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Rockstar
04-13-23, 08:32 AM
Leaker of U.S. secret documents worked on military base, friend says

THE DISCORD LEAKS | The online group that received hundreds of pages of classified material included foreigners, members tell The Post

By Shane Harris and Samuel Oakford
April 12, 2023 at 9:36 p.m. EDT

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/12/discord-leaked-documents/

The man behind a massive leak of U.S. government secrets that has exposed spying on allies, revealed the grim prospects for Ukraine’s war with Russia and ignited diplomatic fires for the White House is a young, charismatic gun enthusiast who shared highly classified documents with a group of far-flung acquaintances searching for companionship amid the isolation of the pandemic.

United by their mutual love of guns, military gear and God, the group of roughly two dozen — mostly men and boys — formed an invitation-only clubhouse in 2020 on Discord, an online platform popular with gamers. But they paid little attention last year when the man some call “OG” posted a message laden with strange acronyms and jargon. The words were unfamiliar, and few people read the long note, one of the members explained. But he revered OG, the elder leader of their tiny tribe, who claimed to know secrets that the government withheld from ordinary people.

The young member read OG’s message closely, and the hundreds more that he said followed on a regular basis for months. They were, he recalled, what appeared to be near-verbatim transcripts of classified intelligence documents that OG indicated he had brought home from his job on a “military base,” which the member declined to identify. OG claimed he spent at least some of his day inside a secure facility that prohibited cellphones and other electronic devices, which could be used to document the secret information housed on government computer networks or spooling out from printers. He annotated some of the hand-typed documents, the member said, translating arcane intel-speak for the uninitiated, such as explaining that “NOFORN” meant the information in the document was so sensitive it must not be shared with foreign nationals.

OG told the group he toiled for hours writing up the classified documents to share with his companions in the Discord server he controlled. The gathering spot had been a pandemic refuge, particularly for teen gamers locked in their houses and cut off from their real-world friends. The members swapped memes, offensive jokes and idle chitchat. They watched movies together, joked around and prayed. But OG also lectured them about world affairs and secretive government operations. He wanted to “keep us in the loop,” the member said, and seemed to think that his insider knowledge would offer the others protection from the troubled world around them. “He’s a smart person. He knew what he was doing when he posted these documents, of course. These weren’t accidental leaks of any kind,” the member said.

The transcribed documents OG posted traversed a range of sensitive subjects that only people who had undergone months-long background checks would be authorized to see. There were top-secret reports about the whereabouts and movements of high-ranking political leaders and tactical updates on military forces, the member said. Geopolitical analysis. Insights into foreign governments’ efforts to interfere with elections. “If you could think it, it was in those documents.”

In those initial posts, OG had given his fellow members a small sip of the torrent of secrets that was to come. When rendering hundreds of classified files by hand proved too tiresome, he began posting hundreds of photos of documents themselves, an astonishing cache of secrets that has been steadily spilling into public view over the past week, disrupting U.S. foreign policy and aggravating America’s allies.

This account of how detailed intelligence documents intended for an exclusive circle of military leaders and government decision-makers found their way into and then out of OG’s closed community is based in part on several lengthy interviews with the Discord group member, who spoke to The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity. He is under 18 and was a young teenager when he met OG. The Post obtained consent from the member’s mother to speak to him and to record his remarks on video. He asked that his voice not be obscured.

What to know about the Discord leaks

Dozens of highly classified documents have been leaked online, revealing sensitive information intended for senior military and intelligence leaders. In an exclusive investigation, The Post also reviewed scores of additional secret documents, most of which have not been made public.

Where did they come from?

The top-secret documents appear to be — at least partly — from the Pentagon and many seem to have been prepared for senior military officials. Post reporting revealed that a man in his early to mid-20s allegedly shared them with members of an invitation-only Discord group.

What do the leaked documents reveal about Ukraine?

The documents reveal profound concerns about the war’s trajectory and Kyiv’s capacity to wage a successful offensive against Russian forces. According to a Defense Intelligence Agency assessment among the leaked documents, “Negotiations to end the conflict are unlikely during 2023.”

What else do they show?

The files include summaries of human intelligence on high-level conversations between world leaders, as well as information about advanced satellite technology the United States uses to spy. They also include intelligence on both allies and adversaries, including Iran and North Korea, as well as Britain, Canada, South Korea and Israel.

What happens now?

The leak has far-reaching implications for the United States and its allies. In addition to the Justice Department investigation, officials in several countries said they were assessing the damage from the leaks.

His account was corroborated by a second member who read many of the same classified documents shared by OG, and who also spoke on the condition of anonymity. Both members said they know OG’s real name as well as the state where he lives and works but declined to share that information while the FBI is hunting for the source of the leaks. The investigation is in its early stages, and the Pentagon has set up its own internal review led by a senior official.
“An interagency effort has been stood up, focused on assessing the impact these photographed documents could have on U.S. national security and on our Allies and partners,” Pentagon deputy press secretary Sabrina Singh said in a statement.

Discord said in a statement that it is cooperating with law enforcement and has declined to comment further.

The Post also reviewed approximately 300 photos of classified documents, most of which have not been made public; some of the text documents OG is said to have written out; an audio recording of a man the two group members identified as OG speaking to his companions; and chat records and photographs that show OG communicating with them on the Discord server.

The young member was impressed by OG’s seemingly prophetic ability to forecast major events before they became headline news, things “only someone with this kind of high clearance” would know. He was by his own account enthralled with OG, who he said was in his early to mid-20s.

“He’s fit. He’s strong. He’s armed. He’s trained. Just about everything you can expect out of some sort of crazy movie,” the member said.

In a video seen by The Post, the man who the member said is OG stands at a shooting range, wearing safety glasses and ear coverings and holding a large rifle. He yells a series of racial and antisemitic slurs into the camera, then fires several rounds at a target.

The member seemed drawn to OG’s bravado and his skill with weapons. He felt a certain kinship with a man he described as “like an uncle” and, on another occasion, as a father figure.

“I was one of the very few people in the server that was able to understand that these [documents] were legitimate,” the member said, setting himself apart from the others who mostly ignored OG’s posts.
“It felt like I was on top of Mount Everest,” he said. “I felt like I was above everyone else to some degree and that … I knew stuff that they didn’t.”

‘A tightknit family’

The member met OG about four years ago, on a different server for fans of Oxide, a popular YouTuber who streams videos about guns, body armor and military hardware. He said a group of avid members found the server too crowded and wanted a quieter place to talk about video game tactics, so they broke off into their own, small group.

More like-minded Oxide fans joined the private Discord server, which came to be named “Thug Shaker Central,” and whose membership OG would effectively control as the administrator.

“We all grew very close to each other, like a tightknit family,” the member said. “We depended on each other.” He said that other members, and OG especially, counseled him during bouts of depression and helped to steady him emotionally. “There was no lack of love for each other.”
OG was the undisputed leader. The member described him as “strict.” He enforced a “pecking order” and expected the others to read closely the classified information he had shared. When their attention waned, he got angry.

More on the Discord leaks

Late last year, a peeved OG fired off a message to all the members of the server. He had spent nearly an hour every day writing up “these long and drawn-out posts in which he’d often add annotations and explanations for stuff that we normal citizens would not understand,” the member said. His would-be pupils were more interested in YouTube videos about battle gear. “He got upset, and he said on multiple occasions, if you guys aren’t going to interact with them, I’m going to stop sending them.”

That’s when OG changed tactics. Rather than spend his time copying documents by keyboard, he took photographs of the genuine articles and dropped them in the server. These were more vivid and arresting documents than the plain text renderings. Some featured detailed charts of battlefield conditions in Ukraine and highly classified satellite images of the aftermath of Russian missile strikes on Ukrainian electrical facilities. Others sketched the potential trajectory of North Korean ballistic nuclear missiles that could reach the United States. Another featured photographs of the Chinese spy balloon that floated across the country in February, snapped from eye-level, probably by a U-2 spy plane, along with a diagram of the balloon and the surveillance technology attached to it.

A breach of secrecy

The photographs of printed secret documents now seen by millions may offer clues to the federal agents searching for OG. Reality Winner, who leaked secret National Security Agency documents to the news website the Intercept in 2017, was compromised by secret markings on printouts that helped narrow the search. OG’s documents look to have been printed on ordinary paper and were creased after having been folded in four. Sometimes, the photographs OG took of the documents appeared to have been taken over a bed. Items such as Gorilla Glue, a scope manual and nail clippers appeared in the margins. Other previously unreported images reviewed by The Post showed printed documents lying on top of a glowing red keyboard.

The breadth of the military and intelligence reports was extensive. For months, OG regularly uploaded page after page of classified U.S. assessments, offering a window into how deeply American intelligence had penetrated the Russian military, showing that Egypt had planned to sell Russia tens of thousands of rockets and suggesting that Russian mercenaries had approached Turkey, a NATO ally, to buy weapons to fight against Ukraine.

At least one of the documents appeared to have been printed from Intellipedia, a data-sharing system that intelligence agencies use to collaborate and post reports and articles.

The documents were another lesson for younger members in how OG thought the world really worked. The member said OG wasn’t hostile to the U.S. government, and he insisted that he was not working on behalf of any country’s interests. “He is not a Russian operative. He is not a Ukrainian operative,” the member said. The room on the server where he posted the documents was called “bear-vs-pig,” meant to be a snide jab at Russia and Ukraine, and an indication that OG took no sides in the conflict.

But OG had a dark view of the government. The young member said he spoke of the United States, and particularly law enforcement and the intelligence community, as a sinister force that sought to suppress its citizens and keep them in the dark. He ranted about “government overreach.”

OG told his online companions that the government hid horrible truths from the public. He claimed, according to the members, that the government knew in advance that a white supremacist intended to go on a shooting rampage at a Buffalo supermarket in May 2022. The attack left 10 dead, all of them Black, and wounded three more. OG said federal law enforcement officials let the killings proceed so they could argue for increased funding, a baseless notion that the member said he believes and considers an example of OG’s penetrating insights about the depth of government corruption.

OG’s group itself had a dark side. The Discord server’s eventual name, Thug Shaker Central, was a racist allusion, and signaled to members that they were free to hurl epithets and crude jokes. The young member expressed some regret for their behavior but seemed to shrug off the offensive remarks as a clumsy attempt at humor. It was not “a fascist recruiting server,” he told The Post.

One thing the members were not supposed to do was talk about the secrets OG had shared with them, including the classified documents. “Most people in the server were smart enough as to kind of realize that … they shouldn’t be posted anywhere else,” the member said. And yet, the group contained foreign citizens — including from Russia and Ukraine, the members said — a defiance of the NOFORN warning printed across the top of so many documents OG shared.

The member estimated that the server hosted people from Europe, Asia and South America. “Just about every walk of life.” Of the roughly 25 active members who had access to the bear-vs-pig channel, about half were located overseas, the member said. The ones who seemed most interested in the classified material claimed to be from mostly “Eastern Bloc and those post-Soviet countries,” he said. “The Ukrainians had interest as well,” which the member chalked up to interest in the war ravaging their homeland.

For years, U.S. counterintelligence officials have eyed gaming platforms as a magnet for spies. Russian intelligence operatives have been suspected of befriending gamers who they believe work for intelligence agencies and encouraging them to divulge classified information, a senior U.S. official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive information.
It’s not clear whether any of those efforts have been successful. But if foreign operatives finagled an invitation to OG’s server, they would have been free to view the documents and make copies of them, as some members did.

The server sprouts a leak

All winter, OG uploaded documents to the server. No one talked about sharing them elsewhere. Then, unbeknown to the group, on Feb. 28, another teenage user from the Thug Shaker Central server began posting several dozen photographs showing classified documents on another Discord server affiliated with the YouTuber “wow_mao.” Some of the documents offered detailed assessments of Ukraine’s defense capabilities and showed how far U.S. intelligence could see into Russia’s military command.

On March 4, 10 documents appeared on “Minecraft Earth Map,” a Discord server focused on the popular video game. A user operating the account that posted the smaller tranche of images told The Post they obtained them on wow_mao.
Secret and top-secret documents were now available to thousands of Discord users, but the leak wouldn’t come to the attention of U.S. authorities for another month. Meanwhile, OG stopped sharing images in the middle of March. On April 5, classified documents assessing the war in Ukraine were posted on Russian Telegram channels and the message board platform 4chan, and began migrating to Twitter. One image, showing a March 1 Ukraine status update, had been crudely doctored to inflate the number of Ukrainian casualties and downplay those on the Russian side.

The next day, shortly before the New York Times first reported on the leak, OG came into the server “frantic, which is unusual for him,” the member said.
“He said something had happened, and he prayed to God that this event would not happen. … But now it’s in God’s hands.”

Not a whistleblower

For all OG’s disdain for the federal government, the member said there was no indication that he was acting in what he thought was the public interest by exposing official secrets. The classified documents were intended only to benefit his online family, the member said.

“I would definitely not call him a whistleblower. I would not call OG a whistleblower in the slightest,” he said, resisting comparisons to Edward Snowden, who shared classified documents about government surveillance with journalists.

Remarkably, the member said he has been in touch with OG in the past few days, even as an FBI manhunt is underway and the Pentagon launches its own inquiry into the leaks. After shuttering the Thug Shaker Central server, OG moved the community to another server to communicate with his online family.
He “seemed very confused and lost as to what to do,” the member said. “He’s fully aware of what’s happening and what the consequences may be. He’s just not sure on how to go about solving this situation. … He seems pretty distraught about it.”

In his final message to his companions, OG admonished them to “keep low and delete any information that could possibly relate to him,” the member said. That included any copies of the classified documents OG had shared.
When it dawned on them that OG was in grave peril and intended to disappear, the members of Thug Shaker Central “full-on sobbed and cried,” the young member said. “It is like losing a family member.”

In hours of interviews, he continued to express admiration and loyalty to a man who may have endangered his young followers by allowing them to see and possess classified information, exposing them to potential federal crimes.
“I figured he would not be putting us in any sort of harm’s way,” the member said.

The exposure of the documents has severed friendships and cut him off from the man who buoyed his confidence and made him feel safe. The member said that the stress of the loss, coupled with the enormity of the leaks, has left him worried and sleepless.

Now he says he believes that the world should see the secrets OG passed along to a tiny group. He argued that the public deserves to know how intelligence agencies spend their tax dollars, and was particularly outraged that the documents show U.S. surveillance of foreign allies.
But what the young man regarded as a revelation will come as no surprise to the countries whose officials the U.S. has been monitoring for decades. While rarely discussed, and embarrassing for Washington when exposed, it’s widely understood that the U.S. intelligence community monitors many friendly governments, just as foreign allies try to do the same.

Thousands of military personnel and government employees around OG’s age, working entry-to-low-level positions, could plausibly have access to classified documents like the ones he allegedly shared, according to U.S. officials and experts who have seen the documents reported in the media. Despite what his young followers thought, OG would have had no special knowledge compared with his peers. He possessed no special power to predict events. Rather, he appears to have persuaded some highly impressionable teenagers that he’s a modern-day gamer meets Jason Bourne.

The member said he’s confident the authorities will find OG. But when they do, he won’t be charged. Instead, he believes, OG will be imprisoned without due process at Guantánamo Bay or disappeared to a “black site,” if he’s not “assassinated” for what he knows.

The member, as well as the OG follower who corroborated his account, found no fault in their leader’s actions and instead said they blame the teen who posted the documents on the wow_mao server for wrecking their community.
“Maybe we should have had better opsec,” the member said, harnessing the jargon of military and intelligence personnel for “operations security.”
He said he will not divulge OG’s identity or location to law enforcement until he is captured or can flee the United States. “I think I might be detained eventually. … I think there might be a short investigation on how I knew this guy, and they’ll try to get something out of me. They might try to threaten me with prison time if I don’t reveal their identity.”

To date, no federal law enforcement officials have contacted the young group member. Asked why he was prepared to help OG even at the risk of his own freedom, the young man replied without hesitation: “He was my best friend.”

mapuc
04-13-23, 08:54 AM
I thought you had to read and sign a document where you are entitle to keep your mouth shut and not share it with others outside the room you are in.

Markus

August
04-13-23, 08:57 AM
I thought you had to read and sign a document where you are entitle to keep your mouth shut and not share it with others outside the room you are in.

Markus




Yep they do but apparently it works about as well as telling criminals they can't bring guns into gun free zones.

Rockstar
04-13-23, 09:45 AM
I thought you had to read and sign a document where you are entitle to keep your mouth shut and not share it with others outside the room you are in.

Markus

Nope, everyone knows the consequences of unauthorized disclosures. Once a background check is completed and nothing is found that would lead anyone to believe you’ll wander off the reservation. You then may be authorized to handle a certain classified level of information. But nobody is supposed to be given access to everything, just what’s required to do your job. In fact unless the old man specifically directed me to read it, I just stayed away from the stuff, honestly I don’t want to know.

But once in a great awhile I came across some really off the wall stuff that had nothing to do with my job. I always thought it as bait. :D

mapuc
04-13-23, 10:09 AM
About spying on its own country.

A Swedish examination showed that it was more likely that person born in a country was more eager to steal and sell secret information to other countries, than a foreign would(Here I'm talking about a person who came to the country as young and got the citizenship some years later.

This examination was based on all the spies that had been caught in Sweden from 1940/45 to 1990-something.

Of course I would not let some Chinese, Russian, Belarusian or some other country where the diplomatic relation is cold.

Markus

Buddahaid
04-13-23, 07:14 PM
Maybe it's a bad idea to have 1.5 million people with that security clearance?

Rockstar
04-13-23, 08:32 PM
Maybe it’s a good idea to require more polygraphs for those handling Top Secret SCI

MaDef
04-13-23, 10:05 PM
Maybe it's a bad idea to have 1.5 million people with that security clearance?

"Three May Keep a Secret if Two are Dead"

em2nought
04-13-23, 10:22 PM
"Three May Keep a Secret if Two are Dead"

Quoting Hillary Clinton? :D

MaDef
04-14-23, 08:26 AM
Quoting Hillary Clinton? :D

Benjamin Franklin. (poor Richards Almanac. 1735)

"Harradin" Hillary takes the idiom literally.

mapuc
04-14-23, 10:28 AM
Hmm There's a thing I can't add up in my head, maybe you could enlighten me with this riddle.

This young man who was arrested worked as Air National Guardsman.
How could he access secret and top secret paper from different areas inside the Intelligent ?

In my wold these guards do not have access to these type of paper.

Maybe it's different in USA ?

Markus

August
04-14-23, 11:00 AM
Hmm There's a thing I can't add up in my head, maybe you could enlighten me with this riddle.

This young man who was arrested worked as Air National Guardsman.
How could he access secret and top secret paper from different areas inside the Intelligent ?

In my wold these guards do not have access to these type of paper.

Maybe it's different in USA ?

Markus


It depends on his particular job.

At one point even though I was just a buck (junior) Sergeant I was the highest cleared person on Fort Devens because I was working in the post communications center and needed access to intel traffic going all the resident units and separate commands so I could process it.

Back then everything was done on punch cards and teletype paper so making illicit copies of classified materials was nearly impossible. These days it must be a security nightmare now that everything is transmitted electronically. You just can't achieve the same level of control over electronic media that you can with stamped and numbered hard copies.

mapuc
04-14-23, 11:07 AM
It depends on his particular job.

At one point even though I was just a buck (junior) Sergeant I was the highest cleared person on Fort Devens because I was working in the post communications center and needed access to intel traffic going all the resident units and separate commands so I could process it.

Back then everything was done on punch cards and teletype paper so making illicit copies of classified materials was nearly impossible. These days it must be a security nightmare now that everything is transmitted electronically.

Thank you Dave.

I thought why not search for information about this.

And found this article:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/04/13/us/documents-leak-pentagon

The man is a member of the intelligence wing of the Massachusetts Air National Guard and is tied to an online group where the leaked documents first appeared.

This quote made me even more confused-Air National Guard-How can it be that they have access to secret and top secret paper and not only from one place but several places ?

I think it must be me who are thinking Danish and Danish National Guard(Hjemmeværnet)

Markus

MaDef
04-14-23, 11:18 AM
Hmm There's a thing I can't add up in my head, maybe you could enlighten me with this riddle.

This young man who was arrested worked as Air National Guardsman.
How could he access secret and top secret paper from different areas inside the Intelligent ?

In my wold these guards do not have access to these type of paper.

Maybe it's different in USA ?

Markus
I'm not sure, but I would guess with the advent of the internet, cell phones and personal electronics, it would be easier to get copies. I was in the Navy when the SNAP II system was coming online (for ordering supplies). Back then the Division Chief was the only one allowed to access the system. As I recall I was given access by my Chief ( he provided password and authorized me to use the system without proper authority) and I was only a 3rd class P.O. at the time.

I held a Top Secret clearance while I was active duty, due to my rating (I was a Gunner's mate). However I could only access information relevant to my job. in other words I could access information on all the weapons and munitions we carried, I also had access to threat assessments and security measures as GM's were tasked with physical security of that command.

Any information I accessed had to be approved either by command policy or via special request up the chain of command. Strict chain of custody was observed in either case.

mapuc, just found this:
Teixeira joined the Air National Guard in September 2019 and worked as a cybersecurity systems journeyman, a position in which he held the highest-level security clearance

His job required high level access. a lot of military & intelligence networks are linked at some point which allowed this guy to skip from the National Guard, over to the pentagon, NSA, CIA, etc.

Skybird
04-14-23, 11:33 AM
I assum ethe problem was not so much the boy-man enforcing himslf access to data or somehtiugn like that, but that superiors mindlessly did not care if he handled classified material, thinking maybe "he was harmless", or "a good boy".

August
04-14-23, 11:40 AM
I'm not sure, but I would guess with the advent of the internet, cell phones and personal electronics, it would be easier to get copies.


That's exactly what it is. Classified documents in a paper based system are stamped and numbered and there is a physical chain of custody from the time they leave the comm center to the time they get to the designated recipient.

Once you put that stuff out on the internet you loose that physical chain of custody and this is the result.

Buddahaid
04-15-23, 06:41 PM
Freaking MTG defends the fricking traitor! She is a traitor.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/599x385q70/924/KMGmeW.png

Rockstar
04-16-23, 06:33 AM
I seem to recall that just a few years ago someone else leaked classified information about another ‘regime’, but that guy was seen by Democrats as Superman risking his life for truth justice and the American way. In fact weren’t you among those defending Lt Col. Vindmam a man also accused of leaking classified information as a hero of the state, whistleblower, and defender of freedom?

Personally I think both Vindmam, Teixeira and anyone else even thinking about it should be in jail. But I do feel a bit sorry for Teixeria, that young impressionable kid was just following Vindman’s example thinking he’d be defended as a hero, get a high paying job and book deal too.

“Remember the rules…If you illegally leak anything classified against Trump regime…you’re a brave whistleblower, and you’ll get a million-dollar book deal or a job at CNN. If you illegally leak anything classified against the Biden regime, even if it proves they’re lying about a war… you’ll get raided by the FBI, perp-walked, slammed in the press as a traitor, and probably spend the rest of your life in prison.”

You can’t have it both ways.

Onkel Neal
04-16-23, 08:31 AM
Freaking MTG defends the fricking traitor! She is a traitor.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/599x385q70/924/KMGmeW.png

Yeah, she's an idiot. God, what did we do to deserve this? :wah:

How the NYT caught up with him: (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/13/world/europe/jack-teixeira-pentagon-leak.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20230416&instance_id=90336&nl=the-morning&regi_id=169031764&segment_id=130576&te=1&user_id=738daf69a674e5554eacfd5a372d1cf9)

They first met on a server called Oxide Hub, a large military-focused community on Discord, a social media platform popular among gamers — but abandoned it in favor of a closed, tighter-knit group.
They did not hide some of their extreme ideological views. On Steam, another popular gamer platform, members of the group traded racist and antisemitic epithets and appeared in other groups featuring Nazi iconography.
Vahki admitted to retweeting racist memes. “There’s no point hiding it,” Vahki said. “I’m not a good person.”

Platapus
04-16-23, 09:50 AM
Hmm There's a thing I can't add up in my head, maybe you could enlighten me with this riddle.

This young man who was arrested worked as Air National Guardsman.
How could he access secret and top secret paper from different areas inside the Intelligent ?

In my wold these guards do not have access to these type of paper.

Maybe it's different in USA ?

Markus




This is a cyclic problem in the US Intelligence Community (IC).


In the past, in order to have access to classified information, a person had to possess two separate statuses.



1. Updated security clearance that allows access to that specific level of information
2. Demonstrated "Need to Know".


The concept was that just because an individual had the clearance does not mean that person automatically gains access to the information. Their job needed to have access and this NTK was, in many cases, officially documented by certifying officials (supervisor/Division Chief/...)


Only if a person possessed 1 and 2, were they allowed access to only that information they needed to perform their official duties.


Then 911 happened.


In addition to other over reactions, the 911 commission found that the IC was "too restrictive" (what ever that meant) and that there were instances where people who, retroactively, needed access to specific types of information were unable to gain access in a timely manner.


Congress clutched their pearls and exclaimed "oh how could this have happened? Something must be done!"



Note: NTK is still part of Federal law and Executive Branch directives.


So there was a movement, unofficially, called Need to Share. Under this unwise policy, information was restricted only if it could be demonstrated that an individual did not need access.


Officially, we still had NTK, but practically, if someone asked for access, they were given it.



Instead of demonstrating that a person needed access, it was presumed that absent of any conflicting information they would have access simply based on their active security clearance.



This was a knee-jerk overreaction. The solution was to fix the system so that the right people could get the right access to the right information at the right time. Not just open up the flood gates.



Fortunately, the panic of 2001 has faded by the 2010's and sanity started creeping back in. After all, NTK was still the law!


Unfortunately bad changes can happen quickly, especially when politically motivated, and good changes happen slowly, especially when logic and reason are involved.


Things are getting better, but we still have instances, such as this one, where Comms people, who have a valid NTK about the communications systems are given access to the information in the Communications systems which they don't have a NTK.



There simply is no reason why a secure coms cable tech like this person was should have had access to the data. All their responsibilities concern the proper installation, inspection, testing, and verification that the data links between part A and part B work according to standards.



Think if it in the terms of a Telephone installation/repair guy. Does he need to have access to your phone conversations? No. He needs access to the comm lines and have the ability to send test data to check the lines, but he has no NTK about your private conversations.



I predict that there will be a series of investigations, with political motivations, and some sort of knee-jerk over reaction as congress clutches their pearls and exclaims "oh how could this have happened? Something must be done!".


And the cycle continues......

mapuc
04-16-23, 10:05 AM
Thank you Platapus. :salute:

I'm convinced there will come some changes and who can access them.

Markus

MaDef
04-16-23, 11:24 AM
Think if it in the terms of a Telephone installation/repair guy. Does he need to have access to your phone conversations? No. He needs access to the comm lines and have the ability to send test data to check the lines, but he has no NTK about your private conversations. interesting analogy, I know for a fact that those telephone repairman can and do inadvertently become privy to those conversations in the course of their repair work.

I think that is likely what happened in this case, the Airman inadvertently gained access in the course of his duties, and let his curiosity get the better of him. he then compounded his error in judgement by disseminating that info across the internet. Regardless of his intent, the Kid needs time in the Brig.

Commander Wallace
04-16-23, 12:04 PM
It depends on his particular job.

At one point even though I was just a buck (junior) Sergeant I was the highest cleared person on Fort Devens because I was working in the post communications center and needed access to intel traffic going all the resident units and separate commands so I could process it.

Back then everything was done on punch cards and teletype paper so making illicit copies of classified materials was nearly impossible. These days it must be a security nightmare now that everything is transmitted electronically. You just can't achieve the same level of control over electronic media that you can with stamped and numbered hard copies.


That's certainly the mechanics of handling sensitive and classified information. For me, the Issue is what would make this kid essentially sell out his country, and for what. Reports suggest this kid did this to " Impress his little internet friends." His efforts have hurt another country ( The Ukraine ) which is fighting for it's freedom against an aggressor country. Other information he disseminated on the internet has hurt other countries and our standing with them. We may have our Issues with our Goverment but that doesn't mean you sell it out.

You, like many I have know in the military and our esteemed veterans here in Subsim would never, ever, for any reason, including money, sell out or undermine our country. Our U.S Government, like many Governments worldwide has it's share of Idiots. George Santos and as Neal and Budda pointed out, Rep Marjorie Taylor Green and Kevin McCarthy Immediately come to mind. The Walker Spy ring and Ronald Pelton also come to mind regarding betraying their country.
I just can't understand what would make someone betray or undermine their country. :k_confused:

mapuc
04-16-23, 12:27 PM
I just can't understand what would make someone betray or undermine their country. :k_confused:

As I wrote before it's more likely that an American would sell top secret stuff to an another country than a person who is born in an another country.

It was a Swedish survey who showed that a huge majority of those spies who got caught from 1940 and forward was Swedish citizens born in Sweden, while a very little part was born outside Sweden.
(This survey was made in the middle of the 90's)

Here is a wiki about the last spy and one of the biggest scandal in Sweden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stig_Bergling

Back to discuss American problems with who should access top secret papers.

Markus

Torvald Von Mansee
04-17-23, 09:43 PM
People likely died because of this kid's actions. He should be shot.


We used to do that to spies.

Buddahaid
04-17-23, 09:51 PM
I know, right? Why then is MAGA making excuses for him?

Torvald Von Mansee
04-17-23, 09:56 PM
No clue.

Aktungbby
04-18-23, 10:23 AM
I imagine that Ukraine, while miffed, will weigh the enormous advantage of US intelligence that has weighed in their favor, along with superior warfare matèriel against the Russian 'elephant' that has afflicted NATO since WWII. I"m amazed at the Russian complete lack of intelligence control that allowed the warning of 'false flag' attacks, et al, by a now-evident third-rate military that was once actually considered for membership in NATO??!:o As I've previously noted, in WWII as his mismanagement of Operation Barbarossa was deemed essential to the Allied war effort, Hitler was NOT assassinated; and so it is proving with with 'Vlad the Grate' Putin. Should he be killed by his own side or die of his rumored cancer, my chief concern is that the Kremlin might actually find someone competent to conduct the the restoration of the neoStalinist iron-curtain empire in contesting the so-called 'Merikan-led "world order". Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania are the next dominos to fall if Ukraine falls...:hmmm:

MaDef
04-18-23, 10:44 AM
People likely died because of this kid's actions. He should be shot.


We used to do that to spies.

Last time the U.S. executed anyone for spying (at least legally) was 1953. :03:

Platapus
04-18-23, 04:10 PM
People likely died because of this kid's actions. He should be shot.


We used to do that to spies.


First he is not being charged with espionage.



FSecond we would have to find evidence that his betrayal actually did result in deaths and also prove that those same people would not have died without the betrayal.


A pretty tough case to prove.



Even Aldrich Ames, whose betrayal was demonstrated to have caused the execution of at least 10 sources was not given the death penalty. We have to settle for him rotting to death in a cage.

August
04-24-23, 09:00 AM
First he is not being charged with espionage.

FSecond we would have to find evidence that his betrayal actually did result in deaths and also prove that those same people would not have died without the betrayal.

A pretty tough case to prove.

Even Aldrich Ames, whose betrayal was demonstrated to have caused the execution of at least 10 sources was not given the death penalty. We have to settle for him rotting to death in a cage.


But according to Budda the "MAGA" is making excuses.