Crew transfers

[BladeHeart]

Does anyone know how frequently crew were transferred off a boat or were "lost" whilst on shore leave? :hmm:

Thanks :)

[Twitchy]

Usually it's not my crew you have to worry about rounding up, its ME. :hmm:

[BladeHeart]

Apart from the drink issue, I was wondering about transfers on promotion for the NCOs and seamen, etc.

[JScones]

I know Beery did some analysis when we built the current feature into SH3Cmdr...the one crewmen per patrol average is just about right I think.

In fact, SH3Cmdr may transfer a tad less than what really happened - I was concerned that a guaranteed crewman loss per patrol may be a bit too much for the general player, so we decreased the chances a bit (from 78-88% likelyhood down to 66% likelyhood of transfer per patrol).

In a transfer situation:
-there's an 11% chance the crewman will be an officer;
-a 22% chance the crewman will be a petty officer;
-and a 33% chance the crewman will be a sailor.

All roughly indicative of Beery's findings.

[BladeHeart]

Given that it was the SH3Cmdr transfer aspect I have been thinking about, that answers a few questions. :hmm:

Thanks

:lurk:

[Nedlam]

I wish my poor sailors where just transfered.

I've had one killed in a bar fight (right after i promoted him) and I've had two arrested for getting drunk. :)

I think I'm going to stop handing out schnapps after we sink a ship. My crew has a little drinking problem.

I do like the feature.

[BladeHeart]

Giving this some more thought, the rate of transfers has a direct effect on the type of fatique model used by us. So it is another case of ends rather then means.

One can select an unrealistic means in order to achieve a realistic end; ideally you would want both but some games......

[wetwarev7]

I wish my poor sailors where just transfered.

I've had one killed in a bar fight (right after i promoted him) and I've had two arrested for getting drunk. :)

I think I'm going to stop handing out schnapps after we sink a ship. My crew has a little drinking problem.

I do like the feature.

Oh! You're supposed to give them a drink AFTER you sink a ship? No wonder we have so many torp misses. :hmm:

I like the crew transfer feature as well.

[Beery]

I wish my poor sailors where just transfered.

I've had one killed in a bar fight (right after i promoted him) and I've had two arrested for getting drunk. :)

I think I'm going to stop handing out schnapps after we sink a ship. My crew has a little drinking problem.

I do like the feature.

I suggested to Jaesen that, as a bit of light relief, every non-transfer crew loss should be alcohol-related. I think Jaesen eventually chose some alcohol-related accidents and other non-alcohol-related ones. Anyway, non-transfer losses should be rare. You've just had a run of drinking-related bad luck.

A good thing about this feature is that it adds a bit of character to your crew. You can now imagine that your crew are a bunch of drunken misfits. Perhaps if they settle down after this, you can imagine that a guy who was recently promoted has instituted a bit of discipline. With the stock game we had no transfers and the crew were like cardboard cut-outs. With SH3 Commander they start acting like real people - now we can more easily imagine them with desires, character flaws and real lives.

[BladeHeart]

Did Seamen promoted to Petty Officers remain on the boat, or did they transfer on promotion?

For that matter were Petty Officers ever promted to officers?

[geopsun]

Here's a thought to add more flavor to SH3 Commander careers. If it could could be made to look at your last three patrols and evaluate how successful your boat has been recently... A crew of a successful boat is more likely to take pride in their work and be noticed by the BdU (transfers). A crew of a boat that isn't doing so well is more likely to lose crew to drunken bar fights and jail.

The real trick would be in appropriately measuring "success." Sending 10,000 tons to Davey Jones' Locker is a pretty good patrol in a Type II, but rather anemic for a Type VII.

[Marhkimov]

Just a thought, Beery / Jaesen...


Since you have implemented crew outgoing transfers, what about incoming transfers???

It could be done in the same random fashion. SH3Cmdr could check to see if the player has any available room remaining in his u-boat, and if there is room, a pop-up box could pop up asking the player to accept or deny the incoming transfer. And plus, I don't think this will be a very complicated thing to program.

IMOH, this sounds like a great idea, and it could even be dynamic. Cmdr could send more experienced crewmen to a u-boat full of inexperienced crewmen, and vice versa. It would only take simple sub-routines... For example, Cmdr could add up all of the total experience levels of a crew, and if that value were lower than a certain fixed number, then the player would be more likely receive highly qualified transfers. On the other hand, if the player has a highly experienced crew, then he would only receive "green" recruits/transfers.


I reeally hope you guys can implement this!!! :yep:




And another idea for dynamic drunkedness:

Have SH3Cmdr add up the total amount of experience points of the u-boat officers. I think you know where I am going with this idea...

The more experiece that your officers have, the less likely that your crew will go nuts and die in drunken bar fights...

And vice versa to the inexperiened and unrestrained crew. ;) :lol:

[BladeHeart]

Enlisting crew could be an interesting feature, but is that not already handled by SH3 and expenditure of renown?

Unless of course you are talking about receiving these crewmen for free and then dismissing them if you want, and purchasing as per normal.

Receiving Petty Officers with qualifications could be good, but I amnot sure it can be done on an automatic basis. :hmm:

:lurk:

[JBClark]

Just a thought, Beery / Jaesen...

And another idea for dynamic drunkedness:

Have SH3Cmdr add up the total amount of experience points of the u-boat officers. I think you know where I am going with this idea...

The more experiece that your officers have, the less likely that your crew will go nuts and die in drunken bar fights...

And vice versa to the inexperiened and unrestrained crew. ;) :lol:

But you know that the most uber-squared-away officers get that way at a price and will eventually go bat-****. Then it will be up to their crew to hustle them back to the boat or let them get fragged, depending on how much they love him. The possibillities are endless. :-j

[Marhkimov]

Enlisting crew could be an interesting feature, but is that not already handled by SH3 and expenditure of renown?

Unless of course you are talking about receiving these crewmen for free and then dismissing them if you want, and purchasing as per normal.

Receiving Petty Officers with qualifications could be good, but I amnot sure it can be done on an automatic basis. :hmm:

:lurk:

You'd be surprised. I pretty much know how SH3Cmdr works, and it can do just about anything... Besides, programming it so that we can receive qualified petty officers would be a real simple...

[coronas]

Changing crew members for many chances: Injuried in accidents or raids,
promotions, "send to East Front", desertions, .....There are many posibilities and give a new angle between patrols.

[Nedlam]

Here is an idea for a future release of Sub Commander:

I plan on playing a campaign from the 9/39 until the very end of the war (I'm only at 5/1940 now). But I’m using the Sub Commander features 1) realistic careers and 2) Career starting date. So when one captain dies/retires I move on to the next captain until the war ends.

So instead of transferring crew in IF your old captain retires you have your new captain transfer in and take over the U-Boat and crew? I’m sure it happened in RL.

PS: Lost another crewmen to being drunk and disorderly... Sure I told them to celebrate after we got that anchored taskforce but come on!?!?!? :)

[JScones]

Here is an idea for a future release of Sub Commander:

I plan on playing a campaign from the 9/39 until the very end of the war (I'm only at 5/1940 now). But I’m using the Sub Commander features 1) realistic careers and 2) Career starting date. So when one captain dies/retires I move on to the next captain until the war ends.

So instead of transferring crew in IF your old captain retires you have your new captain transfer in and take over the U-Boat and crew? I’m sure it happened in RL.
Continuing "retired" careers with new Commanders is on my to do list. It won't make the next release, as it requires a lot of work.

[JScones]

Changing crew members for many chances: Injuried in accidents or raids,
promotions, "send to East Front", desertions, .....There are many posibilities and give a new angle between patrols.
If you start talking raids, then you start talking taking out large chunks of your crew in one go. May be realistic in the later years...I don't know...but definitely not the early years.

[Nedlam]

After I read my post I realized you sorta can already change captains with Sub Commander. It would take a little work on the players part but if you copy all the names, ranks, medals and qualifications of every member of your crew using the edit crew feature you can pop them into your new crew (at least I think you can).

You can also keep the same U-Boat number. I suppose if you have any points from the naval accademy you can probably re-vamp the U-Boat with all the stuff you added onto it (if any) to what it was from your first campaign.

[BladeHeart]

Needlam

Your suggestion is something has come up before, I know because I raised it. ;)

JScones indicated that it is to be included in the next(ish) version of SH3 Cmdr. :up:

There is a need to balance the number of crew could loose from this function in SH3 Cmdr. What do you all think should be the average and maximum num,ber of crew lost/ transferred between any 2 patrols? :hmm:

[coronas]

Changing crew members for many chances: Injuried in accidents or raids,
promotions, "send to East Front", desertions, .....There are many posibilities and give a new angle between patrols.
If you start talking raids, then you start talking taking out large chunks of your crew in one go. May be realistic in the later years...I don't know...but definitely not the early years.

WWII is so long...Only ideas for changing members. And returns crew members after hospital, arrests or promotions?

[BladeHeart]

Like the idea of returning crew; assuming that SH3 Cmdr could do that? :up:

JScones?
:lurk:

[Nedlam]

Well, I did it. It sorta works. My first captain got transfered to training after 10 missions and a new captain arrived.

U-18 was U-19 for the first mission and all the sailors decided to play a trick on the new captain and tell him fake names but other than and an experience problem everything was okay (you can't update your crew until after the first mission).

My first mission was awful but I'll chaulk it up to a captain and crew getting to know each other. :) Second mission (after the changes) was a lot better.

[JScones]

After I read my post I realized you sorta can already change captains with Sub Commander. It would take a little work on the players part but if you copy all the names, ranks, medals and qualifications of every member of your crew using the edit crew feature you can pop them into your new crew (at least I think you can).

You can also keep the same U-Boat number. I suppose if you have any points from the naval accademy you can probably re-vamp the U-Boat with all the stuff you added onto it (if any) to what it was from your first campaign.
Continuing a career with a new Commander is relatively easy to do manually, if not a little bit fiddly. It only takes about six changes. Automating the process, while not hard to do, just takes time (I wish I could just record a macro to do it :damn:). I have a process in mind which will make the transition seamless, with the only change being the advancement of the current career date to the 1st of the following month - which is an SH3 limitation.

I must stress, in case it is not obvious, that continuing a retired career with a new Commander is in fact the same as starting a *new* career, with the exception that you keep the same crew, sub, sub no and flotilla of the existing career. Ship tonnage will *not* roll over, as it is linked to the retired Commander. Your retired career will still exist in its own right. Your new career will start from patrol 1, with no ships sunk. Just wanting to set expectations as some people may be thinking that such a feature is linked to the sub or crew - but in reality it didn't work that way. ;)

FYI new research from Beery suggests that retired commanders were often replaced by the 1WO. So this may be part of the feature too.

WWII is so long...Only ideas for changing members. And returns crew members after hospital, arrests or promotions?
Research suggests that if a crewman of yours is arrested or ends up in hospital, they will return to a different boat, not back to the one whence they came.

Like the idea of returning crew; assuming that SH3 Cmdr could do that? :up:
It could, but my dancecard is pretty full at the moment. Beery and I are working on some "bigger impacting" features, plus looking at your crew transfer *out* model first. :lol: