Killing an avoiding target

[antidotos]

This question is for people using max realism, particularly RUB last mod (including improved convoys).
I m practically unable to score a hit on isolated merchants..... (Shame on me).
I need to close (don't want to sink a neutral) and assess their true heading and generally they spot me about 1500 metres away, so all my calculations to prepare a fast 90 comes to naught.....
So what should I do once I m detected ?
Generally I try to go away, hiding for a while but the merchant goes on changing headings. (I m currently after one, the chase is already 3 hours old, I was not able to get a single good firing solution).
A linked question to this : I find it very difficult to assess position to compute speed of targets at long range (the tools are inadequate to plot beyond 3000 metres) and impossible at close range (the target is too large....).
Either I m totally inadapted to this game (and should go back to chess) or I missed something in the Wazoo tutorials.
Thanks for any ideas and experiences.

[The Avon Lady]

If you're going to allow yourself to be detected, at least make sure you're surfaced with all power assigned to the diesels and none to battery recharging, to get to maximum speed.

Otherwise, it's your job to go undetected, submerged, and approach the ship from the correct angle, with enough time to get there before the ship is ahead of your position. Man the hydrophone station yourself for precise target bearings and track its movement with markers on the map. Of course, run at ahead flank if necessary and keep your scope low or down altogether until you really need it.

[antidotos]

Thanks for the tips Avon Lady,
However that s the usual tactics I would like to try.
Maybe I should change my question : what is the minimum safe distance to identify a flag without being detected ?

[Muntjak]

Thanks for the tips Avon Lady,
However that s the usual tactics I would like to try.
Maybe I should change my question : what is the minimum safe distance to identify a flag without being detected ?

It depends on weather, time of the day etc.

Do the solution. If you can't identify it from save distance, do one of 2 things:

- go to periscope depth, go close to target - from 700-1000m usualy you should be able to recognise flag. It's very easy at day time. My preffered way to intercept targets at good weather condition and during the day. I can calculate everything and recognise target just before shoot (I hate all this americans in 1939 and 1940 ;-) )

- Auss Kraft vor aus on the surface, take +/- perpendicular course. You also should be able to recognise the flag before shot from short distance. At 600-700m target has little chance to avoid being hit by T1 torpedo set to fast even if you set AOB +/- 10-15 degrees and speed +/- 2-3 knots. I usualy guess the speed (7 knots is almost always OK, 9 for large cargo) and set estimated AOB based on what i see in UZO.

At night you can try submerged attack and come very close to the target or use star shells. But usually after first shot you are spotted so go at flank speed and try to use the second variant.

Convoys are easier when weather is good - I'm usualy in the middle of convoy and can recognize the flag (and I do the recognition only because the game gives negative renown for neutrals sunk in allied convoys which is unfair and AFAIK historicaly inaccurate). At night or in bad weather conditions I don't care about nationality of target. I just shoot nearest tanker or some big merchants. AFAIK in real life neutral units in allied convoys were considered as targets. Fortunately, there are not many neutrals in allied convoys. During current career I sunk just one.

Also IRL ships which sailed with all lights off were considered as targets. In SH3 all ships sail without lights ;-) suicidal neutrals ;-) In real life they would not have a chance.

[hakkikt]

So what should I do once I m detected ?

This is not exactly realistic and maybe sort of a fighter pilot approach, but:
If you are in close pursuit, the merchant will weave left-right-left..., and after a few turns, you get the rhythm. Normally, he is not directly in front of you when running "straight" (i.e. directly away from you), but somewhere between 340 and 20 degrees bearing.

So if he is at, say, 350° when running straight, you prepare to fire when he turns to the right. Go in close (350m), set pistol to magnetic, torp running depth to his draft +1m, open tube, and watch him as he turns right. When he is something like 10s away from maximum angle, fire at a point about 1/3 ship's length in front of him (depends on ship size). No entering of firing solutions and all that, just open tube, point scope and fire.

The bigger the ship, the better this works (slower turn, larger target).

If the merchant is unarmed, you can do that surfaced and in broad daylight; otherwise, submerge when he starts to fire (he will be slower than you because he weaves, even if his indicated speed is higher), and watch your scope... maybe lower it and adjust course by hydrophone or by quick glances.

[btaft]

For merchant ships I have found that it is not a big deal if you are detected. They only weave back and forth about their original heading with about a 200m sinusoid wave about this heading. If you are able to continue to close to within 700m your initial solution for the most part should still be valid. You will have a more difficult time picking the place to hit on the target. Sometimes I will tweak the speed down a kt or two to account for the fact that the target is no longer traveling in a straight line. This has worked for me.

[antidotos]

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR VERY INTERESTING TIPS.
I had noticed the sinusoid pattern but was unsure of its regularity.
It seems you are all much more aggressive than I am....
Regarding penalty for sinking neutrals in convoys : I play by the rule but it is grossly inaccurate historically.... (Even in modern laws of war an unlighted ship in a convoy surrounded by ennemy escorts would be considered a valid target).

[andy_311]

Why not sink Neutrals if they are in an enemy convoy and heading towards a enemy port SINK them if you see a C3 with a deck load of planes heading for Liverpool I somehow don't think it's Neutral it's there to help the Uk's war effort.
If you still feel guilty about hitting a Neutral before 42 re edit you Basic.cfg file so you don't get penialised

[seafarer]

I'd also say, in passing, if closing submerged, be very conservative with your use of the 'scope. Don't raise it and leave it up for minutes at a time. Raise it, grab a sighting, plot it, then down 'scope. If you cruise around with the 'scope up for long periods, they will detect it (visually or, later in the war, by radar).

You need to learn good 'scope tactics/use to survive the war, even on very low realism, and especially on high.

[PatAWilson]

Several people have posted ideas on how to avoid getting into this situation in the first place, which is the obvious best solution. When I do find myself in this situation here's what I do ...

Select the rear torpedo tube.
Set the running speed to fast.
Preset the TDC for a 90 degree shot at close range. The most important thing is to get good speed data.
Full speed on a parallel course with the merchant. Get close, maybe as close as a couple hundred yards.
When you are next to him and just a bit beyond, chop the speed and bring the boat around hard to get the rear torpedo to bear.
Last second adjustments to AOB and range.
Fire at point blank.

At 400 yards a large merchant is going to have trouble evading.

If it's a more manueverable boat like a coastal merchant, kill it with the deck gun or just let it go.