For those of you who think the XXI Sucks.....

[Silverfox18]

Well, for those of you who think the type XXI sucks...I have a little story to tell you.

I start the story and the partol in the South Atlantic...that's were the game puts me first off. On the Equator at FG. Thinking I might run into a stray merchant I string along the Equator and head a little north towards Freetown but decide to go to periscope depth and use my Snorkel.

No problem, I head west and then north above ES & ET...but NO contacts. Nothing, I'm getting nothing...oh wait something far behind me and moving Fast...too late to catch that one though. So I head north north west in the "Convoy lanes" off West Africa. Still nothing. I'm now staying out of the Super Advanced 1944 air coverage of the allies around the canary islands. Well, I think I'll head west toward the Casablanca-New York lanes.

All of a sudden I'm getting Hydrophone contact sounds of a warship and several merchants in Grid DH 78 and it's September 17th 1944.
It just so happens that I'm stumbling into a rather large convoy. I'm coasting, with snorkel, at one third which is generating about 10 knots. I spot a Destroyer in front of the convoy, he's turning and weaving, so I cut down to silent running which still gives me 6 knots with the XXI. I notice 5 lanes of ships and in the middle are the "sweet ones". I can't believe I got past the first destroyer and now I'm pretty much in the middle of the convoy. I fire my first two eels at a big T-3 tanker that looks as big as the Exxon Valdez. Then I turn a bit and fire one shot at the next T-3 which is just in front of it...and it's just as big as the other. There is a Tooop ship in front of both of the tankers and I fire two at it while turning hard a starboard. Wammo...the first two HIT...the T-3 goes up in fire and smoke and down. Then the second T-3 gets hit by the lone torp I fired at it and it to goes up in fire (one torpedo took her down).
The Troop ship gets hit by my 4 & 5 eels on it's starboard stern. It slows and burns but does not go down...that is untill I fire #6 and when that hits....the Trooper is History! A full salvo of 6 torps and bingo 3 of the biggest ships in the convoy are DOWN! My crew in the bow torpedo room is loading torps real fast (cause I'm not in silent running anymore)....and to make this long story a bit shorter.....I take out another 3 C-2 Cargo merchants and a Victory Cargo. All 4 of these are carrying tanks, planes trucks and what must have been tons of ammunition because they really BLEW!

This convoy was not easy pickings as it was guarded by a combination of 7 allied ships....Destroyers and corvettes! While I was going nuts in the middle of the convoy the ASW people were trying to find me and thought they had me caught in the middle. But the combination of one Bold 4 decoy and the rest of the convoy ships screws...explosions and general noise let me slip out with ease!

Seven of the biggest ships in the convoy....T-3's 11,654, 11,653 tons. Troop ship 8,009. 3 C-2's 6,448, 6,452, 6,445. and a Victory Cargo at 7,767. TOTAL-58,428 tons. All within 15 minutes of work. Not bad for a lousy XXI! I then spent the rest of the patrol getting around the Allied aircover as my French U-Boat bases went occupied by the Allies, considering, it was early October '44. So I snorkel'd my way west and north, through the Denmark straits and around into the Bergen Base.

All I can say is "WOW", what a patrol...especially considering the time period, Middle late '44. And it was all done in that EGG SUCKING XXI!!!! :rotfl:

Mahalo, to all and to all a good night.
:sunny:

[sdcruz]

awesome narrative - im here in 1941 trying to get a way from this incessent charges and tenacious destroyers!

Cant wait for the bigger subs!

Regards
Shelton.

[Damo1977]

HEY HEY.............. Me don't reckon XXI sux...........me wish I get there!! Than give it a test run

[ENtek-IO]

Well, for those of you who think the type XXI sucks...I have a little story to tell you.

I start the story and the partol in the South Atlantic...that's were the game puts me first off. On the Equator at FG. Thinking I might run into a stray merchant I string along the Equator and head a little north towards Freetown but decide to go to periscope depth and use my Snorkel.

No problem, I head west and then north above ES & ET...but NO contacts. Nothing, I'm getting nothing...oh wait something far behind me and moving Fast...too late to catch that one though. So I head north north west in the "Convoy lanes" off West Africa. Still nothing. I'm now staying out of the Super Advanced 1944 air coverage of the allies around the canary islands. Well, I think I'll head west toward the Casablanca-New York lanes.

All of a sudden I'm getting Hydrophone contact sounds of a warship and several merchants in Grid DH 78 and it's September 17th 1944.
It just so happens that I'm stumbling into a rather large convoy. I'm coasting, with snorkel, at one third which is generating about 10 knots. I spot a Destroyer in front of the convoy, he's turning and weaving, so I cut down to silent running which still gives me 6 knots with the XXI. I notice 5 lanes of ships and in the middle are the "sweet ones". I can't believe I got past the first destroyer and now I'm pretty much in the middle of the convoy. I fire my first two eels at a big T-3 tanker that looks as big as the Exxon Valdez. Then I turn a bit and fire one shot at the next T-3 which is just in front of it...and it's just as big as the other. There is a Tooop ship in front of both of the tankers and I fire two at it while turning hard a starboard. Wammo...the first two HIT...the T-3 goes up in fire and smoke and down. Then the second T-3 gets hit by the lone torp I fired at it and it to goes up in fire (one torpedo took her down).
The Troop ship gets hit by my 4 & 5 eels on it's starboard stern. It slows and burns but does not go down...that is untill I fire #6 and when that hits....the Trooper is History! A full salvo of 6 torps and bingo 3 of the biggest ships in the convoy are DOWN! My crew in the bow torpedo room is loading torps real fast (cause I'm not in silent running anymore)....and to make this long story a bit shorter.....I take out another 3 C-2 Cargo merchants and a Victory Cargo. All 4 of these are carrying tanks, planes trucks and what must have been tons of ammunition because they really BLEW!

This convoy was not easy pickings as it was guarded by a combination of 7 allied ships....Destroyers and corvettes! While I was going nuts in the middle of the convoy the ASW people were trying to find me and thought they had me caught in the middle. But the combination of one Bold 4 decoy and the rest of the convoy ships screws...explosions and general noise let me slip out with ease!

Seven of the biggest ships in the convoy....T-3's 11,654, 11,653 tons. Troop ship 8,009. 3 C-2's 6,448, 6,452, 6,445. and a Victory Cargo at 7,767. TOTAL-58,428 tons. All within 15 minutes of work. Not bad for a lousy XXI! I then spent the rest of the patrol getting around the Allied aircover as my French U-Boat bases went occupied by the Allies, considering, it was early October '44. So I snorkel'd my way west and north, through the Denmark straits and around into the Bergen Base.

All I can say is "WOW", what a patrol...especially considering the time period, Middle late '44. And it was all done in that EGG SUCKING XXI!!!! :rotfl:

Mahalo, to all and to all a good night.
:sunny:

:)

[XXi]

Hopefully I`ll manage to survive untl I`m given an occasion to use the XXI.
So long, I`m sparing the renown for IX D 2.

[Syxx_Killer]

I just acquired the XXI, too. At the moment I am trying to get away from the same dumb Sunderland that keeps killing me. I run submerged @ 5 knots. I always have to snorkel to replace oxygen, before the batteries. While snorkeling, the same stupid Sunderland keeps killing me. Even if it isn't to be seen anywhere. The snorkel is like a bone or something. "Go fetch!" :damn: :damn:

In the mean time I started a different campaign to used the IXD2. At the moment I'm down near Capetown.

[Konovalov]

Nice story. Something to keep me going since I don't have my PC to play SHIII. :cry:

[Sulikate]

I also bought the XXI, yesterday, and I made one patrol with it... result: 28000K of tonnage!!! hahaha. XXI rules :rock:

[Duli]

No it doesnt. When you play with high realism, that stupidly long recharging time will kill you because you wont even now, when the aircrafts starts attacking you. You will only hear explosions and KIA screen.

[Silverfox18]

Glad most of you liked my patrol story. I'm still a bit giddy over what happened.

The reason I posted the title the way I did is because I was tired of seeing people knock the XXI. Syxx_Killer & Duli I too had major allied aircraft on my butt most of the time. I was sooooo pissed at the stupid "Air coverage" ( most of the air attacks I got were really not Historically correct, sorry to use that term) that sent 10 0r 11 Sunderlands to attack me all at once I finally got a small mod that made things right. The Air coverage mod (I think by Gizzmo) put things in perspective...usually two (really tough) planes attacking after they did spot you. You also had to stay down at slow speed and change course drastically.

For this particular patrol...for some strange reason, it started me way down off of Africa on the Equator. For those of you who think I started this campaign in '39...think again. In this game you can start careers in '39, '40, '41, '42 or '43. I started this one in '43 as I have a career for each year going!

Thanx all for reading about an astounding patrol.....
Mahalo: :sunny:

[VilniusNastaviick]

t's September 17th 1944.

Hmm, the day Operation Market Garden began.


Awesome fish story man :up:

[Caleb]

No it doesnt. When you play with high realism, that stupidly long recharging time will kill you because you wont even now, when the aircrafts starts attacking you. You will only hear explosions and KIA screen.

How long in game at 100% does it take to recharge the batteries, in real live i believe it was around 3 or 4 hours.

[Duli]

In game, its about 12h from 50% to 99.999999999999%. There is a bug, and the batteries wont recharge fully, so you have to manualy click onto the "normal propulsion" button, so that you can get full power from the engines. Also the snorchel radar doesnt work, you keep getting "Radar destroyed" message, when you start a patrol. The boat would be really good without those bugs, but now it just isnt. Also, I play at 94% difficulty, and I was really looking forward to this boat, when I started my second career in 39 (Ive succesfully finished my first one, which I started in 1940), but then I was dissapointed with this small, but at the same time, if you play without the external camera, very big bugs.

[Silverfox18]

Duli, you are right about the bugs and they need to be fixed. The one with the Radar Destroyed.....is a real bad one (I get it too) and one that needs to be taken care of. BUT IT'S STILL AN AWSOME BOAT compared to all others!

:sunny:

[Silverfox18]

Whenever I see things like the XXI is handicaped...I shake my head and ask the question...deal with the game bugs, move on and work the boat like the masterpiece it is. Read my patrol report. Gee, I hope Caleb gets his report sightings site going soon!

:sunny:

[Damo1977]

ANYHOW!!! whats the problems with the XXI in the game? Just like to know

[Silverfox18]

Damo, just read the Topic post just below this one.
XXI handicaped: All the whinner's are in there. LOL!

:sunny:

[Duncan Idaho]

Careful, there's a big difference between 'whiners' and those who are trying to find a fix for that issue. I'm kinda tired of hearing anyone who doesn't like a particular bug, (and they are bugs), called a 'whiner' anyway, it's uncalled for.

Civility: It's just plain nice. ;)

[Duli]

Duli, you are right about the bugs and they need to be fixed. The one with the Radar Destroyed.....is a real bad one (I get it too) and one that needs to be taken care of. BUT IT'S STILL AN AWSOME BOAT compared to all others!

:sunny:

I know, that its a great boat, but somehow it just doesnt fit into the game, with all the modernization compared to the VIIs or IXs. Without thoose two bugs, she would be great.

[Silverfox18]

Hey Idaho militia man...I'm getting tired of people taking this forum too seriously. So take your duncan dohnut P.C. out for a rest and relax man!

Duli, if I remember correctly, everybody in the SH-2 forums always complained that they wanted the boat. So which is it? The dam bugs need to be changed...that's all!

AMEN to this topic.....otherwise it will go on endlessly...actually I'm sorry I even brought it up.
:down:

[Cdre Gibs]

I have been using the Type XXI since the day I bought SHIII, yes it HAD problems but now NO problems at all. How u ask, easy just FIX these lines in ur Basic.cfg file to whats below and ur gtg.

Year 1943
SuperCharger_00=1260
Snorkel_00=1262
Batteries_00=1269
AftBatteries_00=1269
Hydrophone_00=1272
Sonar_00=1274
Radar_00=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_00=1283
Decoy_Launcher_00=1288
SonarCoatings_00=1304
RadarCoatings_00=1305

Year 1944
SuperCharger_10=1260
Snorkel_10=1262
Batteries_10=1269
AftBatteries_10=1269
Hydrophone_10=1272
Sonar_10=1274
Radar_10=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_10=1283
Decoy_Launcher_10=1288
SonarCoatings_10=1304
RadarCoatings_10=1305

Year 1945
SuperCharger_20=1260
Snorkel_20=1262
Batteries_20=1269
AftBatteries_20=1269
Hydrophone_20=1272
Sonar_20=1274
Radar_20=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_20=1283
Decoy_Launcher_20=1288
SonarCoatings_20=1304
RadarCoatings_20=1305

These "bugs" on the type XXI are so simply fixed and I had done so, so long ago, that I'm some what surprised that ppl are still unable to figure it out.

[tycho102]

Quite some time back, I messed around with the default stuff in the basic.cfg, and I had the snorkel radar working. That was with patch 1.2, I believe, when I first got the game. I figured it was a problem with the patch, but the problem was actually that I *wasn't* cheating as much as I had been.

Good call on the basic.cfg settings. I'm going to go try them out with a new career. Give myself a XXI in 1939, and see what havoc I can wreck...

[Fritz]

I just acquired the XXI, too. At the moment I am trying to get away from the same dumb Sunderland that keeps killing me. I run submerged @ 5 knots. I always have to snorkel to replace oxygen, before the batteries. While snorkeling, the same stupid Sunderland keeps killing me. Even if it isn't to be seen anywhere. The snorkel is like a bone or something. "Go fetch!" :damn: :damn:

In the mean time I started a different campaign to used the IXD2. At the moment I'm down near Capetown.




u do know that airplane radars can "spot" ur snorkel device ???


**nice sortie BTW

[Duncan Idaho]

I have been using the Type XXI since the day I bought SHIII, yes it HAD problems but now NO problems at all. How u ask, easy just FIX these lines in ur Basic.cfg file to whats below and ur gtg.

Year 1943
SuperCharger_00=1260
Snorkel_00=1262
Batteries_00=1269
AftBatteries_00=1269
Hydrophone_00=1272
Sonar_00=1274
Radar_00=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_00=1283
Decoy_Launcher_00=1288
SonarCoatings_00=1304
RadarCoatings_00=1305

Year 1944
SuperCharger_10=1260
Snorkel_10=1262
Batteries_10=1269
AftBatteries_10=1269
Hydrophone_10=1272
Sonar_10=1274
Radar_10=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_10=1283
Decoy_Launcher_10=1288
SonarCoatings_10=1304
RadarCoatings_10=1305

Year 1945
SuperCharger_20=1260
Snorkel_20=1262
Batteries_20=1269
AftBatteries_20=1269
Hydrophone_20=1272
Sonar_20=1274
Radar_20=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_20=1283
Decoy_Launcher_20=1288
SonarCoatings_20=1304
RadarCoatings_20=1305

These "bugs" on the type XXI are so simply fixed and I had done so, so long ago, that I'm some what surprised that ppl are still unable to figure it out.

What exact problem does this fix? It doesn't change the radar/sonar unit from the default. As far as I can see it just selects more modern radar warning reciever and sonar/radar coatings, and supercharger settings. Else, it's identical to the default settings. Is this a fix for the slow recharge?

Or is the radar/sonar destroyed message not a problem with the XXI at all? I looked into this for someone else, not myself, as I haven't had the luxury of being offered the XXI yet.

[Capn Tucker]

For Cdr Gibs:

Do you already have to have started a career with the XXI before modifying these settings? Also, I noticed that most of the stock 1.4b settings (like radar and sonar) are already the same. Main difference I can see is the stock supercharger values are "-1", vice your "1260"..

[tycho102]

You cannot select the snorkel-radar, as it kills itself. Surface radar only, but everything else with the boat works. I dunno if it fixes the battery charge issue, since I use unlimited battery life. If you want to keep things "realistic", select unlimited battery and then just keep track of how many minutes you travel with different speeds, and kind of round things out to what it should be.

The IXd2 might be fixed by playing around with defaults, too.

[Cdre Gibs]

Those Items I posted are those that will work with NO issues. Any higher upgrades will cause "XXXX Destroyed " at the begining of a patrol. (except the engine upgrade, both r fine)

Capt Tucker

No u dont need to have a Type XXI to use the above fix, it will just mean that when ever u get/use a TypeXXI form then on it will already be Upgraded with NO issues.

As to the Battery issue If u look at the corrosponding Battery upgrade 1269 in ur basic.cfg u will see that same Num#1269 lower down that refers to the Battery upgrade. At the end of the upgrade group is a multiplyer. This determins the Duration that a Battery will LAST from a charged state and how long to RECHARGE. Basicaly fiddle with it till happy. HOWEVER this value is directly proportional ratio ie: IF ur battery takes a long time to DRAIN, it will therefore take a long time to Recharge.

Since I dont believe in "Realistic" but instead "FUN" my value will do u no good, but for the record its set to 1000. At this value it as yet, has never been drained. I am under the impression from my experiments that this varible that u all seek in the battery cycle life is NOT coded into the game for ANY battery. It would require it to be an INVERSE proportional ratio and sadly this is not the case.

[Capn Tucker]

Well, I do like realism, but I also play this game to have fun. When the realism becomes anal retentive, then the game is no longer fun. Your battery values will suit me just fine. BTW, is that the entry called "Energy"? Do you change that from 1.25 to 1000?

[Syxx_Killer]

u do know that airplane radars can "spot" ur snorkel device ???


I know it can be detected. The problem is, I think it is detected a bit too easily in the game. It seems to be like a magenet. I won't see an aircraft on the surface, but if I submerge and start snorkeling, there they are. :damn: :hulk:

[Duncan Idaho]

You cannot select the snorkel-radar, as it kills itself. Surface radar only, but everything else with the boat works. I dunno if it fixes the battery charge issue, since I use unlimited battery life. If you want to keep things "realistic", select unlimited battery and then just keep track of how many minutes you travel with different speeds, and kind of round things out to what it should be.

The IXd2 might be fixed by playing around with defaults, too.

I believe we've fixed the IX-D2's major problems with both it's range, (needed to be doubled, just use SH3 Crush Depth changing tool to change range to whatever it should be, 23,700 or somesuch), and destroyed sonar/radar for those having those problems, (replace sonar/radar in sub with a different model). Someone should put this info in the faqs or something, so people can just fix it. :)

Also, I really like your idea with just using unlimited batteries in the XXI to get around the recharge issue. That's pretty clever, and, though a fix would rule, your way would actually solve what many have said is the real problem with that boat. As soon as I get the chance to get the boat, I'll be trying it. Thanks for that idea.

[Syxx_Killer]

Also, I really like your idea with just using unlimited batteries in the XXI to get around the recharge issue. That's pretty clever, and, though a fix would rule, your way would actually solve what many have said is the real problem with that boat. As soon as I get the chance to get the boat, I'll be trying it. Thanks for that idea.

That sounds like an ok workaround, but if you use it then you don't ever have to surface and can putt around flank speed the whole time. I would rather let the batteries charge up most of the way, then when it gets to the point where it slows down so much, then switch to normal propulsion.

[Duncan Idaho]

u do know that airplane radars can "spot" ur snorkel device ???


I know it can be detected. The problem is, I think it is detected a bit too easily in the game. It seems to be like a magenet. I won't see an aircraft on the surface, but if I submerge and start snorkeling, there they are. :damn: :hulk:

Maybe that could be changed. I just scanned through the AI_SENSORS.DAT file, but am not familiar enough with it's structure to know what I'm seeing. Seems to me, though, there's probably somewhere that the sensitivity of the radar vs snorkel could be adjusted...or the visibility of the snorkel itself be adjusted.

[Syxx_Killer]

I just scanned through the AI_SENSORS.DAT file,

How do you scan through DAT files?

Also, what would be a good hex editing program to edit some files? I probably wouldn't know what I was doing, but would be good to check those files out.

[Duncan Idaho]

How do you scan through DAT files?

Also, what would be a good hex editing program to edit some files? I probably wouldn't know what I was doing, but would be good to check those files out.

I have several hex editors, but I usually end up using the simplest one I have, it's HHD Hex Editor, and you can get it here:
http://www.hhdsoftware.com/

Just remember to back up any file before you try to hexxor...heheh...in case something goes awry. :)

[Cdre Gibs]

Well, I do like realism, but I also play this game to have fun. When the realism becomes anal retentive, then the game is no longer fun. Your battery values will suit me just fine. BTW, is that the entry called "Energy"? Do you change that from 1.25 to 1000?


Correct

[Duncan Idaho]

Well, I do like realism, but I also play this game to have fun. When the realism becomes anal retentive, then the game is no longer fun. Your battery values will suit me just fine. BTW, is that the entry called "Energy"? Do you change that from 1.25 to 1000?


Correct

Okay, with the change to the battery entry, I now understand what your fix does, great work!

I'm changing mine now, and getting ready to try this sub out for myself. Thanks for your tips!

[Syxx_Killer]

I have several hex editors, but I usually end up using the simplest one I have, it's HHD Hex Editor, and you can get it here:
http://www.hhdsoftware.com/

Thanks for the link. I got it installed and decided to take a look at the AI_Sensors file. Where do I even begin? How does one make any sense of all those letters and numbers? :doh: :huh: :88)

[Faamecanic]

No it doesnt. When you play with high realism, that stupidly long recharging time will kill you because you wont even now, when the aircrafts starts attacking you. You will only hear explosions and KIA screen.

How long in game at 100% does it take to recharge the batteries, in real live i believe it was around 3 or 4 hours.

I take it you had the XXI in a Single mission and not dynamic campaign. Until you have played the sub in a few dynamic campaign patrols..I suggest you stow the "whiner" comments. Try walking a mile in our shoes before you go throwing FLAMES around (funny how I get busted for flaming...but the people throwing the whiner comments around...well thats ok).

For single missions you can see how the XXI would have been. And as far as engagement and evasion ...there is none better!

But in the dynamic campaign... your batts get drained by the constant air coverage, you cant use snorkel because the airplanes either have uber eyesight and see your schnorkel, or the lack of radar warning on the schnorkel.

THe XXI is useless as a patrol boat in the late war due to the fact that the very thing it was built for , ablility to stay submerged at high speed and recharge batts in 3-4 hours, is bugged and broke.

[Faamecanic]

I have been using the Type XXI since the day I bought SHIII, yes it HAD problems but now NO problems at all. How u ask, easy just FIX these lines in ur Basic.cfg file to whats below and ur gtg.

Year 1943
SuperCharger_00=1260
Snorkel_00=1262
Batteries_00=1269
AftBatteries_00=1269
Hydrophone_00=1272
Sonar_00=1274
Radar_00=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_00=1283
Decoy_Launcher_00=1288
SonarCoatings_00=1304
RadarCoatings_00=1305

Year 1944
SuperCharger_10=1260
Snorkel_10=1262
Batteries_10=1269
AftBatteries_10=1269
Hydrophone_10=1272
Sonar_10=1274
Radar_10=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_10=1283
Decoy_Launcher_10=1288
SonarCoatings_10=1304
RadarCoatings_10=1305

Year 1945
SuperCharger_20=1260
Snorkel_20=1262
Batteries_20=1269
AftBatteries_20=1269
Hydrophone_20=1272
Sonar_20=1274
Radar_20=1278
RadarWarningReceiver_20=1283
Decoy_Launcher_20=1288
SonarCoatings_20=1304
RadarCoatings_20=1305

These "bugs" on the type XXI are so simply fixed and I had done so, so long ago, that I'm some what surprised that ppl are still unable to figure it out.

<insert sarcasam> Ohhh this cant be the fix. Its too simple. To fix the XXI would have required MASSIVE game engine recoding. THats why it was never fixed from patch 1.1 on... <end sarcasm>

Does this also fix the batt recharge/discahrge rates?? Heck even if this just fixes the Schnorkel Radar...Im a happy man :D :up:

good job mate!

[Duli]

No it doesnt. When you play with high realism, that stupidly long recharging time will kill you because you wont even now, when the aircrafts starts attacking you. You will only hear explosions and KIA screen.

How long in game at 100% does it take to recharge the batteries, in real live i believe it was around 3 or 4 hours.

I take it you had the XXI in a Single mission and not dynamic campaign. Until you have played the sub in a few dynamic campaign patrols..I suggest you stow the "whiner" comments. Try walking a mile in our shoes before you go throwing FLAMES around (funny how I get busted for flaming...but the people throwing the whiner comments around...well thats ok).

For single missions you can see how the XXI would have been. And as far as engagement and evasion ...there is none better!

But in the dynamic campaign... your batts get drained by the constant air coverage, you cant use snorkel because the airplanes either have uber eyesight and see your schnorkel, or the lack of radar warning on the schnorkel.

THe XXI is useless as a patrol boat in the late war due to the fact that the very thing it was built for , ablility to stay submerged at high speed and recharge batts in 3-4 hours, is bugged and broke.

Ive made 6 patrols in a dynamic campaign, not in Single Mission, so I did played with it in the campaign.

[tycho102]

That sounds like an ok workaround, but if you use it then you don't ever have to surface and can putt around flank speed the whole time. I would rather let the batteries charge up most of the way, then when it gets to the point where it slows down so much, then switch to normal propulsion.

There's several ways to look at it. One is that way.

Another is with a calculator and amp-hours. I'm guessing ~12v per cell, and the shaft needs at least 200,000watts to crank a VIIb at 5 knots. Whoooooooo that's a lot of amps. So, you just change that into amp-minutes, and keep track of how many amp-minutes you expend. If you're traveling at 7 knots, you might be using up 20k amps. At 5 knots, it might be 15k amps. Then you'd need to decide how fast the batteries recharge, in terms of amperes, and keep track of how many minutes you need to recharge. This doesn't take into account the reduction in speed that comes with those batteries, as they drop their voltage, but such is life. I think the increased precision using amp-seconds is unwarranted, and amp-hours is too lax.

The other way is to just kind of guess. If you know in real life the batteries could fully recharge in 5 hours, then all you have to do is keep track of where your battery level "should" be, and travel at a higher speed (reducing your range) while you're recharging. Or do some circles in your boat. If know your boat has a 80km range at 5 knots, and you've gone about 10km at 3 knots, then you're probably at 90% battery level. Recharge for 20 minutes and party on, dude!

[Duncan Idaho]

Well, my results with the fix Cdr Gibs posted are excellent. Note: I also did something he suggested that wasn't in the original 'list' of what to change that he posted. That is going down near the end of the basic.cfg file to find the Battery upgrades, and set the energy on the battery to 1000. While it doesn't truly 'fix' the long recharge problem, it does work. You will probably be unable to drain your batteries after setting that, and since I already hunt in a pattern of 12hrs hunt, surface to recharge a bit...(or snorkel), then back to the depths to hunt more, it doesn't bother me to essentially have limitless batteries. And I still have to deal with oxygen forcing me to surface as well, so it's not a big realism hit, to me.

Thanks again, Cdr Gibs, that fixes the XXI enough that it's become my favorite boat. I switched last night, and had one of the best patrols of my career! :D

[Cdre Gibs]

Ur most welcome. All of my tweeking is mainly driven by ONLINE play between my self (Australia) and a mate of mine (UK). Since we dont have the same time zone the few hours a day we can get to play SHIII online are precious, so with that in mind I started to tweek SHIII to enable us to get more out of SHIII in any given time frame.

See we like to Explore the map after the intial Mission is over to see if we can rumble a few more convoys or raid a Port or if we are real lucky stumble onto a TF.

To do this in any reasonable time frame I had to "improve" the way the subs performed. The Short end to all this is I have found out many things about SHIII that whilst normally would be considered a cheat, do have a secondary benifet at times to ppls problems related to being realistic. Although that may seem like an impossible propostion, the fact remains that some of the bits I tweek could infact be backwards engineered to get a resault thats more on the realistic side. (God - How I hate that term). So in the long run, even us super freaks can be helpfull ! :D

So to that End I created the SS Mod for SHIII. The Mod is 276Mb in size, consisting of 178 Folders and 677 Files. U might say I've been a tad busy ! ;)

[Jungman]

I just acquired the XXI, too. At the moment I am trying to get away from the same dumb Sunderland that keeps killing me. I run submerged @ 5 knots. I always have to snorkel to replace oxygen, before the batteries. While snorkeling, the same stupid Sunderland keeps killing me. Even if it isn't to be seen anywhere. The snorkel is like a bone or something. "Go fetch!" :damn: :damn:

There is a work around for this bug. It works with the other boats. Do not use it at snorkel depth. The game engine thinks you are on the surface of the ocean and thier radar picks you up.

Go to periscope depth. It is a a good thing the Snorkel is long enough to reach :P . In heavy water, it may shut off sometimes, but that was a problem in real life.

I have a Snorkel Fix Mod I think that will fix this problem. The Radar in AI_Sensors is set for a minimum height to detect. It needs to be adjust about 2 meter higher. Then nothing below 2 meters (like a snorkel or periscope, is visible to the radar -but still could be spotted visually).

Want to test it? I never got around to it...still in 1940...

[CCIP]

I think setting the snorkel depth to 12m in the sub's respective .cfg file might do the trick, too :hmm:

[Jungman]

Setting it to 12m just makes the sub go to 12m deep instead of say 10 meters deep. The Radar needs to be set to detect minimum height from 0 to say 2 meters....I think...

[CCIP]

That can be done pretty easily too you know, although it might spoof the radar's detection ability a bit.
But probably workable, if you can experiment with it :hmm:

That said, real centimetric radar COULD detect a snorkel head in late war....

[Jungman]

Yes, late war, here is data from the Sunderland SNS

[Sensor 5]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkI
StartDate=19410101
EndDate=19430601

[Sensor 6]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkIII
StartDate=19430601
EndDate=19440601

[Sensor 7]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkVII
StartDate=19440601
EndDate=19451231

ASVMarkI Range 8 km MinSurface 1.5m
ASVMarkII Range 10 km MinSurface 1.5m
ASVMarkIII Range 12 km MinSurface 1.5m
ASVMarkVI Range 14 km MinSurface 0.3m
ASVMarkVII Range 16 km MinSurface 0.03m

As you can see, the last years war radar is 0.3m and .03m. That last year war radar would be impossible to hide a snorkel from, and the radar in the Sim.cfg does not have a range penalilty applied to it. Even 0.3 m is pretty darn good to detect you. And that is in June 1943.

Many people have lamented about the snorkel being detected by radar so easy.

All radar is at leat 1.5 meters, then goes to 0.3 meters, then the impossible 0.03m (3 cm radar).

That is why snorkel above less than 1.5 barely about waves will work and not get detected.

I believe this should be modded up to higher values.

First guess is from 1.5m, 0.3m , 0.03m;
to 2.5m, 1.5m, 0.3m.

These will let you snorkel fine until June 1943, then you must dive lower in water to avoid the better radars at 1.5 meters, then after June 1944 the radar is 0.3m almost impossible to not get detected unless in very smooth water to let snorkel work (water waves higher than 0.3m will shut it off).

Destroyers have thier own radar types too.

[Jungman]

Fixed snorkel/radar bug; crude but works (want to clean it up a bit). Found out your crew sensors data is in the Sensors.dat file itself. Alot of stuff can be tweaked.

Seen a posible fix for the 180 degree radar reading. The MaxBearing is at 360 while the MaxElevation is at only 180. Thus 180 is 'cut off' like a reflection.

Check it out. I am setting Visual to 20 km for the fun of it, you can edit alot more stuff (prob_detect, sweep arc, sweep rate, precision Range, max range, Surface Area, etc).

think I will start a new thread soon just for this stuff, Snorkel_Radar bug fix. Radar_Reverse fix, and a better Visual 20/20 model beyond 8 km (which helps to spot airplanes and ship smoke over the horizon even though you cannot see it rendered). You can set the detection rate at long distance, and fog plus night time will decrease it dramatically.

Type XX1 radar 391 on the snorkel has an odd co-ordinates. It is not connected on top of the snorkel! Floating like a ghost off to the side?? No wonder it says radar destroyed...did not try fix that yet, just noticed it from this post and looking at the raw data....

[Duncan Idaho]

Hey, that's some good work you're doing here. I had thought the snorkel radar might not be mounted right, but had no idea where to look.

I think a lot of folks will be interested in anything you do to increase visibility, as that's one of the more common complaints among the realism crowd, (and I don't blame them, 7k visibility is pretty low compared to what you'd really see).

I think a lot of the stuff in this thread should maybe be added to the faq or something, as there seem now to be fixes for a lot of the IX series and the XXI subs. (And if you can fix that snorkel radar, the XXI sub would be totally fixed now).

Oh, I should mention that that snorkel radar is purchasable for the VIIC/42, wonder if it's the same problem for that ship?

Anyway, pretty sweet! Nicely done!

[tycho102]

This is an outstanding thread, and I feel many of the tweaks discussed in here worthwhile. I've not gotten past 1940 just yet (the game hasn't been agreeing with my system), but I'm currently working on it. I think the game's balance needs to be adjusted on several levels.


With the radar, it's important to keep in mind that ~2.4ghz is absorbed by water, very efficiently. When the radar climbed on up toward 10ghz, it was still attenuated by the water, but the metal snorkel was like a mirror. Similar to when you're shining a hand-held laser pointer onto a stop sign or license plate, it gives a really bright return in comparision to the surroundings. This is exactly what operaters were trained to look for, that enormous return in between waves.

So the 10ghz radar really could pickup a snorkel on the surface, in theory (radar sets work different in the field ;) ). And because the planes have that enormous height difference, they could definately spot it out of the background reflection. But ships were another matter entirely, and it took a "veteran" crew to be alert enough to spot that millisecond blip on the antenna rotation.

With 5ghz radar on a ship, the only time they would get a strong return is in calm waters. Planes could pickup a snorkel in wave-action, but it would take an alert operator, and he would have to verify it (<-- extra time) amongst all the other false returns.

[Syxx_Killer]

There is a work around for this bug. It works with the other boats. Do not use it at snorkel depth. The game engine thinks you are on the surface of the ocean and thier radar picks you up.

The thing is, I do use it at periscope depth. I don't use snorkel depth. I know radar could pick the snorkel up, but I think maybe it does it too easily.

Your findings, Jungman, are very promising! I do look forward to the thread if you post it. Btw, if you still need someone to test it, I will be glad too. :)

[Faamecanic]

Fixed snorkel/radar bug; crude but works (want to clean it up a bit). Found out your crew sensors data is in the Sensors.dat file itself. Alot of stuff can be tweaked.

Seen a posible fix for the 180 degree radar reading. The MaxBearing is at 360 while the MaxElevation is at only 180. Thus 180 is 'cut off' like a reflection.

Check it out. I am setting Visual to 20 km for the fun of it, you can edit alot more stuff (prob_detect, sweep arc, sweep rate, precision Range, max range, Surface Area, etc).

think I will start a new thread soon just for this stuff, Snorkel_Radar bug fix. Radar_Reverse fix, and a better Visual 20/20 model beyond 8 km (which helps to spot airplanes and ship smoke over the horizon even though you cannot see it rendered). You can set the detection rate at long distance, and fog plus night time will decrease it dramatically.

Type XX1 radar 391 on the snorkel has an odd co-ordinates. It is not connected on top of the snorkel! Floating like a ghost off to the side?? No wonder it says radar destroyed...did not try fix that yet, just noticed it from this post and looking at the raw data....

Great JOB JUNGMAN!! Cant wait to see some of these fixes in action.... sadly my career is almost over (Feb 1945). If this fixes most of the issues...I may have to go back to when I first bought the XXI in April 44.

[User 1834]

...(And if you can fix that snorkel radar, the XXI sub would be totally fixed now)....

No, the battery system is still broken. Cdr Gibs"fix" allows the sub to move at flank speed indefinitely on batteries which is, as I am sure you already know, not realistic at all. We need to find some way of making the recharge time shorter and, if possible, making the battery recharge to 100%. Still, excellent job on the Snorkel radar fix.

[Duncan Idaho]

...(And if you can fix that snorkel radar, the XXI sub would be totally fixed now)....

No, the battery system is still broken. Cdr Gibs"fix" allows the sub to move at flank speed indefinitely on batteries which is, as I am sure you already know, not realistic at all. We need to find some way of making the recharge time shorter and, if possible, making the battery recharge to 100%. Still, excellent job on the Snorkel radar fix.

Yeah, forgot about that one :oops: , but with the fix, I'm not bothered. I'm not so hung up on 'realism' that I can't work around the limited battery flaw. I know I can go at flank for days underwater, but I don't.

Hmm, which makes me wonder now what the actual problem is with the batteries? Or is it a problem with the diesels? Where to begin? :damn:

[Faamecanic]

...(And if you can fix that snorkel radar, the XXI sub would be totally fixed now)....

No, the battery system is still broken. Cdr Gibs"fix" allows the sub to move at flank speed indefinitely on batteries which is, as I am sure you already know, not realistic at all. We need to find some way of making the recharge time shorter and, if possible, making the battery recharge to 100%. Still, excellent job on the Snorkel radar fix.

Yeah, forgot about that one :oops: , but with the fix, I'm not bothered. I'm not so hung up on 'realism' that I can't work around the limited battery flaw. I know I can go at flank for days underwater, but I don't.

Hmm, which makes me wonder now what the actual problem is with the batteries? Or is it a problem with the diesels? Where to begin? :damn:

Im not totally hung up on realism.... but the batt Infinate charge is a bit too much for me... sigh.... But still a GREAT job on investigating. If the Schnorkel radar works...then I can live with the batts being bugged.

[Jungman]

I need a beta tester to try this snorkel radar fix. The three basic radar sensitivity is 0.03m, 0.3m, and 1.5m.

I changed them to 0.3m, 1.5m, 2.5m respectively.

Just I guess. It is the radar MinSurface values for the 18 radar types used by the enemy ships and airplanes. I modified my AI_Sensors.dat file, which is used by my new SonarDC_20 Mod.

The only affect is the DD are not as Super Lock On in the game for SonarDC_20 Mod.

Knowing that, and if this works decent (or need to change some values) I will make another version for use with the stock game file.

Give it a try...I do not have time to test it yet....Snorkel Mod

http://rapidshare.de/files/3202118/AI_Sensors.dat.html :sunny:

Just place it in you DATA/Library folder. Backup original.

Your Schnorkel will have a better chance not to be detected by airplanes so easily via the later year radars. You do not need to restart a patrol or carreer -should be immediate from an ingame save....even you periscope...and go slow not to set off visual detection.

[Syxx_Killer]

Thanks for the work, Jungman! I look forward to trying it out later. :yep:

[tycho102]

Man, you all. I think the only thing that could stand to be tweaked with the airplanes is the range. The range at which they can spot you. I don't have any idea, but based on vacuum tubes, air-cooled magnetrons and primitive receiver technology, I'm going to guess 12 miles. A 12 mile radius with the 5ghz sets, at 2000 meters altitude. Probably pretty close to 20 miles with the 10ghz sets.

If you want to argue about arc-resolution, I'm completely open to debate that issue. I have no doubt that a plane's arc-resolution sucked, compared to a ship's resolution. The ship has right next to no mass restrictions, so they could shove the heaviest thing on there that could be manufactured. But a plane is patrolling at ~160knots, compared to your 17 knots. It's like resolving a fixed-target. They could circle you at 8km, and nail down your position in early 1944 with the 5ghz radar.

A ship, on the other hand, is going to have a lot more water to pound through. I'd guess a third of whatever the plane's range was; possibly a fourth.

You're changing the minimum height, and you need to be able to change the sensitivity of each individual radar set. It's not the same thing as changing the minimum height, but I can certainly understand if it's the "best" that can be done with the game; a workaround, but certainly not a realistic fix of the simulation.

[Syxx_Killer]

Well, I quickly did to tests of your file, Jungman. Sadly, I think they are still attracted to the snorkel like a dog to a bone. The first test was done with a wind speed of 8m/s, partial clouds, no precip, light fog. The second test was pretty much the same except for 13m/s winds. I can to periscope depth and not more than an hour later (game time) two Sunderlands showed up. In the second test it was a couple hours longer before they showed. Each time they caused heavy damage, with the second being a death blow. :damn:

[August]

I've been using the snorkle for awhile now and i don't have any problems with planes being attracted to it.

Of course i only use the snorkle at night and run on batteries during the day.

[Jungman]

Remember, later war radar is at 0.3m instead of 0.03m. That means your snorkel must be BELOW those values so not to be detected.

After June 1944 the Centrimetric radar was introduced and it was very good at spotting a snorkel. You can snorkel with this mod until war's end -but your snort is going to have to be very low in the water with the waves probably shutting it of and on unless in windspeed under 3 m/s.

The other old radars, 1.5m now 2.5m should have no problems. The next radars (around 1941-43) from 0.3m to 1.5m should have no problem with radars except you must lay snort lower in water, it is about the height of the Attack scope 5m tall above water, go lower depth to only around 2 m is sticking up. Windspeed over 7m/s will probably start to overwash it and cause it to turn on/off.

I want to make it better, but not unreal. The radar in airplanes were very good to spot high up in the air looking down. The ship radar can be lessened..but listening to feedback. :)

I did not make it impossible to be cloaked,,,just easier and finding that sweet spot is very long testing procedure...so i guess it is 50% Ok so far...keep up reports, plus if you can, tell what plane and month/year it is (tells me what indiviudal radar set make need a personal tweak). Use your Noise meter too for feedback, and alot of these radars can see out to 15 km.

Syxx_Killer Sunderlands have the best radar in game...what year and month are you in please? If it is after June 1944, your snort must be below 0.3m and not meant to work if the wind is above about 3-5 m/s...

I should say in winds over 13 m/s your sub is showing and bobbing up in the air. Planes will spot you no matter what. unless I changed MinHeight (then radar will never see you sitting on the water on a clam sea.) Your snorkel is not suppossed to work in High sea states. Above 13 m/s is bad.

[Syxx_Killer]

I know the snorkel can be detected on radar. I just think that it is too easily detected by radar in the game. When I got attacked I didn't save it, but prior to that (a few game days erailer) the save says June 22, 1944. The planes that attacked were Sunderlands.

Ok, I was scrolling through the list of posts while typing this and saw your edit.

your snort must be below 0.3m

What does that mean? The snorkel must barely break the surface? What kind of radar do the Sunderlands have?

[Jungman]

See a post earlier for Sunderland radars up above in this thread.

After June 1, 1944 they have the best radar in game. The ASVMarkVII.

It can see you out from 16km (beyond your visual range) and has 0.03m centimeter radar by default!!

Which means you have NO chance not to be seen, even with the snorkel surface reflection (0.1m wide multiply 3 meters above water = 0.3 meter square >> 0.03m).

I changed it to 0.3m (10x) so if you stay below 0.3m top of snorkel, it will not see you. (Actually maybe 0.5 meter). I do not know since I did not test in game. Thatradar is very good. I set it to 0.3m which is like the older version so maybe you can hide from them lowing low enough in the water AND the waves are not too high. High waves uncovers the snorkel mast and exposes it to radar.

I set it so you could use snorkel after June 1, 1944 but only in a calm sea state (waves less than overwashing your snorkel which will make it turn on/off) and snorkel below about 0.5 to 0.3 meter above water surface.
----------------------------repost if not seen

Yes, late war, here is data from the Sunderland SNS

[Sensor 5]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkI
StartDate=19410101
EndDate=19430601

[Sensor 6]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkIII
StartDate=19430601
EndDate=19440601

[Sensor 7]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkVII
StartDate=19440601
EndDate=19451231

ASVMarkI Range 8 km MinSurface 1.5m
ASVMarkII Range 10 km MinSurface 1.5m
ASVMarkIII Range 12 km MinSurface 1.5m
ASVMarkVI Range 14 km MinSurface 0.3m
ASVMarkVII Range 16 km MinSurface 0.03m

As you can see, the last years war radar is 0.3m and .03m. That last year war radar would be impossible to hide a snorkel from, and the radar in the Sim.cfg does not have a range penalilty applied to it. Even 0.3 m is pretty darn good to detect you. And that is in June 1943.

Many people have lamented about the snorkel being detected by radar so easy.

All radar is at leat 1.5 meters, then goes to 0.3 meters, then the impossible 0.03m (3 cm radar).

That is why snorkel above less than 1.5 barely about waves will work and not get detected.

I believe this should be modded up to higher values.

First guess is from 1.5m, 0.3m , 0.03m;
to 2.5m, 1.5m, 0.3m.

These will let you snorkel fine until June 1943, then you must dive lower in water to avoid the better radars at 1.5 meters, then after June 1944 the radar is 0.3m almost impossible to not get detected unless in very smooth water to let snorkel work (water waves higher than 0.3m will shut it off).

Destroyers have thier own radar types too.
I am guess at a good number.

[Jace11]

When one talks of 0.3m or 0.03m, one is refering to the wavelength of the radar system? Centrimentric = 0.03m (3cm) so one can assume the developers simply entered the correct wavelength for the correct system. It can detect you, but then in reality it could detect small objects like a snorkel also.

[Syxx_Killer]

Wow. That radar pretty much makes the snorkel useless, then. :-?

The Type XXI undermined each element of the Allied ASW posture that won the Second Battle. The snorkel, which had a much lower radar cross section than a surfaced submarine, gave the submarine back its tactical mobility. That is, it could once again move at speed on its main engine for great distances without molestation by air ASW forces.

I got that from here:

http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/cno/n87/history/cold-war-asw.html

Reading that makes me confused. If that radar was that good, why would a u-boat commander risk using the snorkel? He would probably stand a better chance on the surface. :-?

[Jace11]

Because the game doesn't model ground clutter or reflections from the sea. In perfect conditions (a perfectly flat sea) a centrimetric radar should detect a snorkel sized object, but in a slight swell with moving waves, the effectiveness is reduced. The waves create variation in returns, making it difficult to spot a small object.

Centimetric was a major leap forward in radar, giving higher resolution. But it was still limited by physics. I think radars these days go mm and micrometer - "microwaves".

Theory vs Reality vs in game physics model = this problem with the snorkel.

BTW this is just my opinion, i am no physisist and im probably talking male cow.

[Syxx_Killer]

After more testing, I am CONVINCED the snorkel issue lies beyond the radar. I am still on the same patrol with the XXI. Everytime I got killed (which is dozens of times now), it was while using the snorkel. I have run on the surface for long periods of time without seeing ANY planes. When I submerge and start to snorkel the planes show up like clockwork. It is like the probability of encountering planes while snorkeling has been raised. Is there such a value in the game files? I have since raised the ability of the AA guns to be manned in 15m/s winds. I have only done this to the XXI because it doesn't look like the crew could fall out of their turret housing. :P :lol:

This is more than frustrating. :damn: :damn: :damn:

It was like once I left the "Sunderland gap" (grid AF area) and I got a bit southwest of my patrol zone (AM12) - enter the B-24s. You guessed it - while snorkeling they got me. On the surface they were no where to be seen. I might as well paint a giant bullseye on the sub or fly a big flag that says, "Hey! Free u-boat for the taking over here guys!" :hulk: :hulk: :damn: :damn:

[Jace11]

Yep, try adjusting your depth I guess or wait a few days and someone may come up with a fully working mod. In the meantime, here is a little guide to help you survive..

If your XXI is getting singled out by the aircraft, I suggest a slightly unrealistic alternative (surface!!)

AUTO DIVE DOES NOT SAVE LIVES

If you select auto dive as your option, during a plane encounter, I believe you're more likely to die...

Reason.. Aircraft AI has problems targetting fast moving targets - fact (became apparent during AirPower testing). Elite planes suffer this more that veterans and so on. It is as if the Elite planes are more "fussy" and want to drop a perfect pattern. As a result, if you are on the surface and doing 17 knots (or faster due to an upgrade) they will overfly but not drop. Veterans may, but usually drop over. Competent planes are actually the most dangerous!!! Ironic. The exception is when the plane is coming from dead ahead... 0 degree bearing, then they seem to drop. So turn them to 90 or 270 degrees and hit flank speed as soon as the report comes in. If you have auto dive on, as soon as the report comes in you will dive.... reducing your speed to a crawl. Also, as you cant access the bridge as the dive has already started it can be impossible to sight the planes and judge the threat!! Once the dive is in progress, the planes have an easy, slow moving target... THE END

It is hard, as the first instinct on hearing the "aircraft spotted" is to crash dive....

If you stay on the surface, wait till they overfly and drop their bombs (which should miss) and then crash dive. As you at full speed, the crash dive should be more effecient. Dont use rudder, it saps knots. Dive to 100m and then move away. It takes the planes quite a while to turn around and come in for another attack.

That's my advice anyway, till a mod or something helps you.

Also at 1024 Time Compression, which is my MAX TC, I never get air attacks...

[Syxx_Killer]

When a plane or ship is spotted I have it set to do nothing. I don't like that option to dive to periscope depth. It takes so long. I might as well stay on the surface. At least I'd live. :huh: (Boy that sounds ironic.)

If you stay on the surface, wait till they overfly and drop their bombs (which should miss) and then crash dive.

I do this routinely. Especially with the IXD2. If a plane is spotted and I order crash dive, with how long that thing takes, I'm dead before I hit 10 meters. :lol:

Also at 1024 Time Compression, which is my MAX TC, I never get air attacks...

That's odd. Maybe I will try that sometime while snorkeling. Not sure if it will make a difference for me nor not. I will probably end up dead before I even knew what hit me. The last few times I was attacked, I had the observation scope up as well and the plane never showed up on the nav map. :damn:

[Jungman]

SyxxPaK
:-j
Liberator B-24 is even more deadly...gets the best radar even earlier than the Sunderlands.

[Sensor 4]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19410101

[Sensor 5]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkI
StartDate=19410101
EndDate=19430101

[Sensor 6]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkIII
StartDate=19430101
EndDate=19440101

[Sensor 7]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkVII
StartDate=19440101
EndDate=19451231

[wabos43]

Theres no way that the radar as its currently modelled is accurate. The ASV III was unable to detect a snorkel period, indeed the only ASV radar that could was the ASV X, which came into service during the end of 1944. This radar was found to be able to detect a snorkel from a maximum range of 3 miles and that was in dead flat calm.

Another thing I'd be interested to know from the other members is how well the U Boat radar detectors are modelled. It seems to me that the Metox set is completely wrong. With a good operator at the set it was possible to detect an ASV I and AV II set from roughly 8 km away (sometimes more sometimes less), I'm finding that I'm only getting a radar emission warning when the planes are sitting right on top of me less than 3 km away, giving no time for a crash dive especially when combined with the lethal airpower mod. Also it seems that the Metox in SH III can still detect centimetric radar such as the ASV III, which it should not be able to.

Similarly the Borkum and Naxos sets should be able to detect radar emissions at a distance of 40 kilometers. The Tunis set should be able to detect emissions at 60 km.

[Faamecanic]

That was my line of thought too....yes the last generation radar in late war could detect a schnorkel...but at WHAT range. I would think the planes would have to be within a close radius to get the small radar signature of the schnorkel.

I think maybe the radar is accurate...but what isnt accurate is the amount of planes that "just happen" to be within a 20 mi radius (or whatever radius they would have to be to see your sub) to detect your schnorkel.

I know when I schnorkel with ANY sub...its like a big red flag sticking up out of the water saying "Drop bombs here for best results".

If you read Werner's book Iron Coffins.... the only subs that really had any degree of freedom under heavy air cover after D-Day were the schnorkel equiped subs.

[wabos43]

That was my line of thought too....yes the last generation radar in late war could detect a schnorkel...but at WHAT range. I would think the planes would have to be within a close radius to get the small radar signature of the schnorkel.

I think maybe the radar is accurate...but what isnt accurate is the amount of planes that "just happen" to be within a 20 mi radius (or whatever radius they would have to be to see your sub) to detect your schnorkel.

In terms of the snorkel the radar is most certainly not accurate, as I said only the ASV X was found to detect it, and even then it was only within a 3 mile radius in flat calm. In practice these conditions are not found in he Atlantic, so detecting a snorkel by ASV was, to say the least, extremely rare.

Otherwise the ASV II range on a surfaced boat should be 12 miles and for the ASV III, 40 miles, again these ranges are for a surfaced u boat in relatively calm seas. It would also depend on the height of the aircraft as well.

I know when I schnorkel with ANY sub...its like a big red flag sticking up out of the water saying "Drop bombs here for best results"..

Yeah its the same for me and it just simply doesn't reflect reality.


In reference to my earlier comments does anyone know what the ranges are for the radar detectors in SH III, I don't have the ability to read the .DAT files, so if anyone knows it would be a good start, because at the moment the RWR's (Metox, Naxos etc) do not seem to be modelled correctly.

[Jungman]

Did you try the first beta of the Snorkel_Radar fix for radar? I nerfed the values, but do not know if they are good enough nerfed.

It changed the MinSurface values so not as good. I may have to change the MinHeigth values instead if it is not working. MinHeight is set for zero. I would set it for 0.5m to 2.5m for the different enemy active radars. this needs alot of beta testing. I spent a month finding values for the Super Sonar that worked well.

The radar detectors ranges in the game are not very good. Here they are from the Sensors.dat file.

One moment to cut and paste here.

Main ones I found so far. They are all the same except for thier maximum detection range. Sweep period 15 (seconds?). Height 15000m. Min MaxSurface 1m to 25000m.

MaxRange for Radar Warning Dectectors:

Metox = 4 km
Borkum = 5 km
Naxos = 7.5 km
Tunis = 10 km

As you see, the enemy airplanes and DD will see you long before you will ever pick them up. Plus a sweep period of 15 seconds is along time for an airplane attacking you (may never see it coming unless the Probability to Detect is increased).

[Jungman]

Syxx_Killer

I have run on the surface for long periods of time without seeing ANY planes. When I submerge and start to snorkel the planes show up like clockwork. It is like the probability of encountering planes while snorkeling has been raised. Is there such a value in the game files?

If running on the SURFACE does not attract planes as much compared to running UNDERWATER with Snorkel raised...then the radar nerf will not work.

I will either have to set Minimum radar Height from zero to say 0.5m to 2.5m for the different enemy active radars. This is different from changing MinSurface size for detection.

Or the Surface Size for the Snorkel is too big. I will look into the Snorkel.dat value and see what it is. It could be the size much bigger than your sub and thus it will attract fast airplanes like bone to the dog.

[wabos43]

Did you try the first beta of the Snorkel_Radar fix for radar? I nerfed the values, but do not know if they are good enough nerfed.

It changed the MinSurface values so not as good. I may have to change the MinHeigth values instead if it is not working. MinHeight is set for zero. I would set it for 0.5m to 2.5m for the different enemy active radars. this needs alot of beta testing. I spent a month finding values for the Super Sonar that worked well.

The radar detectors ranges in the game are not very good. Here they are from the Sensors.dat file.

One moment to cut and paste here.

Main ones I found so far. They are all the same except for thier maximum detection range. Sweep period 15 (seconds?). Height 15000m. Min MaxSurface 1m to 25000m.

MaxRange for Radar Warning Dectectors:

Metox = 4 km
Borkum = 5 km
Naxos = 7.5 km
Tunis = 10 km

As you see, the enemy airplanes and DD will see you long before you will ever pick them up. Plus a sweep period of 15 seconds is along time for an airplane attacking you (may never see it coming unless the Probability to Detect is increased).


I tried your modified file and found planes pick up the snorkel even when I use it from periscope depth, also I had the anti radar coating so it should be even harder to find.

Its interesting about the radar warning sensors you've found. The values are wrong as modelled, giving no time to submerge against oncoming aircraft. If you see my last post the values should be:

Metox: 8 km for ASV I and ASV II radar but not able to detect ASV III and above
Borkum: 20 km capable of detecting ASV III and above
Naxos: 40 km capable of detecting ASV III and above
Tunis: 60 km capable of detecting all ASV models


The above comes from "Type VII: Uboats" by Robert Stern and THE U-BOAT: The Evolution and Technical History of German Submarines
by Eberhard Rossler, so I think the above figures are pretty accurate. Judging by other literature, if the U Boat had the necessary equipment to detect the emissions then there was sufficient time to submerge. Which currently isn't working in the current model. I dont really know how to change these values, but concerning the snorkel problems being detected it seems to me that at the same time the RWR systems need to be changed also.

[Jungman]

I tried your modified file and found planes pick up the snorkel even when I use it from periscope depth, also I had the anti radar coating so it should be even harder to find.


It is easy enough to change the range on the Radar Warning detectors, if the game models out that far, I think max is 25 km for any sensor parameter. So I can boost them in proportion should help alot if on the surface to give time to dive. :yep:

Can you tell me what Month and Year, and airplane if you remember, so I can tell what ASV Mark radar was being used against you?

I only guess at a value that may work. The last year war .03m radar I changed to 0.3m which means your snorkel will have to be barely above the water. Using the Noise Meter is a good way to see if they are detecting you. Myabe increase this to 0.6m.... :hmm:

I have other tricks to try out too. This is still very beta tesing. ALOT of testing.

[wabos43]

Well it was January 1944 and there were two attacks the first was by a Wellington and then two Avengers arrived on the scene as well. This was in the North Sea slightly before nightfall. :hmm:

[Jungman]

Wellington has a bug in it. It has the radar Mark III until end date of June 1, 1944. Then nothing. The Wellingtons radar drops off until end of the war after that date. There should be another radar set to upgrade ASVMark something better than MarkIII until wars end of December 31, 1945. At least let change the date to wars end.

Means alot of Wellingtons are flying around after June 1, 1944 to war end with NO radar specified. Unless the Wellington is removed from the game after that date.

[Sensor 3]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=ASVMarkIII
StartDate=19430601
EndDate=19440601


Avengers have NO radar!!

[Sensor 4]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

So in Jan 1944 only Wellington will have radar ASVMarkIII, while the Avengers NEVER have radar :o .

Th ASVMark III default game value is 12 km range at 0.3m MinSurface. I moded that from 0.3m to 1.5m.

The Wellington will spot your snorkel if it is stick more than 1.5 meters high above water surface. At periscope depth, I had to go about 1 meter lower to get the snort below that mark and not get detected. Waves play into this too, hiding you but also shutting off snorkel on/off.

The Avengers have NO radar so they cannot see you using your snorkel except by Visual sensor (Mark I Eyeball :) )

If you were stopped in the water, underwater, you should be able to snorkel with no problem.

I am suspecting the surface area defined for the snorkel is too big in its dat file. The Periscope does not get detected so easily.

[wabos43]

Yes its was a twilight so in theory it was a visual sightings. I'll try snorkeling in the middle of the night and see what happens. If anyone attacks then it can only be from radar fix.

[wabos43]

OK just tried a new scenario, this time November 1944 with a Type XXI boat. I started snorkeling from periscope depth in the North Sea in the middle of the night, I was unmolested by aircraft for the entire night. This was in wind speed 6 seas, I'm not sure how well you could run the snorkel in higher wind speeds though. I found in calm sea you can still make the snorkel work from 17 m depth, it just skims the surface.

Clearly the first time they were eyeballing me. BTW I should say I'm using the airpower mod, so I don't know if the radar is still faulty in the Wellington.

Well with this change and if the radar detectors can be set to historical limits it would seem that the survivability issues can be much improved. Let me know if you need any more info for the radar detectors Jungman :yep:

[Syxx_Killer]

Has there been any progress regarding the issues mentioned in this thread? :cool: :up:

[Jungman]

Yes. I just did a major test to fix the Snorkel / airplane spotting problem.

The mod listed for the Snorkel_Radar fix will help from hiding from radar. But listen to this.

I made the enemy Visual range to zero to get it out of the way. The Snorkel is not detected at all April 1943 by several radars, A Flower Corvette type 286 had a range of 3 km at 1.5m MinSurface modded to 2.5m. You extend the Snorkel completly high up.

Also Catilina airplanes using the ASVMark I radar set for that 2.5m never picks you up with radar.

Nor the aircraft carrier using SP radar set for 0.3m modded to 1.5m.

The problem is that the Snorkel VISUAL size is Huge!

It is not radar that is causing the problem per say.

If you are cruising with snorkel underwater, the airplanes sees the Snorkel Visual area as extremely big. And they attack from far away. It is not the radar.

I am going to put the original values for radar back in with the Visual enemy AI set to zero to shut it off, and test the default values to pick up the Snorkel, to see if changing the radar signature has any real effect.

Unfortunatley, I cannot find the data for the Snorkel VISUAL surface area to lower it to something a bit bigger than the periscope size. As it is now, the game thinks the Snorkel is as big as your submarine.!!

You can only use it if you barely have it above the water.

Unless I can find the Visual data for the Snorkel, So far no luck at all, only a 'reduction' of MinHeight to Visual sensor in the AI_Sensors.dat file from zero to say 1.5m will let you snorkel better without being seen. Of course your scope is even more invisible. This is not the greatest solution for this problem.

It would make you periscope and snorkel invisible below 1.5m and maybe you could go flank speed and the ship will never see you. I need to test this in game and see what happens, if this could be used as a viable fix. Least I fix one thing, and breaks another part of gameplay mechanics.

[Jungman]

I used the original AI_Sensor.dat file and stock radar values.

It seems to make no difference. Testing with the Visual set for zero range (blind airplanes and DD), the snorkel will not be detected by radar. At least the 0.3m band. The 0.03m radar maybe a different story....

It does seem it is the "Visual Size" of the snorkel is too big. Anyone know where this is stored? I never found it. :roll:

Sorry to highjack this thread...I am going to create a new thread with all the new findings summary.

[tycho102]

I used the original AI_Sensor.dat file and stock radar values.

It seems to make no difference. Testing with the Visual set for zero range (blind airplanes and DD), the snorkel will not be detected by radar. At least the 0.3m band. The 0.03m radar maybe a different story....

It does seem it is the "Visual Size" of the snorkel is too big. Anyone know where this is stored? I never found it. :roll:

Sorry to highjack this thread...I am going to create a new thread with all the new findings summary.

Oh no. You didn't hijack the thread, at all. You just found the base-cause for the entire mess. If the surface area of the snorkel really is massive (as it would seem), then that's the only thing that needs to be changed. The area will be quite a bit larger than just a typical periscope, though, especially with the later models. I imagine the flat surfaces and the enormous head really put out strong returns, over just an ordinary periscope. I'd imagine nothing over 15m^2, with a periscope giving 6-7.

[Syxx_Killer]

Thanks for all the work Jungman! It doesn't surprise me that the snorkel would appear as huge to the aircraft. I'm looking around different files in the folder, but I don't know if I will find anything. I'm not sure what I am really looking for, but I'd love to help out someway.

[Jungman]

Ok then it is good to speak here. I am testing with special hack files which shut off the enemy AI radar, visual, and sonars.

This helps me track it down. The airplanes have less visual time to see you Uboat flying so fast, the detect time is 15 seconds for a sweep.

It is almost a combination problem.

The airplanes are high up in air and do not suffer visual clutter as the DD do flat on the ocean.

But the opposite is true for the Radar. The DD are in detection range longer...vice versa for airplanes.

I think maybe the best way to go is maybe a small tweak to the Visual MinHeight from zero to maybe 0.5m. Or a tweak to the Surface detect from zero to a small value.

Plus a small nerf to the radar MinSurfaces. I tell you, the interplay of all this together is a most difficult task to balance out just right.
Change one value to help airplanes ruins DD, help the snorkel againts DD hurts airplanes too much.

Unless I can find where the surface data is stored for Snorkel and Periscope against radar and visual, then all I can do is a small tweak. It will not be most ideal...but generally it should stop super spotting using the snorkel most of the time, not always.

Another thing, the snorkel depth in a type VIIC boat is default 10m depth and in 5 m/s waves the boat itself is being seen in whole. When using the snorkel manually set your snorkel to just enough to break the waves and work. That helps alot, and needs to be done with this Mod. I use depth 11m with waves at 5 m/s.

That is not so bad considering how much trouble the real Uboat captains had with the snorkel in big waves and being spotted on the surface between radar/visual from 'airplane and DD combo'.

Update:
Just one last thought, maybe use the airplanes speed and time over target against itself. I could increase the time for a Visual detect. It will not affect you attack against merchant and Destroyer ships since you will spend all long time mostly compared to seconds or a few minutes for airplanes.

Thus a change to Visual detect time will hurt the airplanes much greater than Ships spotting you.

[wabos43]

Jungman is it going to be possible to change the Radar warning detectors to the proper specifications, like we previously discussed?

[Jungman]

I think they should be increased, in proportion to the game's world limit of 25 km.

The enemy ship radar has a long range beyond visual, and just for game sake, the Uboats really could detect those strong signals from far away also. (though many captains thought the RD were putting off signals that the allies were picking up and never used them)

What happens in game if you are using TC to speed things up, the airplane especially with 15 km radar will pick you up and you are dead with a dozen airplanes on you. With a more functional decent range on the radar warning, it should alert you there are airplanes in the vicinity.

This may help people to get ready for an airstrike, and/or stop and dive to periscope.

This is very doable and I can give you a modified file Sensors.dat to test with. Tell me if you want to try it out. It may solve alot of problems with airplanes TC to hide faster.

The snorkel running under water being picked up so easy is still a problem I am trying to work around with a small nerf to either radar or visual parameters, without breaking the ability for DD and Ships to see your periscope sneaking in on them. It will work, just a heck alot of paly balance to get it just right without noticeable detriment to gameplay.

[wabos43]

Sure Jungman, I'd be happy to try it out. Certainly if the sensors range are increased, it will give much greater survivability, especially if using the Airpower mod.

[Jungman]

Well, here is a first shot at better RF detectors for yee Unterseeboot.

http://rapidshare.de/files/3358106/RF_Detect.rar.html

RF_Detect Mod :sunny:
-----------------------
RF_Detect Mod Jungman July 25, 2005 Silent Hunter III patch 1.4

This is a first try improvement to make your mostly worthless radar warning detectors up to historic values.
Indeed, it will help you detect those pesky airplanes long before they pounce on you, I hope. It will also
pick up any ships using radar. This needs to be tested. It maybe too good, or not enough.
place in your Data/Library folder. And as usual, backup your original Sensors.dat file.

Metox: 4km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Metox: 10km range @ 15 sec sweep New

Borkum: 5km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Borkum: 15km range @ 10 sec sweep New

Naxos: 7.5km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Naxos: 20km range @ 10 sec sweep New

Tunis: 10km range @ 15 sec sweep Old
Tunis: 25km range @ 5 sec sweep New

I increased in proportion out to the in game engine maximum limit of 25 km defined by Enemy Radar.
In practice, the best radar in game used by the enemy is only 16km. In the Sim.cfg or Sensors.cfg
the detection time is double when further than half the maximum range. So maybe the longer detect ranges
will have an affect. I aslo increased the Sweep Period faster for the better radar detectors in order to
make them better than the earlier models in case Enemy airplane radar range limits are a mute point.

I may reduce these down after some testing and feedback. I was liberal in the range. In game is a different story.
I need to figure out what is the real maximum, do they detect airplanes solid out beyond their radar at 25km
or do they actually detect the 'radar signals' from (8 to 16km) for airplanes, and (3 to 15 km) for Ships.

One last thing, this includes the Visual range increase out to 20km, which is actually limited to 10km.

I.E. Do these units work as Radar Detectors or Active Radars? It maybe why they were nerfed by Devs.

[Jace11]

Nice. I like the choices for ranges. I didn't even know they had sweeps times...

I don't know why they do. I though the RWR didn't sweep. They can't determine bearing.

You know, I was thinking, wouldn't it be great to attach a sound to the RWR. In reality you got an audible squak or tone each time the radar swept over. A solid tone if the radar focused on the boat (as happened with late war radars) and you could judge whether the aircraft was coming towards or moving away by the gap between bleeps.

[wabos43]

Jace, yes the Metox and Borkum did have an audible warning that increased in strength depending on the contact, the closer it was then the louder the tone, and this was connected to the U Boats speaker system. Unfortunately in SHIII the RWR mechanism in the radio room is not really modelled, if it was then you would be able to see the bearing. Later mechanisms like Naxos and Tunis presented the signals on a cathode ray tube oscilloscope (known as B-Rohr) which would present the intercepted radar signals similar to the visual presentation of the radar screen in SH III.

Jungman, one other thing strikes me here which is to not worry too much about the sweep times, because in the case of the Metox and Borkum systems they were 'swept' simply by a member of the watch crew rotating the Biskayakreuz by hand. Only with the Naxos onwards did you have permanent antennas (usually using the D/F loop on the u-boat) which could be rotated by the Funker from inside the boat.

Thanks for this, I'll try the file tonight and let you know how I get on.

[Jungman]

It is a big guess. I tested some. It definetly works.

I have a Metox and I get a report within 15 seconds of radar signals detected 5 to 10 km. I am trying to acertain if it is the actual radar signal (which is displayed as a circle) is detecting or the ship itself.

Makes a difference since best radar is 17 km for ship and airplanes, many are much less. I listed it in the readme above.

Basically what good does a 25 km range for radar detector when the games ships and airplanes so not cary that far ranging radar?

You could increase the range of your Uboat Active radar, then you could pick up contacts at distance. The Sweep time, sensitivity and one distance factor determines detection. Also the base detection ARC and Probability to Detect with Arc value is 16 degrees at 95% can be changed too.

I did settle on the snorkel fix, just make the MinHeight for Visual in the AI_Sensors.dat from zero to 1 meter. This allows snorkel usage much better, but not perfect. You must know to set snorkel about 1 meter above the waves, which in heavy waves is going to be hard and maybe get seen.

The XXI snorkel is much higher than the VIIC. It sticks way up so go lower in water with this change.

When you get close than about 3000m to 2000m you risk detection as normal since the mute factor is removed if within half a detectors max range. So for the snorkel is not seen willl at 8 km it will be start to show with 4 km of target.

So these two fixes, one for Snorkel in AI_Sensors.dat and basic changes to Sensors.dat for Radar Warning is working quite well to spot airplanes (and help with snorkel attracting).

I have no problems and did not break gameplay. :P

I am surprised no one downloaded the file yet. I guess I had this discussion in the wrong forum thread :yep: Time to announce it.

Wish people could beta test some more though. I have a new AI_Sensor.dat file for people to install the Snorkel fix, but it needs to be integrated into my SonarDC Mod they share. I can make a stand alone version for the default game. I need input for what to do -too many mods become confusing. I can place a link here for the one I am using to go in junction withthe one made above.

Between thses two, I think I may just call it SensorPak ?

[wabos43]

Jungman, tried out the mod. Its working great for me, especially with the ASV radars. The detectors are provided true security now. The sensorpak is a great idea and coupled with Rub and/or the Airpower mod, I think its simulating a far more realistic electronic warfare environment now. Great work. Sensorpak is also a good idea :up:

[Silverfox18]

Gee, I started this thread with a story about the XXI and now I see it has grown into a XXI FIX IT! :rotfl: Can we talk about stories or is that too much? :rotfl:
:sunny:

[difool2]

Will the detectors work while snorting then? I thought I read that
the detectors didn't work underwater even when the snorkel is
employed...

[Syxx_Killer]

Cool. This is looking great. SensorPak would be a great idea. I use your DC mod and would like to keep using it. :up: :up:

[Faamecanic]

Jungman...please do a default game mod also with schnorkel and radar detection. I currently dont use mods...but will use RuB soon (after I tire of the default game).

Awesome work :up: Again proving that the modders can do more than the devs are allowed to by UBISTANK. This is stuff that SHOULD have been fixed in 1.4b

difool2... I have read several places that in the late war, they did in fact have radar detection ON the schnorkel.

[Faamecanic]

Cool. This is looking great. SensorPak would be a great idea. I use your DC mod and would like to keep using it. :up: :up:

What does the DC mod do?

[Syxx_Killer]

This is from the readme in the latest version:

SonarDC_20 Mod July 14, 2005 Jungman

This is a second version of fixing the AI super sonar detection especially for DD that
have Elite crew. Plus fix for the Real DC blast radius and simulations effects included.

Main change is for less smaller nerf to the DD Active Sonar for patch 1.4.

The minimum Sonar Range was changed from default zero to 150 meters. (Was 200 m)

The maximum Sonar Bearing angle was reduced from -+ 90 degrees bow, to 60 degrees. (Same)

I left the sensitivity alone and Maximum Range alone for this version also.

The biggest problem I could see was trying to escape the death lock the DD has on you
and can never escape. The DD can out turn you in a circle and maintain a lock with the
90 degree sonar pointing right at you in the center. Since you cannot go any faster than
2 to 3 knots without being heard by the late year hydrophones of the DD, you cannot
get enough distance to sneak away without being picked up again. Also the Minimum Range
of 150m helps to break the accuracy of the DC or HH by moving quickly before the over run.

If this does not help enough, then the sensitivity can be toned down, and max range
decreased to allow for escape. The minimum sonar range of 150 m seems to help hide the
sub at depth better so you can sneak away slowly without being detected by the UberSeer
sonar.

There are 7 sonar active types, and 7 hydrophone passive.

Place the DepthCharge.zon Mod for the radius 20m blast, and the AI_Sensors.dat files
into your DATA/Library folder.....and always backup your original files.

Update:

New version SonarDC_20 for patch 1.4 is not so nerfed. The Minimum detect radius is
better from 200m to 150 meters to stay locked on your sub.

The DC blast radius is increased from 15 meters to 20 meters.

[Faamecanic]

Sweet! I will have to look for the download!

[Jungman]

Looky here, and try this out---contains the new Snorkel fix. Read about its proper usage so you do get caught with your snorkel hanging out in the open! :-j

I stuck all these mods into a pak. Many share the same file. Contains Active Sonar Super Lock-On fix, DC blast reduction to 20 meters, Improved Radar Warning Detectors fix, Carrots for Longer Visual Range for Watch Crew, und die Schnorkel fix.

SensorPak :sunny:

http://rapidshare.de/files/3448595/SensorPak.zip.html

EDIT: Updated to include the original SonarDC values with snorkel fix. You can chose between them.

[Duncan Idaho]

A little clarification: Just what is the new 'snorkel fix'? Is that the snorkel vs radar fix, or the fix that will allow you to actually use the snorkel mounted radar detector? (The latter is the fix I'm waiting to hear about).

[Faamecanic]

Hey Jungman... does that file have the SonarDC_mod AND Schnorkel/radar fix?

Thanks man!!!!!! :up:

EDIT: I see it does....thanks!

One more Question...does the snorkel visual detect fix work for ALL schnorkels? Or just XXI?

[Faamecanic]

From your readme

"do they actually detect the 'radar signals' from (8 to 16km) for airplanes, and (3 to 15 km) for Ships."

I beleive they could. As I have read Iron coffins and U564 "War Patrol" it seems the radar detector acted like those we have in our cars.

As the plane got closer the volume got louder on the detector, so the radio man could gauge if aircraft/ship was closing or not.

[Jungman]

The Snorkel fix is for the snorkel on all subs being spotted the size of a house visually by the enemy. I did not change the radar since it is not causing the problem -contrary to what most people thought. Helps with using TC while snorkeling and not get pounced upon by a dozen airplanes. As if the snorkel attracts them like a magnet.

Late war 3cm radar though may pick up the snorkel. Well, in June 1944 you were meant to die anyway. I could change the radar parameters also if it is a HUGE problem in the last 6 months of the war.

What is exactly wrong with the 391 radar for you? Is it just the XXI or do all subs get the FuMO391 upgrade to place upon the top of the snorkel?

When I looked at it, FuMO391 is an active radar; not a detector :o . The MinHeight is set for zero, which would be wrong. In order for it to work, it must be set for say -13m for underwater.

Or is it the 'radar destroyed' upon start of patrol and it does not work at all?

These are the three things I see people lament about most.

[Faamecanic]

First about the Radar destroyed... I dont get that. I DO get sonar destroyed in my IXd2... but it works eventhough it is reported as destroyed.

I think I see what your saying...the FuMO391 is a RADAR right? Not a radar detector. Im not sure if all subs had radar detection onthe schnorkel, but I would assume they would. But active radar on schnorkel.... that had to be one advanced radar to be that small to fit on the schnorke.


Im testing your files now in my old career patrol. I picked up where I had just bought the XXI in May 1944.... I'll report any findings here. Probably wont get to play much until this weekend though.... my reallife and job takes priority :roll:

[Syxx_Killer]

Well, I tried the SensorPak. So far I'm liking it. I actually managed to make it to my assignmed patrol area in my XXI (AM12). :rotfl:

Maybe I'm lazy, but I'm finding it a bit annoying to manually set 16m everytime. To change the snorkel depth to 16m, do all I have to do is change it in the sub's cfg file?

[Duncan Idaho]

The Snorkel fix is for the snorkel on all subs being spotted the size of a house visually by the enemy. I did not change the radar since it is not causing the problem -contrary to what most people thought. Helps with using TC while snorkeling and not get pounced upon by a dozen airplanes. As if the snorkel attracts them like a magnet.

Late war 3cm radar though may pick up the snorkel. Well, in June 1944 you were meant to die anyway. I could change the radar parameters also if it is a HUGE problem in the last 6 months of the war.

What is exactly wrong with the 391 radar for you? Is it just the XXI or do all subs get the FuMO391 upgrade to place upon the top of the snorkel?

When I looked at it, FuMO391 is an active radar; not a detector :o . The MinHeight is set for zero, which would be wrong. In order for it to work, it must be set for say -13m for underwater.

Or is it the 'radar destroyed' upon start of patrol and it does not work at all?

These are the three things I see people lament about most.

It's the Radar Destroyed, happens on the XXI, and VIIC/42 that I know of, and maybe on any sub that uses it. I forget who it was, but a few pages back, someone, (Cdr Gibs maybe?), stated he found that the radar's attachment point was actually 3 feet left of the snorkel (at least for the XXI), which is probably why it gets destroyed.

It's not a big bug for me, though it would be nice to have warning of aircraft coming when snorkeling for sure.

Anyway, thanks for the response, wasn't sure which 'fix' was being discussed anymore. lol

Edit: Oh my gawd...if that "Wild Night in Bankok" avatar isn't the scariest thing! I simply MUST post now. *shudder*

Re-edit: Apparently you don't keep it long...thank heavens.

[Average Joe]

Jungman,

I tried your RF_Detect.rar (with SonarDC_fix too).

Here's a screen-shot with both mods above. I'm about 450km S/W of Gibraltar, fleeing! :). The game-date is Feburary-1944.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/teehole/RF_detect-Sufaced.jpg

Detecting aircraft-radar earlier seems to work great! I received 2/3 warnings before having to worry about AC. Each decect-warning, I'm pretty sure it turned off Time-Accel.

The only problem I notice; the screen-shot shows a visual red-line, a contact from a closing destroyer. I'm not submerged, so the red DD contact-line should not be displayed(?) Or is this type of DD detection part of the mod?

p.s. I added your sensors.dat mod -during- a current patrol. I will probably remove it for now, then add the mod again, after my patrol is over and docked.

[Jungman]

Syxx: to set snort depth is easy. Just text edit with notepar/wordpad the file NSS_Uboat21.cfg inside the folder Data/Submarine/NSS_Uboat21. look for this entry...

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=15;meters
SnorkelDepth=14;meters ;Change this to 16m.
ersCrashDepth=70;meters
MaxDepth=300;meters
SurfaceDepth=8;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=50;meters
StormConditions=13,0.5;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

Average Joe: Yep it will pick up the radar from the Destroyers; they also have active radar from 3 to 16km. It would seem the game will pick up far away radar sources. Looks like a Naxos unit stock with XXI in 1944. 20 km.

Thanks for the feedback. I can make it so it does not pick up ships on water by simple setting the MinHeight of your Uboat Radar Dectector, MinSensor Height, Probability to Detect, and Surface Area to only pick up big taller ships, say above 20m high? You could have small Elco Armed Trawlers, or only big Battleship Carrier ships, or none at all detected via radar warnings. This would not affect your ability to continue picking the ships up from you Active radar though. Also merchant ships have no radar and will not show up.

I think since the game will pick up airplanes and warships out so far, I wonder if I should increase the detect time for the long range radar detectors?

Should the warnings only come from airplanes high up in air, or pick up only Big surface Tall Warships at that distance? Better than a Visual spotting, fire the Watch crew. LOL

I did make the Radar Warning Detectors over the top on purpose to make sure they worked. Now I think we need a nerf to maybe limiting to airplanes only (use your regular Uboat Active Radar to detect Warships and Merchant ships). And tone down the sweep speed and chance to detect. Else the game will be boring seeing all the Airplanes and Warships with radar around you. Then again the XXI was suppossed to do that. The Merchant ships do not carry radar and will not show up on the detectors.

I would need to increase your Uboat active radars then to balance this change out. As now, they at best only pick up from 10km the FuMO391. Or not....what good will fog/night be and stuff since this gives you super seeing ability.

How about installing Radar Detectors on the Warships so if you use your active radar to look for ships, they can be picking you up also?

Now I think we need a nerf to maybe limiting to airplanes only? Maybe only Big Warships too? Lower the range or only lower chance to detect per sweep for airplanes only mode?

[Average Joe]

Average Joe: Yep it will pick up the radar from the Destroyers; they also have active radar from 3 to 16km. It would seem the game will pick up far away radar sources. Looks like a Naxos unit stock with XXI in 1944. 20 km.

Well I did a bit more testing with your RF_Detect mod, and ran out of time, again.

The screenshot I posted (with red radar-contacts) even while surfaced? They show up when 'No Map-Contact Update' ('God's-Eye-Mode') realism-setting is not checked (not enabled). It is quite neat watching radar-tracks/lines with this easier setting though.

With 'God's-Eye-Mode' check-marked, enabling harder realism, no Red radar-contact lines (nor any other contact-lines) are visible,with modded or stock 'sensors.dat' file.

Having played with 'Gods-Eye-Mode' off, it's not that much harder. But patrols tend to last far too long, and more confusing. My sense of direction is not too 'keen' to put it mildly.. :o :-j

I don't dare comment too much on more technical questions you posted. They're best answered by others who know how these radars worked.

FWIW, it might be a good idea to drop general AC radar-detection by 30/50%(?) from your current mod setting. I've never really had too much trouble with those 'surprise' aircraft attacks (avoiding them mostly, until better radar is available). Yet many others say they get 'jumped' so quickly in time-accel.

[Jungman]

Thanks for more feedback and thoughts. I did make the radar detectors over the top just to make sure they worked. I agree they should not be so good now! :rotfl:

If people change the game setting in CFG so if a plane is spotted drop from TC to 1x, when a plane's radar is picked up by your Uboat detector, it will drop to 1x and they will get the message "RF signals detected!" So no one should really ever get jumped by airplanes in high TC. Unless they are snorkelling under water too fast and not watching the sky with a scope, and my snorkel fix helps alot too.

I wish for a decent progression of the range and detect time for each set. I think I got a good idea to nerf them down abit in a neat way.

I never get surprised by airplanes. I know exactly how they work... :smug:

What do you think about limiting the RF detectors to only airplanes? :hmm: It seems this was the main reason why they were installed onto Uboats in the first place historically.

Using hydrophones, normal active radar, and visual spotting is good enough to spot a surface warship. I feel using the Improved RF Detectors mod is cheating out the fun of knowing where the surface warships are at.

Thus I feel to make them so they will not pick up any surface warships using radar; or maybe if I can, only just the 'real big warships' (depends upon how the game considers the Height of the radar source of the enemy). Unless really close as would be in heavy fog -but active radar can do that with no penalty since no RF detectors are installed on warships.

Conclusion:

1) So if it possible, limit the RF Detectors to pick up mostly airplanes, and a lesser chance to pick up a Warship if really close, or large?

2) Plus nerf the detection chance per time sweep period down some 30% to 50% for the modded long range RF Detectors to simulate randomness. I agree. Default game is 95% in 15 seconds!

This will make using the Hydrophones, a good Visual watch crew, and your own Active radar still worth while to have.

[Faamecanic]

Average Joe: Yep it will pick up the radar from the Destroyers; they also have active radar from 3 to 16km. It would seem the game will pick up far away radar sources. Looks like a Naxos unit stock with XXI in 1944. 20 km.

Well I did a bit more testing with your RF_Detect mod, and ran out of time, again.

The screenshot I posted (with red radar-contacts) even while surfaced? They show up when 'No Map-Contact Update' ('God's-Eye-Mode') realism-setting is not checked (not enabled). It is quite neat watching radar-tracks/lines with this easier setting though.

With 'God's-Eye-Mode' check-marked, enabling harder realism, no Red radar-contact lines (nor any other contact-lines) are visible,with modded or stock 'sensors.dat' file.

Having played with 'Gods-Eye-Mode' off, it's not that much harder. But patrols tend to last far too long, and more confusing. My sense of direction is not too 'keen' to put it mildly.. :o :-j



I thought for sure those Lines were NOT RADAR contacts. Those are SOUND CONTACTS. Radar contacts actually show up as the Square with tail (or tirangle for airplanes).

Many a time I have been submerged and got the "Warship heading xxx, closing..." from the Hydrophone guy, and thats when the LINE pops up on the map.

I really think its a bad idea to not be able to detect radar from warships. Before there was radar detectioni in my career...I dont know how many times a DD came from out of the fog to RAM me. Just as the DD's bow scrapes my Hull OPen...my "crack" Watch Officer with Watchman specialization says "SHIP SPOTTED SIR"..... Oh... you think! I spotted the damn warship from inside my cabin ..I can read the DDs numbers through the HOLE in the top of the subs hull!!

Maybe a tweak would be to lower the range warship radar is detected vs. Aircraft?? What is the games default "Radar Detected" range for warships. That seemed to work pretty good.


I find it REALLY wierd how some people have problems with one thing and others dont.

For Example...I NEVER have the Radar destroyed on the XXI. But on the IX-D2 I ALWAYS have the sonar destroyed.... wierd.

[R48]

This will make using the Hydrophones, a good Visual watch crew, and your own Active radar still worth while to have

Sounds like a good idea. You can use everything at your disposal.

[wabos43]

Thanks for more feedback and thoughts. I did make the radar detectors over the top just to make sure they worked. I agree they should not be so good now! :rotfl:

If people change the game setting in CFG so if a plane is spotted drop from TC to 1x, when a plane's radar is picked up by your Uboat detector, it will drop to 1x and they will get the message "RF signals detected!" So no one should really ever get jumped by airplanes in high TC. Unless they are snorkelling under water too fast and not watching the sky with a scope, and my snorkel fix helps alot too.

I wish for a decent progression of the range and detect time for each set. I think I got a good idea to nerf them down abit in a neat way.

I never get surprised by airplanes. I know exactly how they work... :smug:

What do you think about limiting the RF detectors to only airplanes? :hmm: It seems this was the main reason why they were installed onto Uboats in the first place historically.

Using hydrophones, normal active radar, and visual spotting is good enough to spot a surface warship. I feel using the Improved RF Detectors mod is cheating out the fun of knowing where the surface warships are at.

Thus I feel to make them so they will not pick up any surface warships using radar; or maybe if I can, only just the 'real big warships' (depends upon how the game considers the Height of the radar source of the enemy). Unless really close as would be in heavy fog -but active radar can do that with no penalty since no RF detectors are installed on warships.

Conclusion:

1) So if it possible, limit the RF Detectors to pick up mostly airplanes, and a lesser chance to pick up a Warship if really close, or large?

2) Plus nerf the detection chance per time sweep period down some 30% to 50% for the modded long range RF Detectors to simulate randomness. I agree. Default game is 95% in 15 seconds!

This will make using the Hydrophones, a good Visual watch crew, and your own Active radar still worth while to have.


Jungman, to add my input to the points you've made above, I've been testing the updated sensors and the RWR is working great, however it would be a good idea to limit them to receiving only aircraft. When I gave you the ranges of the RWR systems earlier, I should have probably mentioned that this was from contacts at 1000 metres altitude. So its not unreasonable to limit RWR to aircraft only, in practice from my understanding of the electronics these systems could almost never pick up ship-borne radar. THe RWR on U Boats was intended to defend against air attacks, in this regard they were truly a lifesaver at night, I personally have never read of an instance in which RWR picked up ship borne radar. The sweep period for Metox and Borkum can reasonably be less, as I mentioned they were hand swept by the watch crew, but the others (NAXOS onwards) are pretty realistic, as are the ranges you've set.

[thecaptain]

Does the sensor pack file fix the destroyed radar message you get when acquiring the FuMo 391?

[Jungman]

FuMO391 is not fixed yet...getting to it soon...

The lines you see while on the surface of the water is the radar detector picking up the active radar from airplanes and warship. Black is airplane, red is warship radar.

I think for gameplay reasons, if it is possible - I try it tonight, to limit the MinHeight of radar detection to mostly picking up airplanes...may pick up medium large warships if they are very close.

Do not worry about not seeing warships, You can use your active radar all the time and see them through heavy fog. The manual claims using your radar will tip off warships, but the warships are not installed with any radar detectors (they are there but were set to NULL as if not finished -Ubisoft shoved this game out too early).

Maybe radar detectors can be added in to warships. Easy enough just a text edit to the warships' SNS file. They may actually work then, or not. I will enable them, if I can, so that using your active radar full time will bring you trouble.

Well, at least we know a way to see the airplanes coming from far away, plus set your TC to 1x and it will drop out of high TC when a radar signal is detected.

I think my next is to tone down the radar detectors some? and limit them to airplanes only.

This will go really good if Manuel Ortega can get the visual world bigger to 20 km. That is on the Mod forum. I been posting here, I guess when I get a decent balance, I will post an official thread on the Mod forum. You guys are my beta testers. :D

[Faamecanic]

FuMO391 is not fixed yet...getting to it soon...

The lines you see while on the surface of the water is the radar detector picking up the active radar from airplanes and warship. Black is airplane, red is warship radar.

I think for gameplay reasons, if it is possible - I try it tonight, to limit the MinHeight of radar detection to mostly picking up airplanes...may pick up medium large warships if they are very close.

Do not worry about not seeing warships, You can use your active radar all the time and see them through heavy fog. The manual claims using your radar will tip off warships, but the warships are not installed with any radar detectors (they are there but were set to NULL as if not finished -Ubisoft shoved this game out too early).

Maybe radar detectors can be added in to warships. Easy enough just a text edit to the warships' SNS file. They may actually work then, or not. I will enable them, if I can, so that using your active radar full time will bring you trouble.

Well, at least we know a way to see the airplanes coming from far away, plus set your TC to 1x and it will drop out of high TC when a radar signal is detected.

I think my next is to tone down the radar detectors some? and limit them to airplanes only.

This will go really good if Manuel Ortega can get the visual world bigger to 20 km. That is on the Mod forum. I been posting here, I guess when I get a decent balance, I will post an official thread on the Mod forum. You guys are my beta testers. :D

Ahh yes...saw that last night. When you see the square or triangle with tail..that is either a VISUAL sighting or Active Radar contact (actually a active radar contact will look like it is done in Pencil lead when zoomed in, and REd/black when zoomed out of nav map).

I never ran with active radar on because I was afraid it would give away my position.

Now...back to Radar DETECTION. I would still think warships set off the detector...but only as far as there is a line of sight to the warships active radar. (10,000m??)

[Silverfox18]

:roll:
I see that this topic is still the focus of tweakers & mod freaks..... :rotfl:

How about some stories of your voyages in the XXI? Or is that too much to ask? :rotfl:
:sunny:

[Treeburst155]

Herr Jungman,

This is some good work here. I REALLY hope it gets incorporated into RUb 1.43. Thanks!

Treeburst155 out.

[v!por]

Jungman:

I installed the snorkel fix and the radar warning fix....

New sortie
VIIC 1/42 with snorkel
Observation and attack scopes up less than 1 meter max above surface
at 11 meters depth
seas at 7 meter (wind) This results in occasionally top of cun tower at surface
evening
4 to 5 knots recharging

I am picking up black radar lines (ac?)
First time ever i have warning of B24 coming in
able to dive well before dc start... but... even though only the snorkel, obs and attack above ac still get apparent fix and dc around me within sight of sub (cam on)

Thought this feed back would help .. and thanks for mods... \

[Jungman]

Oh, all feedback helps. Do you mean you start date is Jan 1942 or using a VIIC /42 Uboat?

"seas at 7 meter (wind) This results in occasionally top of cun tower at surface "

Heavier seas will expose your sub to the airplane and attract them. Can you go lower some more to 12 meter? And is your snorkel just barely above the water to work?

"4 to 5 knots recharging"

Be careful how fast you move when snorkelling diesel engines! The game thinks you are moving the equal of AHEAD FULL speed using electric motor. Even your Scopes will be seen easily. 7.2 to 8 knots is subs normal underwater maximum.

If an airplane is within close under 2 to 3 Km, do not go any faster than 3 knots or else they will see you. The diesel engines can move much faster underwater, in reality your snorkel would break off above 3 knots. It is a game quirk.

Just go very slow until planes are gone...make sure snorkel is just barely above the water to work. Heavy waves will expose your sub, snorkel needs to be longer IMHO There is a Height 5m for snorkel length in sub.dat file that could be altered to allow for better snorkelling make it longer so your sub stays underwater in heavy waves.

Wind above 8 m/s will really be a problem. The XXI is set for 10m and can hide better than VIIC. I ask, how well did they spot you? I did not nerf it to be completely cloaked. Did an airplane spot you from 8km and make a bee line to you? Or did it just happen to be within 2km (bad luck)?

It maybe you Uboat getting exposed in heavy waves and moving too fast. Did they bomb you spot on close or miss completely? Thanks for the info.

EDIT: I should say if you see airplanes coming, lower the snorkel, they will see it if they get within about 2 km of you. It is not cloaked. It should make the surprise attacks less often, but there is alot of air patrols. How far can you get before being harrased by airplanes? Is it less often?

[Jungman]

v!por

am picking up black radar lines (ac?)
First time ever i have warning of B24 coming in
able to dive well before dc start... but... even though only the snorkel, obs and attack above ac still get apparent fix and dc around me within sight of sub (cam

I think you were cruising on the surface of the ocean, then you receive the radar signals warning from the RF detector. Yes they alreay got a fix on you because you are on the surface of the water. The airplane B24 have the best radars quite early and can see your Uboat on the surface water from up to 17 km away depending on the year. I guess Jan 1942 B24 Liberator has ASVMark I at 8km range. Or Mark III at 12 km in Jan 1943.

They will fly to your last known position where you dived. They move quite fast. They may see your snorkel if they get within about 2 km especially if uboat is moving at above 3 knots (I did not cloak them for gameplay reason). You must lower the snorkel if they have seen it. Better yet lower it anyway to hide.

They do not have alot of time over you to target visually. If you survived with snorkel up, then they really did not spot you (it is chance)...they are bombing the last known position where you dived to 11 meters deep from picking you up on radar.

You see them, they see you on the surface too.

[Average Joe]

Syxx: to set snort depth is easy. Just text edit with notepar/wordpad the file NSS_Uboat21.cfg inside the folder Data/Submarine/NSS_Uboat21. look for this entry...

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=15;meters
SnorkelDepth=14;meters ;Change this to 16m.
ersCrashDepth=70;meters
MaxDepth=300;meters
SurfaceDepth=8;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=50;meters
StormConditions=13,0.5;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]


Hi Jungman,

My campaign is currently in May/1944, using a VII-C/42 sub. Staying surfaced near busy areas is definately getting harder to do! :huh:

Above you mention a snorkel-depth mod for the XXI sub (change from 14, to 16m) for less detection.

From the sub config-files for VII-B, and VII-C-VII-C/41-/42:

VII-B: (plus all IX-series subs too)
PeriscopeDepth=12;meters
SnorkelDepth=10;meters

VII-C /41 /42:
PeriscopeDepth=12;meters
SnorkelDepth=11;meters

With similar weather-conditions you mentioned for the XXI sub (fairly calm), do you know what snorkel-heights might work better, with the the VII-series subs?

p.s. I'm guessing a 1-meter increase might help.

[Jungman]

The VII series subs have a fairly short Snorkel compared to the conning tower. You can hardly get the snorkel set just right without the conning tower being exposed in heavy sea waves.

The 'subname'.sim file contains the Snorkel height at 5 meters. You could change it to be longer to maybe 7 meters and see if it works in game, not tested though. It would let you go deeper.

Many times I sit at 12m same as periscope if calm enough waters. But in moderate 9 m/s waves it need to go up to 11 depth to make snorkel work.

That stock 10m will get you killed. The conning tower is exposed and the airplanes can see it as if on the surface.

So yes you could lower 1 meter, depends upon sea state. Eventually you will get a 'feel' for the correct depth.

Also, the 1 meter visual MinHeight hack does not make you invisible within 4 km of target, really bad at about 2 km. THis only makes snorkel not so huge at over 4km distance attracting airplanes like crazy. The CFG file shows that anything over half range gets double detect time. I am taking advatage of that fact to help make the snork hide at distance (It is under 2 meters high).

[Syxx_Killer]

I quickly tested the subs and their snorkels. I wanted to see how deep I could go and still be able to breath. I used the Scapa Flow single mission. The wind in that mission is 4m/s. Here are my results:

Type VIIB/C – 12m
Type IXB/C – 14m
Type IXD2 – 15m
Type XXI – 16.5

I then edited the snorkel depth in the appropriate cfg file in each submarine's folder.

Program Files/Ubisoft/SilentHunterIII/data/Submarine

Then choose the right folder for the sub and edit the cfg.

[Jungman]

Those are good values. When the wind and waves get up around past 8 to 9 m/s, I must go up higher by 1 meter to keep my snort dry. :cool:

But the higher you go, the waves will give exposure of your sub to airplanes/ships. Try snorting in a 15 m/s gale...

You can but you will be at 10m and the airplanes and DD will see you between the waves. It was like that in real life anyway.

Also remember moving faster than 6 knots snorting will get you caught. While underwater the max speed of most Uboats is 8 knots. So the AI hydrophones hear you from 9 km away as if you are moving at FULL speed! In real life the snort mast would break off anyway.

Go slow the speed under 6 knots; 3 knots if enemy is close. Keep your snorkel just barely above waves. Hope for good weather and pray alot.

[Average Joe]

The VII series subs have a fairly short Snorkel compared to the conning tower. You can hardly get the snorkel set just right without the conning tower being exposed in heavy sea waves.

The 'subname'.sim file contains the Snorkel height at 5 meters. You could change it to be longer to maybe 7 meters and see if it works in game, not tested though. It would let you go deeper.<<

Thanks Jungman, for more tips with snorkel-depths.:up:

I will stick with testing the sub .cfg files, it's quite easy to do.

Btw is your RF_Detect mod still the same, or perhaps a new change since last release (July 25?).

[Average Joe]

I quickly tested the subs and their snorkels. I wanted to see how deep I could go and still be able to breath. I used the Scapa Flow single mission. The wind in that mission is 4m/s. Here are my results:

Type VIIB/C – 12m
Type IXB/C – 14m
Type IXD2 – 15m
Type XXI – 16.5

I then edited the snorkel depth in the appropriate cfg file in each submarine's folder.

Program Files/Ubisoft/SilentHunterIII/data/Submarine

Then choose the right folder for the sub and edit the cfg.

Syxx_Killer thanks a bunch for posting test-results with edited snorkel-values! I would never have guessed to change the bigger subs that greatly. I'll just plug-in your numbers and go from there :)

I increased 1-meter for the VII-C/42. As Jungman says too, that seems to work well in calmer waters. Detection is just a bit slower I think, but it helps.

It'd be great to see a working FuMO-391 radar with XXI and VII-C/42 (or maybe -any- sub-snorkel if edited in). Maybe someday... :88)

[GT182]

Jungman, no offense mate, but one request. Could you make the Sensor mod JSGME compatable? It's not that most of us are lazy, it's just so much easier installing mods with it. Plus it's easier to revert to SHIII with no mods.

[Syxx_Killer]

I'll just plug-in your numbers and go from there

Since it has been a while since you plugged in those numbers, how have they been working for you? I haven't used a snorkel sub much (busy with my IID campaign :|\ ), but when I did, it seems to have worked ok.