SH5 TWOS please help me fix this !!!

[immondo]

After many years of playing with twos, i seek answers to few main questions:
As we know, twos megamod is the most complete and advanced thing ever made, still i have always encountered MAJOR PROBLEMS. First of all saving.
With twos you can not save except you are alone in open sea. That is something i CAN NOT live with.. How am i supposed to carry on major complex operations without saving??? Am i the only one around here not feeling good at all with it? Have anyone ever tried to fix this? Is that even possible?
There are also others problem that i will discuss in future, after someone would hopefully explain me about this first.
Please im struggling with it since 10 years..

[Rosco74]

Hello. I never had the feeling it is something so massively annoying.
First it is not completly true, you can save even if there is "something" around you.. let me give you some exemples.
I will give you some exemples of when I actually save the game myself.

First when I leave my homebase for a patrol. Yes you must travel away from the coast for about 50 miles. That's around half an hour of gameplay as usually I never esceed x8 TC.
During a patrol, every 2 hours I dive to around 25 meters to check my hydrophone. If I have a contact, usually it is long range, so I save.

I follow a convoy at max visual range, actually almost out of visual range, as my crew report no visual contact but I can see some reflection on the sea surface in a light fog. I can save.

That's some exemples, but usually if you have no other ship in sight, you can save...

[Aktungbby]

immondo!:Kaleun_Salute:...the infamous :subsim:-7-year itch strikes again! Good to see U resurfaced!:up: Are you on WIN 10 or 11?

[immondo]

immondo!:Kaleun_Salute:...the infamous :subsim:-7-year itch strikes again! Good to see U resurfaced!:up: Are you on WIN 10 or 11?

now im using win 10 but i spent the most of the time playing it with win 7 without any problem of instability.. We are talking about a rule of the game twos.. as explained since the first versions of the project.. all this story of "clean saves" is ruining the sim experience..

[immondo]

Hello. I never had the feeling it is something so massively annoying.
First it is not completly true, you can save even if there is "something" around you.. let me give you some exemples.
I will give you some exemples of when I actually save the game myself.

First when I leave my homebase for a patrol. Yes you must travel away from the coast for about 50 miles. That's around half an hour of gameplay as usually I never esceed x8 TC.
During a patrol, every 2 hours I dive to around 25 meters to check my hydrophone. If I have a contact, usually it is long range, so I save.

I follow a convoy at max visual range, actually almost out of visual range, as my crew report no visual contact but I can see some reflection on the sea surface in a light fog. I can save.

That's some exemples, but usually if you have no other ship in sight, you can save...

Of course i understand your point but you are missing mine:
It is obvious that a complete operation of sinking convoys is made of various stages.. intercepting, positioning, data reconing, attack, and survival.... all this procedure could take several hours of deep simulation... if u can not save during all this process until its long finished.. any problem occurring during its developement will destroy the whole operation and u have lost hours and hours of hard work.... what if i could save while being chased by destroyers after a succesful attack? maybe i get sink but i dont have to restart from two days prior? dont you think it would be more normal?

[Bilge_Rat]

As I recall, this is not a TWOS issue, but a SH3-4-5 issue. The SH code is fairly old and does not seem to save all the data. If you saved close to land or ships, it “might” cause immediate game issues and/or corrupt your campaign long term which is why players came up with those tips.

As far as I know, no one managed to fix this problem, although as I recall it was worse in SH3 than in SH4-5. You can save anytime and see what happens, just make sure to keep old saves so you can revert back.

[Rosco74]

I got your point. But now that you talk about convoy chasing, I made a post just a few days ago about something else, visibility and escort reactivity.
I made severals tests for tat, and each time I had the opportunity to save.

First save when I first hear the convoy on hydrophone after positioning on an intercept course. They are probably 15 km away from me.
Then it takes me around 1 hour to have them in sight at deck awash, and to confirm the data received from BDU, I mean course and speed.

Second save after deviating from the convoy course by 30 degrees. I am probably 6 km from the convoy on a parallel course. I speed up to position myself ahead of the convoy.

Third save when I am ahead of the convoy by 5 km maybe, out of visual range. I go to periscope depth and stop my engine.

Longest part, I proceed for the attack. Whatever happen the escort is after me. Escape phase is between 15 and 45 minutes real time, depends if those destroyers manage to get me on asdic...
As soon as they leave the area at fast speed to rejoin the convoy. I can resume my chase out of visual range. This is my 4th save.

Usually I can save every 90 minutes at least. But now I will give you the MAJOR weak point of the system, and it not about an engagement.

MAJOR PROBLEM : To complete your patrol objective, for exemple in Happy Time, you need to patrol a grid for 48 hours... and this is the issue, as you CANNOT load a save mid patrol. You have to actually play for 48 hours of ingame time to complete the objective...
You can save the game of course but if you game crash mid patrol, you can load your save but the timer will be reset and you need to patrol 48 hours again...
I skip this issue byt stopping the sub and TC to x128 for 48 hours untill the objective is validated... THIS is my main issue

[immondo]

As I recall, this is not a TWOS issue, but a SH3-4-5 issue. The SH code is fairly old and does not seem to save all the data. If you saved close to land or ships, it “might” cause immediate game issues and/or corrupt your campaign long term which is why players came up with those tips.

As far as I know, no one managed to fix this problem, although as I recall it was worse in SH3 than in SH4-5. You can save anytime and see what happens, just make sure to keep old saves so you can revert back.

thankyou for the infos.. you confirmed my worries

[immondo]

I got your point. But now that you talk about convoy chasing, I made a post just a few days ago about something else, visibility and escort reactivity.
I made severals tests for tat, and each time I had the opportunity to save.

First save when I first hear the convoy on hydrophone after positioning on an intercept course. They are probably 15 km away from me.
Then it takes me around 1 hour to have them in sight at deck awash, and to confirm the data received from BDU, I mean course and speed.

Second save after deviating from the convoy course by 30 degrees. I am probably 6 km from the convoy on a parallel course. I speed up to position myself ahead of the convoy.

Third save when I am ahead of the convoy by 5 km maybe, out of visual range. I go to periscope depth and stop my engine.

Longest part, I proceed for the attack. Whatever happen the escort is after me. Escape phase is between 15 and 45 minutes real time, depends if those destroyers manage to get me on asdic...
As soon as they leave the area at fast speed to rejoin the convoy. I can resume my chase out of visual range. This is my 4th save.

Usually I can save every 90 minutes at least. But now I will give you the MAJOR weak point of the system, and it not about an engagement.

MAJOR PROBLEM : To complete your patrol objective, for exemple in Happy Time, you need to patrol a grid for 48 hours... and this is the issue, as you CANNOT load a save mid patrol. You have to actually play for 48 hours of ingame time to complete the objective...
You can save the game of course but if you game crash mid patrol, you can load your save but the timer will be reset and you need to patrol 48 hours again...
I skip this issue byt stopping the sub and TC to x128 for 48 hours untill the objective is validated... THIS is my main issue

Yes indeed this is your main problem, because this 48h gap is the result of the beautiful work of the modders, as they have managed to rework all the mission objectives system.. so no more tonnage bar, no more real objectives,, u can do pretty much what ever you want.. stay there for 48h or eveno not doing that at all... at the end nothing really change.. and the author of TWOS said that i so much more realistic.. to me that is a killing of the game purpose and a non sense way of thinking... also i time compression is made to avoid these bull**** issues.. so i always used 1024 to avoid the terrible situation u described.. Moreover i apprechated the tests you have made: as you can see those saves you made are not causing issues for the gameplay stability, but who knows in long therms?? also.. they are not even very effective.. I was doing just like you with convoy chasing and the problem was AFTER the attack, since always i was getting stuck surrounded by evil destroyers.. no way to survive.. a single mistake and it was over.. and i had to restart from BEFORE the attack... that was the most annoying thing for me ever...

[Rosco74]

We both agree on those 48 hours, probably another "game engine" issue that cannot be modified. The save system is annoying, I must admit. On the other hand, it is also an easy mode to load a savegame if you fail your attack.

After 2 or 3 years playing TwoS, I think I see this system like an Ironman mode you encounter on new games. 90% of my saves are never used or reloaded.
I did it for the test I have made a few days ago on that convoy attack but usually I only save the game when I want to close the game and I wait to be alone. To be sure I try to TC x128. If it works then I am alone, because if any ship is around you cannot go past x64.

On your last comment about evil destoyers following an attack. If you still play during the first part of the war, I mean untill 1941 summer, it is usually easy to avoid them. Following your attack, just dive past 110 meters, below that thermocline, at max speed. Once below 100 meters you can already order silent running and make a turn. They will probably never find you except maybe by asdic if they are right on top of you wich is very rare. If they drop grenades on you, they will never hit you as the Mark4 never go below 90 meters.
If they do not get you on asdic during 15 or 20 minutes they will leave the area. During that time you can TC up to x16 even if they are short range.

Thanks for your feedback, and wish you a good hunting :-)