Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2 [Archive] - Page 15

Skybird

05-24-24, 05:06 PM

We in the West frequently mention the failure of Ukraine's counteroffensive, but it is important to bear in mind that the Russian offensives before and after it have also been substantial failures. Putin is told or realizes that now, Duh! after 2 years. Russia experience the cost of this war, do not think it can go on without the possibility that the situation in Russia can go wrong, the problems are piling up. The more problems, the more Putin fears system failure. The invasion of Ukraine by Russia has been a colossal failure, and its opportunities for strategic victories are dwindling. As time passes, Russia's situation is likely to deteriorate, Ukraine's best strategy is to bide its time and wait for Russia to weaken further.

About Sara Wagenknecht or the AFD we in the Netherlands after election have as biggest party that rather would stop support for Ukraine, but it can not rule alone, so the other parties in this new coalition have demanded that this support must go on in the same manner and parliament has voted in majority for this think the same goes in Germany there is always a coalition needed to govern Putin tries sure but do not see any real division.You see the "division" indirectly in the ammount fo aid given. Not enough aid, that is. When Germany aksed the others to give more air dfences wihle itself just deciding to give another Patriot and today another Iris T - nobody answered the call in Europe.

Its not enough to win the war for Ukraine, no matter what you argue. Its noth enough. Not now, not in the future. And every week we tlak, Ukraine is more destroyed and is worse off.

Russia must not take ground. It just must continue destroying Ukraine economy, energy, infrastructure. The next winter will come.

Not. Enough. Aid. Too much to die, too little to live or win. Die slowly - that seems to be the idea behind Western aid amounts.

mapuc

05-24-24, 05:27 PM

Rockstar

05-24-24, 06:11 PM

"Not. Enough. Aid. Too much to die, too little to live or win. Die slowly - that seems to be the idea behind Western aid amounts."

In a comment from Ukraine Matters the owner wrote:

It is more and more clear the Russian is heading for disaster-It looks like their offensive in May/June is going to fail.

So if this is correct the Ukrainians is doing it very well for a military who isn't getting enough weapon and ammo aid from the west and which is coming late to Ukraine.

Markus

They’re getting enough.

But I was getting really tired of my country getting blamed for someone else’s failure because we didn’t ‘hand out or give enough’ That ticks me off to end especially from another country who for dang near thirty years since their independence didn’t do a damn thing to bolster their own defense and allowed themselves to get steam rolled by some little wannabe Napoleon and his third rate army of convicts, drug addicts and drunks.

Hopefully when it’s all said and done they can at least be thankful for the assistance they did get and finally remove their head of their arse and start taking their own national defense a helluva lot more serious so it doesn’t happen again.

Skybird

05-25-24, 06:56 AM

No, they dont get enough. By factors. Their economy, infrastructure, cities, energy production gets day-for day degraded, and they lack the needed military support to ever enforce and end to the wra ion their terms and defeat Russia. 80% of their energy perocution or even alkready more, is now down. Most of that is beyond repair. The EU must help with massive exports of electricty across the border. Remember - in the first year, Ukraine was sitll offering to experrt electricity into the EU.

They cannot win this way. They cannot reconquer the occupied territories this way. They even cannot make Russia stop air raiding their cities and critical infrastructure.

I say it again, and I said it before: Russia must not take more territory to win the war. That they try, has different reasons. They can win by simply destroying Ukraine piece by piece until nothing is left of it that can independently survive anymore. That way they also drive up the costs for Europe post-war.

The "offensive" at Charkiv very well acchieved something: in 2 weeks they took 200 sqkm of territory, pushing the frontline so close to Charkiv that they are just a few kilometers away from bringing all of Charkiv into range of their 25km-reaching conventional tube artillery. Go figure. And another 50,000 of fresh Russian reserves in that region that so far have not participated in the drive, are standing ready just behind the border. Their numbers get constantly boosted up. Ukrian miust welaen frontline defences elsewhere to react to the situation at Charkiv. That's also a Russian acchievement: they force Ukraine to give up already fragile balances.

Ukrainian artillery officers say they still are being outgunned by a ratio of 1:5, although the American ammo supplies have reached the frontlines.

Dargo

05-25-24, 07:08 AM

Ukrainian forces have regained control of areas north of Kharkiv that were taken by the Russian military earlier this month.The situation is generally under control and our soldiers inflict significant losses on the occupying forces. Our soldiers managed to take over combat control of the border area where the Russian occupiers entered.

Skybird

05-25-24, 07:27 AM

^ Kyiv has reported the heaviest losses of the entire war, counted per day(s) for its own armed forces in the last 2 - 2.5 weeks - a consequence of the Russian advance in Kharkiv. Whether the situation is really as stable as Zelensky makes it out to be remains to be seen. At the moment, the Russians are still advancing, slowly but persistently.

And worse, they continue to attrite the limited Ukrainian forces. Their own higher losses are not relevant. Kyiv can afford its losses much less than the Russians can afford theirs.

mapuc

05-25-24, 09:10 AM

Whether they are getting enough ammo supply or not I can't say, what I can say is:

They are doing it fine with what they have and they need less ammo to hit targets than Russia does.

Thinking Russia need perhaps 5-7 shells to hit a target, while Ukraine may need 1-2 shells to hit a target, so this ratio 1:5 must mean nothing.

Except Russia is producing shells a lot. and they get ammo from NK, CHN and Iran.

The major problem is the boots on the ground-Ukraine does not have a lot of these while Russia has a few more to use in the war.

Markus

mapuc

05-25-24, 09:28 AM

Here is Denys with his latest update and it shows Ukraine is using their weapons/ammo very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b71-AB3W178&ab_channel=DenysDavydov

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D941cFFyNCw&ab_channel=Military%26History

Markus

Dargo

05-25-24, 03:08 PM

The Small Diameter Bomb (SDB) precision-guided glide bomb are being fitted on the Ukraine MIG 29. This is quite possibly one of the most significant upgrades Ukrainian Fulcrums have received. SDBs are capable, plentiful, and more importantly, cheap. Flyaway cost for an SDB is $36,000. That’s less than a quarter of a GMLRS rocket, it’s roughly 10% of a M982 Excalibur. The Fulcrum is to be fitted with a pair of BRU-61 Carriage Systems, allowing it to carry up to 8 SDBs. Ukrainian fighters can now salvo off up to 8 SDBs at Russian targets from dozens of miles behind the front. As Russian long range air defences continue to be attrited by ATACMS strikes, the ability to conduct the SDB attacks will only grow.

https://i.postimg.cc/FzwN1zPK/sdb.jpg

mapuc

05-25-24, 03:42 PM

^ Good news indeed.

Soon the air over Ukraine will be filled with F16 and French fighter jets.

Markus

Dargo

05-25-24, 05:08 PM

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/05/24/fsb-launches-sweeping-purge-of-military-elites-with-kremlins-approval-a85213The purge of top officers is the result of infighting between the FSB and the military over the failure to capture Kyiv and competition for defence funds.

The recent arrests of five top Russian military officers are likely just the first of dozens of military figures who will be jailed in a sweeping purge by the security services, Russian government officials and sources close to the Kremlin and the Defense Ministry told The Moscow Times. Ostensibly an effort to stamp out military corruption, the Federal Security Service (FSB) is going after high-ranking generals in hopes of pinning the blame for the botched 2022 invasion of Ukraine on the military’s top brass and taking control of the distribution of the army’s vast budget — all with the Kremlin’s tacit approval.

But the arrests risk throwing the army into disorder at a time when Moscow is seeking to capitalize on Kyiv’s weapons shortages and press further into Ukrainian territory. All of The Moscow Times’ sources requested anonymity in order to discuss a sensitive matter involving both the military and the FSB. “There is a fierce cleanup underway. The FSB is mopping up [former Defense Minister Sergei] Shoigu's team. It’s to be expected. This kind of operation can only be carried out with approval at the very top [of the country's leadership],” a source close to the Kremlin told The Moscow Times. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/05/24/fsb-launches-sweeping-purge-of-military-elites-with-kremlins-approval-a85213

Kleptocracy at its best, LOL :D
“The FSB’s task, at most, is to install its own people and control the tastiest things: those areas where there are big budgets,” a second acting government official told The Moscow Times. When asked whether the purges could hinder the war effort by throwing the military leadership into disarray at a time when Russia is seeking to take advantage of Kyiv’s munitions shortages, the source said: “Do you really think that any of them [the FSB] at this moment are worried about the success of the special operation?”

Skybird

05-25-24, 05:21 PM

Russian jamming leaves some high-tech U.S. weapons ineffective in Ukraine
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/24/russia-jamming-us-weapons-ukraine/

mapuc

05-25-24, 05:21 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDF2UNNxiy4&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Rockstar

05-25-24, 05:26 PM

It’s been my position the plan is the long term goal of exhausting Russian military, economic and political influence. Looking at the latest divisive complaints online how the west particularly the U.S. isn’t allowing Ukraine to use donated weapons to strike inside Russia is in my opinion in keeping with that long term plan.

The way I see it if we allowed it, it could revive what’s left of any Russian morale, sense of purpose and determination to press on and continue their invasion. As it stands they are being stomped on hard by the Ukrainian military and severely demoralized. It’s only a matter of time.

It’s getting close to another coup in Russia because of it.

But don’t get wrong I still think the corruption in Ukraine is second only to Russia. They got a long way to go and much to prove before being invited to join NATO.. Also, they need to stop behaving like beggars and take their own national defence seriously so this kinda of sheet doesn’t happen again.

mapuc

05-25-24, 05:52 PM

mapuc

05-25-24, 05:59 PM

Russian jamming leaves some high-tech U.S. weapons ineffective in Ukraine
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/05/24/russia-jamming-us-weapons-ukraine/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YInh3JEuXA&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Rockstar

05-25-24, 06:08 PM

Puh what's up and down in all this info I get from you, from news source and YT videos ?

Is Ukraine heading for a showdown or is it Russia who's going to bite the dust ?

My hope is that Ukraine will fix this and win in the end.

However someone once wrote Putin would never accept losing face in Ukraine.

Markus

No news source, no links, just my opinion.

In a nutshell

Russia is losing
To launch strikes into its interior would as history has shown time and time again only serve to infuriate a public and army to press on.
Russian coup and retreat is IMO inevitable .
Ukraine has a lot of work ahead before it igets an invite to NATO

And last but not least stop blaming my country for all your woes

August

05-25-24, 08:49 PM

Also, they need to stop behaving like beggars and take their own national defence seriously so this kinda of sheet doesn’t happen again.

They beg no more than we did to the French and Dutch to help us in our revolution against England. The Ukrainians are fighting and dying in the defense of their nation. That's not serious enough for you Bud?

Skybird

05-26-24, 09:23 AM

Why Ukraine may have bombed that early warning over-the-horizon anti-ICBM radar in Armawir, Krasnodar.

https://www-bundesheer-at.translate.goog/aktuelles/detail/drei-fragen-zum-angriff-auf-das-russische-atomraketen-fruehwarnsystem-oberst-reisner-antwortet?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de

mapuc

05-26-24, 05:46 PM

It is said he who is asking for a ceasefire is the one who's in trouble on the battlefield

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Cl5qPmWR0&ab_channel=JakeBroe

Markus

mapuc

05-27-24, 04:33 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApGbHwQkq6Q&ab_channel=DenysDavydov

Markus

Dargo

05-27-24, 12:42 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjhmdIrZuQo

Dargo

05-27-24, 01:32 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=829nvzjbPPA

mapuc

05-27-24, 01:45 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVrXlXGYC_0&ab_channel=Military%26History

Markus

Rockstar

05-27-24, 02:27 PM

Shoigu’s removal, generals being arrested, counter strikes on Russian soil. Here I was told all this was supposed to be impossible without U.S. F16’s and ATACMS.

Russia is slowly withering away.

mapuc

05-27-24, 02:32 PM

Shoigu’s removal, generals being arrested, counter strikes on Russian soil. Here I was told all this was supposed to be impossible without U.S. F16’s and ATACMS.

Russia is slowly withering away.

Yes the Ukrainians are using their suicide drones in Russia.

With F16's and ATACMS the attack would be a lot easier and harder for Russia to stop. This is if the rockets and missiles are equip with anti-Jammer

Markus

mapuc

05-27-24, 02:50 PM

If you take the accuracy of the Russian shelling into account-The different isn't 3 to 1. but more likely ½ to 1.
(I could be wrong)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0IOuwxXpJE&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Edit
Is this number of dead and wounded Russian soldiers correct ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tTU3AKW4WY&ab_channel=UkraineMatters
End edit

Markus

Rockstar

05-27-24, 04:09 PM

Yes the Ukrainians are using their suicide drones in Russia.

With F16's and ATACMS the attack would be a lot easier and harder for Russia to stop. This is if the rockets and missiles are equip with anti-Jammer

Markus

There are no such things as game changing weapons. ATACMS are good but they’re not that good. If Ukraine started lobbing US delivered rockets it’s not very likely it would escalate into a nuclear war. But it could ignite a patriotic fervor in Russian ranks. As it is morale and determination is low so why ruin a good thing?

As for F16’s I wouldn’t expect very many because finding reliable pilots may be difficult. How many East German pilots did you see integrate into Federal Defence Forces of Germany? ZERO

mapuc

05-27-24, 04:28 PM

There are no such things as game changing weapons. ATACMS are good but they’re not that good. If Ukraine started lobbing US delivered rockets it’s not very likely it would escalate into a nuclear war. But it could ignite a patriotic fervor in Russian ranks. As it is morale and determination is low so why ruin a good thing?

As for F16’s I wouldn’t expect very many because finding reliable pilots may be difficult. How many East German pilots did you see integrate into Federal Defence Forces of Germany? ZERO

No not counted as gamechanger no. This was not what I meant by my post

They will be a huge assess to the Ukrainian groundforces.

The F16's will make life a little easier for the groundforces who has to deal with Glide bombs dropped from Russian fighter jets far behind the frontline. The Ukrainian pilot who is being trained is/has showing exceptionel skills in flying the F16(heard this from a Danish fighter pilot trainer)

The other weapons could make a different when attacking Russian soil.

Maybe it is due to fear among the NATO members, that a conflict between Russia and NATO could come very close, if NATO give Ukraine the green light.

Markus

Rockstar

05-27-24, 05:07 PM

mapuc

05-27-24, 05:34 PM

I don’t think reluctance to allow our weapons to be used on Russian soil is driven by fear. More to instilling in the Russian mind the fight is with Ukraine not the US or NATO as Lavrov keeps insisting, with intent to demoralize Russian soldiers. Step on Ukrainian soil you die, stay on your side you live.

Who knows Im just guessing

Also a lot of Ukraine’s inventory of fighter jets are in the process or have been improved to carry a lot of different western payloads that F16s carry.

We are all somehow guessing and most of us use different experts to strengthen this.

True, many of their MIG29's pylonton have been altered so they can carry weapon produced in the west. Only thing they haven't improved is the radar on the MIG29's and they is lacking medium to longrange air to air missiles, which will be part of the weapons on the F16.

Markus

Skybird

05-27-24, 06:01 PM

China is no doubt getting info on how Russia jams out Western intelligent ammunitions. This is worrying since the West and the US depend a lot on maintaining a technological suoeriroity adavantge to compensate for their inferior numbers. When I read that HIMARS now is being described as practically unusable anymore and the super-expensive Excalibur self-guiding shells for artillery are down to a hit rate of 10% and less, then this is a kind fo warfare that is economically not only extremely expensive, but also doe snot rais eoto miuch trust. I read also that ATACMS already saw their hit probability jammed down to less than 40%. And they are not that long is use alrerady. It also means that Ukraione miust increase the number of missile s used in a swarm attacks suffciently to see chnaces ot get some pof its ammous gettign nthorhgh the defences. And these ammos then get expleted faster and Ukraine runs out of them earlier.

We always only hear about the successes of Ukraine, if it has them. We never hear of how much the successes costed in investment, and how high Ukraine's losses were.

China really must learn a very lot from this war.

I also reayl wpudl like to know abotuz the abltiy of US forces to wage robust war in case of its hgih techn advanatge and stalleite dpeendecy turnign against it. I mean if all that networking ans high tech wizardy gets taken out of the equation. It would affect global logistics maintenance as well, of course, not just fighting ability.

Dumb ammuntiion in jigh numbers, and platforms not meant to be super complex in maintenance, have their ownc harms in war. I am a bit sceptical about these Western high tech primadonna systems.

In fact I am quite sceptical. In war you dont want exentric race horses. But robust farming work horses. It seems of the Western system delivered, the Bradley gets the balance very right. Robust amd fast like the German Marders, but delivering a significantly higher punch. But also beign reatively simple to maintaion, it seems, easier at least than the Abrams and Leopards-2. Soemtimes I red news on the Leopard-2s that gave the impression that maintaining the logistics network for spare parts for them is a nightmare for, Ukraine. Also, the wear and tear on them and the Abrams is much higher than was expected, both tanks do not like the terrain in Ukraine, were not designed for it, it kills their lower wheels and their gears quite fast, it gets reported. Especially the Germans find it difficult to keep up with the delivery of spare parts. The German industry is no longer set up to produce and deliver at this pace. - Lessons to be learned for the Eurppean NATO tank fleet. Amongst Europeans, the Lropards are the most used MBTs. And then this low rate of supply deliveries? Maybe the Polish anticipated this when they ordered tanks in Korea instead. Some months ago I red an analysis of a German insider somewhere who projected that as a concsequence of the ukriane war the German defence industry will lose shares on the global market due to customers becoming hesitent to buy certain german heavy weapons anymore. The German ability to guarantee supply with spare parts is in doubt. And this is during a situation when international deliveries of critical raw materials to Germany and its industry are not even seriously challenged or disrupted. How then would it be if their would be a crisis limting these dpeveries to and formGermany? The German navy in no way is able to protect shipping supply lines. Its overstretched, while havign dropped so low in numbers that it cannot even guarantee control, of the Baltic sea anymore where its main responmsibility should focus, in my opinion. But they just send another lonely frigate to the Chinese Sea for some stupid political symbolism...? Last time they did that, not long ago, they did not even dare to go through the Taiwan Strait. Them Ger,na navy's playground cannot be the other side of the plaent. It must not even be the North Atlantic, but it must mostly be the Baltic. Too low numbers for playing on a bigger playfield.

Rockstar

05-27-24, 06:09 PM

We are all somehow guessing and most of us use different experts to strengthen this.

True, many of their MIG29's pylonton have been altered so they can carry weapon produced in the west. Only thing they haven't improved is the radar on the MIG29's and they is lacking medium to longrange air to air missiles, which will be part of the weapons on the F16.

Markus

Sucks being them I guess, they had thirty years to improve the RADAR and their national defense. Also, like I said earlier I wouldn’t expect many, if any, F16’s because they most likely have very few qualified pilots. They will have to be very young men and women dedicated to defending the sovereignty of Ukraine and not take a shiny new F16 to the nearest Russian airbase. Hope they find them and get them trained.

mapuc

05-27-24, 06:42 PM

Sucks being them I guess, they had thirty years to improve the RADAR and their national defense. Also, like I said earlier I wouldn’t expect many, if any, F16’s because they most likely have very few qualified pilots. They will have to be very young men and women dedicated to defending the sovereignty of Ukraine and not take a shiny new F16 to the nearest Russian airbase. Hope they find them and get them trained.

Neither do I know the exact number of Ukrainians pilot who's being trained in flying the F16

More on this green light to use weapon and ammo against targets in Russia.
Each day yes even each hour Russia is sending artillery, rockets and missile from their side into Ukraine.

So I say Ukraine should have the right to destroy these weapons.

Markus

Rockstar

05-27-24, 06:56 PM

Neither do I know the exact number of Ukrainians pilot who's being trained in flying the F16

More on this green light to use weapon and ammo against targets in Russia.
Each day yes even each hour Russia is sending artillery, rockets and missile from their side into Ukraine.

So I say Ukraine should have the right to destroy these weapons.

Markus

They have that right and have exercised that right on more than one occasion. But as far as an all out barrage or surgical strike with western weapon systems on Russian soil goes, I don’t think it will be allowed to happen.

Look, a few f16’s or ATACMS on Russia soil doesn’t and will not win a war. What will when the war is good intel, leadership , will to fight and if what Zelensky said is true a 8 to 1 kill ratio.

mapuc

05-28-24, 10:43 AM

Never heard of the words - Low level sabotage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sRPvhSznNw&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

mapuc

05-28-24, 11:11 AM

They have that right and have exercised that right on more than one occasion. But as far as an all out barrage or surgical strike with western weapon systems on Russian soil goes, I don’t think it will be allowed to happen.

Look, a few f16’s or ATACMS on Russia soil doesn’t and will not win a war. What will when the war is good intel, leadership , will to fight and if what Zelensky said is true a 8 to 1 kill ratio.

https://ekstrabladet-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/krigogkatastrofer/stoltenberg-ukraine-har-ret-til-at-angribe-ind-i-rusland/10248995?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=da&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Markus

Dargo

05-28-24, 12:06 PM

https://ekstrabladet-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/krigogkatastrofer/stoltenberg-ukraine-har-ret-til-at-angribe-ind-i-rusland/10248995?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=da&_x_tr_pto=wapp

MarkusIf I read the trend with the European weapon systems, Ukraine will get the ok to use in Russian territory.

Rockstar

05-28-24, 01:13 PM

Do let us know when it actually happens.

mapuc

05-28-24, 01:27 PM

If I read the trend with the European weapon systems, Ukraine will get the ok to use in Russian territory.

What about Germany ? They seems very eager to prevent the war in escalating further.

Markus

Dargo

05-28-24, 03:08 PM

What about Germany ? They seems very eager to prevent the war in escalating further.

MarkusUkraine should have the right to take out Russian military installations with weapons from the West, even if those installations are on Russian territory. French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said so tonight at a joint press conference in Meseberg, Germany. “We support Ukraine, and we don't want escalation. Nothing has changed about that,” Macron said after being asked by a journalist about the issue that has caused fierce debate in recent weeks. Ukraine says it has to fight with one hand tied behind its back by not allowing weapons it gets from its allies to fire on Russian missile installations inside Russia, for example.

The United States in particular does not allow it to do so. But Macron made it clear that as far as he is concerned, that restriction is unnecessary. “How do you explain to the Ukrainians that they have to protect their cities from Russian missile attacks if at the same time we tell them, ‘You cannot hit the sites from where the missiles are launched’? We (Macron and Scholz, ed.) think we should allow them to neutralize military sites from which missiles are fired and from which Ukraine is attacked.” Macron also said that “other targets in Russia and civilian or other military sites in Russia” should still be excluded, however.

mapuc

05-28-24, 03:19 PM

In other words a kind of restricted allowance to hit certain targets from the border and xxx kilometer into Russia.

Markus

mapuc

05-28-24, 05:46 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qBi5w4W2ZY&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Skybird

05-29-24, 04:13 AM

Reece

05-29-24, 04:49 AM

Yeh it does kinda suck!! :k_confused:
Here's your weapons and ammo, just don't use them on Russians! :Kaleun_Mad:

Rockstar

05-29-24, 08:12 AM

Bild reports that a german Patriot was used to shot down 2 Hi8, 1 su34 and 1 su35 over Russian territory. Immediately Berlin and Washington telephoned extremely angry with Kyiv and warned to never do that again, else they would refuse to deliver further ammunitions.

It's clear if Biden and Bubble Olaf accept claimed red lines of Russia, they also have already accepted that Russia will. Win the war, since Russia will mark every aid as off limits that could really endanger its success.

Ukraine is screwed. By Russia - and by its false "friends".

First off Patriots systems are not Ukraine’s they’re ours I paid for them. The Patriot is a defense system with a maximum effective range of 99 miles depending on missile used. There is absolutely no way in hell we would ever permit the worlds most advanced systems get that close to the frontline just on the off chance they MIGHT have something to shoot at. They’d be reduced to a smoldering pile of junk.

Similar can be said of ATACMS unless Russians are stupid enough to place their supply depots and staging areas within range of ATACMS they will be of little use to anyone with or without Macrons blessing.

Obviously even bubble Olaf knows that.

Arguing over permission. Should be arguing over why would anyone be stupid enough to place those systems so close to the Russian border just to get in range of something that’s not there.

Skybird

05-29-24, 10:07 AM

Nonsense. These weapons are not lended, but given. The battery that shot down the four mentioned targets in Russina air space near Ukrainian border, was provided by Germany. But when Germany gave it to Ukraine, it was no longer ours (we paid for it - to you, but we handed them over, to them, so they are not ours anymore). These limitations and attempts to bind them their hands on their back, is serving the Rus sian interest.

And btw, the Suchois are carrying those missiles and cruise missiles that devastate ground targets in Ukraine, and civilian targets. They lob these missiles from the safety of Russian air space into Ukraine, claiming immunity that way - immunity that you want to grant them. Ukrainians die for this strange conception of Western smarties.

Thats quite cyncial what you say.

One of the three US-given Patriot batteries btw already has been significantly reduced by Russian attacks.

To cover Ukraine, so said a comment in German, they would need practically all patriot systems that are globally in existence - and 8x as many missiles for it as Raytheon produces in one year. THAT is how dire their situation is.

Nothing in the Western case for Ukraine adds together constructively, nothing. Its all minimalistic piecework - to give the West an alibi for claiming "at least we tried".

You cant fight and win a war with this idiotic mindset that constantly tries to not provoke an enemy who has proven to not not needing getting provoked at all to escalate whenever he likes, and whose war interest you allow to dictate to you your own submissive reactions, played out by his rule book.

To pay for the war in Ukraine now to make sure Ukraine wins, comes cheaper for all of us, Europe and the US alike, if we must not pay for the next war after that, devastating our own countries. That would cost us factors more.

Unfortunately this does not correct the unsatisfying situation of lakcing defence propuciton capacity, and wehre thes ear beignb adressed the chnage snoit becoming visiible before a couple of years more fork now on. But I have serious doubts that the need for a much higher military production really is understood in Western capitals, and especially in Berlin, but it is not just a German failure. The adapted ambitions and plans are still nothing but pathetic.

Which leads me to my conclusion that we in Europe will pay a terrible price for our indifferent handling of the ukraine crisis and the managing of our reaction to it. The consequences of our failures today will necessarily find us in the future. And we wont be able to avoid them.

mapuc

05-29-24, 10:22 AM

Yes the battery is given, what about the missiles aren't they on lend-basis and therefore still own by Germany and/or USA ??

I say they should be allowed to hit targets who is a threat to Ukraine, even if it means hitting targets miles inside Russia.

"First off Patriots systems are not Ukraine’s they’re ours I paid for them."

No doubt that there other American saying almost the same except they may be saying:
Let Ukraine use them against air targets inside Russia.

By the way-Denmark have given Ukraine full green light to use their weapons against targets in Russia-Which means Ukraine can use the Artillery given by Denmark against Russian targets inside Russia.

Markus

mapuc

05-29-24, 10:46 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-291LpV7x8&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Dargo

05-29-24, 12:18 PM

Every weapon system "given" to Ukraine are from stock, old not used or time to replace every "given" equipment is followed with an order in the US (The military aid money goes to the US not to Ukraine.) to refill stock. The result is that the economy in those states with these factories profit from it, sometimes it is cheaper to send equipment, munition to Ukraine than decommission it. Some factories in the US has so many orders that they have long delays in new deliveries the Netherlands has a patriot battery for repair in the US but when it will be ready is not known.

Sweden first country to provide radar planes to combat airstrikes RussiaUkraine is getting a major new weapons system to combat Russian airstrikes. As the first country, Sweden decided Wednesday to donate valuable radar aircraft to monitor its airspace. The aircraft will also support the operations of F-16s. The surprising Swedish move is a new sign that Ukraine's air force is on the verge of commissioning the F-16s promised by Western countries last year. Ukrainian Defence Minister Roestem Umerov said Tuesday that the air force could have the first fighter jets Â“very soon".

With the two Saab 340 aircraft, similar to the American AWACS (Airborne warning and control system) aircraft, the Ukrainians will soon be able to see and track Russian fighter jets up to 300 to 400 kilometres. This information can be quickly relayed to the acquired F-16s so they can proceed to the attack. The crew of the Saab 340s can also track Russian cruise missiles, helicopters, ballistic missiles and naval vessels over a wide area. 'With these aircraft, Ukraine gains a completely new tool against air and sea targets,' the Swedish Defence Ministry said in a statement. 'Ukraine's ability to identify and engage long-range targets will be strengthened as a result.'

Defence Minister Pal Jonson said the introduction of the radar aircraft, in conjunction with the F-16s, will help Ukraine considerably on the battlefield. Â“Right now, delivery will have the biggest impact on the Ukrainian air force,Â” Jonson said. Sweden will also supply modern U.S. Amraam anti-aircraft missiles to arm the F-16s. Furthermore, the Swedes are relinquishing all their armoured tracked vehicles to enable the arming of new Ukrainian brigades. The weapons are part of a new Swedish military aid package for the Ukrainian army, worth 1.1 billion euros. It is the largest Swedish arms delivery to date since the invasion.

Radar aircraft are indispensable in a large-scale war. These flying radar stations can provide a much better picture than ground radar of what the enemy is doing in the airspace or on the ground. The best-known system, the AWACS (by Boeing, with the saucer-shaped radar), has been used by the US in numerous wars. Thanks in part to advanced radar technology, the Swedish aircraft can monitor hundreds of targets at once. 'We can see almost anything,' Swedish officer Alexander ThÃ¶rner told the aviation magazine Flight Global about the missions of the Saab aircraft. 'If we know what we are looking for, we will find it 99 times out of 100: whether in the air or on the ground. It's really hard to hide from us.'

When Ukraine will get the planes, Sweden would not say. However, the Ukrainian Air Force should take into account that the Russians will do everything in their power to shoot the two Saab aircraft out of the sky as soon as possible. Because not only will it become more difficult for the Russian Air Force to operate in Ukrainian airspace when the Saab aircraft's missions begin, the operations of the F-16s will also become even more dangerous. However, Russia knows, because the radar aircraft's missions last about five hours, that they are an easy target for air defence systems such as the Russian S-400. Moscow has experienced this for itself in recent months. Ukraine managed to take down two Russian Beriev radar aircraft, which are much larger than the Swedish aircraft, in recent months. This was a big loss for the Russians. The air force would now have only six radar planes left. https://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/zweden-levert-als-eerste-land-radarvliegtuigen-om-luchtaanvallen-rusland-te-bestrijden~baf08454/

Countries which have already authorized Ukraine the usage of their delivered weapons systems against targets on Russian soil:
Finland
UK
The Netherlands
France
Poland
Czech Republic
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania
Sweden
Denmark
Canada

Skybird

05-29-24, 02:01 PM

what about the missiles aren't they on lend-basis and therefore still own by Germany and/or USA ??

You mean after the missile has been fired and destroyed its target the ukrainians have to give it back to Germany or the US? Hm. In pieces, or freshly re-assembled?

mapuc

05-29-24, 02:26 PM

You mean after the missile has been fired and destroyed its target the ukrainians have to give it back to Germany or the US? Hm. In pieces, or freshly re-assembled?

No think UK WWII

They had to return material who wasn't destroyed or damaged.

Guess the same goes here-Missiles who hasn't been used after the war-shall be returned to US.

Markus

Rockstar

05-29-24, 02:35 PM

All feel good words, I hope you will let us know when Ukraine uses those European game changing wonder weapons on or over Russian soil.

It’s one thing to argue over approval ratings it’s another to actually get them in a position to use. Go ahead move the Grippens, Patriot and HIMARS batteries closer to the front see how long they last.

Or you could make Russia come to you and make them do the work getting supplies to their forward positions.

Realize too these U.S. weapon system are designed to fulfill a specific role in modern U.S. warfare doctrine. Not outdated early 1900 trench warfare.

mapuc

05-29-24, 02:55 PM

mapuc

05-29-24, 03:31 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRLeeG2JIe8&ab_channel=UkraineMatters

Markus

Rockstar

05-29-24, 03:50 PM

They are being used as we speak…,

Markus

Which ones?

Dargo

05-29-24, 04:04 PM

They are being used as we speak.
Maybe the trench war in Ukraine is showing what we can expect in a modern WWIII.

MarkusA trench war means your strategy has failed, no military want that. You want to move forward, not force your armies on the front to dig trenches to protect themselves.

mapuc

05-29-24, 04:54 PM

@ Rockstar
Danish Artillery
British ground to ground missiles and rockets

@ Dargo.
I wrote maybe
If the defender is stronger than you, you'll fail in gaining land.

More about these Swedish AWACS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTc313UMOWU&ab_channel=Military%26History

Markus

Rockstar

05-29-24, 05:19 PM

@ Rockstar
Danish Artillery
British ground to ground missiles and rockets

@ Dargo.
I wrote maybe
If the defender is stronger than you, you'll fail in gaining land.

Markus

All of those systems are hitting Russians on Russian on soil, really?

mapuc

05-29-24, 05:27 PM

All of those hitting Russians on Russian on soil?

To be honest I was just guessing based on what I have read today in the news and in this thread.

I hope they are targeting primary targets around the Ukraine/Russian border.

This AWACS hasn't arrived yet and when it does it will, as said in the video, being used thrifty due to threat from the Russian longrange air to air missiles who can fly 400 km.

Markus

Rockstar

05-29-24, 05:40 PM

To be honest I was just guessing based on what I have read today in the news and in this thread.

I hope they are targeting primary targets around the Ukraine/Russian border.

This AWACS hasn't arrived yet and when it does it will, as said in the video, being used thrifty due to threat from the Russian longrange air to air missiles who can fly 400 km.

Markus

But like I said not in Russian territory, just empty words. I remember when those two morons Macron and Scholz trembled early on afraid to make Putin mad. The U.S., U.K. and Baltic States were arming, training Ukrainian soldiers since 2014.

I’ll bet you big money now that certain European leaders like those two sheep mentioned above smell victory, now they suddenly come out of the wood work wanting to be seen as heros, declaring approval for something they can’t provide to Ukraine anyway just to show how much they care.

mapuc

05-29-24, 05:48 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9U3wLokPpc&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

mapuc

05-29-24, 05:54 PM

But like I said not in Russian territory, just empty words. IMO when those two morons Macron and Scholz trembled early on afraid to make Putin mad. The U.S., U.K. and Baltic States were arming, training Ukrainian soldiers since 2014.

I’ll bet you big money now that certain European leaders like those two sheep mentioned above smell victory they come out of the wood work suddenly ready to march into battle to be a hero after the war is over declaring approval to show how much they care.

You may be right however it is only a matter of time before we will receive news on how the Westen weapons has been used against Russian targets inside Russia-Only a matter of time.

Do they know something I don't ? Because the war ain't over yet and who's going win is still uncertain.

Markus

Reece

05-29-24, 07:54 PM

If Russia can fire Iranian and North Korea weapons into Ukraine I see no reason Ukraine can't fire western weapons into Russia!! :timeout:

August

05-29-24, 10:53 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp5PSnGwOR0

Rockstar

05-30-24, 04:50 AM

If Russia can fire Iranian and North Korea weapons into Ukraine I see no reason Ukraine can't fire western weapons into Russia!! :timeout:

Ukraine has flown drones into Russia. Maybe you are suggesting Ukraine fire cruise missiles? They don’t have any. With slight modifications they could accurately strike ground targets with their s300 SAMS. But they haven’t done that.

Everyone is just on the permission public relations bandwagon and not really thinking what the objective is. Emotional rants & polls about who gives permission especially by those who haven’t provided the means to do so are pointless.

Skybird

05-30-24, 05:50 AM

Sweden will deliver all its remaining PBV 302 infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine, around 200 units, including all maitenance equipment, spare parts and ammo for these vehicles designed in the 60s. German wkipedia has this about it:

The hull of the infantry fighting vehicle is similar to that of the M113 in terms of box construction, but consists of welded armored steel plates. The Pbv 302 has been continuously modernized and its combat value increased over the years and is still in service today, although the more modern Combat Vehicle 90 infantry fighting vehicle is increasingly being used. It was not exported to other countries.

The main armament is a 20 mm Hispano-Suiza type 804 automatic cannon, which is housed in a turret made of welded armored steel plates. The automatic cannon came from surplus J 28 (Vampire) aircraft of the Swedish Air Force (Flygvapnet). Since they ejected the shells downwards in the Vampire, but upwards in the turret, there were frequent malfunctions. A box magazine with 30 rounds supplies the weapon. A total of ten magazines are carried. The elevation range of the gun extends from -10° to +50°, the elevation range is 360°. The firing range is designed for distances of 500 to 1600 meters. As secondary armament, the vehicle carries a 7.62 mm caliber machine gun mounted on the armored personnel carrier. The excellent off-road driving characteristics are worth mentioning. The relatively wide tracks of the Pbv 302 cause a ground pressure of only 0.6 kg/cm². This is particularly advantageous on tundra terrain in summer and on snow. A power-to-weight ratio of 14.36 kW/t also favors this.

The vehicle is also amphibious. In the water, it is propelled by the chains.

There is no NBC protection and no built-in night vision equipment.

------------

Addendum: the cannon is also belt-fed with HE rounds, the boxed ammunition causing problems when ejecting the empty shells is for AP rounds.

Drones make every movement in daylight a highly dangerous task and movement is often tasked for the night. I am sure that night vision is a minimum they will need to apply to these vehicles. Probably comm systems as well.

Skybird

05-30-24, 06:18 AM

Media report that around 14% of Russia's oil refinery capacities currently are out of action due to Ukrainian drone strikes. There are correpsinding losses in state income for the Russia budget. Ukrainian drones have increased their size, range, and payload, they also constantly improve their hardening against jamming. The newest models seem to have a range of 1000km. So in innovaiton the Ukrainians are leading, but Russia is superior, up and away in its ability to industrially mass-produce drones.

Rockstar

05-30-24, 08:04 AM

Exactly! Ukraine has been for quite sometime now striking targets on Russian soil and they have every right too. Seems to me Ukraine doesn’t need anyone’s blessing now do they? Yet European politicians are suddenly stumbling over themselves to be the first to give Ukraine permission, what arrogance.

Our ATACMS have a longer range than the British Storm Shadow cruise missile. Let’s go Europe your politician's graciously gave Ukraine permission to strike inside Russia, now step and put your money where mouth is and at least give Ukraine the hardware with the range to do it.

So far you provide just bold talk and no action. Take the lead Europe send strikes into Russias manufacturing and energy sectors send your tomahawks into Moscow and other major metropolitan centers that would do nicely I think. You’ve given yourself permission now show the world how it’s done give Ukraine the tools to do it.

Rockstar

05-30-24, 08:33 AM

….
Do they know something I don't ? Because the war ain't over yet and who's going win is still uncertain.

Markus

What I know is what our SecState mentioned that the tide has turned in favor of Ukraine. Now couple that with European leaders (particularly Scholz and Macron) who at the start were afraid to make Putin mad. Suddenly stepping out of the shadows making a show of granting permission to Ukraine to strike Russia! Which , funny enough is something Ukraine has been doing already. Makes me think Blinken is telling the truth.

Don’t worry Ukraine, the U.S., U.K. and Baltic States have had your back since 2014.

mapuc

05-30-24, 09:45 AM

Exactly! Ukraine has been for quite sometime now striking targets on Russian soil and they have every right too. Seems to me Ukraine doesn’t need anyone’s blessing now do they? Yet European politicians are suddenly stumbling over themselves to be the first to give Ukraine permission, what arrogance.

Our ATACMS have a longer range than the British Storm Shadow cruise missile. Let’s go Europe your politician's graciously gave Ukraine permission to strike inside Russia, now step and put your money where mouth is and at least give Ukraine the hardware with the range to do it.

So far you provide just bold talk and no action. Take the lead Europe send strikes into Russias manufacturing and energy centers send a couple of tomahawks into Moscow and other major metropolitan centers that would do nicely I think. You’ve given yourself permission now show the world how it’s done.

Gonna be interesting to se how Russia will response to these attack on their equipment on their side of the border.

As stated before Ukraine should have any given rights to eliminate threats to Ukraine even when the threat is placed in Russia.

Markus

Rockstar

05-30-24, 10:02 AM

Gonna be interesting to se how Russia will response to these attack on their equipment on their side of the border.

As stated before Ukraine should have any given rights to eliminate threats to Ukraine even when the threat is placed in Russia.

Markus

As I stated before Ukraine doesn’t need Europes approval or permission. Ukraine has been launching strikes into Russia long before your politicians suddenly hopped on the bandwagon and started granting them permission.

“Gonna be interesting” How so? Because if it’s western weapons you think that should be used then stop talking about giving permission and send Ukraine the hardware to do it. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

mapuc

05-30-24, 10:22 AM

As I stated before Ukraine doesn’t need Europes approval or permission. Ukraine has been launching strikes into Russia long before your politicians suddenly hopped on the bandwagon and started granting them permission.

“Gonna be interesting” How so? Because if it’s western weapons you think that should be used then stop talking about giving permission and send Ukraine the hardware to do it. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.

I'm not in the position to give a green light or I would have done so long time ago.

Markus

mapuc

05-30-24, 10:43 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Awsck8NG-A&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Rockstar

05-30-24, 11:22 AM

I'm not in the position to give a green light or I would have done so long time ago.

Markus

But the green light has been given to use western weapons by every European leader on the continent. The problem is, it’s just a load of empty words, political hay, spin, smoke and mirrors. Because not one of them has given Ukraine a western weapon capable of doing what they call for.

Skybird

05-30-24, 11:33 AM

Rockstar

05-30-24, 11:52 AM

Like they I said earlier I think the reason for the U.S. stance is plausible deniability. Why? Because Ukraine is still sending drones into Russia regardless of the rhetoric and our economic and military aid to Ukraine has not stopped.

I will say this though the Ukraine drone strike on Russia’s earlier warning system was really really stupid.

Rockstar

05-30-24, 12:47 PM

Ukraine better obeys demands that weapons give to it by third parties are used accprding to limitations declared by the donator. Whether these limitations are reasonable or not, is somethign else. But if they violate Western demands, they face the consquences of not getting weapons anymore.

Drones are no missiles are no cruise missiles. BTW. Look up the difference in capabilties. A very decisive one: a specialised missiles can penetrate hardended structures. A flying IED can not. Oil tanks at refineries are no hardened structures.

Biden's team so far signals clearly they do not want US-donated weapons being used inside Russian air space or territory, his speaker hes insisted on this oince again just short time ago. When Ukraine shot down two helicopters and 2 fighter bombers on the Russian side of the border with a Germany-donated Patriot battery, not just Berlin but also Washington immediately called Kyiv, fuming, and threatened to send no more ammunitions at all if Kyiv does that again.

I wonder what your policy is behind describing things so one-sided and simplistic, Rockstar. And just as a reminder, there are a few European states who, standardized against economic strength , GDP, popuation size, do and give incredibly much more than the US. ;) They put others AND AMERICA to shame.

I didn’t once talk smack about what financial & military aid that’s been contributed by European nations since the outbreak of the war.

What get my hackles up is all the stupid European rhetoric suddenly pops up granting permission to Ukraine to use western armaments to strike inside Russia. But then refuse to give Ukraine the tools to it. It’s nonsense and frankly divisive. Believe it or not I think the objective is keep the war between Russia and Ukraine and not spilling over into a war between NATO and Russia. Seems some are having a hard time figuring that out.

mapuc

05-30-24, 01:46 PM

This was posted on Ukraine Matters YT page

President Macron throwing in his growing (in Europe, not so much in France) political weight to support Ukraine.
In a combined press conference with Chancellor Olaf Scholz he thoroughly explained the case for why Ukraine must be able to strike targets in Russia.
He now put Chancellor Scholz in a tight spot where there is a clear way forward and from whispers it seems that consensus agreement is brewing.
Most likely it will be:
- Ukraine will be allowed to strike military targets on Russian soil
- Restriction on distance may apply rumors are speculating around 100km
- Ukraine will coordinate the strikes with allies. Most likely post factum.
- Ukraine will stop attacking perceived civilian infrastructure such as oil refineries or electrical stations. Including with Ukrainian weapons.

In my opinion the last point should not be accepted by Ukrainians.
This is good news for Ukraine and really bad for Russians.
Obviously so far this is all rumors and everything can fall through.
It is now clear that if Germany agrees most likely US will approve the agreement as well.
Thank you everyone that escalated and promoted this issue to your politicians!

Markus

Rockstar

05-30-24, 02:29 PM

Send the weapons Macron! Come on do it Macron make it happen. You gave Ukraine permission now send Ukraine the long range cruise missiles. Let’s see how fast this war between Russia and Ukraine spills over into a war Europe is not in anyway prepared to handle.

I imagine their first defense would be to blame the U.S. :03: But hey if you all feel the need to strike inside Russian territory you go right ahead and deal with the
consequences. I live on the other side of the ocean won’t bother me a bit. Good luck :yeah:

Skybird

05-30-24, 02:58 PM

So much for the US Taiwan defence "pact".

Rockstar

05-30-24, 04:17 PM

One thing at a time. China is not ready to go to war over Taiwan yet.

In addition to Europe and Taiwan we got enough on our plate trying to keep the shipping lanes open in the Red Sea thanks a screwed Middle East policy.

Skybird

05-30-24, 05:18 PM

Rockstar

05-30-24, 05:48 PM

So thinks you. China sees that the longer China waits the more small smart weapons now will get poured into Taiwan.

They will attack sooner rather than later.

Also, Xi does not get younger. And they have their jubilee soon.

But I was about ppointing at what your claims about Ukraine imply for the US promises for Taiwan. If your country's policy follows indeed your thinking, you will not come to Taiwan's defence, and since your military strength looses small bits of ground to China with every month passing by, this does not make thingb slook any brighter. Nor would you honour article 5 of the NATO treaty.

Thats what your statement's inner logic imply.

In other words, US reputation and trustworthiness is done - if you were right.

While Macron and Scholz were suckin Putin’s hind teet.
We and a few others came to Ukraines defense back in 2014 and began arming and training their soldiers and we have been with them ever since, at the same trying to ensure it doesn’t turn into a direct conflict between Russia and NATO . Something those two fair weather heroes Macron & Scholz suddenly seem eager to start..

mapuc

05-30-24, 05:52 PM

While Macron and Scholz were suckin Putin’s hind tit.
We and a few others came to Ukraines defense back in 2014 and began arming and training their soldiers and we have been with them ever since, at the same trying to ensure it doesn’t turn into a direct conflict between Russia and NATO . Something those two fair weather heroes Macron & Scholz suddenly seem eager to start..

Putin is an toothless tiger who's only strength is to roar highly

He is not going to start some war against a NATO member.

Markus

Rockstar

05-30-24, 06:12 PM

Putin is an toothless tiger who's only strength is to roar highly

He is not going to start some war against a NATO member.

Markus

Then go right ahead tell Macron and Scholz to grow a pair and launch their long range armaments deep inside Russia. Just don't blame me if Russia responds in kind. Won’t bother me if they do, I don’t live there. As for me I trust the spooks and SecState and his minions to tell me who is and isn’t a toothless tiger and what the objectives are.

Let Russian troops be the ones to see Putin as the villain, panic, see the futility of their efforts, lose hope and flee. If you start bombing those people in the interior of Russia they will then begin to see you as the villain making it easy for Poutine to mobilize more meat assaults.

mapuc

05-30-24, 06:29 PM

Then go right ahead tell Macron and Scholz to grow a pair and launch their long range armaments deep inside Russia. Just don't blame me if Russia responds in kind. Won’t bother me if they do, I don’t live there. As for me I trust the spooks and SecState to tell me who is and isn’t a toothless tiger and what the objectives are.

Let Russian troops be the ones to see Putin as the villain, panic, see the futility of their efforts, lose hope and flee. If you start bombing those people they see you as the villain making it easy for Poutine to mobilize more meat assaults.

They are not meant to hit civilian targets in Russia or industrial facilities-It's meant they have the right to hit targets from the border and 2-300 km into the Russian soil-Targets who's a threat to Ukraine/Kharkiv.

Ukraine is already attacking deep inside Russia with their drones

Markus

Rockstar

05-30-24, 06:31 PM

They are not meant to hit civilian targets in Russia or industrial facilities-It's meant they have the right to hit targets from the border and 2-300 km into the Russian soil-Targets who's a threat to Ukraine/Kharkiv.

Ukraine is already attacking deep inside Russia with their drones

Markus

We already do that. Though I don’t think out to 300 km that would likely mean HIMARS would have be on the border or in Russia and that ain’t likely to happen. Not even storm shadow model the Brit’s gave to Ukraine has that kind of range .

But maybe those blow hards Macron and Scholz have something to offer besides words.

mapuc

05-30-24, 06:42 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFkJTmCzU3g&ab_channel=JakeBroe

Markus

Rockstar

05-30-24, 06:49 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFkJTmCzU3g&ab_channel=JakeBroe

Markus

I should also add that since Blinken has said on many occasions in the past we do not tell Ukraine what they can or cannot do. I was thinking that ATACMS and Storm Shadows will probably not be used anyway.

Ukraine has a truckload of S-2 & -300’s in their inventory and with slight modifications can use them to accurately strike ground targets. This would be in keeping with our objective of keeping the war between Ukraine and Russia.

There see that wasn’t so hard.

Catfish

05-31-24, 05:03 AM

"German government allows Ukraine the use of german weapons against targets in Russia."

"Die Zeit" , 50 min. ago.
https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2024-05/bundesregierung-erlaubt-ukraine-waffeneinsatz-gegen-ziele-in-russland

Still no Taurus though, but at least..

Skybird

05-31-24, 06:27 AM

mapuc

05-31-24, 08:26 AM

August

05-31-24, 08:32 AM

Everyday I read about civilian causalities in the city of Kharkiv.

I shake my head over our western leaders who is tying Ukraines hand behind their back.

Yes they got a limit accept to hit Russian targets inside Russia

I say they should remove this limitation and let Ukraine hit every targets who is a threat to Ukraine and not only Kharkiv oblast.

So far they are using drones with some success

Markus

The Kharkiv area is different than the rest of the front. Only here is the front line close enough to the Russian border that it allows them to stage their artillery and supply bases in their own country.

Rockstar

05-31-24, 08:39 AM

The dwarfling follows its master. Thats Leadership! :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:
Never forget thoguh that they talk of only limited attaclks for th epurpose of defending Charkiv. How disconnected form realty miust a desktop mastermind be to think you can clearly set apart the one from the other, the attack for the defence of Charkiv from the attack not for the defence of Charkiv...:k_confused:

Like I said we really don’t care if Ukraine sends THEIR missiles into Russia. They just took out an oil refinery in Temryuk with their own home grown Neptune missiles and guess what? Our economic and military aid still continues as it has since 2014. It’s our gear we’re more concerned about as we want to keep this from spilling over.

Russia is now putting cope cages on T-55’s who knows the way things are going for Russia we just might see Mickey Maus on the field again and it’s been reported Russia is using missiles from North Korea. They are slowly withering away and currently contained.

Skybird

05-31-24, 08:44 AM

The permission for using Westenr wepapons beyond the border comes with hooks and limitations. I just learned that only Himars and MARS II are allowe dot be sued, whereas ATACMS are not.

But the efficiency of Himars has been dramatically reduced by Russian adapoation and jamming. American insiders said that at best 50% of Himars now can rahc their targets and impact "in its vicinity". Other American insiders said that Himars has been degraded to a degree that it "now is practically useless". Kyiv insists on using it with around 50% efficiency. Compare that to success rates in the high 90s when Himars arrived.

Practically all sophisticated Wetsern smart ammunitions and weapons have been substantially degraded by Rus sian jamming. The very expensive smart artillery round "Excalibur" has a hit lprobability so low now that it practically does not even get used anymore: below 10%.

ATACMS also are runmoured to laready have been affected by degraded hit peroformance. It seems Ukraine needs to invest more of these low-supply missiles per strike than originally was assumed. The effect of these attacks also is apparently much less overwhelming than it was assumed they would be. The Russians are less impressed by their use than was expected.

Russia was already before the war world leader in jamming technology. They only jhave beocme better both in quality and quantity. And they share their gained data on Western weapons electronics with China, no doubt, and probably others.

Rockstar

05-31-24, 11:05 AM

Jimbuna

05-31-24, 12:28 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKMxugv0RGA

Dargo

05-31-24, 01:06 PM

SBU Drones Destroyed $100 Million Russian Radar System in CrimeaSources from Ukraine’s special services told Kyiv Post about the latest successful SBU operation, which has rendered Russian air defenses in Crimea “blind.” Kyiv Post sources in Ukraine’s special services report that on the night of May 29-30, “the Russians lost one long-range radar detection system Nebo-SVU worth about $100 million,” which was located near Armyansk and used to monitor a more than 380-kilometer section of the front protecting Russian positions in Crimea.

According to those sources, the radar system valued at $100 million, was hit by seven aircraft-type kamikaze drones in an operation run by the counterintelligence department of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU), after which satellite reconnaissance detected that emissions from the system could no longer be detected. The sources said, the Nebo complex was no longer operational and was “likely turned into a colander.” This SBU operation has rendered the Russian air defense "blind" over a significant section of the front.Last month the SBU targeted a Russian long-range radar station in the Bryansk region, which was monitoring the sky 700 kilometers into Ukrainian territory, sources within the special services informed Kyiv Post.

“The Russians now have one less modernized Nebo-U complex,” Kyiv Post’s source said. The radar helped Russian troops detect Ukrainian weapons and supported bombers attacking Ukrainian border settlements with guided aerial bombs. https://www.kyivpost.com/post/33575

Rockstar

05-31-24, 01:49 PM

mapuc

05-31-24, 02:50 PM

Every euro knows the U.S. would never permit Ukraine to do that. So it must be all lies and propaganda. :haha:

I think it is a valid information we have been given.

Drones and other missiles who is their own is being used on daily basis and they don't ask for permission to do so.

Here is some important news for the Ukrainians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASo5sB6_LGk&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

mapuc

05-31-24, 03:16 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX5Kj8DQ1UM&ab_channel=Military%26History

Markus

Dargo

05-31-24, 03:56 PM

mapuc

05-31-24, 03:59 PM

Dargo

05-31-24, 04:58 PM

What about these longrange missiles the F16 can carry ? Are they allowed to use them too(If they get some jassm or similar)

MarkusFor the F-16s, the principle is that you are allowed to act on Russian territory at the time it is in self-defence. With the permission that Ukraine gets it gets more capacity to attack the Russians, That means you can disrupt the build-up of logistical supplies for an offensive or command posts or units going forward. You can also knock out bridges and railroads.

mapuc

05-31-24, 05:19 PM

Thank you Dargo

Seems Russia is once again running into problems

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnqkCRmFCK4&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Rockstar

05-31-24, 08:22 PM

The F-16s that the Netherlands supplies to Ukraine can be used on targets in Russia without permission from the United States. That is what outgoing Foreign Minister Hanke Bruins Slot told news agency ANP. The use is also not limited to the border region near Kharkiv, Bruins Slot informed.

Nice of the ‘outgoing’ minister to offer such permission. Believe it or not this a team effort run by professionals not a bunch emotional childish wannabe hero’s trying to look brave. The targets inside Russia that Ukraine will be permitted to strike using western hardware will be similar to what they are now. Basically immediate threats in specified areas near Ukraines border and not much more.

Also, as Defense Minister Troels Lund Poulsen has stated ”Det er svært at lægge en fast tidsplan for donationen F-16-kampfly, fordi der er flere betingelser, som skal være opfyldt, for at Ukraine kan bruge de donerede fly. Men jeg har orienteret forligskredsen om, at vi nu arbejder på, at det går op i en højere enhed til sommer, hvor vi forventer at kunne overdrage de første F-16-kampfly til Ukraine, hvis forberedelserne forløber som planlagt”

You got to get them first.

I find utterly amazing that for over a decade the Baltic States and Poland warned of the danger Eastern Europe was being placed in from Putin and all the others who signed on to his energy pipelines. All most you did was either ignore warning or laugh at it.

Now when we come in supporting Ukraine and try to contain this mess you people created all you do is complain how we go about it. What the hell do they put in your drinking water over there?

August

06-01-24, 01:08 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeWGM1LIobA

Jimbuna

06-01-24, 01:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6COE8WIXv0

mapuc

06-01-24, 01:40 PM

^ Getting final accept to hit targets in Russia....however....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAtqE6GLcsU&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

mapuc

06-01-24, 05:31 PM

Good question

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEniblBY7oo&ab_channel=Sandboxx

And of course Russia is claiming that these F16 will be carrying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEOjvBkcYtY&ab_channel=Sandboxx

Markus

Jimbuna

06-02-24, 07:56 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYl0MIJKqIc

Skybird

06-02-24, 08:41 AM

^ Getting final accept to hit targets in Russia....however....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAtqE6GLcsU&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus
A brief summary of the war logic so far.

Defend yourself. But until recently - don'T strike the enemy in his preparation and rest space.

Defend yourself. But don't strike Russian refineries to hurt his oil supply and our gasoline porices and my eleciton chances.
Defend yourself but dont demand to get enough of what you need to do so.
Defend yourself, but dont strikem the neemy'S military production facilities.
Defend yourself, but don't hinder the enemy's long range detection capabilities against your drones.
Defend yourself, but dont strike Kerch bridge before the Russians have established alternative supply liones

Defend yourseklf, but dont strike your enemy so hard that he will no longer win.

Defend yourself, but dont defend yourself too much. Better bleed than successfully deter the enemy, if need be.

I have stopped long time ago trying to ake sens eof Wetsenr logic when all exprience witg Russia since WW2 shows that the Russians respect and react to only one thing: equal if not superior force and the bitter detemrination to use it. Only then there was and is the chance that Russia gives space.

What they think in most Western capitals, makes me sick. Its all fear-driven - and fear alone is the worst of all advisors. How the war goes shows the outcome of fear as a strategy. Plus the Republican sabotage - that could be seen by future historians as the single most influential factor that has costed the Ukraine to reach an outcome fo this war at its conditions.

The Ukrainians desperately need everything they can get, so they cannot tell us openly what they think of us. They cannot afford this sort of honesty. But I doubt that behind their polite faces they feel nothing but thankfulness.

They are fighting OUR future war so that we must not fight it. They die for OUR illusion of peace and freedom. And we bind them their hands on their back and refuse them the weapons they need.

We are closer to Russian than Ukrainian interests, as a matter of fact - our own strategic longterm interests not even mentioned.

The only thing Sovjet/Russian "diplomacy" has ever reported and reacted to, was superior force and iron determination.

Our governments are made of wine gums - they are soft and give way when you bite them, and when you spit on them, they slowly dissolve.

Jimbuna

06-02-24, 08:55 AM

Zelensky criticises Biden for not doing enough

Volodymyr Zelensky has criticised Joe Biden, the US president, for not doing enough in allowing US weapons to be fired into Russia as Ukraine faces the threat of a renewed invasion.

The Ukrainian president thanked Mr Biden for giving Kyiv permission to strike inside Russian territory with American munitions but said restrictions - including on the use of long-range Atacms - should also be dropped.

In a rare rebuke of his US ally, he said: “Is that sufficient? No. Why? Because I have given you the example of airfields from which Russia is permanently firing, in calm, knowing that Ukraine will not fire back because it has no corresponding systems and no permissions.”

After weeks of pressure, Mr Biden gave permission for Ukraine to use American missiles, such as Himars, to fire across the border north of Kharkiv, where Russian forces are massing. But he blocked Ukraine from using the more advanced Atacms systems.
Mr Zelensky said his government was seeking the green light to hit Russian military airfields used on a daily basis to attack “purely civilian infrastructure – dams, energy grid, schools, universities”, as well as hospitals.

He added that Russia continued to use artillery, long-range fire, and some 300 weapons systems carrying tens of thousands of missiles on its side of the border to target the Ukrainian population.

“So they have these weapons there and they do not remove them because they know that Ukraine cannot target them with Western weaponry even if they fire against us,” he said.

The Ukrainian president made his comments at Asia’s top security summit in Singapore. He made a surprise visit this weekend to appeal to Asia and Pacific leaders to attend a June peace summit in Switzerland where he hopes to forge a path for the “just” ending of Russia’s war.

Mr Zelensky met with Lloyd Austin, the US defence secretary, as well as the leaders of Singapore, Timor Leste and Indonesia, but not with the Chinese delegation that was led by their defence minister Dong Jun.

Beijing has publicly criticised the Ukrainian peace initiative because Russia is not invited, and confirmed that it would not be attending as the arrangements for the meeting “falls short of China’s requirements”.

It was reported that Mr Zelensky had hoped to engage with the Chinese in Singapore. Instead, he accused China of being “an instrument in the hands of Putin”, claiming that the country was dispatching its diplomats at Russia’s behest to persuade countries to snub the summit.

“Regrettably, Russia using Chinese influence on the region, using Chinese diplomats also, does everything to disrupt this summit,” Mr Zelensky said.

Mr Zelensky said “with China’s support to Russia the war will last longer. That is bad for the whole world, and the policy of China – who declares that it supports territorial integrity and sovereignty and declares it officially. For them it is not good”.

He also echoed the US accusation that China has been providing military support to Russia, which Beijing denies. Washington has alleged that China’s export of dual-use goods to Moscow is bolstering its defence industrial base.

Mr Zelensky accused Beijing of undermining its pledges not to arm Russia, saying that “today, there are various signals from various intelligence services… that somehow, some way, something comes to Russia’s markets via China”.

China claims neutrality in the conflict while providing an economic lifeline to Russia, which is subject to international sanctions, and also as the two countries have stepped up their diplomatic partnership.

In a speech to the defence conference on Sunday morning, Mr Jun said China had been “promoting peace talks with a responsible attitude”.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/zelensky-criticises-biden-for-not-doing-enough/ar-BB1ntVnR?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=8c4e883db86147c8aef6a7483080b208&ei=11

Dargo

06-02-24, 11:03 AM

UK intel: Russian regime’s demand for loyalty over skills on display in general’s arrestLate last month, Russian authorities detained a former Russian army commander, Maj-Gen Ivan Popov, who voiced concerns about the country’s high military casualties in Ukraine on suspicion of committing large-scale fraud. He was dismissed as Russia’s 58th Combined Arms Army last year after criticizing the Russian military leadership. In its intelligence update, the British Defense Ministry says Popov, considered a competent commander, was likely arrested as a punitive measure for perceived disloyalty, likely to dismay Russian military personnel and signal to senior commanders that loyalty to the regime is valued above competence.

The Ministry wrote:
On 21 May 2024, Russian media reported that General-Major Ivan Popov, former commander of the Russian 58th Combined Arms Army (CAA), had been arrested on charges of fraud and corruption related to the sale of military construction materials. Popov was dismissed from his post as commander of the 58th CAA (deployed to the Zaporizhzhia sector in Ukraine) in July 2023 after his private criticism about the competence of Russian defence leadership’s decisions relating to the conduct of the war were publicised. Popov subsequently criticised the decision to remove him publicly, describing it as “our senior commander hitting us from the rear, treacherously and ditty beheading the army at the most difficult and tense moment.”
In it system where corrupfion itself is endemic, its punishment is more often it political tool than an attempt to enforce good governance. There is a long history of the Russian regime using corruption charges, real or invented, to remove or punish internal critics or those who have angered more powerful elite figures. It is likely Popov’s arrest is a demonstrative punishment for his perceived disloyalty to his superiors.
As an army commander, Popov was generally regarded as highly competent and, according to Russian military commentators, was popular among Russian troops. His arrest is likely to further dismay Russian military personnel and reinforce to his peers in senior command positions that loyalty and obedience to the regime and one’s superiors is valued more highly than competence and charisma.
https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/06/02/uk-intel-russian-regimes-demand-for-loyalty-over-skills-on-display-in-generals-arrest/

Rockstar

06-02-24, 12:46 PM

Hey Markus remember the Russian propaganda video you posted where all of sources were actually from British tabloid news? Well there’s more divisive russian propaganda from more British tabloid news posted above.

Speaking like the typical European and already blaming the U.S. I swear they must put something in your water over there.

Speaking of not doing enough. Interesting comment from ‘Average Ukrainian 3af2245a’ concerning the article and especially the highlight below.

Average Ukrainian 3af2245a
"... Destroying this unity, undermining this spirit, destroys the only thing that keeps the army combat-ready..."

“A quote from the FSB instruction for Yermak and Zelenskyy.”

—————

Commanders are tourists, one of the most acute problems of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

14:43 02.06.2024

https://m.censor.net/ua/blogs/3492577/v_chomu_bda_takogo_yavischa_dlya_ukranskogo_vyiska

The last year was marked by the cycle of appointments, reappointments of commanders of all levels, for some objective reasons, for subjective reasons, for reasons of personal profit, for reasons of nepotism, for reasons of personal dislike and others.

What is the trouble of this phenomenon for the Ukrainian army? But the elementary thing is that every commander of different levels today assumes that he is not here for long. And not for a long time, it means that you don't have to teach completely, because tomorrow you will be transferred somewhere without explanations and justifications, just "because such a decision".

If earlier, before this "pennel teaver", commanders were interested in building, staffing and providing their unit, now the better your unit, the higher the probability that someone "your" will be appointed to your place tomorrow, and you will be stuck in some "penalty" (where avatars and advers were dugs were dred for several years) or in the newly created one (he built, let him build this one). Commanders are often filmed for such "flights" of units, the cause of which was certainly not the commander's fault, and the next commander who comes to this place, assesses the reasons for removing the predecessor and lowers his hands, because he understands that the reasons that "lost" the predecessor will "lose" him (because they do not depend on him).

Familiar with many today's commanders who feel like tourists in positions, so they do not teach, do not sacrifice for the sake of the unit, perceive the unit as a rented apartment, from where they will have to move as soon as the owner wishes.

In conditions of chaotic transfers, appointments and withdrawals, not only commanders feel like tourists, but also their subordinates. Units from well-coordinated "families" turn into situational neighbors, whose further fate of being in the unit depends on what.

Does this affect the combat capability of units and the army as a whole? More than. The Ukrainian army is not an army of professional personnel military who win thanks to honed skills. This is an army of yesterday's civilians who win thanks to their spirit and unity. Destroying this unity, undermining this spirit, the only thing that keeps the army combat-ready is destroyed. And this order of things leads to the idea that this is not about victory and not about the defense capability of the State as a whole.

Jimbuna

06-02-24, 12:50 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0itgXDUKbc

Rockstar

06-02-24, 05:44 PM

The comments from ‘Average Ukrainian 3af2245a’ are again interesting. This isn’t Russian propaganda from British tabloid news either. It’s out of Ukraine written by Gennady Druzenko who is a lawyer, volunteer, co-founder and president of the PDMSH named after Mykola Pirogov.

Mr. Gennady disguised a simple thought under a mountain of words - under the power of green nits, Ukraine is waiting for an inevitable collapse - quote: "...this president and this government, simply untenable..." And Mr. Gennady offers to temporarily freeze the war so that power can be re-elen.
It's very good that Mr. Gennady did come to the conclusion that Zelenskyy and his ssewed green shay should be driven by three. The author's speed of thinking has not even passed five years.
But there is one issue regarding the freezing of the war - it will be necessary to persuade the Rashists to do so - like, wait, please, we will remove green **** here in Ukraine, put effective power and with new forces and ideas will start fighting with you again.
There is an opinion that the Rascists will not agree...

When will the war end?

https://censor.net/ua/blogs/3491687/absolyutna_blshst_vyin_zavershuvalas_za_stolom_per emovin

War in the modern world is the last possible policy option. You should fight when there is simply no other way out. When you refuse to hold a blow, you will get both war and shame, or rather, shameful occupation.
However, when fighting, it should always be remembered that war is for peace, not peace for war. Any wise and far-sighted statesman prefers to bring his country out of the war with the least losses and on the most acceptable terms.
The charismatic maximalist Napoleon eventually lost his war, although he won many battles. Pragmatic Mannerheim won his war, although he lost 11% of Finnish territory. However, he kept the Finnish state.
The picture that has been engraved in our heads since World War II, in which the war ends with a complete and unconditional surrender of the aggressor, is a historical exception, not a rule. The vast majority of wars ended at the negotiating table. And rarely, extremely rarely, the terms of peace were fair. Rather, they recorded a new balance of power on a certain frontier.
We have about six months to complete the current phase of the war with Russia. We need a pause in the wine no less, but probably more than Putin. Because I am deeply convinced that under this government, with such an ineffective organization of the state, with corrupt corruption by state bodies, with complete dependence on Western weapons and Western finance, in this context, Ukraine loses more from the continuation of the war than Russia.
A few examples are enough. Currently, the Russia produces artillery shells three times faster and four times cheaper compared to the United States and Europe, according to an analysis by consulting company Bain & Company. This year, Russia plans to produce 4.5 million artillery shells worth about $1,000 each, while the average cost of shells produced in Europe and the United States is about $4,000, although in some cases their cost can be more than $5,000 per unit.
And this does not include terrible CABs, the production of which is gaining momentum in Russia, and unguided air bombs, as well as cruise and ballistic missiles that destroy Ukrainian infrastructure in the deep rear.
The second example. According to the estimates of Volodymyr Omelchenko, Director of Energy Programs of the Razumkov Center, "today more than 70% of all electricity generation has been destroyed, damaged or occupied in Ukraine." And while we do not have and in the eepsy future, there is no envisaged an impenetrable air defense system that would guarantee that it will not be destroyed anymore. How we will survive next winter is an open question.
Another example. "More than 25% of children currently in Ukraine are deprived of the opportunity to fully study due to hostilities and regular rocket attacks by Russia," according to the Institute of Educational Analytics. Back in 2021, UN head Antonio Guterres warned that the transition of online learning caused by the pandemic could turn into a "whole generation disaster". For Ukraine, where children have been deprived of normal offline learning at desks for four years, this disaster, unfortunately, has already become a fait accompli.
We really fight like lions. Our defenders work real miracles at the front. But the long war is always about arithmetic, not heroism. And arithmetic, unfortunately, is not in our favor. The Wehrmacht, by far the best and most advanced war machine of the 1940s, lost to the allies (and above all the USSR) because it did not have so many people, weapons and other resources.
4 million shells that Russia will produce this year will allow it to produce about 10,000 shells per day at Ukrainian positions. Even if 100 enemy shells kill only one Ukrainian, it is 100 people a day, or 36.5 thousand a year. This is not counting 200,000 unguided air bombs and thousands of CABs... Plus drones and all kinds of missiles that Mordor has at its disposal. I don't even mention the losses from the enemy "storklekotny" here...
It's time to face the truth. Over the past year and a half, the front has stalled. In absolute terms, we lost several hundred square kilometres of Ukrainian territory more than we won back. In percentage, it is tenths of a percent. That is, we have learned to restrain the horde, but - unfortunately - we currently do not have the strength and means to liberate our occupied (hopefully temporarily) lands. And given the dynamics of mobilization, supply and production of weapons and ammunition, time is playing against us.
In six months, the presidential election will be held in the United States. After which, in the event of Biden's victory, assistance to Ukraine will continue, but will gradually stagnate, and therefore the chances of a turning point in the war are minimal. In the event of Trump's victory, complete uncertainty awaits us. But it is unlikely that business pragmatist and isolationist Trump will want and be able to reverse the course of the war in Ukraine. So next winter, after the US presidential election, our negotiating position will only become weaker, if not catastrophic.
Therefore, it is necessary to go out to freeze the war this fall. Making the most of the results of mobilization and the generous package of American armed assistance. Leveling the situation at the front (or rather at the fronts) where we are currently retreating.
To do this, it is not necessary to sign a humiliating peace with Putin or recognize the occupied territories as a legitimate part of the Russian Federation. The Korean Truce Agreement is still in effect...
To defeat, Ukraine needs to turn into a European Israel – a mobilized nation in which only national interests remain constant. Partners and allies can change. Improve constitutional architecture. Create an effective state machine. Introduce total military duty. Burn corruption from the state apparatus with hot iron. In a word, learn to live under the sword of Damocles of a Russian attack that can happen at any time.
Unfortunately, this president and this government are simply unable to undergo such transformations. They survived at a time when the world was hiding Ukraine. For this, they are honored and praised and eternal honor in history textbooks. But now creatives, improvisers (as well as schematists) should give way to architects, designers and engineers of statehood. Iron eggs (or if you like, iron will) are not a sufficient prerequisite for winning this war. We can only win by radically changing the system, changing ourselves. And the current leaders of Ukraine are unable to do this. Unfortunately...
Therefore, we desperately need a pause in the war to change the power, change the system, change Ukraine and finally properly prepare for the next rounds of endless duel with Russia, not for May barbecues...
Otherwise, Ukraine will become similar to the Serebryansky Forest (pictured), which is a witness to incredible Ukrainian heroism and military skill. But from which there is almost nothing left. Джерело:

mapuc

06-03-24, 11:34 AM

@ Rockstar

All the links and video provided by us is either Westen propaganda or Russian propaganda. It is our personal political standpoint who makes us believe this or that. As said by the guy in the video below(not in this one I post below)
"None of us know what's exactly going on if you aren't at the front in Ukraine"
As a defence for my friends here, I must say what most of them post is very qualified

More about these Western weapons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nplq1SbLnN0&ab_channel=UkraineMatters

Markus

Jimbuna

06-03-24, 01:06 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ojoiW9gBY

mapuc

06-03-24, 01:52 PM

Looks like some of the Ukrainian conscript is badly trained
(Could this be Russian propaganda?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDey23E8qCc&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Rockstar

06-03-24, 02:24 PM

Otto Harkaman

06-03-24, 04:32 PM

U.S.-supplied weapons

Recently, there has been significant discussion in the news about Ukraine using U.S.-supplied weapons to strike targets inside Russia. President Biden's administration has partially lifted restrictions, allowing Ukraine to use American weapons for counter-fire purposes near the Kharkiv region. This decision follows intense pressure from European allies, U.S. lawmakers, and Ukrainian officials, who have argued that these strikes are necessary to defend against Russian attacks originating from just across the border (Politico (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/30/ukraine-russia-us-weapons-00160684)) (Politico (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/29/biden-aides-signal-openness-to-allowing-ukraine-to-strike-russia-with-us-weapons-00160462)) (Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines (https://news.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-allowed-hit-targets-russia-202959344.html)).

While the Biden administration had previously resisted easing these restrictions due to fears of escalating the conflict, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and other officials have signaled a willingness to adapt the policy as battlefield conditions evolve. However, the U.S. policy still prohibits the use of Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMS) or long-range strikes deep inside Russian territory (Politico (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/29/biden-aides-signal-openness-to-allowing-ukraine-to-strike-russia-with-us-weapons-00160462)) (Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines (https://news.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-allowed-hit-targets-russia-202959344.html)).

BUT
There is credible evidence indicating that Ukraine has used the U.S.-supplied Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) against targets in Russian-occupied territories. Reports suggest that Ukraine deployed ATACMS in several significant strikes, targeting Russian military installations and air defense systems.

For instance, on October 17, 2023, Ukraine used ATACMS to strike two Russian airbases, one near Luhansk and another in Berdiansk, resulting in substantial damage, including the destruction of nine helicopters, an ammo depot, and an air defense missile launcher (AeroTime (https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/satellite-photos-reveal-atacms-attacks-on-russian-airbases)). Satellite images confirmed these attacks, showing destroyed runways and the ruins of the targeted helicopters (AeroTime (https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/satellite-photos-reveal-atacms-attacks-on-russian-airbases)).

Additionally, in May 2024, there were reports of Ukraine using ATACMS to hit Russian air defense sites in Crimea, particularly targeting the S-400 systems at the Belbek air base. These strikes involved up to 16 ATACMS missiles with cluster warheads (The Aviationist (https://theaviationist.com/2024/05/24/ukraine-destroys-s-400-using-atacms/)) (Kyiv Post (https://www.kyivpost.com/analysis/31903)). The use of these missiles is part of Ukraine's broader strategy to degrade Russian air defenses and logistical capabilities.

These operations illustrate Ukraine's ability to conduct precise, long-range strikes, significantly impacting Russian military infrastructure (Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/05/15/russia-says-it-downed-10-us-supplied-missiles-over-crimea-blinken-visits-kyiv.html)) (Kyiv Post (https://www.kyivpost.com/analysis/31903)).

mapuc

06-03-24, 04:44 PM

).
BUT
There is credible evidence indicating that Ukraine has used the U.S.-supplied Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) against targets in Russian-occupied territories. Reports suggest that Ukraine deployed ATACMS in several significant strikes, targeting Russian military installations and air defense systems.

For instance, on October 17, 2023, Ukraine used ATACMS to strike two Russian airbases, one near Luhansk and another in Berdiansk, resulting in substantial damage, including the destruction of nine helicopters, an ammo depot, and an air defense missile launcher (AeroTime (https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/satellite-photos-reveal-atacms-attacks-on-russian-airbases)). Satellite images confirmed these attacks, showing destroyed runways and the ruins of the targeted helicopters (AeroTime (https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/satellite-photos-reveal-atacms-attacks-on-russian-airbases)).

Additionally, in May 2024, there were reports of Ukraine using ATACMS to hit Russian air defense sites in Crimea, particularly targeting the S-400 systems at the Belbek air base. These strikes involved up to 16 ATACMS missiles with cluster warheads (The Aviationist (https://theaviationist.com/2024/05/24/ukraine-destroys-s-400-using-atacms/)) (Kyiv Post (https://www.kyivpost.com/analysis/31903)). The use of these missiles is part of Ukraine's broader strategy to degrade Russian air defenses and logistical capabilities.

These operations illustrate Ukraine's ability to conduct precise, long-range strikes, significantly impacting Russian military infrastructure (Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/05/15/russia-says-it-downed-10-us-supplied-missiles-over-crimea-blinken-visits-kyiv.html)) (Kyiv Post (https://www.kyivpost.com/analysis/31903)).

Didn't US/NATO give full green lights to Ukrainian in using HIMARS, ATACMS and similar against Russian targets inside their own soil ?

Markus

Otto Harkaman

06-03-24, 05:01 PM

Otto Harkaman

06-03-24, 05:16 PM

Is there any reliable evidence who destroyed the Nord Stream pipeline? (Asking AI:chatgpt4)

The Nord Stream pipeline explosions in September 2022 remain a mystery, with multiple investigations yielding limited conclusive evidence. Germany, Sweden, and Denmark launched probes into the incident, which involved undersea explosions that damaged the pipelines designed to transport Russian natural gas to Germany.

Sweden recently dropped its investigation, citing a lack of jurisdiction as the blasts did not involve Swedish interests directly. Swedish prosecutors had found traces of explosives at the site but could not identify a culprit. Meanwhile, Germany continues its investigation, with reports indicating that explosives used in the sabotage might have been transported via a yacht (DW (https://www.dw.com/en/sweden-drops-nord-stream-explosions-investigation/a-68192734)) (POLITICO (https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-drops-nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-probe-ukraine-russia-war/)).

Several theories about the responsible party have surfaced, but no definitive evidence has been presented. Some reports suggest a pro-Ukrainian group might be involved, although Ukrainian officials, including President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, have denied any responsibility. Russia has also been implicated by some, but the Kremlin has denied involvement, instead blaming the UK, a claim dismissed by British authorities (DW (https://www.dw.com/en/sweden-drops-nord-stream-explosions-investigation/a-68192734)) (POLITICO (https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-drops-nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-probe-ukraine-russia-war/)).

The case remains unresolved, with ongoing investigations in Germany and Denmark attempting to uncover more details about the perpetrators and their motives.

https://www.alwihdainfo.com/photo/art/grande/70848888-49371745.jpg

mapuc

06-03-24, 05:18 PM

^^ Thank you

"and are intended for use within Ukraine's sovereign territory only"

Then I have heard correct. US have given Ukraine green light in using ATACMS on Ukrainian territory.

Markus

Skybird

06-03-24, 05:21 PM

^ It was reported that the US authorized the use of Himars and artillery at Russian targets near Charkiv and for the purpose of militarily defend Charkiv. ATACAMS have not been allowed. Attacking outside this Charkiv-reach defence zone with anything US-made has NOT been allowed.

The smallprint gets longer and longer. :doh: Maybe US government should hand over the strategy-tuning to the lawyers.

Oh, wait. There is nothing like a "strategy". That's why...

Skybird

06-03-24, 05:29 PM

Col. Reisner, 3rd of May 2024:

https://www-n--tv-de.translate.goog/politik/Russen-greifen-entlang-der-gesamten-Front-intensiv-an-article24985906.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de

Skybird

06-04-24, 02:14 PM

The German defebnc eninstry recently beefed up an existing treaty with the industry to now peroduce up to 200,000 shells 155mm for the PZH2000.

200,000.

Well.

After over two years of war.

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/politik/wir-haben-ein-leeres-blatt-militaerexperte-erklaert-warum-uns-im-waffenliefer-poker-mit-putin-bittere-folgen-drohen_id_260002574.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de

I would claim that German politicians still have not understood what "Zeitenwende" really means.

mapuc

06-04-24, 02:33 PM

Over 1200 Russian causalities-Doesn't matter they have won some meters land.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R-Iw0we6TE&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Catfish

06-04-24, 03:34 PM

The German defebnc eninstry recently beefed up an existing treaty with the industry to now peroduce up to 200,000 shells 155mm for the PZH2000.

200,000. Well. After over two years of war.

I would claim that German politicians still have not understood what "Zeitenwende" really means.
The man who used this word is a bigmouth who does not know what he's talking about, and who does "not remember anything" anyway :03:.
But it sure made a few more vote for him. At the time he said it. Not. Now.

Otto Harkaman

06-04-24, 06:27 PM

Ukraine missile strike on Russian soil likely used U.S. weapon system

Tuesday, June 4, 2024

Ukrainian forces reported successfully hitting a Russian S-300 missile system in Russian territory with Western-supplied weapons on Monday.
The attack likely utilized a High Mobility Artillery Rocket System on a Russian battery near the Ukraine border.
This marks Ukraine's first use of U.S.-supplied weapons to strike Russian targets inside Russia since President Joe Biden authorized limited strikes against imminent military threats.

https://ground.news/article/ukraine-missile-strike-on-russian-soil-likely-used-us-weapon-system_491afe

em2nought

06-05-24, 02:43 AM

Sending military advisors into a country in direct confrontation with Putin's Russia is a much more dangerous game than sending them into Vietnam was.

Better the advising should be done in some other nearby country. :hmmm: But hey, I don't want to start WW3 if it looks like I'm going to lose an election. Lord knows can't accidentally let another "bat" get loose again. :D

https://i.imgflip.com/5c016b.jpg

mapuc

06-05-24, 07:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uCOyCZhM3w&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

mapuc

06-05-24, 11:27 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCjaFMIuCKI&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Jimbuna

06-05-24, 01:34 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz7Km-3B2r4

Jimbuna

06-05-24, 01:43 PM

G7 leaders to be presented with US idea of using Russian assets for Ukraine

G7 leaders at the summit in Italy may be presented with a proposal to grant Ukraine a loan secured by frozen Russian assets, citing US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen.

According to Yellen, the loan proposal has garnered significant support. The US Treasury Secretary estimates that the income from the frozen Russian assets amounts to approximately $3 to $5 billion annually.

"So we're hopeful that this can be worked into something to be presented to the leaders at the upcoming G7 meeting," Yellen said.

The White House also said that any decision regarding the monetization of around $300 billion from frozen Russian assets must be made in coordination with allies and other countries.

US Treasury Assistant Secretary Brent Neiman also stated that the US and G7 partners are making progress in finding a faster way to utilize the income from Russia's frozen assets.

US proposal

Ukraine's allies from the Group of Seven are discussing the possibility of using Russia's frozen assets to benefit Ukraine. The US proposes granting Ukraine a $50 billion loan secured by Russian assets.

G7 finance ministers made some progress on this issue during their meeting at the end of May.

The head of the World Bank stated that he would agree to manage the G7 credit fund for Ukraine if an appropriate decision is made.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/g7-leaders-to-be-presented-with-us-idea-of-using-russian-assets-for-ukraine/ar-BB1nFdts?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=7b8fb8beaac04adc8300c9e39a2547b3&ei=19

Dargo

06-05-24, 01:58 PM

Russian offensive appears to be bogged down in chaosThe Russian offensive in Ukraine's Kharkiv region seems to be mired in chaos and heavy losses. And this while Ukraine has only just begun to deploy Western weapons against targets on Russian territory. 'This once again shows the failure of operational planning on the Russian side.' 1,290 military personnel, 15 tanks, 18 armored vehicles, 3 anti-aircraft systems, and as many as 65 artillery pieces and 69 trucks disabled. That, according to the Ukrainian General Staff, was the Russian toll of Monday's front-line fighting alone. While the figures cannot be independently verified, they are remarkably higher than they have been in recent weeks.

Reports and images are also coming from the lower echelons that hint at improvement since Russian forces launched a new offensive in Kharkiv on May 10. In the city of Vovchansk, the Ukrainian army was able to regain ground in recent days after being driven out of most of the city in recent weeks. “Our starting position is getting better and we are defeating the enemy,” Ukrainian commander Yuri Fedorenko told Ukrainian television Monday. “We are destroying equipment and reserves of the enemy, especially in Russia itself.”

For example, images appeared Monday of a burning Russian S-300 air defense system in Kiselyovo in the Russian border region of Belgorod, north of Kharkiv. According to Ukrainian sources, this was one of the first major hits by Western weapons on Russian territory since the United States gave the go-ahead Friday. It is likely that the S-300 was disabled from Ukraine by an American Himars missile system with a range of about 80 kilometers. A day earlier, a storage facility in the village of Shebekino, 7 kilometers from the Belgorod border, was also hit with what were probably Western weapons. According to Russia, it was a civilian target, but post-strike images showed remnants of Iskander ballistic missiles likely stored in the building. Such attacks are expected to intensify sharply in the coming days and weeks.

Military historian Tom Simoens (Royal Military School Brussels) says he is “less worried” for the first time in a long time, now that weapons from the U.S. aid package are starting to pour onto the battlefield AND Ukraine already in Kharkiv no longer has to reckon with restrictions on the use of their weapons. “I do not expect immediate improvement there for the Russians,” he said. "On the contrary, things will only get more difficult now, and this at a time when the offensive there had actually pretty much already come to a complete halt. The army has lost its momentum there." At the same time, the main Russian focus still remains the front in the east. At both Cheyiv Yar and Avdiivka, Russian forces are pounding into Ukrainian defense lines. According to the British Defense Ministry, those attacks are likely to continue as usual in the coming period, and the Donbas will remain “a significant operational focus” of the Russian military.

Simoens agrees, but also quietly sees bright spots for Ukraine here. "The Russian offensive near Kharkiv was presumably only meant to force Ukraine to pull out troops in other places. It did, but the Russians were apparently not ready to be able to force a major breakthrough after all. That again shows the bankruptcy of operational planning on the Russian side." The Russian military now faces “a big dilemma,” Simoens said. "To try to keep the small ground gains they have in Kharkiv, or to stop the offensive. But if they choose the latter, you have to ask: what good has it all done?" More to the point, with the Kharkiv offensive, the Kremlin has probably unintentionally shot itself in its own foot, Simoens believes. "This may come back like a boomerang in the face of the Russians. They themselves have brought that lifting of restrictions on Western weapons closer. Certainly in the long run that could work very much against them."

So has the expected Russian summer offensive failed in advance? “I wonder if that offensive hasn't been going on for a month,” Simoens said. "Right now the fiercest fighting is taking place since October. We have never seen more daily attacks since then than we are seeing now. Although, of course, that also does not mean that Russian striking power will soon run out. They still have the initiative, and Ukraine still has problems with training new recruits, among other things." Meanwhile, Russia continues to threaten escalation. Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov warned again Monday that the West is “underestimating the severity of the backlash they can expect back” now that Western weapons are allowed to be deployed on Russian territory. Simoens sees it as mostly propaganda and speaks of a “schizophrenic Russian position.” "Ukraine has been shooting at targets in Crimea for more than two years, while in Russian eyes the peninsula has been Russian territory for 10 years. The same with the four annexed regions to the east and south." https://www.demorgen.be/oorlog-in-oekraine/russisch-offensief-lijkt-te-verzanden-in-chaos-dit-kan-als-een-boemerang-in-het-gezicht-terugkomen~b864d05d/

Commander Wallace

06-05-24, 02:20 PM

Is there any news evidence that the US has authorized Ukrainian in using HIMARS, ATACMS and similar against Russian targets inside Russia? (Asking AI:chatgpt4)

Recent news indicates that the United States has not authorized Ukraine to use HIMARS, ATACMS, or similar weapons to strike deep into Russian territory. While the U.S. has provided Ukraine with advanced weaponry such as HIMARS and ATACMS, the authorization for their use is restricted to within Ukrainian borders or areas immediately involved in the conflict. This policy aims to avoid escalating the conflict by preventing strikes deep within Russian territory (Yahoo (https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-doesnt-allow-ukraine-long-135147698.html)) (IISS (https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/missile-dialogue-initiative/2023/10/ukraine-targets-russian-airfields-with-us-supplied-atacms-missile/#:~:text=URL%3A%20https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iiss.org%2Fonl ine)).

The U.S. has permitted the use of HIMARS and GMLRS (Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System) to target Russian positions that directly threaten Ukrainian territory, particularly in regions like Kharkiv Oblast (Yahoo (https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-doesnt-allow-ukraine-long-135147698.html)).

However, long-range ATACMS missiles are not included in this authorization and are intended for use within Ukraine's sovereign territory only (Euromaidan Press (https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/04/24/us-provides-ukraine-with-atacms-missiles-for-use-within-its-borders-state-department-confirms/)).

There have been reports of ATACMS being used by Ukraine, but these instances are within the context of their current conflict zones and not for strikes deep into Russian territory (Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/10/17/ukraine-uses-us-provided-long-range-atacms-missiles-against-russian-forces-first-time.html)).

This approach aligns with the U.S. strategy of supporting Ukraine's defense while minimizing the risk of a broader escalation involving NATO and Russia.

I rarely comment on Strategy or the use of weapons. However, I think it was a colossal mistake on the part of the U.S to limit the use of weapons we give to the Ukraine in defense of their homeland. Russia initiated and wanted this war. Russia doesn't observe any limitations in the bombing and killing of the Innocent. Ukraine shouldn't be hamstrung in how they orchestrate the defense of their homeland. The only thing Russia understand is getting a bloody nose. We in the U.S should help in those efforts.

Russia certainly did the same in Vietnam and also in the Korean war where Russia's own pilots fought directly against our people and flew MiG's against our F-86 sabre jets. Russia will sign it's own death warrant if it wants a wider war with the U.S and or against NATO as a whole.

To be fair, I understand the U.S not wanting a wider conflict but as Mick Jagger says, you can't always get what you want but you get what you need. In the case of Russia, you get what you deserve and asked for.

mapuc

06-05-24, 03:10 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAZ9tLLht9I&ab_channel=Military%26History

Markus

mapuc

06-05-24, 03:29 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WInCLoJ7GMQ&ab_channel=UkraineMatters

Markus

Otto Harkaman

06-05-24, 03:54 PM

I rarely comment on Strategy or the use of weapons. However, I think it was a colossal mistake on the part of the U.S to limit the use of weapons we give to the Ukraine in defense of their homeland. Russia initiated and wanted this war. Russia doesn't observe any limitations in the bombing and killing of the Innocent. Ukraine shouldn't be hamstrung in how they orchestrate the defense of their homeland. The only thing Russia understand is getting a bloody nose. We in the U.S should help in those efforts.

Russia certainly did the same in Vietnam and also in the Korean war where Russia's own pilots fought directly against our people and flew MiG's against our F-86 sabre jets. Russia will sign it's own death warrant if it wants a wider war with the U.S and or against NATO as a whole.

To be fair, I understand the U.S not wanting a wider conflict but as Mick Jagger says, you can't always get what you want but you get what you need. In the case of Russia, you get what you deserve and asked for.

I don't know if after 2 years and 4 months anybody is still trying to achieve a swift end to the war. It seems like they are willing to broaden it?

It could be the case like the South East Asia conflict that the different departments in the United States Government are fighting different wars in the same place hindering and confusing the situation.

Skybird

06-05-24, 05:01 PM

The US must balance its - limited - ressources versus its needs regarding China. American weapon production also meets its limits, regarding production output.

The latter problem is shared in Europe, just that in Europe the deficits in military productivity are even much worse, and the willingness NOT to adress this in full is quite big in some key player countries, namely Germany, which refuses Macron's talk of European independence in military production (whether he really means it is somehtign different, when the French say "Europe" they implicitly mean "France first"...) and prefers to just crawl back under the American umbrella, hoping that Trump or Biden will play nice with NATO.

Russia on the other hand has raced at exactly the opposite direction: it has switched to full war production, and to such a total degree where it needs the war to continue at any cost, if the economy should not instantly collapse.

Two sides, the one searching desperately a way to peace, the other as desperately depending on avoiding peace and continuing the war to prevail.

Interesting situation, to put it this way. :hmmm: As usual, my expectations of the future of this are utmost grim.

Also, a shortage of key ressources caps Western ammunition production.

Commander Wallace

06-05-24, 05:26 PM

I don't know if after 2 years and 4 months anybody is still trying to achieve a swift end to the war. It seems like they are willing to broaden it?

It could be the case like the South East Asia conflict that the different departments in the United States Government are fighting different wars in the same place hindering and confusing the situation.

It does seem that way or maybe people are wising up that you can't fight a War with your hands tied.

mapuc

06-05-24, 05:33 PM

Otto Harkaman

06-05-24, 08:36 PM

It does seem that way or maybe people are wising up that you can't fight a War with your hands tied.

Well whether all of us agree or not we are on a slippery slope to somewhere :ahoy:

mapuc

06-06-24, 10:40 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mufDP-gBfaM&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Jimbuna

06-06-24, 01:04 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2U6WlsAaRw

Jimbuna

06-06-24, 01:08 PM

Putin warns Russia could provide weapons to strike West

Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned that Moscow could arm countries with a view to attacking Western targets.

Mr Putin made the statement while criticising the West's delivery of long-range weapons to Ukraine.

Several countries including the United States have given Ukraine the green light to strike targets inside Russia.

Such action could lead to “very serious problems", Mr Putin told foreign reporters.

"If someone thinks it is possible to supply such weapons to a war zone to attack our territory and create problems for us, why don't we have the right to supply weapons of the same class to regions of the world where there will be strikes on sensitive facilities of those countries?" the Russian president said.

"That is, the response can be asymmetric. We will think about it."

He did not specify which countries Moscow could supply weapons to.

Mr Putin singled out Germany, which recently told Ukraine it was free to hit targets inside Russia with long-range German-made weapons.

"When they say that there will be more missiles which will hit targets on Russian territory, this definitively destroys Russian-German relations," Mr Putin said.

US President Joe Biden has given Ukraine permission to use American-supplied weapons to strike targets in Russia, but only near the Kharkiv region. The White House has said Ukraine cannot use long-range ATACMS missiles on Russian soil.

Ukraine has used US weapons to strike inside Russia in recent days, a US senator and a Western official told the Associated Press on Wednesday.

Fierce fighting has been raging north-east of Kharkiv since a new Russian push across Ukraine's northern border. Kharkiv, Ukraine's second city, is just 30km (18 miles) from the border.

UK Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron has said it is up to Ukraine to decide how to use British weapons and insisted it has the right to strike targets on Russian territory.

Ukraine says North Korean missiles are being used inside Ukrainian territory, and Western intelligence agencies say Russia has been using Iranian-made drones in the conflict.

Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

Mr Putin was speaking to foreign journalists at the annual St Petersburg International Economic Forum.

He also warned that the West was wrong to assume that Moscow would never use nuclear weapons.

"For some reason, the West believes that Russia will never use it," Mr Putin said when asked by Reuters about the risk of nuclear escalation over Ukraine.

"We have a nuclear doctrine, look what it says. If someone's actions threaten our sovereignty and territorial integrity, we consider it possible for us to use all means at our disposal.

"This should not be taken lightly, superficially."

Mr Putin also dismissed the idea that Russia has plans to attack Nato territory.

"You should not make Russia out to be the enemy. You're only hurting yourself with this, you know?" Mr Putin said.

"They thought that Russia wanted to attack Nato. Have you gone completely crazy? That is as thick as this table.

Who came up with this? It is just complete nonsense, you know? Total rubbish."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn44r9zjnpjo

Dargo

06-06-24, 01:28 PM

What will our coming history books tell the kids in the future about this war ?
That Russia outnumbered NATO 10/20 to 1 in ammo production and 5/10 to 1 in weapon production, but was outnumbered 10 to 1 in drones.

MarkusHistory books will read that Putin was a loser and that Russia could not win a war with a very small country. It can outnumber in anything, but it can not occupy any large important areas it does not have the will like Ukraine has to win this.

mapuc

06-06-24, 03:01 PM

History books will read that Putin was a loser and that Russia could not win a war with a very small country. It can outnumber in anything, but it can not occupy any large important areas it does not have the will like Ukraine has to win this.

May you be right in your prediction

Don't know how the eastern Europe would look like if Russia would win the war and what the history books would tell our coming pupils about it.

One thing I'm sure of, is this:
The war ended a year after the US/NATO withdraw their support to Ukraine, after Russia had bombed several keypoints in eastern Europe, belonging to NATO. NATO had the motto: "Better escape-than fighting badly"
(This would never happen)

Markus

ET2SN

06-06-24, 06:22 PM

Putin warns Russia could provide weapons to strike West
He did not specify which countries Moscow could supply weapons to.

Well, there's Belarus and then there's... um, Belarus.. :hmmm:
Last time I checked, Belarus was in no hurry to #### off Poland so, what could go wrong? :up:

Oubaas

06-06-24, 06:36 PM

Well, there's Belarus and then there's... um, Belarus.. :hmmm:
Last time I checked, Belarus was in no hurry to #### off Poland so, what could go wrong? :up:

The Houthis, New Caledonia, the IRA, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Cuba, Nicaragua, quite a few places in Africa, Hezbollah, lots of possibilities.

And everyone thinks bombs, missiles, and artillery shells when they hear "weapons". What if he starts handing out vials of amplified smallpox, or some highly contagious bacteria that have been genetically engineered to produce cobra venom as a by-product of their cellular metabolism?

I see a bad moon rising.

Jimbuna

06-07-24, 12:23 PM

Danger level is very high: Russia deploys surface missile carriers in Black Sea

The Russian Federation has deployed three surface missile carriers in the Black Sea. The level of danger is currently very high, according to the Southern Defense Forces of Ukraine on Telegram.

"The enemy has deployed three surface missile carriers in the Black Sea, equipped with up to 24 Kalibr-type missiles. The level of danger is very high!" the message states.

Ukrainians are urged to pay close attention to air raid signals. In case of an alert, it is crucial to promptly move to shelters.

It is worth noting that on the night of May 19, the missile ship Tsiklon was hit and sunk in Sevastopol. It was the last cruise missile carrier in Crimea but interestingly, it never managed to launch a single missile.
Other Russian ships of Project 22800 have also been disabled or have left the Black Sea. Specifically, the ship Askold was eliminated by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and Amur and Tucha were forced to leave the Black Sea, heading to the Caspian Sea via Rostov for testing.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/danger-level-is-very-high-russia-deploys-surface-missile-carriers-in-black-sea/ar-BB1nLzO6?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=980d8f6f50b540efb097bfa22d127c5a&ei=17

Jimbuna

06-07-24, 12:35 PM

Biden announces $225m arms package for Ukraine as he meets with Zelensky in France

The US will soon dispatch an arms and aid package to Ukraine amounting to $225million as Kyiv works to repel renewed Russian attacks, President Joe Biden said on Friday.

Biden announced the new tranche of defense assistance in Paris during a meeting with Volodymyr Zelensky, a day after the Ukrainian president joined the US president and other world leaders for ceremonies commemorating the 80th anniversary of D-Day.

In remarks at the American cemetery in Normandy during the ceremony, Biden had described Ukraine’s fight against Russia as a modern-day analog of the war against Hitler and Nazism while stressing the importance of beating back isolationist sentiment, providing an implicit contrast with his predecessor and likely 2024 election opponent, former president Donald Trump.

Sitting alongside Zelensky on Friday, Biden again told the Ukrainian leader that the US would “stand with [him]” and praised the country’s resistance to Russia’s invasion, specifically how forces have pushed back on Moscow’s offensive in the city of Kharkiv.

“The way you’ve stood in holding onto Kharkiv, you’ve proven once again that the people of Ukraine cannot and will never be overtaken ... you are the bulwark against the aggression that’s taking place. We have an obligation to be there,” Biden said.

“You haven’t bowed down. You haven’t yielded at all. You continue to fight in a way that is just remarkable, just remarkable.”

“We’re not going to walk away from you,” he added.

Biden also apologized for the months-long delay in approving new aid to Ukraine, caused by Republicans in Congress who opposed the defense assistance at the behest of former president Donald Trump.

“We had trouble getting the bill that we had to pass that had the money in it. Some of our very conservative members were holding it up. But we got it done finally,” Biden said.

The president has repeatedly linked Ukraine’s defense to a broader struggle between democracy and autocracy — a theme which dovetails with the one he has used to describe his re-election fight against Trump. The presumptive Republican nominee has threatened to cut off all aid to Ukraine if he wins the November presidential election.

Zelensky thanked Biden for the continued US support and said it was “very important” for America to stand with Ukraine the way the western allies stood together during the Second World War, “shoulder to shoulder.”

“We are with you, with our strategic partner,” Zelensky said.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/biden-announces-225m-arms-package-for-ukraine-as-he-meets-with-zelensky-in-france/ar-BB1nO6IB?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=c2d0e7dea99a416795557c136f9c7374&ei=67

Dargo

06-07-24, 12:39 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfO8xBz-S3c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me18_Zk7030

Jimbuna

06-07-24, 01:16 PM

War Spreads: Russia Believed to be Behind 3 Mysterious Sabotage Attacks Across Europe

Mysterious fires broke out in shopping centers and warehouses across Europe, believed to have been the handiwork of saboteurs from Russia.

Knewz.com has learned that the Polish Prime Minister was the first to suggest that the Western bloc might be under sabotage attack from Russian spies.

The first fire was caused in March 2024, at a warehouse in East London which was being used to supply aid to Ukraine.

Following the London incident, an Ikea outlet in Vilnius, Lithuania, went up in flames under mysterious circumstances.

The third attack targeted the largest shopping center in Warsaw, the Marywilska 44, following which Donald Tusk, the Prime Minister of Poland, theorized that Vladimir Putin's elaborate network of spies and saboteurs could be behind the arson attacks all over Europe.
"We are examining the threads – they are quite likely – that the Russian services had something to do with the Marywilska fire," Tusk said in a statement in May, via The Telegraph.

However, given the massive crackdown on Putin's espionage network in Europe and the United Kingdom, Russia had to look for alternative avenues to carry out clandestine strikes on foreign soil.

According to an intelligence assessment shared with the Western governments, the Russian military intelligence agency GRU currently employs local criminals to do their bidding, replacing the need to plant the Kremlin's own saboteurs in each nation.

It is worth noting that a 20-year-old British national was arrested back in April for orchestrating the arson at the London warehouse upon orders from Russia. Court documents cited by CBS News at the time alleged that the man, who was a resident of Leicestershire in central England, was connected to the Russian mercenary group Wagner.

"He is accused of organizing and paying for an arson attack on two units on an industrial estate in Leyton, east London, on March 20, which required 60 firefighters to bring under control," CBS wrote in its report.

The London arson was also followed by the expulsion of Colonel Maxim Elovik, Moscow’s defense attache in the U.K.

The Telegraph added that a former Russian soldier was recently arrested in Paris after explosives detonated in his hotel room.

While the entities being employed by Russia to carry out sabotages and espionage attacks in the West are not as skilled as GRU operatives, they are still effective in accomplishing the objectives Russia aspires for in the Western bloc.

"The capabilities these gangs can provide are pretty low-level, but they can still achieve Russian foreign policy objectives, namely, destabilizing the West, deterring European decision-makers against supporting Ukraine and exacerbating polarisation and societal tensions across not only NATO but the European Union," Alexander Lord, lead Europe-Eurasia analyst at Sibylline, a geopolitical risk firm, told The Telegraph.

However, their lack of skill poses another significant problem, as a counter-intelligence officer explained in a statement to the outlet: "There is a greater chance of collateral damage and casualties as the proxies are not skilled in tradecraft, such as explosives."

On the other hand, the illegal operatives Russia has deployed as a replacement for its displaced spy network have proven to be especially sloppy and susceptible to capture.

Sources familiar with the current Russian espionage network told The Daily Express that the Kremlin's spies cannot stay operational for very long nowadays and their network can be disrupted with incredible ease.

"Almost every intelligence operation they have now is incredibly stupid and they are now almost an embarrassment. When they have tried to prop someone up, they don't stay operational [for long]. You can disrupt them a mile away," the source who spoke to the outlet stated.

It is worth noting that Estonia detained ten alleged saboteurs believed to be operating under orders from Russia as part of a “hybrid operation” by the Russian special services back in February.

Officials from the Security Service said at the time that the alleged saboteurs assumed a variety of roles in the covert operation in Estonia, from collecting intelligence to planning and executing attacks, based on the instructions they were provided by their handlers in Russia.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/war-spreads-russia-believed-to-be-behind-3-mysterious-sabotage-attacks-across-europe/ar-BB1nPfnP?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=68780094ddb74e369fddbefadd6f41a1&ei=12

Dargo

06-07-24, 01:22 PM

Manufacturer of Caesar artillery systems announces plans to build plant in UkraineThe Franco-German company KNDS announced on Friday, 7 June, that it would set up a subsidiary in Ukraine.

Source: European Pravda, citing BFMTV, French news broadcast television and radio network

Details: The announcement was made in the presence of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Representatives of the KNDS and the Ukrainian company ENMEK signed two declarations of intent, one of which concerns the creation of a maintenance centre for Caesar self-propelled howitzers (SPHs), and the other relates to the 3D printing of spare parts. A contract was also formalised for the transfer of licensed production of 155mm shells to Ukraine. KNDS produces artillery systems and main battle tanks, as well as Caesar SPHs used by Ukraine's Armed Forces.

Background:
In late March, French Defence Minister Sébastien Lecornu and his German counterpart Boris Pistorius announced that the plant would produce military equipment and ammunition on Ukrainian soil.
In addition, talks between President Zelenskyy and his US counterpart Joe Biden commenced in the French capital of Paris, where the White House announced a new US$225 million aid package for Ukraine (https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3799832/biden-administration-announces-additional-security-assistance-for-ukraine/).
Media reports indicate that the announced package includes, among other things, air defence missiles, Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, Javelin and AT-4 anti-tank systems, 155mm howitzers, armoured vehicles, trailers, patrol boats, demolition materials and a wide range of other spare parts and equipment.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/06/7/7459691/

Dargo

06-07-24, 02:04 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9uRDRYLe7c

Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)

mapuc

06-07-24, 02:35 PM

5000 killed and 15.000 wounded or missing each month, is way to high, even for an army like the Russians.

The word meatgrinder fits fine here

Markus

mapuc

06-07-24, 02:46 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYwjWv6NCXM&ab_channel=Military%26History

Markus

Skybird

06-07-24, 03:26 PM

Its important to keep in mind what the Mirage 2000 probably is not so good for: air to air combat versus agile enemy fighter jets. It was developed to hunt down high flying, fast flying bombers, speed and altitude that it can acchieve are bought at the cost of agility, due to the design of delta wings and the lack of separate elevator planes on the tail.

It can do well in the role of intercepting cruise missiles, big drones, and as as launching platform for air-borne cruise missiles and missiles, giving the latter a slight range bonus if fired from the plane at high speed and altitude.

How it can deal with modern electronic warfare environments and how its' ECM can defend against Russian anti air missiles, I have no idea. By the record from Israel's use of Mirages I would conclude that it needs a really well skilled, well experienced pilot to shine who knows the plane very well. I think it will be more difficult to learn than the F-16, and the F-16 already has its - complexities... Thats why I do not expect the Mirages to fly in Ukraine any time soon. Next year. Late in next year. Trainign Ukrainian piltos on them will probaly take logner than for the F-16, and that training already is not up to the timetabl, but lags behind.

It also needs a comlet new logistics chain, engineer trainign and so forth. Plenty of additional complications. It would be better if the Ukrainians would just get more Vipers. And supporting these and preparing airfields for them already is a challenge.

Stations for Western-made fighters will, like Western-raised military production facilities inside Ukraine, not escape Russian eyes for long. Fighters can be swapped back and forth between airfields to reduce their risk to get caught in a bombardment on the ground. Factories cannot. Even less with he sort of air defence we see in Ukraine - insufficient air defences, that is. Also, factories need power. Most of Ukraine's power production is down, and gets degraded further with every week passing by. Militarily it makes no sense to now invest isnide Ukraine. It should instead be done on NATO territory, close to the borders with Ukraine. And one should be prepared for everything. If Russia attacks NAOT soil with it sown fire, then we must be willign to make it pay.

Thats the meaning of "deterrance".

--------

Media report of several sabotge attacks throughout Europe, fires laid in warehouses and the likes. These attacks are attributed to Russia. Plus the attackls ion energy ifnratsrutcure, caber attacks, election interferences, media maniulations, cirmnjnal backmailiugn attaks in the cyberpsace.

Russia is already at war with us - whether we want to admit it or not. And it preceded the start of the war in Ukraine by years.

mapuc

06-07-24, 04:58 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8qVOdygE2g&ab_channel=TheIcarusProject

Markus

Skybird

06-07-24, 08:07 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8qVOdygE2g&ab_channel=TheIcarusProject

Markus
I think we all agree that if the West would throw all its military competence and economic superiority into this war, Russia hardly would stand a chance to hold together. The two concenrs I have and always had is whether Wester goivernments would come up with the needed determination, and whether the military options of the West realkly would be played out in full, if need be, and Ukraine beign given what it needs to fight AND WIN the war. My scepticism never was about the principal possibility to defeta Russia, but about bringing up the amount of support in material deliveries that it takes. I currently do not see Ukraine winning, because I do not see that it has enough men, ammunition, weapons. Give them what they need, and Russia will start to cry.

So far, as I see it, we gave them too little, too late. Always too little, too late. If the videos conclusions should turn out to get true, we must change that.

mapuc

06-08-24, 11:11 AM

I think we all agree that if the West would throw all its military competence and economic superiority into this war, Russia hardly would stand a chance to hold together. The two concenrs I have and always had is whether Wester goivernments would come up with the needed determination, and whether the military options of the West realkly would be played out in full, if need be, and Ukraine beign given what it needs to fight AND WIN the war. My scepticism never was about the principal possibility to defeta Russia, but about bringing up the amount of support in material deliveries that it takes. I currently do not see Ukraine winning, because I do not see that it has enough men, ammunition, weapons. Give them what they need, and Russia will start to cry.

So far, as I see it, we gave them too little, too late. Always too little, too late. If the videos conclusions should turn out to get true, we must change that.

Funny you should say this, because some hours after I posted my video I read an interesting article in a Danish news paper and I didn't translate it, so it will be from memory

" Europe can't withstand a Russian assault, they are to weak and we have more tactical nukes than Europe-USA may support Europe with tactical nukes, but we will have more than them "

Edit
Found the English version of this article
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn00e422yr2o
End edit

Markus

Dargo

06-08-24, 12:04 PM

Funny you should say this, because some hours after I posted my video I read an interesting article in a Danish news paper and I didn't translate it, so it will be from memory

" Europe can't withstand a Russian assault, they are to weak and we have more tactical nukes than Europe-USA may support Europe with tactical nukes, but we will have more than them "

Edit
Found the English version of this article
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn00e422yr2o
End edit

MarkusAs of 2024, NATO had approximately 3.39 million active military personnel, compared with 1.32 million active military personnel in the Russian military. The collective military capabilities of the 32 countries that make up NATO outnumber Russia in terms of aircraft, at 22,308 to 4,814, and in naval power, with 2,258 military ships, to 781. Russia's ground combat vehicle capacity is more competitive, however, with 14,777 main battle tanks, to NATO's 11,390. The combined nuclear arsenal of the United States, United Kingdom, and France amounted to 5,943 nuclear warheads, compared with Russia's 5,977. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293174/nato-russia-military-comparison/

Jimbuna

06-08-24, 12:36 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faMAn20znzk

mapuc

06-08-24, 12:46 PM

Yes good question - Why first now ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxbwQq91ceI&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Jimbuna

06-08-24, 12:57 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tot56eCxG-U

Dargo

06-08-24, 01:29 PM

Yes good question - Why first now ?

MarkusLets hope it is the beginning of a policy to end this war, hope Putin realizes this can not be won and starts to prepare Russia that the solution has to become other than military.

Jimbuna

06-08-24, 01:32 PM

Lets hope it is the beginning of a policy to end this war, hope Putin realizes this can not be won and starts to prepare Russia that the solution has to become other than military.

More chance of you getting bitten on the bottom by a cabbage than that happening :03:

Catfish

06-08-24, 02:15 PM

Directed at Putin, if not only:
"A liar is someone whose words are false.
A liar can not be trusted."

mapuc

06-08-24, 02:33 PM

Lets hope it is the beginning of a policy to end this war, hope Putin realizes this can not be won and starts to prepare Russia that the solution has to become other than military.

Could also mean the opposite. In which Putin prepare the citizens for a total war against Ukraine or in other words brainwash his peasant even more.

Markus

Skybird

06-08-24, 03:29 PM

Fear the old men, they have nothing left to lose. Putin is a prisoner. His prison is his own mind. The prison guards are the necessities of his mere survival. He has created them himself. For him, there is no escape other than a bullet through his head.

Catfish

06-08-24, 03:32 PM

Kyiv is buying the west time on the precipice of a world war. Is it being used wisely?

Or as polish foreign minister Radosław Sikorski puts it: “Ukraine has bought us time. Will we put it to good use?”

"The same mistake was made in 1938 when tensions in Abyssinia, Japan and Germany were treated as isolated events. The proximate causes of the current conflicts in Ukraine, the Middle East, the South China Sea and even Armenia might be different, but the bigger picture showed an interconnected battlefield in which post-cold war certainties had given way to “great-power competition” in which authoritarian leaders were testing the boundaries of their empires. The lesson – and necessity – was to resist and rearm. “The lesson from 1938 and 1939 is that if aggression pays off somewhere, it serves as an invitation to use it elsewhere."

A lot of people seem to embrace a "new" (lmao) authoritarian world order, I just wonder what makes people tick, be it in the US or Europe, or anywhere. Africa probably does not know better, and a lot the west seem to be indifferent, bored, or decadent. But do you really want to live in a state like China or Russia?

mapuc

06-08-24, 03:35 PM

As promised the message has been removed

Markus

Dargo

06-09-24, 11:39 AM

The FearlessAn elite squad of fighters has been on the front lines of every major battle for Ukraine’s independence. This is the story of their war.

The Ukrainian military helicopter had been shot down about seven kilometres behind Russian lines, crashing in a field browned by winter, on the edge of a leafless forest. Those aboard were scattered dead and mortally wounded across the burning landscape of southern Ukraine weeks after the Russian invasion. Trying to reach the casualties – the crew of the helicopter, plus fighters who had been rescued from the besieged port city of Mariupol before the craft was shot down on its return trip – would be something close to a suicide mission. The last person who should have taken the assignment was Nazar Borovytskyi. The helicopter missions into Mariupol were seen as so risky that each team – usually a pilot, a mechanic and two special-forces fighters from Ukraine’s HUR military intelligence service – was only supposed to make the trip once. The soldiers joked among themselves that they were volunteering for seats on a one-way flight... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-the-fearless-ukraine-soldiers-front-lines/

Jimbuna

06-09-24, 12:09 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wgUJZl5YqA

Jimbuna

06-09-24, 12:22 PM

Russian army in crisis as over 10,000 desert in major collapse of morale

Russia's army is facing another wave of desertion, as morale among its frontline troops plummets to new lows.

Despite its overwhelming advantages in manpower and weapons, Putin's commanders are once again struggling to make any major progress.

After initial gains in Kharkiv province in early May, Russia's army now finds itself bogged down in heavy fighting for the city of Vovchansk in Ukraine's northeast.

In the Donbas, Russian commanders are also struggling to make any major breakthroughs after finally capturing Avdiivka in February.

Putin's troops are currently tied down in fierce battles for control of the strategically important city of Chasiv Yar.

All the while, Ukraine's military continues to inflict crippling losses on their enemies.
The UK's Ministry of Defence estimates that Russia lost 1,200 soldiers per day during fighting in May.

Overall British defence officials believe Putin's army has suffered a staggering 450,000 casualties in just over two years of war.

This compares to the 15,000 the Soviet Union lost during ten years of conflict in Afghanistan.

New evidence now appears to show that Russian soldiers have begun to desert again in large numbers, as they desperately try to save themselves from the merciless meat grinder.

An information flyer produced by Russian officials and distributed to the army highlights court cases brought against soldiers from the 1195 motorised rifle regiment.

A total of 115 soldiers failed to return from army leave and have been sentenced to jail time or are facing upcoming court cases.

Twenty-seven have already been sent down, 78 are awaiting trial, while 10 are still being investigated.

The soldiers are being charged according to article 337 of the Russian criminal code for the "unauthorised abandonment of a unit" and could face up to 10 years in prison.

Earlier in May, Ukraine's Intelligence agency claimed that over 18,000 soldiers of the Southern Military District had absconded.

Roughly 12,000 of them were serving in the 8th Combined Arms Army - a unit often deployed to eastern Ukraine.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/putin-s-daughters-steal-the-spotlight-at-st-petersburg-economic-forum/ar-BB1nTh2J?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=1837d74fed36425c911cf29f8becb0d3&ei=26

Rockstar

06-09-24, 12:36 PM

….

How it can deal with modern electronic warfare environments and how its' ECM can defend against Russian anti air missiles, I have no idea. By the record from Israel's use of Mirages I would conclude that it needs a really well skilled, well experienced pilot to shine who knows the plane very well. I think it will be more difficult to learn than the F-16, and the F-16 already has its - complexities... Thats why I do not expect the Mirages to fly in Ukraine any time soon. Next year. Late in next year. Trainign Ukrainian piltos on them will probaly take logner than for the F-16, and that training already is not up to the timetabl, but lags behind.

It also needs a comlet new logistics chain, engineer trainign and so forth. Plenty of additional complications. It would be better if the Ukrainians would just get more Vipers. And supporting these and preparing airfields for them already is a challenge.

.

It does take an incredible amount of intelligence, time and training for a pilot to fly combat missions in a F16.

For our own prospective candidates fresh out of the Academy they first under go 12 months under graduate pilot training. 3 months lead-in-fighter training. 1 month for land, combat and water survival. One week for centrifuge training. Then move on to F-16 training which takes 6 months. And finally 4-6 months at operational unit to earn your Combat Mission Ready Status.

I read an August of 2023 article which stated Ukraine had sent 32 pilots to the U.S. and U.K. Out of those 32 only 8 were proficient enough in the English language to begin training. The others were in the process of learning the language and were expected to begin training by the end of 2023. I’m just not sure if the 8 went on to flight training or if they went together as a group. Either way Im fairly certain training has began.

One U.S. military official tried to make it clear the F16 is not ‘game changer’. It will simply allow Ukraine to utilize a greater variety of modern weapons and detection systems. He also mention most of the undergrad portion will likely scaled back since they should already know the basics of flight.

Jimbuna

06-09-24, 12:53 PM

Russia's losses in Ukraine as of June 9: Over 1,200 troops, 26 tanks and 60 artillery systems

Russia's losses in the war against Ukraine during the day from June 8 to 9 amounted to 1,270 occupiers. In total, since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, the aggressor country has lost 518,560 soldiers. In addition, over the past day, the Defense Forces of Ukraine destroyed 26 tanks and 60 enemy artillery systems, according to the command of the Ukrainian Ground Forces.

The total Russian combat losses from February 24, 2022, to June 9, 2024, are estimated as follows:

・Personnel: 518,560 (+1,270) eliminated

・Tanks: 7,869 (+26)

・APV (Armored personnel vehicles): 15,131 (+26)

・Artillery systems: 13,593 (+60)

・MLRS (Multiple launch rocket systems): 1,097 (+2)

・Anti aircraft warfare systems: 836 (+2)
・Aircraft: 357

・Helicopters: 326

・UAVs operational-tactical level: 10,982 (+37)

・Cruise missiles: 2,277 (+7)

・Warships/boats: 28 (+1)

・Submarines: 1

・Vehicles and fuel tankers: 18,562 (+78)

・Special equipment: 2,253 (+5)

According to the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Russia failed to execute the Kharkiv operation. Ukrainian forces will further strengthen this direction.

As reported by RBC-Ukraine, Russian reserves of 60,000 personnel are likely insufficient for simultaneous large-scale offensives on several fronts. This conclusion was reached by analysts at the American Institute for the Study of War (ISW).
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-s-losses-in-ukraine-as-of-june-9-over-1-200-troops-26-tanks-and-60-artillery-systems/ar-BB1nTkry?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=101852b9043d4ffea91121efa8bd1b21&ei=22

mapuc

06-09-24, 05:01 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4T4zuJfOsA&ab_channel=TheInfographicsShow

Markus

Skybird

06-09-24, 06:43 PM

It does take an incredible amount of intelligence, time and training for a pilot to fly combat missions in a F16.

For our own prospective candidates fresh out of the Academy they first under go 12 months under graduate pilot training. 3 months lead-in-fighter training. 1 month for land, combat and water survival. One week for centrifuge training. Then move on to F-16 training which takes 6 months. And finally 4-6 months at operational unit to earn your Combat Mission Ready Status.

I read an August of 2023 article which stated Ukraine had sent 32 pilots to the U.S. and U.K. Out of those 32 only 8 were proficient enough in the English language to begin training. The others were in the process of learning the language and were expected to begin training by the end of 2023. I’m just not sure if the 8 went on to flight training or if they went together as a group. Either way Im fairly certain training has began.

One U.S. military official tried to make it clear the F16 is not ‘game changer’. It will simply allow Ukraine to utilize a greater variety of modern weapons and detection systems. He also mention most of the undergrad portion will likely scaled back since they should already know the basics of flight.
So its fair to think that all this will take even longer in the Mirages. And the new logistics chain needed, new engineering/maintenance knowledge...

I think this is again more talk than deed by the French. The Mirage 2000s were phased out anyway. Like their - few - light recce tanks, they just empty their garbage bin, it seems.

Rockstar

06-10-24, 04:59 AM

So its fair to think that all this will take even longer in the Mirages. And the new logistics chain needed, new engineering/maintenance knowledge...

I think this is again more talk than deed by the French. The Mirage 2000s were phased out anyway. Like their - few - light recce tanks, they just empty their garbage bin, it seems.

Ya there’s a tad bit more to it than just giving our advanced aircraft away.

Linked below is a Congressional Research Report from March 2023 titled Transferring Fighter Aircraft to Ukraine: Issues and Options for Congress. Offers some thoughts on the challenges of transferring advanced western fighter aircraft to Ukraine.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47476

Jimbuna

06-10-24, 08:59 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUcKXnXqpQ

mapuc

06-10-24, 12:43 PM

The theory is that Russian forces will continue to make incremental advances indefinitely, that Ukraine will be unable to mount any significant counteroffensives, and that Russia may ultimately win a war of attrition against Ukrainian forces.

https://nyheder-tv2-dk.translate.goog/udland/2024-06-08-putin-har-en-plan-for-russisk-sejr-men-den-afhaenger-af-en-faktor-som-russerne-ikke-kan-kontrollere?_x_tr_sl=da&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=da&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Markus

Jimbuna

06-10-24, 01:06 PM

Confident Putin warns Europe is ‘defenceless’

Ever since Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Moscow has been engaged in nuclear sabre-rattling, dropping a series of not-so-subtle hints that trying to defeat a nuclear power like Russia could have disastrous consequences for those who try.

Today President Putin claimed that Russia wouldn’t need to use a nuclear weapon to achieve victory in Ukraine.

He was being interviewed at a panel discussion at the St Petersburg International Economic Forum: the annual event often described as ‘Russia’s Davos’.

There are few occasions when Mr Putin looks dovish compared to the person asking him the questions.

But when the person asking the questions is Sergei Karaganov it would be hard not to. Mr Karaganov is a hawkish Russian foreign policy expert. Last year he called for a pre-emptive nuclear strike. Today he suggested holding a “nuclear pistol” to the temple of the West over Ukraine.

President Putin wasn’t so extreme in his language.

But he is no dove.

The Kremlin leader said he did not rule out changes to Russia’s nuclear doctrine: the document which sets out the conditions under which Russia would use nuclear weapons.

“This doctrine is a living tool and we are carefully watching what is happening in the world around us and do not exclude making changes to this doctrine. This is also related to the testing of nuclear weapons.”

And he delivered a warning to those European countries who’ve been supporting Ukraine: Russia has “many more [tactical nuclear weapons] than there are on the European continent, even if the United States brings theirs over.”

“Europe does not have a developed [early warning system],” he added. “In this sense they are more or less defenceless.”

Tactical nuclear weapons are smaller warheads designed to destroy targets without widespread radioactive fallout.

This has been a surreal week in St Petersburg. On the one hand, a huge international economic forum has been taking place , sending the message that Russia is ready for cooperation and that, despite everything, it’s business as usual.

Clearly, though, it is not business as usual. Russia is waging war in Ukraine, a war which is now in its third year; as a result, Russia is the most heavily sanctioned country in the world.

And, right now, tensions are soaring between Russia and the West.

Earlier this week, at a meeting with international news agency chiefs in St Petersburg, President Putin suggested that Russia might supply advanced conventional long-range weapons to others to strike Western targets.

This was his response to Nato allies allowing Ukraine to strike Russian territory with Western-supplied weapons.

He repeated the idea again today.

“We are not supplying those weapons yet, but we reserve the right to do so to those states or legal entities which are under certain pressure, including military pressure, from the countries that supply weapons to Ukraine and encourage their use on Russian territory.”

There were no details. No names.

So, to which parts of the world might Russia deploy its missiles?

“Wherever we think it is necessary, we’re definitely going to put them. As President Putin made clear, we’ll investigate this question,” Vladimir Solovyov, one of Russian state TV’s most prominent hosts, tells me.

“If you are trying to harm us you have to be pretty sure we have enough opportunities and chances to harm you.”

“In the West some will say we’ve heard this sabre-rattling before,” I respond, “and that it’s a bluff.”

“It’s always a bluff. Until the time when it is not,” Mr Solovyov replies. “You can keep thinking that Russia is bluffing and then, one day, there is no more Great Britain to laugh at. Don’t you ever try to push the Russian bear thinking that ‘Oh, it’s a kitten, we can play with it.”

CEOs from Europe and America used to flock to the St Petersburg International Economic Forum. Not any more. Instead I saw delegations from Asia, Africa, the Middle East and South America. Russia has been using this year’s event to try to show that, despite Western sanctions, there are plenty of countries in the world who are ready to do business with Russia.

And what have we learnt in St Petersburg about Vladimir Putin?

That he sounds increasingly confident and determined not to back down. He seems to believe that in the current standoff between Russia and the West, it is the West that will blink first.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn00e422yr2o

mapuc

06-10-24, 04:59 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U0gbsGHVXo&ab_channel=UkraineMatters

Markus

Jimbuna

06-11-24, 07:10 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZb6mmgTMWA

mapuc

06-11-24, 10:35 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxcyjgb7Aao&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

em2nought

06-11-24, 12:24 PM

Our beloved Federal gov't has handed over $175 billion and counting. Meanwhile our southern border is non-existent. :har: If it was anyone other than by and large white dudes that the money was being used to knock off I'm sure there would be protests at all of our supposed centers of higher learning. :har: White dudes killing white dudes, we sure are some kind of stupid. :har:

Jimbuna

06-11-24, 12:50 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYHNS6k24NQ

August

06-11-24, 01:22 PM

If Russia wipes Britain off the map as their propagandists threaten then NATO will respond in kind. Not much consolation to the British people but at least they would be avenged and their murderers would face justice.

mapuc

06-11-24, 04:52 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKuxZHVcVqc&ab_channel=TheMilitaryShow

Markus

mapuc

06-11-24, 05:31 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7-t2YKU4wo&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Jimbuna

06-12-24, 08:05 AM

Russia's losses in Ukraine as of June 12: Over 900 soldiers and 46 artillery systems

Russia's losses in the war in Ukraine for the period from June 11 to June 12 amounted to 980 soldiers. Overall, since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, the Russian Federation has lost over 521,830 military personnel, according to the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

The total combat losses of the enemy from February 24, 2022, to June 12, 2024, are approximately as follows:

・personnel - 521,830 (+980) individuals eliminated;

・tanks - 7,911 (+9) units;

・armoured personnel vehicles - 15,187 (+11) units;

・artillery systems - 13,736 (+46) units;

・MLRS - 1,099 (+0) units;

・anti-aircraft warfare systems - 844 (+2) units;

・aircraft - 359 (0) units;

・helicopters - 326 units;

・UAV operational-tactical level - 844 (+2) units;
・cruise missiles - 2,280 (+2) units;

・warships/boats - 28 units;

・submarines - 1 unit;

・vehicles & fuel tanks - 18,736 (+60) units;

・special equipment - 2,290 (+2) units.

The Institute for the Study of War reports that the Ukrainian Defense Forces have regained lost positions in the direction of Lyptsi in the northern Kharkiv region, where the Russian Federation attempted to launch a new large-scale offensive.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-s-losses-in-ukraine-as-of-june-12-over-900-soldiers-and-46-artillery-systems/ar-BB1o4ywD?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=c02bc1daa91a4daeb26e21d146940f7d&ei=33

Jimbuna

06-12-24, 08:26 AM

Ukraine extends blackouts as Russian bombings continue

Ukrainians are facing extended blackouts of up to eight hours on Wednesday, as their country grapples with severe damage to its power stations, caused by ongoing Russian attacks.

President Volodymyr Zelensky, speaking on Tuesday at a conference on the reconstruction of Ukraine, said Russia had destroyed half of his country’s electricity-generating capacity, since it began pummelling its energy facilities in late March.

Residents in the capital Kyiv, with a population of three million, are facing some of the most significant power shortages. The hum of generators reverberates though the city, while at night streets are now often coated in darkness.

Families with young children living on the top floors of apartment blocks have been left without working lifts, leaving them to walk up dozens of flights of stairs, sometimes with young children.

Ukraine is buying energy from the European Union to try to cover its shortfall. Its energy ministry said it was planning on Wednesday to import its largest amount of power to date. However, this is not enough to make up its deficit, meaning nationwide power cuts have been planned during an eight-hour window, from 3pm to 11pm, in order to protect critical infrastructure such a hospitals and military facilities.

The situation is expected to worsen as summer temperatures climb and people turn on their air-conditioning units.

If Russia continues to attack power plants, the worst-case scenario is that come winter Ukrainians could be spending up to 20 hours a day without power and heating. Part of the issue is that Ukraine’s thermal and hydroelectric power stations are difficult and expensive to fix.

“Some will take years to repair, and others might never be brought back online” said Maria Tsaturian from Ukrenergo, Ukraine’s national energy operator.

Overnight, Russia launched missile and drone attacks across Ukraine, including on the capital Kyiv, where the blasting sound of air defences could be heard in the early hours of the morning.

The head of Kyiv’s military, Serhiy Popko, said nothing had got past the city’s air defence systems. However, an energy facility in the north-eastern Sumy region was damaged in the attack.

Oleg Strilka, from Sumy’s State Emergency Service, told the BBC that one of the effects of such prolonged power cuts was that people were plugging in all their electrical devices at the same time once the electricity returned, causing fires. “Over the past month we have been rescuing children and the elderly from smoke-filled homes,” he said.

Mr Zelensky has told Western countries he needs another seven sophisticated air defence systems, called Patriots, in order to protect Ukraine’s cities and energy infrastructure. According to US media, Washington has agreed to send another such system to Ukraine in the coming days.

The Ukrainian government is preparing for a global peace summit being held in Switzerland this weekend, which aims to bring together as many countries as possible in support of its 10-point peace plan, which hinges around Russia withdrawing from all Ukrainian territory. Critically Russia has not been invited, and influential counties including China, and possibly Brazil and South Africa, will not be attending.

Recognising the limitations of the conference, President Zelensky’s chief of staff, Andriy Yermak, said yesterday that Ukraine hoped to first build a broad platform of support, before then exploring the possibility of holding a second summit, which Russia would be invited to.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0xx5vd4l2do

mapuc

06-12-24, 04:35 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-ztd_pHAuI&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

em2nought

06-12-24, 11:42 PM

Just peachy! ...and now there are Russian warships visiting Cuba. If Putin is the danger they think he is then I'd think they'd be wary of backing him into a corner especially from a nuclear point of view. I wonder if Putin has some of those Martin Sheen pajamas? :hmmm:

Skybird

06-13-24, 09:16 AM

https://www.nzz.ch/international/ukraine-krieg-blockierte-der-westen-2022-einen-frieden-mit-russland-ld.1834618?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de

Would peace between Russia and Ukraine have been possible two years ago? In the hope of a quick end to the war, Ukraine was prepared to make painful compromises in spring 2022. The outlines of a peace treaty were already on the table. What is the truth behind the explosive accusation that the West prevented the agreement?
[...]
This does not prevent the Kremlin and its media accomplices in the West from constantly rehashing the legend of sabotaged peace. The Swiss "Weltwoche" and its boss Roger Köppel, who are particularly eager to spread Moscow's disinformation, have propagated this slanted thesis no less than ten times.Their and other media outlets' "favorite witness" is the pro-Moscow ex-general Kujat [Bundeswehr, Skybird], who has repeatedly claimed that the war in Ukraine could have ended after just over six weeks.

Such an end would have required a far-reaching capitulation by Ukraine and would have left the country at the mercy of Moscow; it would not have been a real peace. The Kremlin and its propaganda cohorts are always trying to cover up who is to blame for the war: It is Putin, who would have had it in his power to order his army to retreat in those bloody days, but never let go of his project of conquest.The propagandistic narrative that the West prevented Ukraine to sign a deal in 2022, which has become quite common amongst pro-Russian agitators, is unsustainable.

mapuc

06-13-24, 10:14 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VDDcd7oFpA&ab_channel=CombatVeteranReacts

Markus

Jimbuna

06-13-24, 10:16 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NA1GzR7Kmg

Jimbuna

06-13-24, 10:56 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TQbgVkd5T8

mapuc

06-13-24, 05:14 PM

How many times has this been said about Russian economy ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWxbblEpf-E&ab_channel=UkrainianCanadian

Markus

Skybird

06-13-24, 05:18 PM

Oh, in the long run, the Russian economy will suffer, as will demographic development and the socio-psychological hygiene of society.

But none of this will play a role so quickly as to be a deciding factor in the war. Not in the coming 2-3 years or so.

mapuc

06-13-24, 05:21 PM

In the beginning of the video the guy says that it is China who's keeping Russia afloat.

Edit
Here's another video about the Russian economy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXsHD1Hac5Q&ab_channel=JakeBroe
End edit

Markus

Skybird

06-13-24, 06:49 PM

Objective and sober as always.

https://www-bundesheer-at.translate.goog/aktuelles/detail/sechs-fragen-zum-thema-westliche-hilfe-fuer-die-ukraine-oberst-reisner-antwortet?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de

Jimbuna

06-14-24, 08:45 AM

G7 agrees $50bn loan for Ukraine from Russian assets

The G7 has agreed to use frozen Russian assets to raise $50bn (£39bn) for Ukraine to help it fight invading Russian forces.

US President Joe Biden said it was another reminder to Russia "that we're not backing down", but in Moscow President Vladimir Putin said the move was "theft" which would "not go unpunished".

Also at the G7 summit in Italy, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and Mr Biden signed a 10-year bilateral security deal between Ukraine and the US, hailed by Kyiv as "historic".

The agreement envisages US military and training aid to Ukraine - but it does not commit Washington to send troops to fight for its ally.

According to the White House, the security deal means Washington and Kyiv will work to build and maintain Ukraine's defence and deterrence capability, bolster the country's defence industrial base, and support economic recovery and energy security.

The security deal also means that in the event of a future Russian armed attack against Ukraine, there will be consultation "at the highest levels to determine appropriate and necessary measures to support Ukraine and impose costs on Russia", the statement added.

Separately, some $325bn worth of assets were frozen by the G7, alongside the EU, following Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. The pot of assets is generating about $3bn a year in interest.

Under the G7 plan, that $3bn will be used to pay off the annual interest on the $50bn loan for the Ukrainians, taken out on the international markets.

The money is not expected to arrive until the end of the year but is seen as a longer-term solution to support Ukraine's war effort and economy.

Speaking at a joint news conference at the summit's venue in Puglia, southern Italy, President Biden said the $50bn loan would "put that money to work for Ukraine and send another reminder to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin that we're not backing down".

The US leader stressed that Mr Putin "cannot wait us out, he cannot divide us, and we'll be with Ukraine until they prevail in this war".

President Zelensky thanked his American and other allies for their unwavering support.

And referring to the new security deal, he said: "It's a truly historic day and we have signed the strongest agreement within Ukraine and the US since our independence [in 1991]".

The G7 group of rich nations, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the UK and US, have been important financial and military supporters of Ukraine as it battles to contain occupying Russian forces.

Other G7 leaders also hailed the $50bn loan deal, with UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak describing it as "game changing".

The $50bn loan is a sizeable pot of money, when compared with the $61bn worth of US military aid that was finally agreed in May.

A senior White House official said the G7-agreed fund will have "multiple" uses, which could include "military support, budget support, humanitarian support, reconstruction support".

There will be "flexibility in this structure," the US official added, as some countries "prefer to send their money to budget support and to reconstruction" while others will have funds "earmarked" for military support.

Some of those in Kyiv, who had been pushing for this cash, had wanted the G7 to release the whole frozen fund of $300bn, not merely the interest it is generating. The European Central Bank had ruled that out.

The bank's president, Christine Lagarde, has previously warned that such a move risked "breaking the international order... you would want Russia to respect".

Unlike the US aid package, which directly translated into more missiles being sent to the front line, this money will likely not arrive until the end of the year, meaning it will have little impact on the current course of the war.

For now, Ukraine says it still urgently needs more weapons - primarily air defence systems to blunt Russia’s missile and drone attacks on its cities and power stations, as well as long awaited F-16 fighter jets, which it hopes will start arriving as early as this summer.

At the G7 summit, Mr Zelensky said the new security agreement included US shipments of those warplanes.

The loan deal is also hugely symbolic for Ukraine. Its aggressor is now being forced to pay, not only to repair the devastation it has wrought - but for Ukraine to defend itself.

One of Mr Zelensky's closest advisers has said that the West’s decision to punish Russia in this way, in one sense, marks a turning point in the war.

However, the loan is unlikely to force a Russian U-turn on its war in Ukraine.

Most of the frozen assets of the Central Bank of Russia are being held in Belgium.

Under international law, countries cannot confiscate those assets from Russia and give them to Ukraine.

Speaking the day after the G7 decision was announced, President Putin vowed that the move "would not go unpunished".

Moscow has said it interprets attempts by the West to use money generated from frozen Russian assets as a criminal action.

In February, Russia's Finance Minister said the country had "ways to respond" if Western nations moved to seize Moscow's funds.

European officials have previously said that European investors have around €33bn worth of funds stuck in Russia.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cllldqyg19ro

Jimbuna

06-14-24, 09:07 AM

Putin offers truce if Ukraine exits Moscow-occupied areas and drops NATO bid — nonstarters for Kyiv

Russian President Vladimir Putin promised Friday to “immediately” order a cease-fire in Ukraine and begin negotiations if Kyiv started withdrawing troops from the four regions annexed by Moscow in 2022 and renounced plans to join NATO. Ukraine responded by calling Putin's proposal “manipulative” and “absurd.”

Putin’s remarks came as Switzerland prepared to host scores of world leaders -- but not from Moscow -- this weekend to try to map out first steps toward peace in Ukraine.

They also coincided with a meeting of leaders of the Group of Seven leading industrialized nations in Italy and after the U.S. and Ukraine this week also signed a 10-year security agreement that Russian officials, including Putin, denounced as “null and void.”
Putin blasted the Switzerland conference as “just another ploy to divert everyone’s attention, reverse the cause and effect of the Ukrainian crisis (and) set the discussion on the wrong track.”

His proposal came in a speech at the Russian Foreign Ministry and was aimed at what he called a “final resolution” of the conflict rather than “freezing it,” and stressed the Kremlin is “ready to start negotiations without delay.”

Broader demands for peace that Putin listed included Ukraine’s recognition of Crimea as part of Russia, keeping the country’s non-nuclear status, restricting its military force and protecting the interests of the Russian-speaking population. All of these should become part of “fundamental international agreements,” and all Western sanctions against Russia should be lifted, Putin said.

“We’re urging to turn this tragic page of history and to begin restoring, step-by-step, the unity between Russia and Ukraine and in Europe in general,” he said.

Putin’s remarks, made to a group of somber Foreign Ministry officials, represented a rare occasion in which he clearly laid out his conditions for ending the war in Ukraine, but it didn’t include any new demands. The Kremlin has said before that Kyiv should recognize its territorial gains and drop its bid to join NATO.

But Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry called Putin’s plan “manipulative,” “absurd” and designed to “mislead the international community, undermine diplomatic efforts aimed at achieving a just peace, and split the unity of the world majority around the goals and principles of the U.N. Charter.”

Besides wanting to join NATO, Ukraine demands that Russia withdraw its troops from all of its territory, including the Crimean Peninsula that was illegally annexed in 2014, restoring its territorial integrity, holding Russia accountable for war crimes and paying reparations to Kyiv.

Russia launched its a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. After Ukrainian forces thwarted a Russian drive to the capital, much of the fighting has focused in the south and east - and Russia illegally annexed regions in the east and the south, although it doesn’t fully control any of them.

Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said on social media that there was nothing new in Putin's proposal and that the Russian leader “voiced only the ‘standard aggressor’s set,’ which has been heard many times already.”

“There is no novelty in this, no real peace proposals and no desire to end the war. But there is a desire not to pay for this war and to continue it in new formats. It’s all a complete sham,” Podolyak wrote on X.

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said at NATO headquarters in Brussels that Putin "has illegally occupied sovereign Ukrainian territory. He is not in any position to dictate to Ukraine what they must do to bring about a peace.”

Austin added that Putin "started this war with no provocation. He could end it today if he chose to do that.”

Putin insisted Friday that Kyiv should withdraw from all four annexed regions entirely and essentially cede them to Moscow within their administrative borders. In Zaporizhzhia in the southeast, Russia still doesn't control the region's namesake administrative capital with a pre-war population of about 700,000, and in the neighboring Kherson region, Moscow withdrew from Kherson's biggest city and capital of the same name in November 2022.

Putin said that if “Kyiv and Western capitals” reject his offer, “it is their business, their political and moral responsibility for continuing the bloodshed.”

Throughout the war, the Kremlin has repeatedly aired its readiness for peace talks with Kyiv and blamed the West for undermining its efforts to end the conflict.

Putin went further Friday and claimed that his troops never intended to storm Ukraine's capital, Kyiv, even though they approached the city.

“In essence, it was nothing other than an operation to force the Ukrainian regime to peace. The troops were there to push the Ukrainian side to negotiate, to try and find an acceptable solution,” he said.

Moscow withdrew from Kyiv in March 2022 and described it a goodwill gesture as peace talks between the two began, but the pullback took place amid fierce Ukrainian resistance that significantly slowed down Russia's battlefield advances.

Putin also claimed that in that same month, he told one foreign official he wasn't ruling out withdrawing forces from the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions and ceding occupied parts of them back to Ukraine, as long as Kyiv allowed Russia to have a “strong land connection” to Crimea.

He said the official planned on bringing that proposal to Kyiv — which Moscow “welcomed,” as it generally welcomed “attempts to find a peaceful resolution of the conflict.” But the Kremlin then annexed both regions, along with the Donetsk and Luhansk provinces, citing the results of sham “referendums” it staged there. Putin mentioned those and said that “the matter is closed forever and is no longer up for discussion.”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/putin-offers-truce-if-ukraine-exits-moscow-occupied-areas-and-drops-nato-bid-nonstarters-for-kyiv/ar-BB1odIP7?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=17ca7df70b494c139b42bc12c5d90978&ei=30

Catfish

06-14-24, 12:15 PM

Putin offers truce if Ukraine exits Moscow-occupied areas and drops NATO bid — [...
:D
Nope.

mapuc

06-14-24, 12:34 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFutwinPnqo&ab_channel=Military%26History

Markus

Jimbuna

06-14-24, 12:50 PM

:D
Nope.

Rgr that :yep:

Jimbuna

06-14-24, 01:09 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfQfXIW_lII

Dargo

06-14-24, 01:20 PM

A leader that lost strategically the war and only can tactical make gains now dictate a peace pfff what a clown. Ukraine pushed Russia back something like 20,000 square kilometres in a matter of weeks but oh no Russia take a couple of hundred square kilometres in a matter of more than a year now that army is the winner again pfff this Russia will never win this Russia can only do operations it is not capable to war. In the press, Ukraine is losing all those armchair annalist screaming doom and gloom at the wrong side. Putin knows he lost it internal and outside Russia so we gone blahblah, bully and threaten to hide he is a loser or dictate a peace that is an oxymoron to dictate as the losing side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9BE--40Usg

mapuc

06-14-24, 03:19 PM

@ Dargo:
Not without assistance from NATO and for how long will this go on with the weapon and ammo aid.
As long they the Ukrainians are being supported by NATO they have the momentum.
Russia haven't used every weapon they have at their deposal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEdJOBfPlAI&ab_channel=UkraineMatters

Markus

Dargo

06-14-24, 04:30 PM

@ Dargo:
Not without assistance from NATO and for how long will this go on with the weapon and ammo aid.
As long they the Ukrainians are being supported by NATO they have the momentum.
Russia haven't used every weapon they have at their deposal.

MarkusRussia stock is reduced faster than predicted the war production is not going well it is short of 200000 labour force and has to import all kind of materials of bad quality you really do not want to stand next to an artillery gun with North Korean ammunition also that war economy result in that consumer economy getting destroyed, and a war economy does not produce revenue it goes kaboom in Ukraine for a couple of meters. The sanctions are working money is only going to the war, no other profits are produced. That Russia can do this... or that... is bull, Russian officials are now saying it goes bad. Putin is seen weaker after the Prigozhin rebellion, the elite does not trust Putin any more. What Ukraine gets from the West, they can stabilize this year the front and plan for end summer an offensive if they get certain materials (F-16s). Ukraine got the will and moral, Russia has never got both of it disasters mistake they call an operation. China is not their real buddy, never were the Chinese are the ones that will control Russia in the future. Russia is small in many things we in the West like to see it like it was under the Soviet time, but that is utterly wrong soviet economy was totally different it was constant in a war economy with yearly 2 million slaves extra to run it. Russia's economy now is based on kleptocracy they're only stealing nothing new get really produced any more that is from importance they lack the skills those people fled Russia years ago.

Skybird

06-14-24, 05:13 PM

Dream on, but no Ukrainian offensive later this summer or later this year. No offensive in 2024. They lack personnel and equipment.

Russia still outproduces the quantity of equipment Ukraine gets from the West. Russia throws several times as much money into the war than Ukraine gets in aid and supplies.

Russia's economy will suffer, even if it wins the war, so will its civil society and communal, socio-psychological health. But not any time soon, not within a time frame to be expected for a decisive role of it in the war. Not in the coming 2-3 years. Maybe from then on, but not until then.

Many European nations still do not even try seriously to replace what they have given to Ukrained. By far the worst example is Germany. Just words and phrases. Germany is incapable to defend itself for longer than 2-3 days. Ammo bunkers are EMPTY.

We hear since two years that Russia and its eocnomy is imminent to collapse, and that Putin is terminally ill, and Russian society is close to uprise, and that the okigarchs will revolt, and that the regime will be toppled. Do you dreamdancers never get tired of your endless wishful daydreaming? There are no shortcuts to bitterly fighting Russia down. And we do not do and do not give Ukraine what is needed for that. All we do just serves to extend the war, but preventing the victory.

More. More. More.

M.
O.
R.
E.

Or let it be completely.

BTW, the limitations in key ressources for arms production affect Western arms companies as well. ;) Just that we do not have allies like China, Iran, North Korea helping us out. In fact the majority of nations on then globe in practice are against our cause over Ukraine, and at best do not care for Ukraine.

mapuc

06-14-24, 05:50 PM

In a sort of a way, you are both right.

Yes the Ukrainians have success on the battlefield, meaning they give the Russians some ass kicking.

Yes it has been said so many times about the Russian economy-However in some of my latest video I posted yesterday, you could hear how the MOEX and many banks are closed until further notice People is trying to buy dollars or Euros.

Edit
Here's more on the Russian economy and MOEX
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfrFPJkQgk
End edit

Markus

Reece

06-14-24, 10:14 PM

@ Skybird: I would imagine Putin would love to read your posts! :doh: I don't think it wise to advertise the state of your country's military arsenal. :hmmm:

I dread to think what would happen if Russia wins and takes Ukraine, Europe would be living in fear for a long time. Build up ammunition supplies and more nukes! :timeout:

BTW. My opinion only Marc, no offense meant. :oops:

Skybird

06-15-24, 03:27 AM

@ Skybird: I would imagine Putin would love to read your posts! :doh: I don't think it wise to advertise the state of your country's military arsenal. :hmmm:
Its an open secret, and if the Russians had not known it, they could read about the Germans in the intelligence updates of the US or UK. :O:

I dread to think what would happen if Russia wins and takes Ukraine, Europe would be living in fear for a long time. Build up ammunition supplies and more nukes! :timeout:

I indeed think that Poland and Germany should turn into nuclear powers, to give NATO-without-US a more believable deterrance. But you maybe remember what kindergarden-Germany has just done to its nuclear powerplants and energy system... I mean should I really believe that the UK and France are willing to risk erazing of their metropoles when they nuclear retaliate for a Russian attack on Katowice, Poland? Or the US? Not one minute. Also, there are more valuable targets in the West than in Russia. Which means, the West has more to lose than Russia.

BTW. My opinion only Marc, no offense meant. :oops:
No offense taken at all, not by lightyears! :03:

Reece

06-15-24, 04:32 AM

there are more valuable targets in the West than in Russia. Which means, the West has more to lose than Russia.
Yes that is worrying! :oops:

Jimbuna

06-15-24, 05:05 AM

Vladimir Putin's ceasefire 'ultimatum' compared to Hitler's offer that launched WW2

Ukraine's president suggested Vladimir Putin was set on global domination as he compared him to Adolf Hitler after the warlord offered an unreasonable "ultimatum" in exchange for a cease-fire.

Putin yesterday promised to "immediately" order a cease-fire across Ukraine and start negotiating on the proviso that Kyiv withdraw troops from each of the four regions the Kremlin annexed in 2022. Another requirement was for Kyiv to renounce on its plans to join its Western allies in NATO.

Volodymyr Zelensky rejected what he called an ultimatum by Putin to surrender more territory. It comes as scores of world leaders - but not Moscow - were invited to Switzerland to map our first steps towards peace in Ukraine.
It also coincided with a meeting of leaders of the Group of Seven leading industrialized nations in Italy and after the U.S. and Ukraine this week signed a 10-year security agreement that Russian officials, including Putin, denounced as "null and void."

Zelensky, who is also in Italy for the G7 meeting, said the proposal was not new and was in the form of an "ultimatum," comparing it to actions by Adolf Hitler in seizing territory that led to World War II. It's unsure which promises Zelensky was referring to, but in 1939, Nazi Germany issued a 16-point list of demands to Poland, which was read out as a peace proposal on the radio. Britain and France declared war on Poland two days after the Nazis invaded.

"What Putin demands is to give them a part of our territories, those occupied and not occupied, talking about several regions of our country," Zelensky said.

Speaking to Sky Italia, he said: "[The offer is] exactly the kind of things that Hitler would say. He would say 'Give me a part of the Czech Republic and the war will end', but he was just lying because after that came Poland; 'give me a part of Poland', and then came the occupation of the whole of Europe... This is what Nazism is about and we can't trust Putin because he's on the very same path."

Ukraine's Foreign Ministry called Putin's plan "manipulative," "absurd" and designed to "mislead the international community, undermine diplomatic efforts aimed at achieving a just peace, and split the unity of the world majority around the goals and principles of the U.N. Charter."

Besides seeking to join NATO, Ukraine wants Russian forces out of its territory, including the Crimean Peninsula that was illegally annexed in 2014; the restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity; and that Russia be held accountable for war crimes and for Moscow to pay reparations to Kyiv.

Putin blasted the Switzerland conference as "just another ploy to divert everyone's attention, reverse the cause and effect of the Ukrainian crisis (and) set the discussion on the wrong track." His demands came in a speech at the Russian Foreign Ministry and was aimed at what he called a "final resolution" of the conflict rather than "freezing it," and stressed the Kremlin is "ready to start negotiations without delay."

Broader demands for peace that Putin listed included Ukraine's recognition of Crimea as part of Russia, keeping the country's non-nuclear status, restricting its military force and protecting the interests of the Russian-speaking population. All of these should be part of "fundamental international agreements," and all Western sanctions against Russia should be lifted, Putin said.

"We're urging to turn this tragic page of history and to begin restoring, step-by-step, the unity between Russia and Ukraine and in Europe in general," he said.

Putin's remarks, made to a group of sombre Foreign Ministry officials and some senior lawmakers, represented a rare occasion in which he clearly laid out his conditions for ending the war in Ukraine, but it didn't include any new demands. The Kremlin has said before that Kyiv should recognize its territorial gains and drop its bid to join NATO.

Russia launched its full-scale invasion in February 2022. After Ukrainian forces thwarted a Russian drive to the capital, much of the fighting has focused in the south and east, where Moscow illegally annexed four regions, although it doesn't fully control any of them.

Zelensky adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said on social media there was nothing new from Putin and that the Russian leader "voiced only the `standard aggressor's set,' which has been heard many times already."

"There is no novelty in this, no real peace proposals and no desire to end the war. But there is a desire not to pay for this war and to continue it in new formats. It's all a complete sham," Podolyak wrote on X.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/disturbing-reason-why-kim-jong-un-and-daughter-are-so-affectionate-in-public/ar-BB1oepp8?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=95680130c9a84f489440b35d35ce4d08&ei=16

Jimbuna

06-15-24, 05:47 AM

Russian Protesters Demand Kremlin Elite Be Sent to Frontlines

As the war in Ukraine drags on, the Russian government continues to send thousands of young men to fight and die.

However, those from the highest echelons of power remain conspicuously absent from the battlefield.

This discrepancy has sparked outrage, leading to demands for the elite to face the same dangers as ordinary soldiers.

Mothers and Wives Lead the Charge
The campaign, spearheaded by the relatives of mobilized soldiers, has gained significant traction.

According to the Moscow Times, a group called "Put Domoi," meaning "Road Home," is at the forefront of this movement.

Comprised mainly of mothers and wives of soldiers sent to Ukraine, these women are demanding that the sons of high-ranking officials and media personalities replace their loved ones at the front.
In a statement on Telegram, the group declared,

"We demand that our men be replaced by other quite specific men: the children and husbands of those who tell our citizens from their screens that war is good."

Targeting the Powerful
Typically, those sent to the frontlines are young men from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, far removed from the centers of power in Moscow.

Put Domoi's goal is to achieve a "complete demobilization" of these men and instead send members of the Kremlin elite to fight.

The group's list of suggested replacements includes the sons of Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov, pro-Putin TV host Vladimir Solovyov, and former President Dmitry Medvedev.

"We can make a list long enough to replace every mobilized person," their statement claims.

A Quick End to Conflict?
Put Domoi argues that sending elite families to fight would quickly bring the war to an end.

"Something tells us that such a rotation would swiftly put an end to all hostilities," the group commented.

However, the Russian government has labeled the movement as "foreign agents," a common tactic used to discredit and suppress dissenting voices.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russian-protesters-demand-kremlin-elite-be-sent-to-frontlines/ar-BB1ogAD9?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=8f76f56c9311413580b2e73465c0aaa8&ei=83

mapuc

06-15-24, 09:49 AM

How good is the Ukrainian army in fact, if you remove NATO from the equation?

I would say not much, which mean their survival depend fully on supply from NATO

More on this Peace proposal from Putin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLt9ww81lzw

Markus

Dargo

06-15-24, 11:32 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLncvexyDAI

mapuc

06-15-24, 11:40 AM

^ Here I have agree with those who was saying "How many times and for how long haven't we heard about Putin's health and his lack of success a.s.o.)

Even if Russia should go bankrupt he is safe in his castle. Even if they should lose the war he is safe in his castle.

Markus

Jimbuna

06-15-24, 12:38 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQfffgRSzeI

Jimbuna

06-16-24, 05:58 AM

Russia's losses in Ukraine as of June 16: Over 1,200 soldiers and 58 artillery systems

In the past 24 hours, Ukrainian defense forces have eliminated an additional 1,160 Russian soldiers. Since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, the Russian army has lost a total of 526,310 soldiers. Additionally, Ukrainian defenders have destroyed 58 artillery systems, according to the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

The total combat losses of the enemy from February 24, 2022, to June 15, 2024, are approximately:

・personnel - 526,310 (+1,160) eliminated;

・tanks - 7,956 units;

・armored personnel vehicles - 15,269 (+6) units;

・artillery systems - 13,913 (+58) units;

・MLRS - 1,104 (+1) units;

・anti-aircraft warfare systems - 853 units;

・aircraft - 359 units;

・helicopters - 326 units;
・UAV operational-tactical level - 11,159 (+11) units;

・cruise missiles - 2,296 (+3) units;

・warships/boats - 28 units;

・submarines - 1 unit;

・vehicles & fuel tanks - 18,967 (+56) units;

・special equipment - 2,325 (+3) units.

It should be noted that yesterday, a third of the Russian assaults were concentrated in the Pokrovsk direction. Throughout the day, this was the hottest spot, but the Defense Forces firmly held the line.

Earlier, it was reported that according to NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, Ukraine has the full right to destroy the missile launchers from which Russia attacks Kharkiv and the surrounding region.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-s-losses-in-ukraine-as-of-june-16-over-1-200-soldiers-and-58-artillery-systems/ar-BB1oiYXt?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=5a155c1ca6bf4f4aa838d4b0e20fcd92&ei=20

Jimbuna

06-16-24, 06:32 AM

Vladimir Putin 'done' as Ukraine 'last war' Russia will be able to fight for generations

Vladimir Putin will not be able to fight another war after Ukraine as Russia will not have enough men to maintain an army, according to a geopolitical expert.

Putin this week said he would agree to a ceasefire "immediately" if Kyiv agreed to relinquish all territories Moscow illegally annexed since the invasion began.

Volodymyr Zelensky rejected the proposal as Ukraine maintained it seeks to liberate all occupied regions, including Crimea.

Geopolitical expert Peter Zeihan suggested the protraction of the war would however spell the end of Putin and his army as he noted current casualty rates suggest Moscow would not have enough young men to "replenish" its files.

Mr Zeihan said: "Remember two things. Number one: Russia never fights short wars.

"They do short intimidations, their wars are always long because they're always about human waves.

"Number two: if they do this, this is their last war because there are not enough Russians under the age of 20 to theoretically repopulate the system. So when this is done, one way or another, Russia is done.

Mr Zeihan comments came as he was asked to comment on reports suggesting the Kremlin already lost over half a million men since the start of the war. Reports have also suggested another million conscripted have fled the front.

Speaking to Times Radio, he added: "The Russians had eight million men under 20, that's what they started the war with.

"If they lost half a million now, and a million have fled, that still leaves them with six and a half million bodies to throw at this problem.

"To be perfectly blunt, the Russians have yet to fully mobilise. Most of the people they've brought in through their draft system have been minorities from ethnically, and economically disadvantaged areas.

"They haven't really gotten into the core of what the country is capable of."

He added: "But at this rate, there is no way the Russians can keep this up for another eight years - and I know that sounds like a long time."

World leaders converged on Lake Lucerne on Saturday to discuss how to bring peace to war-ravaged Ukraine, though any hopes of a real breakthrough were muted by the absence of Russia.

Attendees faced a tricky balancing act, with many chastising Russia for breaking international law while hedging their positions to leave the door open for Moscow to join future peace talks that might bring about an end to the conflict one day.

US Vice President Kamala Harris reiterated America's full backing for Ukraine and announced $1.5 billion in new US assistance for an array of projects such as energy infrastructure and civilian security.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/vladimir-putin-done-as-ukraine-last-war-russia-will-be-able-to-fight-for-generations/ar-BB1oiaei?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=5a155c1ca6bf4f4aa838d4b0e20fcd92&ei=29

mapuc

06-16-24, 11:19 AM

Hehe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAsnRh6V0qI

Markus

Jimbuna

06-16-24, 12:31 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEYrwuJ2myw&list=RDCMUCpr-NNORb2UQYDD3k-w-OFg&start_radio=1

Rockstar

06-16-24, 02:28 PM

Hehe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAsnRh6V0qI

Markus
Frozen Russian assets are not what’s being loaned to Ukraine. What is being loaned is your money and it’s the profits accrued by frozen Russian assets that are being put up as collateral.

Sounds to me like smoke and mirrors making you think it’s Russia’s money not yours that’s being used.

Also scuttlebutt is the 50 billion loan most likely will not be available until the end of this year.

Catfish

06-16-24, 03:10 PM

Rockstar

06-16-24, 03:18 PM

According to some russian friends and a prof. with russian connections Putin's army faces an uphill battle and will be toast at the end of this year.

Problem maybe the US wants Ukraine to win, but not so fast.

That’s what I came to believe after the first several months of the conflict. If the west is going to spend the time, money and effort to assist another that allowed themselves to get steam rolled by a bunch of drunks, drug addicts and convicts it’s will be done according to a plan that benefits the west. The goal isn’t a quick win and eviction of Russia from Ukraine. This is an opportunity to be exploited to further weaken the Russia economy, political, military regional influence. Crack open Central Asia and quite possibly even the break-up of the Russian federation.

Dargo

06-16-24, 03:30 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8RLdmMqRhQ

mapuc

06-16-24, 03:42 PM

Dargo

06-16-24, 04:00 PM

The Russian Kharkiv Offensive has revealed itself to be a strategic catastrophe for Russia, and is now leading to “astronomic” losses that if anything are limiting Russian advances in the Donbas. The Kharkiv Offensive and the entire Russian campaign of 2024 actually is most revealing in that it confirms that Ukraine can win the war.

Russian soldier says army suffering heavy losses in Kharkiv offensiveAnton Andreev says only 12 out of 100 soldiers remained alive after unit came under Ukrainian fire and drones in Vovchansk. Anton Andreev, a Russian soldier from the fifth company of the 1009th regiment, painted a bleak picture of Russia’s offensive in the Ukrainian northern region of Kharkiv.

His unit had been decimated, he said, with only 12 out of 100 soldiers still alive as they came under constant Ukrainian fire and drones in Vovchansk, a prime target of Russia’s advances. “They just chop us up. We are sent under machine guns, under drones in daylight, like meat. And commanders just shout ‘forward and forward’,” Andreev said in a video message... https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/16/russian-soldier-says-army-suffering-heavy-losses-in-kharkiv-offensive

mapuc

06-16-24, 04:15 PM

Lets hope it is not a one timer scenario

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPVHxWnTWrQ

Markus

em2nought

06-17-24, 03:19 AM

That’s what I came to believe after the first several months of the conflict. If the west is going to spend the time, money and effort to assist another that allowed themselves to get steam rolled by a bunch of drunks, drug addicts and convicts it’s will be done according to a plan that benefits the west.

Plan is for WW3 to kick off prior to November. :03:

Skybird

06-17-24, 05:35 AM

Problem maybe the US wants Ukraine to win, but not so fast.
"Boiling the frog."

Which would be okay if the US would use their own water for boiling the frog, not Ukrainian blood and future. The US wargame is destroying not just Russia's longterm perspectives, but Ukraine's, too.

I stick to what I always said: that longterm Russia would loose financially, economically, demographically, socio-psychologically is relatively clear and I never denied that. I just have heavy doubts on that these erosive processes will start to create collapsing results any time soon and soon enough to have a decisive effect on the going of the running war. The Ukraine could easily get completely grinded down on the way to Russia's inner collapsing and thus would be a victim of Western strategy gaming. Just check the state of their powerplants and supply for industrial production, and their heating plants. And then remember that the next winter is coming. In the West some propagate solar panels for private households in Ukraine. Thats innovative and nice to have, but it gets you only so far - especially in rainy autumn and winter - and does not serve the needs of the industry and production. The situation is constantly degrading since as long as the war lasted so far, and no change is in sight.

Note that India and Brazil and South Africa, Iran and China still abstain from letting Russia fall. That are big players, each in his own playfield, while Turkey plays its usual double games. Countries representing over 60% of the global population refuse to take a aside against Russia, amongst them the future emergign markets. Of the remamning 40%, not all are siding with Western ambitions, but some simply stay aside, neutrally.

My conclusion? Its not that we should give in and let Ukraine fall. Its that we should do incredibly much more, militarily, to support it. And while I do not know whether Macron ever was meanign it serious, he is, by words, right when stating the obvious: that NATO must ready itself to get personally engaged in Ukraine just for the case the Ukrainians cannot hold any more. Us Europeans cannot afford to let Russia win the prize it claims. If there is a risk that Russia crushes ukraine, we must get personally involved, whether we like it or not. And no, I am not eager for that scenario. Not at all. But what needs to get done, must be done. And better in Ukraine than in the Baltic states, Poland, Finland, or Germany.

I also remind of that after the war, any financial rebuilding of Ukraine will cost Europe astronomical amounts of money. And this in today's monetarian, debt-drowning environment - extremely high risks involved.

So, beside all my scepticism I do not say we should let Russia have its way, I say quite the opposite: we must do incredibly and very much more in support.

Especially Germany also has to understand that it must invest so very much more into military production. But with the windbags currently occupying the government, and the outlook that the next coalition government(s) will not do any better, that expectation is most likely in vein. NATO would be well advised to isolate the Germans, I trust them not more than I trust the Turks. Keep in mind: any form of coalition government of the future will always be including strong red-green policies, it cannot be avoided in Germany anymore, so any big victory of the CDU in the end means: relatively little, they will never be able to rule alone with the exception of - the AfD. And that they do not want, so they claim. Germany is doomed to degenerate in an infinite political deadlock. So dont count on it. Also do not overlook that very high rates of the German population are deliberately pro-Russian, in the Eastgerman states that sentiment is the sentiment of the majority of the people. This is often not realised by foreign correspondents from other countries, it seems to me. Also in the West this sentiment is growing, and anything but small.

Jimbuna

06-17-24, 07:53 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgQXdogX0jc

Rockstar

06-17-24, 09:33 AM

"Boiling the frog."

Which would be okay if the US would use their own water for boiling the frog, not Ukrainian blood and future. The US wargame is destroying not just Russia's longterm perspectives, but Ukraine's, too.

There are other signatories involved regarding Ukraines security that I would like to add to your list besides the U.S. They are Ukraine, Russia, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, France, & China.

Also it is the government of Ukraine that let their national defense fall into an utter state of disrepair. .And even though not one of the signatories agreed to offer military assistance as part of any security agreement. Shortly after the annexation of Crimea the U.S. and U.K. had to take Ukraine by the hand and trained over 140,000 professional soldiers at training grounds in the Baltic States and began arming Ukraine long before the outbreak of the current conflict. While having to continually to drag the rest of the E.U. into doing something to help out.

Jimbuna

06-17-24, 10:01 AM

Denmark intends to block Russian tankers from shadow fleet

Denmark is considering ways to limit the so-called shadow fleet of tankers transporting Russian oil through the Baltic Sea, Danish Foreign Minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen says.

According to him, Denmark has assembled a group of allied countries that are evaluating measures against this shadow fleet. He did not specify what measures are being considered.

"There is broad consensus that the shadow fleet is an international problem and that international solutions are required. It's important that any new measures can be implemented in practice and that they are legally sound with regards to international law," Rasmussen says.

According to the Minister, the talks were attended by other Baltic Sea countries and members of the European Union.
Denmark is concerned that old tankers transporting oil through its straits pose a potential environmental hazard.

Shadow fleet

Ever since Western countries imposed a price cap on Russian oil in an attempt to limit vital supplies for the war in Ukraine, Russia has relied on an aging fleet of tankers based and insured outside the West.

Russia sends about one-third of its maritime oil exports, or 1.5% of global supplies, through the Danish Straits, which are the gateway to the Baltic Sea, so any attempt to stop the shipments could hit the Kremlin's finances.

Earlier, the United States imposed sanctions on the Russian tanker group Sovcomflot to reduce the Kremlin's oil revenues. The EU is preparing a similar step.

UK Foreign Secretary David Cameron has proposed detaining Russian tankers that illegally transport Russian oil around the world.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/denmark-intends-to-block-russian-tankers-from-shadow-fleet/ar-BB1onqXE?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ENTPSP&cvid=f3c00e35f1c746b1a9947ae311983805&ei=50