The deeper the safer ???

[canimo]

To what depth should i dive to avoid :

a. Detection ?

b. Damage from DC ?

The point is, If i am at 180m is it harder for DD´s to hear me than at 60m ??

And when it comes to DC damage ? Is it just like a guess lotery ? The DD guesses my depth and I guess their DC setting ??
Do they have a depth limit to go off ???

[KodiakPA]

The deeper you are the more time you have to evade depth charges.

[canimo]

:doh:

it never crossed my mind...

think i could never be a skipper :88)

[Carcassonne]

I agree, the deeper you are the more time you have to avoid DCs; however, it's a double edged sword, sure you have more time to evade but those DC that detonate near you cause more damage.

DD's use pings to determine your depth and upon locating your depth adjust their DC's to detonate in approximation of that figure. I will say that it's more difficult for them to ping you the deeper you go.

I've found from personal experience in game that you needn't go very deep in relation to crush depth to avoid DCs. I rarely go below 100m in the years '39 - '42. From '43 and on I tend to hit the 170 meters deep. There are a few reasons for that: earlier in the war it's seldom you're DC'd by more than 1 or 2 ships at a time and it's much easier to avoid detection, plus the DD's are really relying on sound. Later in the war you need the depth to change courses as I've found 5+ ships will hunt you at one given moment.

My advice, have a couple Petty officers who are repairmen in the later years, they'll save you bacon.

[TDK1044]

Also, the deeper you are, the more thermal layers there are between you and the destroyer. A thermal layer makes it harder for him to detect you. Dive deep, select silent running mode and move slowly away.

[Duli]

Thermal layers arent simulated into this game.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

with depth comes safety... and a lil coating of Albericht can't hurt either...

--Mike

[JohnnyPotPie]

it all depends, sometimes your sound sig. can be louder at a deeper depth... it all depends on the temp. of the water. I dont know if this game does it right... best way to not get killed is to not let them chase you in the first place! :up:

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

ok... you can stay up there and mess around with those dds if you want to... as for me, i'll be as deep as i can... at silent speed... enjoying the latest movies in the crews mess...

ooops, wrong war :-j

--Mike

[Dargo]

The change to hit a sub below 100 meter is or must be diffucult than above that depth ( how deeper you are how longer the charge is on his depth where he is set on to explode)

The sink rate of the Mark 7 was a fairly slow 6 feet per second, which meant there was a very long blind time during which a deep-diving enemy sub could attempt to evade before the pattern eached it. In late 1942, a modified Mark 7 charge was equipped with added lead weight, which increased the sink rate to 13 feet per second

The sink rate of the Mark 6 was 8 feet per second. When weight was added, the sink rate was increased to 12 feet per second

The Mark 9 (1943) has a sink rate of 14.5 feet per second.

A simple feet to meter conversion is,
1 feet = approximately .3080 meters

Example: 75 ft x .3080 = 23.1 meters deep

[Remix_]

I agree, the deeper you are the more time you have to avoid DCs; however, it's a double edged sword, sure you have more time to evade but those DC that detonate near you cause more damage.


I knew that deeper the better to avoid them (more time to run away, plus more drifting along the sea currents), but I had never thought that DC would also do more damage. I guess it's just because of the pressure.

[Fritz]

100 meters, 1 KTS, silent mode = safe for me :-) (running 1.4)

[canimo]

Ok thx for all the explanation. . .

But and when it comes to detection ?? Is it harder for them to hear you at 170m than 80m ??

Plus I read somewhere that even ALL STOP wont save you, cause their sonar isn´t based on how much noise we make :cry:

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

well if they're pinging you... you can be as quiet as a rock... and they'll still see you...

gotta find those thermals... what!!! they don't exist in SH3... no wayyyy :-j

--Mike

[btaft]

Carcassonne wrote:
I agree, the deeper you are the more time you have to avoid DCs; however, it's a double edged sword, sure you have more time to evade but those DC that detonate near you cause more damage.



I knew that deeper the better to avoid them (more time to run away, plus more drifting along the sea currents), but I had never thought that DC would also do more damage. I guess it's just because of the pressure.

Along these lines does anyone know if the effective radius of the depth charge is modeled as a function of depth. i.e. the deeper the depth charge goes before exploding the smaller the effective blast area (due to pressure) but the larger the effect is on your sub due to the strain that it is under if you are within that blast radius. Or is it a static value regardless of where it explodes

[gdogghenrikson]

Thermal layers arent simulated into this game.

no, but they should be, because they were in silent hunter 2

[Bort]

Thermal layers arent simulated into this game.
no, but they should be, because they were in silent hunter 2

They are simulated, I remember someone saying that one of the devs said they were modeled. :know:

[Ula Jolly]

Thermal layers are more and more rare the shallower the waters. 150 metres? Nnnnn...never saw one. They might exist, but never saw it.
200-250 and deeper is more like it.

[Nopileo]

It appears thermal layers are simulated in the game according to the devs, but we have no way of knowing when we are passing one, as there are no temp gauges simulated...

[Catfish]

Hello,
" ... thermal layers are simulated in the game according to the devs, but we have no way of knowing when we are passing one, as there are no temp gauges simulated ... "

... and that is how it should be, there was no possibility to measure surrounding water temperature or density. However it was common knowledge there were "hiding zones" in the shallow waters of the U.S. coast, but you would not know exactly where.

If you evade this time you may have to thank a layer, but you can't be sure, next time will probably be different ...

However it is interesting how a destroyer takes the sinking speed of depth charges into account - in the game the charges mostly explode at the same depth as my boat is, even in early years (yes, exterior cam on ... :oops: )

And if a depth charge explodes in deeper water, the resulting radius of the destructive zone or "blast" will be narrower than in shallow waters because of the surrounding higher water pressure - if it certainbly explodes a few centimetres to the hull ... :dead:
I read somewhere that mostly no direct explosions sank your boat, but the shockwave travelling through the water. It would travel right through the hull without damaging it, but it wreaks havoc to the stiffly mounted bolts and unelastic sealings and gaskets. Only the type XXI had some kind of "rafting", separating mechanical parts from the hull with rubbers.

You boat will not sink because of a crushed pressure hull, but because of leaks unable to fix because of the high pressure. Even the pressure hull or bulkheads will mostly not collapse, because the leaking boat will have accomplished even pressure in- and outside before reaching those depths. Modern submarines will develop collapsed bulkheads or hulls due to their stronger design.

Greetings,
Catfish

[TDK1044]

Catfish is exactly right, Duli. The thermal layey modeling is present, but there is no "passing through thermal layer, Sir" statement as there was in SH2.

[Akula_971]

One of the supposed advantages of a Uboat going deep, was the problem it caused to asdic operators. The asdic emits its sound in a cone shaped pattern ahead of the ship. If you are detected at depth, then as the ship proceeds to your location, he is then asdic blind as the cone has proceeded past you. This in reality gave the uboat skipper a chance to change course and depth. I have noticed that in this game this is not modelled correctly, the destroyers can maintain contact permanently, even when changing course, when they are accelerating towards you.

How many people here have ever seen rain in fog? I have not.

[SmokinTep]

I agree. It seems the DD's have a sonar keel that can see everything.

[Nopileo]

This 'cone effect' of DDs are corrected/improved in Jungman's SensorPak fix, if I have understood it correctly.

[Akula_971]

Where can I find this mod?

[SmokinTep]

Same here. So many mods............

[Catfish]

Here:
http://u-boot.realsimulation.com/
Look for "SonarDC_20.zip"
Greetings,
Catfish

[redstorm101]

Thermal layers arent simulated into this game.

I think they are..... :|\

[Nopileo]

Where can I find this mod?

I thought it would be easy to find, but I had to search a while. The file is called 'sensorpak.zip', and includes much more that just the sonar fix.

Here is one reference from a post by Jungman:

Looky here, and try this out---contains the new Snorkel fix. Read about its proper usage so you do get caught with your snorkel hanging out in the open!

I stuck all these mods into a pak. Many share the same file. Contains Active Sonar Super Lock-On fix, DC blast reduction to 20 meters, Improved Radar Warning Detectors fix, Carrots for Longer Visual Range for Watch Crew, und die Schnorkel fix.

SensorPak

http://rapidshare.de/files/3448595/SensorPak.zip.html

EDIT: Updated to include the original SonarDC values with snorkel fix. You can chose between them.

So this includes the Sonar_DC-fix as well as the other fixes mentioned by Jungman.

This mod should be made more easily available somewhere (or be included in Jungman's signature). Hint hint... A truly must-have mod/fix, and much appreciated!

[Catfish]

Hello Nopileo,
thanks for the heads up, must have missed this one !
Greetings,
Catfish

[Nopileo]

My pleasure. I think it's quite new (July 29th or something), and I also think he's still tweaking it. So hopefully it will turn up on some download sites after a while.

[v!por]

Gents:

Read online the following ,... and forgive but I will have to go be recollection:

Sonar: Early war were "searchlight " @ 2500 yards max range but only @ 6 1/2 degrees diameter.... not very good in rough sea states...
by early 43 ... I think it was called the "Q' sonar... out to max range of 1200 or was it 1000 yard... shaped like a slice of pie.... with the tip at he sonar... about 60 degrees wide by about 4 degree deep.... and after came the ... not recall the name... just take the horizontal slice of pie and put it on its edge ... this was much more effect against deep diving subs and max range was .. I think... 1000 yards...

DC.... I think early dc were mx depth down to 94 meters. later down to 194 meter s.... but that weighted one had max depth of 1000 feet or about 315 meters! at 14 feet per second ... down at about 70 seconds!.... The hedgohogs had no depth limit... just smaller and kept going until it hit or... kept going.... I read somewhere where they might have also been set to mag proximate fuse... ?????

Oh ya.. someone far more knowledgeable than me posted the thermals ..... historically the uboat crew knew when they were going down through one as the sub would slow in diving and suddenly break through .....

I moded... ok cheated my XXI down to 350 meters... no need to use... but just watch those dc dance around her when you are as deep as 225 to 250... man if they have u with vertical sonar .... and are dropping charges... hit the gas.... change depth... course.... prey .... and go silent unti the explode... go faster to make the search area larger.. go silient again...... this sim is getting better and better ... good luck.... i enjoy watching the dc attacks with cam:<) lucky to be alive now...and not then....

[Nopileo]

Thanks for the info! I agree SH3 is getting better, especially now that I've started a campaign in 1943 and have reached Sept. 1944 in a XXI. So much equipment, so many torpedoes, so many enemies! :o

lucky to be alive now...and not then....

This is a good line. My mother was born in 1942, but she says she can still hear the sound of marching German feet outside the house! And my father - who was born in 1923(!) and was a Norwegian merchant seaman during the war - got torpedoed by German subs twice, and my mother says that he woke up screaming almost every night while he was still alive, but still he refused to talk about the war.

We don't know how good we're off in these western countries nowadays. All we do is complain... :roll: (at least the younger generations do).

Regards,

Nopileo