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Skybird
10-26-22, 03:27 PM
Today, 34 years ago on October 26th 1988, the tragedy at Ramstein AB took place, killing over 70 and injuring and traumatizing for the rest of their lives over 1000.

This is a German movie from 2022, no docu, but a movie closely following the facts and focussing on the victims. The facts are presented factually, the individual fates are touching. Very.


You will probably have to use a VPN to access the ARD Mediathek from outside Germany. I found the movie moving, unagitated, and fair.

https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/ramstein-das-durchstossene-herz/ramstein-das-durchstossene-herz/das-erste/Y3JpZDovL2Rhc2Vyc3RlLmRlL3JhbXN0ZWluLWRhcy1kdXJjaH N0b3NzZW5lLWhlcnovOTQ3MDdjNGEtZDgyZi00NjFlLTk1MjUt OThhZDUwZjEyYTA2


Just 30 years later the government of the federal state begged the victims for pardon for the chaotic rescue that killed more people than would have necessarily die, and for the three decades of trying to silence the rememberance of the events.

The US never has formally apologized to the victims for the failure of the base commander, or accepted its responsibility, and has always prevented that commander to be interrogated by German researchers. They blamed the Germans for the non-observance of the safety distance, and the German politicians blamed it further on the Italians, in order not to strain the relationship with the USA. There is evidence that the American base commander knew that the figure "Pierced Heart" would be flown and that the safety distance would not be respected. On the day of the accident, the safety zone was only 450-530 meters. It should have been at least 900 meters and more, according to the regulations and in view of the speeds flown, according to the contractual provisions. Most of the victims were killed by flying debris, and many of the victims died in the 450-900 meter zone, which should have been a safety zone but was not cleared by the Americans. Many fire victims were hastily moved away by American base personnel, following a motto from the Vietnam war, and taken outof the "hot zone" - although this is exactly what you are not supposed to do with fire victims. This also increased the death toll, and the "hot zone" was no hot zone anymore anyway. One can forgive the personnel for not having known this, after all most of them were soldiers and tehcncians, not medics or doctors. The failure of the base commander one cannot forgive. He knew the program that the Italians would fly (different to initial claims), and he did not care to safeguard that the security distance would be kept. As commander of the airbase, he is to be held acountable for security.


Until today, all flight shows with military aerobatic teams are banned in Germany. And that is good so.

mapuc
10-26-22, 05:35 PM
I can see it- I'm watching the first 5 minutes-Going to watch it later.

Markus

Rockstar
10-26-22, 08:22 PM
It was certainly a huge big foul up. The U.S. Airforce tends to get a little neurotic when it comes to controlling access to their airbases which store nuclear weapons.

Unfortunately we live our life thinking of the probabilities of something happening rather than preparing for the consequences in the off chance they do. No, apologies were not expressed but organizers around the world certainly learned lessons and applied them to future air shows.

My dad worked as crash and rescue at the AFB in Duluth, MN in the 60’s and we always had front row seats at air shows. Even as a little curtain climber I remember Voodoos screaming over the crowd, magnificent display. Nobody was thinking what’s the probability of it ever crashing into us? Thank god they didn’t because the results would have been similar to the Ramstein show.

Fortunately the smart ones are capable of learning from hard lessons as we trudge along in life.

Jimbuna
10-27-22, 06:04 AM
Lessons weren't heeded after the Farnborough Air Show in September 1952.

Skybird
10-27-22, 09:32 AM
There were quite some accidents and disasters at airshows like this. Worst beside Ramstein was Lemberg (Lwiw) on July 27th, 2002. A Su-27 suffered a stall from which the Ukrainian pilot could not recover. 86 people got killed, over 500 injured. There were no cleared safezones at all. The pilot and copilot were sentenced to years in prison, and have to pay huge compensations to the families of the victims (yes the pilots survived). The complete circumstances of the accident are not cleared in full until today. The pilot was an experienced member of the Ukrainian Eagles, their aerobatic squadron.

As much as I am fascinated by such airshows, I think it is utterly stupid to hold them. Nobody would conduct a life firing exercise with tank cannons and machine guns in a pedestrian zone during rush hour, telling people to stay in the house entries and stay off the free space while enjoying the show.

Have parties on bases, display stuff and have the kids sit in cockpits, young boys like to do that kind of thing. But stop throwing explosive equipment around, just meters away from the crowds and at speeds of several hundred miles per hour, that is just stupid, stupid, stupid. You do not carelessly provoke a tiger or a cobra when you sit in their cage. You should not challenge fate carelessly as well.

Sometimes you do not catch the bear, but the bear catches you. And for what, i ask you? For what...?

Jimbuna
10-27-22, 12:19 PM
What safety rules govern air shows in the UK?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34038649

Rockstar
10-30-22, 09:09 AM
Like I said: “the smart ones are capable of learning”. There is always going inherent risk of serious bodily injury or death involved at air shows. The only way to prevent them is to do what Germany did.