View Full Version : problem with manual TDC in FOTRSU
hi,
i got the itch for some ship violencing recently and so i installed sh4+fotrsu from fresh. i was doing the tutorial for the 'manual tdc 90degree EZ' and discovered that no matter how carefully i do the manual data input, the stadimeter will always give me a wrong result, typically the main problem is it always give me a range that is like at least 1-2km further that where the actual ship is. and this always leads to the system getting the estimated speed at least 1-2 knot higher making it fail unless u are in extreme close range like less than 1.5km.
is this working as intended? or did i miss sumthing during installation? its a fresh sh4 install. i installed just the fotrsu without the additional stuff provided in the download page, did the LAA and even got the museum running.
oh and also ship id manual does not give the length of the ship.. so i cant use the 'time it took for ship crossing the hairline in periscope' method to estimate the speed so it kinda make the whole thing a bit too frustrating to aim properly..
hmm i am seeing this mistake in stadimeter across the whole fleet, all ship that i tried to manual tdc all give the same 1-2km extra range.
i am thinking it might be the periscope zoom problem. by increasing the zoom slightly i think it will make the ship bigger so when i do the stadimeter i will land the image at a higher place so it will give an accurate range when done accurately.
does anyone know where to adjust this?
propbeanie
03-17-24, 07:57 PM
For the "zoom", use the <Tab> key to go between the two possible zooms. The "zoom" in FotRSU was meticulously set by CapnScurvy after quite a bit of testing and adjusting and testing some more. You field of view and the zoom are as close to "real" as the game allows. That particular mission starts the player too close to the ship and does not give you sufficient time to do more than maybe two attempts at ranging and speed calculation. You do want to find the ship's course, and then get as close as you can to minimize any inherent errors. The stadimeter is only as accurate as your screen display, and as steady as your hand is... I usually just get within 1000 yards on the 90 and shoot at the 12-20 degree angle, depending upon the target's speed (Fast 90). Also, the SH4 owner's manual actually doesn't do too bad with the functionality of manual targeting (SilentHunter4 Manual.pdf)
hmm please dont ban me for stating this:
using stock sh4+ubm (steam) : got the range bang on the dot accurate on first try.
using fotrs v1.3 with steam sh4 : bang on the dot range accurate on first try.
not trying to belittle the hardwork of anyone but there's something seriously wrong with the stadimeter on fotrsu.
KaleunMarco
03-19-24, 10:58 AM
hmm please dont ban me for stating this:
using stock sh4+ubm (steam) : got the range bang on the dot accurate on first try.
using fotrs v1.3 with steam sh4 : bang on the dot range accurate on first try.
not trying to belittle the hardwork of anyone but there's something seriously wrong with the stadimeter on fotrsu.
ban you...no.
take the mickey out on you....possibly.
de-install fotrs 1.3 and download and install FOTRSU 1.8 (https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=243064).
:Kaleun_Salute:
nah.. i thought of going for v1.3. but that's too 2012..
finally figured how to get a sh4 patch 1.4 going after 1 night of trying. now i am running fotrs v2.0. although i only know 2 words in german 'panzerkampfwagen' and 'flammenwerf'... but they have working stadimeter. lol.
propbeanie
03-20-24, 07:19 AM
Had you emptied the Save folder, which defaults to C:\Users \UserName \Documents \SH4 after you activated FotRSU v1.8? It uses quite a few "assets" differently than the Stock or any other modded game, and if you do not empty the Save folder, the game does not run correctly. That also applies to most major mod configuration changes with JSGME, but is dependent upon what is changed when doing so. If you still have FotRSU activated, run its JSGME and choose "Tasks..." in the middle, then "Export activated mods list to --->" and choose either "Clipboard" or "Text file", and paste the info into your next post. As an aside, there is a partial English translation in the SubSim downloads somewhere for v2.x of FOTRS. It is a beautiful looking mod, and is what FotRSU was built on, along with combining v1.2 and v1.3 of the SH4v1.5 mods. You will most likely find that the AI is quite persistent in FOTRS v2.x :salute:
cant get the log now.. i already wiped out the sh4 v1.5. now i am on sh4v1.4 doing fotrs v2.0.
will look for the file tyvm :D its tough playing with full german language.. i am using a 2nd monitor to type out everything sent from radio in to google translate while pausing the game.. it however gave a strange vibe of working the enigma machine.. LMFAO...
ps:
is this the link u mentioned?
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=226278
the link on the top of the page that was supposedly leading to a translated version only leads to the same german version download page unfortunately.
initial testing of FOTRS v2.0 (ge):
-radar is not working. big disappointment.
-friendly unit dont seems to generate sound in hydrophone.i think this comes from stock.
-sometimes the sound just bug out and gives out a long super loud garble of noises. super annoying. encountered twice in few hours of play, happened during dive/surfacing when time compression is used.
not sure to continue with this or go back to fotrsu at this point.
propbeanie
03-21-24, 08:08 PM
Which boat are you in, and what year is it? FOTRS tried to have relatively accurate dates for both the SD and SJ radars, so it is like June 1942 before SD Air Search, and later for SJ Surface search.
There is an issue with at least one, possibly three ships in Stock that do not have the "sound" correct for sonar/hydrophones, and that is carried into FOTRS.
The Stock game mostly uses 44.1kHz, 16-bit audio, which would be "CD Quality", for the wave file sounds. Speech is mostly ogg vorbis. Music might be mp3 or wav. The 'modern' computer is usually running at 48kHz at 24-bit depth, since most of the online movies are at that or at 16-bits. That can sometimes lead to issues with older DirectX v9 games, such as SH4. Also, if I'm not mistaken, there are a few sounds in FOTRS that are not "Stock game compliant", and are either lower in frequency or bit-depth, which can throw the game's audio engine off. However, another factor could be if you hadn't deleted the Save folder after activating the mod, which could also contribute to radar, sonar and hydrophone issues. The only "problem" with FOTRS (besides the language barrier) is the number of what I call "run-away spawns" that occur, mostly from Japanese ports with IJN DD that were not docked properly, or were not terminated properly. I thought I had a "fix" posted for that on SubSim here, but cannot find that. I'll try to dig that out of the old computer and re-upload it. :salute:
i am not sure if i have removed the save files in btwn the operation. will reinstall another round to get to the bottom of it..
in my fotrs v2.0 i started at 8th dec right after pearl harbor. when i go to sub component screen at base there are SD radar already installed on my sargo boat. but no air radar installed nor in store yet. and when i go for the 1st patrol both the air and sea radar is not working . as in, i cant flip the switch to turn on the thing.
i am even beginning to enjoy working the enigma machine. its weird coz i am supposed to be on the american side.
:Kaleun_Cheers:
Fresh / clean install - same issue. See image I attach below for further details
I'm new here, so do check over my image for obvious mistake. Joining only the other day, so I could just be screwing things up. I follow the instructions, including deleting the documents / savegames folder, and on the face of it, have a somehwat fully working SH4 v1.5 + FotRSU v1.8 install. I done the 2GB memory hack thing, and installed the game outside programfiles.
My modded game works fine EXCEPT when I turn the difficulty settings up (ie manual targeting). When it comes to tracking the enemy ship, the speed does not translate onto the TDC and update, my torpedoes constantly fire at where the target was when I fire them (ie speed = 0). The only way round this is to guestimate where the target will be, and point the periscope in that direction.
I tried the same career on easy, and the thing just automatically lines up and hits the target with zero effort, which I find removes all challenge.
Note that when I user the sonar/hydro operator, he will give me accurate target range also, but it does also not track/update with the speed, so either way of doing this doesn't work for me.
Otherwise everything (in so far as I can tell) appears to work. The radar seems a little bit dodgy, but I've found just turn it off and on again, then force a sweep fixes the issue.
Any help regarding the TDC really appreciated (I am new to this game, only bought it last week and installed FotRSU based on friendly community advice)
https://gamesbrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/no_range_update-2000x1125.jpg
this is frustrating because my lengthy post with attached image just got deleted where i tried to highlight the same issue.
I'm new here, so clean SH4 / FotRSU installation, following the instructions. The whole setup seems to work fine & as intended, UNLESS I turned the TDC difficulty up (which is what I want).
When this happens, the whole process of using periscope to ID the enemy ship, get range, AoB and so forth seems to work perfectly, but once the speed is sent over (which the TDC accepts by its own account) the target information is NOT kept updated, despite the scope being "locked" on target. The range to target does NOT tick down.
In addition to this, firing the torpedos fires them wherever the scope is looking, and not into the projected path of the ship, based on speed + angle and all that good stuff. I even unlocked the periscope to try and guestimate where target would be once the torp covered distance to target, and to my suprise, the torpedo still fired directly towards the ship (even though it was about 20 degrees off the bow!)
Somehow, my speed inputs are not being made use of by either the TDC for ship tracking purposes, nor the gyro settings on the torpedoes to make their initial turns towards target.
My screenshot shows the passage of time (stiched 2 together) with no change on the range. It shows the target is locked, the AoB was appx 40-45 degrees Starboard (ie approaching) and speed was set at 11kts (which the TDC shows as being accepted, alongside range).
The range was roughly 2500-3000 yards if memory serves, but it was NOT ticking down as the seconds went on by. Come to think of it, none of the values were updating, including AoB etc, all of which I updated several times, hoping at some point the TDC would "take hold".
Can anyone think of any ideas, short of playing this game on easy, which is exactly not what I wanted.
PS I did the install & activation instructions, including to install outside programfiles, the 4GB Memory address hack thing, and the running then deletion of docs / sh4 savegames folder contents... And otherwise the thing seems to work perfectly. Thanks in advance
The range was roughly 2500-3000 yards if memory serves, but it was NOT ticking down as the seconds went on by. Come to think of it, none of the values were updating, including AoB etc, all of which I updated several times, hoping at some point the TDC would "take hold".
I have not used FotRSU, but from the screenshots, it looks like you haven't turned on the Position Keeper.
Click that button next to the Position Keeper and Torpedo Settings labels, and it will light up. Then you should see the TDC values updating.
1Patriotofmany
03-22-24, 03:23 PM
I have not used FotRSU, but from the screenshots, it looks like you haven't turned on the Position Keeper.
Click that button next to the Position Keeper and Torpedo Settings labels, and it will light up. Then you should see the TDC values updating.I don't use manual but I'm going to bet you nailed it on the head.
KaleunMarco
03-22-24, 08:51 PM
I don't use manual but I'm going to bet you nailed it on the head.
you can use the PK with auto-targeting but remember to "un-use" it before you make your final observation and fire. shooting with PK will guarantee a miss.
you can use the PK with auto-targeting but remember to "un-use" it before you make your final observation and fire. shooting with PK will guarantee a miss.
hmm ur pk is unreliable probably coz of the malfunctioning stadimeter with fotrsu...
just did a clean install of fotrs v2 (ge), 2nd patrol, bagged fuso off brunei + 2 big merchant south of davao. all using pk. no torp missed yet lel..
some of the custom made freighter still give wrong range reading when using stadimeter in fotrs v2 though. probably because the scale of the model is bad.
I have not used FotRSU, but from the screenshots, it looks like you haven't turned on the Position Keeper.
Click that button next to the Position Keeper and Torpedo Settings labels, and it will light up. Then you should see the TDC values updating.
thanks for the suggestion - unfortunately this doesn't fix the issue, it just toggles between torp settings, which toggles the display between tracking and the fish settings (run depth / spread setting).
thanks for the suggestion - unfortunately this doesn't fix the issue, it just toggles between torp settings, which toggles the display between tracking and the fish settings (run depth / spread setting).
he means the round thingy beside the up-down slider that switch btwn torp and ship angle settings. once u clicked it, it glows red. in your screenie they are all in grey.. meaning u didnt click it after data input.
once u have input the range+angle on bow + speed settings on the upper right dial. click the round thingy at the lower right side of the upper left corner panel.. that will activate position keeper using the data u put in.
he means the round thingy beside the up-down slider that switch btwn torp and ship angle settings. once u clicked it, it glows red. in your screenie they are all in grey.. meaning u didnt click it after data input.
Yes:
https://i.imgur.com/HYKQCAK.png
propbeanie
03-23-24, 12:30 PM
hmm ur pk is unreliable probably coz of the malfunctioning stadimeter with fotrsu...
just did a clean install of fotrs v2 (ge), 2nd patrol, bagged fuso off brunei + 2 big merchant south of davao. all using pk. no torp missed yet lel..
some of the custom made freighter still give wrong range reading when using stadimeter in fotrs v2 though. probably because the scale of the model is bad.
What are you using to "measure" the ship with to claim the scale of the model is bad?? If you use the RecMan, ALL of the models were painstakingly measured for mast height by DanielCoffey when he did all of the ship sil files, and that data will show in the RecMan. The figures are not very realistic in their accuracy, but people complained about the previous "fog of war" figures that were in the mod. The merchant ships were constantly altered throughout the war to change their appearance, the masts were shortened and lengthened at various times, and the funnels were also often altered, and possible bridge structure changes made, not failing to mention the "dazzle" paint schemes used. We cannot get most of that to happen in a mod. The stadimeter does not 'malfunction' in my install, and I do not have access to your computers to see what you folks have, so I cannot speak to what might be amiss with your installs and activations. You will find discrepancies between different uses of the stadimeter due to screen resolution and how accurate you are at placing the doubled image. Refer to the RecMan for ships that have altered "targeting" locations... Proper identification of the various ships is also quite important. :salute:
What are you using to "measure" the ship with to claim the scale of the model is bad?? If you use the RecMan, ALL of the models were painstakingly measured for mast height by DanielCoffey when he did all of the ship sil files, and that data will show in the RecMan. The figures are not very realistic in their accuracy, but people complained about the previous "fog of war" figures that were in the mod. The merchant ships were constantly altered throughout the war to change their appearance, the masts were shortened and lengthened at various times, and the funnels were also often altered, and possible bridge structure changes made, not failing to mention the "dazzle" paint schemes used. We cannot get most of that to happen in a mod. The stadimeter does not 'malfunction' in my install, and I do not have access to your computers to see what you folks have, so I cannot speak to what might be amiss with your installs and activations. You will find discrepancies between different uses of the stadimeter due to screen resolution and how accurate you are at placing the doubled image. Refer to the RecMan for ships that have altered "targeting" locations... Proper identification of the various ships is also quite important. :salute:
i just set the realism to have map update. then go to training mission to do manual tdc, after keying in the data and setting pk on, u can see the accuracy of your data in comparison with the real ship position in the weapons map. in fotrsu it will always come out as the data u keyed in have major flaw in distance, the keyed in data using stadimeter will always show to be much much further than where the real ship is. this error happens to all ship measured throughout the game. and due to this the tdc computer will always give higher speed prediction because the range u put in is much higher.
in fotrsu u almost always have to land the stadimeter like approximately 5-10meter higher above the real ship image in order to get a correct pk info.
oh by the way i am using 1920x1080 resolution. no other mod added.
load up fotrs v1.3 or 2.0 and u will see the stadimeter give a much more accurate range.
1Patriotofmany
03-23-24, 01:31 PM
you can use the PK with auto-targeting but remember to "un-use" it before you make your final observation and fire. shooting with PK will guarantee a miss. Yeah I found that out also when I shot at another ship without unclicking it and the torps went into the same ship I had already hit. DOOOH. I don't ordinarily use it since the auto works fine without it.
I have no problems using the PK so I don't know what the beef is with it. I also use Easy AOB. Good mod. And even when I don't use Easy AOB the PK works great for me. Than again I don't turn it on until I'm under 2000 yards.
KaleunMarco
04-02-24, 09:36 AM
I have no problems using the PK so I don't know what the beef is with it. I also use Easy AOB. Good mod. And even when I don't use Easy AOB the PK works great for me. Than again I don't turn it on until I'm under 2000 yards.
that's great but some use it as a distance-keeper-update when they are ahead of the target, submerged, and waiting. for example, you detect a convoy at 10-12,000 yds and determine its course. you select a target and turn on the PK, submerge and make your approach. the PK keeps you updated on the distance to the target. but one would need to turn off the PK and re-adjust the distance, aob, etc. and then take your shot.
does that help?
but one would need to turn off the PK and re-adjust the distance, aob, etc. and then take your shot.
But you can adjust those while the PK is on, and the TDC keeps updating the gyro angle based on the new inputs.
I understand why you might want to turn it off while setting up a new target, but it can be done while keeping it on.
propbeanie
04-02-24, 01:23 PM
One TDC aspect a person has to keep in mind is to hit each button twice for the range and/or speed etc... once to make certain it is selected, and a 2nd time to send the data...
KaleunMarco
04-02-24, 05:31 PM
But you can adjust those while the PK is on, and the TDC keeps updating the gyro angle based on the new inputs.
I understand why you might want to turn it off while setting up a new target, but it can be done while keeping it on.
the PK does not update all of the inputs.
i've seen it in action or, should i say, bad action.:doh:
i've experienced tracking a ship from say, 10,000 yds, with the PK.
when the distance to target dial reaches my firing point and i fire, the torpedos track nowhere near the track they are supposed to follow, they track far behind the current track. this is easy to see early in the war when using Mk14's. if i react fast enough, i can return to the scope, disengage the PK, re-sight my target, lock the firing solution into the TDC/torpedo system, fire the next fish, and then i get a hit.
That sounds quite wrong to how I have always used it.
Set up the TDC with your initial bearing, range, speed, and AoB (target course). Run the PK. Check the target's actual location against where the PK thinks it should be, update the data, and keep watching. Make corrections as needed. Fire when appropriate, then switch off the PK or switch to a different target and input needed data.
This method also seems more in line with what I have seen of actual usage from books.
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