Should we get points for damage?

[Col7777]

This has probably already been mentioned, I've read many posts where ships have been badly damaged but the player got nothing for the effort.
I was thinking more on Capital Ships, where if say a player holed a cruiser or battleship and possibly put it out of action for many months, this would help the war effort but the player gets nothing.
He may have run out of tops to finish the job or got hounded by DD's so had to call the chase off but he did play a vital part.

I thought of this more from playing the Scapa Flow mission, I badly damaged a battleship leaving it with a heavy list but had to get out of there, if this had been real that ship would be out of the war for many months.
Also on a side note, where is the channel we used to sneak in like we did in SH2 or did I miss it, it isn't there on the map?

[canimo]

I agree !!

How many C2s i have let just pass by cause didnt want to risk a whole patrol total wasting 3 torps to sink them :shifty: :shifty:

[CB..]

it's possible to make a little more of the damaged ships bonus points for the crew.i've been experimenting with the crew management and experience points etc...it takes far too long to build up an experienced crew for my liking (after 19 patrols they can be still barely above novice state unless your a real tonnage king which i am not lol) sooo..

on the points for individual torp hits there's a section for this in the basic cfg file

[CREW_0] ;SEAMAN
MoraleMin=0.30
MoraleMax=0.60
MoraleStep=0.05
FatigueMin=0
FatigueMax=0.5
FatigueStep=0.2
CoefMorale=0.4
CoefFatigue=0.2
QualEffect=1
Hp=10
Wounded=-0.02
Dead=-0.05
SunkShips=0.1
TorpedoHit=0.05
Experience=0


for every torp hit while the crew man is in the torpedo room he gets an increase in experience

TorpedoHit=0.05


if you crank it up to say

TorpedoHit=1.5

this should make a major difference to his resilience and experience meaning he will be liable for promotion etc much quicker than normal

i know we can get shot of the fatigue stuff with a mod (forget whoose sorry bowt that) but i'd rather mod the stats given for the results of a patrol so you get a tougher crew much quicker as it makes a HUGE difference to their abiity and staying power etc....

here's where i am at with it right now

[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=500
RenownPatrolGridObjCompleted=200
CompletedPatrol=1000
NEUTRAL=-1
ALLIED=1
AXIS=-10
WrongShipSunk=-5000
FirstRankRenown=1000
SecondRankRenown=3500
EndCampaign=-5000

[PLAYER_RENOWN]
AcademyBonus=1000
RankLevel0=0; SCORE
RankLevel1=5000; SCORE
RankLevel2=15000; SCORE
RankLevel3=25000; SCORE
MedalSettings0=0.25
MedalSettings1=0.5
MedalSettings2=1
MedalScore0=3000;2 class, SCORE
MedalScore1=6000;1 class, SCORE
MedalScore2=10000; knight, SCORE
MedalScore3=15000; oak leaves, SCORE
MedalScore4=20000;swords, SCORE
MedalScore5=25000;diamonds, SCORE
MedalScore6=30000;all, SCORE

[MEDALS_CREW]
DecreaseFatigueMax=0.5
IncreaseMoraleMin=0.5
RenownStep=500; RENOWN, u-boat badge
SunkInPatrol=600; TONNAGE, front clasp
RenownStep2ndClass=5000; TONNAGE, IC 2nd
SunkInPatrol1stClass=8000; TONNAGE, IC 1st
SunkInPatrolGerman=12000; TONNAGE, GC
SunkInPatrolKnights=15000; TONNAGE, KC
HpStep=5
HpStep1stClass=10
Experience=1.50
StepForMorale=0
StepForFatigue=0

[PROMOTIONS]
RenownStep0=500
RenownStep1=600
RenownStep2=700
RenownStep3=800

[TIME]
TransferFlotilla=1
NbDaysInBase=68
NbPatrolsInFlotilla=3
NbMonthsInFlotilla=6



this gives a major boost to the amount of medals recieved at the end of the patrol for the crew AND greatly increases the effect giving the medals to a crew member has...allso increases the amount of promotions available and allso cranks up the promotions benifit for the crew member and so on...

allso i increased the fugure for maximum days in port before the next patrol so i could have fewer patrols per campaign (i had 19 and was still in 1940 as stock when starting from the beginning)

NbDaysInBase=68


it randomises the days in port up to this maximum time....

there's a lot of room for playing about with this stuff...as it is after a couple of reasonably succesfull patrols i have a hardy crew who can get by withut being constantly swopped in and out of the quaters for a rest...tho here's a tip...lol NEVE use time excell when n the crew management screen argghh...you can go for days on the map screen with virtually no drain on the crews strength but half a minute at times 32 on the managment screen will have them all flashing red ...dunno what that's caused by..anyhuw theres a way to make individual torp hits meaningfull


nother thought was the aircraft ..they seemed to have vanished of the face of the earth so i increased the range and probabilitys via the airstrike cfg and this so far seems to have woken them back up without setting them all to elite (there ability level remains as per stock )

Maximum Aircraft Range=5500 ;[>0] in kilometers
Poor Airbase Modifier=0.6 ;[>0] Modifier for poor airbase (carrier) rating
Novice Airbase Modifier=0.75 ;[>0] Modifier for novice airbase (carrier) rating
Competent Airbase Modifier=0.8 ;[>0] Modifier for competent airbase (carrier) rating
Veteran Airbase Modifier=0.9 ;[>0] Modifier for veteran airbase (carrier) rating
Elite Airbase Modifier=1 ;[>0] Modifier for elite airbase (carrier) rating
Night Modifier=0.5 ;[>0] Modifier on strike probability at night
Default Air Strike Probability=40 ;[>0] Default probability to send an airstrike from a airbase (carrier)
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Radio Messages Sent=60 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on a radio message sent
Friendly Air Strike Probability Increase on Contact Report Sent=60 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on a contact message sent
Enemy Air Strike Probability Increase on Player Detection=70 ;[>0] Increase over the default probability on player detection
Atenuation Factor=10 ;[>0] decrease from an increased probability to default one on each air session
Logic Steps Between Air Sessions=10


the torp hit bonus does depend on you having the crew stats still enabled tho..but taking a look at the stats as listed in the basic cfg gives you complete freedom to customise their abilitys etc gained from medals promotions etc etc making them very very quickly become hard as nails..

just dont use time excell on the managment screen

[SmokinTep]

Damn, a lot of info there. I agree, we should get something for damaging a ship.

[Col7777]

Phew CB!!!

It doesn't take you long does it, I wondered what you were up to after starting this sim? :)

That is a great bit of modding there already, as usual a great job. A couple of questions please, I take it this effects the crew if you have the fatigue mod enabled, IE it doesn't work, correct me if I missed something there.
Also I noticed you added a value to the (night modifier) increasing it, how dramatic are the night attacks, don't get me wrong I think the odd aircraft perhaps returning to base and seeing you on the surface couldn't resists a low pass and fire off a few shots.

Great work matey. :up:

[KL Seestern]

I agree, we should get something for damaging a ship.

I don't know ... the 1943 edition of the U-Boat Commander's Handbook issues a pretty clear dictum at Section II.F.175: 'Better to destroy little than to damage much'. It's infuriating to leave a crippled ship, but the guys back at BdU were really only interested in confirmed sinkings. (Of merchants, at least ... warships might have been a different matter.)

[Gunfighter34]

I kind of agree that maybe there should be some points in the case of a severely crippled capital ship, but for merchants if you don't sink them most or all of their cargo probably still gets through. I was reading a story the other day called "The Ordeal of the Ohio" about a Texaco tanker that had been loaned to the British and assigned to carry aviation gasoline to Malta (which was about to run completely out) in 1941 as part of "Operation Pedestal".

The Germans slaughtered the convoy despite the fact that it was protected by two carriers (one of which was sunk by u-boats) and several cruisers, and they completely wiped out a convoy bound to Malta from Alexandria at the same time. The Ohio took numerous bomb and torpedo hits from German and Italian bombers and torpedo bombers but somehow remained afloat. She was in such danger of sinking near the ends that destroyers were passing lines underneath her to literally carry her in to port, but in the end she made it and offloaded nearly all her fuel, giving Malta's fighters three more months of full operational capability. She then sank in the harbor.

So, I'd say no points for damaged freighters and tankers.

[Shadow9216]

An excellent point. One thing though, it was common to list ships damaged in patrol reports, awards, and propaganda broadcasts- clearly, there was some credit given for damaged ships.

Also, many commanders listed damage to ships which were not hit, and sinking ships which were merely damaged (I'm sure the pilots reported the Ohio sunk!), and were so credited. The way the game awards medals actually EXCEEDS reality, since CO's overclaims were accepted- and often inflated- by BdU.

[Kafka]

...

Also, many commanders listed damage to ships which were not hit, and sinking ships which were merely damaged (I'm sure the pilots reported the Ohio sunk!), and were so credited. The way the game awards medals actually EXCEEDS reality, since CO's overclaims were accepted- and often inflated- by BdU.

Exactly, for pure propaganda purposes, if nothing else. Homefront morale was vitally important to keep high, especially in the later war years.

[Col7777]

I too saw a newsreel about that tanker in Malta, it did make it as you say, I was thinking more on the lines of heavy damage to capital ships that may be put out of action for awhile or even out of the war completely may be.
Obviously not as many points as for a sinking but a few may be.

[CB..]

Phew CB!!!

It doesn't take you long does it, I wondered what you were up to after starting this sim? :)

That is a great bit of modding there already, as usual a great job. A couple of questions please, I take it this effects the crew if you have the fatigue mod enabled, IE it doesn't work, correct me if I missed something there.
Also I noticed you added a value to the (night modifier) increasing it, how dramatic are the night attacks, don't get me wrong I think the odd aircraft perhaps returning to base and seeing you on the surface couldn't resists a low pass and fire off a few shots.

Great work matey. :up:

Hi Col yup beginning to mess about with things...didn't want to jump straight in before i'd gotten a little bit of handle on it..

i dunno exactly about the fatigue mod and the entrys i'm using i'm going to take a look at it and see how it goes... the thing they left out (unless i'm wrong) is the balancing effect that the medic qualification would have had if it decreased the revitalise time whilst in the quarters...but i haven't noticed any speeding up of recovery for non injured crew with a medic in the quarters...other wise this would have balanced it out nicely..an officer with a medic basge could haev halved the recovery time and thats really the bug bear with it..don't mind the crew getting tired but once theyre out they take too long to recover (especailly the officers)

nope didnt alter the night time air strike figure (tho i altered all the rest) im using version one of the sim and that's how that figure comes..thing was tho theyre were NO aircraft strikes at all short of sailing into plymouth and surface-ing for half an hour waving flags :ping:

lol

say do you get a pop up message when sighting an aircraft or ship?
giving options to attack ignore or dive? if so hwo do you stop it lol!!!

it doesn't pause the game and by the time i've clicked it off screen so i can hit crash dive the dang planes have allready dropped their bombs...dunno what thats about..

anyhuw the crew system im using does work well...lots of medals to award at the end of a patrol which boosts the crews performance considerably...but it still needs work on the fatigue side..i just dont want to get rid of fatigue alltogether as i think it adds to the game ..it just needs either quicker recovery times or a tweak or two to enable you to allways have a set of crew at maximum capability whilst the others rest..especailly the officers (not enough quarter space for them )

he he!! got a little bored doing the Med campaign lots of patrols but no convoys or even a sniff of a DD around (without looking for them anyway in ports etc) so i added a few covering the Tunis Straights via the editor..and wouldn't you know it ...just been killed by one of them lol....

i dont think im ready for elite DD's just yet ..more practice needed.. :arrgh!:

on other folks points yup but any crew memebr would get a moment of encouragement from a torpedo hit even if it didn't sink the ship..(especailly if it were a major vessel such as a carrier or BB) so it's no take off on realism for them to gain a little extra experience and or resilience moral etc from a succesfull torp launch.? :up:

[Col7777]

CB,

I got this link from another thread, some of it may come in useful for the crew stuff.

http://www.communitymanuals.com/shiii/index.php?title=Main_Page

I'm glad your rocking again mate, this is great.

[CB..]

:up: thanks Col!! now i know what too do ..reckon i'l set the command room up so it works as a rest room following the info from the WIKI and links and that should do the trick....the real thing they should have done here was to have two shifts of crew ala the real thing that would have been probably the nicest way to go...click a button to change shifts OR....have the shifts change automatically at set times...but having an extra Rest room avaialabel will do the same trick i think..gawd my typings gettng lousy lol!! :huh: :-j

really enjoying the game amazing stuff thanks Col! :up: