Alec Baldwin formally charged with Manslaughter in 'Rust’ shooting of Halyna Hutchins

[Commander Wallace]

Alec Baldwin will be criminally charged for his part in the " Rust " movie scene where Baldwin fatally shot cinematographer Halyna Hutchins.

Quote: New Mexico prosecutors brought the same charge against the movie’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, after a real bullet was fired from a prop gun by Baldwin on the movie set in October 2021.

Assistant director David Halls, who handed the loaded gun to the actor, accepted a misdemeanor charge in a plea deal. “If any one of these three people — Alec Baldwin, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, or David Halls — had done their job, Halyna Hutchins would be alive today. It’s that simple,” special prosecutor Andrea Reeb said.

Baldwin and Gutierrez-Reed will both be charged “in the alternative,” meaning the jury will decide which of the two charges — involuntary manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter in the commission of a lawful act — they are or are not guilty of. The first charge carries a maximum sentence of 18 months, but because the second charge includes a firearm enhancement, both Baldwin and Gutierrez-Reed would face a mandatory five year sentence if convicted.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/19/alec-baldwin-charged-in-fatal-rust-shooting-of-halyna-hutchins/


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alec-baldwin-charged-manslaughter-fatal-shooting-set-rust-d-says-rcna7189

Baldwin has said the gun fired by itself. Anyone who knows guns knows this is an impossibility. The only way that could happen is if a round was already chambered in the breech and the guns hammer was struck, from a fall or blow. This would in turn strike the firing pin, firing a round.

Secondly, what was live ammunition doing on a movie set ? This killing sounds like a cover-up for an intentional murder.

Thirdly, anyone who knows and understand guns automatically assumes the gun is loaded and doesn't point it at anyone. That being said, guns with blanks are pointed at people in Hollywood movies without deadly consequences all the time.

[August]

And I understand that he wasn't supposed to even be pointing it at the victim in the first place. She wasn't an actor rehearsing a scene with him. He was horsing around I think.

[Skybird]

Not even the husband of the killed woman says that it was anything different than an accident. I assume the weapon master, who is also charged, mistook the rounds when preparing the weapon for the next scene. That soaunds like the most plausible hypothesis to me so far.



Or a third person replaced the rounds after that preparation, then it would be either murder, or manslaughter due to somebody making a "joke" by wanting to scare them, assuming the bullet would go into a wall or tree. But i dont think so.


I think I read that the weapons master had a problem with her work license or the police or an according job before. But that was back when the incident happened, so is some time agao now, and so I dont remember exactly anymore.


And that much i care not anyway.

[Buddahaid]

Don't forget the 480 fatal shooting accidents that happen every year in the US. This is just one involving a disliked personality.

[Commander Wallace]

Don't forget the 480 fatal shooting accidents that happen every year in the US. This is just one involving a disliked personality.


I think you may have it backwards. Baldwin wasn't a disliked personality until he murdered someone and then made up a story and lie to cover up his stupidity.

[Buddahaid]

I think you may have it backwards. Baldwin wasn't a disliked personality until he murdered someone and then made up a story and lie to cover up his stupidity.

Perhaps but he also mocked Trump and faced the ire of MAGA devotees.

[Commander Wallace]

Perhaps but he also mocked Trump and faced the ire of MAGA devotees.


That may be true as well. This incident that Baldwin has just been charged with has just added fuel to the fire.

[August]

Perhaps but he also mocked Trump and faced the ire of MAGA devotees.


He's not hated like Vietnam veterans hate Jane Fonda.

[Sean C]

Baldwin has said the gun fired by itself. Anyone who knows guns knows this is an impossibility. The only way that could happen is if a round was already chambered in the breech and the guns hammer was struck, from a fall or blow. This would in turn strike the firing pin, firing a round.

That's generally true for real guns. But the quote says "a real bullet was fired from a prop gun". Maybe the "prop" functioned like a real gun, maybe it didn't. What I find a little surprising is that a prop would be able to fire a real bullet without exploding itself.

And I understand that he wasn't supposed to even be pointing it at the victim in the first place. She wasn't an actor rehearsing a scene with him. He was horsing around I think.

I read earlier that he was pointing the gun "at the camera" as he practiced cross-drawing. I suppose the deceased was standing very near to the camera.

[Commander Wallace]

That's generally true for real guns. But the quote says "a real bullet was fired from a prop gun". Maybe the "prop" functioned like a real gun, maybe it didn't. What I find a little surprising is that a prop would be able to fire a real bullet without exploding itself.

I read earlier that he was pointing the gun "at the camera" as he practiced cross-drawing. I suppose the deceased was standing very near to the camera.

What you have said makes sense. To be completely fair, I wasn't there and have no idea what really happened. I do know Baldwin's account of the gun firing by itself is impossible.

Further, what was real ammunition doing on the set of a movie ? Certainly the prop people check that, repeating those checks over and over. I would assume people will be trying to answer that in the coming months.

Safety certainly wasn't a concern on this movie set or perhaps it was just incompetence. Never, ever assume anything, especially a firearm, is safe without checking. I would have thought they would know that without being told. Complacency and or assumptions are something that cause tragedies and for lives to be lost.

[Buddahaid]

He's not hated like Vietnam veterans hate Jane Fonda.

Well that clears that up. :)

[nikimcbee]

He's not hated like Vietnam veterans hate Jane Fonda.


You mean Hanoi Jane.

[Eichhörnchen]

My feelings about it: I feel deeply sorry for Alec Baldwin (and that is not meant to be dismissive of the deceased in any way)

[Jimbuna]

IMHO it was a tragic accident but if negligence is proven then the person at fault will obviously be answerable.

[MaDef]

IMHO it was a tragic accident but if negligence is proven then the person at fault will obviously be answerable.

I handle firearms on a daily basis, this was no accident, it was an incident, and it was negligent on the part of both the onsite armorer and Baldwin.

[Dowly]

BTW, here's a playlist of interrogations of various people (including Baldwin) involved in the accident:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-9pu1SD4_ldTjyZ8N1kox2rqd5li0HXV

[les green01]

John Schnider did some youtube stuff way they do it first several times each person check make sure it unloaded 1873 sa means spinning the clinder and poping it out alex and them didn't do it next they look at the rounds guess what they didnt do that 1873 sa you got to thumb the hammer back only two ways it will go off if the hammer is resting on a round and gets hit or a hair trigger fbi check the weapon out no faults of the weapon so he did it and he should stop telling bs lies

[Jimbuna]

I handle firearms on a daily basis, this was no accident, it was an incident, and it was negligent on the part of both the onsite armorer and Baldwin.

The courts will decide.

[les green01]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwYvvTu-UYM&t=96s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sa5LIfNaKs&list=RDLVSwYvvTu-UYM&index=4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjpKAysj0JM&list=RDLVSwYvvTu-UYM&index=24

[mapuc]

My first experience with firearms was when I was around 8-10 years old and it was my uncle Who taught me important things like.

1. Always treat the gun/rifle as it was loaded.
2. Never point the gun/rifle at someone.
3. When checking for dirt in the (forgot the word) you look from behind-Where the thing use to sit(you have removed it to clean to see if this pipe is clean-By watching it from behind up against some light.

Markus

[les green01]

John Schneider explains everything in them videos hope you guys watches them.John Schneider been doing tv and movies since late 70's so he is a expert on sets and stuff but anyway you put it a bullet has no brains it is going hit where aim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx9VA8DqbpM&list=RDLVSwYvvTu-UYM&index=19

[Commander Wallace]

John Schnider did some youtube stuff way they do it first several times each person check make sure it unloaded 1873 sa means spinning the clinder and poping it out alex and them didn't do it next they look at the rounds guess what they didnt do that 1873 sa you got to thumb the hammer back only two ways it will go off if the hammer is resting on a round and gets hit or a hair trigger fbi check the weapon out no faults of the weapon so he did it and he should stop telling bs lies


I saw this John Schneider Youtube video as well. I completely agreed with his assessment as well.

[MaDef]

The courts will decide.the law is pretty clear on what constitutes "involuntary Manslaughter" and the rules governing the safe handling of firearms is also quite clear.
New Mexico's statute regarding manslaughter:

B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

4 rules of firearm handling:

1. Always Keep Firearm Pointed in a Safe direction. Never point your gun at
anything you do not intend to shoot.
2. Treat All Guns as Though They are Loaded.
3. Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger until You are Ready to Shoot.
4. Always Be Sure of Your Target and What's Beyond It.

The FBI tested the firearm in question and found no mechanical or material defects, nor could they get the weapon to fire without pulling the trigger.

Baldwin broke rules 1 and 3, and a woman died as a result, He's guilty as charged.

[Buddahaid]

the law is pretty clear on what constitutes "involuntary Manslaughter" and the rules governing the safe handling of firearms is also quite clear.
New Mexico's statute regarding manslaughter:

B. Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

4 rules of firearm handling:

1. Always Keep Firearm Pointed in a Safe direction. Never point your gun at
anything you do not intend to shoot.
2. Treat All Guns as Though They are Loaded.
3. Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger until You are Ready to Shoot.
4. Always Be Sure of Your Target and What's Beyond It.

The FBI tested the firearm in question and found no mechanical or material defects, nor could they get the weapon to fire without pulling the trigger.

Baldwin broke rules 1 and 3, and a woman died as a result, He's guilty as charged.

That's the way I see it. Given the ridiculous expense of producing movies today, it's hard to justify using a functional firearm anymore.

Now for the edit.
Actors are just that, actors. It's not expected for them to be experienced firearm owners with well drilled safety habits. In Star Trek, it was common for the actors to be firing their phaser practicals accidently, and you can see it get past the cutting room into final product at times. The question I have is did Baldwin know the prop gun was a functional firearm? "Cold" gun, or not, did he know? Was he expected to know it was a functional firearm because he was informed it was?

[les green01]

That's the way I see it. Given the ridiculous expense of producing movies today, it's hard to justify using a functional firearm anymore.

Now for the edit.
Actors are just that, actors. It's not expected for them to be experienced firearm owners with well drilled safety habits. In Star Trek, it was common for the actors to be firing their phaser practicals accidently, and you can see it get past the cutting room into final product at times. The question I have is did Baldwin know the prop gun was a functional firearm? "Cold" gun, or not, did he know? Was he expected to know it was a functional firearm because he was informed it was?

since the movie in question is a western i'll answer with western all westerns start to end uses real firearms the so call prop guns are made out of plastic or rubber and are use for throwing a firearm stuff like where you wouldn't damage the real deal.so let talk Duke last movie the shootest after Ron Hower shoots the bartender and throws the firearm that was a prop gun as the real pair was a presentation that was giving too Duke,josie wales real although they did use a rubber walker in one part of the movie,some movies they do use nra trainers,the movie gettyburg most of the guys in it are reenactors so during the shoot little round top where the camera is infront of the The 20th Maine Volunteer Infantry Regiment reenactors and they are firing just blackpower into the camera the crew is behind a prixyglass,they shouldnt been a live round anywhere around the set of rusk so much safety was thrown out of the window i'm surspise didn't happen sooner

[Platapus]

I hope this will result in significant changes on movie sets.


1. There is no need to use real guns. Fake guns can be manufactured that are identical in appearance to real guns. Also gun flashes and gun noises are always fixed in post. The only thing the actor/gun has to do is simulate the recoil and honestly when was the last movie that had actual recoils in it? Actors are paid a lot of money to.. well.. act as in making believe they are doing something.



2. There should never, and I mean never, be live ammunition on a movie set with the exception of security forces.



3. If there is recreational shooting on an outdoor set (a really bad idea) , the shooting needs to be done off set in another area. The recreational shooting range should have no overlap with the film set. The set needs to be cleared of all weapons and ammunition before it is opened to the filming crew/cast. That means everything is inventoried and locked up before work starts.



This is day one stuff, film crews.

[Rockstar]

I hope his stupid arse goes to jail. Drugs, alcohol could have been involved couple that with screwing around with firearms and someone will get shot and die. You do not need to be a firearms expert to know how dangerous they can be. All you need is just an ounce of common goddamn sense.

After his feeble lie that he never pulled the trigger who knows if his statement being told ‘cold gun’ is true.

[les green01]

Baldwin said he had pulled the hammer of the gun back as far as he could and released it but did not pull the trigger which is bs only way to lower the hammer is to squeeze the trigger and lower the hammer with your thumb so let take this a little farther a true replica of 1873 the firing pin is on the hammer so even if he had managed to lower the hammer without going off the pin is sitting on a round not going take much to set that round off

[MaDef]

That's the way I see it. Given the ridiculous expense of producing movies today, it's hard to justify using a functional firearm anymore.
A prop gun cannot give you the "realism" needed for firing a firearm. IE; loading, recoil, weapon cycling, spent casing extraction, etc.

Now for the edit.
Actors are just that, actors. It's not expected for them to be experienced firearm owners with well drilled safety habits. In Star Trek, it was common for the actors to be firing their phaser practicals accidently, and you can see it get past the cutting room into final product at times. The question I have is did Baldwin know the prop gun was a functional firearm? "Cold" gun, or not, did he know? Was he expected to know it was a functional firearm because he was informed it was?That is why an armorer or prop master is on set whenever firearms are present, they are responsible for the for securing the weapons, function testing, and ensuring the "actors" are handling the firearms in a safe manner, that includes safety briefings, and individual instruction if needed.

Case in point: for John Wick, Keanu Reeves learned to shoot 3gun and spent time shooting at ranges.

Granted not all actors are "trained" like Reeves was, but that's where the armorer comes in, they are the ultimate authority when it comes to the safe handling and use of firearms on a movie set. And they have set rules and procedures they are supposed to follow. In this case they weren't followed, because a woman is dead and she shouldn't be.

[Rockstar]

Baldwin said he had pulled the hammer of the gun back as far as he could and released it but did not pull the trigger which is bs only way to lower the hammer is to squeeze the trigger and lower the hammer with your thumb so let take this a little farther a true replica of 1873 the firing pin is on the hammer so even if he had managed to lower the hammer without going off the pin is sitting on a round not going take much to set that round off

You are correct the trigger must be pulled to lower the hammer. Not meaning to get side tracked, a real or true replica 1873 Colt single action allows the hammer to be lowered and locked just before touching the primer. Back in the Wild West days when people may have loaded all six rounds it was considered the safe position. But it was soon found not to be very reliable, these days most if not all carry only five bullets and lower the hammer on an empty cylinder.

Anyone in their right mind with an ounce of common sense would not have tried to operate it if they didn’t know what the hell they were doing. My opinion of him would be different too if he admitted responsibility for his actions which lead to an accidental shooting. Instead he‘s going down the road of the anti-gun crowd of blaming the gun and everyone else. He’s just an arrogant S.O.B. trying to weasel his way out of it.

[les green01]

You are correct the trigger must be pulled to lower the hammer. Not meaning to get side tracked, a real or true replica 1873 Colt single action allows the hammer to be lowered and locked just before touching the primer. Back in the Wild West days when people may have loaded all six rounds it was considered the safe position. But it was soon found not to be very reliable, these days most if not all carry only five bullets and lower the hammer on an empty cylinder.

Anyone in their right mind with an ounce of common sense would not have tried to operate it if they didn’t know what the hell they were doing. My opinion of him would be different too if he admitted responsibility for his actions which lead to an accidental shooting. Instead he‘s going down the road of the anti-gun crowd of blaming the gun and everyone else. He’s just an arrogant S.O.B. trying to weasel his way out of it.

well said a buddy once ask me when we was targeting shooting one of my 1873's why i still was putting 5 instead of 6 i bassic told him don't want to get in the habit of putting 6 in.sob even talking about finishing the movie i love a western i know for sure i won't watch it

[Commander Wallace]

I had made an error earlier in looking at this unfortunate shooting. I thought the weapon in question was a semi automatic handgun. It wasn't. It seems to be a single action revolver so the logic remains the same. The hammer would have to be intentionally cocked to fire a round. or a blow to the hammer with a round in the chamber aligned with the barrel in the cylinder while the weapon was pointed at Halyna Hutchins. It would be an incredible coincidence for all those things to happen in one place, all at the same time.

The F.B.I is supposed to have analyzed the gun used in the fatal shooting and found no anomalies with regards to malfunctions in the weapon. In short, It is impossible the weapon discharged itself as Baldwin has claimed. Further, as has been mentioned here, with advances in cinema productions, there is no reason at all to have real weapons that can fire real bullets let alone live ammunition on a movie set. Gunfire can be subbed in during production to replicate the sound of a gun going off.

It's incomprehensible that this level of stupidity or incompetence is present on a movie set.


It stands to reason, if Baldwin is lying and it seems he is, what is Baldwin trying to cover up ?

[Platapus]

Formal charges of involuntary manslaughter have been levied against Baldwin and Reed today.


It does not appear that the actual indictment has been published to the public at this time

[mapuc]

Formal charges of involuntary manslaughter have been levied against Baldwin and Reed today.


It does not appear that the actual indictment has been published to the public at this time

I know how you classify murder in three different degrees like Murder in first degree.

Manslaughter what degree is that ? 2nd degree murder ?

I can't get the word right. I hope you understand my question nevertheless.

Markus

[Platapus]

Great question.


When answering that question, as it pertains to the USA, it is important to properly identify the jurisdiction. Each state has their own legal definitions of murder and even though they may use the same name it can mean different things in different states. Also, our federal law may use different definitions from our state laws.


Since this took place in the state of New Mexico, we would consult NM Stat section 30-2-2 (2021) As an aside if you are researching crimes that occurred in the past, make sure you are researching the correct statute year too.



https://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexico/2021/chapter-30/article-2/section-30-2-3/


This is the statute that covers Manslaughter.



" Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection."

Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony.


It is also important to read the annotations of the law which discuss previous court decisions. These are used to clarify the meanings and interpretations of the elements of the crime, which can often seem ambiguous.



In the NM statutes there are a LOT of annotations. Some of the ones that may pertain to this case include


"Involuntary manslaughter statute excludes all cases of intentional killing, and includes only unintentional killings by acts unlawful, but not felonious, or lawful, but done in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection; the killing must be unintentional to constitute involuntary manslaughter, and, if it is intentional and not justifiable, it belongs in some one of the classes of unlawful homicide of a higher degree than involuntary manslaughter. State v. King, 1977-NMCA-042, 90 N.M. 377, 563 P.2d 1170, overruled on other grounds, State v. Reynolds, 1982-NMSC-091, 98 N.M. 527, 650 P.2d 811."


"Criminal negligence required for involuntary manslaughter by lawful act. — A killing by lawful act, to be involuntary manslaughter, depends on whether the lawful act was done in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection. The phrase "without due caution and circumspection" has been held to involve the concept of "criminal negligence," which concept includes conduct which is reckless, wanton or willful. State v. Grubbs, 1973-NMCA-096, 85 N.M. 365, 512 P.2d 693, overruled on other grounds, Santillanes v. State, 1993-NMSC-012, 115 N.M. 215, 849 P.2d 358; State v. Yarborough, 1995-NMCA-116, 120 N.M. 669, 905 P.2d 209."


"Negligent use of weapon. — A conviction of involuntary manslaughter by negligent use of a weapon requires negligence which is ordinary. State v. Grubbs, 1973-NMCA-096, 85 N.M. 365, 512 P.2d 693, overruled on other grounds, Santillanes v. State, 1993-NMSC-012, 115 N.M. 215, 849 P.2d 358; State v. Yarborough, 1995-NMCA-116, 120 N.M. 669, 905 P.2d 209."


Use of a weapon does not require proof of Criminal Negligence only "ordinary" negligence.



It gets complicated real fast.



I hope this helped. Please remember that different states will have different legal definitions. One really can't compare similar crimes across state lines.

[mapuc]

Thank you Platapus.

I didn't know there was different laws on manslaughter depending on which state it is.

I know this much it wasn't murder of first degree.
Found this on google

1st Degree – First degree manslaughter occurs when someone intends to injure someone severely. Instead of solely hurting them, the injuries cause death. 2nd Degree – Second degree manslaughter occurs when someone is acting recklessly and aware of their potentially fatal actions

Which mean he is accused of murder of 2nd degree.

Markus

[Buddahaid]

Thank you Platapus.

I didn't know there was different laws on manslaughter depending on which state it is.

I know this much it wasn't murder of first degree.
Found this on google



Which mean he is accused of murder of 2nd degree.

Markus

Manslaughter and murder are different types of crime.

[Jimbuna]

Manslaughter and murder are different types of crime.

Here in the UK it is the 'intent' that defines which one it is.

[mapuc]

Here in the UK it is the 'intent' that defines which one it is.

Same here in Denmark and Sweden

Markus

[MaDef]

Thank you Platapus.

I didn't know there was different laws on manslaughter depending on which state it is.

I know this much it wasn't murder of first degree.
Found this on google



Which mean he is accused of murder of 2nd degree.

Markus
Murder is the intentional killing of another, the "degree" of the act is largely dependent on circumstances surrounding the killing. (ie; reason, timing, planning etc.)
Manslaughter is the unintentional killing of another, again, the degree of manslaughter is dependent on the circumstances and manner of the killing.

[Aktungbby]

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/rust-alec-baldwin-twilight-zone-midnight-rider-the-crow-accidents-1235495663/ On the evening of July 23, 1982, “Animal House” director John Landis was filming a tricky nighttime helicopter scene for “Twilight Zone: The Movie.” The wide-open spaces of Indian Dunes, now part of Santa Clarita, Calif., were standing in for Vietnam, and the scene called for soldiers in a helicopter to pursue actor Vic Morrow, who was carrying two children. When the copter made a turn just above a large mortar round, the special effect explosive detonated, bringing down the helicopter and killing Morrow along with 7-year-old Myca Dinh Le and 6-year-old Renee Shin-Yi Chen.

The devastating accident shook Hollywood, and several months later, Variety announced that “Landis, pilot, others face ‘Twilight’ accident charges.” Landis and other “Twilight Zone” movie crew members were charged with involuntary manslaughter — the same charges “Rust” actor and producer Alec Baldwin and “Midnight Rider” director Randall Miller faced for their roles in on-set deaths...Fast forward four decades, and the response to negligence on sets had changed when the film business was rocked by the death of camera assistant Sarah Jones in a 2014 train accident on the Georgia set of Gregg Allman biopic “Midnight Rider.” Director Miller pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter, marking the first time a director was sent to prison for an on-set accident. Jones’ death resulted in a massive outcry, fueled by social media and online journalism, and led to vigils across the country and the Safety for Sarah effort to advocate for better working conditions on sets.

Miller served just over a year in jail and was forbidden to direct during his probation, which runs until 2025. :hmmm:

[Platapus]

Which mean he is accused of murder of 2nd degree.

Markus


No, Baldwin and Reed are being charged with Involuntary Manslaughter. Murder in the second degree is a different crime. The circumstances in the movie set shooting do not meet the criteria of Second Degree Murder.

[Rockstar]

I hear if he cooperates with the investigation he doesn’t have anything to worry about.

[Jimbuna]

Why shouldn't he cooperate with the investigation, he was there holding the gun when it went off?

[Aktungbby]

R U referring to "the smoking gun"?:doh:

[Platapus]

It will be a tough defense for Baldwin


I was holding a gun
I pointed it at someone
I operated the gun
The gun fired a bullet
A person died because of that bullet


But I have absolutely no liability in what happened. :nope:

[Rockstar]

You and I would think it’s going to be a tuff defense. But stranger things have happened, it’s quite possible his lawyers could go with the “Chewbacca Defense”

[Platapus]

It is entirely possible that he will walk


The one thing you can always tell about juries is that you can never tell about juries

[Jimbuna]

Weapons expert 'likely hungover' on set when Alec Baldwin shot dead cinematographer

The weapons supervisor on the film set where Alec Baldwin shot and killed a cinematographer has been accused of smoking and drinking in the evenings during filming.

Prosecutors claim Hannah Gutierrez-Reed was likely to have been hungover when she loaded a live bullet into the revolver the actor used when shooting a scene for Rust.

The accusations came on Friday in response to a motion filed last month by Gutierrez-Reed's lawyers that seeks to dismiss her involuntary manslaughter charge.

The prosecutors accused her of having a history of reckless conduct and argued that it would be in the public interest for her to "finally be held accountable".

Jason Bowles, Ms Gutierrez-Reed's lawyer, has said that the prosecution has mishandled the case.

"The case is so weak that they now have chosen to resort to character assassination claims about Hannah," Mr Bowles told The Associated Press. "The prosecution has abandoned the idea of doing justice and getting to the actual truth apparently."

A preliminary hearing for Ms Gutierrez-Reed is scheduled in August. A judge is expected to decide then if there's probable cause for the Ms Gutierrez-Reed's charge to move forward.

In the response, the prosecutors also noted that they expected to decide within the next 60 days whether to recharge Baldwin, depending on the results of an analysis of the gun and its broken sear. The items were sent to the state's independent expert for further testing.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/weapons-expert-likely-hungover-on-set-when-alec-baldwin-shot-dead-cinematographer/ar-AA1cwZIn?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=60bf092fee64495d83ca92bd4a0eead2&ei=54

[Moonlight]

Big film star gets away with manslaughter, meanwhile little piss ant nobody gets charged with manslaughter even though the gun was fired by Baldwin, am I ******* missing something here. :doh:

[Catfish]

If the latter accidentally loaded the gun with real bullets and gave it to a film star with little knowledge of arms you probably can't accuse Baldwin of intentional killing?

[em2nought]

So it turns out that it isn't President Trump who could shoot someone to death in Times Square and get away with it, it's the guy who "plays" President Trump on SNL who can. :hmmm:

https://www.billboard.com/wp-content/uploads/media/alec-baldwin-donald-trump-snl-skit-2016-billboard-1548.jpg

[Platapus]

...you probably can't accuse Baldwin of intentional killing?


I don't think anyone is accusing Baldwin of intentionally killing anyone.

[Skybird]

I don't think anyone is accusing Baldwin of intentionally killing anyone.
You never have played "Rust". :haha:

[Rockstar]

You and I would think it’s going to be a tuff defense. But stranger things have happened, it’s quite possible his lawyers could go with the “Chewbacca Defense”

And it's The Chewbacca Defense in for the win.

https://youtu.be/aV6NoNkDGsU

[em2nought]

And it's The Chewbacca Defense in for the win.

https://youtu.be/aV6NoNkDGsU

Judge wanted to give Chef the same sentence they'll want for President Trump. :har:

[Jimbuna]

You never have played "Rust". :haha:

:haha:

[Buddahaid]

Case dismissed with prejudice due to the prosecution withholding evidence. This is over.
https://youtu.be/OtPIQpbJ1pM?si=NnTfDB-IeMCdctvh

[em2nought]

Case dismissed with prejudice due to the prosecution withholding evidence. This is over.
https://youtu.be/OtPIQpbJ1pM?si=NnTfDB-IeMCdctvh

Just in time, they desperately need him back on SNL. :har:

[Gorpet]

In America, If the tribe says your guilty, Well your ass is cooked.

[Skybird]

I always saw this "case" as a comical farce. If he would have been sentenced, then thousands of film and stage actors who ever fired a weapon in a scene or tried to jab a pirate or kill a cowboy with bows and arrows or fought in a movie war would be guilty of attempted slaughter. Not to mention the camera crews who shot the movie. And the directors and script writers figuring out the murderous plans. And the movie companies financing the plots. In prison with them all!

Idiotic. But illustrating how wide the gap between abstract jurisdiction and practical everyday reality has become. That this was even possible to unfold until here, is an alarm signal - and not the first.


What was to be examined is why the cartridges where there and the role of the weapons ward. But if you cannot prove that Baldwin should have known it was live ammo he held in his hand, leave him alone. On a film set, you expect dummy weapons being held an another actor's head. To declare this act in itself a case of attempted or completed slaughter, is the perverting of reason and sanity. You must then ban all theatre playing and stage acting.



And no, I do not necessarily like Baldwin, I perceived him as quite arrogant before this all broke loose.

[Rockstar]

It wasn’t play toy or a stage prop it was a real honest to goodness firearm as defined by 18 USC § 921(a)(3). The one pulling the trigger is ultimately responsible for what if anything comes out the business end of it.

Doesn’t matter who handed you a gun. The number one rule of gun safety is to always assume the gun is loaded.

A technicality is what got Baldwin out of trouble with the law. Such is the benefit of the rich and famous I guess. hehe

[Skybird]

An actor is an actor, he pretends to be somebody else but he is not that somebody. I do not see him being responsible for the costumes and props. If one follows your logic, than nobody with a sane mind will volunteer to work as a stage or movie actor anymore.

Somebody was responsible, obviously, for causally causing that life ammo was on the set. It should not even have been there. Why was it, who allowed that to happen? That is the only question valid here. And wasn't the weapons ward there, wasn't it her job, to maintain the weapon and secure its safe loading with blanks...? If not, what else was her job then, if not this...?

And can an actor, who may never have studied for a gun license, even distinguish a blank cartridge from a hot one? He is handed a weapon for the scene and assumes - and must be allowed to assume! - that it is a theater weapon with blanks. OF COURSE! Because he is shooting a scene only, is not doing real life stuff.

This "case" made is absurd. Clear the causality behind why life ammo was even there and how it got into the weapon. Thats the real and th only case. Or does Baldwin privately own a live weapon and used this his own private weapon to shoot the scene...? Hardly.



Anyway, its over.

[Jimbuna]

The armourer may yet face another trial.

[Dowly]

A technicality is what got Baldwin out of trouble with the law. Such is the benefit of the rich and famous I guess. heheIt was a bit more than just "a technicality".

At some point, I think on day 2, the defence made it known that some of the evidence (ammunition) had been filed under different case # and no one had notified them about it. From there, the entirety of day 3 was spent on the motion to dismiss. At first a detective and a crime scene technician gave some excuses as to why it was filed under a different case #, even the judge started to ask questions from them.

The judge started to get more and more pissed off at the situation and eventually asked the detective who made the decision to use a different case #. To everyone's surprise, among other people, she also mentioned Morrissey - the lead prosecutor as having been a part in making that decision.

And then things went downhill fast... culminating in Morrissey voluntarily, without request, to take the witness stand to give her side of the story under oath. Of course, being now in the witness stand also opened her to questions from his competition. The defence attorney demolished her, asking about people who had resigned under her, whether she had called Baldwin names etc. etc.


EDIT: Oh, forgot to say that the ammunition in question likely wasn't even from the Rust set, so would have been useless for both sides. The prosecution sabotaged their own case for no reason.


Not that I think there was a case to begin with, I fully agree with Skybird on this. Baldwin was given a gun that passed through two people, both of whom should have checked it, but didn't.

[Platapus]

We do have the best judicial system money can buy.


It is good to be rich and a celebrity.


If riff-raff like I had done this, I would already be in jail.

[Aktungbby]

The prosecution's ineptness notwithstanding, Alec Baldwin, actor, is and should be free on the gunfire issue. As with actor Michael Massee firing an supposed blank shell loaded weapon with an unnoticed jammed previous shell in the middle of the barrel, killing Brandon Lee(son of Bruce Lee)in the filming of The Crow some 30 years ago, the responsibility rests soley with the armorer...not the actor. Massee was never held responsible. To the extent that Baldwin is also wearing the producer hat, he does bear the considerable fiduciary burden(lawsuits) and compensation to the victims: ie: the husband of the deceased cinematogapher has been made an executive producer on the film. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/20/1150034900/brandon-lee-killed-prop-gun-rust-shooting-death-alec-baldwin-halyna-hutchins https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/brandon-lee-the-crow-alec-baldwin-b2544339.html

[Gorpet]

It wasn’t play toy or a stage prop it was a real honest to goodness firearm as defined by 18 USC § 921(a)(3). The one pulling the trigger is ultimately responsible for what if anything comes out the business end of it.

Doesn’t matter who handed you a gun. The number one rule of gun safety is to always assume the gun is loaded.

A technicality is what got Baldwin out of trouble with the law. Such is the benefit of the rich and famous I guess. hehe

Ok,Let's do another real scenario.I'm an ac tech installing ductwork through the truss structure of a new house working below. At the same time roofers are laying plywood above and shooting it down with high powered nail guns.Now if one of those nails miss the truss and hit me in the head. It would be the guy who pulled the trigger of the nail gun, right ? Even though there were coridenators on that job site, Paid to make sure that didn't happen. So the roofer is now guilty of murder. :up:

The prosecution was found guilty of withholding and hiding evidence. Me my self i do not want to travel thru that county anytime.Fumbelinas rule !

[em2nought]

Ok,Let's do another real scenario.I'm an ac tech installing ductwork through the truss structure of a new house working below. At the same time roofers are laying plywood above and shooting it down with high powered nail guns.Now if one of those nails miss the truss and hit me in the head. It would be the guy who pulled the trigger of the nail gun, right ?

I wouldn't do that job while those dudes were up there. :03:

I wonder when Alec is gonna resume his "role" on SNL again? :D

[Skybird]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c897wykz2qpo

Very well, I think and I feel that he is right and has all right to do so. What they tried to get him charged for, appeared as hilarious to me from beginning on.


It was an accident, probably caused by negligence on the part of the armorer. They tried to frame Baldwin for manslaughter and turned it into an agenda “against the rich man”. Those responsible for this derailment of the law should be held accountable. It was an abuse of their position.

[Platapus]

I think this was a poor decision and will end up hurting him.


He already got away with it. Good to be rich enough for a good lawyer. He won. If he were smart, he would do nothing and wait for the public to forget about it.

[Skybird]

I dont predict how it will end, but morally and regarding his reputation and integrity and regarding the accountability of the persecutors it was the right thing to do. As I see it the prosecutors did not just fail to convince the court, but they actively corrupted their work and their work's results to push an agenda. In this I agree with Baldwin's charges, by my limited-in-range perception of the events and procedures, of course.

You must not accept to just get bend over and rammed into your rear end and afterwards you are being told to just be happy to have escaped and that you better stay put. A question of self respect, and probably also bitterness for the long time of fear for his freedom he was exposed to for - as I see it - never valid reasons.

It was fine and necessary and proper to have an investigation. That he was charged I never agreed with. The reasons and arguments - or shall I say: the foul excuses - given for that decision to charge him I always found utmost ridiculous and illogical.

I hope his case succeeds. And I do not even like the man.

[Gorpet]

I think this was a poor decision and will end up hurting him.


He already got away with it. Good to be rich enough for a good lawyer. He won. If he were smart, he would do nothing and wait for the public to forget about it.

What did he get away with ? Murder ? Do you really think, Alec Baldwin planned to kill this woman on a set where he knew cameras would be recording the entire scene. And there would be 20 or more people working and setting the scene up. And he is going to have a gun loaded with a live round so he can shoot her and kill her on purpose during the rehearsal of the scene.

And with all we know today, You think he got away with it.. Murder it has to be Murder right ? Cause nobody likes Alec Baldwin.

In 2007 his wayward 12 year old daughter wasn't getting her way with daddy so she and some adults recorded a private voicemail between him and her and released it to the public. And we have all heard that...And today because of it, Every parent assumes they will be recorded by their children. So it must be Nicey,nicey and don't forget your Pronouns.

Is Alec Baldwin a murder no. I don't believe so and after his social justice experience, I don't believe he will be voting Democrat in the future. Oh damn woke bit him in the a$$

[Raf1394]

Its a sad story for Alec Baldwin.
Would be interesting to know, how the court would be or the justice system 20 years ago.

[Gorpet]

Its a sad story for Alec Baldwin.
Would be interesting to know, how the court would be or the justice system 20 years ago.

20 yrs past.Who knows ? Find a judge in your hometown and ask them the next time you see them at the Costco. Sorry for the late reply, but Joey has got us working...Picking up anything anybody throws out on their side walk we can take to the scrap yard.