcuts in the development process. I compared the lack of cockpits in X3 to the hypothetical situation of Ubi excluding the modeled interiors in SHIII. You could still play SHIII but the immersive factor would be lessened. I felt the decision not to model the cockpits was a concession to make the game more adaptable to Xbox.
I would like to know if you have played X3 yet? And what do you think about the state of the game now? Do you think they should have released a game that was unplayable right out of the box? I realize there's a patch now to correct most of the bugs but this type marketing strategy is terrible. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/TNBrat/Emotions/Rant-On.gif I really don't feel I can get a realistic answer on the Egosoft forum. There are too many there who either have a Pollyannaish view point or post outright falsehoods in their overzealous attempts to support Egosoft. I have never seen anything like that on Subsim's forum. If I have a problem with a game here I usually recieve helpful responses and not someone telling me it's my fault or my computer's fault or my driver or vidcard etc.
Anything but Egosoft's fault. Sorry, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/TNBrat/Emotions/Rant-Off.gif
Sorry for the off topic. I'll shut up now. :-?

Trav_R

11-03-05, 12:28 AM

To Cworth:

You've got a somewhat skewed perspective on these game companies. They *have* to make money, if they want to continue making good games. In the business world, you make a product, and hope that you can sell enough of it to cover your expenses at the very least. If you are very good, you can actually make a profit, which is better, because the profits can then be spent on making a better game the next time around. There's nothing inherently wrong with this system.

With software engineering in general, and game design in particular, the "creating a product" part is extremely complex and time consuming, requiring a team of very skilled professionals several months or years to complete a product. This means that creating a game is *extremely* expensive for a company, which means that they are going to have to pay extra attention to all business aspects if they are to cover costs and make a profit, thus ensuring their survival.

One of those business aspects that they have to carefully consider is how long to support a game and how much money to spend in supporting it. If the game sells well enough and it appears that it will continue to do so, the company can afford to support it more, thereby further increasing consumer happiness and sales. If, however, the product doesn't sell well enough, they have to make some tough decisions. In the case of SHIII, sales weren't enough to justify spending a whole lot of money supporting it long after its release.

The game is, in my opinion, hands down the best sub sim ever created and it may stay that way for several years. That doesn't automatically mean it's going to sell well, though. Most people who play a lot of video games are not interested in sub sims, or any sim even remotely hard-core. They want shooters, beatemups, maybe some arcade style flying games, things like that. SHIII is way too in depth for about 90% of gamers, and nothing Ubisoft does will change that. The idea of slinking around the Atlantic in a slow, fragile, weak craft, and only managing to "whip some ass" through a fair amount of skill and effort just doesn't cut it for your average gamer. They want explosions, heads getting blown off, pixellated boobies, and they want it all quick and easy. They want cheat codes, they want walkthroughs, they want spoilers.

Games like SHIII just aren't very marketable, and any time a company makes one, they are putting their life on the line, in a sense. They are well aware that they stand a fair chance of losing a ton of money, and, very possibly going bankrupt. Why would they do it? Because they love great games, and they love even more to make great games. A game like SHIII doesn't come into creation by a bunch of money-grubbing scumbags. The game is simply too good to be created by people that low. But the people who created it are normal people like you and me, and normal people don't work for free. This means that if the game doesn't sell well enough, and they continue to support it, they are essentially doing it for either very cheap, for free, or at a loss.

So, in the plain and true words of Peter Gibbons from Office Space, "Where's the motivation, Bob?"

kiwi_2005

11-03-05, 01:00 AM

Hey let's be glad we ended up with as good as sub simulator as SH3. After all, we could have ended up with a sub sim that was very very poor in quality. Good Hunting on the high seas, Erich Topp U-552

Yeah i totally agree.

Its OK comrades, we have Silent Hunter 3 we have professional modders, we have Wolves at war, we have the WPL we have beer! Ahh sorry. But i figured this there be no SH4, ages ago, just didn't want to say anthing just in case i got hunted down :D.

If Silent Hunter III had sold a few million copies like games such as Civiization thats now up to number IV, then there would be a Silent hunter 4. Unless some other developer buys the rights of Ubisoft, then we have SH4.

Until then see you on the seas.

ReM

11-03-05, 03:29 AM

There will definately be a SHIV someday.....the only question is when (and by whom).
Quality subsims have been few and far between......I thinks y'all should be glad that there have been two of those this year (SH IV and DW, which I still haven't played but heard of a lot)
Anyway: there will be another great subsim, and yes it will take a while.
Until then: be glad that the modders in this community keep churning out new wrinkles that keep SH III interesting! :yep:

ENtek-IO

11-03-05, 04:53 AM

I really dont care how you name it, but Fact is they delivered a unfinished product.! IF you check out the files in depht you will find the traces of unfinished features everywhere.
Imagine that, you buy the newest Porsche and they left out the Turbo loader, because they had to release it .!??
What kind of company ethics is this?
Its just not UBi who lost it, its the whole industry,screwing over customers via unfinished products.IF Auto companys would do that one time they would be out of the circus.
A real Exclusion.
Compare this to Companys like Codemasters, And their game OP flashpoint.
I would gladly pay 200 Bucks if the game had everything you would expect from their own announcements, and it is FInished , BUG free to 99%.

Whats this SDK bull****??? Where is it, i am waiting,.. Are the modders nowadays the new Standard enemy of the companys?? Stealing them sale opportunities?

Shortsighted to say the least , a real jester is one who doenst know the value of Loyal customers and has no clue how to nurture the tree on whichs very branches hes sitting.

Yet there is One real disgusting aspect ,more then everything else.
ITs the disrespect shown to the programmers and artists who get paid to less and are work slaves ,but who got a right that their art is dispalyed adequately, and not in a product which leaves the impression that respect to anyone who is relevant was left out over greed and or shortsighted winmax and growth philosophys.

FAct is in 50ty years from now on, alot of people will have a hard time to look in any mirror, because you can fool yourself only so much time before you must realize that you are one of the peoples who make the world a worse place to live in.

But how can i expect respect for the programmers and artists and customers, from people who dont even respect themselves?? Nm

The Avon Lady

11-03-05, 05:05 AM

Imagine that, you buy the newest Porsche and they left out the Turbo loader, because they had to release it .!??
What kind of company ethics is this?
If the Porsche is going for 35 bucks, I'll manage! :smug:

ENtek-IO

11-03-05, 06:09 AM

Its irellevant if its 60K for a car or 50ty for a game.
From my point of view its even worse if it is "just a 50ty bucks" case.
Because, whoever buys a porsche is surley not in any financialy pressured situation.
But of course, in that price range you dont screw your customer over, right?
But if its only 50ty bucks you only hit the small guys as a majority, which is ethically ok.
Revealing.
I think this is the result of arround 35 years of breeding spinless, wisedomless, executive personal into the wrong positions.

TDK1044

11-03-05, 07:03 AM

Guys,

From the commissioning company's point of view, it's simply a case of what is the shortest time it will take to develop and release a popular game that will produce a healthy profit for the company. The size of the DEV team and the number of man hours needed is a huge consideration in deciding whether to proceed with a game or not. It is a fact that SH3 was developed in about half the time that AOD was. Considering that fact, SH3 is a pretty good buy for between $35 and $40. Sure there are a few glitches, but most of the complaints in forums such as this are largely subjective opinions rather than game faults. That being said, there are a few issues that the DEVS would like to have had the time to address. But nobody can afford to work for nothing, and so SH3 is what it is.

kiwi_2005

11-03-05, 08:01 AM

Submarine games are just not popular enough to have yearly sequels like the popular games that do. I love playing subsims. But we are a very small majority compare to people that play the id games (quake, I,II III and now IV), Battlefield games, Civilizations, or SIMS everyone or every female plays that damn game its so popular and there be expansions/sequel and more expansions to come out for a long time.

I visit other gaming forums now and then and try to start up a conversation about SH3, and find alot of gamers have never heard of it!

Although SH3 has made few of my mates that would never go near a subsim try it out. But think about it. Your in a sub out in the middle of nowhere waiting for a ship to past by. To a non subsimmer that is boring as hell.

BettingUrlife

11-03-05, 08:38 AM

I'm pretty disgusted myself to hear this. If a car was built that had problems from when it was introduced, there would be a recall. Even though many games are released with bugs, flaws etc etc (however I'm not saying this game is buggy or has an overly great amount of flaws), it seems that these companies can just dump support for these games. I know there is a difference between a car and a computer game, but for me, the principle is the same. Regardless of whether a company needs to make a profit or not, it is just plain wrong. I know there are many excellent modders in the company who can help improve this game, and even though we are all grateful to them, it's not their responsibility to fix it or fix the things.

Sorry for this rant, a little angry at the moment, hopefully what I've said is clear. I really like this game, but to hear that there will be no more patches annoys me intensely.

TDK1044

11-03-05, 09:15 AM

I understand your posting, but the fact of the matter is that four patches were released for this game in the first three months of its release. DEV teams are sub contracted by companies like ubisoft, and there comes a point where the commissioning company won't pay for continued support for a game that is working for 99 percent of the people who purchased it. Bear in mind, that only about one percent of people who purchased SH3 will ever go to a forum such as this. It's easy to believe if you are a frequent visitor to such a forum, that a decent percentage of users of the game also attend such forums. This is not the case. What this all comes down to is that more development time was needed prior to release and ubisoft were not prepared to pay for it. It's that simple. Now they will look at what it cost them to develop and how much they made on the game. If the level of profit is lower than the projected figure then they won't develop SH4 at this time.

wetwarev7

11-03-05, 09:52 AM

I agree. If you ever get a chance, check out Egosoft's X3: The Return. This series is by far the best space game, period. I first learned of it when they had just come out witht the expansion pack for the first one, and I was able to order it and the expansion, with overseas shipping, for like $25(US), because there was absolutly no marketing for it here in the states.

I find that as a rule of thumb, the more marketing a game has, the less likely it will be a ground-breaking or epic experience, and almost ALL games made in the States by large companies are market driven. All the best, classic games I can think of were all made by people or companies who were, at the time, nobodies.

I would like to know if you have played X3 yet? And what do you think about the state of the game now? Do you think they should have released a game that was unplayable right out of the box? I realize there's a patch now to correct most of the bugs but this type marketing strategy is terrible. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/TNBrat/Emotions/Rant-On.gif I really don't feel I can get a realistic answer on the Egosoft forum. There are too many there who either have a Pollyannaish view point or post outright falsehoods in their overzealous attempts to support Egosoft. I have never seen anything like that on Subsim's forum. If I have a problem with a game here I usually recieve helpful responses and not someone telling me it's my fault or my computer's fault or my driver or vidcard etc.

Sorry for the off topic. I'll shut up now. :-?

That's odd, aside from the usual troll or two, I've never had a problem with Egosoft's site. Of course, I haven't been there in a while, so there may be new people there - The regulars usually come back shortly after a release.

I haven't gotten my copy yet, still saving up so I can get it AND Civ4 (which I understand has bugs as well). I had heard a rumor that the cockpits wouldn't be included, but from what I hear, it would probably be modded in if it's not there allready.

I agree that the trend now(and has been for a long time) is to release a game before it's ready. It's a shame, and immoral, and unethical, and unprofessional, and should be a crime. I tried for a long time to get people united and send a message to developers that this was not acceptable. In the end, I just got tired of being angry about it(a bigger shame). Unfortuantley, I find myself just accepting the fact that I now spend my hard-earned money for half finished products. I must be getting old... :nope:

wetwarev7

11-03-05, 10:16 AM

ReM

11-03-05, 10:38 AM

wetwarev7

11-03-05, 10:46 AM

A follow up to the previous post:

:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:
I was just at Egosoft's forum, and found out they are using Starforce!!!! I don't know if I wanna buy it now....
:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

Lol this Starforce.........it's everywhere! :o
Damn it :down:

It's the biggest, meanest, most advanced virus since Windows!!!!

Kpt. Lehmann

11-03-05, 10:47 AM

I think that the future of computer games that push the envelope of gaming entertainment will come from the smaller game developers, especially from Europe. I less and less cone to expect that ground-breaking or specialist/simulation games will come from the giant game companies like EA,

I agree. If you ever get a chance, check out Egosoft's X3: The Return. This series is by far the best space game, period. I first learned of it when they had just come out witht the expansion pack for the first one, and I was able to order it and the expansion, with overseas shipping, for like $25(US), because there was absolutly no marketing for it here in the states.

I find that as a rule of thumb, the more marketing a game has, the less likely it will be a ground-breaking or epic experience, and almost ALL games made in the States by large companies are market driven. All the best, classic games I can think of were all made by people or companies who were, at the time, nobodies.

Regarding Egosoft's X Series... They ARE the BEST!!!!!

goldorak

11-03-05, 11:08 AM

It's the biggest, meanest, most advanced virus since Windows!!!!

Well not exactly, take a look at Sony's rootkit drm on music compact discs, its absolutely worse.

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051101-5514.html

enjoy the benefits of starforce-like protection schemes :damn:

GlobalExplorer

11-03-05, 12:56 PM

Imagine that, you buy the newest Porsche and they left out the Turbo loader, because they had to release it .!??
What kind of company ethics is this?

This car-software analogy has been repeated over and over, and IMO only shows that a person has no idea of software development. I do respect the anger and frustration of some of you if you are having problems with your favourite game, or computers in general. However, if you would decide to apply a car manufacturers strict engineering rules to a computer game, your game would either take decades (not years) to develop, or if you want to do it faster, lets say 2 years, it would have to look like it was made for the Z80. It just doesnt work like that, and yes, it's the customers fault, too. The high standards we are expecting from every game nowadays, can only achieved because programmers are encouraged to work much faster than they should. Some say this is the only way to move forward, though I expect it to change when the technology in general becomes more mature.

From the perspective of software development, I see absolutely nothing wrong with SH3. It is just a shame if you think of what would have been possible with this engine! Especially if you think how little time the team had, and still pulled it off.

Conclusion. If UBI has lost money with SH3, and would still decide to produce a sequel, the guy in charge would sooner or later have to go. It's sad but it's true.

GlobalExplorer

11-03-05, 01:04 PM

Sorry for this rant, a little angry at the moment, hopefully what I've said is clear. I really like this game, but to hear that there will be no more patches annoys me intensely.

I am no less annoyed. But still a bit hopeful. There have been some cases where there have been unofficial patches, especially games with a huge discrepancy between critical acclaim and financial success. GPL and F4 come to mind, both games that are still being worked on though they are from the late 90's.

ironkross

11-03-05, 01:21 PM

A follow up to the previous post:

:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:
I was just at Egosoft's forum, and found out they are using Starforce!!!! I don't know if I wanna buy it now....
:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:
Someone on the Egosoft forum suggested it might not be on the CD version of the game. I hadn't known you could choose from DVD or CD.
I haven't had a problem with Starforce. I would buy X3 despite it's having it, esp. since it's already on my computer w/ SHIII. This isn't my issue as much as playability, lack of cockpits and the huge number of bugs that come w/ the game. I would rather wait for the patches and wait for the cockpit mods and by then maybe buy the game at a discount. :arrgh!:

wetwarev7

11-03-05, 01:26 PM

A follow up to the previous post:

:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:
I was just at Egosoft's forum, and found out they are using Starforce!!!! I don't know if I wanna buy it now....
:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:
Someone on the Egosoft forum suggested it might not be on the CD version of the game. I hadn't known you could choose from DVD or CD.
I haven't had a problem with Starforce. I would buy X3 despite it's having it, esp. since it's already on my computer w/ SHIII. This isn't my issue as much as playability, lack of cockpits and the huge number of bugs that come w/ the game. I would rather wait for the patches and wait for the cockpit mods and by then maybe buy the game at a discount. :arrgh!:

Yeah, I'll probably buy it anyways, it is X3, after all! Especially if I can get the CD version without Starforce. :up:

ironkross

11-03-05, 01:32 PM

From the perspective of software development, I see absolutely nothing wrong with SH3. It is just a shame if you think of what would have been possible with this engine! Especially if you think how little time the team had, and still pulled it off.
I completely agree. I wish other companies would be this dedicated to their products.

Conclusion. If UBI has lost money with SH3, and would still decide to produce a sequel, the guy in charge would sooner or later have to go. It's sad but it's true.
And everytime this happens I'm afraid it retards PC gaming as a whole in relation to the consoles. http://www.netpond.com/images/smilies/pcfite.gif

Ula Jolly

11-03-05, 01:42 PM

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051101-5514.html

enjoy the benefits of starforce-like protection schemes :damn:
I don't mean to go off topic, but that was truly moronic!! If Sony were to install that kind of software on my computer, I would like them to at LEAST use someone competent enough to look as if they cared about me! :rotfl: :hulk:

But over on topic... The ranting about the big, bad game companies that don't give a damn about their customers is getting old. Old, and very stupid. Yes, some people see only money, but quite a few game developers actually start out with a great desire to bring entertainment to people. It's very easy to put them on a distance and label them as Satans, but c'mon!

TDK1044

11-03-05, 01:51 PM

This game will give the vast majority of people who play it years of enjoyment....and for a total cost of under $40. Money well spent in my view. Global Explorer said it all in his posting.

ironkross

11-03-05, 02:09 PM

This game will give the vast majority of people who play it years of enjoyment....and for a total cost of under $40. Money well spent in my view. Global Explorer said it all in his posting.
I agree but I have to credit the modder community for helping to extend the life of SHIII. Without the various mods to spruce things up, I don't think I would play as often as I do. Going on nine months and the mods definitely keep the interest up. :rock:

ReM

11-03-05, 05:43 PM

Maybe there will not be an SH IV,
But an AoD 2 !!!!!

TDK1044

11-06-05, 09:41 AM

I wouldn't write SH4 off just yet, Guys.

supersloth

11-06-05, 02:56 PM

i think gamespot mentioned something about sh4 being in the Q4 2006 lineup. seems a little soon, but i suppose its possible *crosses fingers*

The Avon Lady

11-06-05, 04:25 PM

I wouldn't write SH4 off just yet, Guys.
Don't ignore your CO2 gauge.

TDK1044

11-07-05, 07:11 AM

I'm watching the gauge, Avon Lady...and talking with the people who built it. We'll see.

SteamWake

11-07-05, 10:19 AM

I wouldn't write SH4 off just yet, Guys.
Don't ignore your CO2 gauge.

Hah ! :P

You mean dont hold your breath ? :hmm:

The Avon Lady

11-07-05, 10:25 AM

I wouldn't write SH4 off just yet, Guys.
Don't ignore your CO2 gauge.
Hah ! :P

You mean dont hold your breath ? :hmm:
After all, what's a meta for?!

illuminatus

11-07-05, 01:22 PM

Speaking of Starforce... can you believe that UFO: Aftershock's DEMO (!) came with Starforce?!

who puts copy protection on a freely distributable piece of compiled software aimed at SELLING the software?

Digital rights / copy protection is a necessary evil, but the evil has gone too far!

wetwarev7

11-07-05, 01:26 PM

but the evil has gone too far!

That's what they said about WinMe......

goldorak

11-07-05, 01:28 PM

Digital rights / copy protection is a necessary evil, but the evil has gone too far!

Happy reading :

This is what Sony does to protect its cd : :nope:

http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/sonys-rootkit-first-4-internet.html
http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/more-on-sony-dangerous-decloaking.html

irish1958

11-07-05, 01:30 PM

ubisoft is in business to make money not to make us happy. Even with a couple of flaws, SHIII is so much better than anything else, espicially with the wonderful mods and moddlers. I don't think we should keep bitching. I've has so much fun with this game and the mods that I would pay three times what this game cost for SHIV.
Irish1958 (I still think we were robbed)

goldorak

11-07-05, 01:34 PM

ubisoft is in business to make money not to make us happy.

Wow, so i guess having happy and satisfied customers is bad business practice ? :hmm:

illuminatus

11-07-05, 06:52 PM

The funny thing about the sony DRM is that you can use it against itself and hide your favorite ripping programs against it. It's a balance between a developer's time and money. Unfortunately not all developers are like Blizzard, and there are many occasions where "good enough" is the production motto. Where as Blizzard decided to continuously support games 4-5 years post-release, they know that it's an investment on their part to keep customers playing and paying and immersed enough to jump right into the next big product they shell onto the market. Other publishers may not feel the same, and would much rather see some better numbers on the annual report than building a market for 4-5 years from now.

John Channing

11-08-05, 12:28 PM

ubisoft is in business to make money not to make us happy.

Wow, so i guess having happy and satisfied customers is bad business practice ? :hmm:

Of course not. But you have to balance that with the fact that some people are just never going to be "happy".

Fact of life.

JCC

Soulcommander

11-08-05, 01:07 PM

This doesn't surprise me one bit. I wont say why.
Not all customers were happy!

goldorak

11-08-05, 01:14 PM

This doesn't surprise me one bit. I wont say why.
Not all customers were happy!

If your're implying unhappy customer = pirate you're wrong.

Soulcommander

11-08-05, 01:33 PM

Has nothing to do with pirating. NOTHING.

SteamWake

11-08-05, 03:38 PM

Im just wondering how we got here from "Will there be a SH4" ?

Oh btw Im happy :P

illuminatus

11-08-05, 07:00 PM

i'm still having tons of fun with SH3... I'm not ready for a 4 yet! :rotfl:

Driftwood

11-09-05, 06:52 AM

Well I for one am anxiously awaiting SH4. I'd very much like to take the helm of a Gato or Balao class fleet sub in WWII. Doesn't seem like it should be that big of a deal to convert SH3 into a WWII Pacific theater campaign with US subs. But then, I'm not a software developer. :doh:

TDK1044

11-09-05, 08:13 AM

It's still possible that SH4 will happen, but it won't now be a 2006 release.

GlobalExplorer

11-09-05, 12:50 PM

SteamWake

11-09-05, 03:36 PM

I have no kind of information whatsoever but I believe there is some hope that we are going to see a different kind of game with the same engine. Yes it was said "the team has bee split onto other projects", but not that these are completely unrelated projects.

For my part I could very well imagine a fantastic Pirate sim or maybe a Captain Nemo game with this engine. Why no sim about treasure hunters, I have been waiting for this one for 15 years? If it said UBISoft Romania I wouldn't hesitate.

I mean shouldn't UBI have noticed that they are having the currently best naval engine at their hands, even though the next game needs a wider appeal to be successful?

Actually there WAS a sim about treasure hunting. Looooong time agon in CGA graphics. It was actually kind of entertaining. Cant remember the name of it but basically you had to locate wrecks, dive on them, recover treasure, and stay financially sound while upgrading your equipment. There were competitors and "claim jumpers" too.

Anyone remember this game ?

And now for something completly different :P http://www.jawsthegame.com/

Ping Jockey

11-10-05, 08:08 AM

I read here that SH3 had only sold 26,000 copies world wide.I find that hard to believe. Does anyone know how many copies it did sell??Gamespot shows a release date of Q4 2006 for SH4.

GlobalExplorer

11-10-05, 12:53 PM

Actually there WAS a sim about treasure hunting. Looooong time agon in CGA graphics. It was actually kind of entertaining. Cant remember the name of it but basically you had to locate wrecks, dive on them, recover treasure, and stay financially sound while upgrading your equipment. There were competitors and "claim jumpers" too.

Anyone remember this game ?

I think I have seen this game downloadable on ..
Still hard to believe that this idea was never picked up again. Could be a perfect mix between strategic decisions, great naval graphics and some good roleplaying as well.

And btw there has also never been a serious SCUBA simulator, I'd buy that the day it comes out.

P.S. I just found something funny. Whenever I submit that link it is changed to www.the-underwear.org :hmm: The site is perfectly legal, isnt it??

GlobalExplorer

11-10-05, 01:08 PM

I read here that SH3 had only sold 26,000 copies world wide.I find that hard to believe. Does anyone know how many copies it did sell??Gamespot shows a release date of Q4 2006 for SH4.

SH4 is vapourware as far as the announcement on Gamespot and other gaming sites is concerned. There was some indirect hint for a possible sequel, which was then quoted and requoted on the various sites.

The number 26,000 has often been published, but imo out ouf context. It is (supposedly) the sales figure for the months March and April, the "hot" time when the game was still new, and when a games economic fate is usually decided. Rest assured that if the number was true, SH4 would have been the worst disaster in UBI's long history. I don't believe it.

And, though I can't answer your question, from what I know it sold so-so. At least in Germany it was some kind of a success (have checked that personally at some local mediastores), but of course this was to be expected, and of course it isn't enough.

I guess we mostly agree that it should have become the simulation of the year, but I am afraid that's not to be. Watching at the map screen for hours while listening to the Tipperary song is not everyone's cup of tea :)

Type941

11-10-05, 01:53 PM

Sounds like typical corporate management techniques.

Team makes a good game, break them up, move onto something else, repeat.

break up, or more often - let them go. I know of a lot of guys who usually are used on a project, than are disposed of. My friend is wokring on a game right now in Australia, mentioned that it's quite common practice among big developers. Note there's every now and than you come across a website of a freelancer, that looks top quality, but they guy works per project, not full time.

Shame.

oblio

11-10-05, 03:13 PM

I read here that SH3 had only sold 26,000 copies world wide.I find that hard to believe. Does anyone know how many copies it did sell??Gamespot shows a release date of Q4 2006 for SH4.

IIRC 26,000 copies of SHIII were sold within the first (or first few) month of it's release. I have not seen any information regarding total sales figures.

Check out www.ubisoftgroup.com if you are interested in looking for more information.

ReM

11-10-05, 03:25 PM

There is NO freaking way that SHIII sold only 26000 copies! Maybe UBI did not get the sales figures they were targeting, but I am quite positive they sold more copies than 26000.......
Heck I bet subsim alone got more than 26000 new members just because of it (myself included!)
But seriously 26000 copies..........can't believe it.

Marhkimov

11-10-05, 03:38 PM

If SH3 did indeed sell 26,000 copies (or more), does that mean that 95% of those people have never been to subsim.com?

oblio

11-10-05, 04:19 PM

If SH3 did indeed sell 26,000 copies (or more), does that mean that 95% of those people have never been to subsim.com?

Well, on the assumption that half of the registered users on this forum have the game, you're looking at a value closer to 75%. However, that does not account for non-registered visitors to SubSim. But again we’re only talking about those first 26,000 copies. ;)

As for SH4, I can’t imagine UBISoft will be investing in another u-boat simulation anytime soon considering the size of console market. I would though, be willing to bet another WWII era submarine simulation will emerge within the next 6 years by a major player, not excluding UBISoft.

irish1958

11-10-05, 06:32 PM

If Ubisoft is, in fact, not interested do you think some of our wonderful moddlers could come up with a good pacific addition?

GlobalExplorer

11-11-05, 07:34 AM

If Ubisoft is, in fact, not interested do you think some of our wonderful moddlers could come up with a good pacific addition?

I had thought about taking this question to another thread, but it's probably too early.

I think it is possible. You probably will see american subs with the interior of the Type XXI and with american uniforms. There's no way somebody can do the correct interior.

Everything else, the subs hull, the Japanese vessels, campaign, speech files, etc, can be done imo. I'd guess it will take 1-2 years for this mod to appear tho.

irish1958

11-11-05, 09:48 AM

I don't feel so bad about not having a SHIV now. I know our modlers will come up with this. I'm not very computer smart, but if anyone is looking for someone to beta test this, keep me in mide.
Any English majors out there: is it moddlers, modlers, moders, or moderers?
irish1958

SteamWake

11-11-05, 10:07 AM

At one point in time not so long ago a group of modders began work on a "pacific" mod.

They were promptly asked to cease by the big Ubi themselves. Speculation at that time was that they were conflicting with a alleged expansion. I dident really follow all that went on with it but thats the paraphrased version.

Addressing the "half the registered forum members being shIII owners" keep in mind that the SH3 portion of these forums is a but one of MANY forums. Albeit an active portion but still only one of a dozen or so.

Still the sales figures of 26,000 does seem stunted. Prehaps thats just sales outside the US or something. I know the product did quite well in the US and dissapeared off the shelfs quite rapidly and the "sales season" is just beginning.