Avoiding detection? - early 1943

[bsalyers]

Hi, all;
I tried to find a relevant topic to post this under; some were close, but if there's one that's perfect, I didn't see it.
I'm in a big ol' Type IX in early 1943, playing at 97% realism, unmodified, latest patch applied. On my way to patrol off South Africa, I interecepted a large, fast (13 knots) convoy at night. I've tried my approach twice and have been detected both times. Once, I waited at periscope depth just barely abeam of the lead DE approaching from 270 degrees. He was still several thousand meters away when the pinging started. He had no trouble detecting me. Second try, I went to 25 meters and ordered silent running. Same thing; they started pinging me like the sun was out and the water was transparent. Is there a good way to approach these guys? How are they detecting me? They can't be randomly pinging as they go; I'd hear it. I'd try a surface approach, but from my experience and everything I've read in these forums, they'd spot me even more readily. I don't mind difficulty, but impossibility is a bit of a drag :damn: . Any suggestions?
TIA.

[thecaptain]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the party is over. By 1943 destroyer crews had gotten much better trained and that especially applied to convoy escorts. You don't dare approach on the surface even at night because the lead escort is likely to have radar. The only thing you can do is try to exploit some weakness in the escort screen. But that too can be problematic because many convoys were sailing with four, six, even up to eight escorts in some cases. It can still be done, but it's not going to be easy in any case, especially if you're playing at 100 percent realism.

[ReM]

Maybe a lengthy prayer would help?

Anyway like thecaptain said:
the party is definately over (for you that is) for the dd's the party's just begun!

It can be done though....just make sure that you are not excatly in the path of any escort.......the asdic is like a beam in front of the boat...passing behind the first escort and a long way in front of the second might help you some times....
This does mean that you will be firing fromrather long ranges......but is is better to sink only a few ships and slipaway unscathed than to sink a few more and join them on the bottom of the sea :lol:

[Jungman]

The best active sonar in game is 2200m. Though in 1943, not that many escorts have it that good (1800m).

The active sonar model is wrong. I did change the detection angle form +-90 from bow to more narrow +-65 degrees. Plus changed minimum lock on distance form zero to 200m.

The model is like a torus (half donut). They can even see you deeper. I think some of the sonars still need a range or sensitivity tweak. I am just getting to 1943 and coming across these problems (how about when I got attacked by the whole Royal Airforce 16 airplanes! I think Airpower Mod solves that better).

Try out my fixed original mod called SonarDC_fix using the 20 meter blast version from the SonarDC_20; this all is archieved in the SensorPak for picking and chosing what works best. It will help you escape at least. Shoot from far off; or be bold and dash in, unload close inside the convoy, the DD have a hard time getting in there at you, then dissapear fast.

If I notice it being impossible for proven real war tatics for that time period, then I will nerf the active sonar a bit more in line with reallity. Remember some DD are Elite and have the best EQP installed anyway. Just your lucky day.

[bsalyers]

Thanks, guys. I thought I might get that unfortunate news. Oh, well - I'll try stopping further abeam. I was pretty much right in front of them.
Thing I still don't get is (and maybe this is just the game), when the DEs are steaming merrily along and I'm submerged with scope down and engines off, what are they reacting to when the pinging starts? How do they know I'm there in the first place? It doesn't seem realistic, unless those damned allies have some secret technology I've never heard of...
;)
Thanks for your replies.

[Jungman]

what are they reacting to when the pinging starts?

That is the super acitve default sonar in the game. The DD sends out a sonic wave pulse and listens for the return. it is active sonar, not to be confused with passive sonar (hydrophones).

That is what started the whole Sonar sensor fix mod to help with this problem. The DD have super active sonar by default. Which gets better as the war drags on.

[bsalyers]

That is the super acitve default sonar in the game.

Right. I assume that's the pinging I hear... but what starts that? In the world of the game, what makes the crew of the DE suspicious enough to use their active sonar? It sounds as if it starts at a certain range away, rather than slowly fading up as if they are using it the whole time they are underway...? Maybe the game is making the AI aware of my presence before it plays the "ping" sound file? Just curious. They seem to use ESP and ASDIC.
Thanks.

[jasonb885]

...
On my way to patrol off South Africa, I interecepted a large, fast (13 knots) convoy at night. ...
TIA.

Yes, hide.

You've encountered AS. I had no idea anyone had the patience to bother with AS. Getting that far south would take me an hour, real time. It runs from '42 to '43 and is considered an American invasion convoy. All the escorts in the stock game are elite.

Good luck!

:up:

[DreamWizard]

Also be aware of your conning towers depth when at periscope depth.

If the waves are high, ie: 15mps winds when you sit at 11meters usualy your conning tower breaks the surface as the waves swell and dip. Not a good thing when an escort is close and or has radar. I find 13meter depth set by hand is better under those circumstances. I constantly juggle the periscope depth manualy between 10-13meters for best fit to the situation instead of relying only on the generic 11meter periscope depth button. I rarely get caught that way.

[Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense]

you can survive... i did...

but, like the guys said, the party is definitely over :hulk:


de planes... de planes... and that darned asdic...

if you don't have Albericht (that anti sonar coating) you're a dead man...

run silent... run deep... seriously... silent running and depth when the dds are around...

stay off the surface, especially during the day... and do what i was told to do... and did...

get a snorkel as soon as they go on sale...

and that bit about praying... well, it couldn't hurt :hmm:


good luck...

--Mike