View Full Version : Got Tremors-Could be Parkinson
Since around 1˝ years back I started to shake on my right hand, this grew and then it was the entire arm. As this wasn't enough later my left hand and arm start to shake. Some days ago I made an appointment with my doctor who both gave me medicin* and a referral to a specialist in neurology. I hope it's age-related and not Parkinson or some other disease.
This shaking prevent me from modelling and play games
* Got some kind of Betta(β) blocking medicin. Have been taking it for 2˝ days now and still no ease in my shaking.
Markus
Skybird
01-13-25, 02:49 PM
Dont hit the panic button over Parkinson already now, that would be too early. Betablocker - I took them - are to reduce the pace of the heart rate, they lower the HR. And there is a growing suspicion that taking them may be associated with a raising in the risk to develope Parkinson, in a causal, triggerign meaning. Data on this link is not yet fully established, but if your doc so far has the suspicion you may develope Parkinson, he maybe would not have put you on Betablocker.
Just a thought.
You will need to wait for more diagnostics taking place. Good luck!
You're right I shouldn't paint the devil on the wall not yet-Next week I have an appointment with this specialist. Guess there has to be more than one diagnostic before they can say what it is.
This specialist work in the Brain and Nerve damage area
Markus
Skybird
01-13-25, 03:09 PM
I was posting the above by memory, and had to check back something else on my mind before poosting it:
First, giving betablocker in case of Parkinson indeed is apparently seen as a bit unusual - but possible.
Second, and that was my thought I needed to check back on first, it could be a hint for a so-called "essential tremor": this is a common neurological disorder typically characterized by a bilateral tremor of the hands, often spreading symmetrically across both sides of the body. The tremor often occurs during movement (postural or kinetic tremor). In early stages, the tremor may start on only one side, and symptoms may spread to the other side over time. I cant tell you whether that is a better or worse scenario compared to Parkinson.
They will probably run an MRT and a so-called dopamin transportation scan to check levels and activity of your neurotransmitter. Tell them for sure that you are being given betablockers.
Such neurological "hardware" problems are topics that we heard only little about at university, in Neuropsychology and Neurophysiology, since it is not so much a psychological but a medical topic, also it does not touch my "hobby" of micro- and macro nutrients, supplementaton and diet . Sorry I cant help more.
Skybird
01-13-25, 03:39 PM
Since it seems to be a neurological problem, you can become active in a supportive role via your diet already. Good are nutrients, which support the formation and maintenance of the myelin layer on the neurons, and which generally protect and strengthen nerve tissue.
Examples include
vitamin B3,
B12 (which is essential and in which many older people are massively deficient);
then especially coenzyme Q10 as reduced ubiquinol;
NAC (N-acetyle cysteine, a strong anti-oxidant with a known neuroprotective effect);
vitamin E in the form of a so-called DTM oil, in which almost exclusively gamma and delta tocotrienols and almost no alpha tocopherol are used, the other five vitamin E isomers are present, you want them all, but as little as possible alpha tocopherol;
then generally a sufficient supply of protein (of animal origin!) to build amino acids from;
then there is creatine (in meat);
and vitamin C;
and finally, the brain consists for the most part of only two building blocks: Cholesterol, and omega-3 fatty acids. The latter can be supplemented directly, the former can be increased and at the same time care can be taken to ensure that in addition to the increased HDL, LDL is also formed, not the dangerous small-particle LDL, but the harmless large-particle and unoxidized LDL, by eliminating vegetable oils and fats and replacing them with animal fats.
Nutritional measures of this kind can have a supportive character, but in most cases they probably cannot replace medical supervision. There is no harm in familiarizing yourself with these topics if you are nervous and want to become active. Changing your diet accordingly can't hurt. There are populations where such neurodegenerative diseases are not known at all. They all have in common that they do not eat according to Western food rules. I am convinced that these health problems are ultimately caused by modern malnutrition, and I am not the only one. We are stuffed up in full, yes, but we suffer from severe lack of nutrients.
Consider intermittend fasting, and either ketogenic or carnivore diet. Inflammations love sugar, sugar can cause inflammation all by itself: throw the carbohydrates out, therefore. Radically.
P.S., And yes, vitamin D again is on the party, too. Low levels make it easier for certain heavy metals and toxines associated with tremor to stay in the blood.
Thank you for your advice I'll try my best to follow them-I presume this specialist will demand a blood test to see if I lack some of the vitamin and/or minerals you mention in your last comment.
Markus
Skybird
01-13-25, 04:00 PM
Eh - keep in mind that most - not all - doctors and me would bang heads over what we consider as sufficient vitamin and mineral supply. ;) Many doctors dose these at therapeutically inefficient dosages, if they even care at all. Why do you think I have fired several of my docs and my parents docs over the last year? :D
If he advises you on the ground of some diet assocation or governmental boards, i would take any advice on all this food-related things with a truckload of salt, because then Big Food and Big Pharma have most likely both feet in the door. Run.
Skybird
01-13-25, 04:06 PM
I dont want to promise miracles and wonders. I give these video link "as is".
And also, in order to prevent you loosing courage and faith. ;)
Here are my three special "buddies": Dr. Baker, Dr Berry, and Dr. Chaffee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF5_mMJi8bg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FsuO_dOR4M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty5l5ZF10qY
My last blood test which was my annual test, showed a high dosis of long term sugar and cholesterol in my blood. My new doctor want a second test to follow up on it.
About this carnivore diet-This diet does not fit all-If you have a weak heart or some heart disease like my elder sister-She was told to stay away from KETO and Carnivore diets.
I have a strong heart, so for me such diets would be welcomed
Seen the first of your three video you posted
Markus
Skybird
01-13-25, 05:39 PM
Cholesterol in blood tests make - imo and that of the three doctors I linked to above - litte if not even no sense if the lab measures just "cholesterol". That tells you nothing. You need to test for HDl, LDL type A, LDL type B, and OxLDL, also triglycerides. And then put these into relation to each other and to your food habits.
When you eat lot of fat or carnivore with that natural content of fat, you EXPECT your LDL goes up, because thats the job of it, LDL and HDL are not cholesterol, they are transport proteins for cholesterol, because cholesterol is an oily or fatty substance in a watery milieu that blood is, and fat in water does not go well. So the fatty cholesterol gets dressed into a raincoat, so to speak, to safely travel through the "wet" blood vessels, or HDL and LDL work like busses on one line, the one drives from liver to organ, the other drives from organ back to liver. The more fat you eat, the more high and low density lipoproteins (HDL, LDL) are needed. As long as your HDL is not so low, but your triglycerides are low, personally I do not care for high LDL. Also, the safe range here is defined on the basis of values measured in Western - means: sick and ill! - populations. You define your level of healthy or unhealthy H/LDL by saying that your values are close to that of sick people which you imply to be "healthy". Does this make sense? No, it does not, like so much in Western medicine.
You better look at the nature of the fats you eat that drive your cholesterol levels. If you eat seed oils, or olive and coconut oil or MCT oils, or fatty fish and meat and butter, and all three drive your values up, it nevertheless means that the same value describes three different health levels in these groups. That animal saturated fats are bad, is a lie: to make btter sales numbers when wantign to sell cheapm dnsiutry oil from plant seeds, or margerine. These are industrial, toxic oil, no foods, they originally were formed to serve as lamp oil,m soap, and grease for machinery!
The health thread I run has plenty of posts and links to videos on this topic.
-------------
On your sister's finding that her doc thinks meat causes heart problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E9zD-DtUOA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWVLCrMfvCQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlYTnYnVN0c
Skybird wrote: "On your sister's finding that her doc thinks meat causes heart problems."
Carnivore or KETO diet is not a problem if you have a good heart, normal heart condition.
This carnivore and KETO diet isn't something new to me-My cousin have tried them both to lose weight-Without any success.
My elder sister who also is fighting some overweight asked her Heart doctor about these diets and the doctor said-She should stay away from them since diet affect the heart.
She has a special heart failure.
I made a search for this Carnivore diet and found this article
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/critical-thinking-student-contributors-health-and-nutrition/taking-bite-out-carnivore-diet
and then I found this one
https://www.newsweek.com/heart-surgeon-carnivore-diet-dont-fear-meat-1973701
I also made a search for KETO diet where I found this article
https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/keto-diet-is-not-healthy-and-may-harm-the-heart
Back to the discussion on my shaking.
I recall what the doctor also said around E.T Essential Tremors after I told him how it started and spreading to the entire upper body now.
Markus
Skybird
01-13-25, 07:26 PM
Markus,
I do not want to repeat all details from the health thread, also, i do not want to press you or convert you or give the impression I am a doctor.
But I think you are too easily believing "them" and then judge things by their standards. Thus I think you really need to get a longterm overview of the history how all these political deformations about diet and medicine took place, or better: were deliberately implemented. Two basic readings that are as profound as they are accessible.
You want to neutrally compare both sides. But the rulebook - is rigged. You dont realise it.
I checked the links, the Harvard study is for the bin (no surprise if one knows how the Meidcla School Harvard has politically changed over recent years and has been more or less completely compromised by financial donation and lobbyists), so is the first text, filled with the typical premises of the mainstream establishment and thus corrupting all assessments of what is not the mainstream. The newsweek article is, well, Newsweek. So lala. - Sorry, I am not impressed.
In the videos I linked to in the health thread, the authors often give links to the studies and materials they base on. Here, I give these three book tips instead.
Most profound, a top recommendation:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Big-Fat-Surprise-butter-healthy/dp/192522810X?crid=14BD50P3NVOHG&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.APVAg6Na2tD7pccjOGBkITfvQg3vsEU9r dBfqXzXzucG3ScjoIR7G2OPFMDIq3n4WEjcY8rvWZAHiQq566Q JLIYX4GkPUjECg4dgJzhtVjVW4Kp6akXVraIwCjSMar713FyEq nKCPxAK3-Ztz-EeDVlixKVJZ_VMdkEHWs3nTTsU-0RqSJqRHxFlPBfpw8n5fvLN4TTizdE9frJrhUtm5u4sh8td-zN6TFVH1Qr9fu-nab3WHutYLKIees2C1VtfAXorpqP1pHibz2ITcoQxjMIbV7dnq xNC0FNAcxTlGfyyE_RjeZAKgw31kUqJqXVhmSyX65IopQczHCP aMN4_gls3b6WvcrAdlTfUAMySXscEUE7yjKA2hyf6FgjZUk7yV MDdLHnzGfKxS3qo7yGCWnPmBIEogycXtGDB8fs6BLpWySFQX3Q iQRLxNiBVRzOk.085SjzGPN5aqI6sSLRH30KBfAGxdL5fpp9Hk E7BqROg&dib_tag=se&keywords=big+fat+surprise&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1736813012&sprefix=big+fgat+surporise%2Caps%2C78&sr=8-1
Focussing on the criminal structure of the industry. also available in German:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deadly-Medicines-Organised-Crime-Healthcare/dp/1846198844?crid=14GQ813TFLUNP&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.OuYDBZW_aNZFUS3as5l07ZfdqM3OV5SKk fxYrWK5mtJdoAaysz-PYkRiVWCz55tyHmfVuw2w18ytFXt4zcw0hA.DtiCaYxa5bZbYi ntR-nrQNMksY0-VYgbGkT8bUtFCVo&dib_tag=se&keywords=gotzsche&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1736813322&sprefix=gotzsche%2Caps%2C94&sr=8-1
Why we should eat meat. A very unusual, but profound book, now also in English. The original is German. The author is philosopher. But this is no philosophy book, rest assured.
https://www.amazon.de/Homo-Carnivorus-Why-Should-Meat/dp/B0DH89J7NV?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3 %91&crid=30RVE7ZTEIA3U&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.qXepEEyi3Mnp2jBMQ_V25lviKIR5W4xJ5 Pra9KE1v9eXYug_7Kf_WjJ7TECn8SQG95gsvSOunbb6edhgOcr utniIn7mA4gjw6wpCwM9YYYISMOfH-_4H6fyRFj0KuGP58evRRKxM0O-wNP6OHiBm9VI9EBWOZqQHztdCNPZCyOa2n2Ci9mRlR-ZZB7HNwHlWsMA71v2vnGR_A4dNDU7CJbnv_rDSgTrhb6CmOhQ0 Xvw.oLJD5n3htNqUjuyiQiwdhTogRAQ6mgrjVjZhIa8GIbo&dib_tag=se&keywords=homo+carnivorus&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1736813491&sprefix=homo+carnivorus%2Caps%2C67&sr=8-2#customerReviews
Especially the first book by Teichholz gives a good overview on how the industry corrupted food policies over the past 100 years, and how people get exploited and abused and betrayed for reasons of egoism, greed, crime, greed, and personal megalomania. The author worked for almost ten years on that book. A very good overview and introduction to the problems.
For your own topic, I have now fired all my black powder. I wish you good luck. And encoruage you again to start canrikvore and see where you end up with it. What do you have to lose with your conditions? Nothing. Either you have no change, or a change for the better. If (and I mean: IF) your issues are caused by deficitary diet habits, this is the most logical way to attack them, and then your chances are very good. No matter your decision, the consequences, good or bad, will be yours as well, like your decision made. Thus, for the time being until nothing new in info comes in, I am out. ;) :salute:
Sorry to hear this, Markus.
I saw a video a few years ago showing a guy with Parkinson's before and after using medical marijuana. The difference was incredible. His hands were very steady afterward. I don't know if it really works for most people, though, or if it would work for you. Or even if it is an option where you live.
I've had small tremors for as long as I can remember. They're usually not a problem, and no one notices them unless I have to hold my hand out for more than a couple of seconds. Sometimes they're worse than others. I don't think marijuana helps mine much, because I'm high right now and I still can't hold my left hand completely still.
Anyway, I'm sure you will overcome this with the help of your doctors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNT8Zo_sfwo
Sorry to hear about the shaking Markus, that would drive me nuts!!
Hopefully it's not Parkinson! :oops::hmmm:
All the best mate, :salute:
Reece.
Btw, I do get twitches/muscle spasms from time to time, I take 1 tablet of Ultra Muscleze P5P, goes away fast and lasts for weeks/months.
Skybird
01-14-25, 06:23 AM
Btw, I do get twitches/muscle spasms from time to time, I take 1 tablet of Ultra Muscleze P5P, goes away fast and lasts for weeks/months.
I had to look that up, its a supplement (with prescription) containing Magnesium and Vitamin B6.
In other words: "food", or what should be ingredient of healthy food. :03: :up:
And Marijuana and its medical usage, there are so old descriptions of it being used for many different medical purposes by ancient cultures and natural tribes, its absolutely worth a try.
I just additionally throw in the focus on the relevance of healthy myelin sheaths of neurons (vitamin B3, B6, B12), the ATP cellular energy production of mitochondria (Ubiquinol), and the fact that neurons and brains mostly are made of Cholesterol and Omega 3, so these want to be in solid, good supply. Not "lowering cholesterol"! Low LDL is associated with higher mortality!
I read last year, by chance, about B2 and Ubiquinol and their - in case of B2 - unexplained but practically proven bettering effect on neurodegenerative symptoms of all sorts, but I must look forther, I did not find it again.
Its about food and diet, and nutrients. Our food is what makes most of us ill. The civilizational diseases that natural tribes and "primitive" natives eating naturally do not show, and once they get put on Western diet suddenly do develope.
The other possible explanations beside malnutrition, are intoxication, and infection, and genetics, and the effects of some sort of physical violence, injury.
Consuming MCT oils and coconut oil also comes to mind as attempts worth to be tried, though most of what I read and heared was in relation to Alzheimer.
Over the counter here!! :hmmm:
The manufacturer is Bioceuticals:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ONQAAOSw5mRm6nPB/s-l1600.jpg
Skybird
01-14-25, 08:14 AM
Different countries, different legal rules. :) I just read the advert from the Google search page, and do not know what country it was from. :03: But Magnesium and vitamins should not be under prescritpion rule anyway as long as they are not in murderously high doses. I mean - its food (ingredients of food), not drugs.
P.S. I see on the label of the bottle, at the bottom ,"practitioner only" - what does this imply? As a foreirgner I would interpret that as well as "given by doctors order only"...? Just asking for curiosity, its no relevant question anyway. In Germany, they must print, for purely legal reasoins, a daily dose that "is not to be overstepped". It has usually no valid medical reason, only purely legal ones, so that the thign is rated as a supplement, not a medical drug.
Jimbuna
01-14-25, 08:41 AM
Stay positive Markus and be guided by the medically qualified.....if you have sufficient courage :03:
Skybird
01-14-25, 06:05 PM
@Markus,
wanted to send you a PM , but then thought I should do it in public. I probably came over being a bit pushy, exaggerating or derailing things a little bit. I apologize, it went out of control a bit due to the links you replied with, I had such manipulative fake science way to often in the past years, I became a bit sensitive there, and bitter. My fault, I did not immediately realise that I was running hot again. Sorry, man! You probably have other worries on your mind currently, I understand that. Hope you dont take it too queer. I did not intend the way it then turned out to become.
Thank you Marc
Since you almost lost your father some years ago due to Covid-19 vaccine I do understand your resistance against big pharma and doctors.
I doubt that my doctor will do me harm-I'm convinced he and this specialist will do anything to cure me or try to cure me.
Despite having these tremors I also suffer from chronical fatigue. Tired all the time sleep most of the day in 1-2˝ hours period and then awake ˝-1 hour then sleepy again.
Markus
u crank
01-14-25, 06:51 PM
All the best Markus. Stay positive, we are here for you.
:salute:
Skybird
01-14-25, 07:09 PM
Your exhaustion is a symptom, too.
I prepare a PM. Expect it later over the daytime.
P.S. I see on the label of the bottle, at the bottom ,"practitioner only" - what does this imply?
A lot of Chemists are qualified practitioners, our local pharmacist is highly qualified and his pharmacy is a compounding pharmacy.
In Australia a compounding pharmacy is a pharmacy that is licensed and qualified to make medicine, and other health care products, at their own local facility using raw, pharmaceutical ingredients. Compounded medication is sometimes referred to as ‘personalised medicine’, as it can be custom-made to address the specific health needs of the individual patient.Also found this:
Some "practitioner-only" brands are only available through qualified health care practitioners. Others are more easily available. The idea behind the "practitioner-only" designation is simple. The majority of "practitioner-only" brands focus on producing higher quality, more potent products.
Sorry to hijack your thread Markus! :oops:
I'm sorry to hear about your situation; not knowing for sure about a potential condition can be disturbing, but remember, as long as you are not certain, a situation does not necessarily mean it may be a worst case scenario; I had noticed some memory deficiencies some years back; when I raised the issue with my primary physician, he also noted a tremor in my left hand I hadn't really noticed, he described it as an "essential tremor", a fairly common condition with several causes; he was ready to dismiss it all as just "getting old", but I felt something was not really quite right and persisted until he finally decided to order a simple cranial MRI, with no contrast; the results showed some anomalies and my primary referred me to a neurologist; like you, I was concerned that I might be facing dementia, Parkinson's, or MS; fortunately, the neurologist I was referred to is extremely thorough and he ordered a new MRI, with no contrast, and based on those results, he further ordered an MRI with contrast; the neurologist told me I did not have dementia, Parkinson's, or MS, but he did find evidence I had experienced some small strokes called "silent strokes" that were causing my symptoms...
Like you, I also have high blood pressure concerns and,based on a recent two week, 24/7 heart monitoring test, I am also now on beta blockers, so I do sympathize with your concerns, but perhaps you should take a bit of a step back in your worry until your doctor(s) complete their tests and evaluations before your start stressing over what your condition might be when there are chances it may not be your worst fears; I really was more stressed over the not knowing an answer (I have a strong aversion to unsolved problems and/or questions) than I was over whatever dire result may have been the outcome; I could deal with a bad diagnosis because, once I know what the source of a problem is, I can deal with possible solutions or mitigations; until you have the answer(s), perhaps it would do you, and your cardiac health, a bit of a breather to just destress over things unknown; once you do know, you'll be set to deal with whatever the results...
Again, I hope all goes well for you and you don't end up aggravating yourself unnecessarily; it can be hard to do, but try to stay calm and let the test(s) play out; as the saying goes, prepare for the worst, but hope for the best...
<O>
Here's an update on my tremor situation.
Saw this specialist in neurology earlier today.
She asked me a lot of questions and made a lot of test, thereafter I was sent to the lab for taking some special blood test and a EKG. Beside that she also sent me to a MR-scan of my brain.
In one of the test she toke a stick and draw it under my left foot-Which bend inwards as a result. However my right foot didn't, not that much that is.
Markus
Skybird
01-21-25, 06:12 PM
In one of the test she toke a stick and draw it under my left foot-Which bend inwards as a result. However my right foot didn't, not that much that is.Thats the test for the so-called Babinski- or Plantar reflex: LINK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantar_reflex).
EKG, you said - or was it an EEG? The one (EKG) tests the heart, the other (EEG) the brain.
Marcus, I'm pulling for you. :up:
Work with your Neuro, it sounds like you're in good hands.
I'm reading a lot of stuff in this thread that sounds VERY familiar.
I'm holding back a lot of stuff for good reasons. Get a solid diagnosis and then we can talk. :yep:
One thing that will help, no matter what the outcome- learn to control your stress. Basic meditation works great. That doesn't mean "give up and give in", just learn how to manage your stress levels.
Good luck, buddy. :yeah:
Thats the test for the so-called Babinski- or Plantar reflex: LINK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantar_reflex).
EKG, you said - or was it an EEG? The one (EKG) tests the heart, the other (EEG) the brain.
It was an EKG It was the heart who was tested.
The medicin these Beta Blockers do not help at all. Maybe the doctor increase the dosis I get.
Markus
Hi Markus, some more prayers are in order I feel, I hope things turn out ok, or at least on the mend. :hmmm:
Cheers. :up:
Hi Markus, some more prayers are in order I feel, I hope things turn out ok, or at least on the mend. :hmmm:
Cheers. :up:
Thank you Reece I hope there's a treatment either as medicin or as some exercise.
I get help to take my eyedrops(For my Glaucoma)
If this shaking continue to evolve I will soon need help to brush my teeth. How fun would that be ?
Markus
Skybird
01-22-25, 08:01 AM
I get help to take my eyedrops(For my Glaucoma)
Strong correlations between patients with glaucoma and certain vitamin deficits (C, E, B3, B6, B12, possibly also E and magnesium). Amount of the effect could be be sex-dependent, data on that seems to not be consistent, however. In males, deficits in B1 and B2 seem to have no effect of probability for forming a glaucoma, while in females it maybe is the case.
Correlations between patients with glaucoma and carbohydrate-intense diet habits. A very strong link of carbohydrate- intense diet to metabolic syndrome or even diabetes should be kept on mind.
Omega 3 reduces the inner eye pressure.
There even might be a positive benefit of consuming nitrates (!!) on reducing probability for declining eyesight and glaucoma. This is not yet fully established, however.
As described in my PM, functional links between high heart rate (thus your beta blockers...) and low salt intake.
High heart rates can also be triggered by a diet that is saturated in potassium. (Low potassium again is also a danger, but its like this with evertyhing we eat: there can be too much and there can be too little).
Forgot to tell you something:
I'm glad I have an electric shaver-I would cut myself severe if I used an old shaver.
Markus
It was an EKG It was the heart who was tested.
The medicin these Beta Blockers do not help at all. Maybe the doctor increase the dosis I get.
Markus
An EKG (or ECG, as more US doctors seem to now call it) is actually very common in neuro cases, as I found out; my neurologist referred me to a cardiologist and, when I asked why, the cardiologist said the referral was to see if there were any cardio/circulatory issues that may have affected or caused my strokes; poor circulation can cause problems in the brain and some issues, such as plaque particles in the veins and arteries, can cause blockages in thr brain which, in turn, can cause conditions such as strokes, neurological impairment, etc. My cardiologist has found that I have a partial blockage in a vein on my right side neck and a two week monitoring of my heart turned up an anomaly in my heart beat that an ordinary EKG/ECG would not have likely found; as a result, like you, I am also now on beta blockers; as with most medications, it can take some time before actual benefits become apparent, so a bit of patience is needed; it is usually more important to keep note of any detrimental effects that may occur after you first start taking a new medication, which I learned the hard way; I was put on a new statin a while back and started to experience some rather unpleasant and severe reactions and, when I brought the situation up to the primary care MD, his response was "the benefits of the new statin outweigh the downsides of the reactions; I was in a rather miserable state until I had a change of primary MD who took one look at my then medication list and said the statin I had been prescribed was too harsh for someone in my condition; he put me on a different statin and, after a couple of weeks, almost all my issues resolved themselves...
Give your medications a bit of time to see what effects they have, good or bad, and, by all means, be vocal and as persistent as necessary with your MDs regarding your concerns; as ET2SN advised, work with your neurologist, give your meds a chance to see what good or ill they may cause, and try to not stress over the maybes until you have more certainties to work with; I know it's hard to do, but adding to your stress won't help your condition...
BTW, I also had experienced some severe tremors and outright violent hand shaking, but they have become significantly less severe after the changes in medication and also finally knowing for sure what the sources my conditions are/were; it is indeed possible the severity of some of my symptoms had their roots more in stress than in actual illness...
<O>
I have now received the results of the MRI scan. It showed age-related changes in the brain. However, there was no trace of a brain infarction, blood clots or brain hemorrhage.
Whatever this age-related changes mean it must have something to do with my tremors, maybe not Parkinson.
Markus
Skybird
02-19-25, 11:40 AM
Did they say what specific things they summarize under "age related"? Related to biological age and related to long term habit (namely food and phyiscla activity/excercise)are two very different things. The latter can be changed to see whether that makes a difference, the first cannot be changed.
If something is generally related to age, than one would need to assume that many, most, all people of that age show the same symptoms. Because we all grow old. But obviously this is not the case.
Did they say what specific things they summarize under "age related"? Related to biological age and related to long term habit (namely food and phyiscla activity/excercise)are two very different things. The latter can be changed to see whether that makes a difference, the first cannot be changed.
If something is generally related to age, than one would need to assume that many, most, all people of that age show the same symptoms. Because we all grow old. But obviously this is not the case.
I received the message in a mail and it only said Age-related changes in the brain and the other thing.
I've tried to google it to see if I could find anything on the matter. Found pages about demens
Markus
Skybird
02-19-25, 05:20 PM
I would rate such an unspecific diagnosis as completely unsatisfactory. It says nothing and is an excuse to also do nothing becasue "you cant help it, its age, so live with it".
In my understanding many aspects of age-related demens and dementia is - consequece of life-long or at least long lasting malnutrition and undersupply with specific nutrients, and oversupply with the wrong "nutrients" (toxines). That also relates to plaques of various types and kinds in arteries and along neurons (glycaemification).
Positive effects might be possible by the consumption of
- Omega-3 fatty acids EPA and DHA and DPA,
- foods raising - yes, raising, I am absolutely serious!! - cholesterol (animal food sources),
- coconut oil and MCT oil,
- base your energy production not on carbohydrates but fatty acids and especially - yes I know, but again I am serious - unsaturated fatty acids,
- and reduced co-encyme Q10 Ubiquinol,
- make sure you hgave a sioldi supply with all Vitamin Bs.
You maybe think I sing the old song of Carnivore again, but no, not necessarly so, I think more in terms of autophagy-triggering intermittend fasting combined with the ketogenic diet.
Of course bad habits like plant seed oils and sugars should be left out.
I know that some progessive doctors think of age.ralted emewns symptoms as inflammations of the brain and/or nutrient-malsupply form bad diet.
The following videos are just random smaples of the material available.
I promise nothing, but to try this stuff out costs you nothing and is practically risk-free. Neither this post nor the videos are a complete coverage of all what to be said on diet, demens and dementia (not the same, but might be close in functional correlations due to the affected and included organ being the brain).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-WC0LxQbA0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXX4iMuwaVQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmkvmRW0yVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FsuO_dOR4M
I want to illustrate by these exmaples that it is always the same important things being brought up.
Cybermat47
02-19-25, 06:04 PM
Hope you’re doing well, mapuc.
Hope you’re doing well, mapuc.
Thank you for your concern I'm doing fine despite these shakings.
Since some day back my mouth have started to vibrate especially when I lay down it is my lower jaw who is vibrating/shaking.
Markus
Had a talk with my doctor yesterday and he said there are two possibility to my tremor and what this MRI have shown.
Parkinson
Dewey's Dementia
Both are due to age-related changes in the brain.
Markus
Skybird
02-25-25, 06:13 PM
Sorry to hear that. The problem is that a certain form of protein, the so-called Alpha-Synoclein, forms plaques along neurons and neural cells. These plaques are so far not known to be removable, but there is much research going on in this direction. Further progression of the symptoms maybe can be influenced by nutrition indeed.
Often mentioned are:
- antioxidants and inflammation-inhibiting foods,
- Omega-3s,
- vitamine E,
- D,
- and certain vitamins of the B-complex (conflicting data on the Bs).
Recommended are:
- ketogenic or
- so-called mediterranean diet styles,
- means: avoid carbohydrates, the less carbs, the better. Of course, that includes refined sugar. Carbohydrates are a top inflammator.
- Avoid plant seed oils at all cost, these things should be banned in general. They too are a top inflammator. Maybe even worse than sugars.
- Use healthy fats like olive oil, animal fats, butter, MCTs, avocado oil, coconut oil.
- Avoid ultra-processed industrial "food".
- And finally EAT WELL! Both these demntia cna be heavily caused and worstend both by under-eating at higher age, which is quite common in elder people, or malnutrition in younger years, putting stuff into your body that trigger and pamper the development of these plaques. Eat good stuff, and eat well, sufficient (meaning quantity).
Coconut oil holds potential to really impact positively on neural degeneration symptoms, as long as the neuron is not completely dead already. The studies rejecting this and came to my knowledge used hilariously low and thus therapeutically inefficient doses. Its worth a try, I say.
You will probably not be able to stop the progression of both deseases, but maybe you find you can slow it down. A try is worth it since it costs you nothing and includes no additional risk.
A Lewy Body Dementia shares symptoms with Alzheimer, thus both get often misdiagnosed, the one taken for the other.
I say again, the attempt of trying this is free and costs you practically nothing. The risks are in my view non existent. Success is not guaranteed, but then: you also have nothing to lose when trying it.
Have courage, stay committed!
:salute:
A question
I'm also suffering from Diabetic 2 and I have seen the word
diabetic ketoacidosis.
In a KETO-Diet your body enter this Ketosis.
Is Ketosis the same as Ketoacidosis ?
Edit
While waiting for an answer I made a search and found this
"Ketosis is a metabolic process that occurs when the body breaks down fat for energy if it's not getting enough carbohydrates. Ketoacidosis, meanwhile, is typically a life-threatening complication of diabetes. It happens when insulin levels drop dangerously low, causing a buildup of ketones and acid in the blood."
End edit
Markus
Skybird
02-26-25, 07:31 AM
I'm also suffering from Diabetic 2 and I have seen the word
diabetic ketoacidosis.
In a KETO-Diet your body enter this Ketosis.
Is Ketosis the same as Ketoacidosis ?
No! Not by a huge margin! Lets go through it in the right order, since many people over and over again mistake these two things.
First things first. As a late fetus, baby, child in the first years of its life, we are in ketosis, as long as we do not get put on carbohydrates. Ketosis is our most natural and our first energetic metabolic state, our bodies must not learn it as an adult, it just needs to remember it. Ketosis means our body "refines" fats in the liver and forms ketone bodies or ketones, these are the carriers of the needed energy that get shuttled around in the body and used in place of glucose/glucagon. When we get no longer mothermilk, but get taught to eat fruits and veggies and cereals, our body switches to glucose as its primary energy source, and it does so easily, unfortunately. Glucose gets further "refined" in Glucagon, which is stored and used as needed. It takes time to form glucagon, like it does take time to form ketones, but ketone-production nevertheless is faster in a system in ketosis. And since all your body fat serves as an energy reserve, if need be, you have 12-15 times more energy available, potentially, than you have energy in form of glucagon. Thats why it is much harder for you to tire out while being in ketosis, than if you were in a state of glucose-based energy production. Glucagon reserves get eaten up quickly and then take long time to refill, but since only rarely they get depleted (since we do not hunt, fight, run and survival that much anymore), our body prefers to make body energy from Glucose, its easier, less complex. Fat-metabolism on the other hand means you have a much longer reach in physical stamina/duration, and you do not have all the negative side effects of a carbohydrate-based metabolism. The body makes the very little glucose it indeed needs itself, there is non reason to fill glucose in from outside via food. Glucose energy cycle is a backup system for times of need and emergency, when meat and fish and fats from animals are not available, but it comes at a price. It should not be our normal standard energy production mode. Ketosis should be. We are designed to be ketogenic. The lion'S share if not all of modern civilizational diseases comes from us insisting that we know better than millions of years of evolutionary biological development and that we should make the backup system our primary operational mode - while the primary one nevertheless is absolutely functional and unbroken. The seocndary system is not mean to do the long run, it is meant to step in as a temporary fix and improvised solution, to be switched off again once the primary system is back on duty. It also helps to stgore some reserves inanutumn, when we sneak throguzn theb forest and occaisoanlly may stumble over a handful of soar wild berries with some carbs in them. There glucise gets stored in the fat cells sicne we are in ketosis, and form there they add to our chance that we survive winter. Isn't it wonderful how everything in nature falls into its right place - if only you let it?!
Now, ketoacedosis. Thats a state that mostly is found in type 1 diabetics, can also be triggered by alcohol abuse, could show up in pregnancy, or as a result from using certain medications.
The problem is the low supply in insulin, may it be that the pancreas does not make enough insuline, may it be that the artifical supply via syringe is dosed too low. This state triggers a sudden overreduction of fat in the fat reseves, and the liver gets practically overflooded with fat. It then creates ketones like crazy, but there is a problem in this specific situation: since there is no insuline in the blood, there is plenty of sugar in the blood. And this prevents that the ketones can get burned in the mitochondria inside the cells. The raising levels of unused ketones make the blood more acidic.
In healthy people, a too huge rise in ketone production can trigger a mild insuline reaction (where consumming fat in normal ammounts does not do that). You have a feedback mechanism here that serves the purpose of a security valve. In diabetics, this obviously can fail, they have no or too low insuline reactions already at the beginning of this process, and wont make any more insuline. I dont know for certain, but I would assume that as long as he does not need to take insulin, even a type 2 diabetic still is relatively safe. And even if he must take it, the better chances are that ketoacidosis does not become a problem. It happens. But not to most of those likely candidates.
Since ketones raise the pH level of the blood and make it more acidic, this is dangerous since the ph-level of blood must remain within extremely tight upper and lower levels, I think it was between 7.35 and 7.45 pH. In a ketoacedosis, ketones in the blood reach levels of 15+ mmol/l, which is very much, and dangerous, such acidic blood will practically always cause the person feeling very ill - you really will feel it if you are in a ketoacidosis! Normal levels of ketones in the blood of people in a solid good state of healthy ketosis are 5-7 mmol/l. Many people report even levels of just 2-4 mmol/l when being in ketosis.
Test strips for ketones where you pee on them and then read a colour grade against a scale and can estimate your ketone numbers this way, are primarily meant for diabetics right to test for their risk to approach a state of ketoacedosis. You cna fereely buy them at for exmaple Amazon. For normal people on a ketogenic diet, they only make sense at the beginning of their journey, since the more their body is remembering how to use ketones for energy needs, the less it is willing to excrete ketones with the urine anymore. So they may be in a deep and solid ketosis, but find that over time the test strip says that their number of ketones in the urine is dropping. Quite some confusion can come from this! If you want to monitor your kjetones, you need to scan your blood. There are small devices like those used for measuring sugar in the blood, you need a drop of blood, put it into the sensor, and read the number. 30-40 Euros. There are even such devices that allow both ketone and blood sugar measurment.
I would say that for both type 1 and 2 diabetics, carbohadrate avoiding diet is the diet of choice, may it be ketogenic, may it be carnivore, or whatever. Leave out those carbs, also in cereals. Cereals are not healthy, cereals ARE carbs! Sugar, that means. Almost completely.
A state of ketoacedosis is utmost dangerous and life threatening, immediate emergency care by a doctor or hospital crew is absolutely necessary.
So, Markus, if you fear your health problems are due to a creeping-in ketoacedosis, I think I am on the safe side when I tell you: you must not worry. First, you are type 2 and not type 1 diabetic, and second, if you were in a ketoacedosis all these days and no doctor treating it (those you met recently obviously also did not recognise it), you most likely by now would already be dead. :03: I see even less risk for you if you, as a Diabetic type 2, also must not yet take insulin.
Thank you so much for your in-deep answers.
I've decided to start on the Carnivore diet next month.
Markus
Raf1394
02-26-25, 09:12 AM
The best thing is always to advice what doctors say.
Or let them check you out. Doctors always know better.
Goodluck! Hope everything keeps well Mapuc.
Skybird
02-26-25, 09:37 AM
Start slow.
Start slow.
Start slow.
:03:
I think ever more that this is not just good advice, but is really important.
I would even recommend to first go ketogenic for some time. I think my reasons are relevant:
Carnivor and lion diet are the most radical reduction diets there are. That means Carnivore reduces risks by simply leaving factors and factors of different possible food ingredients out that thus cnanot pose a risk anymore. As if you simplify a formula, an algorithm I mean by deleting variables in it. This also reduces taste variation. Some people find it more difficult to adapt to a smaller taste spectrum. It can be demotivating if approahcign tis wrongly, and if you are too harsh in the beginning, you may stall and prematurely give up.
Also if your body has no recent experiences with ketogenic or carnivore episodes, changing the metabolism takes time. The time becomes shorter the more often you switch in follwing years, say every four months or so. If you even wnat to switch, that is. But in the beginning, you may need anything between ten days and three or four weeks, it depends, people are differently, and start with at different status.
Your body will go through a transition where the glucagon-metabolism gets shut down and your ketogenic metabolism fires up. Your body must remember it, its not really new to it, but has not done it for a very long time. Energy production can be instabile a bit . A BIT, not drastically. You may feel it in form of mild neck or head pain, feeling a bit cold, or the famous so-called "keto-flu" even with a mkiold fever occaisonally. All this normal, it must not but can show up, it shows that the energy production from glucose is no more, and that the energy from ketone still is not running optimal, is still in the process of adaptation, maintenance and finetuning. Be prepared for this, expect it! If then you find you suffer milder or no symptoms - even better.
My advice therefore: start with reducing carbs in your food. Namely evertyhing sweet. Sugar. Sweetener (complex topic but relevant, I underestimated it too long). Bread, sweet spreads. All forms of cereals and grains. Plant seed oils!!!!! Clear cut, let it be, period.
Then start taking out fruits one by one, and reduce veggies, rice, potatoes, noodles, and so forth.
Give every such phase a week or two days. Or make the transition smooth and constant. You know the difference between "cold turkey" and "slow detoxification therapy"? :) Cold turkey works, but it can be brutal. Detoxification over a period of time also works, but takes longer. Think of your current carbohydrate diet as a form of intoxification. Thats what it is.
In principle, nothing is to be said against coffee, Dr. Berry for exmaple tolerates it, so does Dr. Baker, while Dr. Chaffee recommend to get off it. But coffee stimulates bowel emptying for sure. Constipation or much more frequently: diarrhea in general is a problem that every newcomer must deal with, due to the changes in fat consumption, salt consumption. Coffee can play a role, in my personal case I know it does. Sweeteners also can promote diarrhea. You will need to experiment what it does to your digestive tract if you make changes here and there. You will need to give it time.
You will need to balance fat versus protein, but many new carnivores probably exaggerate it with the fat. I do not add fats for thinbkling it is needed, I add them in form of herbal butter and cheese to vary the taste. That is my only motive.
Diarrhea means you lose many electrolytes, you want to do two things for sure:
first: solving the issues that cause it, and second: compensate the loss of electrolytes, here sodium, (salt) potassium, magnesium and calcium are of interest. Salt a smuch as you want, according to taste. Do not limit salt just because the doctor may say so. You then need more potassium. But you must check your meds whether they reduce potassium excretion via urine, beta-blockers for exampel can do that. Then you may have a bit more potassium in your body already. Magnesium you should supplement, and dont be shy. Calcium I would not supplement, never, without a clear medical need and crystal-clear diagnosis . Better let your vitamine D and K2 levels "explode" ! :D No calcium problems then. But you must replace the electrolytes in the beginning of your carnivore journey. You will loose electrolytes in the beginning. Aplenty. Believe it.
Once your digestive system relaxes again and your poop becomes more normal again, you can slowly lay back and relax, too. Could even end in that you poop just every couple of days. I mean, volume can dramatically decline, since you eat no waste anymore, but what you eat practically completely gets assimilated. As long as you have no pain, cramps, constipation or diarrhea, dont worry about what goes on or does not go on down there.
Preferred meat is avoiding monogastric animal meat: pigs, chicken. They digest grass and other stuff differently than animals that have several stomachs (cattle for exmpale has four, not one). This is of a health benebfit for us eating these animals, becasue they breka down fibre and stuff much ebtter than pigs and chicken. Prefer beef, fatty beef that is, and lamb.
Fish: fatty fish preferred, but you can eat in fish what you want.
Eggs. Butter, animal fats. Cream. Ghee. (NO MILK that is not fermented!)
Cheese: strictly spoken it is not carnivore, but I use different cheese to vary flavour and taste, so: I eat cheese. but only cheese without chemical-industrial additives, organic cheese, so to speak. For the same reason I accept the occasional use of Ketjap Manis, which contains not just soy sauce, but also a certain ammount of sugar. I dont take much of it, and not often, only rarely, and preferredly with ground beef.
Can you overeat beef if you eat it every day? No. When you are hungry, you will find the taste of it more appetizing. If you are not hungry, you will find it less appetitizing. Thats it. I eat beef every day since over one and a half year now. I am not tired of it at all. Not at the slightest! I still slobber. Same for eggs, butter. Butter is a wonderful taste.
This is important, markus, its about longterm motivation and compliance. These are precious goods, and if you erode them more than you refill them, you will fail sooner or later. Some things you need to be drastic about, sweets for example, cake. In the first months you must not allow a single exception from the rule of leaving out sweet and sugars - if you go cold turkey. It does not work if you allow exceptions. If you make a slower, smoother transition, you can adapt to the changes in your food spectrum. Takes more time. But I assume many will find it easier. That increases the chances for staying with it, which should be the ultimate goal.
Finally, in the first weeks of beeing fully carnrivore you may feel a huge hunger. Eat as much as you want, as often and as long as you want! As much fat as you want, your probably will notice you nevertheless loose weight. Balance that with your digestion. This is normal. But over time, you should notice that your urge to do so slowly wanes. After the first 5-6 weeks, you should start wanting to reduce your plater, since your metabolism optimised the use of what you eat more and more and wastes less and lesser nutrients in diarrhea. If you then do not reduce your plater - you will gain weight again. A bit is okay and n ormal happens to pratgcically everybody. But it can get too far. Three steps forward, one step back - thats how it was for me, since then I am stable at a BMI around 25, a bit over. But I gain no more. Its okay.
Additonal to the general bloodwork your doc probably has ordered, ask or order and pay yourself for a full nutrient panel before you start, and a full thyroid panels. Repeat 6 and 12 months later. Compare. Supplement where you see the need. In any case: supplement for sure Omega 3, and Vitamine D3 and K2 and Magnesium in high doses.
Skybird
02-26-25, 09:46 AM
The best thing is always to advice what doctors say.
Or let them check you out. Doctors always know better.
No, they do not know it always better, and their advise can and not rarely is opposite to your health interests. Some do give good advise and are open to the stuff I say (and I just repeat what some of such doctors said, write and post!), these are the good ones. They are rare. The others: avoid-avoid-avoid. Most doctors are to be avoided. Some are good ones, keep them if you find one of them. Most dotors are results of the system and the system is aiming not at optimal health, but proifit.
However, What I advise Markus to do is not so much a contradiction to what his doctor told him, because I don't know what he said, but a supplement to every conceivable form of medical treatment. A supplement that offers a chance of additional improvement, albeit not a guarantee.
Have you ever noticed how incredibly sick people are in the West, everywhere? And yet there is no shortage of doctors. Nor is there a shortage of pills that are being prescribed, injecitons that are being applied and therapies that are being undergone. Nevertheless, the incidence of cancer, inflammatory, degenerative, chronic, autoimmune and chronic diseases is exploding. And this is also true of all those parts of the world that are not part of the West but implement Western dietary guidelines. this also explicitly includes the so-called balanced Western mixed diet with lots of fruit and vegetables.
How does that just happen...?
Don't be so gullible about supposed authorities, take responsibility for yourselves, even if it means work. You should consider yourself better than just a sheep in the pasture whose existence is managed by someone else. The things I tlak of and post about are not that difficult to learn, and if I could learn them, you can learn them too, if you have ears to listen and eyes to read. Everybody cna learn, woithin surporisngl yhsort time, to read and understand a general blood test. I have seen Ikea construction instruction that were messier to understand. There is enough complex stuff in medicine where it is not so easily possible to comprehend it all for a layman. But that are things I never and nowhere talk about. I am absolutely aware of my limitations. But I repeatedly made the experience with doctors over the past years, doctors of mine and mainly of my parents: about nutrition I know by now a whole damn lot more than any of these mentioned doctors. And if you have an idea about the content of the curriculum for medical students at universities (I have), then you know why that is so. And this is in germany. I think in other countries and namely the US it must be even much worse. Sene that way, we are still a bit better off in Germany, but here things also worsen.
Heck, doctors told me over more than three decades that I would need to die early and probably quite miserably i n paralysis and pain from mysterious neurological disorder they could not identify - and I prepared and arranged my life plan to this! They kept me on blood pressure meds and nibbled on my symptoms for another 15 years and did not care to adress the underlying causes - because they had no clue. I cured myself. I take no meds anymore. the damocles sword of early painful death over my head - is gone. I have improved that status of my father both physically and especially mentally, he is getting 81. I have drastically helped my Mum. Plus three, four others whom I put on a different track, and it paid off very well for them.
Stop kneeling before your doctors. Ask them, quiz them, which has as a precondition that you have gained some knowledge on the topic yourself. And then weigh what they say and how they behave, and then decide. Take responsibility for yourself. The consequences, good or bad, will be yours, always.Consequences of your decisions - but also consequences of their decisions. If THEY mess it up for you, YOU pay the price nevertheless. Try to find comfort in that then. You will search in vain.
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