Where is that SDK???

[Marhkimov]

Everyone wants it, yet Ubisoft won't give it... I am simply asking WHY???

Perhaps they don't want people meddling with SH3 and turning it into the ultimate subsim, thereby requiring that once SH4 comes out, we'll all be forced to upgrade? Well, if that is how they think, then they'd be real foolish... Which is why I hope I'm not right...

Anyone else have any thoughts/ideas?

[Col7777]

If you remember SH2 when it was released, then think of it after all the mods. There was a lot done to it to make it a lot better, it wasn't perfect but we did have a lot of stuff improved.
If you look at SH3 a lot of that stuff from SH2 they have tried to include, yes a lot they missed out too, but you are right, given a bit more freedom to mod this sim they may have got a good back-bone for SH4.

[Marhkimov]

Yeah... I'm thinking the more Ubisoft gives us the freedom to modify SH3, the more "ideas" they'll have for SH4. I mean, come on, how could giving us the SDK have a negative impact on them? All we sub-simmers want to do is play!! :yep:

Maybe they're afraid of the high standards we'll set???

wussies :down:

[CCIP]

Maybe they're afraid of the high standards we'll set???

wussies :down:

Well... of course! Look at it with a bit of sympathy for the devs - they're just a small, modestly-funded little team going on very tight limits (they don't give you much to develop sims, we all know that). They have a snowball's chance in hell of competing with the mod community as we know it here - no doubt, the level of enthusiasm, creativity and dedication here is easily one of the highest in any game's mod communities. With an SDK, this game would likely be finished and quickly - and by finished I mean not only the core SHIII play, but the capabilities of the engine as a whole.

Net result? Devs can't compete. Devs won't get development money. Devs need to live on something too.

So, I would LOVE an SDK. Love love love. But I darn well know we're not getting it until SHIV at least.

That said, I'll be very pissed and feel screwed-over if there's never either an SHIV or an SDK (or both). :hmm:

[FAdmiral]

After all the dust settles, its still the bottom line ($$$) that
rules all the future actions.....


JIM

[TreverSlyFox]

Let me ask a couple of questions here if I may. I'm not a computer language uber so there are a couple things I don't understand.

First, what the H3LL is SDK? I keep seeing it but no one has ever said what SDK is.


Second, there can't be that many computer languages the engine could be written in so why hasn't this thing been cracked by someone here that knows programing. Or am I really showing my ignorance here and they actually did write it in a new language that no one else knows?

[Type941]

Let me ask a couple of questions here if I may. I'm not a computer language uber so there are a couple things I don't understand.

First, what the H3LL is SDK? I keep seeing it but no one has ever said what SDK is.


Second, there can't be that many computer languages the engine could be written in so why hasn't this thing been cracked by someone here that knows programing. Or am I really showing my ignorance here and they actually did write it in a new language that no one else knows?

Software developer's kit is SDK . But I would also expect more people with language knowledge to have a look at this on their own, since I sincerely have doubts about any type of SDK released for the community ever.

[CCIP]

First, what the H3LL is SDK? I keep seeing it but no one has ever said what SDK is.

SDK = Software Developer's Kit

A set of tools that would allow us access to the game data and/or code. The access to SHIII data is presently very limited and requires a lot of hard work and plain guessing on the part of the modders, since none of the tools the developers used for making the game (besides the mission editor) are available to us.
The game code is not only closed, but protected, which brings me to...


Second, there can't be that many computer languages the engine could be written in so why hasn't this thing been cracked by someone here that knows programing. Or am I really showing my ignorance here and they actually did write it in a new language that no one else knows?
Cracked or not, doesn't matter, because the game code is protected by Starforce. The game will NOT start if the code is altered.

It may be theoretically (and maybe even practically) crack Starforce, but this would be illegal on all terms. We're modders, not pirates :hmm:

[kiwi_2005]

I hope SH4 doesn't come out for at least another 5 yrs from now, cos i reckon by then i'll probably be tired of SH3 and will start wishing for 4 to come along. Why are we wishing for SH4 to come out so soon when we got SH3. Whats gonna happen when SH4 comes out? Were be wishing SH5 is coming out.

Imagine in a couple of yrs from now there be so many mods for this game and if were lucky the SDK would be out meaning more super modding or a USA Sub Campaign even.

I aint wishing for SH4, I got SH3 therefore i dont need it :rock:

[gdogghenrikson]

I hope SH4 doesn't come out for at least another 5 yrs from now, cos i reckon by then i'll probably be tired of SH3 and will start wishing for 4 to come along. Why are we wishing for SH4 to come out so soon when we got SH3. Whats gonna happen when SH4 comes out? Were be wishing SH5 is coming out.

Imagine in a couple of yrs from now there be so many mods for this game and if were lucky the SDK would be out meaning more super modding or a USA Sub Campaign even.

I aint wishing for SH4, I got SH3 therefore i dont need it :rock:

I totally agree!

[benetofski]

From the posts I've read over the last few months and what has been said in this thread, UBISOFT still consider this product's life cycle as 'not yet over' therefore it is still generating revenue for them (CASH COW) and their marketing Company.

We are simply the lower levels of the 'gaming pecking order' and while it was deemed ok for them to solicit our great ideas and comments in the beginning (obtained from various forums) as a replacement for SH2 (which - correct me if I'm wrong - UBISOFT didnt even write!) they promptly created a game (albeit a good game!) that they knew had a captive audience and then went ahead and secured all the modifiable features by STARFORCE so that they would have total marketing control!

As far as an SDK is concerned - forget it -the tight-asses that control UBISOFT will never PERMIT the users to modify or improve their basic game - IT IS LOCKED TIGHT - <EDIT>


The best approach (subsimmers) for the future is NOT TO BUY SH4, and NOT TO VOLUNTEER OR SUBMIT IDEAS IN FORUMS solicited by UBISOFT (for example 'What would you like to see in SH4') come on! - are you that stupid that you want to help them exploit us further?

Ask them outright do they plan to offera SDK to the community! - if they edge around the subject post a warning in the forum along these lines

"UBISOFT PLAN TO LOCK NEW GAMES AND RESTRICT COMMUNITY MOD IMPROVEMENTS BY NOT OFFERING AN SDK" that should get their attention....!

UBISOFT have raped and pillaged the SUBSIM community for ideas and feedback and now (have you noticed?) have gone VERY QUIET!

Microsoft an the other hand openly offer a SDK to their FS series - so what's the big deal UBISOFT?????

Will I buy another UBISOFT product - NO!
Will I buy another SF Protected Product - NO!

[John Channing]

From the posts I've read over the last few months and what has been said in this thread, UBISOFT still consider this product's life cycle as 'not yet over' therefore it is still generating revenue for them (CASH COW) and their marketing Company.

We are simply the lower levels of the 'gaming pecking order' and while it was deemed ok for them to solicit our great ideas and comments in the beginning (obtained from various forums) as a replacement for SH2 (which - correct me if I'm wrong - UBISOFT didnt even write!) they promptly created a game (albeit a good game!) that they knew had a captive audience and then went ahead and secured all the modifiable features by STARFORCE so that they would have total marketing control!

As far as an SDK is concerned - forget it -the tight-asses that control UBISOFT will never PERMIT the users to modify or improve their basic game - IT IS LOCKED TIGHT - <EDIT>

The best approach (subsimmers) for the future is NOT TO BUY SH4, and NOT TO VOLUNTEER OR SUBMIT IDEAS IN FORUMS solicited by UBISOFT (for example 'What would you like to see in SH4') come on! - are you that stupid that you want to help them exploit us further?

Ask them outright do they plan to offera SDK to the community! - if they edge around the subject post a warning in the forum along these lines

"UBISOFT PLAN TO LOCK NEW GAMES AND RESTRICT COMMUNITY MOD IMPROVEMENTS BY NOT OFFERING AN SDK" that should get their attention....!

UBISOFT have raped and pillaged the SUBSIM community for ideas and feedback and now (have you noticed?) have gone VERY QUIET!

Microsoft an the other hand openly offer a SDK to their FS series - so what's the big deal UBISOFT?????

Will I buy another UBISOFT product - NO!
Will I buy another SF Protected Product - NO!

A couple of comments about not only the substance, but also the tone of your post.

First the tone.

We don't flame anyone here... individuals, groups or especially developers.

Why especially? Because they are the lifeblood of our hobby. If UbiSoft had not decided to invest hundreds of thousands of their shareholder's dollars into the 3 year development cycle that lead to SH3 then there would be no SH 3... period. No other developer is willing to invest the money that UbiSoft has to develop one. Not EA, not MS.. no one.

Now Neal has spent a lot of time and money to make this the type if site that developers can come to to solicit input from their customer base and feel welome while they do it. When I look around at some of the Flight-sim boards and see how developers are treated it makes me sick. I guess that some people really believe that they can increase their own sense of self worth by denigrating others.

Now before you start typing understand that this isn't kissing their asses... it is simply enlightened self interest. If we have a method of getting input into the simulations that are the heart and soul of or hobby why would we toss that opportunity away with childish rants and absurd hyperbole.

Anyway agree or not.. that's not going to happen here. Not on my watch.

Now on to the substance.

UbiSoft is a for profit compny that has a responsibility to their shareholders to make a return on investment. As I already stated they have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into SH3 so why shouldn't they make a healthy profit on it? Personally I hope they make millions because that would drive them to put out even more simulations of this type, and that is good for me. Get it? Enlightened self interest again.

You seem to have some problem with developers soliciting feedback from their customers. This has me scatching my head. Firstly, as far as I know, no one from Ubisoft showed up at anyone's door and beat the snot out of them demanding ideas for SH3. People offered their siuggestions up of their own accord in the hopes of creating a better simulation. And it worked.

Secondly would you rather that they developed SH3 entirely in isolation without any concern about their customers. If so then I hope you haven't played the dynamic campaign because that feature is in there entirely due to the feedback from their customers... a lot of it from this very site.

Item 2 on my list is your mistaken notion that Starforce has something to do with modifications. It doesn't. If you are going to indulge youself in accusations please at least be accurate about them.

Next we come to your suggestion about the use of hacking tools. One more instance of that and you will have to find another board to post on, becasue this one will no longer be available to you.

So, in conclusion, if you feel that a developer has raped and pillaged you because they sought your input into the core product of your hobby, perhaps another hobby might be in order.

And no more name calling, flaming or hacking advise. Perhaps a few minutes with the FAQ might be a worthwhile investment of time.

JCC

[gdogghenrikson]

[quote="benetofski"]The best approach (subsimmers) for the future is NOT TO BUY SH4, and NOT TO VOLUNTEER OR SUBMIT IDEAS IN FORUMS solicited by UBISOFT (for example 'What would you like to see in SH4') come on! - are you that stupid that you want to help them exploit us further?

Ask them outright do they plan to offera SDK to the community! - if they edge around the subject post a warning in the forum along these lines

"UBISOFT PLAN TO LOCK NEW GAMES AND RESTRICT COMMUNITY MOD IMPROVEMENTS BY NOT OFFERING AN SDK" that should get their attention....!

UBISOFT have raped and pillaged the SUBSIM community for ideas and feedback and now (have you noticed?) have gone VERY QUIET!


I totally agree

[martes86]

What do you prefer? SDK or new naval games for years and years?
SDKs are usually released when there's an intention of the game lasting a long time with lots of improvements and modifications. This may also mean no new commercial sequels until the graphics engine is practically obsolete. Why to make new games when everything is being made on the old one?
On the other hand, no SDKs are released when new games are being planned. It would be a waste of time and money working on something that may be finished by modders even before the new game is out.

I would be happy if a SDK was released, but I don't spend all the time whining about it. :nope:

[gdogghenrikson]

What do you prefer? SDK or new naval games for years and years?

It's not that I dont want new naval games, sh4 is coming out next year...and Sh3 is only like 5 monthes old

[kiwi_2005]

This SDK.

The games "NEXUS The Jupiter Incident" and "Ground Control 2", i just downloaded the SDK for both games and now these games are as mod-able as i want them to be. Both games are about 15months old, before the dev dicided to put the sdk up for DL. So maybe Ubisoft will when this game gets a little older.

Anyways i see alot of predictions when or whether the SDK is gonna come out. But why don't the moderators of this site, or Neal Stevens ask Ubisoft Romania to put a reply to this SDK question on Subsim. whether the SDK will or will not be coming out.

Then we're all know for certain, instead of guessing.

[benetofski]

Mr Channing:

Why is it that certain types of people always jump to conclusions?

Next we come to your suggestion about the use of hacking tools

I see that you edited my exact words from the post - presumably so that you could iterate your own apparent abhoration of hacking!

Well, for those of you that now think I am a hacker - I am not - never have been - never will be - and I take offence to your suggestions (by ommission of my text) that I participate in this practice....

I had NEVER mentioned even the availability??? of hacking tools - YOU did that Mr Channing!

My response to the original post might have been a little 'passionate' as I still feel that and SDK should have been made available, given that there is such a huge SubSim Community.

Anyway, Mr Channing you have made your 'moderator' point and of course I will comply with it's content (which BTW I do 'get') and I am now 'in awe' of your power on this board - particularly during 'your watch'

[John Channing]

Mr Channing:


I had NEVER mentioned even the availability??? of hacking tools - YOU did that Mr Channing!



Don't try to be cute.

You did more than mention it, you named a tool that could be used to decompile the .exe, gave it a recommendation, and encouraged people to use it to hack Silent Hunter 3.

These are not my rules, they are Neals. I simply enforce them.

JCC

[Gizzmoe]

I had NEVER mentioned even the availability??? of hacking tools - YOU did that Mr Channing!

If you like I can send you a PM with your original, unedited post. That would certainly cure your memory loss... ;)

[america person]

give it up man, and just enjoy the game

[pampanito]

The best approach (subsimmers) for the future is NOT TO BUY SH4, and NOT TO VOLUNTEER OR SUBMIT IDEAS IN FORUMS solicited by UBISOFT (for example 'What would you like to see in SH4') come on! - are you that stupid that you want to help them exploit us further?

UBISOFT have raped and pillaged the SUBSIM community for ideas and feedback and now (have you noticed?) have gone VERY QUIET!

Will I buy another UBISOFT product - NO!

Not to buy SH4?!? Are you serious? I will jump for it as soon as it hits the shelves. If that's being stupid, I swear I am. :rock:

Come on, if you have been on PC simulations for as long as most of us, you surely have seen a lot of really CRAP games (unfinished, broken, unplayable...) and mostly in a time when there was no Net, no patches, no forums. I even remember a game about ancient Rome which ALWAYS crashed when enemy armies met in the map (imagine trying to rule the Roman Empire without declaring war on anyone for fear of a CTD!).
Things are somewhat better now, but still you get a lot of games unstable or unplayable, even after patches are released (I will not mention actual names, every one can make his own list of infamous strategy / simulations).
In this environment, you can't feel cheated by UBISOFT. The game is playable and enjoyable out of the box, and the four official patches have left us a stable and most satisfying simulation. Just add RUb for realism, and you have it. Could it have been better? Sure, and there are the Modders (hats off to them all) still giving us more and more.

I certainly think the bucks I gave to UBISOFT have been well spent. Few games have seen me playing till 2 a.m. for several days on a row. And if they release SH4, they will certainly have at least one (stupid) buyer.

[oRGy]

The mod community should get together and contribute to an open source subsim if they're serious about anything other than the crumbs the corporate bosses throw from the table.

dangerdeep.sourceforge.net is a good start.

But of course, that would require work, wouldn't it?

[John Channing]

The mod community should get together and contribute to an open source subsim if they're serious about anything other than the crumbs the corporate bosses throw from the table.

dangerdeep.sourceforge.net is a good start.

But of course, that would require work, wouldn't it?

You think Silent Hunter 3 and Dangerous Waters are CRUMBS?

Amazing.

However your suggestion does have merit in the fact that a lot of people that think that programming a simulation is easy would change their tune very quickly.

JCC

[martes86]

It's not that I dont want new naval games, sh4 is coming out next year...and Sh3 is only like 5 monthes old

And because SH4 is coming out, that's why we don't get a SDK. If we got a SDK (and depending on the grade of modificability), we may become abandoned, not getting a new game in years. As I said, SDKs are usually released when no sequels are planned in short term. If we don't get an SDK, it's probably because that new SH4 will have the same engine as SH3, so it may be released with SH4, or it may never be released.
Anyways, that first sentence I wrote was just a question just to know what thing you preferred. I would prefer a SDK (or a new Destroyer Command) and not an SH4 so soon. I haven't even finished a campaign yet! :nope:

[Seeadler]

On the other hand, no SDKs are released when new games are being planned.
There was a SDK released for Brothers in Arms (also published by Ubisoft) and now the Devs doing the sequel of BiA for Ubisoft. ;)

[OneTinSoldier]

The mod community should get together and contribute to an open source subsim if they're serious about anything other than the crumbs the corporate bosses throw from the table.

dangerdeep.sourceforge.net is a good start.

But of course, that would require work, wouldn't it?

I haven't taken a look at this dangerdeep. But I like MS FS2004 quite a bit. I have a lot of payware addons for it, and a lot of freeware addons as well. (I made a couple of small freeware ones that are really quite small, more like edits. People liked 'em! :) )

I took a look at the open source equivalent, Flight Gear, www.flightgear.org After using FS2004 i said to myself, NO WAY!

I love the Linux OS and I applaud the efforts and the work of freeware open source developers. But imo, some free open source software just isn't up to the standards that professionally made payware is, so if I want it I pay for it. (the Linux OS is up to my standards ;) ) I might take a look at that dangerdeep but I have the feeling it will be like when I had a look at Flight Gear, that SHIII is more than just crumbs from a coporate table.

Take note that I talk about my standards, not anyone elses.

Depending on who you are, developing free open source software involves either taking 'work' or it is 'fun and enjoyment'. The same could be probably be said about payware development. If you find it fun and enjoyable then go for it!

As far as an SDK for SHIII all I will say is... I don't know if one was promised. But if one was promised then they should have delivered it and I can understand a complaint about it not being delivered as promised. If it was not promised then there is not all that much use in complaining that there isn't one.

Regards,

OneTinSoldier

[John Channing]

There was never a promise, or even a suggestion. In fact the Dev team has consistently said there would not be one.

JCC

[Seeadler]

There was never a promise, or even a suggestion.
Official SH3 Homepage -> DevCorner ;)

In addition, as a welcome bonus, we intend to make the max source file including the tile kit available for the community. You will be able to improve it, expand it and update it (poly count, landmark buildings, new port locations, etc.). Practically, the kit will never fall into obsolescence as long as there will be a Silent Hunter III community.

[martes86]

There was a SDK released for Brothers in Arms (also published by Ubisoft) and now the Devs doing the sequel of BiA for Ubisoft. ;)

Well, maybe it depends also if the game is going to sell big or not. :hmm:
Oh, and well quoted that promise. :up:

[John Channing]

There was never a promise, or even a suggestion.
Official SH3 Homepage -> DevCorner ;)

In addition, as a welcome bonus, we intend to make the max source file including the tile kit available for the community. You will be able to improve it, expand it and update it (poly count, landmark buildings, new port locations, etc.). Practically, the kit will never fall into obsolescence as long as there will be a Silent Hunter III community.

There is a big difference between that and a full software development kit. An SDK along the lines of what is being discussed (demanded by some) here would mean opening up the source code for development, not simply modding the landscape.

Frankly, after seeing the fiasco that Falcon 4.0 turned into, I would just as soon leave the development of future iterations of this franchise in the hands of the development group.

JCC

[kiwi_2005]

why are they making a SH4 so early? SH3 is still a playable game and it will take me around 5 yrs before i tire of it. Is SH4 a different Campaign like the US subs or will it still be Uboats. I think they're making a big mistake bringing SH4 out this early. Players are still getting into SH3. They should wait for at least 3 yrs from now. Im happy just playing SH3

[gdogghenrikson]

why are they making a SH4 so early? SH3 is still a playable game and it will take me around 5 yrs before i tire of it. Is SH4 a different Campaign like the US subs or will it still be Uboats. I think they're making a big mistake bringing SH4 out this early. Players are still getting into SH3. They should wait for at least 3 yrs from now. Im happy just playing SH3

I totally agree

[oRGy]

I haven't taken a look at this dangerdeep. But I like MS FS2004 quite a bit.

I love the Linux OS and I applaud the efforts and the work of freeware open source developers. But imo, some free open source software just isn't up to the standards that professionally made payware is, so if I want it I pay for it.

Depending on who you are, developing free open source software involves either taking 'work' or it is 'fun and enjoyment'. The same could be probably be said about payware development. If you find it fun and enjoyable then go for it!


Dangerdeep is certainly in a primitive state at the moment. But that's what happens with open development. How can you expect something to be a finished product, when its not even a product but rather non-alienated labour?

All I'm saying is that its foolish to demand things from developers who will only be going after what gives them profit, as they are owned by large corporations.

If you really care about your subject, get involved in the process of production yourself - and that means either set up your own little company (very hard but can be done, e.g. sonalysts) or contribute to an open-source subsim - but its much harder to whinge at "lazy" developers when you see for yourself how hard it is to put together something that is put together well.

[Seeadler]

There is a big difference between that and a full software development kit.
I know the difference very well because I develop since 15 years business software with such real SDKs. ;)

But the community people wishes from Ubisoft exactly such a tool collection which enables unique and new content (e.g. new models, landscapes etc..) like they can do with such SDKs or better called MDKs (mod development kit) for other games.

Most here do not like Electronic Arts because of their firm politics, but those recognized together with Dice very fast the potential of their customers and have released a MDK for Battlefield 1942 still during the patch and AddOn phase. Only with that MDK it was possible to do a full conversion mod like Desert Combat and few people specially bought Battlefield only to play this mod. I think, without the DC modders (gotten later even by Dice in their own team), today no BF2 would be present. And now EA has released such a MDK for BF2, which is even still more near to a genuine SDK, because you can program thereby also effects for the engine.

[Cdre Gibs]

I know the difference very well because I develop since 15 years business software with such real SDKs. ;)

But the community people wishes from Ubisoft exactly such a tool collection which enables unique and new content (e.g. new models, landscapes etc..) like they can do with such SDKs or better called MDKs (mod development kit) for other games.

Most here do not like Electronic Arts because of their firm politics, but those recognized together with Dice very fast the potential of their customers and have released a MDK for Battlefield 1942 still during the patch and AddOn phase. Only with that MDK it was possible to do a full conversion mod like Desert Combat and few people specially bought Battlefield only to play this mod. I think, without the DC modders (gotten later even by Dice in their own team), today no BF2 would be present. And now EA has released such a MDK for BF2, which is even still more near to a genuine SDK, because you can program thereby also effects for the engine.

As the past Head of Models and Skins for BF1942/DCX I am fully aware of what u speak. The MDT ( Mod Developers Toolkit ) from Dice is the very same deal we need here. We dont need the nitty gritty nuts and bolts, just the Tools to allow us to add the basic's. Models, Skins (which we can sorta do - but not properly), Animations and Sounds (for new content). These are just watered down versions of the developers tools that allow the use of ready made programs such as MAX, GMAX or Animation Shop to name a few.

We dont need to know how the game works down to the last dotted " i " , just some simple tools that allow the normal standed modding of any game that is released these days.

[kiwi_2005]

Only with that MDK it was possible to do a full conversion mod like Desert Combat and few people specially bought Battlefield only to play this mod

Yes i was one, i brought BF only cos of the Desert Combat mod. All my friends were playing it online so i had to try it out. I played it to death online, it would be one of the best war mods to ever come out! :rock:

[Seeadler]

OT: But today the Far Cry C++ MOD SDK was released by Ubisoft/Crytek

The Far Cry C++ MOD SDK is a source code release of the CryGame.DLL. It is the ultimate creation bundle for modders - everything you need to make a full FarCry Total Conversion and create a brand new game using CryEngine is now available. The game DLL sits on top of everything else, so you can access all other subsystems (physics, input, AI, sound etc.) from within the game source code through the supplied interfaces.

[Psycluded]

OT: But today the Far Cry C++ MOD SDK was released by Ubisoft/Crytek

The Far Cry C++ MOD SDK is a source code release of the CryGame.DLL. It is the ultimate creation bundle for modders - everything you need to make a full FarCry Total Conversion and create a brand new game using CryEngine is now available. The game DLL sits on top of everything else, so you can access all other subsystems (physics, input, AI, sound etc.) from within the game source code through the supplied interfaces.

Now THAT is interesting. I've played with writing a graphics/physics engine from scratch using DirectX and C++. It's tough. Tougher than I would have guessed. I eventually picked up the Torque engine from GarageGames.com and started building stuff on that platform. If Crytek has released an interface to their engine, I would -so- be interested in looking at that.

[Seeadler]

I've played with writing a graphics/physics engine from scratch using DirectX and C++.
You should take a look at OGRE http://www.ogre3d.org/ for a graphic engine, it can be combined over a plugin system with other engines for physics, sound,... I worked with a earlier version of OGRE in an industrial project, the license is free and can be used in freeware and commercial projects also.