Diabetes 2

[mapuc]

Yesterday I had a blood test - Today I got the sad message from my doctor - Markus you have diabetes
This surprised me as I did not have the most usual symptoms. I am overweight. And it is hereditary. My mother and one of my younger sisters have too this can be the only reason I got it.
diabetes 2 This type of diabetes is also called old man's diabetes

Markus

[Skybird]

The good news is it is type 2, not type 1.

The good news also is that you can most likely reverse it by food adaptation.

The bad news is you need to cut down on sweets and other carbohydrates.

The bad news also is you must cut your weight if you say you are overweight.

The bad news is you shoukd better forget convencience food for quite soem time.

Topics and theory you may want to familiarize yourself with:
- mediterranean diat
- keto diet (and no, that is not a canivore diat exclusively)
- low carb diet
- intermittend fasting
- good versus bad oil and fat
- vitamine D, and supplementation in general on a wide front, in depth.

Dont let your head hang down, there is no reason to. Diabetes type 2 is perfectly treatable, managable - and can be healed. My father has type 2 diabetes, and as I already told in the last two years, he is completely beyond it, age 79 now, needs no more drugs, never took insuline anyway, and the doc is perplexed. No signs that diabetes ever was there.

So, if only you want to deal with it you have good chances to control it, probably even get rid of it.

Type 1, now, that would be bad news.

:salute:

For a start, try with this, I hold that man in high esteem:

https://www.amazon.de/Diabetes-r%C3%BCckg%C3%A4ngig-machen-Ern%C3%A4hrungsprogramm-nat%C3%BCrlich/dp/3742306499/ref=sr_1_3?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3 %91&crid=2068MRHHVPC0&keywords=fung+diabetes&qid=1679003361&sprefix=fung+diabetes%2Caps%2C72&sr=8-3

Or if you prefer the English edition:

https://www.amazon.de/Diabetes-Code-Prevent-Reverse-Naturally/dp/1771642653/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3 %91&crid=2068MRHHVPC0&keywords=fung+diabetes&qid=1679003414&sprefix=fung+diabetes%2Caps%2C72&sr=8-5

also, this:

https://www.amazon.de/Die-Schlankformel-entscheidende-Insulinspiegel-Schlankbleiben/dp/3742300989/ref=sr_1_6?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3 %91&crid=2068MRHHVPC0&keywords=fung+diabetes&qid=1679005185&sprefix=fung+diabetes%2Caps%2C72&sr=8-6

https://www.amazon.de/Obesity-Code-Unlocking-Secrets-Weight/dp/1771641258/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1679005231&sr=8-20

Diabetes Type 2 is a symptom for a dysbalance in hormones, namely insuline and grelin, the way to tackle that dysbalance is via tackling consummation of carbohydrates to avoid insuline spikes, and switch energy production from carbs-based to ketone-based. If you get it right, you will eat plenty of healthy fats, must not hunger, and loose weight without falling victim to jojo effects. I dropped from 92 to 77kg in 6 months, and kept that weight for an additional 12 months, without jojo. Then I ate more carbs again, a few sweets but espeically bread - and gained weight again - my own fault. But I know that it works now. I did it, and I kept it. I see it in my father. And I read many other patient cases.

Do yourself a favour when you start to implent measures - do not even start to count calories, thats total nonsense. It leads you nowhere, only kills pleasure. Also, sports is good for many things, for the heart, blood system, lungs, muscles - but forget about trying to use sports to acchieve a calory deficit. Sport is fantastically unsuited for that purpose! ;)

Do not reduce food intake to a degree where you still feel hungry. Take in all energy your body needs - but make it switching energy production from carbs to fats. Your body knows it, it did that for many months when you were a newborn, it must only be reminded of it that it can do that way. Once you get into thismetabolic state - called ketosis - you body then will start to not only use the fat you eat to prodcue energy, but will realise that he can do the same with the fat in your fat reserves. And then you start to loose weight while eating rich and fatty!

Mediterranean diet has no commonly agreed definition, there are many variations in understanding what it actually is. But some similiarities are this: very few carbs (little or no pasta or bread for exmaple!). Plenty of good olive oil and fatty sea fruits. Plenty of vegetables. No sugars.

Avoid all unfermented soy. Avoid plant oil (rape, sunflower, soy, corn etc).

Avoid "Sättigungsbeilagen" like potatoes, noodles, rice. Eat the vegetables, meat, fish, but no carbs like noodles, potatoes, rice. If you want that, do it rarely andf then as a main dish that you do not eat often. If you nevertheless want side dishes, choose hirse or oats.

Have oats days.

If you are on a three meal schemes, reduce it to two meals, say breakfast and lunch. Try breakfast shortened to just a fatty coffee.

DO NOT SNACK between these meals.

Markus, there is much you can do about this diagnosis, and if you get it right, i am certain to 95% that you can get completely free of type 2 diabetes. As long as you have no additional health issues that I do not know.

And please - do not what the health authorities of your government advice you to do or some Danish food or diet association like the German Deutsche Gesellschaft für Ernährung. Their advices sometimes are simply outright toxic.

BTW, plenty of vegetable - but not more than one fruit per day at max! The sweeter the fruit, the more fructose it contains. Not good. Dark berries would be best, they say.

If you do fasting, remember that you need salt. PLENTY of it. NEVER save on salt.


Vinegar helps to keep insuline lower. Vinegar or cheese before the emal is always a good idea. Apple vinegar in water, two spoons already is enough.


:up:

Last tip: do not run such a strict regime now that you cannot maintain motivation for longer time to keep it up. There is no use in doing it ultra tough for three months, and then you run out of compliance and stop it. Do it softer, but aim for the longer haul.

And some really bad news: better ban alcohol for a year or so. Body takes plenty of energy from it, sabotaging your attempt to switch to fat-based energy metabolism.

[Skybird]

And forget the term "old man diabetes", that is nonsense. We have a pandemic in diabetes in young adults in all the world where Western food habits have taken the regime. Especially American fast food is a disaster. Taking cyanide would be more practical, and cost-economic. We have kids in schools that are as fat as a dugong - and have diabetes type 2 at age 10. Type 2 comes from an derailed metabolic handling of insuline levels, and these come from bad food habits and way too many carbohydrates.

The best general golden rule I can give, is this:

Eeat in such a way that you avoid high frequencies and amplitudes of your insuline production.

Less spikes over the day by eating less often. Lower spikes by eating certain things and others not: avoid carbohydrates.

Less often. Intermittend fasting. Cut down on carbs.

Push your Vitamine D...!!!

[Eichhörnchen]

Thanks for writing all of that down for him, Sky - very good-hearted of you :Kaleun_Salute:

[mapuc]

Thank you so much for taking your time to give me some well placed recommendations.

My elder sister who's an educated Nurse-Told me this evening, when I had a talk with her, almost the same, except she didn't mention this Keto-diet.

My Doctor has sent me to a dietician-Awaiting a call from them.

I have been studying this Keto-diet and for some reason haven't paid for a subscription to receive their recipes. I've been thinking about it and when I read the stuff on the page I doesn't come further..than just read.

My head is not hanging-It could have been worse you know.

Markus

[Reece]

Yes it certainly could be worse!! Retraining your body will take a while but is eventually becomes the new norm and start to feel good about yourself and quite satisfied with the new "Markus". :yep:
I am quite sure you can beat this, all the best mate! :up:

[les green01]

Markus don't feel bad i been type 2 for 3 years you will want to keep your blood sugar between 89 and 120 don't go below 89 or you will end up flat on your back i been there and done that one rest of it pretty much like sky said.you can use artifical sugar in stuff if you get a sweet tooth soda pop be diet or sugar free 3 square meals and a snack excirise helps keep the sugar down if you got to prick your fingers be ready for sore fingers if you dont bleed much and have tough skin

[Skybird]

I must hold back myself a bit, markus, because I am not your doctor, you cannot hold me accountable if I give youa dviose that doe sharm to you, and finally I do nto know wether you have any other health issues that contradict what I would additionally like to say.


Some time ago, alm ost three year or so, I had a blood test due to ambulant jaw surgery , the test on heart, blood and lungs was needed for the anesthesia, that I could sustain it. Some of the indices told me that I was at risk of developing a socalled metabolic syndrome, or non-alcoholic fatty liver - either I was at risk or already was at the early stage of it. I weighed 92 kg, at aheight of 177 cm. Way too much. When i was young, i always was thin like an eel.



I started first with changing eating habits. I had no more bread and nougat creme for breakfast but bacon and eggs and plenty of salt, then a mug of coffee with only little milk and very very little sweetness, but a full teapsoon of coconut oil. 1-2 slices of Goudy cheese, oin the eggs. Then 3 walnuts or so, a tablespoon os sunflower seed, linseed (never the oil, alway the seeds, guys!), and a tablespoon of pumpkin seeds. Nexyt for breakfast, an apple of a low-.sweetness but quite soar character, but then switching to Braeburn which I simply like best. NO BREAD. Now that was one of the sacrifices I had to accept, I olove bread I bakle dit myself for most of my life. But truth is man is not made to digest wheat, rye, it ALWAYS causes an inflammation in our guts, in everybody,a nd iot boosts insuline, it makes us fat. Sad, but true. I also started intermittend fasting, I have breakfast above at noon, and a warm meal around 6-8 pm. No snacks, no sweets, no beer or wine.



For the warm meal I had a piece of meat or fish, mostly, and some vegetables - I must admit: not as much vegetables as I should, I am no friend of vegetables and must always force myself to eat them. I do, but I cannot enjoy it, its purely rational, nothing lustful. No potatoes, noodles, rice or anythging: none. Also, again a hiuge dose of fishoil and Omega 3. I consume 4 gr netto of Omega 3 per day, thats 16 gr of that oil I use.


Addiutonal to these two meals, I started to supplement, over the day, in mainly three doses to keep certain minerals apart int ime a bit. A take the fujll braodside, a full volley, but not blidnly, Ideveloped myslef into this by leanrign and readings more and more. I do it for reasons, not for hopes.



I ate very fat, pkenbty of thes eoils and iolive oil, butter, cream. Never aythign that has "Light product" written on it. Nver! I allowe dmyself two pieces of butter chocolade and two butter cookies per day, and I ate them close to the wamr meal so that it woudl be just one insuline spike, not more. I sorted out all plant opils, and replaced them with coconut oil, and gee. IUn the firts year I had to repalce some of my vitamine supplements due to learning how to do certain things better.



I also fastened two days the week, I did not eat after sunday evening, and not avgaion beforte Tuesday evening. I got used to that quite fast, the first weeks it was not so nice, but not due to physical stress, but psychological revolts in my mind.



I did this for six months, and soon started to loose weight. Around a pöij dper week. Makes 2kg per month. After six month, i had lost 13 kg, was at 77kg. I did another blood test, and the values were much better. Then and in later tests especially my fatty acids analysis showed bombastically good values, and my Calcidiol levels (Vit-D) are now exceeding 80 ng/ml). The doc swallowed when seeing it, he did not like my ways anyway, and when I told him that I followed Brownstein's approach to the topic of iodine he almost became angry. I meanhwile have changed my doc.



I kept on reaodng. I owe a very lot to the names of Dr. Fung (insuline and diabetes, obesity, inter,ittend fasting, fasting, Dr. Dinicolantonio (fats and oils, salt), Prof. von Schacky (Omega-3), Dr. Brownstein (iodine), Prof- Hollkick and other son Vitmaine D, Prof- Spitz (Vitmaine D and fats and oil) and various authors on keto food, intermittend fasting and all kinds of supploemntaiton (vitamines, minerals, trace elements).



I have lost amny helath siusues I had for most of my life. I have not been ill sicne three yeras, were before I had at least four times a year a flu at least. I redcued my blood pressure medication. My heart rate normalised. Severla skin isuuses are no more. severla mouth issues are no more.



After the intial 6 mon ths, I did not loose wight anymore, it did not dop further. I oc ninuted what I had done, and kept that weight of 77 for another year, easily. No yoyo.


Then somethiug nappened, I lost complaince. after all, even if all what I did was just a mild form of sacrificing taste and joy, it nevertheless is a sacrifice. Adn I wanted back mro of what I had given up: snack at the mdionight film. Habe bread again. Pasta as main dish. And a bit more chocolade and marcipane. Occasionally a beer again.



Thats why I am now at 85kg again, 18 months later. :haha: I kn ow wehnat happened, and why, its all competely my own fault. Still, my intial way to loose wieghtr by eating penty and fat, worked.



Fats do not make you fat. Insuline makes you fat. Eat stuff that raises insuline, and you become fat and increasingly insuline resistent (=diabetes). Control your insuline, and you loose weight and become healthy again. Diabetes is a hormonal dysbalance.


tell yout his, Markus, so that you see that you can infleunce your status, and that I have good reaosns why I preach the thigns that I have explaiend, and often so now. It snot just the content of aorudn two dozen boosk I have red abot these thigns in recewnt trhree years - itsd also the poratcial expoeirnce: my own, and tta I see in ym ftaher, anbd my mother. They follwoed my advices, and thery are mcunb ebtter off, age 79 and 75. Both dropped their meds significantly.



Thats why I give you the tips that I give you! :salute: BTW, my last blood test, depsite my too hig wight again, were good, and my new doc also was perplexed a bit , he said it were quite uncommon that a man of my age and BMI has zero indices of inflammations in his body. Usually a man of my status would have at least very few, minor signs, even if these were so low that they had practically no meaning for my health currently. Well, what should I say. Plenty of Omega 3, Vitamine-D, Ubiquinol, Iodine, and their needed supplements, and others. :D


Its up to you, Markus. You have all options in your hand. If I were you, I would, consider that diagnosis as something temporary only! :03:

I will not comment on this topic any further, but if you have questions, ask, then I will try to answer to my best ability. But do not forget, my scope is very specialised and thus: also limited. I lack the wide general education of a general doctor and can challenge a doctor only within that clearly defined and narrow perspective I learned - not beyond.

[Skybird]

Markus don't feel bad i been type 2 for 3 years you will want to keep your blood sugar between 89 and 120 don't go below 89 or you will end up flat on your back i been there and done that one rest of it pretty much like sky said.you can use artifical sugar in stuff if you get a sweet tooth soda pop be diet or sugar free 3 square meals and a snack excirise helps keep the sugar down if you got to prick your fingers be ready for sore fingers if you dont bleed much and have tough skin
Be advised that artificial sweeteners also produce insuline spikes, some as high as that from sugar, varying according to the choosen sweetener (some also have even more calories than sugar). The mechanism is different to that of consuming sugar and carbs and is not yet fully understood. Miscommunication between guts and brain and "irritated" neurotransmitters seem to have to do with it. Research goes on, but the incidences are now quite big that sweetener also cause insuline production, like sugar.

But here is a tip. The reward centre in the brain has a neurostructure that reacts to salty taste, sweet taste and hard drugs like opium, cocain, heroin. Its all the same structure. When this structure is excited and makes you scan for something sweet, put some salt in your mouth instead. The craving for sweetness will maybe not completely disappear, but will ease signficantly! ;)

They were able to show a statistically very significant link between the salt status of pregnant women, and the likelihood of their babies later becomign drug addcits or diabetes patients (due to sugar-focussed food habits). When the mother does not eat enough salt (and iodine), there is not enough salt she can "pump" into her baby short before birth. This usally happens because it is extremely important for the baby to have high ammounts and reserves of both salt and iodine, the mother is practically empty of both after she has delivered.

Now, when baby has not gotten enough salt, the brain structure I mentioned has an inbuilt set focus (for all life!) for salt due to the deficit, but since the same brain structure controls the craving and rewarding regarding sweetness or drug induced "happiness", the craving for salt can be eased by eating sweets instead - or taking drugs. That raises the vulnerability for abusing sugar, and drugs, and thus the raised likelihood that salt-deficitary babies later in their life develope drug addiction or diabetes.

It works the other way, too. If you feel appetite for something sweet, cure that by tasting salt. Salt is harmless (there are so many myths about how dangerou salt is, dont get me started...) - sugar is not.

We can live healthily and survive completely without sugar and carbs - if onyl we eat enough fat and salt. We are born in a state in ketosis, and stay in that for many months. The body must not learn it - he must remember that he already has that ability. Try the same trick the other way around - try to survive by carbs only, but no fats and salt. You'll be dead before the year is done.

Thick, tasty grains of stone salt or sea salt. Thats the trick! Its always on my TV table, instead of sweets. Works.

[Skybird]

I have been studying this Keto-diet and for some reason haven't paid for a subscription to receive their recipes. I've been thinking about it and when I read the stuff on the page I doesn't come further..than just read.
You said you speak German as well.

https://www.amazon.de/Keto-Kompass-Aktuelles-Ern%C3%A4hrung-Wirkweisen-Anwendungen/dp/3742309889/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3 %91&crid=9DCV8XYI5NTZ&keywords=der+keto+kompass&qid=1679010168&sprefix=de+rketo+kompass%2Caps%2C69&sr=8-1

Very competent authors, I know three of the four ladies from other readings and youtube videos as well. They know their stuff.



The most relevant is that you understand the principles and the logic behind keto and low carb (and intermittend fasting). It may not be needed to excessively follow it in a pure form - I did not, I took some of its principles for generalla orientation. I benefitted from that already. Only the time table of the intermittend fasting plan you mabye will choose should be obeyed for sure. 16:8 means you do not eat in that 16 hours window, only in that 8 hours window, every day. No exceptions. And you do not overeat then, of course, you do not eat "in advance", but normally.

My head is not hanging-It could have been worse you know.
Indeed, it could have dropped off. :D

[ET2SN]

Markus, hang tough and think of this as a wake up call. :up:

It takes three days to learn a new habit. Don't fixate on it or over-think it, just let it happen. Just do me one favor and touch base with your Dr. before you pick a diet.

[Jimbuna]

I was diagnosed Type 2 over ten year ago and honestly this should not and need not be a big deal. Take the sensible steps you will receive from your medical practitioner and everything should be okay.

I take two tablets a day and all is well.

Now Type 1 is a totally different ball gam. My friend Sailor Steve was Type 1 and some of the stories he shared with me were quite concerning but still controllable as long as the medical advice was adhered to.

[Commander Wallace]

I'm very sorry to hear of your diagnosis, Markus. still, between the advice your sister gave you and the great advice from Sky, Les , Jimbuna and others and following the directive of your health care practitioners, you should be ok.



In reading what Jim said, you have someone here living with it everyday and it's not slowing Jim down at all. Wishing you all the best, Markus. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[stoppro]

I have had it since 2004 A1C 7.4. Now doing the right things A1C has been 6.1 for 15 years.Just get the routine thats works for you stick with it.Took a couple years to balance out, but it will.

[Catfish]

Hello Markus,
also sorry to hear this but after reading some texts and a book i take it Skyird and the others are right. Just have a talk with your doctor and maybe let you advise some lectures to listen to. If the spikes are not excessive there is a very good chance to live without even taking pills like Metformin and such.

Apart from this ketogene "diet" (you really do not have to suffer when taking this way) movement is very good for you, as is getting your weight to a reasonable number (no idea if this is even necessary).

Exercising (which i hate lol) or just moving your body brings down any sugar/carbohydrate spike instantly. So if you like wandering, bicycling or just strolling a bit helps immensely, it does not have to be for a long time.

I understand you read german, so here is a quite good link (there are thousands of others of course)
https://eatsmarter.de/abnehmen/diaeten/ketogene-diaet

All the best! Keep your head up :salute:

[GoldenRivet]

And forget the term "old man diabetes", that is nonsense. We have a pandemic in diabetes in young adults in all the world where Western food habits have taken the regime. [/B]

You're right about that one

My wife brought home some colas for me to try (I usually drink sugar free soda)... read the label and about crapped my pants

serving size, one can... 101% of the recommended daily allowance for sugar

i thought - man if you had one with lunch and one with dinner, you have had a TON of sugar. needless to say i rationed them out about a quarter bottle at a time over the course of a few weeks. but still. many dont read those labels. or they overlook them entirely. before you know it you have had a Month's worth of sugar in a matter of 4 days

and fast food burgers especially, the buns... its like meat between two slices of cake

[Skybird]

This is an excerpt from a 90 minutes speech.

You can activate subtitles and then switch on English bot translation, because it is in German.

I like this ma, becasue he has a classical medical background, has a sense for hunmour, and his speeches are very entertaining. Time flies when listening to him. He was a radiologist and as such head of diagnostics in the municipal clinics in I think Wiesbaden, and also founded a diagnostics institute. After his retirement (!) he additionally made his specialist degree for preventive medicine, and afterwards another one for nutritional medicine. Since then he has been touring with lectures, and founded a communication network, in which he brings specialists from different disciplines together, and these together with the lay public. - So he knows both sides of the medical business: the classical orthodox medicine, for which he sometimes apologizes today, and the new, alternative ways of looking at things. Better it does not get: when you get the best of BOTH worlds.


On carbohydrates and sugar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFOp81Tc9y8


Edit:
I just realised that the bot-translation is not good, because the old man mumbles too often. Sorry, guys! But Markus understands a bit of German. :)

[Rockstar]

You're right about that one

My wife brought home some colas for me to try (I usually drink sugar free soda)... read the label and about crapped my pants

serving size, one can... 101% of the recommended daily allowance for sugar

i thought - man if you had one with lunch and one with dinner, you have had a TON of sugar. needless to say i rationed them out about a quarter bottle at a time over the course of a few weeks. but still. many dont read those labels. or they overlook them entirely. before you know it you have had a Month's worth of sugar in a matter of 4 days

and fast food burgers especially, the buns... its like meat between two slices of cake

Dats why Rasta drink only DG Genuine Jamaican SOF Drink KOLA. 88% dv sugar per 12 oz serving, ya mon. :D

https://i.postimg.cc/154L1TPr/BF8246-A4-61-B5-4-B9-C-B36-B-EBAD6067-D5-B8.jpg

[nikimcbee]

I was diagnosed Type 2 over ten year ago and honestly this should not and need not be a big deal. Take the sensible steps you will receive from your medical practitioner and everything should be okay.

I take two tablets a day and all is well.

Now Type 1 is a totally different ball gam. My friend Sailor Steve was Type 1 and some of the stories he shared with me were quite concerning but still controllable as long as the medical advice was adhered to.

You're right about that one

My wife brought home some colas for me to try (I usually drink sugar free soda)... read the label and about crapped my pants

serving size, one can... 101% of the recommended daily allowance for sugar

i thought - man if you had one with lunch and one with dinner, you have had a TON of sugar. needless to say i rationed them out about a quarter bottle at a time over the course of a few weeks. but still. many dont read those labels. or they overlook them entirely. before you know it you have had a Month's worth of sugar in a matter of 4 days

and fast food burgers especially, the buns... its like meat between two slices of cake


Whoa, how did I not see this? Everything that Sky said! Try and go low carb or keto as much as possible! I've been T1 for 40+ years. Frankly, I'm not sure, why i'm still alive? I'm essentially a T2 now, because my insulin to carb ration is really low! If I go full keto, I don't have to take any extra insulin, my pump can handle it! Stay the hell away from rice! That f-s up my blood sugar like nothing else!

1. Don't get discouraged!
2. Find a diet you can live with.
3. See your doctor as often as possible, meet with a diabetes educator. (By doctor, I mean a diabetes doc, NOT a general doc) General is better than nothing, IF there's no diabetes doc around.
4. Get a blood glucose monitor that goes in your arm or stomach, or wherever. If you can afford it, I currently use the Dexcom 6 (it works with my pump), but something along those lines. CGM-continuous glucose monitor.





Are you on the FB Markus?


https://www.dexcom.com/da-DK

[Gorpet]

Yesterday I had a blood test - Today I got the sad message from my doctor - Markus you have diabetes
This surprised me as I did not have the most usual symptoms. I am overweight. And it is hereditary. My mother and one of my younger sisters have too this can be the only reason I got it.
diabetes 2 This type of diabetes is also called old man's diabetes

Markus

Well it all depends,I had two brethren laws each one had a leg cut off up to the knee. And as soon as their wifes found out about their condition.They applied for every social platform that was available.And their not here anymore,But a younger man was willing to step up.

[les green01]

my doc wanted me to stop at all pop even diet or sugar free,you also got to watch the milk products way the doc talks even smoking brings up the blood sugar

[August]

my doc wanted me to stop at all pop even diet or sugar free,you also got to watch the milk products way the doc talks even smoking brings up the blood sugar




Not sure how much soda you drink but the results of quitting can be pretty dramatic. I was drinking maybe one a day and when I stopped I dropped over 25lbs from that alone.

[les green01]

Not sure how much soda you drink but the results of quitting can be pretty dramatic. I was drinking maybe one a day and when I stopped I dropped over 25lbs from that alone.

i drink a 2 litre sometime once a week sometimes goes a couple of weeks between

[August]

i drink a 2 litre sometime once a week sometimes goes a couple of weeks between




If your experience is anything like mine you will notice a difference then.

[mapuc]

If your experience is anything like mine you will notice a difference then.

I drink 3-4 33 cl Coca Cola each week, and around 3 sometimes 4 cup of coffee per day and I drink water for the rest..this depends sometimes I'm below 1 Litre of water and sometime, here I'm thinking Summer, I drink several Litre of water.

Markus

[Skybird]

Weight fluctuations due to fluctuations in water balance should not be confused with weight loss effects. The weight may fluctuate from one day to the next by say 1-3 pounds, but this is not weight loss due to reduction in adipose tissue. It is only daily fluctuations.

If there are no metabolic diseases or kidney disorders, and there are no needs to flush out waste products from certain medications taken, there is no need to drink "on schedule". In the very young and the very old, the feeling of thirst may not be reliable as an indicator of the need to drink - here it may be advisable to drink according to a schedule, or have somebody watching over the kids and old. The recommendation to drink 2.5 litres daily is derived from a vague estimate from the times of the Second World War, so it is not really scientifically based. The 2.5 litres often quoted also includes the amount of liquid that the eaten food of the day contains, and that can be a considerable amount! Many people with no further health problems will, if they are not excessively fat and of above-average height and live in moderate temperates, manage with around 1.5 liters of drunk water, ll drinsk added up. And who feels more thirst, herrje, then drink even more, if you are happy then! Only, to force oneself to drink, because a plan wants it so, without that there is a by illness caused reason, that is really quite stupid! What do you think, how people have survived for tens of thousands of years - mostly in nutritional deficiencies...? Our bodies are made for enduring long times of water and food deficits, our kidneys are not there for no reason, and again-and-again recycling of body fluids by the kidneys is not being done and has not developed for no reason. Of course, this process cannot be endlessly repeated, you have to drink and you have to pee at some time. But that we suffer the fall of heaven if we forget to drink every second hour or such stories - that is blatant nonsense. I could laugh my head off, someone gets up, drinks something for breakfast, goes to the bus stop in front of the house, gets on the bus, and as soon as he sits down, he takes out the water bottle with the water as if he just came back from a tour in the desert. They carry their bottles everywhere, like a smartphone, in the office, while walking, shopping, to the cinema... Man, have a little more confidence in your bodies, so completely wrong our evolution has not gone!

The food industry is happy. They are behind it with expensive advertising campaigns to make people believe that they have to drink water all day long, at every opportunity (just like people should eat three meals a day, and four portions of fruit, and muesli, and five different vegetables, and don't forget all the snacks in between, and plenty of fibres, and plenty of cereals...). Of course, this water has to be bought, because not all water is the same, there are all kinds of waters-plus, waters that are just more water than just water, and that costs, and the cash register rings. I have already heard from two doctors that they have more patients who have problems from drinking too much than drinking too little, keyword is flushing out electrolytes and mineral salts.

Only, Markus, Coke and other pops / sweet fizzy drinks you should really deny yourself, without exception. Take the 0.5 liter bottle Coke in the hand, and then imagine that you dissolve 17-20 sugar cubes in it. Yes, that's what it looks like! The bottle half full with sugar cubes. You can easily poke out your eyes with at the insulin spike, so high and pointed it is. That of lite drinks with sweeteners is hardly less excessive. There are even sweeteners that have more calories and cause higher insulin than sugar!

By the way, the same applies to tomato ketchups and BBQ sauces: sugar without end. I like Heinz curry ketchup. But I avoid it now. Its one of the worst offenders. Most, if not all of these kinds of industry sauces are.

If that's still not enough, I'd recommend reading up on the phosphoric acid contained in cola and what it does to the body's nutrient balance and bones: osteoporosis as a possible end result is still in the category of the more harmless side effects. Go figure. Its nasty stuff.

I'll make it short: sweet industrial lemonades of any kind should be avoided, and for diabetics: always. Period. I like cola, yes. But I've thrown it out. And see, life goes on anyway.

If you are in need for something sweet, eat somethign salty instead. It satisfies the neural structure in your brain that makes you craving for sweet taste, its one and the same neural structure. A thick grain of sea salt works wonder. Much better than taking a candy! And harmless, completely. There is no reason - but many lies told - to want saving salt.

[mapuc]

Funny you mentioned this plan on drinking 2½ liters of water per day.

Some years ago I said to my doctor-It is said that I should drink around 2-2½ liters of water, but I have difficulty to even drink a liter a day.

Then she said

But you do drink water when thirsty

Me:
Of course I drink to the point where I'm not thirsty anymore. There's a difference between winter and summer. During Summer and hot weather I can drink up to 3-4 liters per day.

Then she said

Well then everything is ok-These 2½ liter water per day is an average of what an active ground-up should drink per day.
(Taken from memory, so I can have missed some words)

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Plenty of water in the beer I drink :yeah:

[Skybird]

Drinking? Hehe, a tale from my own life.

I'm 56. I did sports, martila arts, was trained in unarmed self defence, Wing Tsun, opportunistic stuff. Swords, archery. Almost professionally, for short time I even was trainer, until an accident. I was always thin until the past 5, 6 years. I was physiclaly nevertheless fit. I was trained in my youth in meditation. I was aölmost "Karate Kid", my mentor, an orchestra colleguae of my ftaher, even was Japanese. :D

Now. Since school, my heart rate at rest (AT REST!!) was around 105, 110, 115, in that range. Others have that when they do sport, do warm up! Strangely - no doctor ever cared for that! The onyl one who ever ntoice dit, was my sport steahcer at school, who often send me for an extra lap of walking to "calm down".

When i did my long bike tours all day long, I sweat. Better,m I drowned the land in my sweat, you cannot imagine how mucz I sweat. I had to carry 3-4 bottles (1 litre each) with me, and still buy some during the tour, when there was opportunity. And when I was back home, I drank on, 2 liters more. Sick? Yes, sick. Sick for sure. When I were on my journeys to North Africa and the ME, it was a real problem. The heat was killing me. And I needed to drink, you cannot imagine how much I drank. And that stuff did not copme just form nowhere, I had to prepare, think ahead, carry it, buy it - it weas a prblem. And I collapsed three times. At healthy weight, and physically fit.

When I was put on drigs against bhghi blood pressure in 2008, the doc still did not care for te high heart rate of mine, onyl cautioned me not to take too much salt. :88)

I never saved on salt, it sounded stupid to me, due to my sweating, but I also did not take it excessively. I never thought about it, so I just took the "ordinary ammount", according to taste and appetite.

Well, aroudn the b eginning of Corona, i started to boost my consummation of salt, and drmaatically. I booste dit upwards from around 3gr per day to 8, 9 gr, if not more. It was as if I had flipped a switch. The forst huge intake aroudn noontome - and in the late afternoon my heart rate at rest was down to low 70s, high 60s. From 110+. Wowh! Just wowh! Within hours.

And when I do the same bike tours now, I get along, even on summerdays, with one bottle of water, not even a full litre. And often i do not need it in full. I must not change clothes when I am at the top of a certain hill I must pass over every time (I swet so excessively before that I was "pitschnass", really had to change clothes, completely, evertyhing - and then again when I drove back home, I was dripping from my clothes with sweat).

What a difference a healthy dose of salt makes! Drinking much less. Sweating much less. You now ma yunderstand why I say: people, for heavens sake stop believing them fools and eat more - not less - salt. It was as if my body told me: okay, you have drunk all that stuff, but you drank the wrong stuff without salt in it. Keep on drinking, maybe you finally realise what you are doing, and you start to add much more salt to your drinks. Idiot!

How does it work? The salt content in the blood is an extremely important variable, the body monitors it very closely and keeps it within narrow toleance limits. Now, if the salt level in the blood decreases ("eat less salt!"), the body tries to increase the salt level again by reducing the blood volume: the salt then present is distributed in less blood, and thus the salt level increases. However, the blood is more viscous and less fluid, and at the same time the extracted fluid has entered the cells of the surrounding tissues, which are now bulging and thus press on the blood vessels. This is called periheral vascular resistance. This increases, and so the heart has to work harder: it has to work harder and beat more frequently: the heart rate goes up. If one eats salt, the game is reversed: to reduce the amount of salt in the blood, the body dilutes the blood volume with fluid from the surrounding tissue layers, which then relax and exert less pressure on the veins. The blood becomes more fluid again and in the dilated vessels the peripheral vascular resistance decreases: the heart can do its work with less effort and reduce its beat rate. - It is hard to imagine how many millions of people have died prematurely in the last hundred years because of medical advice to cut down on salt!

Higher intake of Sodium nevertheless needs to be processed accordingly, and for that it needs sufficient water, so the more salt you tend to take, the more you should drink by tendency. And your body tells you that: you get the thirstier the more salt you consume. Life can be so simple. Even without TV commercials telling you nonsense.

For almost 40 years no doctor cared for my heart rate - and told me to be careful with my salt! Not a reason to trust them blindly, I would say.

The man I owe to, is Dr. James DiNicolantonio, he finally seated me on the right horse. Maybe, in the future, he saved my life from a too early death, who knows. :salute:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Salt-Fix-Experts-Wrong-Eating/dp/0349417385/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OWA9Z0DIY8TI&keywords=the+salt+fix+by+dr+james+dinicolantonio&qid=1680027230&sprefix=dinicolantonio+salt%2Caps%2C82&sr=8-1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFZG7sJJgko

And this video gives you a quick answer, Markus, to why I ride this horse named "SALT" so extensively when I started to answer to your thoughts on drinking. If you opt for ketonegic diet or low-carb diet for yourself due to your diagnosis, you likely will lose salt, and more than you imagine. The doc explains it and tells why it matters additionally to what I said.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr7ddrdjQRQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f8VAK-K1A0

I close with this: do not waste your time when reading food's ingredients lists with the salt content. You must not. Sugar is your problem, bad versus good fat is your problem, allergens and inflammatory omega 6 unsaturated fatty acids are a problem (no, unsaturated fats are not automatically better than saturated fats, and they also are not all good only becasue they are unsaturated - the right balance is what makes the cure - or the poison...) . Salt is no problem. Never was. In a healthy person: never will be. Consumming even large quantities of salt is safe and healthy - if only you also drink enough then. ;) Salt has no systematic link to blood pressure, as often is claimed, that is a modern medicine myth that many doctors still fall for. Most people are salt-resisting, do not react at all with blood pressure changes to changing ammounts of salt consumed. And we know from history, that our ancestors in Europe and North america , due to the absence of refrigerators, consummed 80, 100, 120, 140 - in some areas up to 200 grams of salt - per day! :O:


Think of it: Our body may send us signals of thirst - not only when it needs fluids - but also when it NEEDS SALT! :shucks:

[Jimbuna]

Tis funny you should mention salt intake because I've never added salt to a meal (other than what is already in its contents) for about three decades and I can honestly state I don't miss it.

[Skybird]

Any processe food in your houseold, occaisonally? Fish and chips in the pub? Bread lover?


I promise you, your salt intake might be bigger than you think. You must not be worried by too much salt, however. Only by too little.

[Jimbuna]

Not too much processed nor bread but love a traditional meat roast, fish and chips and especially curry.

I undergo quarterly medical checks on blood sugar levels and blood pressure as well as weight etc. and the two Metformin tablets I take daily appear to be working thus far.

[Skybird]

Good for ya! ;) My father took Metformin, too - now he must not anymore, as I said, he is free of diabetes, it even cannot be shown that he ever had it.

Watch for your B12 status, Metoformin is known to suppress active calcium-dependent B12 resorption. Result: B12 deficiency. B12 should definitely be supplemented when taking metformin, preferably a complete B-complex preparation. Otherwise there is a risk of diabetic neurophathy, brain atrophy or retinophathy. Vitamin D supports cellular insulin metabolism and the effect of metformin.
Antioxidants such as ubiquinol Q10 and vitamin C reduce oxidative vascular stress.
Chromium and magnesium also have a metformin-supporting effect in this context.

BTW, i did not say peopel shoudl forcefeed themselves with salt. I only said that nobody must see the need to activeyl save salt, redcue it, or act aagiusnt his appetite for it. If you wasnt to eat salt and like itk, feel no regret and eat as mcuh as you want. And if you dont have appetite for it, then stop eating it. Simple. Just do nto actively try to reduce it below what you normally would like to have and woudl enjoy to have and feel good to have. Most people will settle then in a range around 6-9 grams per day, all in total.

It is important to keep good salt supply intact when you redcue carbohydrates or go for ketogenic iet, ebcasue int hat case metabölooc chnages accurd that drive salt sonsumaiton steeply upwards. This MUST be repalced, else you start suffering for side effects - and beleive me, these you will feel for sure.

DiNicolantonio has more details on it in the videos. Doc Nico is practitioner and research cardiologist and pharmacologist at the St. Lukes Hospital in Kansas City, and a publishing academic heavyweight on his matters. Several books, over 300 contributions in scienes magazines, senior editor at "Open Heart" (belongs to British Medical Journal). I have red several of his books.

I had checked this Metformin all out when redirecting my father. ;)

[mapuc]

Same here-Think this Metformin is the best or the only on the marked.

Markus

[mapuc]

Good for ya! ;) My father took Metformin, too - now he must not anymore, as I said, he is free of diabetes, it even cannot be shown that he ever had it.



Watch for your B12 status, Metoformin is known to suppress active calcium-dependent B12 resorption. Result: B12 deficiency. B12 should definitely be supplemented when taking metformin, preferably a complete B-complex preparation. Otherwise there is a risk of diabetic neurophathy, brain atrophy or retinophathy. Vitamin D supports cellular insulin metabolism and the effect of metformin.
Antioxidants such as ubiquinol Q10 and vitamin C reduce oxidative vascular stress.
Chromium and magnesium also have a metformin-supporting effect in this context.


I had checked this all out when redirecting my father. ;)

The sentence "Vitamin D supports cellular insulin metabolism and the effect of metformin."
Made me search for more info about this and found this page:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vitamin-d-may-diminish-risk-of-t2d

Markus

[Skybird]

Mapuc, there is a hot war being waged against any form of supplementation by industry lobbies and their affiliated medical supporters.When I read something that recomnends, like at the end of your article, a daily dose of 400 IU, and not more than 1200 at any cost, then I know that I am dealing with somebody who does not know the matter too well and just copies the propaganda he has been fed - or he is source of that propaganda. May it be Vitamine C, or D, or Iodine, or salt - the ether is filled with noise yellign at it and scaremongering people. We are not talkign about hard drugs with meter-long lists of side effects, risks and crossinteractions like metformin or statines or anythign - we are talking about NUTRIENTS. Components of food, in other words. Lets keep things in relation. Its better if one can tackle Diabetes 2 with food adjustements, than taking drugs. As long as this is possible, its the to-be-preferred option.



There is a cartel, and it tries to silence everbyody threatening the profit interests of the pharamceutical industry.

Also, this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqzaKro5Bt0&embeds_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.subsim.com%2F&feature=emb_imp_woyt&themeRefresh=1

[Skybird]

Same here-Think this Metformin is the best or the only on the marked.

Markus
What Metformin does is it increases the cell's insuline sensitivity again (which before got resistent by getting drowned in sugar and insuline). Diabetes is thus called insuline-resistrence. Sugar is in the blood, needs to get out of there. Insuline tries to press it into the cells, cells already have enough sugar from earlier orgies and say "no, thanks, we already had enough", insuline says "hell, no, sugar must get out of the blood, you MUST take it, you bloody damn cell" and presses even harder (more insuline production). Sugar goes into the cell, which is full and fat of sugar and becomes even more unsensitive (=resistent) to insuline, so the next insuline push needs to be even more extensive to press even more sugar into the cells. And there you are.

Wouldn't it be better to just eat in a smarter way so that you must not care for all that sugfar in the blood - becasue there is none, or less? NMeans ther eis less insuline procued. Means ther eis less sugar in the cells. Means there is less need to press sugar itno the cells. Means cells can relax and get more insuline sensitive again.

Metformin sounds like a cheap exit, making the cell less insuline resistent. Th sugar still is too much, the asting habits may still be unhealthy. And it comes at a cost: side effects. The most feared side effect of metformin is lactic acidosis, the lethality of which is still 50 percent today. Less dangeorus side effects are diarrhoea, flatulence, nausea, vomiting, sometimes brain fog, headache. The good reputation of Metformin is due to the fact that the side effect of other diabetic drugs are more severe.

Still, bets is if you could heal yourself with food and eating habits, not with artificial chemical drugs.


BTW, profound supply with Omega-3 also seems to have protective effects against insuline resistence.