Balloon games

[Skybird]

Now its two of them already.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64521570

Supersoft reaction, though this could be far more dangerous. Intel damage. Spreading of chemcial or biological agents. Even a warhead.

Maybe damage on the ground, if shooting them down? That is as good reason to accept all the above risks, I'm sure.

Weather balloon. Not one, but two. Yeah, sure.

[Otto Harkaman]

SIGINT sweep

...fitting a SIGINT (SIGnals INTelligence) system on a light balloon offers two advantages. Placed at altitude, electromagnetic sensors are less constrained by the effects of terrain- masking (trees, buildings and the roundness of the Earth). They thus gain in detection capabilities. A balloon also offers a very long endurance at altitude, at a lower cost than a fleet of aircraft or drones.

http://www.dmitryshulgin.com/2019/11/26/sigint-aerostat/

[Otto Harkaman]

The Pentagon’s next big weapon: Really big balloons
https://fortune.com/2022/07/05/the-pentagons-next-big-weapon-really-big-balloons/
(sorry paywall)

Why These Badass Balloons Are the Pentagon's New Secret Weapon
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a38005873/pentagon-balloons-strattolite/

History of military ballooning
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_military_ballooning#cite_note-26

[Platapus]

Well we had our "weather balloons" that were "off course" over the Soviet Union in the 50's, so I guess fair play. :D

[em2nought]

The Pentagon’s next big weapon: Really big balloons


Unfortunately our military misread that as needing really big "buffoons", and now they're all woke. :D

[Otto Harkaman]

^ :har:

would be funny if not so worrisome

[Catfish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY

Ahem

[Aktungbby]

I presume once the balloon reaches the Atlantic, the "safety to people on the ground debris-field" excuse for not shooting it down will be negated and we can practise how to destroy objects at 60,000 feet. I still recall the WWII Japanese Fu-Go high altitude firebomb balloon(9,000 made) that killed 6 people in Bly, Oregan in 1945. Clearly, there is a chink in our defensive aerial arrangements that needs to be immediately corrected. If nothing else, we should launch one of our own balloons and see if the Chinese "remain calm" as they are urging us to do...:x:hmph::nope::oops::dead: Methinks our Secretary of State is "Blinkin' first" in the global game of pre-WWIII poker...:hmmm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Japanese_fire_balloon_Moffett.jpg/375px-Japanese_fire_balloon_Moffett.jpg

[Rockstar]

That’s not a Chinese spy balloon. It’s Phineas Fogg trying to break his old record.

[Ocelot5]

Congratulations to the F-22 on its first confirmed air to air kill! :salute:

[Jimbuna]

Tis no longer a balloon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64524105

[Otto Harkaman]

https://youtu.be/KdYDqACxCec

Perhaps we will have another Ospery book soon "Modern Balloon Busters"

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/918Up13CUkL.jpg

[Aktungbby]

I presume once the balloon reaches the Atlantic, the "safety to people on the ground debris-field" excuse for not shooting it down will be negated and we can practise how to destroy objects at 60,000 feet.

Congratulations to the F-22 on its first confirmed air to air kill! :salute: Indeed! somebody reads my posts! Jeeze though! the debris field might have landed on a boatload of Haitian or Cuban refugees struggling to make it to the Florida Keys...I hope the USAF checked first...it wouldn't do to appear insensitive to the world's "huddled masses" striving for freedom and pissing off Florida governor Santos who'd already declared a national refugee 'state of emergency'! :O:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-military-shoots-chinese-spy-balloon-atlantic-ocean No doubt the F22 pilot's squadron mates will dub him "Luke"! Shooting anything at 60,000 feet ain't easy. :doh: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Frankluke.jpg Captain Eddie Rickenbacker said of Luke: “He was the most daring aviator and greatest fighter pilot of the entire war. His life is one of the brightest glories of our Air Service. He went on a rampage and shot down fourteen enemy aircraft, [COLOR="Red"]including ten balloons, in eight days. No other Ace: Britain’s Bishop from Canada, France’s Fonck or even the dreaded Richthofen had ever come close to that.”

[nikimcbee]

https://youtu.be/KdYDqACxCec

Perhaps we will have another Ospery book soon "Modern Balloon Busters"

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/918Up13CUkL.jpg


I vote this answer. Needs more Red Baron intro music though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoABC6B8oG0

[Skybird]

Shooting it down after the spying has been done and completed, and the last bits and bytes of info was broadcasted home.

Clever.

[Rockstar]

Congratulations to the F-22 on its first confirmed air to air kill! :salute:


Four more and he’s an ace

https://i.ibb.co/KWtR8Zz/087-C1-D14-92-DB-4-C98-A7-AF-1-FD8-E7563-E1-B.jpg

[August]

Looks to me like the payload detached from the remains of the balloon when it was hit. I wonder what remains of it, if anything.

[em2nought]

Shooting it down after the spying has been done and completed, and the last bits and bytes of info was broadcasted home.

Clever.

The payment required a complete transit. :03:

https://i.imgflip.com/4j1q45.jpg

[nikimcbee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU19hBgkfYk

[nikimcbee]

Looks to me like the payload detached from the remains of the balloon when it was hit. I wonder what remains of it, if anything.


https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.seekpng.com%2Fpng%2Fdetail%2F 77-772843_piglet-balloon-winnie-the-pooh.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=969e485970000229e1d99900362b038d7d6fd08025af56 f181b8de89db4f6581&ipo=images

[Skybird]

Four more and he’s an ace

If all ballons, he will be the Michelin-Man.

[nikimcbee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlnZTT_XiVE

[Rockstar]

Seems they made sure it was downwind of the U.S. before they shot it down.


3 Navy Warships, FBI Now Hunting for Wreckage of Chinese Spy Balloon off South Carolina

By: Sam LaGrone
February 4, 2023 5:28 PM • Updated: February 4, 2023 6:02 PM

https://news.usni.org/2023/02/04/3-navy-warships-fbi-now-hunting-for-wreckage-of-chinese-spy-balloon-off-south-carolina

A trio of Navy warships, service divers and the FBI are on the hunt for the wreckage of a high-altitude Chinese spy balloon that was shot down on Saturday by an Air Force F-22 Raptor off the coast of South Carolina, Defense Department officials told reporters Saturday.

“The balloon, which was being used by the PRC in an attempt to surveil strategic sites in the continental United States, was brought down above U.S. territorial waters,” Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin said in a Saturday statement. “On Wednesday, President [Joe] Biden gave his authorization to take down the surveillance balloon as soon as the mission could be accomplished without undue risk to American lives under the balloon’s path.”

The Raptor from the 149 Fighter Squadron, based at Langley Air Force Base, used a single AIM-9X Sidewinder, fired from 58,000 feet in the air, to shoot down the balloon that was operating at 62,000 feet, a senior military official told reporters on Saturday afternoon.

The remains of the surveillance balloon, about the size of three school buses, is spread over a seven-mile debris field in shallow water in the Atlantic, a senior military official told reporters.

Guided-missile destroyer USS Oscar Austin (DDG-79), guided-missile cruiser USS Philippine Sea (CG-58) and amphibious warship USS Carter Hall (LSD-50) are on station near the crash site. Coast Guard cutters and boats are also on the scene to assist in the recovery, a message left with a Coast Guard Atlantic Area spokesman was not immediately returned.

USS Carter Hall with the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) and Iwo Jima Amphibious Readiness Group (ARG) stages after offloading a Landing Craft Utility (LCU) in the early morning, beginning an amphibious assault during Composite Unit Training Exercise (COMPTUEX) at Camp Lejeune, N.C., on March 15, 2021. US Navy Photo

Navy divers are currently embarked aboard the warships off the coast, a Navy official confirmed to USNI News. FBI counter-intelligence agents are also part of the investigation, Pentagon officials said Saturday.

“We have… capable Navy divers to go down if needed. We’ll also have unmanned vessels that can go down to get the structure and lift it back up on the recovery ship,” the senior military official said.
“We’ll have the FBI on board as well, under the counterintelligence authorities for categorizing and assessing the platform itself.”

According to the same senior military official, a Navy salvage ship will be on station within the next two days.

The high-altitude surveillance craft had been operating over U.S. and Canadian airspace for at least the last week. It traveled over sensitive military sites, including the intercontinental missile silos at Malmstrom Air Force Base, Montana.

According to reporters following the path of the balloon, it entered the U.S. air defense identification zone Near Alaska on Jan. 28, crossed into Canada on Jan. 30 and crossed into the skies over Idaho on Jan. 31.

U.S. officials said they elected not to shoot down the balloon over the continental United States for two reasons – to prevent risk to people and property that would be in a potential debris field and to continue to gather intelligence from the craft while it continued to operate over the U.S.

“We assessed that it did not pose a threat at any time to civilian air traffic because of the altitude of the balloon. We also said that it did not pose a military or kinetic threat to U.S. people or property on the ground, although we were constantly updating both of those assessments and prepared to take it out if that threat profile changed,” the senior military official told reporters on Saturday.

Unlike low-earth orbit satellites, the near-space altitude in which the balloon operated was sovereign U.S.-controlled air space, USNI News understands. Chinese officials have said that the balloon had gone off course and had no hostile intent. A second Chinese balloon has been spotted over Latin America.

The balloon was low enough in the sky, that several people on shore captured images of the F-22 firing the anti-air missile to pop the balloon just off the coast of Myrtle Beach, S.C.

The fighters left the Virginia air base Saturday afternoon with the call signs Frank-1 and Frank-2, according to plane spotters on social media. The callsigns are believed to be a reference to World War I ACE Army Air Corps 1st Lt. Frank Luke. His nickname was the Arizona Balloon Buster, wrote reporter Marcus Weisgerber on Twitter.

[August]

Moar balloons coming!

[Rockstar]

https://i.ibb.co/vqvb7Tm/38708-AF5-2-A49-4286-B7-F7-64-F68-EF66-EF9.jpg

https://www.beyondnews.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2022/06/fat-russan-general.jpg

[em2nought]

My way in the future end of life plans for that lawn chair launch are going to run into a snag if that jet jockey is hankering for a second balloon kill. :hmmm:

I guess Everest somewhere below Green Boots it will be, only way I can afford that is if I become a Sherpa. :D

[Jimbuna]

I'm simply wondering what form of retaliation the Chinese will come up with.

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi7LVaHXnbw

[bstanko6]

Slow Joe didn’t want to upset his Chinese friends.

[mapuc]

Following useless facts was posted in todays Useless facts on FB.

I post it here instead of posting it in our Useless facts

In 1945, the American warship USS New York spotted a silvery sphere in the air, which they suspected to be an armed hot air balloon from Japan. They therefore tried to shoot the balloon down, but no shooter could hit it. A navigator then discovered that they had attempted to shoot down Venus.

Markus

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3kUa8uM4c



:up:

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRKH76uS6v8

[Aktungbby]

... Mr. Xi's citing "force majeure" to fly over Canada and the US instead of "right of innocent passage" when violating" US territorial waters in the Bering Strait in search of global mineral resources...is indicative of Bejing's double-standard when we transgress their South China Sea suzerainity in support of VietNam, Philippine and Japinese allies" interests...:hmmm: The unmitigated proof will be the response when we launch equally innocent balloons over China...and see how they respond to their own affront to their own territorial soveriegnty.... :yep::x The real question is: what could the PRC hope to learn that their ample spy-satellites haven't already shown them- truly a waste of time, money, and rare-earth resources in the buildup to the other half of WWIII. Mere provocation is the only logical surmise... :doh:

[Aktungbby]

It is worth noting: prior to the current balloon situation, "there had been incursions over the continental US. At least 3 of those were during Trump's presidency, while one occurred during Biden's term. They were of short duration, which may have factored in their non-detection. The Pentagon said over the weekend that China has a fleet of surveillance balloons spotted previously over Latin America, Europe and Asia...so be it; I'd like to see Frank01 and his F-22 get 4 more balloons if only to display more competence than three administrations as to aerial security; and a check to Sino-disdain for international rules on 'force majeure'.(''an irresponsible act and clear violation of US sovereignty and international law'). The Chinese objection to our 'overraction' is less than strident as Xi emphasizes a wish to restore Secretary Blinken's now cancelled visit. Some Sino scholars have acknowledged that the shootdown 'demonstrated America's distrust of China rather than an attempt by China to provoke or challenge Washington; the more so as Biden is under pressure to show toughness in dealing with China.' Recovery of the balloon's payload will clarify matters considerably-but one thing is clear, it wasn't a weather balloon...so the Chinese are, at least, liars who don't apologize for accidental airspace intrusions at best. :hmmm: Footnote to history: this was the first US target kill from such a high altitude(approx 58,000 ft).:Kaleun_Salute:

[Platapus]

I wonder how much this cost?


How much did it cost the Chinese to send that balloon and payload?


How much did it cost the USA to track and shoot that balloon down?




Some sources state that a single AIM-9 missile is $200,000 to $300,000 each. Yikes!

[Otto Harkaman]

Yep that was the chance to test a blimp mounted rail gun

[em2nought]

Would have been a whole lot cheaper to get Feinstein's driver to sneak into Biden's garage. :D

[Ostfriese]

Yep that was the chance to test a blimp mounted rail gun


I'd love to see how they'd transport the necessary power plant.:D

[Otto Harkaman]

I'd love to see how they'd transport the necessary power plant.:D


The blimp itself would be a Nikola Tesla modified Van de Gaaff generator, generating electrostatic energy as it moved through the atmosphere. :stare:

[August]

I'd love to see how they'd transport the necessary power plant.:D




No need for fancy lasers I'd say. Just mount a big magnifying glass on that blimp and then focus the suns rays on the balloons skin. Should make a nice hole in it in short order without need of expensive missiles or other fancy gadgetry.

[ET2SN]

Many still seem to be confused about this whole Balloon thing. :o

Here's a video which mostly explains what's going on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvcohzJvviQ


:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Buddahaid]

I wonder how much this cost?


How much did it cost the Chinese to send that balloon and payload?


How much did it cost the USA to track and shoot that balloon down?




Some sources state that a single AIM-9 missile is $200,000 to $300,000 each. Yikes!

Well, the balloon didn't sneak in and it would be tracked regardless by people already employed to do that while at work. Photo recon? Who cares! You can go on Google Earth and see the same thing. Pictures of silo covers? Why not! What's the point of nuclear deterrents if your enemies can't see they exist?

[Armistead]

When it flew over the mountains here in NC I know several country folks were taking pot shots with their high powered rifles at it. I was waiting myself for a shot if it come over my farm, but no luck

[Aktungbby]

When it flew over the mountains here in NC I know several country folks were taking pot shots with their high powered rifles at it. I was waiting myself for a shot if it come over my farm, but no luck At 60,000 feet! no wonder the South lost:doh::hmmm: but I'd B atakin' a pot at it myself
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=815&pictureid=12622:O:Now i understand
China is 'requesting its balloon back" The Chinese Foreign Ministry has requested that President Joe Biden’s administration return debris from the air balloon that the US military shot down off America’s east coast on Saturday, saying the aircraft “belongs to China.” Speaking at a press briefing on Tuesday, ministry spokeswoman Mao Ning was asked whether Beijing had asked for the balloon debris to be returned. “The airship does not belong to the US,” she said. “It belongs to China.”

Ning’s comments came three days after a US fighter jet shot down the balloon – alleged by American officials to be a spying aircraft – off the coast of South Carolina. The Pentagon claimed to have detected the balloon on Wednesday. Biden faced fierce criticism for allowing the balloon to cross the continent, passing over a nuclear missile site and other sensitive military assets, before bringing it down. The balloon was a civilian meteorological research airship that entered US airspace inadvertently after being blown off course, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said on Friday. Ning said some US politicians and media outlets “hyped” the incident to “attack and smear China.” ((always that pissy 'Century of shame' chip-on-the-shoulder 'tude)
) She declined to provide any more details about the airship on Tuesday. “The Chinese side has given information about the unmanned airship on several occasions,” Ning said. “I don’t have anything to add at the moment.” She added that the US government failed to respond in a “calm and professional manner,” instead overreacting to an incident that posed no security threat and didn’t endanger any Americans.

US Senator Steve Daines, a Montana Republican, speculated that Chinese officials sent the balloon across North America to probe Washington’s response. “This was really more of a trial balloon by the Chinese,” Daines told Fox News on Monday. He added that Biden was “indecisive,” projecting weakness. “It was exactly what the Chinese wanted to see happen.” The real question is: what could the PRC hope to learn that their ample spy-satellites haven't already shown them- truly a waste of time, money, and rare-earth resources in the buildup to the other half of WWIII. Mere provocation is the only logical surmise...

[August]

When it flew over the mountains here in NC I know several country folks were taking pot shots with their high powered rifles at it. I was waiting myself for a shot if it come over my farm, but no luck


Just FYI a .30-06 round fired straight up will only get to about 10,000 feet before it starts back down. At which point you'll have about a minute to clear the impact zone.

[Rockstar]

https://i.imgur.com/FoAUWFf.jpg

[em2nought]

https://i.imgur.com/FoAUWFf.jpg

Meanwhile somewhere on the Outer Banks. :D
https://i0.wp.com/www.nowverybad.com/wp-content/uploads/the_gods_must_be_crazy_still3.jpg?resize=1024%2C57 6&ssl=1

[Rockstar]

:har: The gods must be crazy!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MAZXtLJZNL0/TLoCxfcbgNI/AAAAAAAAAK4/GXeR6ZGmOEw/s1600/godsmustbecrazy.jpg

[Catfish]

https://i.imgur.com/FoAUWFf.jpg
:haha:

b.t.w. seems it was not the first time, there were alrady three balloons in the last years

[August]

:haha:

b.t.w. seems it was not the first time, there were alrady three balloons in the last years




So the Administration now claims. Not a shred of proof has been offered about that, and even if it were true, the other balloons ,reportedly, only briefly flew over parts of Texas and Hawaii. Not at all in the same league as a grand tour across the entirety of the continental US in full view of millions.

[Catfish]

^ ?

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/06/1154767882/this-wasnt-the-first-chinese-balloon-over-the-u-s-why-were-the-others-ignored
"However, the U.S. was not aware of the Chinese incursions at the time, [...]"
Which is of course bull. I take it they were well aware but chose not to make it public. It pays to officially overlook such incursions while internally knowing about it, you can gather quite some intelligence that way. Why they made it public now? Did they think this time it was going too far? No idea.

re no sightings, I guess no one "sees" a balloon at that altitude.

[August]

^ ?

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/06/1154767882/this-wasnt-the-first-chinese-balloon-over-the-u-s-why-were-the-others-ignored

Which is of course bull. I take it they were well aware but chose not to make it public. It pays to officially overlook such incursions while internally knowing about it, you can gather quite some intelligence that way. Why they made it public now? Did they think this time it was going too far? No idea.

re no sightings, I guess no one "sees" a balloon at that altitude.

They are visible. Plenty of people saw this latest one, that's why it became public.

Now I could see a short overflight of one of the Hawaiian islands or Guam or over Florida in the middle of a single night could easily be missed, but given daylight and flying over inhabited areas these balloons they would be seen and reported. If the military or intelligence agencies knew about the previous flights and deliberately failed to inform the President or Administration that would border upon treason imo.

[Jimbuna]

Chinese balloon capable of gathering intelligence - US official

A suspected Chinese surveillance balloon that the US shot down this week was able to collect communications signals, a US official has said.

It was equipped with multiple antennas capable of "intelligence collection operations", a senior State Department official said in a background briefing.

The US believes the balloon is part of a wider fleet of surveillance balloons that has spanned five continents.

China has denied the balloon was used for spying purposes.

It has said the balloon was a weather device blown astray.

Its appearance in US airspace has provoked a diplomatic crisis and led US Secretary of State Antony Blinken to cancel a trip to China - the first such high level US-China meeting there in years. The US military used a fighter jet to shoot the balloon down over the Atlantic Ocean over the weekend.

China has said the decision to shoot down the balloon was "irresponsible" and did not "create a proper atmosphere for dialogue" between the two countries.

The US Navy is still recovering debris from the balloon in the Atlantic Ocean.

High resolution images revealed the balloon - which was about 200 ft (60 metres) tall - had large solar panels capable of operating "multiple active intelligence collection sensors" as well as antennas that were able to collect and geo-locate communications, the senior State Department official said on Thursday.

"We know [China] used these balloons for surveillance," the official said.

"The high-altitude balloons' equipment was clearly for intelligence surveillance and inconsistent with the equipment on-board weather balloons."

The balloon manufacturer also had a direct relationship with China's military and is an approved state military vendor, the official said

The US is considering taking action against groups linked to the Chinese government that were involved in the balloon's flight, they added.

US intelligence, military and foreign policy officials are briefing members of Congress on Thursday about the balloon.

At a Wednesday news conference, Defence Department spokesman Brigadier General Pat Ryder confirmed that the US believed similar balloons had operated over North and South America, South East Asia, East Asia and Europe.

The US believes the balloons have operated over US territory on at least four occasions, a separate official said earlier this week.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64587228

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/CMRrWZZQ/329871939-3451797911809783-5329724052065349009-n.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QVrq7dJQ)

[Aktungbby]

The US is considering taking action against groups linked to the Chinese government that were involved in the balloon's flight, they added. If nothing else, we should launch one of our own balloons and see if the Chinese "remain calm" as they are urging us to do... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Genetrix We need to revamp Operation Genetrix and launch scads of balloons on the 'prevailing Westerlies' over China (from Guam or Japan?)...instructing them to "remain calm" as they have pompously done to US..:x Project Genetrix, also known as WS-119L, was a United States Air Force program designed to launch General Mills manufactured surveillance balloons over China, Eastern Europe, and the Soviet Union to take aerial photographs and collect intelligence. The Genetrix balloons reached altitudes of 50,000–100,000 feet (15–30 km), well above any contemporary fighter plane. Between 10 January and 6 February 1956, a total of 516 high-altitude vehicles were launched from the five different launch sites Gardermoen, Norway; Evanton, Scotland; Oberpfaffenhofen and Giebelstadt, West Germany; and Incirlik, Turkey; 54 were recovered and only 31 provided usable photographs. Numerous balloons were shot down or blown off course, and the flights led to many diplomatic protests from the target countries. :doh: MiG fighter pilots learned that at sunrise the balloons had dipped into shooting range because the balloons floated to a lower altitude. The lifting gas cooled at night and became denser, reducing lift, so the balloons descended to lower altitudes where the air was denser.Top-secret high-altitude balloon programs such as Moby Dick, Moby Dick High and 119L may account for many of the UFO sightings starting around the mid-20th century. The U-2 spy plane was later developed to replace the Genetrix balloons. The Soviets recovered many of these balloons and their temperature-resistant and radiation-hardened film would later be used in the Luna 3 probe to capture the first images of the far side of the Moon.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/GenetrixBalloonLaunch.jpgConsidering that Chinese 'junior pilots' are currently harassing our recon aircraft flying well outside Chinese territorial waters in international waters often flying within feet using jet turbulance to intimidate our aircrews, this would be an inexpensive retaliation and expose the Chinese 'double standard for "remaining calm" :hmmm: And, it'd be fun to see what they've got of their new generation aircraft that can shoot down a balloon above 62,000 ft! That would be useful intelligence indeed! :arrgh!:

[Buddahaid]

https://i.postimg.cc/CMRrWZZQ/329871939-3451797911809783-5329724052065349009-n.jpg (https://postimg.cc/QVrq7dJQ)

I give... :haha:

[Jimbuna]

US shoots down unknown object 'the size of a small car' after it entered airspace near Alaska

The object, shot down on the order of President Joe Biden, was flying at a high altitude of about 40,000ft and was the size of a small car, the White House said.

It posed a "reasonable threat" to the safety of civilian flights, said John Kirby, the White House National Security Council spokesman.

It was unclear where the object came from.

"We don't know who owns this object," said Mr Kirby.

US officials said: "Out of an abundance of caution and at the recommendation of the Pentagon, President Biden ordered the military to down the object over water."

An F-22 aircraft took down the object using a Sidewinder missile over territorial waters - now frozen.

There was no indication the object was manned, nor did the Pentagon know what speed it was travelling at.

The incident happened just days after the US downed a Chinese balloon believed to be a spy aircraft.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/us-shoots-down-unknown-object-the-size-of-a-small-car-after-it-entered-airspace-near-alaska/ar-AA17lvnb?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=f9361271d03b49d087e288d22644cd13

[Catfish]

US shoots down unknown object 'the size of a small car' after it entered airspace near Alaska
It was unclear where the object came from.
"We don't know who owns this object," said Mr Kirby.
"We do not know what it is? Shoot it down and ask questions later."
There went your chance of becoming a member of the 22 planet's federation from Alpha Centauri.

[Skybird]

"Object"...? What stupid description is this?



Wings? Rotary? Balloon? Fas movi ng? Slowly hiovering? Travelling with the winds?



Boris Becker's certain single serve from Wimbledon that went amiss long time ago?

[Skybird]

NZZ:


https://img.nzz.ch/2023/02/09/066cf5bf-1060-4fd6-8af9-fe619c00fa31.jpeg?width=760&height=427&fit=bounds&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1920,1080,x0,y0

[Otto Harkaman]

I am all for shooting anything coming from outer space

https://youtu.be/UXUFHimIEP4

[Catfish]

https://i.imgur.com/27DQV0Cl.jpg

[Jimbuna]

:haha:

[Skybird]

And another one.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64614098

99 ballons minus 3 means 96 more to come. :D

[mapuc]

I think we are dealing with copycats.

Someone are making these object.

Markus

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/2-UQ0-8ktAM

[Catfish]

It's .. beautiful :haha: :har:

[Rockstar]

https://i.imgur.com/27qwFEx.jpg


The lyrics of the original German version tell a story: 99 balloons are mistaken for UFOs, causing a general to send pilots to investigate. Finding nothing but balloons, the pilots put on a large show of fire power. The display of force worries the nations along the borders and the war ministers on each side encourage conflict to grab power for themselves. In the end, a cataclysmic war results from the otherwise harmless flight of balloons and causes devastation on all sides without a victor, as indicated in the denouement of the song: "99 Jahre Krieg ließen keinen Platz für Sieger," which means "99 years of war left no room for victors." The anti-war song finishes with the singer walking through the devastated ruins of the world and finding a single balloon. The description of what happens in the final line of the piece is the same in German and English: "Denk' an dich und lass' ihn fliegen," or "I think of you and let it go.”

[les green01]

I think we are dealing with copycats.

Someone are making these object.

Markus

don't know Markus i don't think balloons be too cheap

[Armistead]

Just FYI a .30-06 round fired straight up will only get to about 10,000 feet before it starts back down. At which point you'll have about a minute to clear the impact zone. Well, I can get 6000 ft above sea level too if I climb a lil.

[August]

Well, I can get 6000 ft above sea level too if I climb a lil.


:hmmm: Hmmm.



I wonder if firing the round from the more rarefied atmosphere found at that height would produce a benefit. Maybe instead of going up 16k the round goes up to 20kft.

[Aktungbby]

https://www.syracuse.com/resizer/24fB-JUxIITxkY-ANxXAfTfcku8=/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal/public/ZZKQZQIJ6ND7JBEXCFW6TAGF3A.jpg

[Rockstar]

It's .. beautiful :haha: :har:

And down below is Armistead and August gauging the distance wondering what it would take to pop a balloon.

[Rockstar]

February 4th Chinese spy craft shot down. Friday an ‘object’ was shot down over Alaska and a RADAR anomaly was searched for but not found near California. Saturday an ‘object’ was shot down over the Yukon Territory. Today another object was shot down over Lake Huron.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot over? Balloon’s have been observed and tracked over this continent for decades, now suddenly they are perceived as threats that to be shot down. Makes me wonder why the Pentagon is working overtime to show how important is.

Oh, that’s right the Biden administration is preparing to ask Congress for the largest Pentagon budget in history, at the same time the debt ceiling raises the specter of deep cuts to the military’s funding plans.

[Armistead]

And down below is Armistead and August gauging the distance wondering what it would take to pop a balloon.

I got my trusty 50 cal black powdered rifle ready and thought maybe 500 grains would do the trick.

[les green01]

I got my trusty 50 cal black powdered rifle ready and thought maybe 500 grains would do the trick.

just to think i use to have alot of fun poping them with a pellet rifle but i can throw in a flintlock and walker

[Jimbuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gia6bJYGWc

[Rockstar]

I was listening to some journalists actually ask some really good questions of the Pentagon representative. Such as have these objects been identified before missiles are fired at them? And the pentagon’s official’s response? Ummm, well, no.

[August]

https://i.imgur.com/cySPsoH.jpg

[Aktungbby]

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/tucson.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/99/59961c46-abc7-11ed-ad9f-6b5d78626cf4/63ea799c96df4.image.jpg?crop=1675%2C942%2C0%2C147&resize=1120%2C630&order=crop%2Cresize Bearing in mind that an AIM-9 Sidewinderhttps://www.navair.navy.mil/sites/g/files/jejdrs536/files/styles/crop_16_9/public/AIM-9X%2071.jpg?itok=Az2IWJ9X costs approx: $604,000 + tax and licen$e :oops: https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/illinois-groups-balloon-missing-in-action-over-alaska-fueling-speculation-after-us-shot-down-object/3075421/ The Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade, a group of hobbyists launching and tracking pico balloons, said its "Pico Balloon K9YO" last reported in the early morning hours of Feb. 11, or the afternoon hours of Feb. 10 in local time, near Hagemeister Island, a remote and uninhabited island off the southwest coast in Alaska.
Pico ballooning, according to the brigade, is part of "Amateur Radio" also known as "ham radio" or just "hams."
"We’re licensed by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) allowing us to communicate to other Hams throughout the world," their website states. "Pico meaning small, we send a small transmitter, with GPS tracking and antenna on a balloon filled with Hydrogen, rising to 47,000 feet, and travelling with the speed of the Jetstream. As we travel, our GPS is able to locate our current location, and other information is gathered depending on what chips we have on our transmitter while using other programs to gather other inflight information." And the one shot down over Lake Huron took two missiles...and one was shot down over Canada; :hmmm: total: 5 AIM-9 missiles in all =$3,020,000, not incl. tax and licen$e thus far https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/13/politics/pentagon-memo-canada-small-balloon/index.html Canadian retired Maj. Gen. Scott Clancy, former director of operations at NORAD and former deputy commander of the Alaskan NORAD Region, said on Monday he does not believe China is behind the unidentified objects that have been shot down in recent days. He explained that it could be a “confluence of a distinctive activity by our adversaries to test the systems.”
“It smells to me, as the guy who was directed to conduct operations to defend North America, I’d be very suspicious,” Clancy said on “CNN This Morning.” “And I’d be on high alert to make sure that all of our adversaries are being countered.”
Assistant Secretary of Defense for Homeland Defense and Hemispheric Affairs, Melissa Dalton told reporters on Sunday they were taken down out of an “abundance of caution.”
Dalton said that high-altitude objects can be used by a range of companies, countries, and research organizations for “purposes that are not nefarious, including legitimate research.” BOTTOM LINE: the current balloon mania has matriculated into an OK Corral kneejerk response frenzy....

[Catfish]

Wouldn't an MG round have been enough for a balloon.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/LXQRPJrr/330915759-1367100977424422-2265679910502626175-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Aktungbby]

Editorial in today's WSJ: https://images.wsj.net/im-727394/?width=860&size=1.5 https://www.wsj.com/articles/did-my-1967-experiment-inspire-chinas-spy-balloon-physics-doctorate-espionage-nasa-ufo-pacific-ocean-research-happe-hapi-e9eeccef China accused the U.S. on Monday of having sent more than 10 large balloons into its airspace over the past few years. I might have been the first to do so—but it was long ago, and if I’m guilty, it was inadvertent.

Like China’s balloon that sailed over the U.S. this year, mine was about 200 feet tall and flew at 65,000 feet. Mine was launched in 1967 and bore the name “HAPPE” on the container holding the craft’s data-collection instruments, known as its science package. Is it a coincidence that, according to the Journal, China named its balloon program, begun in the late 1960s or ’70s, the HAPI project?Our name was an acronym for High Altitude Particle Physics Experiment. The program, developed at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and funded by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, was the brainchild of Nobel laureate Luis Alvarez, an American physicist. I joined the project as a graduate student. Happe’s goal was to conduct experiments using high-altitude cosmic rays, specifically with high-energy protons that don’t penetrate the Earth’s atmosphere.

To get the enormous Happe package above 95% of the proton-stopping atmosphere would require a large (300 feet tall) helium-filled balloon. Such balloons are essentially impossible to steer. They travel in whatever direction the high winds carry them. These winds are seasonal, and when we launched a prototype, Happe-0, from Palestine, Texas, we did so during one of the two brief periods every year called turnaround. That’s when the wind reverses direction and is temporarily low velocity, making a balloon less likely to be blown into an urban area. To track the balloon’s location, we used a World War II system called long-range navigation, or Loran, aboard the package. Loran was decommissioned in 2010 after GPS became available. Much of rural Texas was approved for safe landing by state and national regulators. But if our balloon was about to wander out of the safe region, we sent a radio signal that fired two on-board explosive knives known as squibs. One squib would release the science package and the other would rip the balloon. The package would descend to Earth on a parachute while the severed balloon slowly fluttered down like an enormous autumn leaf. In 1947, a similar balloon from a classified experiment called Project Mogul crashed near Roswell, N.M., and ignited the flying-saucer frenzy.

The future Happe-1 project involved complex technologies and would yield no data for my doctorate for almost a decade. I was impatient so I invented a smaller experiment I called Happe-½. We launched Happe-½, with a balloon only 200 feet tall, from the Chico, Calif., airport in 1967. Rather than wait for a turnaround, we let the stratospheric winds carry the package west above the coastal mountains and safely (we thought) out over the Pacific.

We planned to let the balloon’s package gather data until it was too far away to send back signals. Then we would fire the squibs and bring the package and balloon down to the ocean. We would use a plane to spot the floating package and a boat to recover it—as well as the balloon, if we could find it.

To pick up instrument signals as the balloon passed overhead, I set up a telemetry station on Cahto Peak, in the California coastal mountains. The package took only a few hours to pass over my telemetry site, and since it did so at night, although I received its nocturnal beeps, I never spotted it visually. Local residents didn’t believe that my telemetry station was part of a cosmic-ray project. They knew NASA had sponsored the experiment and suspected we were studying flying saucers.

When the balloon was over the ocean and out of range of my station, the boat crew sent signals to fire the squibs. What happened next, we don’t know. We never found the balloon, parachute or science package. We guessed that the parachute failed to open and that my apparatus slammed into the ocean at more than 100 miles an hour. My Ph.D. went poof. At the time, it didn’t occur to me that the squibs could have failed altogether and that the balloon might have continued westward to the Far East.

I switched to a less-risky project and earned my doctorate in 1969. Did my balloon make it to China? Anything that large could smother humans or animals when it eventually comes down. If the Chinese had tried to shoot it down, they would have discovered that in the 1960s doing so wasn’t easy. A balloon is a big target but the helium pressure inside is very low, so shooting a hole in the side doesn’t quickly bring it down. Would China have protested to the U.S.? The Soviet Union didn’t protest the U-2s over their country, flying at a similar 65,000-foot altitude, until they shot down Francis Gary Powers in 1960.

Stratospheric balloons ultimately succumb to the stress of withstanding heat during the day turning to cold at night, so the Happe-½ apparatus could have descended and been recovered in China with no shooting. Chinese scientists might then have discovered that it was an innocuous science project. They also would have learned that flying across the Pacific was possible, something even I didn’t know at the time. To fly a balloon east, one needed only to wait for the high-altitude wind turnaround, or possibly use a different latitude.

Perhaps the Happe program also alerted China to the espionage potential of stratospheric balloons. (In World War II Japan flew lower-altitude balloons carrying incendiary devices timed to fall over the U.S.)my post #8 above Or maybe Happe initially intrigued China with its science potential. By the 1980s, Chinese scientists were launching their own stratospheric balloons over the Pacific. They named their projects HAPI—written in Mandarin, of course, not English. Was it called that for the joy it brought, as some have suggested? I now think it might have been an homage to Happe. Mr. Muller served as a Jason National Security adviser for 34 years. He is a professor of physics emeritus at the University of California, Berkeley. His books include “Physics for Future Presidents” and “Energy for Future Presidents.” Like I said, we do it to them and they do it to us ??!:oops: Throw in the 3 ROC U-2 spy planes shot down in the sixties over Maoist China, undoubtedly on CIA orders -just used in Catfish's who/what/where puzzle-and we are bad guys in our own right with a very myopic sense of precedent... Frankly I'm at 49%-51% consensus toward China's point of view. We should simply shoot down whatever we wish in or own airspace and do it quietly to avoid uneccesary friction in the current buildup to WW III.:yep:

[Commander Wallace]

https://i.postimg.cc/LXQRPJrr/330915759-1367100977424422-2265679910502626175-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)


:haha::haha: That's too funny. Hysterical.


Editorial in today's WSJ: Like I said, we do it to them and they do it to us ??!:oops: Throw in the 3 ROC U-2 spy planes shot down in the sixties over Maoist China, undoubtedly on CIA orders -just used in Catfish's who/what/where puzzle-and we are bad guys in our own right with a very myopic sense of precedent... Frankly I'm at 49%-51% consensus toward China's point of view. We should simply shoot down whatever we wish in or own airspace and do it quietly to avoid uneccesary friction in the current buildup to WW III.:yep:

I have serious doubts that the U.S had balloons in China. I would think the U.S has more sophisticated methods for surveillance than balloons. I do agree with just shooting them down. I think the bigger question is, where did these balloons come from ? Were they launched by submarines ?

[Aktungbby]

I have serious doubts that the U.S had balloons in China. I would think the U.S has more sophisticated methods for surveillance than balloons. I do agree with just shooting them down. I think the bigger question is, where did these balloons come from ? Were they launched by submarines ?It does have sophisticated methods: Our USINT tech has spotted them, incl. this one, launching from Hainan. Given the powerful "atmospheric river" winds lately contributing to heavy weather, the Chinese at least have 'plausible deniability' for their alleged 'force majeure'. As in my post above, we launched approx 510 General Mills balloons over Communist nations in 1956. When challenged, John Foster Dulles "lied thru his teeth" that the balloons were not 'necessarily military related' just as the Chinese are doing 70 odd years later!!? As before, we should simply shoot them down quietly w/o all the press related fanfare. Their sattelites already get the job done as do ours. The value added of helium-Intel gathering is minimal at best. EDIT: This just in; another large white balloon has been spotted 525 miles NE of Hawaii at 40,000 feet. Aircraft have been dispatch to monitor.

[Commander Wallace]

It does have sophisticated methods: Our USINT tech has spotted them, incl. this one, launching from Hainan. Given the powerful "atmospheric river" winds lately contributing to heavy weather, the Chinese at least have 'plausible deniability' for their alleged 'force majeure'. As in my post above, we launched approx 510 General Mills balloons over Communist nations in 1956. When challenged, John Foster Dulles "lied thru his teeth" that the balloons were not 'necessarily military related' just as the Chinese are doing 70 odd years later!!? As before, we should simply shoot them down quietly w/o all the press related fanfare. Their sattelites already get the job done as do ours. The value added of helium-Intel gathering is minimal at best.


I was completely unaware of our using balloons in this fashion. I agree the balloons should be shot down, should we encounter anymore. That's after gleening any intelligence we can from them.

[Rockstar]

While flying over the Daytona 500 in Florida.

https://i.ibb.co/LDKkXcJ/861-A4-E9-C-80-BD-4-BD6-8-D07-AA3-F470-C0544.jpg

[Catfish]

^ you're robbing my ideas :haha: :up:

[Platapus]

Wouldn't an MG round have been enough for a balloon.


Only if you would be able to puncture the top of the envelope. These are low pressure envelopes so it would not pop like an elastic balloon.


The bad news is that with such a leak, it would be very difficult to predict where it will land/crash.


You can imagine the number of lawyers in the US just waiting for such a thing.

[August]

A Dirigible should be able to reach that altitude. All it would need is a magnifying glass strapped to it. Pop goes the weasel.

[Jimbuna]

https://i.postimg.cc/761HCYfp/330965658-521087073439215-2100569372190346548-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Aktungbby]

:haha::har:... Considering Sailor Steve once cautioned me for using the word 'scheissen' in a post to circumvent :subsim:'s auto-profanty filter...holy ****!<( JEEZE! See, it still works!):yeah:

[Skybird]

Surprise - not as harmless as feared: how can this be...? Great guesswork as to why the Chinese did this. Everybody is wondering. :O:



https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/china-spy-balloon-collected-intelligence-us-military-bases-rcna77155

[Aktungbby]

/\ There's clearly a chink in our national air defenses!:shucks:

[Jimbuna]

Not surprised in the least.