Wet christmas

[Skybird]

Christmas still could get interesting for me. I live in the vicinity of one major and three minor waterways, 1400-4000m away in straight lines. And this is how it looks over here in the South-Eastern outskirts of my hometown. Though not yet as desastrous as during the heavy rain desaster 2014 when most of the total city drowned due to three supercells meeting over the city - and then stopped moving. Its raining over here mostly mildly but constantly since ten days, and more is predicted to come. Driving to my parents on ebike yesterday evening was with gusts of 60-70 km/h in the face, however.

The area some of you may remember from one of my videos ("Essen holen"), east along the river Werse through that idyllic little forest that loked so harmless and tame with meadows near that small river - its all a huge lake now, what was a small river 5-10m wide and shallow, now has swallowed holiday houses, meadows, acres, and in parts is over 3 m deep and in parts reaches hundreds of meters into the neighbouring land. Thankfully between there and my place flows the Dortmund-Ems-Channel, deep wide, fast and steady, washing away much of that eastern flood and transporting it north before it could reach my part of the city. Water has strange ways at times...

Images from the Westfälische Nachrichten. On bike its just a very few minutes to get to these places. The rivers in these images all flow further towards Münster, passing my neighbourhood at just a few hundred meters away.



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Water levels are still rising. Every centimeter now counts...

[Dargo]

Same here in the Netherlands. There is a lot of water in streams, ditches and rivers. In the major rivers the peak of the high water has yet to come, it is expected that the water in the rivers Rhine, Waal and IJssel will rise another two meters during the holidays to about 3.5 to 4 meters above normal. This is mainly because there has also been persistent rainfall in Germany in recent weeks. The Rijn and IJssel Water Board expects the water in the Rhine and IJssel to rise at least another two meters. The highest water level is now expected on December 28 when the water in the Rhine at Lobith will rise to almost 15 meters above Amsterdam Ordnance Datum (NAP). The water boards constantly check the condition of the dikes throughout the Netherlands along the rivers in more and more places high water causes inconvenience, but that is all so far we are prepared for this.

[Skybird]

First dike near Hamm (at the river Lippe) has been perforated, water is freely flushing through a widening hole. Throughout the Ruhr industrial area, other dikes are in critical conditons, too. The rivers Ems, Aa and Leine in outskirts of and near my hometown Münster see their levels climbing a centimeter every two to three hours. The Werse is a widenign lake over here. Warendorf 20km east of me has been flooded, Telgte 10 km is on the brink of gettign flooded, two district areas on the south-eastern rim of my hometown that are less than 3 km from my position are to 50% under water, over 1m deep they say.



Not 2014 again, please... :doh: Rain is coming for the rest of the week, just maybe not the ammounts anymore that we had the past days. Since the desaster 2014, the city undertook several construction projects to better manage and protect against floodings. Could be that in the coming hours or the next 2-3 days they will be brought to their first test.

[Dargo]

See that the German flood protection is based on Dutch ideas to give more space for rivers natural floodplains that they buffer the course of a flood wave because they store and retain water temporarily so that those areas absorb and retain floodwaters. I am sure all those project will stand the test, we do this for centuries our knowledge is used we spend billions every year to upkeep the dikes, reclamation of natural retention areas, controlled flood retention through flood polders and flood retention basins, and elimination of vulnerabilities.

[mapuc]

It's hard for me to comprehend the magnitude of this. Guess you has to be there to understand the way Nature shows it's face.

Only thing I can say is Be careful, take care.

Markus

[Skybird]

The problem is that we have ongoing rain for days and weeks now. Novembre, Decembre. The soil is incapable to take in any more water, thats why it does not drip down vertically into the soil, but spills horizontally. The upper layers of the ground cannot store any more water anymore - sicne days already, if not weeks.

Theoretically our deep water sweet water reservoirs can use these floods, they have been terribly exhausted over the past 3, 4 years's hot and dry summers and way too little rain over the year. But it takes weeks until rain on the surface reaches these deep layers in the ground now.

Two hundred meters in straight line away from where I live, they have build a dike along the small Aa that runs parrallel to a main taffic road and that got completely drowned 9 years ago, the the river bed was denaturated and new bends and turns got added and reservoire areas added and a pump station got build, connected to the drain. Usually its a small "river" just 1-2 meters wide and so shallow that a Dachshound can stand in it without needing to swim. Its a joke of a river here at this point. Now it is a huge lake, over two meters deep, and some dozen meters wide, and close to the top of the dike's upper rim. It balances there since days. At the current rate of raining, if the dike holds, we will get away, but a bit more intensity in the rain could spell desaster within a few hours. Also, its the sewage that may get overloaded, what drowned my district 9 years ago was not only the water falling down on us (240 l per sqm in two hours), but worse was the water that rose from below our feet and came from the sewage and drains.

Currently no rain. Hope it stays that way. Orkan Zoltan is on his way out, but before he left he really had a party. And its 10-11°C, so no chance that it turns into snow.

The squirrels also are not happy...

[Buddahaid]

Hoping for the best. Stay safe.

[Dargo]

Same here and we lower than you so getting all your water and same wet months. Better get used to it, this will not change in the near future. Keep your feet up :D and stay safe

[Reece]

Flooding here in the Eastern states of Australia is rather severe, you've probably seen it on TV, and bush fires in the Western parts of Australia are a concern too!! :hmmm: I would assume global warming to blame. :k_confused:I'd rather think this is somehow Putin's fault. :timeout:

[Ostfriese]

It's hard for me to comprehend the magnitude of this. Guess you has to be there to understand the way Nature shows it's face.

Only thing I can say is Be careful, take care.

Markus


It's actually not THAT bad. Floods like these are not uncommon in December, and in my area most of the flooded areas are actually flood zones, and they become flooded usually once per year anyway. It looks far more dramatic than it actually is. A few people will have their basements flooded, and a lot of roads and bicycle paths will be blocked for some time, but that will be it.



However, due to the dry summers the soil has dried out, and a layer from about 60cm below ground to 150cm below ground (2 - 5 feet) is too dry to quickly absorb water from above. That means that a lot of the water on the surface can only recede slower than usual - which in turn makes the rainfall more problematic than usual.

[Skybird]

It stopped raining! :yeah:Chances are it stays that way for coming 48 hours

[Jimbuna]

Having lived in Holland I can appreciate what it must be like but Germany?

Stay safe everyone.

[Skybird]

Having lived in Holland I can appreciate what it must be like but Germany?

Stay safe everyone.
In the northwest of Germany, comparable to Netherlands. Flat and open. Farmland. When you cross the border into Holland all you notice is that the bicycle infrastructure suddenly is much better. :)

[Jimbuna]

In the northwest of Germany, comparable to Netherlands. Flat and open. Farmland. When you cross the border into Holland all you notice is that the bicycle infrastructure suddenly is much better. :)

Ah, okay, thanks for that and the humour at the end was not lost on me :)

[Skybird]

Life is absurd. This is at the river Ruhr, near Essen.

https://img.welt.de/img/debatte/kommentare/mobile249237882/5160248907-ci3x2l-w1600/GERMANY-WEATHER-WINTER-FLOOD.jpg

[Dargo]

All hands on deck at Dutch water boards, but dikes are safe
High water levels in several rivers in the Netherlands will continue to cause inconvenience in the coming days. Especially along the river IJssel problems are expected. Near Deventer, the water level of that river is rising faster than expected, the water is rising at one centimetre per hour, which is extremely hard. Tomorrow the water is expected to reach the critical point of 6.30 meters above NAP, after which the water will run over the quay wall. Then a road between the IJssel and the city centre will also flood. This has already been partially closed as a precautionary measure to place a dam of sandbags there to protect the old city centre. This will raise the quay about 30 centimetres. In a few places along the IJssel, the high water is coming under the dikes. These quagmires are common during high water, but do require measures, because otherwise a water corridor under the dike may develop. Back pressure is created by means of sandbags.

https://i.postimg.cc/B6x3CNzr/ijsselzutphen.jpg

The effects of the heavy rainfall are also clearly visible in Drenthe. The canals and ditches in Overijssel are completely full and according to spokesman Herald van Gerner of Waterschap Drents Overijsselse Delta, "not a drop more can be added." The pumping stations are all running at full power, but still it cannot be prevented that some meadows are flooded. Despite the high water, safety is nowhere in question, reports the Union of Water Boards. "The dikes are in order. We don't see any problems there," said spokesman Jurjen Jongepier. "But that does not mean there is no nuisance in various places," he says. The water boards continue to collect and pump away as much water as possible. "But the water system and the soil are saturated. So when more water comes in, you can't get rid of it in the ground, in the ditches or in a river because those are already full. So then it's really searching for where you can still get rid of it."

The Rivierenland Water Board, whose responsibilities include the Betuwe region, also notices seepage. "The high river levels are pushing up groundwater. About a third of the water we pump out is seepage water. On top of that, the Betuwe is like a bathtub between the rivers. Near Tiel, the water level of the Waal is about four meters higher than the dry inner dike area."

https://i.postimg.cc/kMzNSsCJ/markdalbreda.jpg

Eleven water boards have "scaled up. Especially in the east, extra people and resources were deployed. Water levels have been measured around the Regge, Dinkel and Vecht rivers that occur once every ten years. The water boards continue to work day and night to channel the water and drain it as quickly as possible. On Thursday, a high water peak of about 14.70 meters above sea level is expected at Lobith. This will move across the rivers through the Netherlands in the following days.

Rain is also predicted for the next few days. "It then depends on how much you have been able to pump out in the interim whether that will cause problems again," said Jongepier. "We take into account that the water levels will rise some more and the rivers will widen in places." The IJsselmeer, also called "the national rain barrel" by water managers, is so full that extra water is now being drained into the Wadden Sea, via the locks in the Afsluitdijk. Incidentally, Lisanne Verheijen, spokesperson for Rijkswaterstaat, stresses that water safety in the Netherlands has not been compromised. "This kind of high water occurs more often in winter - that's why we have floodplains."

[Dargo]

There have been bigger problems in Germany in recent days. In the town of Rodenberg, in the state of Lower Saxony, residents were awakened by sirens and volunteers from the municipality during the night from Saturday to Sunday, as the water began to burst its banks. In Leer, near Winschoten, Groningen, hundreds of emergency workers were busy with sandbags to stabilize a dike on Boxing Day. The dike is "like pudding," a fire department spokesman told German news channel Tagesschau (https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/wetter-regen-hochwasser-102.html), though the situation is now under control, according to authorities. Residents have been asked to prepare for possible evacuation, however. Residents in some other villages in the region have already been evacuated.

News medium ARD reports that authorities in Lower Saxony fear dike breaches and further flooding in more places. Even in Germany, the worst is probably not over yet: in the coming days, most weather agencies are again predicting a lot of rain. Some of this will flow back into the Netherlands via Germany, including via the Rhine. Only around New Year's, the Department of Public Works expects a visible drop in water levels in most rivers. The high water probably peaks sometime between Wednesday afternoon and Thursday evening.

[Skybird]

One of the critical hotspots in Germany: the Okertal dam near Braunschweig. According to the company, its filled to "103%", by tendency still filling up. They now opened all emergency valves to release not the maximum of 16 qubic meters per second, bit 30 qubic meters. Braunschweig below the dam thus expects a floodwave, but nobody can excactly say how serious it will be. The water is near the upper rim, threatening to simply swap over. Throughout Germany, falling water levels are expected not before some more days have passed even if it would stop to rain (and it stopped only in parts of the country, not everywhere), because the ground is fully soaked up.



https://img.welt.de/img/vermischtes/mobile249232602/2650241707-ci3x2l-w1600/Hochwasser-in-Niedersachsen.jpg


Did a bike tour this afternoon, got mblocked by water at three route directions and where I epxected it to be after the experience nine years ago, to my surprise in all three areas the wate reached farther anbd thje barriers began earlier than 9 years ago, this came really unexpected.



BTW, I'm fine so no worries, all under control right in my place and area. Münster is not in the headlines, but its outskirts and satellite villages are affected, especially in the south-east. One of these villages is off the electric grid since several days and now is totally under water. In the bike video I mentioned, where the ride is along the river Werse through the forest, in ports I would now drive in 1.5-2 meter deep water if doing the same tour again. The whole forest has disappeared. :o The Dortmund Ems channel is filled up to the upper rim, I have never seen that in 23 years I live here.

[Moonlight]

We had the same thing happening in England of 2010 I think it was, it turned out it was because of not dredging the waterways, rivers and canals are an important infrastructure that has to keep being dredged whether you want to do it or not, politicians don't realise this until something like floods happen.

Have your politicians been diverting money for dredging the waterways elsewhere or have you never done any?, from what I've seen in this thread it looks like those politicians of yours need to take most of the blame for these floods in Germany.

[Dargo]

In the Netherlands we started to live with water more than 1000 years ago. We've built the country from a water democracy, dating back to the 1100s, when we elected our first water regulator. We had water experts before we were a Kingdom, and now we have a King who is a global-respected water leader. And living with water is our culture. The history of the Netherlands is inextricably linked with water. The Netherlands has an international reputation for innovation, integrated and inclusive solutions that protect people and infrastructure from flooding prevent water scarcity and, ensure supplies of clean and safe water.

The Greek geographer Pytheas noted of the Low Countries, as he passed them on his way to Heligoland c. 325 BCE, that "more people died in the struggle against water than in the struggle against men". Roman author Pliny, of the 1st century, wrote something similar in his Natural History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_control_in_the_Netherlands

Water is not political, never was never will be for the Dutch dredging the waterways is not the solution you have to build dikes higher, but that means they take up so much space you end up living on the dike our water committees plan for 100 years ahead instead of building higher dikes we allow the river periodic to flood of indefensible lands in such regions residents have been removed to higher ground, some of which has been raised above anticipated flood levels.

[Skybird]

I do not know how them politicians and administrators manage dredging, but I see it being done sometimes here in the "Rieselfelder", which all are wet fields and pools of water.
However, that is a single observation only, and I know that the policy of getting dry dead wood out of the forest is, thanks to the Greens, not practiced. The green eco-motto is "Leave nature to herself, she is such a good mother", and that is the reason why by German standards some of the wildfires we had in recent years spread with speeds compatible for racing on the Nordschleife... Same with bark beetles, the infected cut trees stay where they are and the bug's breed can spread from them unhindered.
Montana had a big flames inferno in I think the late 80s as well, Jared Diamond wrote about it in "Collapse", a whole chapter, and I think back then they made the same mistake then, not getting dead wood out of the forest. So, i would not be surprised if dredging is not done much across the country even if they do it in the Rieselfelder. But I do not know for certain. Reason certainly commands that it is being done regularly.

[Dargo]

Rieselfelder a floating field is a large water basin for settling sediment dissolved in sewage or process water. Flow fields were often constructed to serve potato starch, strawboard or sugar mills. After wastewater treatment plants became mandatory, abandoned floodplains have often been taken over by nature. Nothing to do with water management

[Dargo]

Dike grave of Water Board Rijn & IJssel Hein Pieper "The amount of rain we now have to cope with was foreseen for 2030. To deal with that, the smaller inland waters need much more nature. Places where, like here, we can play with extremely high water." Much more has already been done along the major rivers. After extremely high water in the 1990s, the mega-project "Room for the River" was started in 2000. Along the IJssel, Waal, Nederrijn and Lek rivers, the floodplains have since been designed in such a way that the rivers can sometimes step outside their banks for hundreds of meters without too much inconvenience to local residents.

These days, the major rivers can handle much higher water levels. 'Right now, 8 million litres of water per second enter our country at Lobith,' says Pieper. 'Our dikes can handle 16 million litres, and if necessary 16.5. You can see from the high-water problems now occurring in Germany that we really have a head start.'

[Ostfriese]

I know that the policy of getting dry dead wood out of the forest is, thanks to the Greens, not practiced.


That's not even remotely true. Dry dead wood is being removed within the capabilities of the "Landesforsten" (the state forest agency), and as these agencies work on state level and not on federal level it's the respective state governments who decide how much the Landesforstens are funded. They are notoriously underbudgeted nationwide - no single party can be blamed alone here.

[Skybird]

The flood situation in my region has eased in the last few days, but in Lower Saxony, which lies further downstream on the rivers, there is a state of emergency, dykes have broken in several places, and in many more places they are threatening to break, they are completely soaked. The media describe the state as "completely flooded".



Now, however, continuous rain has started again and the river levels are rising again in my region. Nothing is seeping away any more, the ground is so full, it couldn't be fuller. Satellite settlements in the south-east of Münster are back on high alert and the water is rising again, after falling slightly in the last few days, by around a third (still well above normal).


Some say the worst is yet to come.

[Ostfriese]

The flood situation in my region has eased in the last few days, but in Lower Saxony, which lies further downstream on the rivers, there is a state of emergency, dykes have broken in several places, and in many more places they are threatening to break, they are completely soaked. The media describe the state as "completely flooded".


That's media exaggeration for you. I live in Lower Saxony, at least two of the regions mentioned by the media quite often are quite close to me (Heidekreis and Celle).

Yes, there are floods, and dykes are soaked (which is nothing unusual - that's one part of their "job"), and some people still have water in their basements, but it's far away from "completely flooded". I was perfectly able to drive through the entire county of Celle today.

[Skybird]

I know Meppen and Lingen, and there it was/is anything but harmless. Media exaggeration it may be when they write the "whole state is under water". But there are big zones where the situation is very critical. Some dikes have broken for sure. And what we had up rivers here in Northrhine Westphalia, soon get down to them - and it was more water in this region around Münster than during the heavy rain flooding 2014 - and that one was spectacular. When a week ago I did a little bike tour aorund the town in the East, the water blocked me off my planned courses earlier than nine year ago. Which surprised me.



Two or three dikes also have been intentionally broken up beyond preset plans, to flood fields and acres to save towns and villages elsewhere.



I wonder what such floods mean for agrucluterla famrland? I mean its not all clear so-called "green" water, but "grey" water consisting of sewage water and industrial waste water as well, also the fertile sediment layers get washed away, but to what degrees?

[Dargo]

Extra measures are being taken against high water in several places in the Netherlands. Sandbags have been laid down in Aldeboarn (Friesland) and Hoorn to protect houses. Several windmills and pumping stations are running at full speed to pump water away. In Hoorn, two hundred sandbags were placed today on Visserseiland, the municipality's artificial peninsula. Tuesday night residents there were again confronted with high water that almost reached homes. Residents then laid down sandbags themselves to protect their homes. The peak of the high water is expected tomorrow or the day after. In Aldeboarn this afternoon 1200 sandbags were laid down over a length of 240 meters. The water in the river Boarn is almost to the brink, writes Omroep Fryslân.

Pumping stations are running at full capacity to pump the water away. The Steam Woudagemaal (The largest functioning steam pumping station in the world dates back to 1920 and has been a UNESCO World Heritage Site since 1998.) in Lemmer has also been on again since yesterday. Four floodgates in the De Lege Wâlden area near Joure have been closed. An extra pump has also been deployed to pump water out of this area. The water board still has fourteen Frisian polders that can be used as water storage. Tomorrow it will be decided whether these will be deployed. That would give room for seven million cubic meters of water.

Polder mill Eolus near Den Ham has been turning daily since the end of October to keep the polder on the right level. Excess water is thus drained from the Fransumerpolder towards the Aduarderdiep. "This doesn't happen very often," miller Rob Hoving tells RTV Noord. "There is also a pumping station on this polder, which just can't handle it. That's why I jump in with the mill. For us as millers, this is only fun. The mill is working well, and I love it." In Megen (North Brabant), Water Board Aa and Maas is working to remove a large badger sett in the Maas dike. The animal has dug a corridor of about ten meters. Because of the high tide, this is risky. Because of the holes, the dike can be damaged or even collapse if water hits it.

"Not only Megen has a problem then. The water then flows from here to Den Bosch," dike manager Sjaak Daverveld tells Omroep Brabant. In Eindhoven, a cemetery will be closed for the next few days because of flooding. Rainwater can no longer flow away from the cemetery in the Woensel district. Also, on other cemeteries in the city there is a lot of water, warns the municipality. Some paths are badly passable.

In Maastricht, a spillway near the Stuwweg has been damaged. As a result, water is flowing into the Meuse at an accelerated rate. Several houseboats have been evacuated. The Limburg Water Board has taken several measures. For example, the valves under the barriers have been closed. Normally, these pipes provide drainage for streams flowing into the Meuse. Closing the valves prevents water from the Meuse flowing back into the streams and causing nuisance there. To get the water from the streams flowing to the Meuse there anyway, pumps have been placed in several places. Additional inspections of the dikes have been made, but these have not revealed any peculiarities. According to current measurements by the Department of Public Works, the highest level in the Meuse near Maastricht is expected at 10 a.m. tomorrow morning.

[Dargo]

I wonder what such floods mean for agrucluterla famrland? I mean its not all clear so-called "green" water, but "grey" water consisting of sewage water and industrial waste water as well, also the fertile sediment layers get washed away, but to what degrees?In the Netherlands the potato and sugar beet fields that had already much rain now on some places getting flooded meaning farmers need to harvest with special equipment (track instead of wheel harvest equipment) that means harvest costing much more and with all that water 40% is lost. Flooding does not mean always a bad thing. Flooding a field to control nematodes, so-called inundation, depletes the soil of oxygen and kills the nematodes. This is necessary because some worms are harmful to crops such as potatoes and onions. When a field is infested, it costs a farmer thousands of dollars in damage. The Vecht water flows through calcareous rock in Germany, absorbing a lot of lime. That lime is deposited again on our sandy soils, which are poorly buffered against acidification." Thus, the German lime in the eastern Netherlands creates unique conditions in which very specific plants thrive, such as stone carnation and yellow wallow. It all depends on what the soil composition is, how the groundwater flows and what kind of nature occurs there. And especially: how clean that river water is.

[Skybird]

What is with the top soil layer, what in German is called "Krume" or "Ackerkrume" - this layer of fine fertile earth that is the basis of nutrients and minerals and is housing the microbiome regenerating the field after harvest? When a soil erodes due to desertification and dryness, the wind blows this fine dirt away, what is left then is practically unusable for farming purposes again. What amount of damage does water do to this Krume layer? Isnt it this layer that its all about and what separates good famrming ground from bad one?


I am no farmer, thats why I ask.



And you said the tractors will drive n ot on wheels, but tracks. But isnt that also coming at a cost, an increased densification of the ground?

[Dargo]

What is with the top soil layer, what in German is called "Krume" or "Ackerkrume" - this layer of fine fertile earth that is the basis of nutrients and minerals and is housing the microbiome regenerating the field after harvest? When a soil erodes due to desertification and dryness, the wind blows this fine dirt away, what is left then is practically unusable for farming purposes again. What amount of damage does water do to this Krume layer? Isnt it this layer that its all about and what separates good famrming ground from bad one?


I am no farmer, thats why I ask.



And you said the tractors will drive n ot on wheels, but tracks. But isnt that also coming at a cost, an increased densification of the ground?All depends on how clean that water is if it has too much fertilizer, medicine, PFAS etc it will do more harm than good rivers are full of sediment that stays behind that was always good soil for farmers. Farmers also use ditch water that is also river water. The kind of tractor has a different cost in money but for the soil not that will be prepared before seeding same as with wheel or track use.