RUb1.43 to RUb1.44: map contacts

[Scared Bunny]

I first played RUb 1.43 + Commander on 100%, and I now play RUb1.44 + Commander on 100%. Interception of convoys, and especially shadowing a convoy and determining its exact heading was quite a challenge, but with 1.44 it seems that single ship contacts are back and individual ships are now displayed on the map. The reason for this ofcourse that the automatic map updat is on, as suggested in the RUb readme.

This has made the game rediculously easy. I have a interception succes rate of about 75% on single ship contacts, and they always sink once intercepted. Convoys are tougher, but once inside the destroyer screen it is rediculously easy to determine heading, because all you need to do is mark each ship that is sailing in a row, connect the markers with a line and presto there is you heading.

Using the stadimeter is no longer neccesary, and it was the stadimeter that created the measurement error to create the occasional miss. It also made rough weather attacks almost impossible from ranges longer then 800 meters.

So why the change?

What would I lose if I turned automatic map update off? The sonar bearing markers, right? That would be annoying since they are very handy in convoy attacks.

[oRGy]

The readme details the files changed I believe. There's only two of them. You can copy back the 1.43 versions if they bother you.

[Beery]

The change was made because with version 1.43 you couldn't get any single ship contacts at all. This was skewing the results of patrols and making convoy interceptions virtually the only way to get tonnage.

[Scared Bunny]

The readme details the files changed I believe. There's only two of them. You can copy back the 1.43 versions if they bother you.

I'll have a look at it.

The change was made because with version 1.43 you couldn't get any single ship contacts at all. This was skewing the results of patrols and making convoy interceptions virtually the only way to get tonnage.

I see. Still, I sink about two to four single contacts per patrol; they make up the larger part of the kills. That's excessive. Are the single contacts still work in progress?

And my bigger question was why the individual ships pop up as icons in the main map? To have perfectly accurate information of the position of every ship in a convoy, I just enter the convoy submurged, or preferably let the covoy sail over me, then pop up my scope, and every single ship is then represented on the main map as either a square (cargo) or a diamond (warship). There is no longer any use for manual measurement. :-?

[ICBM]

I like this system, it simulates that your nav officer is drawing out the enemy positions while you are gathering date tru the scope.

A Kaleun can't do everything himself.

[oblio]

Scared Bunny I got your fix right here...

Open up the file named Contacts.cfg (../data/cfg/) and edit the following line in the file as shown.

FROM:
Decay Time For Precise Sensor Contacts=60 ;[>0] seconds

TO:
Decay Time For Precise Sensor Contacts=0 ;[>0] seconds


This will prevent the ship identifier from showing on the map view when the contact is within visible range, and should give you a reason to use manual plotting again. (however, this fix can cause problems in rough seas with your stadimeter, and it may not work since you will loose your contact whenever waves / water cover your scope... there is more on this topic in the forum)

[Beery]

...This will prevent the ship identifier from showing on the map view when the contact is within visible range...

Doesn't it also remove the distant (so-called 'opportunity') radio contacts?

[Enfilade]

For my part, I am now 'ignoring' any single ship radio contacts displayed on the map. Incidentally, this is the policy of 21st Flotilla, which I have just joined. I will only pursue single ship contacts if I detect them on the hydrophone or visually. It's a much better challenge imho. This hasn't stopped me from sinking lots of single merchants in my current patrol (Dec '39).

[Beery]

So you don't simulate any radio contacts? Does 21st Flotilla have any evidence that shows that U-boat interception of enemy merchant traffic broadcasts was not a factor in finding targets?

[oblio]

...This will prevent the ship identifier from showing on the map view when the contact is within visible range...

Doesn't it also remove the distant (so-called 'opportunity') radio contacts?

I'm still receiving distant contact reports of ships, so I would assume the radio contacts functionality is still working.

[Enfilade]

So you don't simulate any radio contacts? Does 21st Flotilla have any evidence that shows that U-boat interception of enemy merchant traffic broadcasts was not a factor in finding targets?

I can't speak for the Flotilla ..after all, I'm just a new recruit and haven't even started my first patrol yet...lol. But from my understanding, their position is that most radio intercepts were in relation to convoys and not single merchants. Thus, convoy radio intercepts showing on the nav map are fine. I don't have the knowledge to debate this either way. My own decision to ignore single merchant radio contacts is more game-based... it's too easy to just head for the contact and kill the merchant...especially when you're given the course heading, estimaed speed of target, etc. I prefer to do that manually for the challenge. This ain't a criticism of RuB, which I couldn't be more enthusiastic about. Just my own style of play.

[Beery]

I'd love to get some kind of source for this. The radio contact part of the game has always been a bit of a mystery for me. I've never seen any reference to picking up radio broadcasts. If I could get some sort of info on it I'd be better able to tweak RUb to be more realistic. If any of the folks at 21st Flotilla (or anyone else) can weigh in on this, that would be great.

[Enfilade]

I will mention the topic to them over there and perhaps Eric or somebody else at the helm will post on it here. Alternatively, in case you want to cut to the chase yourself, the website is: http://www.sturmgruppewulf.co.uk/sh3did/ Hope this helps.

[Enfilade]

Beery, here's the relevant thread (dates back to April I think) over at 21st Flotilla forums... sounds like you should discuss with Siggi over there... hope this helps.

http://www.sturmgruppewulf.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=196

[Scared Bunny]

Scared Bunny I got your fix right here...

Open up the file named Contacts.cfg (../data/cfg/) and edit the following line in the file as shown.

FROM:
Decay Time For Precise Sensor Contacts=60 ;[>0] seconds

TO:
Decay Time For Precise Sensor Contacts=0 ;[>0] seconds


This will prevent the ship identifier from showing on the map view when the contact is within visible range, and should give you a reason to use manual plotting again. (however, this fix can cause problems in rough seas with your stadimeter, and it may not work since you will loose your contact whenever waves / water cover your scope... there is more on this topic in the forum)

Thanks! :D Now how do I cook it and put it in a needle... :P

[Beery]

Beery, here's the relevant thread (dates back to April I think) over at 21st Flotilla forums... sounds like you should discuss with Siggi over there... hope this helps.

http://www.sturmgruppewulf.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=196

That thread seems to be talking about orders from BdU. There were certainly no single ship contact reports from BdU regarding individual merchants. I'm talking about radio messages from the merchant to other merchants or to land, that were intercepted by the U-boat. I think that's what the single ship contacts represent. There was a lot of discussion about this a few months ago, and a lot of people assumed that these must be coming from BdU, but I don't think that's the case.

[Observer]

Just because you intercept a radio message from a single merchant, does not necessarily mean you know the location of that merchant.

If the unencrypted message gave position information, then I suppose you would know, but due to the long range associated with short wave radio the player should stand the chance of intercepting messages from much longer range than the current 300 km represented in SH3. Another thing to remember is these are intercepted messages and should be fairly rare (not impossible, but also not common). SH3 single merchant ship posit reports are for too common to represent intercepted messages.

This is speculation because I don't have a historical reference to support this, but I would imagine very few routine messages, with posit reports, were sent in the clear. What kind of messages would an ocean going merchant need to send while in the middle of the Atlantic? Other than requests for weather perhaps, and a general position/schedule (i.e. Lat and Long...x days/hours outbound from xxx), or emergencies (such as SSS), I can't think of anything. I would imagine the most rudimentary form of encryption would be used even in these cases. This should have been sufficient to thwart efforts from a uboat to use the message to locate the ship.

Most radio traffic would happen very close port when just a few hours inbound, not in the middle of the ocean. Finally even if a posit report were transmitted in the clear, navigational errors and uncertainty would have added dozens of kms to this location resulting in very uncertain intercepts as opposed to the near certainty we see today in SH3.

If the uboat just intercepted the message without any position information, the uboat would have to DF the location of the ship requiring continuous transmission from the target, or multiple message intercepts. Given the long range (due to atmospheric conditions) short wave radio could travel and the laws of probability, this seems like a low probability of method for sinking merchant ships and would certainly not be worth the effort. This assumes uboats of the time had DF equipment, something I don't think was true.

From my reading, single ship encounters were random events usually spotted by the watch crew. I have not read of a single instance where uboats intercepted single merchants based on intercepted radio traffic. Granted there are a whole bunch of books I haven't read. I can't imagine BdU spending the time or effort to radio single ship contacts unless they were extremely important. Other assets such as aircraft or other shipping might, but not BdU. Would they send the message in the clear, or use Naval Enigma? A uboat would not be able to decrypt a Luftwaffe Red transmission with a Naval Enigma machine, codes and procedures.

I think this argues against rather than for single ship merchants on the nav plot. To balance this though, I think visibility must be increased beyond the standard 8 km in fair weather. Fortunately, while not perfect, there already is a mod for this.

[Hartmann]

The fw Condors where used as a air recon plataforms in the atlantic. Also i think that single ships or convois repports is realistic. i found this in u-boat.net.

"In mid-1941 a change of tactics occurred. The Fw 200 crews were now instructed not to attack, and to evade all combat unless unavoidable. The Condors were used to report allied shipping movements. To guide the U-boats to the convoys they shadowed they transmitted direction finding signal, but they did not directly communicate with the submarines. This was a more effective use of the available numbers, and it also helped to conserve the aircraft"

http://www.uboat.net/technical/fw200.htm

[baxter]

I've always felt that the single ship contacts showing up was necessary to compensate for the limited visibility. Type IX boats sunk many single merchants and, from what I've read, usually spotted them while on the surface. In SH III without single ship contacts being shown its nearly impossible to have an historically realistic patrol in a type IX.

[Keelbuster]

I just installed Rub 1.43 and started a new career. The lack of single ship contacts was a little different, but it hasn't cost me tonnage. In fact, I'm starting to think it's better to keep a steady course and take what comes to you rather than go searching way off course for single merchant contacts. Every 30 mins or so I do a sound check, and in places like the Channel or Irish sea there are lots of medium to large merchant contacts. By keeping a steady course in a busy shipping lane, I think I have been running into more tonnage. My previous career - the coastal merchant chasing program - was probably a waste of fuel. Let the merchant come to you.

About the radio contacts themselves, I assumed they were intercepted - because when you send a contact report, they get sent along baack to bdu (at least for larger contacts like tfs)- why would we return info they had sent out to us?

[don1reed]

I don't know if any of you recognized the hand-wheel located in the radio room (Funkraum). Although you cannot rotate it in SH3, but in real life the hand-wheel was for rotating the bridge-mounted direction-finding loop. The receiver it was attached to was the Type T3PLLä38.

Before electronic security became an issue, i.e., "Loose Lips, Sink Ships", (early war) the merchant ships that had radiomen/telegraphers on board sent lots of H&W messages (Health and Welfare). The commercial (merchant) spectrum of the HF band were generally high-speed CW (22-35wpm), and they were extremely busy--talkative, regarding bills of lading, cargo, personnel inquires. The radiomen aboard the merchant vessels stood the same rotating 4 hour watches for a reason.

The shipping lines had their own freqs. with Net Control and sometimes when radio ops of various ships wanted to pass private traffic between each other, the ops would go up or down in freq a few kHz to reestablish commo just to BS. SIGNAL security was unheard of then...just as today...think a moment what you pass as traffic on your cellphones. :yep:

The main commerical freqs. were between 100 kHz and 1.5 MHz. The U-Boat funkers monitored enemy ship-ship signals; enemy commercial signals, and also the aforementioned loop for DF.

Today it's done with satcom internet.

[don1reed]

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