So Russia is at war with Europe

[Catfish]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-police-investigate-role-foreign-ship-after-power-cable-outage-2024-12-26/

Also with Azerbaijan it seems
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/azerbaijan-airlines-flight-was-downed-by-russian-air-defence-system-four-sources-2024-12-26/

[mapuc]

More likely a Hybrid war. Hasn't turn into a real war...not yet.

Markus

[Skybird]

So Russia is at war with Europe

You are 15-20 years late with that realization. :03: Well, most of us were. But already in the early 00-years when he visited Germany, parts of his speech projected his intentions. That came so close after he apparently tried to approach Europe when he had taken over form Yeltzin that these wanrings got ignored, not believed. But that he said that he saw the fall of the Sovjet Union is the biggest historical drama and desaster in modern history, should have been a warning to us all.

Aber hinterher ist man ja immer klüger... :)


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https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/in-der-ostsee-sabotierte-russland-erneut-kabel-jeder-neue-vorfall-ist-demuetigung-fuer-den-westen_id_260590387.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp


More likely a Hybrid war. Hasn't turn into a real war...not yet.

MarkusWar is war, no matter the tools choosen. The intention is the same hostile one.

[Buddahaid]

And no appeasement. The world knows where that leads, or used to.

[Shadowblade]

dont forget the blowing up the ammo depots in Vrbetice in Czech Republic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions

[Skybird]

dont forget the blowing up the ammo depots in Vrbetice in Czech Republic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions
And attempted and successful arsoning of freight planes from and airports in Germany. And a military factory in I think it was Berlin. And "mysterious" :haha: drones over Bundeswehr bases. And assassinations, both attenmpted and successful, in Germany. And the interference with national elections. Notorious cyber attacks. Wars by "criminal gangs" as proxies to disprupt public administration, and hospitals. Endangering public maritime and air traffic by jamming GPS over the Baltic and North Sea, far away from the war theatre in Ukraine.

Russia wages war against the West since many, many years.

[Jimbuna]

What become of all the rumours Putin was terminally ill?

[JU_88]

No idea, but wouldnt matter if he dropped dead, he has surrounded him self with like minded people and removed all opposition, so in fact Putins replacement could potentially be much worse,
Anyway Ukraine will probably end with some kind of split - it is the only possible way out now - no one will 'win', And War or no war, Europe is in trouble, going backwards by just about every metric. Ecomonically, socially, politically, Demographically its in the toilet,
The EU and the ECB may well be on their final decade if they cant turn things around in the coming years, they are too idealogically driven, if that ideology is shattered what's left? they have nothing else to fall back on.

[Jimbuna]

Probably right Francis but the thought is quite worrying.

[August]

What become of all the rumours Putin was terminally ill?


I'd guess that his continued survival belies that particular theory.

[Dargo]

What become of all the rumours Putin was terminally ill?That rumour is at least 15 years old among the Russians, dates back to the Soviet time period when all leadership became increasingly geriatric this the normal conversation at the Russian kitchen table.

[Skybird]

He IS dead since years. What we see are simulacra. :O:

[Catfish]

https://www.lloydslist.com/LL1151955/Russia-linked-cable-cutting-tanker-seized-by-Finland-was-loaded-with-spying-equipment

[August]

https://www.lloydslist.com/LL1151955/Russia-linked-cable-cutting-tanker-seized-by-Finland-was-loaded-with-spying-equipment


They said listening and recording equipment was brought on to the 20-year-old tanker via “huge portable suitcases” along with “many laptops” that had keyboards for Turkish and Russian languages when calling at Türkiye and Russia.
The equipment was kept on the bridge or in the “monkey island”, they said. The monkey island is the top-most place on the ship.
The transmitting and receiving devices were used to record all radio frequencies, and upon reaching Russia were offloaded for analysis.
“They were monitoring all Nato naval ships and aircraft,” Lloyd’s List was told.
“They had all details on them. They were just matching their frequencies.
“Russians, Turkish, Indian radio officers were operating it.”
What are Turks and Indians doing operating equipment on a Russian spy ship?

[Jimbuna]

I've never been entirely comfortable with Turkey being a NATO member but it is a great place to go on a vacation.

[Catfish]

^ this .. but since Erdoghan we abstained from visiting Turkey. It is not good for the hotels and tourism, but "play stupid games, win stupid prizes".

@Jim maybe we can merge the thread with the "Russia at war with Europe" thread – I tried to delete the intitial post to do this myself but the delete button was gone.
Also I seem to get kicked out of being logged in within a very short time lately, maybe too much traffic? :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

^ Send me a link Kai and I'll do the merge first thing in the morning.

Regarding the 'logged in' problem that is the first such report but if it persists be sure to let me know.

[Jimbuna]

Threads merged.

[Catfish]

^ Thanks Jim.

[Jimbuna]

^ Not a problem my friend.

[mapuc]

Read an article about Russian hybrid war and the military expert they have interviewet said this around hybrid war
'Hybrid war is a state of conflict that lies somewhere between war and peace.'

I agree with him-It's not a real war. But it can turn into a real war if Russia keeps on conducting hybrid war against NATO/Europe.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

We are probably now at or very near to the previous Cold War level.

[Skybird]

We are probably now at or very near to the previous Cold War level.I live up to people's expectations and say it already is worse.

[Jimbuna]

I live up to people's expectations and say it already is worse.

Fair enough :03:

[mapuc]

I decided to translate the entire article, since I found it interesting.

Might be enough
And then there are the many small streams. When did they become a river so big that we can no longer ignore it?

- What can happen, and the discussion has actually already started, is that we, for example, internally in NATO can say that there are a lot of things going on in the three spaces, which are certainly happening at a certain level, but when we look at the overall effect, it is actually so severe that it is no longer hybrid war. Now it is real war, says Flemming Splidsboel.

- I'm not saying that's what we should do, but it's a debate that's underway, and it will become even stronger, partly because the Russians are also becoming more desperate.

https://ekstrabladet-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/krigogkatastrofer/forsvarsekspert-det-kan-blive-for-meget/10482492?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=da&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Markus

[mapuc]

More on Russian hybrid warfare by Danish military expert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yabwyb14-BQ

Markus

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7HrCCrckZw

[Skybird]

These videos' headlines are hilarious.


Putin did not end gas supply to Europe, but a treaty between Ukraine and Russia to transfer Russian gas through Ukraine has ended and was not not extended by Ukraine, and Kyiv annoucned it wouldn't extend it since very long time, since it directly finances their enemy's war economy.

[Jimbuna]

The video headlines are nearly always the attraction magnet :yep:

[Skybird]

The video headlines are nearly always the attraction magnet :yep:
Sure? Me they keep away... :O:

[Jimbuna]

Sure? Me they keep away... :O:

Right :)

[Dargo]

Russia misses out on billions that it could put to good use, Slovakia, Austria now have to start paying a higher price for gas and lose revenue for transit. Totally threatening is the situation for Moldova but most for the Transnistria region. In mid-winter, the Transnistria region in particular risks being without heat and hot water. Citizens there are encouraged by their energy companies to use energy sparingly by wearing thick clothes and sharing rooms with many people.

Gazprom still supplies about 10% of total consumption to Europe. Of that, 5% now remains (which goes mainly to Hungary and Serbia via Turkey). Ukrainians can be happy that Russia no longer receives gas billions for supply through the Brotherhood pipeline. For its own energy supply, the damage is also manageable, analysts say. The country has some of its own fossil fuels to get through the winter. And it also imports electricity from Europe. That Slovak Prime Minister Fico threatened that he might send less electricity from Slovakia to Ukraine will not matter, Poland will supply its electricity to Ukraine. The only real loser here is Russia and his cronies. Ukraine will provide electricity to Moldova to cover the deficit in its energy system. Moldovan state-owned company Energocom announced the purchase of electricity.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isoxDMPOLZE

[mapuc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqdIQU8fFPQ

Markus