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View Full Version : Figuring out the targets course without God's eye view?


Spectre600
09-14-05, 01:27 PM
Calculating the course of a ship is easy if you are within visual range.. All you need are 2 locations at seperate times.

It has been mentioned before in this thread...

The method I use is to take one range/bearing reading, and wait 3 minutes 15 seconds and take another.. then just draw a line through your two points and that is the course. The advantage of waiting 3 minutes 15 seconds is you can calculate the course AND the speed of the target, instead of doing it in 2 operations.

Sometimes you cannot wait 3 minutes 15 seconds.. like in bad weather. I still have not perfected a method for these circumstances, but if you just take 2 range/bearing readings, then use the 'notepad' to get your speed (be carefull not to re-enter the AoB into your tdc!), this works pretty well for those hurried shots.

Now, the REAL question, is how to determine a rough course with just hydrophone contacts (no sonar). This is the toughest thing, but a good method would make extreme weather situations easier to deal with.

The one method I have had limited sucsess with is like this:

When you get a hydrophone contact, plot a line on that compass bearing of arbitrary lenght (I do 20 km, you cant really hear farther) and start the stopwatch.

Wait 3 min 15 seconds.

Plot a second line.

Now you have a 'v' on your map.

This is the tricky part, you have to assume the ships speed.. there are several ways to do this, all with certain error...
There are ways to figure out the speed of a target by the screw sounds, but I dont know how. The other is to ask your kind hydrophone op.. He will tell you 'slow, medium, fast, very fast'.

Slow is on average about 7 knots. Fast can be 15-20. Very fast is almost always 25.

Say for example you estimate the ship to be going about 10 knots. Plot a line in your 'v' that is 1 km long, and that fits into the 'v'. This is a very approximate range!

The variables that can mess this up is if the ship is moving towards or away from you, then it will seem like the ship is going slower than it really is. But your hydrophone operator will probably tell you if that is the case.

Repeat the whole process at another point and you can make a very rough course approximation.

I hope this all makes sense!

If anyone else has any methods for approximating courses with just hydrophone contacts, please let me know!

EDIT:
By the way, how can you get an accurate AOB from one visual observation? You would need alot of skill to get good, accurate readings.

I wonder if there is a way to take bearing readings from the bow and stern, and from that (and range readings) calculate the AoB from a known ship length.. Interesting...

Twelvefield
09-14-05, 02:04 PM
This is the link that helped me beat the learning curve for SHIII:

http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/

Wazzoo's tutorials answer all questions, and give you multiple ways of achieving target solutions -- an absolute must-read for any cyber-kaleun.

mr darcy
09-14-05, 03:08 PM
To add to the explanations above I have screenshot of one of my plotted firing solutions. This particulair plotting is a perfect 90 degree firing solution.

Hope it's usefull, there are many ways you can do this, I like 90 degree firing solutions but you can start firing imidiatly when in range and have the ships coarse + AOB. (Using Etchasketch's conversion wheel: http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=30852&sid=ae9c220c011b73aa308ed627ecd08ff5 )

How on earth did you get visual fixes on a contact that far away? 38km? huh??

No, it's 3.800m actually. ;)

Assuming that your not joking. The scale going from 0 to 25 KM sorta says defferently.

:know:

the_rydster
09-15-05, 05:25 AM
It can be very difficult to track targets at the extremity of visual range because of the sensitivity of the mast height method. If the sea is moving or it is dark it is very hard to get accurate results.

I find you normally have to get to within at least 4 km to get good results.

I sometimes used this method using the hydrophone: Advanced hydrophone (http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=42435). This works very well for single merchants but in a convoy is difficult because there are so many ships generating a noise each. It is possible to estimate a convoy speed, often they are around 8 knots. When tracking a convoy I often take several hydrophone reading several km apart, sometime just plotting the approx ranges based on the noise level and interpolating a rough course. In the big wide ocean you have plenty of time to get closer and 'stalk', then get a super accurate course and speed and intercept at your time and choosing.[/url]

Alyebard
09-15-05, 07:05 AM
Or try this

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copiadeescanear00015mz.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copiadeescanear00015mz.jpg

a maneouvering board.

Thks US Navy :rock:[/img]

urseus
09-15-05, 06:17 PM
Why do you guys do all that ****?


If i see a ship on my map, i just head for it.

When i see it, i get a shot ready. If its anything other than 90 degrees, i use magnetic.

Simple. Why would you do all that crazy plotting?

Twelvefield
09-16-05, 03:34 PM
Agreed, until the map gets turned off. Then you have to hear the ships long before you can see them. And that's if the weather is good -- if it's bad, you might not even see the ship until you've completed all of your plots and brought yourself into firing position.

Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense
09-17-05, 07:51 AM
Good Thread... thx Captains...

putting yourself aboard the sub, in all respects, is the best and most satisfying experience... i've tried the external cam, god's eye view map, and all that stuff...

... just doesn't do it for me.

--Mike